WEBVTT 00:00:00.179 --> 00:00:02.790 Hi, my name is Leslie Kim 00:00:03.450 --> 00:00:05.459 And hello, my name is Ty Sloan, 00:00:06.120 --> 00:00:16.829 And this is season two of the youth elders podcast, creating space for identities, histories, and perspectives across generations. 00:00:20.929 --> 00:00:26.510 This season takes a look at personal stories of coming out, navigating identity and finding home 00:00:27.379 --> 00:00:36.439 While also discussing the impact of institutional spaces and activist movements on the very places we find community. 00:00:37.039 --> 00:00:37.159 So 00:00:37.159 --> 00:00:45.890 This seasons episodes are curated and recorded by myself, Thai Sloan, Leslie Lee cam, Naomi bane, bear Bergman and Roma Spencer. 00:00:46.429 --> 00:00:51.140 Most of our recordings were made in Toronto on the traditional territories of the Anishinaabi. 00:00:51.409 --> 00:00:55.969 The Holden have shown a and the wind deck and treaty territory of the Mississaugas of the credit. 00:00:57.140 --> 00:01:08.329 This episode is hosted by us, Ty and Leslie and conversation with aria Evans and Kumari about living at the intersection of and mixed race. 00:01:08.599 --> 00:01:08.599 Think 00:01:09.769 --> 00:01:14.780 From struggling to find belonging, to creating our own spaces where we can be our full selves. 00:01:19.819 --> 00:01:24.260 So welcome to our two guests kamori and aria. 00:01:24.950 --> 00:01:28.219 And I'd like to ask you to introduce yourselves. 00:01:28.221 --> 00:01:30.109 So start with Kamari. 00:01:31.459 --> 00:01:34.549 Hi, thanks for having me on this podcast. 00:01:34.579 --> 00:01:36.560 It's nice to see all of your faces. 00:01:36.950 --> 00:01:37.849 I'm Kamari. 00:01:37.850 --> 00:01:44.030 I use they them pronouns and I am a human that does many things. 00:01:44.390 --> 00:01:48.469 I make food, I dance a little bit. 00:01:48.471 --> 00:02:09.080 I share dance, knowledge, theater, knowledge, um, and really kind of center my ways of being in the world around supporting primarily and trans BiPAP folks in, uh, living in their wholeness and healing and transforming themselves and each other, and really trying to open up possibilities for folks. 00:02:09.349 --> 00:02:18.830 My mother is a Sri Lankan she's Sinhala, um, born in Colombo, but moved, uh, through the Caribbean as a child. 00:02:18.889 --> 00:02:23.930 And my father is a Scottish English and Irish. 00:02:23.960 --> 00:02:28.099 And so that is the mix that I am moving in the world with. 00:02:28.610 --> 00:02:30.199 So that's, that's who I am. 00:02:30.860 --> 00:02:31.430 Great. 00:02:31.490 --> 00:02:33.740 Thanks Kamari and aria. 00:02:34.580 --> 00:02:35.569 My name is aria. 00:02:35.590 --> 00:02:37.400 You can use any pronoun for me. 00:02:37.729 --> 00:02:40.939 They, she, he, you can interchange pronouns. 00:02:40.941 --> 00:02:44.120 That's something that I love in space with me. 00:02:44.930 --> 00:02:47.780 I feel like I have many identities. 00:02:47.870 --> 00:02:52.009 I I'm a mover and a maker. 00:02:52.879 --> 00:03:00.009 I think that my identity has been the center of what drives me to make work in the, that I do. 00:03:00.370 --> 00:03:06.520 I have a company called political movement that makes dance theater from a social and political lens. 00:03:06.520 --> 00:03:15.069 And it's really been about creating space and giving space to those of us who have been underrepresented. 00:03:15.789 --> 00:03:19.000 I always say that I'm a lover. 00:03:19.030 --> 00:03:23.349 I think that love is at the center of all of the things that I do. 00:03:23.350 --> 00:03:25.330 And it's part of my values. 00:03:25.870 --> 00:03:35.409 And I love this idea of intergenerational conversations because somebody once told me, if you don't have a mentor, that's younger than you, you're doing something wrong. 00:03:35.411 --> 00:03:44.439 And I also think that you need mentors who are older than you and intergenerational knowledge sharing is something that means a lot to me. 00:03:44.680 --> 00:03:51.009 And just to preface, I am express, which makes sense as to why I'm here. 00:03:51.099 --> 00:03:57.520 My father is Afro indigenous meek, ma and black from Nova Scotia. 00:03:57.520 --> 00:03:58.810 And my mom is British. 00:03:59.340 --> 00:04:00.569 Thank you, aria. 00:04:01.229 --> 00:04:02.250 That was lovely. 00:04:02.280 --> 00:04:03.659 Thanks Kumari. 00:04:04.259 --> 00:04:08.039 And now I'd like tide to introduce themselves. 00:04:08.759 --> 00:04:12.419 Hello,[inaudible] my name is Ty, Ty Sloan. 00:04:12.420 --> 00:04:14.129 Some folks know me as tiger Lily. 00:04:14.550 --> 00:04:15.629 I'm an Anishinaabe. 00:04:16.680 --> 00:04:21.689 Tiny's Irish Greek, a multidisciplinary artist, mixed gender. 00:04:21.990 --> 00:04:31.350 Non-binary two-spirit hot mess, trying to bridge everyone that I can together, who is willing and consenting, who needs to prioritize more arrest. 00:04:32.699 --> 00:04:33.750 Oh, wow. 00:04:33.990 --> 00:04:35.279 You covered a lot there. 00:04:39.660 --> 00:04:42.629 And I'm, I'm turning 28 this year. 00:04:42.630 --> 00:04:43.439 I'm 27 00:04:44.399 --> 00:04:48.600 About like the, the different stages of our lives when we have different amounts of energy. 00:04:48.600 --> 00:04:58.350 And like, along that journey of like taking on and like needing rest you're on your Saturn return, you can wrestle, you need, 00:05:01.079 --> 00:05:14.250 I'm glad aria that you said that because at the beginning, before we started the conversation, I said, I took today off just to rest because it's been so hectic. 00:05:14.279 --> 00:05:17.250 So my name is Leslie Lee cam. 00:05:17.819 --> 00:05:24.000 And as you can tell from my lovely accent, I'm from Trinidad and I am mixed race. 00:05:24.060 --> 00:05:31.439 I am starting to see I'm multi-racial so I'm brown and I am Caribbean. 