Are you destroying your marketing efforts without even knowing it? Learn how to break down silos, move forward, and win as one organization.
With this episode of the Marketing Counts Podcast, Shreya Banerjee and Paul Counts share the harsh truth today about how you may accidentally be destroying your marketing momentum while wasting your marketing dollars. After serving as Fractional CMOs, working with thousands of business owners, creating marketing curriculum for academia, and being involved in marketing for a combined 30+ years, they have had a front-row seat to watching companies torpedo marketing efforts by making these classic mistakes.
There is even a warning for marketing agency owners to help you watch out for the wrong clients.
In this episode, you will discover:
Show Notes:
[2:06] Stop Micromanaging
[4:28] The Key To Success With Marketing Is To Be Consistent
[6:46] Let Your Marketing Team Stay In Their Lane
[12:29] Your Marketing Team Is Not Your Enemy
[15:34] Focus On Payoff Over Payment
[20:40] Do You Keep Saying Marketing Does Not Work?
Want to email Shreya or Paul directly?
Email workwithus@marketingcounts.com
Learn About Marketing Counts Here: www.marketingcounts.com
Free Guide - 26 Email Marketing Hacks - Click Here
Are you destroying your marketing efforts without even knowing it? Learn how to break down silos, move forward, and win as one organization.
With this episode of the Marketing Counts Podcast, Shreya Banerjee and Paul Counts share the harsh truth today about how you may accidentally be destroying your marketing momentum while wasting your marketing dollars. After serving as Fractional CMOs, working with thousands of business owners, creating marketing curriculum for academia, and being involved in marketing for a combined 30+ years, they have had a front-row seat to watching companies torpedo marketing efforts by making these classic mistakes.
There is even a warning for marketing agency owners to help you watch out for the wrong clients.
In this episode, you will discover:
Show Notes:
[2:06] Stop Micromanaging
[4:28] The Key To Success With Marketing Is To Be Consistent
[6:46] Let Your Marketing Team Stay In Their Lane
[12:29] Your Marketing Team Is Not Your Enemy
[15:34] Focus On Payoff Over Payment
[20:40] Do You Keep Saying Marketing Does Not Work?
Want to email Shreya or Paul directly?
Email workwithus@marketingcounts.com
Learn About Marketing Counts Here: www.marketingcounts.com
Free Guide - 26 Email Marketing Hacks - Click Here
Paul Counts (00:00):
Are you destroying your marketing efforts without even knowing it. And as an agency owner, are you working with the wrong clients that are actually bringing your business down
Shreya Banerjee (00:08):
Today We are talking about breaking down silos and how to move forward and win. As one organization.
Paul Counts (00:41):
Hello, and welcome here to the Marketing Counts Podcast. I'm Paul Counts here alongside with
Shreya Banerjee (00:46):
Shreya Banerjee!
Paul Counts (00:46):
And today we have a really interesting topic. I think Shreya today, we're gonna be talking about the yo-yo client and this is really directed twofold. One for business owners that are hiring marketing agencies, marketing consultants. The other person's gonna benefit from this episode is the actual business. Uyou know, it's the actual,
Shreya Banerjee (01:07):
The
Paul Counts (01:07):
Agencies agency themselves. Yeah.
Shreya Banerjee (01:09):
Normally our podcast is not directed to the marketing agencies, normally we say things to look out for ask the questions, right. But this one's directed to them so that, you know, what type of client not to get
Paul Counts (01:20):
Right. Not to get. And as a business owner, you don't wanna be that type of client because in reality, you could actually really hurt your business and hurt the efforts and basically throw the money away that you just invested into marketing.
