WEBVTT 00:00:00.390 --> 00:00:03.359 I talk a lot about home cause I'm, I'm from Mexico. 00:00:03.870 --> 00:00:04.950 Oy! I hate when I say like that, it makes me sad. 00:00:05.969 --> 00:00:06.209 Mexico. 00:00:09.650 --> 00:00:18.719 [Laughter] And uh, and it was, I was, uh, on that piece I talked in Spanglish and I talked about my parents mostly. 00:00:19.079 --> 00:00:23.789 And I talked about the lies I told to them since I moved here, which there are a lot. 00:00:24.589 --> 00:00:27.149 Uh, but then I also mentioned something that I, it really stuck to me. 00:00:27.269 --> 00:00:30.839 It's like I don't miss home at all, but also- what's home? 00:00:30.841 --> 00:00:47.310 Because now this feels like home and what I have here and the chosen family I have here, it's way- not better because it's a certain type of family environment in Mexico, but here I created the thing that makes me feel safe. 00:00:47.789 --> 00:00:50.729 So it feels more like home. 00:00:51.840 --> 00:00:57.990 But it's- yesterday, some friends from Mexico are visiting right now and one of them was asking me like,"Don't you miss it? 00:00:57.990 --> 00:00:59.429 I couldn't be apart from my family. 00:00:59.430 --> 00:01:02.579 I couldn't be apart- don't you miss your family?" And I didn't even think about it, I say"no". 00:01:03.000 --> 00:01:14.730 And then I was like,"Oh, no, I'm a horrible, horrible human." And I was like, but it's different because distance can really help you or fuck you in a way because I don't see them. 00:01:14.730 --> 00:01:18.390 So I don't think about them that much. 00:01:18.989 --> 00:01:19.799 So I don't know. 00:01:19.801 --> 00:01:26.930 This year, this is the first year I'm not going to Mexico for Christmas and I'm sad, but I'm also relieved. 00:01:27.569 --> 00:01:29.579 So it's a lot of conflict right now. 00:01:29.969 --> 00:01:33.840 But it's this thing of I don't know, I've been- and I put it out the group. 00:01:33.840 --> 00:01:43.170 It's like when does it- does time make home a thing or is it an experience, or like what does home, like what encompasses a home? 00:01:43.560 --> 00:01:45.959 That's my mostly biggest question right now. 00:02:01.310 --> 00:02:04.969 Hi, my name is Vanessa Dunn and welcome to the youth elders podcast. 00:02:06.019 --> 00:02:08.150 Today's episode revolves around the idea of home. 00:02:09.199 --> 00:02:12.080 You know, we make a lot of assumptions when we reference home. 00:02:12.770 --> 00:02:16.610 It's shorthand, it's simple, it's something we should know and recognize immediately. 00:02:17.449 --> 00:02:19.819 It's family, it's our family of origin. 00:02:19.820 --> 00:02:23.479 It's the people who should love us and in turn, whom we should love unconditionally. 00:02:24.319 --> 00:02:25.849 It's cultural, it's who we are. 00:02:25.939 --> 00:02:27.650 It's tradition, it's roots. 00:02:28.189 --> 00:02:29.120 It's something that fits. 00:02:29.121 --> 00:02:31.159 It's something we can embody and represent properly. 00:02:32.210 --> 00:02:32.930 It's located. 00:02:33.229 --> 00:02:35.900 You always know where it is safe. 00:02:36.680 --> 00:02:38.870 We feel safe at home, right? 00:02:40.250 --> 00:02:52.490 Well, today's podcast shifts those assumptions and unpacks the word home from the perspective of queers, many of whom are newcomers, trauma survivors, and come from culturally and racially diverse backgrounds. 00:02:53.539 --> 00:03:02.500 Today's introduction and part one of our podcast is from the November 17th live recording session, entitled, Home is where the Homo is: Explorations of home. 00:03:03.490 --> 00:03:06.819 Now, episode three of The Youth/ Elders Podcast. 00:03:14.460 --> 00:03:19.050 I came here when I was 16 and I felt I lost my home. 00:03:19.680 --> 00:03:35.189 I lost Trinidad, I lost my culture, I lost everything that was me and I didn't get it back, really, I realize now until this year when I went back and I felt I was home. 00:03:35.960 --> 00:03:39.659 And when you're talking about what makes home, so for me, it's my culture. 00:03:40.650 --> 00:03:50.280 And even though I live here and I call, um, Toronto home, it's a place where I live. 00:03:50.909 --> 00:03:54.539 It's not home because my culture is my home. 00:03:54.540 --> 00:03:57.719 So I've had to do that to keep me sane. 00:03:58.219 --> 00:04:01.409 Otherwise, I would not have been able to survive here. 00:04:01.411 --> 00:04:12.150 So it's creating culture with people who have like minded, you know, understanding of what it means to be a Trini or somebody from the Caribbean or who is West Indian. 00:04:12.180 --> 00:04:14.969 For me now, that's home, yeah. 00:04:16.259 --> 00:04:18.300 Has that changed from when you were younger? 00:04:18.300 --> 00:04:19.079 Like you? 00:04:19.860 --> 00:04:22.800 Yeah, cause I didn't realize that's what I was missing. 00:04:23.410 --> 00:04:32.519 And when I went back in February, I thought I could live in Trinidad, but it really wasn't- the country wasn't home anymore, but the culture was home. 00:04:35.370 --> 00:04:48.399 I can speak on the flip side to that, being a Caribbean person who was born in Canada, having the Caribbean culture as, as my home as my default, as like my, um, you know, cultural knowledge and stuff like that. 00:04:49.149 --> 00:04:55.750 But um, being born in Canada just means that you are not indigenous to this land. 00:04:56.019 --> 00:04:59.649 But then when you go back to what you're supposed to be, what's supposed to be home. 00:04:59.651 --> 00:05:03.550 So your parents' ancestry for me would be either Jamaica or Antiga. 