How to Retire Early and Financial Independence

In honor of Independence Day, I was inspired to record a Early Retirement / Financial Independence Podcast.

After listening to the show, you'll have a better idea of what you need to do in order to set yourself up for the ability to retire early and reach financial independence.

• What to Do in Order to Retire Early
  • Save, Like A lot
  • Live as a Minimalist
  • Debt Free (Should You Payoff Your Debt)
  • Investments
• What  You Should Watch Out for to Retire Early
  • The Easy Button
  • Inflation
  • Medical Expenses
  • Long-Term Care
  • Taxes
  • Recessions
  • Withdrawal Rates

Video Version

Referenced Episode: Early Retirement as a Working Parent w/ Kathy Haselmaier

You can read the written version by visiting the online strategy guide:
http://www.levelupfinancialplanning.com/how-to-retire-early-strategy-guide/

Music: 80s Motivational Chiptune by Shane Ivers - https://www.silvermansound.com

Transcript

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It's not easy, but it's it's a cool concept and a concept that a lot of people like to do play out and do make happening work, but you really have to be dedicated and have to be focused, you can't be flip-flop and like, oh, this is important to me this year, but then the next year, you're like, ah, I think retirement so far off. Maybe, maybe I'll take that money that I've been saving and investing and go go buy a Tesla, go buy a BMW, whatever it be. Like you're not going to make progress doing that. You have to stay focused, you have to stay accountable to yourself. This is techie personal finance bootcamp where I help tech professionals in their 20s and 30s balance a great life today without sacrificing their future possibilities. I'm your host, Lucas Casaris, certified financial planner and founder of Level Up Financial Planning, where I help educate, coach, and build strategies with my clients to help them take their financial confidence to the next level. Here's an important compliance disclosure. This podcast is for informational purposes only and are not to be considered recommendations. It is recommended you consult your trusted financial professional before implementing any information obtained from the Techie Personal Finance Bootcamp. Hello, welcome to Techie Personal Finance Bootcamp. Today I'm really excited. I'm going to be talking about a very popular topic I get all the time, and it's how to retire early. I actually wrote a strategy guide on this, so some of the information I'll give you is a little bit of an overlap there, but uh, this is me on the fly, so you'll definitely get some additional thoughts, different perspective than what I did when I was in that mindset about a year ago, right in my strategy guide. So without further ado, we'll dive in. And I think the the first thing that is very important to be aware of, and one of the things that actually prompted me to start this episode for retiring early is the thought of financial independence. And it's because the 4th of July was just the other day, and it made me realize that how important it is for people to become financially independent. And really, the the only way that you retire on your own terms is once you've reached that point of financial independence. So, really, what financial independence is is when you actually accumulate enough assets where your assets are gonna allow you to thrive during retirement, regardless of whether you have additional income flowing in from your typical wage, your typical earnings of having to go to work every day, having a clock in and doing those things. So that's a huge relief when a lot of people get there. And again, I I think another big difference is uh financial independence is really like a state of mind and it's a state of choice, where retiring early is a specific decision and it's an action. So retiring early, once you do it, you're basically pulling the parachute and you're kind of going into retirement. You might make some supplemental income, but really the thought is that you don't need that same income you were earning in order to enjoy your life through throughout the rest of retirement. Conversely, again, with financial independence, you really get to make that act of choice. If you're loving life, you're loving your job, your boss, all that situation looks great for you, then you may be more in line to just kind of continue working, uh continue padding the benefits. Uh, maybe it's something where you've each financial independence and really the additional assets that you're accruing that you're building up aren't really adding to your lifestyle either now or even in retirement because your lifestyle is already set. You're not planning on doing anything crazy or extravagant compared to what you're used to. And this actually goes back to my episode when I interviewed Kathy Hasselmeyer, and she said that basically they were working and they were realizing that it's not really benefiting them anymore. Like they as long as they still enjoyed their work, they were continuing to do so. But basically, they've reached a point where the additional assets they were building up wasn't really gonna increase their lifestyle in a meaningful way because they weren't actually gonna increase their lifestyle at that point. So it really is a decision, and once you get to that point, then maybe you'll get additional gratification, additional value and enjoyment out of life by being able to look at other causes that you can start to get back to in the form of maturity, in the forms of time. And and maybe there's uh family members or people that you know and need to. So it's really cool when you do get to that point and do decide to continue working because it just starts opening up these new pipelines of uh ways for you to put some awesomeness into the world and get back. If that's something that hits home with you, then that's a good good future to be able to have the access to once you reach