Speaker 1: I talk a lot about home cause I'm, I'm from Mexico.
Speaker 1: Oy! I hate when I say like that, it makes me sad.
Speaker 1: Mexico.
Speaker 1: [Laughter] And uh, and it was, I was, uh, on that piece I talked in Spanglish and I talked about my parents mostly.
Speaker 1: And I talked about the lies I told to them since I moved here, which there are a lot.
Speaker 1: Uh, but then I also mentioned something that I, it really stuck to me.
Speaker 1: It's like I don't miss home at all, but also- what's home?
Speaker 1: Because now this feels like home and what I have here and the chosen family I have here, it's way- not better because it's a certain type of family environment in Mexico, but here I created the thing that makes me feel safe.
Speaker 1: So it feels more like home.
Speaker 1: But it's- yesterday, some friends from Mexico are visiting right now and one of them was asking me like,"Don't you miss it?
Speaker 1: I couldn't be apart from my family.
Speaker 1: I couldn't be apart- don't you miss your family?" And I didn't even think about it, I say"no".
Speaker 1: And then I was like,"Oh, no, I'm a horrible, horrible human." And I was like, but it's different because distance can really help you or fuck you in a way because I don't see them.
Speaker 1: So I don't think about them that much.
Speaker 1: So I don't know.
Speaker 1: This year, this is the first year I'm not going to Mexico for Christmas and I'm sad, but I'm also relieved.
Speaker 1: So it's a lot of conflict right now.
Speaker 1: But it's this thing of I don't know, I've been- and I put it out the group.
Speaker 1: It's like when does it- does time make home a thing or is it an experience, or like what does home, like what encompasses a home?
Speaker 1: That's my mostly biggest question right now.
Vanessa Dunn: Hi, my name is Vanessa Dunn and welcome to the youth elders podcast.
Vanessa Dunn: Today's episode revolves around the idea of home.
Vanessa Dunn: You know, we make a lot of assumptions when we reference home.
Vanessa Dunn: It's shorthand, it's simple, it's something we should know and recognize immediately.
Vanessa Dunn: It's family, it's our family of origin.
Vanessa Dunn: It's the people who should love us and in turn, whom we should love unconditionally.
Vanessa Dunn: It's cultural, it's who we are.
Vanessa Dunn: It's tradition, it's roots.
Vanessa Dunn: It's something that fits.
Vanessa Dunn: It's something we can embody and represent properly.
Vanessa Dunn: It's located.
Vanessa Dunn: You always know where it is safe.
Vanessa Dunn: We feel safe at home, right?
Vanessa Dunn: Well, today's podcast shifts those assumptions and unpacks the word home from the perspective of queers, many of whom are newcomers, trauma survivors, and come from culturally and racially diverse backgrounds.
Vanessa Dunn: Today's introduction and part one of our podcast is from the November 17th live recording session, entitled, Home is where the Homo is: Explorations of home.
Vanessa Dunn: Now, episode three of The Youth/ Elders Podcast.
Speaker 2: I came here when I was 16 and I felt I lost my home.
Speaker 2: I lost Trinidad, I lost my culture, I lost everything that was me and I didn't get it back, really, I realize now until this year when I went back and I felt I was home.
Speaker 2: And when you're talking about what makes home, so for me, it's my culture.
Speaker 2: And even though I live here and I call, um, Toronto home, it's a place where I live.
Speaker 2: It's not home because my culture is my home.
Speaker 2: So I've had to do that to keep me sane.
Speaker 2: Otherwise, I would not have been able to survive here.
Speaker 2: So it's creating culture with people who have like minded, you know, understanding of what it means to be a Trini or somebody from the Caribbean or who is West Indian.
Speaker 2: For me now, that's home, yeah.
Vanessa Dunn: Has that changed from when you were younger?
Vanessa Dunn: Like you?
Speaker 2: Yeah, cause I didn't realize that's what I was missing.
Speaker 2: And when I went back in February, I thought I could live in Trinidad, but it really wasn't- the country wasn't home anymore, but the culture was home.
