Techie Personal Finance Bootcamp
I help tech employees use their finances to create the life of their dreams by helping you take your financial confidence to the next level!Are you a tech employee who wants to learn how to better manage your finances?Working in tech you may experience extreme pay increases, which may allow you the ability to accomplish goals you've only dreamed of. However, if mismanaged, you can also find yourself stressed out and under pressure to increase your income in order to fit your lifestyle.The good news, is through education and a little bit of determination, you have the power to control your future and create your best life.Not only will we cover basic personal finance concepts, but we'll dive deep into tech specific benefits and issues that I regularly help my clients build strategies to maximize. (Examples: working for start ups, restricted stock units, stock options, and layoffs) Also, on a regular basis, I will have special guests that will highlight their stories with unique stories about their tech experiences.
Techie Personal Finance Bootcamp
Building Confidence as a Bootcamp Graduate w/Stephanie Ogburn
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Before becoming a programmer, Stephanie Ogburn's first career was as a public radio journalist covering science and the environment.
Stephanie shares her experience making the career transition:
- Having a supporting spouse
- Diverse backgrounds In tech
- Women Who Code
- Challenges as a bootcamp graduate
- Building confidence to overcome impostor syndrome
- Finding her first Job
- Prepping for a bootcamp
- Avoiding student loan debt
Women Who Code (Official Site)
Women Who Code (Fort Collins Meetup)
Fee-Only Financial Planner Fort Collins
Music: 80s Motivational Chiptune by Shane Ivers - https://www.silvermansound.com
So like 15% is a very large complex.
SPEAKER_03So thank you for joining Psychi Personal Finance Bootcast. Today I have Stephanie Osburn with me, and she works as a developer in Fort Collins, Colorado, which is also where I'm located. Prior to starting her career in programming, she worked as a public radio journalist covering science and the environment. Hi Stephanie, thanks for coming on today.
SPEAKER_00Hey, how's it going?
SPEAKER_03Well, I just announced your bio, and it's interesting. So your your background is originally as a public radio journalist covering science and environment. So what made you first decide on that initial career choice?
SPEAKER_00Sure. I had always been interested in environmental science, and I really had a passion for the environment and kind of taking care of the earth that we live on. So I studied that in college, but I also always had a strong interest in communications as well. So I kind of I ended up uh doing a sort of double major in both of those areas. It was an interdisciplinary studies degree. And then when I went to graduate school for environmental science, again I kind of found myself drawn to communicating the issues around environmental science. So I ended up after my graduate school program starting work as a writer. And then from there I moved into public radio eventually and the whole time uh pretty much trying to cover science and environmental topics while I was working as a journalist.
SPEAKER_03Awesome. So were you kind of generating the script and like the material for the people that were going to be talking to, or were you actually on the radio as well?
SPEAKER_00Oh no, I was on on the radio as well. Everything is produced for public radio. There's not that much live coverage, you know, every once in a while, like the State of the Union or something. But generally it's produced. So you'd kind of uh have some story ideas and then set up some interviews, go out into the field and record your tape with uh various people you're interviewing, and then come back into the studio and produce it.
SPEAKER_03That's awesome. So yeah, it sounds like it was a lot of fun. What inspired you to make the career change? Because now you are a web developer.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I really enjoyed journalism a lot, but I came to the point in my career where I felt like there wasn't a lot of upward mobility, especially staying kind of in the interior part of the country. The bigger publications are generally on the coast, so like National Public Radio has a base in DC or in uh like just outside of Los Angeles, or even the bigger radio stations are mostly in kind of larger cities, and I enjoy kind of being in a smaller, smaller location closer to the mountains. Uh so it kind of ended up that I didn't feel like I wanted to move more for my career, and so I started thinking about what other careers that were could be interesting to me but allow me to live maybe not in a larger city. I had always been one of the more technical people, I would say, wherever I worked, uh just in terms of I had made my own websites when I was younger and wasn't necessarily afraid of the computer or doing a little scripting here and there. So uh now that there have been these boot camps that kind of started maybe five years ago or so, they provide an opportunity to go back to school, but for a much shorter period of time and for uh much less money than actually going back for you know a two or three year degree. So that was attractive to me. And then in Fort Collins there happened to be a boot camp uh locally. So that was also uh made it seem like the circumstances kind of all collided to make that seem like a good choice.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, well, and it sounds like good timing on your part because I know I know that particular boot camp is not located in Fort Collins anymore.