financial independence and decide to keep working, keep uh either pet in that retirement. Maybe maybe you do want to have an awesome lifestyle, you want to kick it up a notch, take it to the next level during retirement, uh, go for it. You've earned it, right? You've built up these assets, you've done a lot of hard things, and we'll we'll dive into how hard it actually is to retire early. I think it's a really awesome, sexy thing to talk about. Like, oh, I'm I my goal is to retire early. But what we had to do is actually figure out what that actually means to you because a lot of times people retire and they're not happy because they never thought about what it looks like, what their life looks like in retirement. So that's a conversation that I have with clients as they're approaching retirement and starting to uh make those decisions. And you can tell right away the people that haven't thought about it yet, and they just kind of stare like uh daring headlights and and just thinking about the future is scary for them. But if you do start to more proactively think about what that daily life is gonna look like, like sure, you'll you'll go on trips, um, but you probably go on trips now. So what what's gonna make it all that much different is gonna be the things that you do on the day-to-day and that freedom of choice. And what I found at my previous firm, I had a lot of clients that actually did retire, and some of them struggled because it wasn't because of the income, they had plenty of assets, it was because they were just kind of freaked out. They they used to put their work and and they were so tied to their work that they were doing and to everything they did, and that was just so much a a part of who they considered themselves that separated from that, they didn't have a clear vision or a line of like activity to participate in to feel like they are a valuable uh part of a type of community or the household, whatever it be, uh people find all different sorts of things to create a positive impact and feel like they are a valuable resource. And so that's important is to think about what it actually means to you because just saying that I want to have a million dollars or retire early just isn't the same as actually visualizing that and feeling it and tasting it. If you're gonna be traveling and tasting exotic food, there's like so many ways you can dig in a lot deeper and make these goals more real so that they're more actionable for you, so that you can actually start to make some of the difficult decisions and trade-offs that we'll talk through here in a second. So, what do you need to do in order to retire early? At kind of a higher overview, I'll kind of just hit the bullet points and it you have to save, and not just save a little bit, you have to save like a lot of money. So uh save a ridiculous amount of money, we'll dive into that. Live as a minimalist. Uh, you're probably bordering on that type of lifestyle if trying to retire early is important to you, and I and and we'll we'll dive into that one. Uh, that's interesting to talk about because a lot of people don't think that way naturally, so it would be a lifestyle change. Be debt-free. So it's definitely something that gives you a little bit more financial freedom for sure, a little bit more of that feeling of financial independence, but uh we'll talk through why that may not always be a good case. And the last one is you have to have investments, and and so let's let's dive into all these things, just a quick bullet points on each one, just to make sure that you understand what they mean in the grand scheme of things. So, saving a lot of money. If you think about it, a lot of people struggle to save even that 3% that they need to get their employer match. So if you're doing 3%, you're probably doing better than a good chunk of people out there. If you're saving 3% for retirement, I can guarantee you you're not gonna even have a possibility of retiring early if that's all you're doing. Even going up to 10 or 15%, that's just more on average of what you need to in order to have a shot at retiring between 60 and 65. And you would have also needed to start relatively early as well. So if saving 10 or 15% when you factor in your employer matching in that free money that comes with that, if that's not gonna allow you to retire early, then how much do you need to save? And it's it's more than double digits, but you don't just get to 10% and say, Oh, I think I'm gonna be good. You probably want to be saving 20%. And the faster that you want to speed up that process, whether it be financial independence or just the ability to retire early, you may be looking a lot more like 40%, 50% of your income. And people that I I do know people do this, so you might be listening and thinking, like, that is impossible. And uh obviously, I think a lot of my listeners do come from the tech community. So uh if you are either early in your career or mid in your career, it's very possible for someone to make $150,000, $200,000. And probably all you need in order to have just a decent lifestyle would be $60 or $70,000. So when you think about that difference, that excess, like yeah, yeah, you could start saving 50 or 60% pretty easily once you're starting to make significant income. And so that's something to consider as well is as your income goes up, are you making that decision to spend it or are you saving that for some other goal or uh the ability to reach financial independence or retire early? So you have to save a lot of money. And so not everyone's up to that. They're they're all gung-ho about retiring early until they're like they hear that they have to save more than 10% or 15%, uh, then they're a little bit shocked. If that happens to be you, if you're all excited to be listening to this episode and you realize that you're not close to hitting that mile marker, don't worry because it's the the best way to make improvements is just to make those small, subtle kind of