Speaker 3: I can speak on the flip side to that, being a Caribbean person who was born in Canada, having the Caribbean culture as, as my home as my default, as like my, um, you know, cultural knowledge and stuff like that.
Speaker 3: But um, being born in Canada just means that you are not indigenous to this land.
Speaker 3: But then when you go back to what you're supposed to be, what's supposed to be home.
Speaker 3: So your parents' ancestry for me would be either Jamaica or Antiga.
Speaker 3: That wouldn't be a home either because you were born in Canada and they'll see you as a foreigner.
Speaker 3: Let's see you as a, as a Canadian person.
Speaker 3: Um, but even being a Caribbean person means that you're also displaced from Africa, um, through the transatlantic slave trade.
Speaker 3: So you lost those cultural connections to what is his home, your base, your roots.
Speaker 3: Um, you know, so even when you go back to Africa or like any African countries, you don't know where you're supposed to be.
Speaker 3: You don't know what a home is, you don't know, um, I guess, where your roots are.
Speaker 3: So uh, so African people or people you know, in different African countries will see you as a Caribbean person and the Caribbeans will see you as Canadian, but you don't really feel Canadian because you're black and you, um, you know, are always hyphenated and you're not really part of this, of the, um, social Canadian like fabric because you're not, um, I guess part of the colonial fabric.
Speaker 3: But when you're not an indigenous person to kind of this, so.
Speaker 4: I couldn't really relate to that, part of that experience.
Speaker 4: Um, like I mentioned, I was born in Bangladesh and I lived there till I was 11 and then my family started moving around for my dad's job.
Speaker 4: So I lived in a bunch of different places from like Ethiopia, Sudan, Thailand, India, US throughout my teens.
Speaker 4: And then came to Canada when I was 17 for university.
Speaker 4: So I've been here 12 years now and I still don't call Canada or Toronto home because I don't know what that means.
Speaker 4: It felt like at 11 I was uprooted and I moved around a lot.
Speaker 4: And because I moved so much, I was always scared to put roots down because I was like, well, we know that I'm going to go to a new high school next year so there's no point, like settling.
Speaker 4: But I've been here 12 years now and I have moments where I'm like, this should be home.
Speaker 4: This should feel like, like what do you define it by?
Speaker 4: If 12 years isn't enough time, what is?
Speaker 4: Um, but speaking to what you were saying, that experience of like when I go back to Bangladesh to visit my cousins, they are talking about like,"Oh, this new shari is out, dah, dah, dah." And I'm like, I understand the words that are coming out of your mouth, but you are speaking a different language.
Speaker 4: I don't understand the context.
Speaker 4: But at the same time, there's so many places here, like, again I've lived here 12 years and I still walk into rooms where I'm like, I'm the other, I feel like an alien because I just don't feel like- I don't fit into either culture.
Speaker 4: Um, and that's tricky to say the least.
Speaker 2: When I go back now, I open my mouth and the first thing they say to me is,"Oh, you're foreign.
Speaker 2: That's it, you're foreign." So you have no right anymore to your home.
Speaker 2: So.
Speaker 2: Since that keeps happening to me, I have created my own little Trini home here.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 2: But it's that- there's always that little connection, you just know.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And that means so much.
Speaker 2: And for me anyway in my heart that there's that little belonging.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Like identity.
Speaker 5: We don't realize how early it starts to form in us.
Speaker 5: And I'm, I'm sitting in listening to these tables going, you know, I'm, I'm a trauma survivor, so we- alcoholic father, we moved all the time.
Speaker 5: Uh, no connection to my grandparents, no connections to aunt and uncles, no, no school longer than two years.
Speaker 5: Um, so at no point, so I, you know, something I didn't think I had was roots until about the age of 35.
Speaker 5: I went,"Oh my gosh, I'm starting to put down roots." I put, I put paint on the wall in an apartment.
Speaker 5: I put art up, things that I hadn't done until like in my thirties.
Speaker 5: And, and I constantly want to hear people like get really sentimental about their families.
Speaker 5: I'm like, that's not my experience.
Speaker 5: You know, that's not my experience.