SPEAKER_00That's right. It uh closed its Fort Collins location. Now they just have locations in Denver and Boulder in Colorado.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, and I I so it's galvanize, right? Yeah, and so I follow them pretty closely. One of my my last guests was actually a graduate of the program as well, and really awesome and an inspiring story for him. If anyone's listening, they can go back and check that one out. But for like galvanize acquired hack reactors so like they're they've expanded pretty substantially, probably even in the last year, year and a half. So there's there's boot camps of all different kinds too, all all throughout the United States and a lot of online ones. What was it challenging to go through a boot camp? I've heard that they're they're pretty aggressive kind of curriculum to work through.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I would say it is uh challenging. I mean, it's basically the equivalent of a full-time job plus more, I would say. So it's something that you have to be able to set aside kind of the work that you're doing and take a break to focus on that. So it really is like going back to school full-time, I would say. Um and you're in class from usually about nine in the morning till five in the evening, and then doing uh the homework or the take-home work in the evenings as well, and pretty much working on the weekends too. So it's definitely uh a large, I guess, chunk of your time is taken up doing that. I was fortunate that my husband was really supportive, and so during that time he took on a lot more of like the household tasks that I might usually do or that we might usually share. And then during the summer, actually, when I was in school, we also had my stepdaughters living with us, and he took on a lot of the parenting responsibilities as well. So that was fortunate for me to have that support.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, well, and that's that's a huge thing in any kind of realm when when you have significant other spouses and and kind of family too that you need to take care of. Communication is a big part of that. How what was he just totally on board from the beginning, or was there a lot of exploring, a lot of convincing that kind of needed to happen uh in order to make those things move pretty smoothly once you were kind of uh committed in in the middle of it all?
SPEAKER_00Uh no, he was really supportive from the beginning, I'd say. Uh I mean he's just a really great guy. That's why I feel like together. But um also having listened to me feel kind of, I guess, stuck in my current job for a while in terms of not feeling like I could move up, he was very sympathetic to that and wanting me to be in a career where I did have more opportunity for growth. And it's it's I mean, it's very intense, but it's only six months. So it seemed like something that we could get through because there was a really defined beginning and end. I think that might be a little bit more of a challenge when doing something like an online boot camp. Some of them are more open-ended and flexible.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And so it might be harder because you're kind of doing it very piecemeal. I think that works for some people, but that would have been harder for me.
SPEAKER_03No, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And it just that's why even traditional school and online school is not for everyone because you have to be pretty disciplined, even if there is a thing that moves you through it, then yeah, you still have to be able to figure out and know when to ask questions. Where if you're sitting in class, you have all your resources right there to ask. And you have classmates, it's a lot easier to hold yourself accountable and keep moving forward where it's easy to put stuff off with those online ones. And some of those are self-paced too, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think they can be.
SPEAKER_03When you think about your your previous career and now your new career, is there anything that kind of holds over as far as skills that you were able to use in your previous journalist career and able to kind of transfer that over, or is it pretty different? You're using a totally different skill set.
SPEAKER_00I wouldn't say there are tons of transferable skills, but I think that the skills that I have as a journalist have helped me stand out as an employee in tech because a lot of people in tech don't have the skills that I have. So I am a good communicator, I'm a good writer, and those things kind of make me stand out a little bit, um, I think among the tech community overall. One thing that you do have to be good at as a journalist is learning new things quickly. And so I'd say that's more of a transferable skill because you're always learning new things in tech as well. Um, it's a little bit different though, because as a journalist, you're kind of learning everything at, I would say, a fairly superficial level, unless you're writing a book or something.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_00Um and in tech, you have to actually learn things a little more deeply to, I think, be successful. But it is a bit of a transferable skill there as well. But overall, I think it's the skills that I have from being a journalist that people in tech don't tend to have that are actually more beneficial to me.