00:05:31.860 --> 00:05:33.629 So the Caribs and the arrow acts. 00:05:33.630 --> 00:05:42.329 So the indigenous peoples of the Caribbean, I am a Chinese, I am Indo. 00:05:42.839 --> 00:06:00.500 And because of my racial mixture in Trinidad and like callaloo, which is one of our national food dishes, and it's made up of many ingredients, I am also part white, but I don't usually say that because you can't see it. 00:06:00.529 --> 00:06:03.170 So what's the point. 00:06:03.860 --> 00:06:24.620 And I am a, and I am a connector, a storyteller, and a, I love them some doubles and dancing, and I'm finding more and more since COVID started, I need my rest in between numerous zoom meetings. 00:06:25.339 --> 00:06:29.750 And I'm really looking forward to this conversation about being mixed race. 00:06:30.170 --> 00:06:33.410 The conversation is not happening in Toronto. 00:06:34.009 --> 00:06:39.019 For many of us, we fit in everywhere, but we belong nowhere. 00:06:39.170 --> 00:06:40.790 So we were really tired. 00:06:40.790 --> 00:06:45.620 And I excited about having this particular conversation. 00:06:46.160 --> 00:06:49.160 Thanks again to Ren Kumari for being here. 00:06:49.720 --> 00:06:54.850 Leslie and I have been talking about being mixed race since we met in 2016. 00:06:54.879 --> 00:07:01.810 So this is I think the first formal time that a live in some level of permanence where we get to talk about it. 00:07:01.839 --> 00:07:09.100 And I also know that through my various relationships with Kumari and aria, we've also shared and talked about it. 00:07:09.490 --> 00:07:33.579 And so to bring kind of these private conversations, especially as the four of us being leaders and organizers in our respectful communities that we intersect and navigate it, that it's, I'm excited to finally share my voice and to hear all of your perspectives on something that I think is always so constant, but as often invisibilized by everyone else. 00:07:35.360 --> 00:07:35.360 Hmm. 00:07:36.279 --> 00:07:50.709 I remember when I came to Toronto and I was on the subway for the first time by myself and I was looking around and everybody was white and I'd come from a country that's very, very racially diverse. 00:07:50.920 --> 00:07:52.870 Trinidad is not to beagle. 00:07:53.529 --> 00:07:59.470 And I remember this white woman looking at me and smiling, and then she came and she sat next to me. 00:08:00.069 --> 00:08:04.300 And the first thing she said to me was, are you from Burma? 00:08:05.319 --> 00:08:09.009 And luckily I knew where I was and I said, no. 00:08:09.189 --> 00:08:11.769 And she says, oh, you must be from Jamaica. 00:08:12.490 --> 00:08:18.430 I can tell from your accent, because back then people didn't know the Trinidad existed. 00:08:18.430 --> 00:08:32.289 They only knew about Jamaica and I've been through so many different ways of being identified racially, like the whole spectrum of brown and now going into black. 00:08:32.350 --> 00:08:38.379 So yeah, I always lead with my mixture cause that's what people see. 00:08:39.789 --> 00:08:51.279 I just want to say that I love, but you, well, maybe not left is the right term, but I was really intrigued by what you said about like your whiteness and you not talking about it because you can't see it. 00:08:51.610 --> 00:08:58.590 And this idea of like when we're white passing and we're not passing the four of us speaking, none of us are white passing. 00:08:58.799 --> 00:09:00.509 Some of us may be, have that heritage. 00:09:00.600 --> 00:09:07.379 And some of us don't have never thought about not saying part of my identity because you don't see it anyways. 00:09:08.039 --> 00:09:09.419 I'm sure we'll talk about that. 00:09:09.421 --> 00:09:34.110 But it just like sparked a little bit of me and so interesting because it was what people were seeing that caused me to start naming what I was when I was introducing myself or making an application, be assumptions that people were making about my history, whether they were right or wrong, uh, never felt like it was how I wanted to be perceived saying what I am. 00:09:34.110 --> 00:09:38.070 It felt like a way to avoid all of those people being like, are you this? 00:09:38.429 --> 00:09:39.090 Yes. 00:09:40.409 --> 00:09:41.070 I agree. 00:09:41.549 --> 00:09:41.549 Aria. 00:09:42.230 --> 00:09:46.220 I think it's interesting that you mentioned that because I've only been in Toronto for five years. 00:09:46.221 --> 00:09:51.379 I named that because before I was in Toronto, I didn't really talk about being strays. 00:09:51.889 --> 00:10:10.159 I grew up in Alberta though in my like late teens and early twenties, I saw, I saw a mass migration of both like newcomer folks and other folks from bigger metropolis is figuring out their relationship with the oil field and wanting to make an income in that way in Alberta. 00:10:10.700 --> 00:10:18.409 But the thing that I always navigated is the second or the third question that people often would ask me is what's your background? 00:10:18.889 --> 00:10:21.470 And immediately it made me feel other heads. 00:10:22.009 --> 00:10:30.799 I remember the first conversation I kind of had with you, Leslie, and with Laila in the first iteration of the youth elders project, when it was a conversation. 