Speaker 5: You know, they, they didn't have the, you know, you hear the key in the lock and you run and you hide and how long you take that with you that you're like,"Oh my God, I'm still not, I still don't have home.
Speaker 5: I still don't have family."
Speaker 6: I was born in Toronto, but my parents are from Ghana.
Speaker 6: Um, a lot of the issues I faced growing up as, you know, uh, I didn't really even, even just being born here, I never, they...
Speaker 6: Being born here, you know, I didn't really have that.
Speaker 6: Like, cause I like a lot of people have these things of like, you know,"Oh, I'm proud to be Canadian and this and this." It's like a lot of what sort of pushed in the home was like, you know, the value of, you know, being an African person and which is, which is all good and fine.
Speaker 6: But a lot of that value came and these ideas of manhood that never quite connected, you know, um, the things that I thought, things that I felt that the ways I express myself, like, you know, our men could never, you know, and a lot of that, um, pressure to sort of fit that mold, um, came in the form of a lot of abuse in the home.
Speaker 6: A lot of, you know, homophobia, like intense, intense homophobia.
Speaker 6: Like, I would probably say I probably suffered worse homophobia in the home, you know, from my own mother than I got up in the streets, you know, which a lot of people hear that they're like, wow, you know, cause like it's like, it's usually, you know, you get a little bit bad at home, but it's never as bad as what you face outside.
Speaker 6: But no I feel like anything I've faced at home was worse than it is in the streets.
Speaker 6: So, um, you know, thinking about, you know, my heritage and my roots and then even having extended family that's, you know, mostly mostly Jamaican as well, which again, their man could never, we don't, you know, like, just this idea that, you know, this queerness that was kind of sort of budding and developing and it was kind of like, you know, in, in, in the background for a bit, I was always sort of peeking in like, OK, when, when could I come out, you know, when could I sort of, and it was always sort of this fear.
Speaker 6: And a lot of that fear came from like, you know, um, my background.
Speaker 6: So even, you know, being someone of African descent, like I can't really even embrace that because the idea of like, you know, that culture leaving home, like it's, it's scary to me.
Speaker 6: You know, it's, it's, it's more of like, you know, walk into like, you know, like, I don't know, I feel like even just embracing the idea of being an African person or, or even on the my extended family side, like embracing that Caribbean side, it's like, it all just feels like I'm just walking into my death.
Speaker 7: Um, queer family is really important.
Speaker 7: Um, when you, when your family of origin, when it takes a while for them to get with the program and, uh,
Vanessa Dunn: if they ever get there,
Speaker 7: If they ever get there! And it's really, really, really important.
Speaker 7: I think that's why we are all magnetized to big cities because you just feel like,"I'll find my people here.
Speaker 7: I'll find my people here." And hopefully you do.
Speaker 7: And some of them won't disappoint you and you'll go, and sometimes, you know, queer family breakups are more painful than relationship breakups, you know, because there's so much, so much intensity with how you come together and how you move through the city together through parties and social worlds.
Speaker 7: Um, but it's, um, it's, I think it's vital.
Speaker 7: I don't think I-, I wouldn't've survived without it.
Speaker 1: I did that when I, when I moved here, I moved alone.
Speaker 1: I didn't know anyone.
Speaker 1: I moved with a person who was my roommate, but we were not friends.
Speaker 1: We just figured out that we're moving to the same city.
Speaker 1: And, um, and then I was like, I just need to, nobody's gonna come try to be my friend.
Speaker 1: I need to go to every queer space in the city until I find them.
Speaker 1: And I, but then my chosen family became people that I met outside Cherry Bomb, like mostly.
Speaker 1: [ Laughter]
Speaker 7: I met a lot of people smoking.
I don't smoke but, my friend was smoking at that time, but I remember I heard an accent and I was like,"Mexican?" And she was like,"Yeah".
And I'm like,"Pizza?" It was like,"yeah." And she was like my best friend in the world, my best friend, I met her outside Cherry Bomb just cause we were Mexican and the next weekend we're like, all our plans.