00:05:04.360 --> 00:05:07.389 That wouldn't be a home either because you were born in Canada and they'll see you as a foreigner. 00:05:07.391 --> 00:05:09.529 Let's see you as a, as a Canadian person. 00:05:10.540 --> 00:05:18.850 Um, but even being a Caribbean person means that you're also displaced from Africa, um, through the transatlantic slave trade. 00:05:19.149 --> 00:05:23.889 So you lost those cultural connections to what is his home, your base, your roots. 00:05:24.459 --> 00:05:32.110 Um, you know, so even when you go back to Africa or like any African countries, you don't know where you're supposed to be. 00:05:32.110 --> 00:05:36.819 You don't know what a home is, you don't know, um, I guess, where your roots are. 00:05:37.220 --> 00:05:59.300 So uh, so African people or people you know, in different African countries will see you as a Caribbean person and the Caribbeans will see you as Canadian, but you don't really feel Canadian because you're black and you, um, you know, are always hyphenated and you're not really part of this, of the, um, social Canadian like fabric because you're not, um, I guess part of the colonial fabric. 00:05:59.360 --> 00:06:02.560 But when you're not an indigenous person to kind of this, so. 00:06:04.240 --> 00:06:06.670 I couldn't really relate to that, part of that experience. 00:06:07.209 --> 00:06:14.889 Um, like I mentioned, I was born in Bangladesh and I lived there till I was 11 and then my family started moving around for my dad's job. 00:06:14.891 --> 00:06:21.339 So I lived in a bunch of different places from like Ethiopia, Sudan, Thailand, India, US throughout my teens. 00:06:21.341 --> 00:06:23.769 And then came to Canada when I was 17 for university. 00:06:23.920 --> 00:06:31.089 So I've been here 12 years now and I still don't call Canada or Toronto home because I don't know what that means. 00:06:31.300 --> 00:06:34.990 It felt like at 11 I was uprooted and I moved around a lot. 00:06:35.410 --> 00:06:44.620 And because I moved so much, I was always scared to put roots down because I was like, well, we know that I'm going to go to a new high school next year so there's no point, like settling. 00:06:45.399 --> 00:06:49.660 But I've been here 12 years now and I have moments where I'm like, this should be home. 00:06:49.689 --> 00:06:52.959 This should feel like, like what do you define it by? 00:06:53.069 --> 00:06:55.089 If 12 years isn't enough time, what is? 00:06:56.079 --> 00:07:11.259 Um, but speaking to what you were saying, that experience of like when I go back to Bangladesh to visit my cousins, they are talking about like,"Oh, this new shari is out, dah, dah, dah." And I'm like, I understand the words that are coming out of your mouth, but you are speaking a different language. 00:07:11.350 --> 00:07:14.560 I don't understand the context. 00:07:14.829 --> 00:07:26.170 But at the same time, there's so many places here, like, again I've lived here 12 years and I still walk into rooms where I'm like, I'm the other, I feel like an alien because I just don't feel like- I don't fit into either culture. 00:07:27.370 --> 00:07:30.970 Um, and that's tricky to say the least. 00:07:31.319 --> 00:07:36.269 When I go back now, I open my mouth and the first thing they say to me is,"Oh, you're foreign. 00:07:36.269 --> 00:07:41.939 That's it, you're foreign." So you have no right anymore to your home. 00:07:42.519 --> 00:07:42.519 So. 00:07:42.870 --> 00:07:48.600 Since that keeps happening to me, I have created my own little Trini home here. 00:07:49.350 --> 00:07:49.800 Yeah. 00:07:50.220 --> 00:07:54.089 But it's that- there's always that little connection, you just know. 00:07:55.810 --> 00:07:56.170 Yeah. 00:07:56.519 --> 00:07:57.769 And that means so much. 00:07:57.970 --> 00:08:01.170 And for me anyway in my heart that there's that little belonging. 00:08:02.180 --> 00:08:02.529 Yeah. 00:08:02.939 --> 00:08:03.839 Like identity. 00:08:03.841 --> 00:08:07.319 We don't realize how early it starts to form in us. 00:08:08.160 --> 00:08:17.250 And I'm, I'm sitting in listening to these tables going, you know, I'm, I'm a trauma survivor, so we- alcoholic father, we moved all the time. 00:08:17.839 --> 00:08:24.930 Uh, no connection to my grandparents, no connections to aunt and uncles, no, no school longer than two years. 00:08:26.129 --> 00:08:35.340 Um, so at no point, so I, you know, something I didn't think I had was roots until about the age of 35. 00:08:35.460 --> 00:08:41.039 I went,"Oh my gosh, I'm starting to put down roots." I put, I put paint on the wall in an apartment. 00:08:41.190 --> 00:08:48.120 I put art up, things that I hadn't done until like in my thirties. 00:08:49.039 --> 00:08:52.830 And, and I constantly want to hear people like get really sentimental about their families. 00:08:52.831 --> 00:08:56.409 I'm like, that's not my experience. 00:08:57.690 --> 00:08:59.200 You know, that's not my experience. 