Shreya Banerjee (01:32):
Right. It might seem like an amazing idea at that time, but actually you're hiring and you're wasting money. You're not guessing any results because you keep yo yo-yoing back and forth. Right, right. And we've had this over the years. So many of them, so many
Paul Counts (01:48):
Of 'em, so, so many of these, I mean, so we'll give you an example what a yo-yo client would be. So that's gonna be somebody that literally goes back and forth, back and forth. Like you just said between being happy with what you're doing, unhappy with what you're doing, micromanaging, what an agency is doing and even going as far, this is probably the biggest part of that is they go as far as to say, you know, well, back when I was doing it myself, I was getting better results or I did this better, or I did this differently or, you know, constantly questioning. And so it's interesting to us that you run into people in business that want to hire you. And then they continue. It's just like in a, in a regular work, if you're hiring a regular employee, it's the same thing. Nobody wants to be micromanaged about every single detail. So Shia what, you know, some great examples we've dealt with, right? Like where they'll tell us, Hey, I've had, you know, when I was posting these videos five years ago, I was getting this kind of result. Right. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and mm-hmm <affirmative> the result is that's five years ago, you know, algorithms change things, change
Shreya Banerjee (02:47):
Algorithms, change every day, what you could be doing last week, doesn might not work this week. Right, right.
Paul Counts (02:53):
Yep. Yes, absolutely. And the other thing to keep in mind is that, you know, yes, it may have worked that, that time and it doesn't mean it's happening every single time. And the other thing is is that if you are doing so well at it, and if it's working, then why are you seeking a marketing agency? Right. So it just boils down to just kind of getting out of their own, getting outta your own way. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> because what'll end up happening is as you hire an agency, if, if you start, if you want them to truly execute, so you trusted them enough to hire them. We've, we've dealt with this. That's why we can speak to this. So you, as a business owner, you go hire an agency and you pay them money because you trust them to do your work. Then why would you stop their momentum after one month and say, why want to do it my way now? Does that make sense?
Shreya Banerjee (03:40):
No, absolutely not. Because if you wanted to do your, your way, then you should have done it all along and gotten the results as you wanted. Right? Exactly. So don't waste your money on getting somebody, not even an agency, even at a person, like don't waste your money, do it the way you feel like it's the right way. Yeah. And you probably will see your results because you're gonna be doing it. There's there's been times where our clients, we have told them to do it a certain way and they didn't do it at that point. Right. But after we, we left and we left it a good term, they continued to do it the way we set and they did it organically and they grew yes themselves. Right. Right. And we're still friends. We still talk. Right. So it's, it's not, we didn't, we never leave in a bad, no, no situation. But the thing is, you, you do it, you are gonna see results. The key to being successful debt, anything is to do something consistently, whether you do it or you hire somebody else to do it for you to be consistent. So if you're gonna be consistent about it and you wanna do it, do it yourself, you are gonna save money on it. Right.
Paul Counts (04:38):
Yo you absolutely will. Like, I mean, if that's your, if that's your goal, then save yourself that money, you know, go buy yourself something fancy personally, as a business owner and don't waste it on a marketing agency, cuz it is, it's gonna be a waste because it's, it's a start and stop mentality. Right? Mm-hmm <affirmative> so anytime you a marketing campaign, a proper marketing campaign, whether it's Google ads, whether it's Facebook ads, whether it's just organic SEO you know, email campaigns, you name it, there's really no campaigns that are instantly snap your fingers. They're gonna get amazing results. And if that is true, or if you've been sold that before you're being sold a bill of goods that we've talked about, that's not true. You know? And if any business everything's going to take time. Now, what you need to be careful of is looking for people that are gonna tell you it's it's quick and easy, cuz it's not. And everything takes time. But what ends up happening is that if you hire an agency and then let's say month one, you're you decide that you wanna go a totally different direction. Guess what you've done. You've now stalled all the momentum that they gained in that first month. And then you're sitting there starting from square one and month two, and then comes around month three. You're griping to the agency that you're not seeing the results. And it's been three months now.