Like we have our lifetime together now.
Speaker 1: And that was like most of my group of friends now it's people and it's going to sound weird, but I've kind of choose them.
Speaker 1: It was like you, you, you, you, you, you and that's it.
Speaker 1: And until we came, like I used to live on an apartment, at triple six Spadina, we had no furniture, but it was like gigantic space with no furniture.
Speaker 1: So I used to throw parties every Saturday when I was a student then my parents were still supporting me[ L aughter] Now there's no parties at all.
Speaker 1: But it was like I would just invite people and people and people, c ause I was also like Latinx family i s like, everybody's like, we all need to be together forever a nd ever a nd all the time until, my friends were like,"I think we're enough.
Speaker 1: Don't invite more people." And a part of m e was like,"no, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 1: We need to bring more people." And they were like,"we're a healthy amount." A nd I w as l ike, okay.
Speaker 1: But then it became like a t hing the core friends that we were there now we're still really good friends and w e're still, it's hard n ow c ause everybody works differently.
Speaker 1: And I was t he l ike the person who was keeping it together but then working in arts like you a ll know like weekends are like not a thing.
Speaker 1: So i t became harder then, but my friends are like literally every show I have, they will be there.
Speaker 1: This year I w on the emerging award f or Buddies and they were all there.
Speaker 1: And for me i t was like, it was more important for me to have them there than my parents.
Speaker 1: I'm g oing t o cry n ow, but it was like, it's this idea that became, like we all talk to each other how it's important that we are there for each other b ecause I w as, a ll my chosen families are- Oh my God, I'm dying- are immigrants.
Speaker 1: S o we like have this thing of like we need to stick together now.
Speaker 1: Like it's, we're more than friends.
Speaker 1: It's a family thing.
Speaker 1: And we talk about how when we don't have time a nd it's like, no, we need to make the time b ecause this is what's important.
Speaker 1: Like, u h, every Pride, I throw a party on the, u h, the day of the Dyke March.
Speaker 1: We can be like super busy, it's still g onna happen.
Speaker 1: Like we're g onna see each other and it, it's, it's not about like us getting drunk and partying.
Speaker 1: It's m ost like, it's our time to celebrate why we ran away from where we came from t o have this possibility of getting together.
Vanessa Dunn: That was from her November 17th live recording session entitled Home is where the Homo is: Explorations of Home.
Vanessa Dunn: The next recording is from the session Home for the Holi-gays: Stories of surviving the holidays.
Vanessa Dunn: We were joined by the incredible Jill Andrew, MPP for Toronto St Paul's, the riding in which the Oakwood Village Library is located.
Vanessa Dunn: Joining Jill was her partner Aisha as well as a larger group of participants to discuss home and the holidays.
Vanessa Dunn: Since we recorded this in early December, the holiday we hear most participants reference is Christmas.
Vanessa Dunn: But I think it's fair to say that regardless of the actual holiday or tradition being celebrated, many fears and struggles explored in the recording remain the same.
Speaker 8: I hate the holidays.
Speaker 8: Growing up.
Speaker 8: I, I, I loved them.
Speaker 8: I grew up in a, in a big family.
Speaker 8: I'm the oldest of four kids.
Speaker 8: Um, the whole outing stuff happened and the family that I knew, the extended cousins the occasions, Christmas, Thanksgiving, all those things totally lost them, ripped me apart.
Speaker 8: So it's really hard for me.
Speaker 8: Um, even now my can, just long story short, my dad didn't talk to me for 10 years.
Speaker 8: He only started talking to me maybe about two years ago.
Speaker 8: Um, so it's, it's, it's back and forth.
Speaker 8: Um, so it's, it's tough, you know, now that I'm allowed to be in the house during the holidays, um, it's difficult cause at times, you know, my partner, Jill, she can't come.
Speaker 8: So, you know, and I still miss the traditions that we have, no matter how complicated it, it's, it's what I know and it's what I grew up.
Speaker 8: So at times I am there, but then I'm thinking about Jill, right?
Speaker 8: So it's hard.