00:08:59.201 --> 00:09:16.000 You know, they, they didn't have the, you know, you hear the key in the lock and you run and you hide and how long you take that with you that you're like,"Oh my God, I'm still not, I still don't have home. 00:09:16.179 --> 00:09:18.759 I still don't have family." 00:09:20.470 --> 00:09:23.500 I was born in Toronto, but my parents are from Ghana. 00:09:24.940 --> 00:09:35.409 Um, a lot of the issues I faced growing up as, you know, uh, I didn't really even, even just being born here, I never, they... 00:09:36.129 --> 00:09:39.429 Being born here, you know, I didn't really have that. 00:09:39.431 --> 00:09:51.519 Like, cause I like a lot of people have these things of like, you know,"Oh, I'm proud to be Canadian and this and this." It's like a lot of what sort of pushed in the home was like, you know, the value of, you know, being an African person and which is, which is all good and fine. 00:09:51.520 --> 00:10:12.730 But a lot of that value came and these ideas of manhood that never quite connected, you know, um, the things that I thought, things that I felt that the ways I express myself, like, you know, our men could never, you know, and a lot of that, um, pressure to sort of fit that mold, um, came in the form of a lot of abuse in the home. 00:10:12.730 --> 00:10:16.090 A lot of, you know, homophobia, like intense, intense homophobia. 00:10:16.091 --> 00:10:30.759 Like, I would probably say I probably suffered worse homophobia in the home, you know, from my own mother than I got up in the streets, you know, which a lot of people hear that they're like, wow, you know, cause like it's like, it's usually, you know, you get a little bit bad at home, but it's never as bad as what you face outside. 00:10:30.760 --> 00:10:34.870 But no I feel like anything I've faced at home was worse than it is in the streets. 00:10:34.870 --> 00:11:01.809 So, um, you know, thinking about, you know, my heritage and my roots and then even having extended family that's, you know, mostly mostly Jamaican as well, which again, their man could never, we don't, you know, like, just this idea that, you know, this queerness that was kind of sort of budding and developing and it was kind of like, you know, in, in, in the background for a bit, I was always sort of peeking in like, OK, when, when could I come out, you know, when could I sort of, and it was always sort of this fear. 00:11:02.809 --> 00:11:07.419 And a lot of that fear came from like, you know, um, my background. 00:11:07.840 --> 00:11:17.440 So even, you know, being someone of African descent, like I can't really even embrace that because the idea of like, you know, that culture leaving home, like it's, it's scary to me. 00:11:17.441 --> 00:11:32.610 You know, it's, it's, it's more of like, you know, walk into like, you know, like, I don't know, I feel like even just embracing the idea of being an African person or, or even on the my extended family side, like embracing that Caribbean side, it's like, it all just feels like I'm just walking into my death. 00:11:57.720 --> 00:11:58.649 Um, queer family is really important. 00:12:00.159 --> 00:12:09.879 Um, when you, when your family of origin, when it takes a while for them to get with the program and, uh, 00:12:09.990 --> 00:12:10.950 if they ever get there, 00:12:12.750 --> 00:12:14.879 If they ever get there! And it's really, really, really important. 00:12:14.909 --> 00:12:21.659 I think that's why we are all magnetized to big cities because you just feel like,"I'll find my people here. 00:12:21.660 --> 00:12:23.990 I'll find my people here." And hopefully you do. 00:12:24.000 --> 00:12:39.929 And some of them won't disappoint you and you'll go, and sometimes, you know, queer family breakups are more painful than relationship breakups, you know, because there's so much, so much intensity with how you come together and how you move through the city together through parties and social worlds. 00:12:41.220 --> 00:12:45.330 Um, but it's, um, it's, I think it's vital. 00:12:45.331 --> 00:12:48.000 I don't think I-, I wouldn't've survived without it. 00:12:50.429 --> 00:12:53.070 I did that when I, when I moved here, I moved alone. 00:12:53.071 --> 00:12:54.029 I didn't know anyone. 00:12:54.240 --> 00:12:56.789 I moved with a person who was my roommate, but we were not friends. 00:12:56.791 --> 00:12:59.009 We just figured out that we're moving to the same city. 00:12:59.549 --> 00:13:05.429 And, um, and then I was like, I just need to, nobody's gonna come try to be my friend. 00:13:05.460 --> 00:13:09.330 I need to go to every queer space in the city until I find them. 00:13:09.331 --> 00:13:14.600 And I, but then my chosen family became people that I met outside Cherry Bomb, like mostly. 00:13:14.600 --> 00:13:14.600 [ Laughter] 00:13:18.389 --> 00:13:18.870 I met a lot of people smoking. 00:13:20.049 --> 00:13:23.850 I don't smoke but, my friend was smoking at that time, but I remember I heard an accent and I was like,"Mexican?" And she was like,"Yeah". 00:13:25.629 --> 00:13:35.610 And I'm like,"Pizza?" It was like,"yeah." And she was like my best friend in the world, my best friend, I met her outside Cherry Bomb just cause we were Mexican and the next weekend we're like, all our plans. 