level up decisions where you're gradually increasing how much you're saving. And by doing so, one of the cool things that a lot of people don't realize is the more you save, it means that you're spending a lot less, which means in the future, when you retire, you're likely comfortable living off of less expenses. So that's why you can actually speed up the process pretty significantly, because not only you're reducing your current expenses, you're reducing the expenses that you're likely gonna need to spend to keep up with your normal lifestyle in retirement. So if you save $1,000 a month today before you retire, well, that's $1,000 that you're not gonna miss now when you retire. And you do that every single month uh for 30, 40 years of retirement. That's that's how people, once they start saving a significant portion, can really make this happen quickly. Sometimes it could happen five years, 10 years, and it's again, it's just how aggressive you are with that savings goal. So as you start to do that, then you're starting to creep maybe towards that minimalist lifestyle. So uh just doing the the bare necessities, as they say in the jungle book, is like you're happy with just doing the normal things. You don't need the upgrades, you don't need the replacements, you don't need uh some of the things that you see friends, family, coworkers, neighbors doing. And so that's that's really the biggest difference. And obviously, there's a spectrum, right? You could you can be like hardcore minimalists and get like the tiniest house or build your own house. I think that'd probably be a true minimalist, build your own tent or something out in the in the woods. But so there's a spectrum, and I don't consider my wife or myself minimalists because there are certainly things that we do end up spending a little bit of money on, things that we enjoy, like we're excited to go see the Lion King and Spider-Man this weekend at the outdoor movie theater. That's not looking like a minimalist for sure, but you can take a look at some of our decisions and how we put off spending or just totally ignore common things that a lot of people uh purchase. So you can find yourself anywhere on that spectrum. But as you move closer to that minimalist, that means you're saving a lot more, which means that you are not gonna need as much outflow during your retirement years. So being debt-free is also something that could be helpful, but you want to make sure that you don't rob from Peter to pay Paul. And what I mean is sometimes a lot of people will sell off their investments to pay off debt, and that's not always the best thing to do because what's investments are supposed to be doing for you long term is give you the ability to grow, and as your investments grow, they start to either kick out dividends or they start to grow in value themselves, and all these things kind of start to compound about around themselves. So as long as you're not taking the money out as those things are occurring, the money that grows the next year is actually based on a higher amount because of the growth that occurred the previous year. So if you take from that, you're taking away from a lot of growth opportunity. And so you want to balance that pretty closely when you're thinking about aggressively paying off debt. And obviously, if you have credit card debt and you're a double-digit debt, especially when you're getting 20%, like that's really expensive. And you you probably would be better off selling off some investments or assets in order to uh take care of that debt. But then make sure you don't just use it as a subsidy for your lifestyle, and then you end up racking up that same debt again because that happens a lot too. That's conversation. I'm really good at strategizing cool ways for people to reduce their debt, pay off their debt in a really efficient manner. But I always have to have a stern conversation with them to make sure that if we do this, you're not gonna just go right back to it, right? Because that would that that would make me feel bad. That would put you in a worse situation because now you have less assets and you just put yourself back into a horrible situation. So a few different ways you can kind of find yourself in that trouble. But if we're talking low interest debt, well, it may be worth a conversation of maybe just paying that off as schedule. So if you have a 30-year mortgage, 15-year mortgage, however much is left, mortgages tend to be a really low interest rate. So I'm not a big fan of paying that off unless there is just such a great value in doing so. And there's different ways you can get value. There's the savings and interest, there's the peace of mind, but there's also the grand scheme of things too, and in how things project out and whether or not you're better off financially sometimes means that you're not paying off the mortgage. We can even just put the money sometimes in a savings account instead of paying it off. That way it's there for you should an opportunity come up and you're not house poor because you poured all the money into your house and there's nothing liquid for you to either last through a recession or take advantage of opportunities that may pop up. So those are a lot of things that you have to do in order to retire early. And there's a lot of gotchas too. So sure there's gotchas with all those things we discussed, but there's a lot of other things too that a lot of people don't think about. So whether you're going about this as a do-it-yourself or on your own, you're not thinking about it. Also, there's there's a lot of popular blog posts and people out there that like to act like financial gurus, and sometimes, sometimes they're good. Sometimes they're not, though, because they only have one perspective, and that's their perspective. And just because something worked for them in a certain way doesn't mean that it's gonna work for your whole picture and kind of what you're trying to achieve. And so there's a lot