SPEAKER_03That's a good call. I think that's why these boot camps are popping up too, is because a lot of these tech companies are hungry for a little bit more of that diversity aspect too, to like just diversity in background, diversity in skills. Because yeah, you bring something totally different to the table and it just kind of allows everyone to expand and and be better for it. You're probably a key piece of any team that you join because you have a different set of skills than them. And and that's what happens when you have these different boot camps where you can do a full-on career change and and bring some of those things from your previous career. I actually met you at an event and you were representing Women Who Code. Can you tell me a little bit more about that? Like what is it? Um, why did you get involved personally and how others can join?
SPEAKER_00Sure. So Women Who Code is an organization that's dedicated to keeping women in tech. So there are other organizations that are devoted to getting girls or getting women to enter into tech, and women who code kind of picks up where they those other organizations leave off. And so it's for women who are already in the tech field to find a supportive community to help keep them in the field and feel supported as they move throughout their career. Because there are a lot of women who start off in tech but end up dropping out, oftentimes kind of in their mid-career. And you know, there are a variety of reasons for that. But women who code is trying to provide a community of support to keep those women in tech.
SPEAKER_03That's awesome.
SPEAKER_00Um, and if and uh one thing about Women Who Code is that it's very distributed. So I believe the organization started in the Bay Area, like many tech organizations do. Um but there's chapters all over the country and even the world now. And so we have a chapter in Fort Collins, so people who are interested in kind of the northern Colorado area can find us on meetup.com, and we actually alternate our meetups between Loveland and Fort Collins to have a little bit more geographical appeal. And then if for people who are in other cities, oftentimes they can also access women who code through meetup.com as well. So I know there's women who code in Boulder, and then you know, Atlanta, Houston, all other, very many other cities in the United States, and then there's also some uh global chapters as well.
SPEAKER_03Awesome. So that's cool that there's all these kind of separate kind of silos where there can be a lot of things happening directly in the communities. Is there ever like a like an annual conference or like an annual like summit for Women Who Code, or is that not something that occurs currently?
SPEAKER_00Um yeah, they do have a lot of um kind of conference opportunities that they publicize through their website and their newsletter. I have not attended any of those yet, um, but I think it would be a really empowering experience if if London had the opportunity to do that. They also have a job board, which is really nice because it's companies that are focused on inclusivity and having a more uh diverse group of people work for them that post on that job board. So that's kind of a nice perk as well.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. And I imagine just even having that community in general. You've been in the industry now for is it three years, four years?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I'd say three years, I think.
SPEAKER_03Have you seen like any noticeable difference as far as in the tech community that's that women are starting to feel more empowered, that's they don't have to kind of phase out of the industry, like specifically why women who code was put in place to keep people in in the industry regardless of what's going on?
SPEAKER_00It's probably a little too short of a time for me to have noticed something like that. Um and there's also, I think, some structural issues behind why women end up leaving the workforce, not just tech. You know, a lot of women end up having children kind of at their mid-career age. And that's certainly a contributing factor of the fact that the United States is generally behind other developing countries in terms of the support it offers for women and families who are working. But I do think that there's a movement in the positive direction for trying to get women into technology and keep them in technology.
SPEAKER_03Perfect. So I I know you are in Virginia Beach right now, visiting family. So have you always lived in Virginia Beach or have you always lived in Fort Collins, which is where you're located now, or uh did you used to live somewhere else in the country and kind of what made you decide on Fort Collins?
SPEAKER_00Um I've lived in Colorado for about 15 years. I moved out to Colorado shortly after college. I went to college in South Carolina and just uh kind of I had come out to Colorado for an internship when I was in college and just kind of fell in love with it then and got back as soon as I could. Really, a lot of the time I have lived in Colorado, I actually spent living on the western slope. So I lived in the towns of Cortez and Paonia and Dolores. And then my husband uh and I came over here to the front range in 2013 um for his work. And we've been in Fort Collins since I believe 2015.
SPEAKER_03Cool. That's awesome. Yeah, I love Fort Collins. It's it's a great atmosphere, definitely gotten busier traffic-wise, but I think it's a great place to raise a family and just kind of be able to enjoy the mountains and and all the niceness too of having a a little bit bigger community for with the different restaurants and things like that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's really nice.
SPEAKER_03So when you kind of think about your career so far, what what do you think has been the biggest challenges for you?