Shreya Banerjee (05:47):
Exactly. Now that's, this is a message for the agencies. Yes. Now it's up to you to make sure that you have the proper metrics in place. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> that you're tracking it in place. And then also if you are asked to pivot that it's properly documented that it, you as a client have, or you know, the client has asked you to pivot and what the consequences of that pivot will be because right of the change that we're doing, hence the yoyo. Right? So because of the changes that happen, you're not gonna see the results that you might have said you could have atta, you
Paul Counts (06:19):
Could have gotten, right? Yeah.
Shreya Banerjee (06:22):
So it's accountability from both ways. We always talk about ho holding, you know, clients, holding marketing agencies accountable, but in, it goes both ways where marketing agencies also need to hold clients accountable to say, we can't keep flip flopping and going, you know, yoyo up and down, up and down, changing pivoting and expect to move forward.
Paul Counts (06:43):
Right? Expect the result. And you know, and then constantly tell the agency, you know, we've worked with people that have actually told us as far as like, let's say social media goes, you know, they'll tell us, you need to post five times a day on Instagram or you're not gonna get the results. And it's crazy because we know if you overdo it with any algorithm, it's not going to end up working. It's just not the most effective. Secondly, 90% of their sales were not driven from social media. They were driven from email marketing and referral marketing. Right? So we knew that we had that data. We presented that data still did not matter because in their opinion, five emails was more important, right? That five for five Instagram posts was more important to them because they thought that was right. So instead of their marketing agency, being able to spend, you know, our case, it was us.
Paul Counts (07:28):
But instead of us being able to spend time on what's most profitable, even though we got great results, we could have gotten even better results. So they just moved and gotten out of the way. And sometimes you just have to be willing to get outta your own way. Maybe it's a, you know, maybe it's a pride thing as a business owner, whatever the case is, just get over yourself before you hire an agency, might be the easiest way to say it. I mean, not to sound harsh, but that's the reality. You have to be willing to move out of the way and let the capable people that you trust do their job because you are not, you will not see the results long term. And if you have the perfect strategy, implement that perfect strategy yourself or hire somebody, that's just an executor, not a strategist,
Shreya Banerjee (08:09):
Right? The biggest mistake you could make is going, yo, yo is what we're calling it here. You know, pivoting strategies, right? Once a strategy is set, whether you're doing it yourself, whether you're giving it out and you're outsourcing it, you need to follow the strategy. You need to follow that path. And yes, we do say, you know, if something's not performing, you need to be you know, you should be able to pivot not, but you have to give it enough time in order to see whether it's working or not. Yes. Before you say, okay, I'm ready to pivot. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> a lot of times is, you know, we feel like in today's day we want everything quick. Right? We want everything fast. And if it's not happening within a week, within two weeks or within a day, or mm-hmm, <affirmative>, you know, we feel like, okay, it's not meant to be, it's not gonna gonna happen. But what we forget is consistency is key. Right? Right. We always say here and marketing counts consistency counts. Yes. So if you're not consistent, it's not gonna happen. And if you are consistent, no matter how bad it is, it's going to happen,
Paul Counts (09:11):
Right. Yes. It's you just have to keep on keeping on, you know, if you're gonna trust somebody to, you know, with your marketing trust that they will do the job or don't hire them at all. And that's probably the biggest message you can take away from this. And there there's a lot of business owners that probably are gonna be listening to this and probably go, you know, marketing doesn't work. We hear this a lot too. Yes. And, and we, we hear that from clients, we actually end up working with that client, you know,
Shreya Banerjee (09:38):
We were asked ones to see, let's see if marketing really does count. Right. Yes. And yeah. Yes, it does. It
Paul Counts (09:45):
Does. It does. Yeah. We, we proved that point. They agreed. Yeah. Yeah. They cuz they had never seen it, but it's also one of those red flags we've dealt with the clients, you know, people talk about red flags and relationships while you know, entering a relationship as an agency to a business and vice versa. It is an agency, you know, and it is a relationship. So you need to look for those red flags. One of the things we have heard is I've never had any success for the marketing agency and actually most of the time that we've ran into any issues and, and we fire clients religiously, it's actually very important to us that we work well with the right people.