of things that you should be aware of that a lot of times they don't share because they haven't thought about it. They're not, they haven't encountered that experience yet in their life to see it. And that's one of the things that I think is cool. I know I'm 32 now, but and so you think that's young for a financial advisor, financial planner, but I've been seeing people's intimate financial situations since I was 18 and graduated uh out of high school working at a bank. So I get to see unique perspectives and how people handle their money, and so it gives me a lot of valuable insight all the way through how people use their money from a banking perspective, but then I've also helped financial planning clients now. I think my oldest clients I've helped were like 86, 87, and my youngest clients have been 23. And then obviously, there's different things that I go and do in volunteer where I speak at schools and talk from that perspective too. So I've heard a lot of questions and I've seen a lot of things. So let's just dive into it. I know I went through that bullet pointed list before. We'll skip that, we'll just dive straight in. So, first thing, I think you probably got this from the initial introduction. This is not an easy thing to do. So, being able to retire early, there's a lot of things you have to sacrifice and and make those trade-off decisions. That that's the goal of yours. That's a high priority because of something that's really valuable to you and it's gonna make a big difference for you to be able to retire early. But there's no easy button. You definitely have to work super hard. It's not a quick process. So um, if you're if you're one of those cryptocurrency uh gurus or fanatics, like, no, no, don't don't risk it all to try to get a quick win. Because one of the things I'll just add in there really quick is things that come quick go quick as well. And the reason for that is if you think of anything that you've earned or worked your way up to do, it's it's really hard for you to waste those those things, those opportunities, that money, uh, the savings accounts. That's one of the interesting things about savings accounts is as you grow your emergency savings, it's painful to have that fall below. So even though there's something really exciting that you would like to spend money on, if it's not super press and it's not urgent, you're probably more likely to keep your emergency savings intact just because you're used to seeing that at a certain balance. So the reason why is because it took you a while to build up that balance. It wasn't easy, it's not like uh you received an inheritance, well, although some of you are listening may have and still may hold a lot of value to that, but uh it's not like you won the lottery, hit it big with Bitcoin, whatever cryptocurrency is hot at at the moment. And there's a lot of history and research on lottery winners, even that show that yeah, it's not it's not usually a good long-term success model to win the lottery. So obviously, there's people that are wise about it once it happens, but more times than not, they they squander it because they didn't actually earn it and and they just kind of freak out. So uh there's no easy button. You have to work hard, it's definitely not going to be a quick process, but I think that's part of the the value and the beauty of life or anywhere that you ever get at any point in time. It's it's accumulation of all the previous knowledge, experiences that you've earned and and kind of built up, and and you're doing it intentional too. It's not just because uh wealth was happening to you that you were uh just kind of being given money for no reason. Like you've earned things that you've earned, and so it's hard to waste it once you earn it. You can rely on luck, but the percentages are not in your favor. So yeah, I wouldn't be betting all on cryptocurrencies, I wouldn't be playing the lottery, especially if you are responsible for other people. Like that would be uh the scariest thing in the world, and I don't care how people feel that the future is gonna look for cryptocurrencies or any of those things, like you don't take super unnecessary risk when we have all the valuable assets that we need, which is the time uh to start early. We have access investments that typically were not easy to access, and so you can have a successful plan and strategy and and play it out and win the game by playing the long game and not try to take shortcuts. Taking shortcuts is where you start doing things the wrong way and then constantly never get in progress, never get inhead because you're sabotaging yourself, uh thinking that you're lucky. And and actually, speaking of luck, I actually just won uh a free gift card. It wasn't from gambling, it was a Facebook event for this new company that launched in Northern Colorado. That's a new alternative food delivery service for the Northern Colorado uh restaurants to kind of keep the money more in the system in Northern Colorado. So I commented to enter in for uh sweep's sakes and I ended up winning. So that was that was cool. I've always felt lucky, but I still prefer strategizing and and doing more calculated approaches to how I'm gonna achieve what I actually want. And sure, it was nice to get the $50, but I actually didn't waste anything other than helping them promote their stuff that I'm I would love to promote them anyways, uh even without that. And I always like and share their stuff anyway. So enough of that tangent. Another thing a lot of people just oh my goodness, they don't think about is inflation. So inflation is the gradual increase in the cost of practically everything. So what happens is the value of the dollar erodes every single year, usually, and so it usually happens at a pace of about 3%. So something that was worth $100 is now uh gonna be $103 the following year because of inflation. And so if you were sitting with $100 in your savings account, you're not able to buy the same amount