00:13:35.639 --> 00:13:37.490 Like we have our lifetime together now. 00:13:38.100 --> 00:13:43.590 And that was like most of my group of friends now it's people and it's going to sound weird, but I've kind of choose them. 00:13:43.591 --> 00:13:47.100 It was like you, you, you, you, you, you and that's it. 00:13:47.200 --> 00:13:55.620 And until we came, like I used to live on an apartment, at triple six Spadina, we had no furniture, but it was like gigantic space with no furniture. 00:13:55.620 --> 00:14:02.629 So I used to throw parties every Saturday when I was a student then my parents were still supporting me[ L aughter] Now there's no parties at all. 00:14:05.009 --> 00:14:16.860 But it was like I would just invite people and people and people, c ause I was also like Latinx family i s like, everybody's like, we all need to be together forever a nd ever a nd all the time until, my friends were like,"I think we're enough. 00:14:16.980 --> 00:14:20.070 Don't invite more people." And a part of m e was like,"no, no, no, no, no. 00:14:20.071 --> 00:14:30.009 We need to bring more people." And they were like,"we're a healthy amount." A nd I w as l ike, okay. 00:14:30.509 --> 00:14:39.029 But then it became like a t hing the core friends that we were there now we're still really good friends and w e're still, it's hard n ow c ause everybody works differently. 00:14:39.030 --> 00:14:45.809 And I was t he l ike the person who was keeping it together but then working in arts like you a ll know like weekends are like not a thing. 00:14:45.840 --> 00:14:51.120 So i t became harder then, but my friends are like literally every show I have, they will be there. 00:14:52.740 --> 00:14:56.789 This year I w on the emerging award f or Buddies and they were all there. 00:14:56.791 --> 00:15:00.750 And for me i t was like, it was more important for me to have them there than my parents. 00:15:01.590 --> 00:15:16.230 I'm g oing t o cry n ow, but it was like, it's this idea that became, like we all talk to each other how it's important that we are there for each other b ecause I w as, a ll my chosen families are- Oh my God, I'm dying- are immigrants. 00:15:16.620 --> 00:15:21.269 S o we like have this thing of like we need to stick together now. 00:15:21.330 --> 00:15:23.159 Like it's, we're more than friends. 00:15:23.190 --> 00:15:24.179 It's a family thing. 00:15:24.210 --> 00:15:32.149 And we talk about how when we don't have time a nd it's like, no, we need to make the time b ecause this is what's important. 00:15:32.159 --> 00:15:36.210 Like, u h, every Pride, I throw a party on the, u h, the day of the Dyke March. 00:15:36.840 --> 00:15:39.539 We can be like super busy, it's still g onna happen. 00:15:39.659 --> 00:15:45.990 Like we're g onna see each other and it, it's, it's not about like us getting drunk and partying. 00:15:45.990 --> 00:15:55.080 It's m ost like, it's our time to celebrate why we ran away from where we came from t o have this possibility of getting together. 00:16:07.220 --> 00:16:13.730 That was from her November 17th live recording session entitled Home is where the Homo is: Explorations of Home. 00:16:15.230 --> 00:16:20.419 The next recording is from the session Home for the Holi-gays: Stories of surviving the holidays. 00:16:21.110 --> 00:16:28.129 We were joined by the incredible Jill Andrew, MPP for Toronto St Paul's, the riding in which the Oakwood Village Library is located. 00:16:29.240 --> 00:16:35.269 Joining Jill was her partner Aisha as well as a larger group of participants to discuss home and the holidays. 00:16:36.169 --> 00:16:41.539 Since we recorded this in early December, the holiday we hear most participants reference is Christmas. 00:16:42.320 --> 00:16:49.940 But I think it's fair to say that regardless of the actual holiday or tradition being celebrated, many fears and struggles explored in the recording remain the same. 00:16:54.750 --> 00:16:55.830 I hate the holidays. 00:16:57.629 --> 00:16:58.110 Growing up. 00:16:58.110 --> 00:16:59.850 I, I, I loved them. 00:16:59.850 --> 00:17:01.259 I grew up in a, in a big family. 00:17:01.260 --> 00:17:03.330 I'm the oldest of four kids. 00:17:04.140 --> 00:17:15.690 Um, the whole outing stuff happened and the family that I knew, the extended cousins the occasions, Christmas, Thanksgiving, all those things totally lost them, ripped me apart. 00:17:16.079 --> 00:17:17.759 So it's really hard for me. 00:17:18.180 --> 00:17:23.400 Um, even now my can, just long story short, my dad didn't talk to me for 10 years. 00:17:23.401 --> 00:17:26.880 He only started talking to me maybe about two years ago. 00:17:27.869 --> 00:17:30.420 Um, so it's, it's, it's back and forth. 00:17:31.440 --> 00:17:42.210 Um, so it's, it's tough, you know, now that I'm allowed to be in the house during the holidays, um, it's difficult cause at times, you know, my partner, Jill, she can't come. 00:17:43.119 --> 00:17:50.940 So, you know, and I still miss the traditions that we have, no matter how complicated it, it's, it's what I know and it's what I grew up. 00:17:51.660 --> 00:17:56.039 So at times I am there, but then I'm thinking about Jill, right? 00:17:56.040 --> 00:17:57.660 So it's hard. 00:17:57.300 --> 00:18:03.029 Either it's, if I stay with Jill, then I feel guilty for not being with my family. 