Shreya Banerjee (10:16):
That's a mental thing. It's, it's a magnet shift. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> for an agency really is right to say, Hey, we're not a good fit mm-hmm <affirmative>. And if you are running an agency and you're going crazy because of the yoyo clients or, you know, whatever, it's a mindset shift, right. To say, no, we gotta stop. We gotta hold you accountable. We got to either, it's gonna take more time, more money, more whatever. Or just say, Hey, we're not the right fit. Yeah. And it's time to move on to something else.
Paul Counts (10:47):
Right. And every time historically we've done that, it's ironic. But every single time we've done that we've actually doubled or tripled our revenue the following few months. Yes. Because of new clients, new business. Because we started to focus on the right clients that served that we could serve that wanted to actually stop and listen. That wanted to actually see the results that got out of our way, you know, or got outta the agency's way. It's amazing how that happens though. It's really that mindset shift you were talking about because
Shreya Banerjee (11:14):
The clarity it brings to you cuz the piece of mind it brings to you,
Paul Counts (11:18):
Right. There's power in having a peace of mind. You know, if you're, if you're constantly stressed, you're not gonna do the best job. Right.
Shreya Banerjee (11:25):
Right. So I feel like in this podcast, we're actually trying to bridge the gap. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> a lot of times there are silos of, okay, there's an agency that I'm hiring as a business owner. And then aside of, from the agency side that, okay, I have a client, who's a business owner. So, and they don't talk very relevant with each other. And you know, they throw blames at each other. The business owner says the agency sucks and the agency says the client sucks. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> well, this is, I hope what you take out of this who no matter what side you're listening from is I hope it bridges a grab of how agencies think and how, you know business owners think. Right. And like work together. Cuz if you work together, you're gonna accomplish something amazing. Yeah.
Paul Counts (12:09):
Oh absolutely. And that's a great, great point about working together to accomplish something amazing because there is, you know, it's so much power and unification mm-hmm <affirmative> and, and it should go without saying, right, your marketing agency is part of your team. They're not your enemy. And I don't know why some people treat them as that. It's kind of weird. Right. But it's almost like, well, I'm paying this, this person. So you're just a, you're a liability to me, you know? And it's like, and it's ironic cuz we actually not just with our agency, we know this from marketers, marketers that are actually in companies like literally people that are FTE's at companies <laugh> that
Shreya Banerjee (12:45):
Are, we've been told marketing has a marketing
Paul Counts (12:47):
Problem. Right. We've been told marketing is a marketing problem because we're so busy marketing that we don't market ourselves enough to show everything we did for the organization. It's it's fascinating too, because in some organizations, the sales team gets all the credit. So the sales team get all the credit, but guess who it was that generated the lead that got the person to the website that delivered brand awareness that actually created the entire pitch deck or proposal or you know, whatever it was that was marketing that created
Shreya Banerjee (13:14):
All that. So I'm gonna step in, this is a little bit going out of what we're talking about. Yeah. A little bit UN tangent, but as a business owner, the worst thing you can do is ask for whose, when was this? Yes. That's how you're creating silos within your team and say putting teams against each other, as healthy as you think that is, it's not, you should not be putting teams against each other. Even if you think it's a healthy competition, it's you should be building a, a culture of, you know, let's work together and oof, one team wins. We all win because it's one organization and we're all moving forward. Right. So that's the worst thing you could do is by saying, you know who win? Was
Paul Counts (13:53):
It? Yeah. Oh my gosh. We've we've heard that. We've seen it. We've witnessed it. We've seen it at corporations, large corporations. And you just cringe because you're like, you just, you just made each, you know, the sales team, the marketing team, the technical team, you made them all enemies. Yeah. You know, they
Shreya Banerjee (14:08):
All fight at each other. Like we can't close the sale because the technical stuff sucks. And the technical team says, well, our stuff sucks because you can't market. Right. Right. It goes in circles,
Paul Counts (14:19):
In circles. It creates animosity in an organization. And why would you bring that to your business? It's it's outrageous. Right. And it goes the same way with your agency. Like don't, don't put them into a silo. Don't question. Look at the whole picture. Like as an entrepreneur, as a business owner, you have to look at the big picture. Like don't be so such a myopic view and look at things so dollars and cents, cuz I'll, we'll be honest with you as marketing agencies. Sometimes there is not a dollar and cents return on certain marketing efforts. There might be an overall effort, but guess what? That tweak to a, to a sales page that tweak to a landing page could improve your conversions tremendously. And guess what? That could impact your business for 10 years from now, we have clients that we've left and we still, you know, the, the dings keep coming in for the leads that we generated, cuz that never got turned off, you know, to our, to our corporate email mm-hmm <affirmative> and we keep getting those new, new, newly, newly new, this is stuff that we put in place, you know?