of stuff that you were able to the year before. So that's what inflation is, that's why it's important to be aware of. And that's also why it's good to have investments that have a chance at outpacing inflation over long-term time horizons with investments that hopefully the investments, the value of those companies or property, however you choose that invest, is gonna grow faster than inflation. That's how you get ahead, that's how you build wealth. Medical expenses is another extremely high cost, and that's even without retiring early. So a lot of people do the traditional retirement where they wait till age 65, they qualify for Medicare, then they retire, then they're on Medicare. So that Helps for sure with some of the health insurance aspects, but it's still more costly because of all the different services and different things that you end up needing as your agent. So a lot of people don't factor that in that your medical costs are actually going to go pretty pretty significantly up, at least in a way that you want to measure and account for. And but let's look at it from the example of trying to retire early. So let's say I'm 32. If I want to retire at 45, I have to save a lot of money, like we we covered, I have to invest a lot and make sure I'm not doing anything too crazy debt-wise. But essentially, if I retired at 45, where am I gonna get health insurance? Health insurance is expensive. And even with that expensive health insurance, there's still really high deductibles and really high out of pockets. So it's a really expensive step to actually uh transition and retire early. I know a lot of people that have retired early and their health insurance costs more than their mortgage on their home and makes up like 30, 40% of what they're spending because they are not spending that much and that's how they're able to retire early. But it sinks for them and they get frustrated when they have to pay so much out of what they're living off of just straight for health insurance. So that's something to be aware of and and not not be fooled that uh you're ready to retire early because there's some additional costs with making that decision. Long-term care is another important factor. What I've found is it it actually matters more for people that have family, whether it's spouses or children, for single individuals, it's actually less of an issue. Uh long-term care is super expensive. If you know anyone in long-term care, if they need full-blown, round-the-clock care and uh kind of someone to keep an eye on them and maybe they're in a facility, that could be close to $80,000 to $100,000 a year. And sometimes when you have a long-term care need, it's it's not like you pass away instantly. Sometimes you're you're around for a while. So that that bleeds into your assets pretty heavily. And if you have a spouse or someone else that's relying on those resources, that's something to think about. There is long-term care insurance, it's relatively expensive. But again, you always want to strategize and view every opportunity to uh protect and then just make yourself aware too and make that a cognizant decision as far as how you want to approach that. And then what I found is a lot of my single uh individual clients are like, I'm never gonna get married and I'm never gonna have kids, and I could care less if I run out of money and then I'm in the streets, um, I'm probably gonna be too broken down. And I know that's probably not gonna be the case because I know a lot of people, just a lot of elderly people in general, rate really high for depression and loneliness and things like that. So that means that those things matter regardless of whether you have people around or not. And actually, it's probably worse off. Um, so uh even though you may think that in your mind and try to use that as an excuse to do something a little bit more risky than what you would if you had other people relying on you, definitely consider what your future old self would look like. I think I've used that in one of my podcasts before. Just imagine yourself old and gray, like being run down, you're still there in the head, uh, but there's just bodily functions that you're not able to do. And and if you're not able to get the best type of treatment and and just have a comfortable life as you're kind of finishing the later stages of your life, it's something to consider and think about at least. Another factor is taxes. So a lot of time when people reach retirement, a lot of their assets and investments are come in the form of retirement accounts. And those retirement accounts tend to be the traditional side because they those have been around the longest. Those that's where your employer matching money always goes. So that builds up sometimes faster than uh Roth accounts or just outside investments or brokerage accounts. So you have to pay taxes on all these things typically, unless it's a Roth account, then you never have to pay taxes on that. But the traditional uh accounts, any brokerage accounts, you may end up paying some form of tax kind of across the board. And so a lot of people don't think about that when they're thinking, like, oh, I hit a million dollars, that was my uh financial independence number, or whatever they want to call it. And then they retire, and then they're like, oh, there's all these things I didn't think about. And taxes, like it should be hard to forget taxes because you feel the pain and you see the pain every time uh you look at your pay stub, and then every year when you go to file tax, you're like, oh, they took that much. So it shouldn't come as a surprise that you're always gonna be taxed. Even your Social Security, when you qualify for that later in retirement, is eligible to be taxed. Um, and it depends on income at this point. Another thing that a lot of people don't like to talk about or think about is the possible recessions that would occur. And if you retire early, you're gonna experience more than one. You're