00:18:03.480 --> 00:18:08.190 And then if I'm with my family, I feel guilty because I can't bring Jill. 00:18:08.191 --> 00:18:12.930 So I feel like I'm just ripped in half so I, I hate the holidays. 00:18:12.960 --> 00:18:13.740 This holiday. 00:18:13.740 --> 00:18:24.839 I want to, I'm trying my best to see if I can start to create a new tradition without feeling the loss and grief of my, uh, my family. 00:18:25.380 --> 00:18:26.220 Um, so I don't know. 00:18:26.309 --> 00:18:27.450 I don't know how I'm going to do that. 00:18:27.451 --> 00:18:31.380 We have some friends that have said, you know, you can just come spend time with us. 00:18:32.220 --> 00:18:33.630 I think we can try. 00:18:34.170 --> 00:18:38.430 But it is going to hurt because I can't go home. 00:18:39.349 --> 00:18:47.579 Um, things are up and down in my family sometimes I'm accepted, other times like now, I'm not. 00:18:48.380 --> 00:18:48.380 Hmm. 00:18:49.410 --> 00:18:49.829 Yeah. 00:18:50.400 --> 00:19:03.450 Um, the first year that I brought my girlfriend home for Christmas, um, it, I definitely understand that kind of stress of, uh, being unsure how the dynamics are gonna work out. 00:19:03.779 --> 00:19:08.400 My family, um, are the definition of like crazy Chrismas people. 00:19:08.430 --> 00:19:09.390 We all love it. 00:19:09.060 --> 00:19:18.089 We're the kind of people that have decorations on everything and are playing Christmas music as soon as November finishes, like, next level. 00:19:19.019 --> 00:19:30.059 Um, and my parents have never, uh, and I've been very lucky in that my parents have never, um, had any issue with how I identify, um, or anything like that. 00:19:30.060 --> 00:19:33.240 But I have a very complicated relationship with my parents. 00:19:34.230 --> 00:19:36.420 Um, we're not very close. 00:19:36.869 --> 00:19:46.740 Um, we disagree on a lot of things and I think that breaking closeness is really prevalent on my end and something that they choose to ignore. 00:19:47.549 --> 00:19:57.180 And so at Christmas time it, um, there's a lot of emphasis on family and all being together and uh, feeling really close. 00:19:57.181 --> 00:20:00.450 And that's not something that I get super comfortable with. 00:20:00.990 --> 00:20:16.170 And so when I brought my girlfriend home, um, you know, it was bringing my best friend in the whole world and it felt scary because it was going to be sharing a very personal part of my life with them, which I'm sure they would love. 00:20:16.680 --> 00:20:25.410 And for me, having something that personal with them was scary and they loved her and it was great. 00:20:25.411 --> 00:20:33.450 But I spent the entire night in this sort of constant state of fight or flight because I'm thinking about what are they going to say? 00:20:33.451 --> 00:20:34.920 I'm thinking about what's she gonna say? 00:20:34.921 --> 00:20:44.069 I'm thinking about how can I basically put up bumpers around everything that's happening because I just want this to stay as smooth as possible. 00:20:45.099 --> 00:20:56.289 Um, and not that I necessarily think anything really horrible would happen, but I'm just so used to being kind of disappointed by familial interactions with them. 00:20:57.400 --> 00:21:15.430 It's interesting because it's not an issue with being queer, but it is an issue of that kind of disconnect and that emphasis on family and that emphasis on happiness that I do have because I love Christmas, but it creates this pretense of closeness that isn't there. 00:21:16.059 --> 00:21:21.400 And so it can feel very forced and kind of uncomfortable and unsure how to navigate that. 00:21:21.880 --> 00:21:24.750 Since you're on the, it gets better train. 00:21:25.730 --> 00:21:35.970 Um, I'm going to, uh, talk about Christmas, like an evolution because I'm, um, and it's funny cause I've got my little cousin here, so it's like a tale of three Christmases. 00:21:35.971 --> 00:21:37.009 Let's try it. 00:21:37.109 --> 00:21:38.490 I'm coming up with it as we go. 00:21:38.490 --> 00:21:45.809 But I was in the closet my whole twenties, um, through a couple of girlfriends, maybe three. 00:21:45.990 --> 00:22:09.599 And it was really stressful because some of them were out, some of them weren't, then it was like,"Are you gonna come to my parents'?" But you know,"How's it all gonna work?" And there's a lot of guilt and shame around the fact that I was like Brown and from a traditional family and, and I was convinced and I mean convinced I'm not a not intelligent person, that I was going to destroy my family. 00:22:09.601 --> 00:22:10.769 I was going to destroy my parents. 00:22:10.770 --> 00:22:14.880 I was going to destroy my mother and I could never come out as long as I live. 00:22:15.319 --> 00:22:17.250 Like there was no way it was going to happen. 00:22:17.279 --> 00:22:20.009 So I was just going to live a double life and that was going to be fine. 00:22:20.069 --> 00:22:32.420 And like my little cousins didn't know I had girlfriends, although I think this one figured it out, you know, like it was all just very like,"Oh, when you know, are you dating any boys?" And I'd be like,"I'm too busy" and that whole thing. 