You Cannot Grow Spiritually Without Sound Teaching w/ Dr. Tim Yonts

If you’ve ever thought, “I know the right things about God, so why don’t I feel close to Him?” you’re not alone. That tension sits right at the crossroads of God attachment, church hurt, and spiritual maturity, and it’s exactly where this conversation goes. I’m joined by Dr. Tim Yonts, a theologian and ethics professor with a background that includes growing up in an extremely strict church culture and then pursuing formal training in biblical studies, divinity, and theology.

We break down what theology actually is (the study of God) and why it’s not reserved for academics. We talk about systematic theology versus biblical theology, how doctrine functions as the church’s core teaching, and what words like orthodox and heresy really mean in everyday Christian life. Along the way, we get practical: where do you start if theology feels overwhelming, what resources can help, and why asking pastors and elders for guidance can protect you from convincing but harmful teaching online.

We also make space for the personal side. Church hurt can shape how we “hear” Scripture, even changing the way we read Jesus’ tone and character. We explore how emotions belong in a faithful life with God without becoming the test of truth, and why a balanced approach helps believers grow from spiritual infancy into steady, grounded maturity. If this helped you, subscribe, share it with a friend who’s rebuilding their faith, and leave a review with the theology question you want us to tackle next.

Transcript

Welcome And Why This Matters

SPEAKER_03 0:05

Alright, everyone, welcome back to the God Attachment Healing Podcast. I'm glad that you're here discussing a couple of episodes in the last couple of weeks where I was talking about um the different ways in which we experience God and the way that we think about God and see God and so on. And we talked a little bit about emotions and have been talking about um church hurt and so on. But today I have a guest, actually my good friend Tim Jantz. And we actually had a podcast together called Psych and Theo, which you can still check out. And uh yeah, I'm excited to talk today about why theology and doctrine is important to our Christian walk. Uh Tim, welcome to the show, man.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

Good to be here. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_03 0:48

Yeah, man, it's been a while. We we worked so hard on uh Psych and Theo, and we're making some traction. And I don't know if you've been hearing from people, but when's Psychic and Theo coming back? When's Psychic Theo coming back? So we'll share a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_00 1:01

Yeah, I get a few questions uh every now and then, but yeah, we'll we'll post an update on what happened with Psych and Theo.

SPEAKER_03 1:08

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I even took a break off God attachment for a while, um, really started picking it up maybe a little bit after November. But um, yeah, I've been recording and I'm just glad that I have access to a number of guests, people who are experts in their field. And Sam, you're one of them. And I thought of you for this topic because I know how much you love theology. Um, we're gonna talk some doctrine and why this is important for the Christian to grow in their walk with Christ. So, yeah, man. Well, what I usually do for these episodes is I allow for the guests to just give a brief background about themselves and why they're interested in this topic.

Tim’s Background And Training

SPEAKER_00 1:44

All right, sounds good. Okay, well, uh just a really brief background on me. I grew up in a very conservative uh household in southwest Ohio. Um I I refer to it as the indie fundy culture, uh, which it stands for independent fundamentalist culture. Um so you think uh KJV only, um you know, women don't wear sh women don't wear pants or shorts, even guys don't wear shorts, guys should only wear pants, women should only wear culottes or dresses. If you don't know what kulots are, go and Google them. Um so I grew up in a super conservative uh and also like Baptists were the only true church. Uh Baptists were the only ones going to heaven, so so I I grew up in that, you know, yeah for when I was young. I came up, uh I came out of that mostly when I was an older teenager. Um and then when I came to Liberty at College, uh College at Liberty, uh things sort of rounded out for me. Uh but essentially I became a believer when I was twelve, and then I um surrendered to some sort of ministry, didn't know at the time, but some sort of ministry when I was eighteen. Uh I didn't really th think that I was gonna be a pastor, but I didn't know what I was supposed to do. Well, anyway, I went to Liberty and studied biblical studies for my undergraduate degree, minored in intercultural studies, which is basically sort of like missions. Then I went on to earn an MDiv, Master of Divinity, from Liberty, and then I went to earn my PhD at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary in Wake Forest, North Carolina, and I specialized in theology and ethics. And for the last nine years I've worked in spiritual development at Liberty, and for about ten to twelve years I've been an adjunct professor teaching different classes from theology to worldview to ethics, which is mainly what I teach right now, is ethics one on one. And I'm currently uh working on a uh textbook for that, so it's uh in the works.