00:10:31.399 --> 00:10:34.100 I remember you both being like, well, you can identify all of them. 00:10:36.379 --> 00:10:41.120 Are you sure that there are people watching me? 00:10:41.149 --> 00:10:56.600 There's like surveilled community members from my perspective backgrounds who are, I've done a quite me on them, but I remember having both you and Lila, who's a magma x-rays precedent be like, identify all of them, all parts of you. 00:10:58.789 --> 00:11:10.039 I'm so curious to know, like the reaction that you folks hold when you do bring in all parts of your, when you get to name it or when it gets confronted with you. 00:11:10.580 --> 00:11:28.879 I think for me, it's just the constant, trying to overcome the imposter syndrome of being enough, that if I'm in a place that is only looking at one part of my identity, I instantly feel like I don't belong there. 00:11:29.120 --> 00:11:42.620 And I think about like, how do we create spaces where we can be multi-racial multi-cultural that we can celebrate all of the parts of ourselves and to not have it feel like a fractured identity. 00:11:42.919 --> 00:12:02.799 I remember when I landed on the term Afro indigenous, and I was like, this describes both of the identities of my father in one word and how just like having one word to be able to talk about me felt easier, but why is that? 00:12:03.179 --> 00:12:16.200 Yeah, I think about, I think about that a lot and this like wholeness or separation, various communities that I've been involved with and a part of in the city are very identity based. 00:12:16.740 --> 00:12:31.980 And that is, I think, a part of this culture shift of, of shifting out of solely identity based spaces, because I think they are tricky to navigate or can be tricky to navigate belonging in. 00:12:32.490 --> 00:12:52.169 And for me, I struggle a lot with language and naming myself, most of the identities that I would say that I am, uh, beyond my mixed race identities and my mixed race identities, all feel like they're not actually in alignment with how I feel. 00:12:52.200 --> 00:12:58.169 They feel like they're reaching to name something so that I can attempt to find connection. 00:12:58.289 --> 00:13:03.450 And so for me, I know that there are way more complexities within that naming. 00:13:03.929 --> 00:13:13.379 So sometimes I'll say all the things I could give you a giant book of identities that I hold, but I'm a human in front of you. 00:13:13.380 --> 00:13:17.220 And so how are you seeing me in all of those things? 00:13:17.221 --> 00:13:20.129 How are you giving space for all of those things to exist? 00:13:20.639 --> 00:13:40.440 And so for me, in terms of belonging, that means that I mostly just try to belong to myself and try to find belonging in energetic connections with other humans and live more in terms of that when I segment myself off, that's when I start to feel like I don't belong, 00:13:41.200 --> 00:13:44.370 Good point, uh, Kumari and aria. 00:13:44.429 --> 00:13:56.580 It's interesting because when I'm in Trinidad, I'm a callaloo, but here in Canada, you're constantly being asked, you know, what is your identity? 00:13:56.610 --> 00:13:59.190 When you look a certain way, are you from here? 00:13:59.220 --> 00:14:00.210 Are you from there? 00:14:00.570 --> 00:14:07.019 So I really liked my callaloo identity and just a quick story about belonging. 00:14:07.049 --> 00:14:21.029 I started a mixed race, lesbian, uh, chat group back in the eighties because I couldn't find anybody else who was mixed race like me and the irony of the whole thing. 00:14:21.030 --> 00:14:22.289 There were about eight of us. 00:14:22.291 --> 00:14:29.940 And the irony was that of the eight, seven had one white parent and one parent of color. 00:14:30.450 --> 00:14:37.710 And they ended up telling me that I didn't belong to the group because both my parents were mixed race. 00:14:38.669 --> 00:14:51.289 So even in terms of belonging and rejection, you know, we do it to ourselves when we are mixed race, how, how do we treat each other? 00:14:51.291 --> 00:14:55.340 And how do we take care of each other when we are mixed race? 00:14:55.341 --> 00:14:59.480 That's something that I have been looking for and so forth. 00:15:00.669 --> 00:15:00.669 Ty, 00:15:01.720 --> 00:15:06.009 I think when you say, how do we take care of each other? 00:15:06.700 --> 00:15:10.419 I'm going to say a bold generalization and acknowledge that I'm doing. 00:15:10.421 --> 00:15:25.690 So I don't believe anyone that I've encountered, whether they're white or black or indigenous or a person of color or a mixed race of those, I don't believe any of them consider care and asking what my background is. 00:15:26.200 --> 00:15:34.149 I don't think their thought processes is like, I wonder if this person has a complex being, can I hold everything that they're about to offer? 00:15:34.899 --> 00:15:55.149 And I say that because I'm beginning to lean into not identifying racially and identifying my queerness, mostly because most of my work and art really centers around it and the community in this kind of broad way that I've experienced all of the beautiful links that I've met. 00:15:56.049 --> 00:15:59.230 Um, I can bring my identity and they can go cool. 00:15:59.350 --> 00:16:20.590 But then when it comes to specific ethnic groups or racial communities, marginalized communities, it's almost like it almost becomes like an interrogation that kind of starts off with, well, how can you be all of it that leads into me having to explain my whole life story and trauma experience. 00:16:20.679 --> 00:16:22.240 And then everyone goes, whoa. 00:16:23.350 --> 00:16:29.019 And I find that a lot of people don't feel settled with the explanation. 00:16:29.020 --> 00:16:29.769 I give them 00:16:30.970 --> 00:16:40.059 Certain circles have an understanding of gender inspect and sexuality to be this like beautiful spectrum and that you can choose to identify however you want. 00:16:40.061 --> 00:16:53.230 But because of the way that the history of this nation has been colonized, we have like a different set of expectations about the way that we look and talking about care. 00:16:53.230 --> 00:16:57.429 And how do we extend care inside of asking people what their cultural background is? 00:16:57.431 --> 00:17:05.410 It would be interesting to actually draw from like community welcoming practices. 