00:22:33.930 --> 00:22:37.019 So let's just pick a random Christmas in my twenties. 00:22:37.470 --> 00:22:46.859 And I'm secretly taking calls in the basement with my girlfriend and my parents are upstairs and the aunts and uncles are coming over and talking about boyfriends and it's so stressful and the anxiety and the whatever. 00:22:47.099 --> 00:22:50.170 Then like, let's fast forward seven years. 00:22:51.039 --> 00:23:00.589 And um, I had come out and it was the first time I was bringing a girl home for Christmas. 00:23:00.619 --> 00:23:02.690 And of course, so much anxiety. 00:23:03.740 --> 00:23:07.769 Um, and it was lovely. 00:23:08.190 --> 00:23:08.849 It was amazing. 00:23:08.851 --> 00:23:11.190 My, my dad was okay with it. 00:23:11.191 --> 00:23:12.450 My mom was, was a bit weird. 00:23:12.509 --> 00:23:22.029 It's weirder for me, I think than for anybody else, but like, I will never forget watching my girlfriend open gifts that my parents bought for her and thinking to myself. 00:23:23.430 --> 00:23:31.200 It was fucking inconceivable, inconceivable to me on any planet on any level than that day would ever come. 00:23:31.201 --> 00:23:38.700 And we're all like jingle jangle Christmas tree and she's opening gifts and you know, and I was just like, what is happening? 00:23:38.701 --> 00:23:39.799 And it was so surreal. 00:23:39.829 --> 00:23:41.549 It was that an out of body experience. 00:23:41.550 --> 00:23:44.539 I was like, this is inconceivable to me. 00:23:44.599 --> 00:23:48.319 And then fast forward a few more Christmases. 00:23:48.670 --> 00:23:49.759 And we spend Christmas together. 00:23:49.760 --> 00:24:00.470 Now her family and her dad and my dad are cousins and she- the same Christmas that she's talking about where she's totally anxious cause she's brought her girlfriend to Christmas for the first time. 00:24:00.471 --> 00:24:09.799 I had my girlfriend there and I'm thinking to myself,"Look at this big gay family we live in, I'm here with my girlfriend and she's here with her girlfriend and everything is amazing and whatever." And she's having a meltdown. 00:24:09.800 --> 00:24:22.609 So it's just about, it's about evolution and it's about time passing and, and how, you know, something that was literally inconceivable to like, I thought I would die in the closet. 00:24:23.869 --> 00:24:26.990 Um, and then fast forward 15 years and everything's different. 00:24:26.990 --> 00:24:27.859 So I don't know. 00:24:27.890 --> 00:24:36.410 I don't know, for whatever it's worth, like, um, those walls that we build and the thing and time, sometimes your family will surprise you in a good way. 00:24:37.250 --> 00:24:43.430 And I understand that there's a lot of privilege around that and there's a lot of, I have to give all the credit to my mom for making it all work. 00:24:43.431 --> 00:24:53.000 But, um, yeah, I honestly, it was a, it used to be Christmas used to be a really dark, scary, weird, awful stressful. 00:24:53.000 --> 00:25:02.750 It was when my double life was the most, um, loud, you know, when, uh, when both things were so loud that I was literally really living a double life. 00:25:03.170 --> 00:25:13.700 And now I am not, and I don't know, it's just, uh, my feelings around the holidays have totally changed cause I look forward to seeing her and I look forward to seeing the family and being myself. 00:25:13.701 --> 00:25:16.279 And if I have a partner, I bring them and it's, it's all good. 00:25:16.369 --> 00:25:18.109 So I dunno, it gets better. 00:25:18.111 --> 00:25:18.940 I don't know, whatever. 00:25:19.549 --> 00:25:20.900 Maybe it does for some people. 00:25:20.661 --> 00:25:21.789 For some it does. 00:25:21.980 --> 00:25:26.079 If I can just, I- I forgot to mention this that I came out to my mother on Christmas day. 00:25:27.339 --> 00:25:29.339 It was on Christmas day. 00:25:29.339 --> 00:25:29.339 That was the present. 00:25:29.470 --> 00:25:29.890 Right? 00:25:30.460 --> 00:25:34.240 It was on Christmas day and it was hours before we went to see Dream Girls. 00:25:34.630 --> 00:25:42.099 I remember I broke something because I was so nervous on Christmas because I love Christmas by then in hiding who I was. 00:25:42.460 --> 00:25:44.980 It's like, okay, I'm not enjoying Christmas. 00:25:45.369 --> 00:25:48.490 Then I broke something and then she said,"Jilly, what is wrong? 00:25:48.950 --> 00:25:56.559 Like you just haven't been yourself." And then I just burst into tears and I told her on Christmas day, you know, and I mean, it wasn't good. 00:25:56.560 --> 00:25:58.000 But we still went to the movies. 00:25:58.599 --> 00:26:08.829 We still went to the movies weirdly, even though she was so upset and disappointed and brought out my grandmother's Bible and all that stuff. 00:26:09.210 --> 00:26:13.420 But weirdly enough we were still able to to get to the movie theater. 00:26:13.421 --> 00:26:19.390 I don't even know how we got to the movie theatre that day but we still went and then we barely talked for a year. 00:26:19.509 --> 00:26:20.680 It's just kind of hi and bye. 00:26:21.839 --> 00:26:25.329 I'm curious like about new traditions for people. 