Paul Counts (15:12):
And they may technically not believe that was a marketing win. But the reality is it is, you know, it is it's generating new leads. It's a form. You didn't have, it's a tweak to a landing page. You didn't have.
Shreya Banerjee (15:21):
So we have talked about not in particular, this podcast, but in the past about payoff versus payment mm-hmm <affirmative> and as a business owner, you need to have that mindset of, you know, not only when you're networking outside to, to create, not create relationships with other businesses to grow your business, but also within your team, what activities will, does not give you the payment currently, but will pay off right in
Paul Counts (15:48):
The long run. Yes. Well, and, and we'll take this step further. We've worked with people. I know this is gonna make your eyebrows, just like go up. If you're listening to this, like we've literally worked with somebody that or organization that said they are more profitable than they've ever been. And they were still upset with the marketing. It was very interesting to hear they were upset because well, they weren't sure that they were questioning what marketing did. And it was very interesting. They literally just said, we are more profitable. We have more leads. We have more sales than we've ever had in our organization, but we don't know what marketing's doing for us. Cuz I think these are sales wins. Like again, right back to that silo mentality. Like what, it's
Shreya Banerjee (16:25):
One, if you think about it, it's like, if you think about it from like a human perspective, it's one body, one organism, it's one organization.
Paul Counts (16:32):
It is it's one
Shreya Banerjee (16:33):
Organization. We're all move forward together.
Paul Counts (16:36):
Yes. And,
Shreya Banerjee (16:37):
And the more you try to say, okay, this is not my hard pumping blood. It's my brain thinking and that's the win. It's a, brain's win. And that's the hard's win. That's when you lose, when you say this is whoa, that's good. You know, this is the technical team's win. It is the sales team's win. It's a marketing teams. You are gonna lose because if your heart stops working, yeah. Your body's gonna shut down.
Paul Counts (16:57):
Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And you need to look at it from that perspective. And we might sound like, you know, two bitter agency owners. No, we love what we do. We love our clients. We love the people we serve. You know, we love the training. We love everything about marketing. It's why we teach it. It's why we're in colleges and high schools and all that. But we're just here to help you as a business owner.
Shreya Banerjee (17:13):
Right. And we're against silos. Right. And we're here to break the silos. And I hope that this podcast, if you're listening to it and no matter who you are, if you think someone else can benefit from it, please forward it to them. Right. To say, Hey, we are one organization. We need to move forward together and not create silos. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> cause I hope this breaks down some barriers of how marketing agencies think and also how business owners think cause we're business owners too. Right? Yeah. So I hope this kind of breaks down those two barriers of how both sides think. And we're not trying to, you know, get you like one the worst to each other. We won the best for each other.