What Theology Means In Practice

SPEAKER_03 3:52

Yeah, that's great, man. That's great. It's always good to hear kind of how your background shapes a lot of the direction which you go into. And um, yeah, which is why you were the the perfect guy for this topic, you know. I've been wanting to touch on this topic for a good while because one of the most of the questions that I get about God attachment healing is, you know, well, I don't feel a certain way about God, but I know all the Bible verses, I know all the theological principles, I know these things, but I don't feel a certain way towards God. So we've been doing, I've been doing a series on that the last couple of weeks. And then I wanted to bring it back to okay, but it's also still important the way that you think about God and how you view theology and how you view doctrine and so on. So if you could just share a little bit with the audience, just kind of outlining or defining both of those terms, what's theology and what's doctrine, and why are they important? We can start there, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 4:46

Yeah, so uh as you said, you know, your feelings and the our experiences in life really can affect our the way that we see God. Um I know firsthand, you know, about that from my own personal journey, but um yeah but theology can also be helpful for correcting false views and shaping uh the way that we see God. So uh it's important for Christians to study theology. As I say to my students, we are all theologians. Uh you might as well learn how to do it properly. You know, some people do it poorly. Uh but we are all theologians in some way. If you are some if you are a Christian and you want to study God in any way, then you're doing theology. So theology in its basic sense uh comes from two words, theos and uh uh logia or logos. You know, and so it stands so put those two words together. Theos means God and logos means word, but theology together means uh the study of God. So anytime you see ology behind something, it usually means study of. And so theology means the study of God. Now there's different segments of theology. Uh in classic theology, there's what we call ten loci, or that's the plural uh that's the plural term for locus, locus meaning like the center or central nucleus of something. So loci, uh the ten loci would be theology proper. Let's see if I can name them all off the top of my head here. Theology proper, uh things like Christology, pneumatology, pneumatology being the Holy Spirit, uh homartyology, which is study of sin, soteriology, the study of salvation, anthropology, the study of God, or study of man, excuse me, uh eschatology, the study of end times, uh what is some other ecclesiology, the study of the church. So there's uh there's uh many there. And uh the loci, depending on who you ask, can be seven. I've seen anywhere from seven to ten of uh loci. So the different categories of theology. So that's what theology is.

SPEAKER_03 6:52

Are those like the systematic theology, Tim?

SPEAKER_00 6:54

Yeah, basically those are the ten loci of systematic theology. Now there's different other there's other kinds of theologies too. There's biblical theology, which is different than systematic theology. Systematic theology is exactly as it sounds, it tries to systematize all of theology into these categories, and so to give to give the person a framework of understanding and a holistic understanding of uh all of theology, all of doctrine. Uh but biblical theology would be uh like st biblical theology is a uh doing theology from directly from the text. So that would be something like what is the theology of Job or the theology of uh uh ecli uh Ephesians, okay? Like Pauline theology and the pastoral epistles. So biblical theology looks at how we come to understand God in the various specific parts of Scripture. So that's what yeah, yeah. So biblical theology is a bit more narrow focused than systematic theology, but they need each other. Yeah. And uh, but there's other theologies out there too. Um historic theology, which is a study of theology and theological development over time. Uh, what else? Anyway, um I guess I guess I could go on, but that's basically like theology. Uh well that uh well here's my field moral theology. Can you I forgot that one moral theology being a a study of uh ethical systems and moral beliefs and practices and norms, specifically as they relate to to God and Christian uh beliefs and practices. So that's what moral theology is.