00:26:27.549 --> 00:26:30.519 I know a lot of you talked about sort of looking for that. 00:26:31.359 --> 00:26:40.289 Does anyone have like things that they started doing recently that they've sort of felt as a new- queer or not but sort of their own take on celebrating? 00:26:43.650 --> 00:26:47.549 We changed things up in my family cause my mom passed away about 11 years ago and that was really... 00:26:47.550 --> 00:26:52.559 because my mom was such a Christmas, she was the Christmas everything. 00:26:52.560 --> 00:27:07.230 So, uh, we just currently we're forced into trying new things and uh, we, my, we kind of do like a, we call it like a, it's my dad and my sister and my sister is also gay. 00:27:08.079 --> 00:27:13.079 Uh, we do like a bad boys dinner and we- we have like something that my mom would never approve of. 00:27:12.780 --> 00:27:19.049 [Laughter] We actually do like crab. 00:27:19.099 --> 00:27:20.279 Really, really nice. 00:27:20.280 --> 00:27:21.430 Rich crab dinner. 00:27:21.559 --> 00:27:24.789 Seafood which is probably not traditional. 00:27:25.630 --> 00:27:39.549 You know, sometimes you're forced into new traditions out of painful things, but it can, the more you do it, the easier it kind of becomes and you start looking forward to these things, even though they may have come from something quite challenging. 00:27:41.000 --> 00:27:48.500 It's, it's funny how when you're sitting at a table with folks, so you start to remember things that are so relevant that you don't really like, you forget. 00:27:49.009 --> 00:28:06.710 So I feel like at our home because I, because, because I don't have that big family and I think also because of, you know, some of the conversations we've had about the family challenges on your end and sometimes we don't even have the Turkey. 00:28:06.711 --> 00:28:07.670 I forgot that. 00:28:08.220 --> 00:28:14.690 Like sometimes we have salmon and lobster and chicken and whatever and it's just a nice meal. 00:28:15.079 --> 00:28:21.079 So we try to move away sometimes from the symbolism, of like the signifiers of Christmas. 00:28:21.220 --> 00:28:41.900 There's years we haven't even had a tree, but what we do is we have friends over, like we'll always welcome friends over or sometimes we'll go to friends, so it just becomes another, you know, another opportunity to celebrate, love the friends that we have, those who have accepted us that want us the ones that we want. 00:28:42.589 --> 00:28:42.950 Yeah. 00:28:44.210 --> 00:28:44.450 Yeah. 00:28:44.451 --> 00:28:47.599 I think, I mean my friends are my family in a way. 00:28:48.029 --> 00:28:54.349 They are actually my friends are my family and I guess in that case I do have the big, t he big family. 00:28:55.029 --> 00:28:55.029 W ow. 00:28:55.180 --> 00:28:55.779 I s ee t hat. 00:28:56.339 --> 00:28:56.339 Y eah. 00:28:56.450 --> 00:28:58.130 I guess I do have a big family. 00:28:58.390 --> 00:29:01.970 Like I said with Fudger House, I mean they're. 00:29:03.670 --> 00:29:08.509 Well I don't know every one of them there, b ut I feel that is my family. 00:29:08.660 --> 00:29:09.289 Yeah. 00:29:11.029 --> 00:29:19.190 That's, that's something that I've had to, I've, I've had to learn because my family was- my family was my family and my friends were my friends. 00:29:20.170 --> 00:29:31.109 Um, so I have started to realize that my friends that some, not all of them[ Laughter] S ome of my friends are my family. 00:29:33.700 --> 00:29:49.390 Thinks one thing I learned is I'm like, I shared my story about childhood but, kinda connected to your story of what you're feeling right now is that I had that feeling for like, it was like about 10 years ago where Christmas and I was like one day I was like, where am I gonna go? 00:29:49.410 --> 00:29:50.289 Not going back home. 00:29:50.799 --> 00:29:51.819 So where am I going to go? 00:29:51.820 --> 00:29:55.660 And then my aunt called me like six o'clock at night and she's like,"What are you doing at home? 00:29:55.690 --> 00:30:00.069 I mean your own home." And she said, get over here and now we have food and stuff. 00:30:00.130 --> 00:30:04.690 And so that was like 10 years ago and now it's kind of like I have to go there. 00:30:04.691 --> 00:30:07.170 She's always like,"what time are you coming over on Christmas Eve?" like. 00:30:07.359 --> 00:30:20.160 So I think talking about what you're talking about is like recreating or creating your own thing and you'll find, somebody said a while ago about feeling welcomed where you are, people looking forward to people accepting you. 00:30:20.160 --> 00:30:22.630 For me, that's what the holidays have become. 00:30:23.000 --> 00:30:33.640 And what I find it gives me health, like mental health, emotional health as opposed to what I kind of experienced with immediate family, which is"You're not there. 00:30:33.641 --> 00:30:34.779 We don't see you, we can't hear you. 00:30:34.780 --> 00:30:41.410 We don't want you." That's why I kind of like, I'm creating for myself, have had created for myself, kinda thing. 00:30:41.410 --> 00:30:44.710 For your emotional wellbeing. 00:30:44.769 --> 00:30:45.190 Absolutely. 00:30:45.210 --> 00:30:45.519 Yeah. 00:30:46.130 --> 00:30:46.519 Yeah. 00:30:48.789 --> 00:30:55.779 You know, I think for myself, I, I mean I've always known how important my friends were to me in, in creating family. 00:30:55.839 --> 00:30:56.680 In that sense. 