With Podcasting now becoming mainstream, what is the future of this medium? To answer this question I spoke with one of the original B2B podcasters, Minter Dial who has produced a weekly show since 2010 with over 350 episodes to date.
I first met Minter in 2012 and have been a guest on his show twice before.
Minter first appeared on Series 1, episode 2 of the podcast to speak about Ethics and AI, so we were delighted to have him back as a veteran Podcaster to provide some excellent insights into how he got into podcasting, and why you should (or should not) start one and podcasts he listens to.
We covered a number of topics, including:
Three things for next week
1. Get the right equipment
2. Levelator audio software
3. Listen to other podcasts
Podcasts mentioned in this episode
13 minutes to the moon
More about Minter
The Last Ring Home book
Minter’s Favourite Guests
Dr Jack Kreindler
The Sleep Doctor - Mark Rosekind
The Daily Podcast
Making sense with Sam Harris Podcast
Overcast Podcast platform
Your Host: Futurist Keynote Speaker Andrew Grill
For more on Andrew - what he speaks about and replays of recent talks, please visit ActionableFuturist.com follow @AndrewGrill on Twitter or @andrew.grill on Instagram.
Welcome to the Practical Futurist Podcast. A biweekly show all about the near term future with practical advice from a range of global experts to help you stay ahead of the curve. Every episode answers the question. What's the future with voices and opinions that need to be heard? Your host is international keynote Speaker on Practical Futurist. And you Grill. Welcome to the practical Futurist podcast. My guest today is a return guest Mentor doll. Thanks for being back on the show. My pleasure. We're gonna talk about something close to your heart and more recently, close to my heart. The future ofthe podcasting. Your first episode was November 2010. What got you into podcasting? Well, at
the time, I just left loyal and like so many things, I I wanted to do what was digital. And so I started blogging in 2006 while on the Executive Committee worldwide. And at the time it was considered illegal, if not improper to self promote, where they considered itself from energy company in a big company. Soon as I left, I had been listening to podcasts. Well, why not try this out? And so, in a very amateur manner. I started podcasting. I actually believe my first ones. We're right after I left and we're done in French the time I was in Paris. So I started podcasting, and I wanted to explore what it's like. And and then little by little home, not just the technical aspects, but mine field skills.
I remember years ago in Adelaide, I was offered to be on the university radio station, and they had a slot that was three in the morning, and I declined that. But I'm always look back to think what would have happened if I'd actually taken up the offer. So now I get to do that because essentially, podcasting is a radio show.
Really? Well, that's why I used we had it first. Well, that would've become might have come a night out. But secondly, I used to start off podcast. The word is seemed so go. Should
you know where the where the word came from?
Well, I think the lower basically says it's It's the difference in the broadcast and with parties. Yeah, and so the broadcast iPod and that probably came together.
So what do you
get out of podcasting? Right. So the very first and most important thing is I learned. So I I seek out individuals who I think you're interesting, done something and they don't need to be grandiose people. They just I think if you get your listening skills turned on everybody, you can learn from. So I I seek out people that I'm going should tow hang out with and by the nature of recording, inevitably, the other person feels like they need to show up. And so then, in that moment, you get to learn stuff there. You just not gonna come with your B game. We know one of coming to be games because
your eyes, like everyone's gonna hear what you're saying. That's it. You think podcasting is replaced? Blogging?
Well, I think that blogging certainly has come under pressure. And so, you know, for having blood for so long. I can see that the volume of people listening and comment or reading and commenting as declined and so podcasting is competing with blogging in terms of getting our attention span well, it hasn't replaced No. I think that there's still a place for writing and reading and commenting, but I do think it's really interesting avenue for individuals. Authors, of course, but also cos why
do you think now is the time for podcasting?