SPEAKER_03 8:32

Yeah. Well, it sounds like a lot. And for those of us who don't have the in-depth studies of of theology or studying the Bible to the extent that you have or other scholars have, what would you recommend? Like that seems overwhelming, like just thinking, man, I would have to study all these things. So for the lay person who does want to be informed, would you start somewhere? Like say, hey, if you're it just want a good overall understanding that's going to keep you, you know, for the most part in a good direction, where would you say that the lay person can start?

SPEAKER_00 9:05

Yeah, so so that somebody doesn't feel overwhelmed. Everything I just rattled off to you, most of that you'll get an overview of in like a basic systematics course. If you were to go, if you were to attend a four-year university and take a Christian university and take a course in theology, like introduction to theology, you'll get that overview. Okay. Um, if most people maybe listening are either past college or not going to go to college, maybe they don't want to. I would say any s YouTube is a great teacher. I mean, you can go out to YouTube and say what is theology, or what are the main categories of systematic theology? So YouTube is a good one just to watch some short videos and resources. Uh there's some good books out there. Uh, you know, a lot of theology books though are kind of big and thick. Yeah. And so they can they can be overwhelming. Um so uh I I don't have the books in front of me and I don't want to like say off the top of my head, but there Millard Ericsson is a well-known theologian that has some really good introduction books that are very understandable for beginning students in theology that doesn't don't require you to be an expert at all. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 10:17

Easy to read and so on.

SPEAKER_00 10:19

Yeah, yeah. I can't remember his he's got a big book uh called Christian Theology, but there's a shorter book that I I'm just blanking on the title. That's a lot easier. Yeah.

Doctrine Defined And Why Orthodoxy Matters

SPEAKER_03 10:30

No, no worries. Um yeah, no, I think that's a that's a good start. And how does theology differ then from doctrine? So what's doctrine?

SPEAKER_00 10:39

Yeah, doctrine so doctrine is teaching. It's it's the it's the core beliefs, the fundamental teachings that we hammer out and pass on to people. So uh for instance a doctrine a doctrine would be something like um the the teaching on the Bible. So the doctrine of the Bible or the doctrine of scripture would be our teaching on the Bible, what we believe about the Bible. The doctrine of Christ would be uh well, that's a big one, but that would be our teaching on the uh the life and work of Christ. Um another one would be like uh well, the doctrine of sola scriptura. That's a bit narrow, but that means the scripture alone. That would be like our teaching that scripture is the sole authority or the the the uh the highest authority, let's say, for uh all things uh about the Christian life. Yeah. So doctrine basically in its fundamental sense means teaching. Uh so if someone falls into doctrinal error, that means they've fallen into some sort of false teaching in the church. Uh if you hear the terms orthodox and uh heresy or heterodox, that refers to doctrine. So orthodox means straight doctrine. Think like orthodontist is someone who puts your teeth straight. So an orthodox doc an orthodox teaching is a straight doctrine. That is, it's faithful to the historic teaching of the church. That's good. Uh in contrast, heterodox is just like it sounds hetero means different, not instead of like homodox. Hetero means different. I've never actually used that term homodox. But uh that just came to me. Uh you might want to figure that out, I guess. But hetero meaning different, okay. So heterodox means different doctrine, and it it's that's that's the technical term for heresy. So if someone's teaching heresy, they are heterodox in their theology or heterodox in their teaching, and so they are uh departed from histor uh historic teaching of the church.

How Teaching Shapes Your Whole Life

SPEAKER_03 12:54

Gotcha. No, that's good. And you know, as we as we talk about this, I think one of the reasons why we're laying these out about theology doctrines, because this is what people encounter every week when they go to church, right? And these different teachings and what the pastor says about God, their own theology and so on, I mean, that informs how congregants are going to view and experience God. So it seems self-evident to kind of explain why these things are important, but from your perspective, if you're really um teaching on these two elements of the church or of persons Christian walk, why would you say that they are important for the Christian to pay close attention to theology and to doctrine?