Speaker 8: Either it's, if I stay with Jill, then I feel guilty for not being with my family.
Speaker 8: And then if I'm with my family, I feel guilty because I can't bring Jill.
Speaker 8: So I feel like I'm just ripped in half so I, I hate the holidays.
Speaker 8: This holiday.
Speaker 8: I want to, I'm trying my best to see if I can start to create a new tradition without feeling the loss and grief of my, uh, my family.
Speaker 8: Um, so I don't know.
Speaker 8: I don't know how I'm going to do that.
Speaker 8: We have some friends that have said, you know, you can just come spend time with us.
Speaker 8: I think we can try.
Speaker 8: But it is going to hurt because I can't go home.
Speaker 8: Um, things are up and down in my family sometimes I'm accepted, other times like now, I'm not.
Speaker 8: Hmm.
Speaker 9: Yeah.
Speaker 9: Um, the first year that I brought my girlfriend home for Christmas, um, it, I definitely understand that kind of stress of, uh, being unsure how the dynamics are gonna work out.
Speaker 9: My family, um, are the definition of like crazy Chrismas people.
Speaker 9: We all love it.
Speaker 9: We're the kind of people that have decorations on everything and are playing Christmas music as soon as November finishes, like, next level.
Speaker 9: Um, and my parents have never, uh, and I've been very lucky in that my parents have never, um, had any issue with how I identify, um, or anything like that.
Speaker 9: But I have a very complicated relationship with my parents.
Speaker 9: Um, we're not very close.
Speaker 9: Um, we disagree on a lot of things and I think that breaking closeness is really prevalent on my end and something that they choose to ignore.
Speaker 9: And so at Christmas time it, um, there's a lot of emphasis on family and all being together and uh, feeling really close.
Speaker 9: And that's not something that I get super comfortable with.
Speaker 9: And so when I brought my girlfriend home, um, you know, it was bringing my best friend in the whole world and it felt scary because it was going to be sharing a very personal part of my life with them, which I'm sure they would love.
Speaker 9: And for me, having something that personal with them was scary and they loved her and it was great.
Speaker 9: But I spent the entire night in this sort of constant state of fight or flight because I'm thinking about what are they going to say?
Speaker 9: I'm thinking about what's she gonna say?
Speaker 9: I'm thinking about how can I basically put up bumpers around everything that's happening because I just want this to stay as smooth as possible.
Speaker 9: Um, and not that I necessarily think anything really horrible would happen, but I'm just so used to being kind of disappointed by familial interactions with them.
Speaker 9: It's interesting because it's not an issue with being queer, but it is an issue of that kind of disconnect and that emphasis on family and that emphasis on happiness that I do have because I love Christmas, but it creates this pretense of closeness that isn't there.
Speaker 9: And so it can feel very forced and kind of uncomfortable and unsure how to navigate that.
Speaker 7: Since you're on the, it gets better train.
Speaker 7: Um, I'm going to, uh, talk about Christmas, like an evolution because I'm, um, and it's funny cause I've got my little cousin here, so it's like a tale of three Christmases.
Speaker 7: Let's try it.
Speaker 7: I'm coming up with it as we go.
Speaker 7: But I was in the closet my whole twenties, um, through a couple of girlfriends, maybe three.
Speaker 7: And it was really stressful because some of them were out, some of them weren't, then it was like,"Are you gonna come to my parents'?" But you know,"How's it all gonna work?" And there's a lot of guilt and shame around the fact that I was like Brown and from a traditional family and, and I was convinced and I mean convinced I'm not a not intelligent person, that I was going to destroy my family.
Speaker 7: I was going to destroy my parents.
Speaker 7: I was going to destroy my mother and I could never come out as long as I live.
Speaker 7: Like there was no way it was going to happen.
Speaker 7: So I was just going to live a double life and that was going to be fine.
Speaker 7: And like my little cousins didn't know I had girlfriends, although I think this one figured it out, you know, like it was all just very like,"Oh, when you know, are you dating any boys?" And I'd be like,"I'm too busy" and that whole thing.
Speaker 7: So let's just pick a random Christmas in my twenties.