00:30:57.009 --> 00:31:18.220 I think what I'm, what I'm realizing is, is that I am surrounded by people who, who treat me well and I treat them well and we create Christmas throughout the year, you know, I mean, really having your friends over or going to their home and having a nice dinner or playing a game of cards or whatever the case might be. 00:31:18.670 --> 00:31:26.380 You know, I think that, and it ties into the capitalism that ties into the Christmas carols, which I personally love, but sometimes I find myself crying. 00:31:26.381 --> 00:31:37.359 And I think I, that's a whole other thing where it's like, maybe I'm crying for loss or, you know, what should have been, or could have been in terms of my mum and family. 00:31:38.200 --> 00:31:48.309 Um, but really you can create the holidays throughout the year and we don't need a calendar or a certain song or you know, certain wrapping paper to suggest that. 00:31:48.640 --> 00:31:59.859 So I think I'm, I'm taking out of this to remember that and, and, and to really realize how full my dining table really is throughout the year. 00:32:01.210 --> 00:32:02.920 And it's really not about quantity. 00:32:03.130 --> 00:32:05.920 It's about the quality of those people that are around my table. 00:32:31.670 --> 00:32:32.309 I forgot what I was gonna say. 00:32:33.451 --> 00:32:42.500 Um just, yeah, the idea of home has changed for home is, is Jill home is- home, is my partner. 00:32:43.069 --> 00:32:57.559 Um, you know, I think of, you know, being at being at the table or going home and after- when I'm allowed- after you know, 15 minutes like you're excited and you know, in my house I cook a lot with my mother, so I'm having fun, having fun. 00:32:59.059 --> 00:33:01.910 And then I realize my heart's not with me, you know? 00:33:02.059 --> 00:33:15.859 So it is, it's, you only know growing up- or all I knew was growing up and having and loving my family and realizing that things have changed and they're not fully accepting me and that I have to create my own traditions. 00:33:15.861 --> 00:33:18.740 I've been really, really they're so hard. 00:33:18.740 --> 00:33:21.890 I struggle with them all the time. 00:33:23.069 --> 00:33:35.750 Um, but I, you know, when, when LezLie said she goes where she's wanted, that really resonated with me to: surround yourself with people where you are when you're performing and it's not always easy. 00:33:36.720 --> 00:33:40.369 Um, and sometimes we have to make choices that are difficult. 00:33:40.371 --> 00:33:42.349 And I'm saying this because I will, I will have to. 00:33:42.351 --> 00:34:06.619 It's conversations I've had with my brother and my friends and I say, I, I'm just, I have, I'm just trying to figure out how to really create my own without feeling guilty and how- having to really be able to enjoy the love that I have and know that you know, that I'll, that I'll be okay. 00:34:07.829 --> 00:34:12.710 But it's just really important to surround yourself by people who will make you feel wanted. 00:34:13.519 --> 00:34:15.559 It's, it is tough. 00:34:15.829 --> 00:34:16.610 It is tough. 00:34:17.539 --> 00:34:21.710 Um, but I'm really grateful to be able to have a conversation like this. 00:34:21.739 --> 00:34:24.860 And to know that I'm, I'm not alone. 00:34:25.739 --> 00:34:34.579 Um, and I hope that it gives me the strength to make the choices that will make me feel loved and wanted over the holidays. 00:34:41.289 --> 00:34:44.559 I hope you enjoyed the third episode of The Youth/ Elders Podcast. 00:34:45.250 --> 00:34:48.670 Thank you to MPP, Jill Andrew and her partner Aisha for joining us. 00:34:49.300 --> 00:34:54.579 This has been a production of Buddies in Bad Times Theatre, the world's largest and longest running queer theatre company. 00:34:55.510 --> 00:35:02.559 We want to thank all of the amazing participants who were featured today and all those who came out to the live recording sessions last year and shared their lives with us. 00:35:03.699 --> 00:35:08.619 I also want to thank our incredible YEP team, Daniel Carter, LeZlie Lee Kam and Aidan Morishita-Miki. 00:35:10.420 --> 00:35:17.019 Special thanks to our sound engineer Jessie Tollefsen, who not only recorded and edited each episode but also created our theme song. 00:35:18.369 --> 00:35:21.820 Thank you to artistic director, Evalyn Parry and the entire family at Buddies. 00:35:22.659 --> 00:35:27.760 Special thanks to the Toronto Arts Council and Iana and her team at the Oakwood Village Library for their support. 00:35:28.239 --> 00:35:32.590 And finally, thank you for tuning in and supporting The Youth/ Elders Podcast. 00:35:33.099 --> 00:35:50.159 Please feel free to find us on social media as Buddies in Bad Times Theatre or@buddiesTO and online on the Buddies in Bad Times Theatre website, buddiesinbadtimes.com/yep- there you can find out about upcoming episodes, featured guests and links to episode notes and community resources. 00:35:51.190 --> 00:35:58.389 You thought this podcast was recorded on the traditional lands of the Mississauga of the credit, the Anishnaabe, the Haudenosonee, and the Huron Wendat. 00:35:58.681 --> 00:36:03.150 We'll be back in a bit with season two. 00:36:03.780 --> 00:36:05.340 Until then, be well.