SPEAKER_00I think overcoming imposter syndrome. Uh I think because of not attending a traditional CS degree in college, uh, there's kind of the feeling that maybe you don't quite fit in when you first start. And tech is a really challenging field. So there's a lot of times when I don't know the answer or no one knows the answer and you have to figure it out. So um I think that's been been a challenge. I think coming from a boot camp, probably the biggest challenge is just getting your first job. So once you get your first job or first internship after you've been there for six months or a year, I think every subsequent opportunity comes a little bit easier. I think people don't boot camps obviously are sort of in the business of getting people to attend them. And so they're not extremely forthcoming about the fact that when you graduate, you still know very little. But that's also the case with people who graduate from computer science programs. If you haven't worked in tech, you really don't know um very much at all, and sort of regardless of your background. And so getting through that first year or so is probably a big challenge for anyone graduating from boot camp or just starting out of college, really.
SPEAKER_03I think that applies to a lot of different careers too. I know the same thing was for like the financial planning. I went in actually for financial planning and I knew all this crazy book stuff, but then trying to apply that to like a couple sitting across from you and they're freaking out about the stock market, like, oh yeah, I learned a little bit about the stock market, and like I learned about how the the technical ways, how to like maximize things, but I didn't learn how to communicate with people and make sure that they're they're able to understand what uh I know and make sure that they're comfortable and all those things. So that did take time to kind of use it in a real real world application. And I imagine it's the same thing for for the boot camps and a lot of things like you it's easy when stuff is structured and you're able to know what what the the question is and there has to be an answer, right? And then it's it's very cut and dry most of the time. But once you get in the real world, there's like ah, there's all this gray area, and it's like trial, trial and error, and yeah, feeling a lot like an imposter for a while until until you start to build up a couple of wins in your arsenal. Has there been moments, or was it just really those kind of next next uh positions that you were receiving that actually empowered you and it made you feel more confident about being a little bit less of an imposter?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, I think that it's kind of like a continuous journey. So um there's some graphs on the internet that sort of show like the cycles of being a developer, and you can sort of start out feeling it like you don't know anything, you quickly learn a lot, but then you fall back down and think, oh, I actually don't know anything because you get to the point where you know enough to know how little you know. And then you climb back up again. And so I sort of view uh the career I'm on right now as kind of a journey through those cycles of feeling like you're uh quite knowledgeable, and then oh, maybe you switch to a new company and there's a new programming language and a new framework and a new way of doing things, and you kind of almost feel like you start start over again. Every time I think is a little bit easier because you there are definitely kind of transferable patterns and ways of thinking about things and problem solving. But it's kind of it's I don't think that people I guess most people who are maybe sensitive about their skill their skill level are kind of paying attention to where they think they are and continually strictly trying to improve. I think that most of those people don't ever feel like they have learned what they need to know. There's always something new.
SPEAKER_03That's awesome. And so when you're thinking about go back in time and think about how you felt when you were just starting to apply for that first job, what was that process like for you?
SPEAKER_00I ended up practicing trying to practice uh some algorithms. That's something that you know is common in interviews. I I disagree with that approach. I think I hardly ever use algorithms in my day-to-day life. So it kind of makes interviews feel like a more of a test than like a true assessment of how well you'll do in a position. Um, but it's very common in technical interviews to have that. So it's something to practice. Um there are different places you can look if you are trying to find like a junior position um versus other positions. So I ended up Kind of networking as much as I could just because for my first position I would prefer to work in a little bit more of a supportive environment. So I started out with an internship at Radial Development Group, which is a company in Loveland. And it's a small company and they're very supportive of new developers and they do great work. So it's a great place to learn, you know, how to be a good programmer as well. So that was a good fit for me. I think sometimes larger companies are a nice place to start as a junior developer because they might have more of an identified training program and more of a willingness to train kind of up-and-coming developers. But it's really variable. My recommendation would just be to do as much research as you can on the companies that you're applying for to see if they're a good fit for kind of like your learning style and the level that you're coming in at.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and so you mentioned networking. Is that how you got that first position at Radiol for the internship?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, I would say they sort of networked to me in a way because they came over to galvanize and were offering some mentorship opportunities. And so that's how I encountered them. And I actually, prior to working at Radio, I had started a position down in Denver, but fairly quickly realized that wasn't a very good fit for me. And so then I went over to at that time, radio had some opportunities for an internship. So I went over there. And I ended up getting hired and working there for probably about a year.