Speaker 7: And I'm secretly taking calls in the basement with my girlfriend and my parents are upstairs and the aunts and uncles are coming over and talking about boyfriends and it's so stressful and the anxiety and the whatever.
Speaker 7: Then like, let's fast forward seven years.
Speaker 7: And um, I had come out and it was the first time I was bringing a girl home for Christmas.
Speaker 7: And of course, so much anxiety.
Speaker 7: Um, and it was lovely.
Speaker 7: It was amazing.
Speaker 7: My, my dad was okay with it.
Speaker 7: My mom was, was a bit weird.
Speaker 7: It's weirder for me, I think than for anybody else, but like, I will never forget watching my girlfriend open gifts that my parents bought for her and thinking to myself.
Speaker 7: It was fucking inconceivable, inconceivable to me on any planet on any level than that day would ever come.
Speaker 7: And we're all like jingle jangle Christmas tree and she's opening gifts and you know, and I was just like, what is happening?
Speaker 7: And it was so surreal.
Speaker 7: It was that an out of body experience.
Speaker 7: I was like, this is inconceivable to me.
Speaker 7: And then fast forward a few more Christmases.
Speaker 7: And we spend Christmas together.
Speaker 7: Now her family and her dad and my dad are cousins and she- the same Christmas that she's talking about where she's totally anxious cause she's brought her girlfriend to Christmas for the first time.
Speaker 7: I had my girlfriend there and I'm thinking to myself,"Look at this big gay family we live in, I'm here with my girlfriend and she's here with her girlfriend and everything is amazing and whatever." And she's having a meltdown.
Speaker 7: So it's just about, it's about evolution and it's about time passing and, and how, you know, something that was literally inconceivable to like, I thought I would die in the closet.
Speaker 7: Um, and then fast forward 15 years and everything's different.
Speaker 7: So I don't know.
Speaker 7: I don't know, for whatever it's worth, like, um, those walls that we build and the thing and time, sometimes your family will surprise you in a good way.
Speaker 7: And I understand that there's a lot of privilege around that and there's a lot of, I have to give all the credit to my mom for making it all work.
Speaker 7: But, um, yeah, I honestly, it was a, it used to be Christmas used to be a really dark, scary, weird, awful stressful.
Speaker 7: It was when my double life was the most, um, loud, you know, when, uh, when both things were so loud that I was literally really living a double life.
Speaker 7: And now I am not, and I don't know, it's just, uh, my feelings around the holidays have totally changed cause I look forward to seeing her and I look forward to seeing the family and being myself.
Speaker 7: And if I have a partner, I bring them and it's, it's all good.
Speaker 7: So I dunno, it gets better.
Speaker 7: I don't know, whatever.
Speaker 7: Maybe it does for some people.
Jill Andrew: For some it does.
Jill Andrew: If I can just, I- I forgot to mention this that I came out to my mother on Christmas day.
Jill Andrew: It was on Christmas day.
Speaker 2: That was the present.
Jill Andrew: Right?
Jill Andrew: It was on Christmas day and it was hours before we went to see Dream Girls.
Jill Andrew: I remember I broke something because I was so nervous on Christmas because I love Christmas by then in hiding who I was.
Jill Andrew: It's like, okay, I'm not enjoying Christmas.
Jill Andrew: Then I broke something and then she said,"Jilly, what is wrong?
Jill Andrew: Like you just haven't been yourself." And then I just burst into tears and I told her on Christmas day, you know, and I mean, it wasn't good.
Jill Andrew: But we still went to the movies.
Jill Andrew: We still went to the movies weirdly, even though she was so upset and disappointed and brought out my grandmother's Bible and all that stuff.
Jill Andrew: But weirdly enough we were still able to to get to the movie theater.
Jill Andrew: I don't even know how we got to the movie theatre that day but we still went and then we barely talked for a year.
Jill Andrew: It's just kind of hi and bye.
Speaker 11: I'm curious like about new traditions for people.
Speaker 11: I know a lot of you talked about sort of looking for that.