SPEAKER_00 13:35

Well, it's going to it's going to shape and direct the rest of your walk with the Lord. It's going to shape and direct your the rest of your life. Um it will, you know, it it impacts how you approach life, how you deal with problems and challenges in life, uh, how you uh d interact with family and friends and strangers. Um it impacts even your own confidence in your faith and and your walk with the Lord. So uh you know, someone could be a Christian and never study theology, but we would almost look at that like a a person who never grows up. Um it's like uh we you and I we talked about the man child a lot on Psych and Theo, and it's a lot like that problem. It's if someone who doesn't ever grow in their we say grow in their faith, but what we really mean is grow in their understanding of um doctrine, understanding of Christian teaching. If someone doesn't grow in that throughout their whole life, then they basically have remained a Christian infant. And that is not not good. It's like uh the the author of Hebrews talks about that kind of Christian is like a Christian who's always feeding on milk like a baby, instead of someone who's able to eat meat like a mature person. And so that's what that's why it's important for the Christian because it's important ultimately for your growth as a Christian, for your maturity as a Christian. Now, knowing a bunch of theology doesn't make one mature, it's not it's what we would call what we we would call theology it's a necessary condition, but not a sufficient condition for maturity, in that you need theology to be a mature person, but that's not the only thing that you need to be a mature person. You need other things too.

Why People Avoid Theology

SPEAKER_03 15:25

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And you know, what do you think are some of the barriers that um that limit people from wanting to understand more? I kind of alluded to one earlier where it's like it seems so overwhelming and I don't even want to try. I'll just go to my church or talk to a spiritual advisor or uh, you know, one of the elders in the church, and they'll teach me this, right? But would you say that it's it's it's important for Christians to take on that responsibility of, hey, this is so important, like you should study theology, you should study doctrine, but what would you say are some of the barriers to that other than it feels overwhelming?

SPEAKER_00 16:01

Well, people might think, uh, well, I I'm not a s I'm not a theologian. Um, I don't know Greek or Hebrew, I don't know the Bible that well, I don't know where to start, uh, I never went to seminary, whatever. There's all kinds of uh reasons that someone might have that discourage them from trying. But I would say this, you know, if you're not sure where to start, ask your pastor or ask uh an elder at your church where they started and maybe a book that they would recommend if you like reading. If some of us, uh not me, I like reading, but some some of people don't like reading. They don't it's just something they like struggle to do, and that's that's okay. That's why I mentioned YouTube, because YouTube is a great teacher if you have some guidance, and that's I would say again, ask your pastors and elders for guidance on who on YouTube would be a good person to learn about or learn from. Uh, there's a couple I would recommend, you know, Gavin Ortland is one of them. Uh he's he's got a channel that's d devoted just to uh Protestants to to show them what Protestant theology is versus Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox theology. So that would be a good one. Uh there's some others out there that uh you can just they have playlists, they have channels, and you can just watch those channels and uh you can learn all day long on YouTube. In fact, there's still a I still go to YouTube, you know. There's times where I'm like, uh I wonder, I mean, because theology, I mean, there's there's a million questions in theology, and no theologian is an expert in any of them. So sometimes even I go out to YouTube, I'm like, I wonder what some so-and-so is saying about this, you know, and I'll just see what people are saying about it, other theologians, and that's kind of where I start sometimes. But yeah, um the uh internet, you know, uh gotquestions.org is another really good, reliable site that people can use just to answer basic questions. I think that's where maybe I would I would start if I'm rounding to this answer directly, is what kind of question interests you as a person? You don't have to just pick up a theology book and read it from cover to cover. That is, I promise you, that is a very boring exercise. Yeah. Um ask yourself what theological questions interest me? What doctrine interests me? Um a lot of people are gonna be like, oh, I want to study the end times. May I just recommend not starting there? Go somewhere else, you know. Uh the end times are a quagmire, okay? You don't have to go study the end times. Um, but think of some some other doctrine that really interests you, or it's just some other topic. It could be something in ethics, which is my field, you know, abortion, euthanasia, uh LGBT issues. Uh there's a lot of talk uh about war, about immigration, you know, all kinds of social issues. That's all ethics. So you could go and find out like, well, what does the Bible say about this? Um, it could be things like, man, I really am curious about the Holy Spirit and how we're supposed to develop our relationship with the Holy Spirit and understand how he works in our lives. So maybe I'll just start learning about that. You know, or it's like uh, you know, I really want to learn about uh the the prophets in the Old Testament, or I want to learn about the kings and Old Testament history. Whatever it is, whatever it is, whatever floats your boat, whatever's that thing that's really interesting for you, then go there first.