00:17:05.589 --> 00:17:06.849 Maybe that's the answer 00:17:08.109 --> 00:17:10.420 We need to start that happening. 00:17:10.599 --> 00:17:10.599 Yeah. 00:17:10.960 --> 00:17:24.609 I appreciate you aria, naming this nation built on colonization because I think this piece about questioning racial identity and it also has to do with how much of like an aesthetic based society we are. 00:17:24.670 --> 00:17:27.039 We're not asking questions necessarily. 00:17:27.040 --> 00:17:29.470 We're making judgements based on face value. 00:17:29.980 --> 00:17:35.230 Part of that violent history is that we need to know who our people are. 00:17:35.829 --> 00:17:41.829 And I try and remind myself when I'm having conversations with folks, what is the connection here? 00:17:42.549 --> 00:17:44.740 How can we relate to each other? 00:17:44.950 --> 00:17:50.880 And that doesn't mean that it's any less microaggression or any less to experience that. 00:17:51.390 --> 00:18:03.240 But I find that that is my kind of like coping mechanism for those moments to be like, oh, I get it depending on my answer and who you are like that could be seen as threatening. 00:18:03.509 --> 00:18:12.630 And so then where is the opportunity for me to open up conversation so that we can see each other in a, in a different way, if that's even possible. 00:18:13.640 --> 00:18:14.809 That's so true. 00:18:14.810 --> 00:18:23.930 I like what both of you have said about the colonizing and we are the results of colonization racially. 00:18:24.470 --> 00:18:29.299 And that's one of the things I talk about when I do my workshops and presentations. 00:18:29.779 --> 00:18:34.970 The reason you see this in front of you is a result of colonization. 00:18:35.539 --> 00:18:45.259 So when I use myself as a result of colonization, people say, well, aren't we here to talk about how seniors are being impacted? 00:18:45.740 --> 00:18:51.140 And I say, yeah, well, I'm one of those seniors who has been impacted by called ization. 00:18:51.440 --> 00:19:00.319 And that's why I look this way when they start questioning, you know, and you said face value, no pun intended, but it's true. 00:19:00.710 --> 00:19:02.299 It is the face value. 00:19:02.660 --> 00:19:06.349 So we've covered a lot about belonging rejecting. 00:19:06.539 --> 00:19:10.490 What does it mean to be mixed race we wanted to touch on? 00:19:10.490 --> 00:19:16.400 What do you think are some of the barriers or access to being mixed race? 00:19:18.019 --> 00:19:31.700 This can look like in life, it's gonna look like finding work is, can look like political identities, institutions, activism, which I know are all areas that newly navigate our different toes into. 00:19:32.740 --> 00:19:42.579 I, I really struggled with this question and I'm just going to share a bit about like, why I struggled with this question and why I'm still struggling with this question. 00:19:43.059 --> 00:19:49.150 And it has a lot to do with what we were talking about earlier in terms of having whiteness as part of our mixes. 00:19:49.960 --> 00:20:06.279 For me, I would say growing up, particularly as a child, like a lot of my Sri Lankan connections and Sinhala connections were erased in my, uh, immediate familial household. 00:20:06.700 --> 00:20:13.690 And so for me, I actually feel like I was steeped in ending courage within whiteness. 00:20:13.779 --> 00:20:19.210 I feel like I experienced barriers based on what I look like. 00:20:19.869 --> 00:20:21.910 I read as a brown person. 00:20:22.180 --> 00:20:25.240 That means that people don't think that I'm white ever. 00:20:25.660 --> 00:20:36.309 So I have this like weird access to white modalities of thinking and moving through the world, but actually do that as a brown person. 00:20:36.700 --> 00:20:39.339 And that's really confusing. 00:20:39.880 --> 00:20:48.759 I struggle with this because I don't feel like there are barriers specifically linked to my mixed race identities that I've experienced. 00:20:49.119 --> 00:20:53.440 I feel like I, I grew up knowing some of the tools to navigate that. 00:20:53.559 --> 00:21:07.180 That is to me like an internal barrier, I guess, in, in navigating all of these different things that you've named Ty, because I I'm so conscious and aware of that in how I move. 00:21:07.181 --> 00:21:23.589 And so that's why I also see myself more as a, a supporter, like make things happen, person because I try and utilize that access and knowledge as opposed to take up physical space in that whether or not that's successful. 00:21:23.590 --> 00:21:28.029 That's up to humans that are in my life and humans that interact with me. 00:21:28.030 --> 00:21:29.829 I'd love to know about that more. 00:21:30.099 --> 00:21:32.500 I think those are, those are my immediate reactions. 00:21:32.500 --> 00:21:37.990 And I would love to hear also like what this question brings up for other folks and respond to that too. 00:21:39.660 --> 00:21:39.869 Yeah. 00:21:40.289 --> 00:21:40.289 Kamari. 00:21:40.290 --> 00:21:51.990 What you said really resonates with me because I'm in a similar position where I grew up with a white single mom and I am not white passing. 00:21:52.019 --> 00:22:09.839 I also look like a brown person walking through the world and have received the racism of what that means throughout my life and the microaggressions to not belonging, to the people that are raising you. 00:22:10.769 --> 00:22:11.730 And it's interesting. 