I think it has been the time to podcast for quite a while. I think that people are now becoming Mohr custom to the idea. Podcasting. There have been certain podcast shows that have really generalised ability, like cereal in United States or your pet show Down in Australia. And So You have you. Have you seen the major media companies create more regular, well produced podcast shows that our consumable on your time and so that convenience factor, the more seamless experience of downloading it, that it's now come around as opposed to the way it was in the beginning is easier has made it easier. And yet there's still plenty more room to grow. So now, maybe because there's still plenty more room to go yet I would say that you shouldn't just launch a podcast for the sake of doing a podcast, which is what I did at the beginning, because I was just in the experimental mode. If you do a podcast, you you should be thinking about it as a long term intimate engagement just like blogging in the day and you want to think about why you're doing it. Because, by the way, it takes energy, effort, resources. And so if you're going to do it, you better be aware of why you're doing it, and that's gonna help you get up and do it.
Do you think podcasters will become the new influences when we've gone? We've got fatigued from these instagram influencers and brains. Realise they're not getting anything out of it. Do you think podcaster will step up to have that level of authority?
I think I think it depends on the platform that you have. There's there's definitely, ah, you know, obviously major podcasters where you have 30 40 million people downloading it every week. Yeah, that's that's significant influence getting on their shows, by the way. Good luck. Really? Well, of course, because Joe Rogan, Sam Harris and so on. Yes, you'd love to be on the show, but it's gonna be difficult, cause they're much more selective and and the much more aware of their influence. Now, the beginning, when you're an influence, there was sort of kind of final. I've got a 1,000,000 followers, so and they have become much more sophisticated and much more demanding. And ultimately the thing about podcasting, which is interesting, is that it's hard to hide. You know you Khun Manicure A beautiful photograph on Instagram You, Khun Cut and Paste deletes re edit a block post, but it's a whole lot harder for you as the podcast producer in this case to edit Mentor. So what's coming out of my mouth with the emotion? The intimations you was a listener are much more capable of detecting bullshit. But
I think also for the podcaster there on show, if you're not an expert, it'll come out. And if you're having a conversation like we are, and I'm just sitting here nodding and saying, That's nice next question without actually being involved. And I think that's what draws people in because on the reason why I'm doing a show with guest rather than just me. No one wants to hear my voice. I want as a saying intro. These are voices that need to be heard.
Well, that's kind, and I yet I think that what sensing Andrew is that more, you know, as a podcaster, it also can create a much better environment and conversation. And so, by the nature of the questions you're asking you, of course, in my opinion, demonstrate knowledge because, you know, and it also demonstrates who you are as an individual, they get your vibe on. By the way, they're going to hire you to speak better. Won't listen to what you say, but I think that there's there's this, Ah, this rawness to it that makes it in the intimacy of the ear, a really interesting medium in order to vehicle messages
you mentioned before about what brands and companies Khun Dio, I've started to listen to a few branded podcast. Do you think that's the next area that brands Khun really explore?
It really depends on what they're trying to achieve. So if in their strategic overview and imperatives, they have a specific need, Maybe podcasting is the answer. Podcasting is not necessarily what needs to be done, and so if you feel that you have an engagement, I was he even and B to B. It's probably far more interesting in a B two B environment where you have specific shared expertise is within the business that you're operating where you will get experts and the interest of long form podcast could be real interest. And yet on the other side, you know their various formats for podcasting, whether it's sort of bite size 2 to 5 minutes, you have a 15 minute slot. You got 20 minute commute, got the 45 minute jog. You got the one and 1/2 to 4 hours. You know, people who just like to spend their time in a constant audio manner, maybe while that ironing or doing other activities anyway. So there many formats. And so what you trying to achieve type of audience? And I think the key point, then, is to think about it as a long term ambition. Because, by the way, at the beginning, for the most part, you're going to get very few people listening, giving people accustomed to you understand the type of audience or the different types of people you have on the show. Get them coming along on a regular basis. You need to do this regularly. Aunt have constant, interesting conversation. Of course,
you do a weekly format. How does it work in terms of production time and effort? You gotta put into that
right so um, I My general idea is to have a 30 minute type of interview. When you add in the post production that the pre role in the post roll it all ends up to run about 35 minutes. I inevitably have to do the interview, and then I have to listen to the whole interview at the end to make sure that it's all good. So from the time I find set up, do the interview postproduction. I think every show takes around three hours because I also have the show notes and everything.