Starting Points For Everyday Christians

SPEAKER_03 19:44

Yeah. I think that's a good guidance. You know, as we talk about different barriers that maybe limit people from wanting to study more theology or more doctrine, I think for those of us who grew up in the church who grew up in a more conservative church, so I grew up Southern Baptist, uh, you grew up Indie Fundy, is that what you called it?

SPEAKER_00 20:02

Yeah, indie fundy, yeah. So independent Baptists.

SPEAKER_03 20:05

Right. So usually I I what I've noticed with a lot of uh people that I've met is that those those who have grown up in that type of background usually grew up a little bit, I don't know if I'd say resentful towards the church, but in some ways angry or just wanting to completely shift into a different direction. Um so one of the barriers that that I've seen as well is when they come into um when they face something in scripture that they don't like because of the way that it was taught in their church growing up, maybe it was too harsh or it was very fire and brimstone, just the attitude, the the way in which it was communicated, they don't like that. So they avoid um certain topics in scripture, and and obviously that that influences how they live out their lives and how they view God. So, what would you encourage those to, you know, those who are listening, they're most of them would say that they're Christian, but I know that some of our new Christians, some are a little bit older Christians. So for the new Christian who's maybe wanting to learn about this, how could you help them see that even those parts of scripture that they don't like or that they feel that that nudge, that pushback in maybe in their own lives, of hey, how do you stick through with this? You know, how do you push forward? How do you understand those passages that are a little bit more difficult, like homosexuality, LGPD stuff, things like that?

Church Hurt And Difficult Passages

SPEAKER_00 21:28

Okay, so I would say this. One is you give yourself time because um we're all kind of growing, and it all takes us a little bit of time to let go of things from our past. Uh I can I I say this a lot, I you know, I've said this a lot when I teach Sunday school at church. Um, you know, there was a long time where I would read the scriptures, and when I would read the gospels, Jesus just sounded really annoyed, sarcastic, and kind of mean to me. Like I would read the Gospels and I'd be like, Jesus just sounds like annoyed with people. It just sounds like he's just dismissive of people. And um it took a long time for me to realize, like, uh like I'm one, I'm reading this as an English speaker would read this, and I'm not realizing one that the Gospels are really abbreviated conversations. They're not like as it was literally said, but it's condensed for narrat it's called um uh narrative compression. So it's like you know, they they take uh the writer like uh Matthew or something would take a conversation and condense it down. So that's number one is like you when you're reading a conversation, you're it's distilling the essence of that conversation, not everything that was said. Um number two though is I I came to realize, you know, when I was reading the gospels that I was hearing when I was reading Jesus, I was really just hearing some people from my past who sounded that way. Um you know, that uh Jesus sounded like some of the people from my past, put it that way.

SPEAKER_03 23:15

You mean like people in church?

SPEAKER_00 23:17

Dismissive Yeah, dismissive, angry. I mean, I cause I grew up in a cult, I grew up in a when I was from the time I was really young till almost fourteen, okay. I grew up in in two churches, uh, and it was it it was every Sunday seemed like it was a contest to see who could who what pastor could get the most worked up and the most angry from the pulpit. Um, I just remember sermon after sermon, people they would read a Bible verse, and then as like 10 seconds into the sermon, they're screaming, they're wiping their forehead, they're just go they're going off the rails. And yeah, as a kid, I don't know any different. You know, if I I hear those sermons today, and I I'm like, this is so crazy. Like, some people are crazy. Um I it was a surreal moment once. I had I had not heard one of those sermons in a long time, and I was I that by this time I was already late into undergrad year, so I was like third or fourth year into Bible study, and I heard one of those sermons on a on a tape, you know, and I was like, oh my goodness, these people, I was like, I sat under this for such a long time. I grew up under it, you know. It shaped me. And I and I can't I just like, whoa man, that was that was wild. Anyway, so all that to say, you know, I I struggled for a long time believing that Jesus was someone uh that Jesus wasn't that just annoyed, dismissive person. Um that he was actually a loving person that loved me and um you know would receive me if I turned if I turned to him and gave my life to him. Uh but so it was hard for me to to really understand like what is the love of God in scripture? Yeah. Like I it was hard for me to understand that, you know. Uh so uh that's just an example, I would say. So you gotta give yourself time. Um and and can I ask you about that a little bit, Tim? Yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_03 25:26