SPEAKER_03Cool. And so what do you think that the biggest challenges are for people as they like let's say someone's listening and they want to know what the biggest challenge is for going to that boot camp and and going through that six-month trial?
SPEAKER_00I mean, it's a huge challenge to give up six months of income. Um, because at least you're not working. So I think that's that's a big challenge. And I would say that after that, you're still just at the beginning of your career shift. So like finishing a boot camp is a very large accomplishment, but that's kind of just like the beginning of your climb up the mountain, you know. It's like that was like you going out and buying your tent. And you still have to go go up to the top or you know, start start your journey in your new career. So yeah, I think I mean there there are many challenges. It kind of depends on what your personal circumstances are as to what the biggest ones were. But yeah, for me personally, um, I don't really enjoy school. I I like to learn, but sch I find school very stressful uh because I feel like I always have to do well and get good grades. And so for me, it was the stress of kind of being back in school was really challenging.
SPEAKER_03Sure. Yep, I know that's kind of how I am. I always wanted to be like the best I was competitive with school or anything, and yeah, it just stress that doesn't really matter because in a lot a lot of times it doesn't matter, like at least in the traditional schooling format, if you've got a C or an A, none of that stuff matters to your future employers for the most part. And so, yeah, it's a lot of stress, and I don't know, it's school, the schooling system hopefully will be changing as a result of boot camps and a couple of other different uh resources, just all the online resources that are available. So I'm looking forward to seeing the student loan debt kind of decreasing as some of these other alternatives are opening up the trade. So, like even just becoming like a plumber or electrician, like those people have been kind of hidden in the background too, but they actually make a decent money even just starting out. And a lot of people just aren't aware that these different careers existed. How did you find out that like galvanize existed, that boot camps existed? How did you realize that that was an option?
SPEAKER_00That's a good question. I think probably just by doing research into professions, because I was, you know, I was in my profession and I are I do have a master's degree, and I was really uninterested in going back to school for two or more years. Like it's expensive. It's that's two or more years that you're not making money, you're paying out money. And so I guess you better hope that your outcome puts you in a lot better position to recoup those two years of lost income and expenses as well. So I think just through Googling like alternatives to that, and I I was looking at like community college programs as well, just to see if there's anything I was interested in, because I just really didn't want to go back to uh school for a long time. So yeah, I think probably just through the internet is kind of and Gal I guess thing it's kind of lucky that galvanize had started up in Denver, and so there's kind of a buzz around that, I think, at that time as well.
SPEAKER_03Nice. Yeah, I think those types of things, all these different alternatives are just under the radar a lot of times. So that's awesome that you were able to find it, and it sounds like you were actively reaching out and looking for those opportunities too. How easy was it to like make that huge shift?
SPEAKER_00Well, you have to apply and you have to do some like practice work before you can apply, really, because they make you solve some coding problems.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00Um, even in your application. So I had to kind of on my spare time uh take some courses and online courses, maybe I'd say like 25 hours worth of courses to kind of get to the point where I could see that the tests that they were gonna give to get in.
SPEAKER_03That takes a lot of commitment to to do that just to get into the process.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um, it does help though, because then you have a little bit more background for when you start. I think the more background you can have, the better you'll do. The most successful person in my class was someone who had already worked as a programmer, or there's another fellow who actually was a computer science student. And they were by far the most successful people in our class because they had some background already and it just built upon their existing knowledge. So, like the more you can do, and it also helps you know if you like doing it, you know.
SPEAKER_01Sure.
SPEAKER_00Um so I think that's and it's all the courses online that I took were free. Um, so there's just a lot of resources, and really the only investment at that point is your time. And so doing a few hours every night for like a couple months just to see to get yourself up to speed and to see if you like that, I think is probably a good option before you, you know, plunk down fifteen or twenty thousand dollars in six months of your time.
SPEAKER_03So once once you submitted that and you were accepted, was it just like a a no-brainer at that point that you were like, yep, um, I'm doing this for sure. No looking back at like all in type approach?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think so. I mean, I had been kind of tired of what I was doing for maybe close to a year, uh, ready for something new. So I was I was on board with once I got in.
SPEAKER_03Awesome. So we'll be kind of asking the last question before we close out the show. So since this podcast is like a hybrid and it's part financial, what would you say is that the best financial decision that you've ever made? And it doesn't have to be like a big financial decision, it could be a small thing as well.