Yes, yes, yes. Have you got a favourite guest you've had on
one? The one that comes to mind is a Dr Jack Kriendler. I would characterise jackers and the incredible polymath. He lives in London. He operates on late stage cancer and does it on top of that does surgical operations at high altitudes. He's a high performing athlete himself and also does medicine for high performing athletes. So he has his combination of things that he pulls together on top, that he's an entrepreneur with a lot of things anyway, so I could have gone on for hours with Jack, a second person who's coming up is, Ah, professor of sleep allow who was one of the first people ever to teach sleep his PhD and sleeps behaviour psychology. And he was from Stanford, and he taught for one semester one course at Yale and because he had been taught by Guy called Building Meant Who's thie? Sort of. Godfather of all sleep anyway. Micro's kind is his name, and he I went from being asleep. Teacher two, training astronauts on how to sleep to being on the board of Thie F TSB, which the Federal trade of Federal Trial, Transport and Safety Board United States to running Mitzi. And now he's doing a start up on the autonomous vehicle. Anyway, that kind of a personality, I could just eat up every
day. How do you find gets like this? He sounds amazing. How do you find someone out there and find them constantly every week?
Well, not only his chance finding answer is putting him down because this is the challenge, and I and I, I basically I never promise anything big from them. But I promised to have an interesting conversation, and so I you know, when I when I write on my body that I want to meet interesting people. I find these people. I tagged him down and then I do everything I can to get in their wheelhouse and attract them on
what your podcast is. Avoid the things that they shouldn't do it.
If you're insincere or inauthentic about doing it, that's that's a no starter. I think that you should avoid being two amateur in the production. I think we've now got into a more sophisticated level. And if you have a crummy recording device and sounds not good, people are going to switch off. They have so much choice now out there that you can, you know, you'll get get tired of it. If you're gonna do it, don't do it just for on fizzle out. Think about it strategically, figure out why you going to do it over a year? Maybe think about types of guests you want tohave on. If you're gonna do guess you might be just desire to do individual and make sure you're including heavily into why you're doing it. If you're. If you're not clear on that thing, don't start. Good
point. What's the last podcast you listen to
I listen to the daily actually this morning, which is done by The New York Times and does a nice 20 minute, more or less in depth. If you can call it in depth review of some kind of news item. There's so much that's going on. That's of interest. I would liketo suggest listening to Sam Harris is podcast used to call Waking up Sam Harris. Now it's called making sense. He amongst other podcast luminaries in United States, are using the platform. I think very intelligently now they're trying to monetise it, but it really is about having long form conversations with conflicting opinions in a civil manner and by demonstrating civility in an argument. I think it's a brilliant example. He's part of this, what they call in America, broadly speaking, the intellectual dark Web. Make that, and they use a lot of podcasting. Joe Rogan, Jordan Peterson, the FAM spinners. A lot of interesting people, some of them swing a little bit too right, But there's another idea.
I was listening to one on the train yesterday up to Cambridge to her speaking gig. I just came across. It called 30 minutes to the moon from the BBC, and they basically look at T minus 13 and every episode is one minute closer to what goes on on. The guy that produced it actually had some affiliation with NASA. So he's got access to a ll the people that are still alive involved in the mission. I only listen to the 1st 1 but it's just a really interesting toe. Literally slice those minutes up into 13 EP asides. ITT's really grabs you.
Well, it shows you that there's a sophisticate growing sophistication. That way. We're doing podcasting, a friend of mine from from From Australia, Shavon McDermott. She was really enlightened me to the opportunities within audio, because while we have just the mikes and the voices here, there are also sound effects and silence and in different ways you can play with the mind and the listening with this little part in your ear that are getting much better. And there's some brilliant investigative podcasts that Khun bring you in. Maybe from, um, or morbid standpoints when talking about the murder, as in the pet show, what the outcome was called the pet teacher just pat.