Yeah, so so with that, you know, um what are some of the ways in which that shaped the way that you viewed your own emotions? Because that's part of the struggle that I think Christians are having, is that um they come if they feel that they understand the Bible, that they understand theology, that they understand doctrine, that that draws them closer to the Lord. And then you have the other side that they say, well, no, I I feel close to God because He makes me feel this way or He gives me this, or and so on. For those of us who grew up in a more uh conservative uh Baptist background, for me it's kind of the same struggle. Like it was hard for me to even think about emotions. Like for me, it was emotions don't matter, it's about doing what's right and just pushing forward. How did you did you how did you come to understand maybe the role that your emotions played in your faith, or do they play a role at all?

SPEAKER_00 26:18

Um well, we might be uh we might be getting into this the second episode on this on emotions with that question, but um that's a big question, I think. I mean can you maybe ask it again?

SPEAKER_03 26:30

Yeah, yeah. So how did you come to understand your faith through the lens of emotions, right? I I know that the doctrine was strong, like it maybe the teachings were good, but there was almost an emphasis in most conservative uh churches that your emotions don't really matter that much. It's really about what you know and how obedient you are to that, and that's what's going to draw you closer to the Lord. But is there a role for emotions?

SPEAKER_00 26:54

Um I think I think the role of emotions is is uh emotions find their place, or the the these passions find their place in the devotion that we have to the Lord. Because you can't be a completely devoted person if you're just a rational person. Like the our we're not as human beings, we're not purely rational creatures. We are emotions too. Um those emotions help us uh avoid danger when we get afraid and anxious, they help us to um uh grieve the loss with cr with sadness and crying and and mourning sorrow. Um you know the they help us they help us to navigate life a life that is not purely rational. Uh I'm not a psychologist, I'm just kinda I've I'm a philosopher, so I think about those things from that side. Yeah. Um so you know, you you can't uh as as God says, uh it's not sacrifices that I require, it's a broken and contrite heart that I require, that I desire in people. Um Jesus says, Come to me, all you who are burdened and heavy laden, and I will give you rest. These are these are uh emotional, these are psychological states of mind. These are these are not purely rational things. Um so uh the you know the demons and the devil are pretty pretty rational creatures. I mean they're supra rational creatures, okay? Um so it's not just our reason that we need to understand God, because uh Satan and the demons, they have pretty good theology, um, but they that's uh that's not not what's required to be in walk uh communion with the Lord. So your emotions play a part in this too. Um God knows, you know, it says that scriptures say that God knows our heart. Our heart is something deeper than just the mind. Our heart is our will and our desire. And those will that will and desire is not just mental, it's also emotional. Because it's it gets to the heart the that's redundant, it gets to the heart of who we are. It gets to the the the deepest, deepest thoughts and intents uh that we have. Um so I think knowing that, knowing that um it's okay to like your your emotions are your emotions make you human. Okay, your mind makes you human, but your emotions do too. Yeah. And so uh your emotions are not should not be like the barometer of truth, but they are um useful and helping you have a have a pure a human relationship with God.

SPEAKER_03 30:10

No, that's good, man.

SPEAKER_00 30:11

I don't know if that makes sense. Uh it's a not a straightforward answer, but no, no, that that's helpful.