Paul Counts (17:51):
Everybody wants to win is, is one. Exactly. Yeah. It's, you know, I'll give the sports analogy, right? Like you want everybody on the same page, you know, kick off coverage breaks down. It's the one person that got out of their lane that messes it up. And oftentimes when you're creating these silos, it's somebody getting out of their lane to go blame another organization that throws everything off. So as long as people are, you know, eliminating that silo and staying focused, it's amazing what can happen. So really our, our point of this is to help you as well. Like whether you're an agency help you watch out for those, we kind of reiterated, it, opened it as kind of a little open loop out there a while ago. But we were talking about the you know, some of the red flags to look out for.
Paul Counts (18:32):
And one of those, I would say as an agency owner it, and this goes both ways. So if you're an agency owner or a business, if you've told yourself marketing does not work, I don't think marketing works. Or you hear that as an agency owner, the marketing never works. They've never worked. They've tried it all the time. Well, that should be your first red flag as an agency owner because obviously marketing worked to some extent because they would not be in business for 20 years making sales, right. Because marketing, without marketing, nobody's gonna know about your product sales team could be as best good as they can, but there's not gonna be leads for the sales team or, or so that should trigger something for as, as an agency owner or,
Shreya Banerjee (19:06):
Or if you're just starting out. Right. Even if you're just starting out and the person who's saying that the business owner is saying marketing doesn't work. Let's try it. Or I've tried everything and I've failed and it doesn't work. I don't believe in marketing. That's the wrong mindset to have. Yes. That's a wrong mindset for our client to have for you as an agency owner to take on that client, you're gonna struggle. You're gonna struggle big time in, right.
Paul Counts (19:30):
I talk, they've always been
Shreya Banerjee (19:31):
All the time. Cause you know, I go through the clients and I filter the clients. Even though they don't know it, now they do. Right.
Paul Counts (19:38):
Yeah. Now they Dore is the filter.
Shreya Banerjee (19:40):
Yeah. So what ends up happening is you know, you're in the wrong mindset. If you're in the wrong mindset that month, that like, if they like eat, you, you know, yes. They drain your energy and then you can't focus on all the other good stuff, all the other good clients that you have, all the other amazing stuff that you're doing, your
Paul Counts (20:00):
Business, good projects.
Shreya Banerjee (20:01):
Yeah. Right. And they like, it's not worth it. Mm-Hmm
Paul Counts (20:04):
<Affirmative> no, it's, it's not like you we've been on calls with potential clients and she'll call me right away will call me right away. Uhuh, Uhuh, no say no, say no. Yep. And you know, it's tough cuz as an agency, you, everybody, any business owner, right. It can seem difficult turning money. It's hard to say no to money. We've repeatedly though proven it. And you know, there were a few where we saw the red flags and we, I moved forward. I'll take the blame for that. <Laugh> and we ended up dropping them later cuz the red flags were there. You know, they were, they were questioning marketing. And again, if you're, if you're somebody listening to this as a business owner, looking to hire an agency and you're telling yourself marketing's ever worked, you might wanna look, take a deep look in the mirror and go, have I stayed out of the, the way of the marketing team? Have I been controlling? Have I been, you know, have I been letting them do their job? Like for goodness sake, give a marketing agency at least three months, maybe six months. But at the minimum bare minimum three months. But honestly we found it's usually about six months before six it's usually month four or five things start to get in motion. And by then they're griping about month 1, 2, 3, you know? But that's, that's marketing. That's like anything you're trying to move a culture, change a team change, copy, change messaging. Like nothing this quick,
Shreya Banerjee (21:19):
Not this fast. Even if, if you were to go out and hire a full-time person and grow your own marketing team, you're gonna still need time to, you know, learn about the product and the environment and expectations and all that. So you're, by the time they get used and get ready, like productive employee, right. It's around six months anyway.
Paul Counts (21:39):
Yeah. It's it's same way. Right? Same way for an employee. Right. You're right. That's a great
Shreya Banerjee (21:43):
Analogy. You won't fire an employee in six months.