And that actually spawned a case. A legal case in Australia. It's quite famous.
Oh, absolutely were still pending because it's still going on. But you know those air interesting ones. There's another one called Ah, Sex, a death and money And that's essentially one by NPR United States. But at the same time, it's cultural. It's not just, you know, a triple X type of thing. It's it's really looking at the human being. And the types of conversations they have are quite long form and and I think cultivating. And, you know, if we if we can also airy, ate our minds and learn to listen and understand different people, that's also interesting.
How do you discover new podcast? And when you do, do you subscribe? We just just search.
So I most my podcasts, I will discover because I'm always talking about them from other people, and what I do is I write them down and I tip, or if I my phone's out, I'll immediately subscribe because otherwise I forget. I would say that the way I consume podcasting on iPhone is using over cost. This is it's my my podcasting service. If you all for listening as opposed to the iTunes or the opposite oration for that? Well, yes, because what I like about it is I can organise my podcast of thematics. So I have something like eight themes, and I then organise them in within them. So, for example, I have news, but I also have empathy, or I have marketing or have a I new tech and Oren sexual dark web culture. And these are the different themes that I have. And so I according to the type of podcasts, I then insert them into that. And then that's how I start when I want to listen to my podcasts what I'm in the mood for, What am I gonna be doing, like a my running or my walking? Am I just driving or whatever it is, I organise myself through That and over cost is very good for that.
We talked in the last podcast with you about a I, and maybe a. I will start to learn what mood you're in and recommend we looks like you're going for a walk. Mentor, you should listen to this, right? Well,
I think you know, there's there's so many things that could happen with a guy if it were well done to help us make our lives a bit more convenience. Understand us? Of course, we'd have to be willing to give her data on DH. Sometimes that's a hard thing to do these days. So
what three things can people do to start podcasting themselves or for their business? What should they consider, obviously, why they're doing it. But once they've made that decision, what are the site of the next three things? I can do it
right? So, Chris, it depends a little bit on which business bragging about how big it is. Let's assume you're in marketing and working in a company, and you want to do podcasting well. The 1st 1 is, Who's gonna be in charge of it because you need to have somebody who's got the mojo to take care of. It. Probably want to have a little bit of a tacky aspect to it, because there's a lot of fiddling and diddling and learning about it. The say the second thing is, put a budget to it because the idea of the organic it'll get known and be viral. Forget about it and you push it like everything else, and that will require some kind of monies for promoting it. I think if you're in business, you'll need to think that out. And that really is back, too. If you're doing it, think about why. Because you know nothing for free and and then think of it is Ah, well, generally speaking, Think of it in the business as a long term project because you're going to get Makesem Stakes. You're going to go through some earnings. Get through. Try not to be perfect. Yeah, I think of it as an experience, an experiment, and learn to show who you are through it and be real.
What's interesting? Serving with the Apple platform, The first podcast that I've been through this They have to listen to it to make sure it's not exclusive or it's clean. I'm just thinking Now, if you're in a business, you've got to really your legal or compliance people to start listening to your podcast. So rather than reading a document signing off, they've gotta listen to the whole thing
Well, which brings up another point, which is that if you're in a company and you want to do a podcast, you are best served by having your best, Most biggest fans Be your internal team. Yeah, because just like a blawg or anything you're doing if your team isn't interested in listening to you and or reading what you're up to, then why would a customer be interested? And so having them be interested in, then relays? Getting the word out can be really useful.
I just think a lot of companies I've been involved in, you know that most senior people have had their blog's written for them. It's a bit hard to have a podcast done for you, So if they're going to commit to it and they're going to be the voice or the face behind it, they've really got to do it for real rather than that source it.