00:22:11.849 --> 00:22:25.470 The idea of barriers I think are more internal than they are external because my morals conflict sometimes around knowing that I have whiteness in me. 00:22:25.529 --> 00:22:36.480 And if I'm in a situation where I'm only being seen as a person of color, I feel like somebody else should be speaking. 00:22:36.630 --> 00:23:19.890 That is something that I think holds me back a lot, the fear to not want to like grow and shine and take up a lot of space because I know that I have privilege inside of how I grow up and like the making of me, I think because there is that familiarity in that awareness of whiteness and the comfort around it, because it is a part of my family that institutions can like, look at you and say like, oh, you can be a bridge for us taking on that role is emotionally exhausting. 00:23:19.950 --> 00:23:23.759 It feels like I always get placed there. 00:23:23.970 --> 00:23:25.740 That is an interesting 00:23:27.059 --> 00:23:27.859 Barrier. 00:23:28.920 --> 00:23:29.640 Thank you. 00:23:29.641 --> 00:23:30.150 Thank you. 00:23:30.151 --> 00:23:33.930 Both navigate barriers. 00:23:35.220 --> 00:23:59.720 Um, well one is, uh, the first things, uh, in retrospect, and this only happened to me a couple of years ago when we started talking about shadism colorism growing up in Trinidad, even though we were so, uh, racially diverse, it's still played out in terms of the color of your skin and your background. 00:23:59.721 --> 00:24:02.119 So what kind of money you came from? 00:24:02.900 --> 00:24:11.029 So I went to a private school because I got a scholarship and it was run by white Irish nuns. 00:24:11.119 --> 00:24:21.980 And they rarely wreak havoc on you when you are not white, but if you were Chinese, they will, they didn't treat you as badly. 00:24:21.980 --> 00:24:32.809 If you were brown, you still, you know, you were treated badly and you were in deep do do, if you were black, the worst treated with those students. 00:24:32.810 --> 00:24:39.650 And then when I came here, the same thing, so that playing out, but I didn't know what it was until I was much older. 00:24:40.220 --> 00:24:48.140 And I heard the terms when we talk about intersectionality, I check off so many boxes. 00:24:48.141 --> 00:24:49.880 Now that I'm retired. 00:24:49.881 --> 00:24:56.240 And even prior to being retired, they wanted me because I looked good for the organization. 00:24:56.480 --> 00:25:01.579 Cause I worked for many nonprofit organizations before I retired. 00:25:01.580 --> 00:25:09.369 And so funders are doing this and we are playing into that game of, oh yeah, you look a certain way. 00:25:09.390 --> 00:25:15.710 So you check off all these boxes, but I just wanted to bring us back briefly. 00:25:15.711 --> 00:25:21.619 When you talked about having this white part of your background in terms of your race. 00:25:21.621 --> 00:25:27.950 My struggle right now is one of my brothers is married to a white Irish woman. 00:25:28.670 --> 00:25:36.170 And I have three nephews who are all young adults, they're in their twenties and they're all white passing. 00:25:37.339 --> 00:25:44.960 And I'm constantly having to check them in terms of their privilege, how they are treating people of color. 00:25:46.400 --> 00:25:50.000 And I have to keep saying, have you seen your father recently? 00:25:50.900 --> 00:25:53.210 You need to look at where you're coming from. 00:25:53.211 --> 00:26:10.130 So in terms of being mixed race is always so important for me to look at my access versus where I face a barrier, because I have more access than barriers than black and indigenous people in my lives. 00:26:10.131 --> 00:26:15.980 And when I go out with my black and indigenous friends, I see how that privilege plays out. 00:26:17.059 --> 00:26:23.990 And I always have to make sure that I am letting people know you can't do this. 00:26:23.990 --> 00:26:24.259 I am. 00:26:24.279 --> 00:26:26.150 I'm calling people accountable. 00:26:27.529 --> 00:26:31.130 So sometimes it's like work being mixed rates. 00:26:32.269 --> 00:26:36.170 You're always having to hold people accountable. 00:26:38.779 --> 00:26:39.710 What about Ty? 00:26:39.711 --> 00:26:40.549 What about you 00:26:42.839 --> 00:26:44.730 Contentious opinion about this? 00:26:48.900 --> 00:26:54.980 [inaudible] Um, I'm going to acknowledge and name, item some privilege. 00:26:55.069 --> 00:26:58.670 I am an adoptee who was raised in white culture. 00:26:59.210 --> 00:27:04.190 I'm on a long reclamation journey with both my Chinese and my Adish non-paid background. 00:27:04.940 --> 00:27:12.559 And I always want to ensure that I can center folks who are more marginalized than me and who are, are, are skin than me. 00:27:12.920 --> 00:27:31.309 So I acknowledge all of that and I believe both can see that in the work and the community work that I do, that I'm constantly on that journey, but I am struggling all of the time to reconcile the violence that I experienced from racialized people. 00:27:31.910 --> 00:27:49.759 I experienced violence from white folks, but I want to speak into the violence that I feel that indigenous folks and east Asian cause those are my, those are my communities that come from, uh, they're immense and intentional ways of trying to erase my identity. 00:27:50.359 --> 00:28:12.559 That is not the one that they Harold from and the, the actions, which I believe to be a little neo-colonial in simultaneously wanting to blame my lack of knowledge or my lack of cultural understanding on me. 00:28:12.560 --> 00:28:14.390 And then also wanting to hold me accountable. 00:28:14.391 --> 00:28:18.799 It's catch up where I have to give back financially. 