Paul Counts (21:45):
No you won't. You don't expect miracles. Yeah, absolutely. So yeah. Treat your agency better. Treat them as, as an extension extension of your team. There we go. It's a good word for it. And if you do that, it's gonna be amazing. Like that's literally what we're here to tell you about is treat people
Shreya Banerjee (22:00):
Well that's when the magic happens. Yeah. Like when business owners treat the agencies, they hire not just marketing, we're talking about marketing, but any other people, any agency, when you treat them with respect and stay out their lane and treat them, you know, like with authority, right. Hire somebody that you trust and like, and obviously, you know, that's your hiring decision and this opposite happens. Like when Bo teams hold each other accountable, that's where magic happens.
Paul Counts (22:27):
Yes, it absolutely is. And it's okay for you to, you know, question some things and talk to the agency. And as an agency, it's okay for the client to question things, but give them a, the honest answer at all times both ways and try to listen to both parties because there are times where the client may know something about their industry that you didn't realize as an agency. So it is important to understand some of those things. So then you can implement it, but then it's again, right back to what you said, Trey it's moving forward is one unit mm-hmm <affirmative>, it's not you going like this. Guy's a jerk that guy's a jerk. And then, you know, butting heads constantly. It's, it's really just, you're there for the same goal. You know, at the end of the day, you're there for the same goal.
Paul Counts (23:05):
So make it happen. Everybody works together and give your team a chance to win. Don't think, and don't expect them to win. If you're gonna step in every month with a new marketing strategy and expect them to implement it. And then gripe that after you've changed things three, we're not even kidding. This has happened numerous times. It's, it's a, it's a problem in the business. World's why we're doing a podcast on it. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>, it's, we've seen it just with all the clients we've worked with and we we've heard it from so many other agency owners and people working in the business to the point where many agency owners just said, forget this world. I'm doing my own thing. Now, people that, you know, in the corporate world, like this is a problem in the corporate world where it is. It's very, for whatever reason, a lot of business business owners have this mentality of wanting control and wanting to be a hundred percent in, in charge.
Paul Counts (23:49):
And it's okay to you're the owner of your business. But you also need to trust who you put in place to do the job, let them do their job so that you can win, cuz you're gonna benefit. Yeah. So you just need to, you know, sometimes just get out of the way, let the team that you hire do their job and it's amazing what can happen. And, and you know, so we're excited for those that listen to this this far, you know, I hope you didn't think this was just us griping. You know, we, we do, we love the people we work with, but you know, we just had to be very honest and real because it is a problem in all of the marketing world, from conferences, we attend people. We talk to it's an ongoing issue and
Shreya Banerjee (24:25):
Not just inside, not just agencies, but even within companies,
Paul Counts (24:29):
The company, right?
Shreya Banerjee (24:30):
The marketing team within the company.
Paul Counts (24:32):
Yeah. And it's your marketing team is not your enemy. Like they're not your marketing team is not your enemy. Like we're here to be the voice for the marketing team, cuz for whatever reason marketing teams are, you know, first ones to get cut first ones to get, you know, the sales team gets the glory where the marketing, team's the one that generates the leads and that's just, it's good sales team does their job too. But without marketing, there are no leads for sales team. And so when you create those silos in sales, quits griping at marketing and marketing quits griping about sales team, it becomes a unit where you're trying to work together and help each other effectively instead of fight each other and dislike each other. And so that's, that's the only way to grow as a business is to have unification mm-hmm <affirmative> so anything else you wanna cover on that?
Paul Counts (25:14):
Shreya? No. All break down the silos. Yeah. Break, break down the silos. So, and if you guys need anything, just visit us at www.marketingcounts.com. We've got everything up there. We've got a free giveaway for you as well. So go check it out guys@marketingaccounts.com, make sure you like share this podcast with those that you want to hear this. I feel like it's a very powerful message for all businesses, all business owners, all managers, all leaders, all business owners mean really this can benefit everybody. So we look forward to hearing your feedback and thanks again for listening to the marketing accounts podcast. Thanks guys.