Speaker 11: Does anyone have like things that they started doing recently that they've sort of felt as a new- queer or not but sort of their own take on celebrating?
Speaker 12: We changed things up in my family cause my mom passed away about 11 years ago and that was really...
Speaker 12: because my mom was such a Christmas, she was the Christmas everything.
Speaker 12: So, uh, we just currently we're forced into trying new things and uh, we, my, we kind of do like a, we call it like a, it's my dad and my sister and my sister is also gay.
Speaker 12: Uh, we do like a bad boys dinner and we- we have like something that my mom would never approve of.
Speaker 12: [Laughter] We actually do like crab.
Speaker 12: Really, really nice.
Speaker 12: Rich crab dinner.
Speaker 12: Seafood which is probably not traditional.
Speaker 12: You know, sometimes you're forced into new traditions out of painful things, but it can, the more you do it, the easier it kind of becomes and you start looking forward to these things, even though they may have come from something quite challenging.
Speaker 10: It's, it's funny how when you're sitting at a table with folks, so you start to remember things that are so relevant that you don't really like, you forget.
Speaker 10: So I feel like at our home because I, because, because I don't have that big family and I think also because of, you know, some of the conversations we've had about the family challenges on your end and sometimes we don't even have the Turkey.
Speaker 10: I forgot that.
Speaker 10: Like sometimes we have salmon and lobster and chicken and whatever and it's just a nice meal.
Speaker 10: So we try to move away sometimes from the symbolism, of like the signifiers of Christmas.
Speaker 10: There's years we haven't even had a tree, but what we do is we have friends over, like we'll always welcome friends over or sometimes we'll go to friends, so it just becomes another, you know, another opportunity to celebrate, love the friends that we have, those who have accepted us that want us the ones that we want.
Speaker 10: Yeah.
Speaker 10: I think, I mean my friends are my family in a way.
Speaker 10: They are actually my friends are my family and I guess in that case I do have the big, t he big family.
Speaker 10: W ow.
Speaker 10: I s ee t hat.
Speaker 10: Y eah.
Speaker 10: I guess I do have a big family.
Speaker 13: Like I said with Fudger House, I mean they're.
Speaker 13: Well I don't know every one of them there, b ut I feel that is my family.
Speaker 13: Yeah.
Speaker 8: That's, that's something that I've had to, I've, I've had to learn because my family was- my family was my family and my friends were my friends.
Speaker 8: Um, so I have started to realize that my friends that some, not all of them[ Laughter] S ome of my friends are my family.
Speaker 14: Thinks one thing I learned is I'm like, I shared my story about childhood but, kinda connected to your story of what you're feeling right now is that I had that feeling for like, it was like about 10 years ago where Christmas and I was like one day I was like, where am I gonna go?
Speaker 14: Not going back home.
Speaker 14: So where am I going to go?
Speaker 14: And then my aunt called me like six o'clock at night and she's like,"What are you doing at home?
Speaker 14: I mean your own home." And she said, get over here and now we have food and stuff.
Speaker 14: And so that was like 10 years ago and now it's kind of like I have to go there.
Speaker 14: She's always like,"what time are you coming over on Christmas Eve?" like.
Speaker 14: So I think talking about what you're talking about is like recreating or creating your own thing and you'll find, somebody said a while ago about feeling welcomed where you are, people looking forward to people accepting you.
Speaker 14: For me, that's what the holidays have become.
Speaker 14: And what I find it gives me health, like mental health, emotional health as opposed to what I kind of experienced with immediate family, which is"You're not there.
Speaker 14: We don't see you, we can't hear you.
Speaker 14: We don't want you." That's why I kind of like, I'm creating for myself, have had created for myself, kinda thing.
Speaker 2: For your emotional wellbeing.
Speaker 14: Absolutely.
Speaker 14: Yeah.
Speaker 10: You know, I think for myself, I, I mean I've always known how important my friends were to me in, in creating family.
Speaker 10: In that sense.
Speaker 10: I think what I'm, what I'm realizing is, is that I am surrounded by people who, who treat me well and I treat them well and we create Christmas throughout the year, you know, I mean, really having your friends over or going to their home and having a nice dinner or playing a game of cards or whatever the case might be.