probably gonna experience a handful of recessions over that time frame. So you really want to have a good understanding of how your investments are uh associated, because maybe you're not worried about losing your job because you're retired and and uh you weren't counting on income, but your investments may do some crazy things during a recession. So you want to make sure that you understand where that money is gonna come from if the worst case scenario is occurring in the stock market, and it's gonna be a couple years possibly for your investments to recover. So you just want to have a game plan before these things happen because if if you're out of the workforce for 10 years and all of a sudden you realize you're running out of money and you have to go back when you're in your 50s, people have a hard time now just being laid off one day in their 50s or early 60s, and then trying to find a new job like within that week, month, year, it's really hard. So imagine having a 10, 15 year gap, and then realizing like, ah, I gotta go back to work. So make sure that you are thinking about these things all the way through. Because again, I know it's easy to put yourself in the future just on the back burner, but you are gonna care at some point, and it's gonna matter, and you're gonna care when you have less flexibility and options to deal with it. Another thing that you should be aware of is just the withdrawal rates. So there's uh different withdrawal rates. A common one that people like to say for diversified investments would typically be about 4% a year, and so there's a couple of different ways you can forecast that and calculate those things. You can do 4% of the balance each year, and so every year you recalculate that. That will actually make your funds last a little bit longer potentially, because even if the market uh gets hit and your investments go down, you're taking 4% of a smaller number rather than the alternative where you just calculate that 4% right when you retire, and that's the same 4% you take, regardless of whether the investment's down or up. Um, and the nice thing about recalculating every year is if your investments do go up, then you actually get a little bit of a raise up. But then if it goes down, you're just gonna have to live a little bit less of a lifestyle than what you had planned for until things recover. So that's that's kind of how you can approach those withdrawal rates. And that 4%, definitely uh you want to run your own numbers and make sure that's gonna be sufficient for your situation. I just threw out a rule of thumb just to make the calculations a little bit easy for you and have you at least have an idea of what that would look like if you maybe you are thinking about early retirement, and this is something you're really excited about. So I want you to have all the information you need. And so those are all the things of what you need to do, what you need to be aware of. And so with that, it's not easy, but it it's a cool concept, and it's a concept that a lot of people actually do play out, do make happen and work, but you really have to be dedicated, you have to be focused, you can't be flip-flopping, like, oh, this is important to me this year, but then the next year, you're like, ah, that's retirement so far off. Maybe, maybe I'll take that money that I've been saving and investing and go go buy a Tesla, go buy a BMW, whatever it be. Like, you're not gonna make progress doing that. You you have to stay focused, you have to stay accountable to yourself and what your goals are. And it's not to mean that you can't change your goals, but then what happens is then you're like, ah, that was a dumb mistake. I shouldn't have done that. Like, I really want to retire early again. Well, now you're starting from ground zero or just uh starting from kind of further time back than where you would have been if you wouldn't have had those kind of lapses in your focus and and your goals. So reach out to me. Let me know what you're doing to retire early. Let me know what future conversations you want to hear. And if you want to hear an example of uh one of uh the people that have retired early, you can go back and listen to that Kathy Hasselmeyer interview. It was the work and parents one. So go and find that in the feed and give that a listen. I believe she retired around age 54. So that's pretty, pretty significant when most people are retiring 65, 67. And then sometimes there a lot of people are not even in shape to retire and they're just forced into retirement. So definitely I think financial independence is important. I think it's a uh a worthy goal to aim for. And it's just gonna take work, it's gonna take dedication, focus, clarity on what you actually need to do, factor in all these things. But you can do it and reach out to me if I can be of assistance. Thank you for listening to Techie Personal Finance Bootcamp. I invite you to reach out, review, let me know what you want to hear more of. Uh, if there's things you don't like, definitely reach out, let me know. I want to make this the best resource it can be for you. And just like you earn your kind of financial education and that foundation for you, that's essentially what I'm doing with that. I I would say I'm very well versed on the financial aspects, so that's not that much of a concern. But I kind of looked at a way that would do it and it's really meaningful for you to the point that to where you'll start sharing it with other people that you think that's really where I want to get this show. So, anyway you think I can put any specific questions, uh, feel free to reach out. I'm gonna be happy to incorporate that into future episodes. And everything I do, whether it's in my business or any of the additional content I produce, is really just to help people take their financial confidence to the next level and just really improve and just live a better quality of life. So, catch you next time on Techie Personal Finance Boot Camp.