00:28:18.920 --> 00:28:23.599 So I do and catch up in a way where I provide more space for other people. 00:28:23.869 --> 00:28:34.880 And I do, uh, and where I continue to unpack all of the equity and inclusion practices before I'm, before I feel validated to be in a room. 00:28:35.720 --> 00:28:49.609 I'm glad we're talking about intersectionality now, because the first time I experienced this in a, in a really direct way, I was hired by a mixed race person to BB indigenous program producer for paprika theater festival. 00:28:50.420 --> 00:29:01.640 And I did the job and my job was to cure rate like a cabaret and a panel series that fit around what the indigenous programs through that festival was already doing. 00:29:02.269 --> 00:29:14.240 So the festival had indigenous mentors who grew up on resonant culture and it had students learning and developing who grew up in resonant culture. 00:29:14.660 --> 00:29:16.880 They hired me because I bridged communities. 00:29:16.881 --> 00:29:25.279 I feel like that's actually what I'm Hey, that's one of my places that I can find rest in all aspects of my identities, but it is a lot of work. 00:29:25.819 --> 00:29:35.630 This person took note of that and was like, you can curate a new you're really thought provoking when it comes to asking people questions, can you facilitate this thing? 00:29:36.170 --> 00:29:39.769 And true, say it was like my first time curating. 00:29:40.160 --> 00:29:43.509 I don't know very much this, but I will connect as I do. 00:29:44.170 --> 00:29:47.859 And I connected a fantastic array of artists. 00:29:47.920 --> 00:29:49.089 I brought in Raven wings. 00:29:49.090 --> 00:29:50.980 I brought in Jay Northcott. 00:29:50.980 --> 00:29:57.549 I brought in Sophie dough and Brendan Chandler and a bunch of other brilliant indigenous folks. 00:29:57.579 --> 00:30:00.849 Most of those folks are mixed race in and of themselves. 00:30:01.539 --> 00:30:08.559 And then a couple months later, this indigenous artists reached out to me and was like, why are you producing this thing? 00:30:09.309 --> 00:30:11.680 What was wild to me is that it already had happened. 00:30:11.769 --> 00:30:15.849 Like it had already had existed, but they in their minds thought that it was in the midst of happened. 00:30:16.000 --> 00:30:18.519 And they were calling in to step down. 00:30:19.269 --> 00:30:35.200 There is a lot of conversations around folks right now in the indigenous communities that are talking about folks who are claiming space or authority or power or financial access and abusing it when they're not claimed by a nation. 00:30:35.890 --> 00:30:41.289 So I kind of preface my responses to them by being like, I have a feeling that this is where this is living. 00:30:41.710 --> 00:30:43.630 I'm going to let you know what I was doing. 00:30:45.130 --> 00:30:47.920 And, and they, they were very violent. 00:30:48.009 --> 00:30:52.509 They erased all of my identity and my two-spirit identity. 00:30:52.510 --> 00:30:57.130 And to name, I was named two-spirit by Laila pine, who was, who's an indigenous elder. 00:30:57.131 --> 00:31:12.099 So this one person whose nation I come from there also Anish, um, uh, refuted my whole identity and said I had more work to do before I was allowed to hold that kind of position. 00:31:13.210 --> 00:31:27.400 And, and I respect that part of my learning journey is to listen to those who have perhaps been more harmed than I have with being indigenous, um, or being marginalized and racialized. 00:31:27.880 --> 00:31:50.019 But I just, I felt so angry and I felt like their behavior was simultaneously a justifiable, Collin, that at the time I was really emotional about, but now, and retroactively I could respect, but I also believe that it's a little bit of a colonizer thing to gate keep people's identities. 00:31:50.020 --> 00:32:05.559 And the reason why I stayed this is because if we consider colonization and the foster care system and the way that the Canadian government has turned up, Paul apart, um, pull apart indigenous folks from their community. 00:32:05.859 --> 00:32:09.099 I am essentially a by-product of colonization. 00:32:09.460 --> 00:32:13.029 I'm a success to it because I was divorced from it. 00:32:13.359 --> 00:32:14.740 I struggled to find it. 00:32:15.130 --> 00:32:21.460 I navigate intense amount of violence harm and, and responsibility now to reclaim it and refined it. 00:32:21.910 --> 00:32:42.410 And in that moment, I experienced such a plethora of internal barriers already, but then to have someone who I also, at one point in time saw as a mentor erased me and, and me not having any of the resources to navigate that, that justified fragility, but fragility, I was just like, I don't even want to be indigenous. 00:32:42.799 --> 00:32:45.109 And I stayed to a lot of my indigenous kid. 00:32:45.200 --> 00:32:57.859 I'm very proud to be indigenous, but under no circumstances would I ever want to come from a marginalized identity that has existed and lived, and it's still actively healing from such intense trauma. 00:32:58.940 --> 00:33:11.359 And so I say that both as an east Asian and then as, as a digital person, because whenever I enter these spaces, I get confronted by community and by other artists with this kind of example, in various macro and micro doses. 00:33:11.900 --> 00:33:25.279 But it makes me mad because the only thing I'm trying to do is make space for people and explain my list, experience and be supported because the fact of the matter is like all of us, I'm a brown person. 00:33:25.339 --> 00:33:27.769 I don't have the privileges of being white. 00:33:28.099 --> 00:33:33.410 And so I was never given the same level of support that other folks did. 00:33:33.411 --> 00:33:45.980 And so now that government and grants new bodies live in priority groups, I'm like, well, maybe as I'm learning, reclaiming and making space, I can also affirm my identity. 