Yeah, it comes back to what you trying to achieve. If you're trying to cheat, show that you're really well, then you better be on it. If you're just interested in sending out Polly styrene messages with squeaky clean that are all legally perfectly this and that and that's the type of mojo you're on. Then go for it. But don't expect a huge return.
What about is thinking now internal pod cars so It's highly confidential, but it's for the company. Do you think there's merit in doing a podcast to do? Internal comes?
Oh, I totally think so. I mean, obviously, if you know a large company I mean five minute consultancy and I don't have an internal podcast. I think I'm up the wrong tree. Aside from anything else, it's showing the type of culture you wanna have, and it's demonstrating its helping to propagate a type of live culture. If you If you wait just for the CEO speech at the Christmas lunch you know, or or you have the single conversation at the coffee bar, it's This is not betray me to have, ah, larger live or this more riel, a demonstration of your culture within the organisation.
And I'm thinking again, if you then have guests on the show and easily your employees, you can highlights and great work and everyone can hear about it. I don't know why. Well, I don't know because I'm not in the company right now to see a podcast, but I've not heard of internal podcast. If you're listening out there, you're in the business started, but it means you're gonna have to set aside time. So the more senior people have got to say every week, every fortnight I'm gonna carve out a couple of hours to sit down and record this and researcher. And then, as I was saying yesterday, actually, the reason people senior executives do this, they have the feedback moment that someone listened to and said That was amazing and they go all was it? And they keep doing it because they like, other than I've got to record the podcast this week.
Well, let me go back to her than another challenge, which is, if you're the CEO doing your podcasts and everyone says you're great, beware of that feedback loop because they're kind of paid to see you're great. One of the questions I would ask, though, is if you're thinking about doing an internal podcast, why do you want to keep it internal?
Well, that's my point. But maybe you start off a nothing I've said with blogging. You starting Turnley. Could she then get some feedback and you get comfortable with that and then you go. It's ready for prime time so we won't talk about the numbers in the podcast, but I want to share my amazing team and all these storeys. I think you're right.
I mean, there's there's an interesting question within there, and I do. I do think that, you know, if you're going to do something and you want to be transparent, the danger at some level, is that you might do some podcasts that people want to share.
We'll get out there somehow, right? So be careful. Who should I interview next? And why
find people who have just done books, new books. They're very interesting.
Some reason they want to talk about the book they do. And they mentioned the word book every three minutes, which really annoys me,
right? But also be looking for people who our diverse
This's the Practical futures podcast. We've gotta leave our listens with some practical tips they could do next week. What are three things they can do next week to get into podcast?
If it's to be a podcaster, I think you need to make sure you buy a good microphone. I use thes zoom age, too, for my roaming a recording, but I otherwise use at my desk the Blue Yeti. It costs about £115 for purposes of making the quality more even sometimes when the recordings aren't done properly. I used level later as a as a une Z, but sometimes a little bit to digital method. And Andi otherwise listen to other podcast to sort of gauge which ones
you like and why you
like, and so over cost is my my tool that I use to listen to podcasts for my discovery and for my organisation on my listening and then make sure that you enjoy yourself
means another absolutely fascinating conversation. I could talk to you for hours. Thank you so much for your wisdom. Waking people find out more about you on your work and listened to your podcasts.
Well, thank you very much, Andrew, for having me on again. I blogged at minted ill dot com. My podcast. I have my show notes on mentally ill dot com fort slash podcast. It's available on pretty much every podcast service that you're used to listening to, such as stitcher or I forget the Mall iTunes. And so basically my podcasts called minter dialogue.
Thank you again until next time on the practical futurist and grilled Thank you for listening to the practical futurist podcast. You confined all of our previous shows at Futurist Stark, London on DH. If you like what you heard on the show, please consider subscribing via your favourite car staff. So you never miss an episode. You can find out more about Andrew and helps corporate navigate disruptive digital world with keynote speeches and see sweet workshops at Futurist Stark London until next time. This is being practical Futurist podcast.