SPEAKER_00Mm-hmm. I sort of have two. Um I'd say the number one is not going into debt to go to college. So I uh did well in high school, and so I was able to get a scholarship to college. But I think even if you're not in that position, like you can always go to community college first. But the result of not having college debt means that I've been able to make a lot of decisions in my life to try new things or go down new pathways or move to new places without like this debt hanging over my head that I have to pay every month, I have to have this job. So it's definitely given me a lot of freedom in kind of shaping the direction of my life. So I think that's like the best financial decision I've made. And I would can't take credit for it. My parents like kind of drilled it into me to not go into debt, I'd say. So you know, when you're 18, it's hard to make those decisions yourself.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Well, you're super young when you're getting all those good grades, but it's it's not easy to be like top of your class and not be able to get those scholarships. And I just mentioned a little while ago that usually the the grades don't matter, but this is one situation where it definitely does matter um if you're able to get like a free ride, and not free ride, but like uh an earned ride based off of your kind of previous accomplishment.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, that's yeah, but we have a daughter as well that is is not in that same situation, but we're also encouraging her to not go into debt for college through doing a community college first, you know. So I think I think there's ways around it even if you're not the most successful high school student. But I would say that's like a very good, that was like a huge decision that's kind of set me up for being more flexible later in life. And then I would say going back to school for the boot camp has um so far been like a huge financial positive just because my earnings have uh probably increased by like 50% being in technology versus being in journalism. And not that I was starving when I was in journalism, but I it's just a huge difference. It's very noticeable. Um so that's also a really positive financial decision.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's a nice bonus on top of it being something that's you've been enjoying. And so yeah, I tell a lot of people that you don't want to do these things just strictly for the money. Like the money is nice, but you can make nice money doing a lot of other things as well. So having it be something that you can enjoy and think is a positive kind of influence on your life is the biggest thing. And then the financial matters will shake out, but it is a nice bonus to have more flexibility to do those things that you want to do.
SPEAKER_00For sure. Or maybe retire early.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, it gives you it gives you a lot more flexibility for sure. So with that, I know probably that the main reason why people may want to get in contact with you potentially would be to find out more on Women Who Code, or um, if they're in the the northern Colorado region, they might want to check out um that meetup. Can you just kind of share that information one more time and then I'll make sure that I also add it into the show notes for listeners?
SPEAKER_00Sure. So Women Who Code is an organization that's aimed at supporting women who are in technology. And we have a meetup that meets every month on the second Thursday of the month, usually, and we alternate between Loveland and Fort Collins. And the best way to find out what we have going on is to just go to meetup.com and search for women who code.
SPEAKER_03Awesome. And so one thing that I always have a question about, and and like sometimes you guys have like really great topics that would apply to me, even though I'm totally not a coder and I'm not a woman. Are males able to go to these events as well? How can males help support this uh movement as well?
SPEAKER_00Sure, yeah, we are open to all genders as long as you're uh in agreement in supporting the mission of Women Who Code, which is keeping women in technology. Um, so we're all open to people of all skill levels and people of all gender identities. Um, and we do try to alternate between technical topics and kind of more general uh topics about being in technology. So we have uh kind of a set of accessible options for people who are at a wide range of skill skill levels and interests.
SPEAKER_03Perfect. Yeah, and and I've definitely seen it because it's always on meetup, you can go ahead and like join groups. And so I've been in the group for a long time. I was like, oh, that sounds cool. I was like, ah, I'll feel weird though. Like if I'm like the only person there, I'm not not technically uh a coder, and and yeah, like if if it's all women, are they gonna think like I'm I'm weird for being there? So I I appreciate you sharing that, that it's all totally inclusive for everyone and anyone. And I'll have to make a point to to come and make one of those meetups one of these times.
SPEAKER_00Sure. That'd be great.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, thanks for coming on the show today, Stephanie. I really appreciate it. And I know that my listeners are gonna have a great time listening.
SPEAKER_00Well, thanks for the interview. It was it was a pleasure to talk.
SPEAKER_02Thank you for listening to Psycho Personal Finance Boot Camp. Remember to like what you can subscribe, review, and share with your friends and colleagues.