00:33:46.279 --> 00:33:53.359 And I'm being shown by a portion of the communities that I intersect that I'm not allowed to, or that I should not be. 00:33:53.740 --> 00:33:53.920 I'm 00:33:53.920 --> 00:33:54.730 Really sorry. 00:33:54.730 --> 00:33:58.750 That happened to your tie where there's such a struggle. 00:33:59.470 --> 00:33:59.859 Yeah. 00:33:59.920 --> 00:34:01.089 Thanks for sharing. 00:34:01.210 --> 00:34:13.869 I feel like that also is supporting me, reframing the question for myself because when I think about barriers and access, I think way more structurally than Intercommunity based. 00:34:14.500 --> 00:34:14.800 Yeah. 00:34:14.829 --> 00:34:18.429 I I've experienced similar questioning. 00:34:18.431 --> 00:34:24.369 And to me, I think there's a real piece in there around folks being able to be seen in their wholeness. 00:34:24.849 --> 00:34:33.940 I'm trying to recall who said this, but I, I cannot recall in this moment and actually now I'm like, maybe it was you, Leslie. 00:34:35.860 --> 00:34:40.000 We were talking about like percentages, I'm this percentage. 00:34:40.001 --> 00:34:43.420 And in the conversation, it was just like, no, you're not a percentage. 00:34:43.420 --> 00:34:52.630 You are that, that is work that we all need to do, like mixed race folks and non mixed race hosts because it has to do with so many portions of our identity. 00:34:52.630 --> 00:35:09.820 Like we have to be able to see people in multiplicity and complexity and the violence that you're experiencing tie around that it is a direct relationship to someone wanting to separate you out and wanting to not see the fullness of each of those things. 00:35:10.239 --> 00:35:16.989 And it's really frustrating if you're like constantly in this battle of thinking, am I enough of this thing? 00:35:16.990 --> 00:35:18.099 It completes so much 00:35:20.619 --> 00:35:21.159 Aria. 00:35:21.190 --> 00:35:23.469 Did you want to try me? 00:35:24.010 --> 00:35:40.949 I was just going to say that that experience loops back around to how our nation has been shaped and how the success of the colonial state is that we don't acknowledge who we are. 00:35:40.951 --> 00:36:09.750 So I think that in reclaiming all of the identities that make up who we are naming all of those ancestors and this idea of like percentages, somebody wants to talk to me about, if you take your genealogy of like grandparents, grandparents, grandparents, grandparents, in a room, if you actually visualize them as human beings like that, as a real person, they're beside you, they're standing there in their body, in their blood and they're flashed in their ancestry. 00:36:09.780 --> 00:36:21.869 But conversations around accepting mixed race identity are also tied to the hurt that has happened to this land. 00:36:21.871 --> 00:36:33.480 I can see why that person might be angry, but then I'm also like your anger is doing the thing that we're trying to stop allowing the colonial state to continue to exist. 00:36:35.900 --> 00:36:44.480 And it scares me a little bit when that kind of policing happens because we're already dealing with that. 00:36:44.989 --> 00:36:47.539 And then we start doing it to each other. 00:36:48.800 --> 00:37:13.550 And that's why for me, it always comes back to kindness and caring that we have to be so aware that, you know, it's, it's hard, enough being one, nobody is truly one race, but when you have all these other layers of mixtures, we really need to be mindful, especially now during COVID, this way of living is going to continue. 00:37:13.550 --> 00:37:17.090 It's not going to go away simply because we have vaccines. 00:37:17.840 --> 00:37:30.889 So how do we move forward in terms of our many, many identities and complexities and complex ways of living and being in the womb 00:37:33.650 --> 00:37:37.369 Existing in the whole world, the whole like 7 billion of us. 00:37:39.079 --> 00:37:43.849 One of the things we already talk about is what is it like being mixed race and? 00:37:52.670 --> 00:38:08.869 I mean, why it's interesting, cause it makes me think back to what you said about how naming yourself inside of a community feels like you're actually being accepted for the mossy, multifaceted human being that you are. 00:38:09.380 --> 00:38:17.119 And I try to look at myself as finding all of the ways that I can celebrate myself to me. 00:38:17.989 --> 00:38:27.530 Queerness is beautiful and I want to lean into the parts of myself that don't fit into a binary. 00:38:27.800 --> 00:38:30.260 My mixed race identity is not a binary. 00:38:30.590 --> 00:38:35.000 My gender is not a binary and my sexuality is not a binary. 00:38:35.019 --> 00:38:48.639 So being gender nonconforming and being and being mixed race to me all make sense and line up for me in a way that I want to celebrate, but I can look at the other side of it too. 00:38:48.641 --> 00:38:50.559 I just like right now, don't want to, 00:38:53.909 --> 00:38:56.730 I conceptualize it very similarly. 00:38:56.731 --> 00:39:15.179 And, um, I'm now so curious if all of us are kind of in this place for me, I was confronted with racial identity as a young age, I would say my like identity and non binary gender spectrum identity came later. 00:39:15.389 --> 00:39:17.849 They all feel like they live on a spectrum to me. 00:39:18.150 --> 00:39:18.630 Ooh. 00:39:18.659 --> 00:39:26.519 One of the barriers in myself and in communities that I've experienced a lot is living in dichotomies. 00:39:27.420 --> 00:39:40.260 And for me, I've always, as far as my memory can exceed back into my embodied lived experience, I always knew that there was more than two things. 