Speaker 10: You know, I think that, and it ties into the capitalism that ties into the Christmas carols, which I personally love, but sometimes I find myself crying.
Speaker 10: And I think I, that's a whole other thing where it's like, maybe I'm crying for loss or, you know, what should have been, or could have been in terms of my mum and family.
Speaker 10: Um, but really you can create the holidays throughout the year and we don't need a calendar or a certain song or you know, certain wrapping paper to suggest that.
Speaker 10: So I think I'm, I'm taking out of this to remember that and, and, and to really realize how full my dining table really is throughout the year.
Speaker 10: And it's really not about quantity.
Speaker 10: It's about the quality of those people that are around my table.
Speaker 8: I forgot what I was gonna say.
Speaker 8: Um just, yeah, the idea of home has changed for home is, is Jill home is- home, is my partner.
Speaker 8: Um, you know, I think of, you know, being at being at the table or going home and after- when I'm allowed- after you know, 15 minutes like you're excited and you know, in my house I cook a lot with my mother, so I'm having fun, having fun.
Speaker 8: And then I realize my heart's not with me, you know?
Speaker 8: So it is, it's, you only know growing up- or all I knew was growing up and having and loving my family and realizing that things have changed and they're not fully accepting me and that I have to create my own traditions.
Speaker 8: I've been really, really they're so hard.
Speaker 8: I struggle with them all the time.
Speaker 8: Um, but I, you know, when, when LezLie said she goes where she's wanted, that really resonated with me to: surround yourself with people where you are when you're performing and it's not always easy.
Speaker 8: Um, and sometimes we have to make choices that are difficult.
Speaker 8: And I'm saying this because I will, I will have to.
Speaker 8: It's conversations I've had with my brother and my friends and I say, I, I'm just, I have, I'm just trying to figure out how to really create my own without feeling guilty and how- having to really be able to enjoy the love that I have and know that you know, that I'll, that I'll be okay.
Speaker 8: But it's just really important to surround yourself by people who will make you feel wanted.
Speaker 8: It's, it is tough.
Speaker 8: It is tough.
Speaker 8: Um, but I'm really grateful to be able to have a conversation like this.
Speaker 8: And to know that I'm, I'm not alone.
Speaker 8: Um, and I hope that it gives me the strength to make the choices that will make me feel loved and wanted over the holidays.
Vanessa Dunn: I hope you enjoyed the third episode of The Youth/ Elders Podcast.
Vanessa Dunn: Thank you to MPP, Jill Andrew and her partner Aisha for joining us.
Vanessa Dunn: This has been a production of Buddies in Bad Times Theatre, the world's largest and longest running queer theatre company.
Vanessa Dunn: We want to thank all of the amazing participants who were featured today and all those who came out to the live recording sessions last year and shared their lives with us.
Vanessa Dunn: I also want to thank our incredible YEP team, Daniel Carter, LeZlie Lee Kam and Aidan Morishita-Miki.
Vanessa Dunn: Special thanks to our sound engineer Jessie Tollefsen, who not only recorded and edited each episode but also created our theme song.
Vanessa Dunn: Thank you to artistic director, Evalyn Parry and the entire family at Buddies.
Vanessa Dunn: Special thanks to the Toronto Arts Council and Iana and her team at the Oakwood Village Library for their support.
Vanessa Dunn: And finally, thank you for tuning in and supporting The Youth/ Elders Podcast.
Vanessa Dunn: Please feel free to find us on social media as Buddies in Bad Times Theatre or@buddiesTO and online on the Buddies in Bad Times Theatre website, buddiesinbadtimes.com/yep- there you can find out about upcoming episodes, featured guests and links to episode notes and community resources.
Vanessa Dunn: You thought this podcast was recorded on the traditional lands of the Mississauga of the credit, the Anishnaabe, the Haudenosonee, and the Huron Wendat.
Vanessa Dunn: We'll be back in a bit with season two.
Vanessa Dunn: Until then, be well.