SPEAKER_03 30:16

And and in some ways you kind of um reference the fact that for those of us who did grow up like that, when people ask me, How do you feel about God, I'm like, well, I think, no, no, how not how do you think? How do you feel? And that was that was a weird transition for me because I couldn't put it into words. It was one of those things I honestly I don't know how I feel about God. I know he loves me, I know he cares about me, but I don't know how I feel towards God. And that was kind of the the setting where I start to explore that a little bit more and start to see like the the need for it. Where before I think I would disregard it, which is kind of funny me now that I'm a counselor, but it was one of those things where, yeah, like I can't let my emotions control me. I have to think right in order to do right, but my emotions do influence that as well. So it was one of those things I think some Christians who maybe have a background like we do, where they may struggle with how do you feel about God? Like, how do you feel towards God? And I think it's hard still, and I still do find it hard sometimes to communicate how I actually feel about God and about his role in my life because he's shown me so much grace and and mercy and love. So even those things can bring up a lot of a lot of emotion. But I do feel I know about God, I know God, but yeah, the the talking about the feelings I think is where some Christians may struggle. Um, but yeah, wait with that being said, Tim, are there any final thoughts that you have regarding theology or doctrine that you think the audience should be aware of?

Why You Still Need Pastors

SPEAKER_00 31:44

Um, well, I would say this. You know, some people get in their minds like, I don't need anyone to help me, I don't need a teacher, I don't need pastors to to tell me what to believe. I think that's a mistake. I think that's actually a dangerous road to go down. Uh, if you are a believer who isn't formally trained in theology, um it's not that I I don't I really don't like the gatekeeping that sim some seminaries play um because theology should be for the church and for the people. Um gatekeeping in what way to study deeply, you do need to learn some gatekeeping is in the sense of like uh well, this person isn't formally trained, therefore they can't be a pastor, or therefore they they don't have anything of value to say. That's just that's just uh credentialism. That's just scholarly gatekeeping, is all that is. Um but yeah, I like what uh one person said. I I can't I'm blanking who said it, but they said scholarship is something you do, not something you buy. Okay, so it's uh you can be a person who studies theology and learns a great deal, even if you don't have the certificates hanging on the wall. But uh theology is is rife with terrible, terrible teaching sometimes. You know, you can run into the most horrible, uh dangerous, heretical things, just picking up a theology book if you pick up the wrong author. I mean, there's different schools of theology, there's different denominations, and like as I mentioned before, heresies and heretics out there that if you read them, they sound convincing, uh, but they're really not. And this is where like a trained theologian can help. Uh because it's like it's like you go out online if you're not a health expert and you're watching a video, someone giving you health advice, and you're like, Well, I don't know anything about health. It sounds convincing, they're using a lot of big words, they're wearing a white lab coat, they're they seem like they're showing all these studies, like screenshots of studies that back up what they say. But if you actually talk to a medical professional, you know, you might you might realize, oh, what that person's saying is completely bunk. Like completely. Okay, so theology can be very similar to that.

SPEAKER_01 34:00

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_00 34:00

So that's why pastors and elders and things like that are very useful. They're shepherds, they're called shepherds for a reason in the Bible. They are meant to guide the flock and to teach them and to train them. So uh that's why, and and the past uh the pastors, the uh first Peter admonishes believers to follow and submit to your elders in church uh because they watch for your souls and they give account of you of your growth to the Lord. So submit to them and uh humble yourself before them uh uh within reason, okay? Like uh don't submit to some narcissist. I was just watching uh an epis an episode that you did uh with uh I I don't remember his name, but you guys are talking about cult-like cults like that and cult-like behavior. Yeah, so we're not talking about cults here, we're talking about you're in a healthy church with pastors who are uh healthy leaders, take their advice and seek wisdom from them.

Wrap Up And What Comes Next

SPEAKER_03 35:01

That's good. That's good advice, man. Well, I think uh, yeah, so for those of you guys who are listening, I hope that this was a blessing. That, you know, obviously when we talk about emotions, that's important, it's a part of who we are, but also not to neglect the other element of being able to inform yourself theologically and also on doctrine so that you can know uh the direction in which you need to go and seek out the help of those in your church so you can continue to go on your walk with Christ. Tim, thanks again for being here. We have another episode that will talk about the role of emotionalism and how that influences or impacts the Christian. All right, guys, I'll see you guys next time.