00:39:40.469 --> 00:39:42.269 Like I always knew there was a spectrum. 00:39:42.271 --> 00:39:48.630 And so that really informs how I move in spaces and how I move in the world. 00:39:48.659 --> 00:39:51.210 There's always more, there's always more complexity. 00:39:51.719 --> 00:39:52.650 I celebrate that. 00:39:52.679 --> 00:39:58.980 I love that it, that framing also allows me to see the spectrums and magic and other people. 00:39:59.400 --> 00:40:09.690 And in my many communities, I think one of the things that I will name still lives in spaces is racism and colonization. 00:40:09.690 --> 00:40:15.239 And those aspects of being mixed race still come up in spaces. 00:40:15.599 --> 00:40:21.269 This questioning of like not enoughness around identity, they'll comes up in spaces. 00:40:21.300 --> 00:40:22.739 They're not void of that. 00:40:23.099 --> 00:40:31.889 I feel like there is, there is more space specifically within spaces and folks that have spectrum understandings of the world. 00:40:32.550 --> 00:40:39.690 And those are kind of where I lean because there are definitely spaces and folks that do not have spectrum identities of the world. 00:40:40.530 --> 00:40:46.079 And yeah, that, that doesn't jive great for me celebrating myself and spectrum identities. 00:40:47.639 --> 00:40:48.630 Thanks, Kumari. 00:40:48.630 --> 00:40:49.559 I like that. 00:40:49.561 --> 00:40:53.099 Spectrum understandings and identities. 00:40:54.329 --> 00:41:03.360 We just, philosophized a master's thesis this podcast. 00:41:07.760 --> 00:41:07.760 Wow. 00:41:07.829 --> 00:41:11.099 This has been a really, really rich conversation. 00:41:12.570 --> 00:41:13.190 Yeah. 00:41:13.230 --> 00:41:30.599 I could talk about this for a lifetime and I feel like I will be, so why not do it as part of a podcast and continue to find links between us and like a brighter future for ourselves and those coming up behind us and who are ahead of us as well. 00:41:31.630 --> 00:41:31.630 Great. 00:41:31.800 --> 00:41:38.480 And possibilities is another part costs that people can tune into in terms of the subject. 00:41:38.510 --> 00:41:44.269 And are there any other little nuggets that anybody would like to add before we wrap up? 00:41:45.190 --> 00:41:51.699 I would love to one say, thank you for holding this space and doing this podcast. 00:41:52.090 --> 00:42:08.139 I think this particular conversation, it feels really necessary and important in the world in this time, but also always as well as all the other episodes that I've heard little negative information about if we're continuing conversations. 00:42:08.141 --> 00:42:09.849 I think it's also really important. 00:42:10.119 --> 00:42:12.039 All of us have links with whiteness. 00:42:12.041 --> 00:42:23.469 And I think that my coming into naming myself as mixed feels like it's been very tied to a person of color or a BiPAP person and whiteness. 00:42:23.829 --> 00:42:35.829 And I just want to like shout out and say, I see you all, you magical mixed humans that maybe don't have that language that are not mixed with white and are still totally enough. 00:42:36.219 --> 00:42:42.849 And that I would also really love to have more folks with varied mixed identities in these conversations. 00:42:42.880 --> 00:42:45.699 There's so much that we often do miss. 00:42:45.849 --> 00:42:45.849 Yeah. 00:42:45.940 --> 00:42:46.659 Thank you so much. 00:42:47.289 --> 00:42:49.989 Komori for pointing that out and aria. 00:42:51.489 --> 00:42:52.030 Yeah. 00:42:52.059 --> 00:42:59.289 I'm just gonna say that I share the sentiments and it's been a really incredible evening. 00:43:00.130 --> 00:43:12.969 I'm inviting other Nick's race, identify folks, but other folks who are not mixed x-rays to consider the impact of choosing. 00:43:13.150 --> 00:43:22.150 And I feel like we do because we live in a multicultural melting pot of what it means to be in solidarity with other cultures. 00:43:22.329 --> 00:43:31.210 And then what it means to create new life who will need to navigate many intersections. 00:43:31.539 --> 00:43:40.719 And it's also an invitation to mixed race folks because the more complicated someones mix is the feeling of more fragmentation kind of exists for an individual. 00:43:41.440 --> 00:44:07.480 And so if we think about wanting to bring everyone's wholeness to this conversation actively, but when I also think about action items, consider what this means for kids now who are experienced and moving through the world and wanting to reclaim, I know from hearing from different knowledge keepers of all kinds, that reclaiming identity has become a very critical mass popularity. 00:44:07.840 --> 00:44:27.190 And so how can we all, all of us in this room, but also those listening, how can we support affirming all of the identities that come into the room and how can we offer knowledge, culture, and stories to all of these people without conditions? 00:44:28.360 --> 00:44:29.469 How can you support it? 00:44:29.471 --> 00:44:38.880 Invite people into the beautiful, juicy, fantastic complexities of culture and history without conditions. 00:44:39.900 --> 00:44:53.130 Because I believe that offering that in a way that offers care and respect to both this mixed race kid and to your culture is by doing it without a condition unconditionally, unconditionally. 00:44:55.940 --> 00:45:09.320 Thanks for listening to the youth elders podcast, a big Fang scores to our sound editing team, Denato Hepburn and M Lovells with support from Maddie bowtie stack 00:45:10.159 --> 00:45:17.929 Youth elders podcast is produced by buddies and bad times theater and it's funded in part by the theaters community and education partner, TD bank.