Rideshare Experiences and How They Can Be Improved

On this episode, we are talking about experiences in securing rideshares and what you can do should you experience problems. 

On this episode (In Order of Appearance)

• Narrator
• Sara Brown, APH Public Relations Manager
• Danielle Burton, APH Communications Accessibility Editor
• Meagan Gorsuch, Vancro Program Manager
• Claire Stanley, American Council of the Blind Director of Advocacy and Governmental Affairs

Additional Links

• U.S. Department of Justice Civil Rights Division
• American Council of the Blind

Transcript

Narrator: 0:00

<silence> Welcome to Change Makers , a podcast from APH. We're talking to people from around the world who are creating positive change in the lives of people who are blind or have low vision. Here's your host.

Sara Brown: 0:15

Hello and welcome to Changemakers. I'm APH's Public Relations manager, Sara Brown . And on today's episode, we're talking about experiences in securing Ride shares. Here two individuals share their firsthand experience and their tips to have a better ride. After that, learn what you can do should you encounter such issues. On this episode, I have APH's as Danielle Burton, along with Megan Gorsuch here to share their personal stories. Hello everyone and welcome to Change Makers .

Meagan Gorsuch: 0:45

Thank you for having us here.

Danielle Burton: 0:47

Thank you for having us. We're excited to be here.

Sara Brown: 0:50

Yes, I'm excited to talk to you all and hear your experiences, but up, first, do you mind to just introduce yourself and let our listeners know what it is that you do and where you're located?

Danielle Burton: 1:01

Yes . Um , my name is Danielle Burton and I am in Louisville, Kentucky. I work for the American Printing House for the Blind as the Communications Accessibility Editor, so I ensure all the documents and websites are all accessible for everybody.

Meagan Gorsuch: 1:21

My name is Megan Gorsuch. I am the program manager in New Mexico for a company called Vanco , and we support people that are deafblind, deaf with additional disabilities and deaf senior citizens. The majority of work that I do is case management and running the program to find employees to provide support, service provider services to all consumers, such as going to and from places. So if consumers need to go grocery shopping, our staff will go with them throughout the entire grocery trip and not just drop the ball .

Sara Brown: 1:58

This podcast is talking about problems securing rideshares. Would you mind just , just to share some of the experiences you've had with this issue?

Meagan Gorsuch: 2:09

So I've had a few cases of issues with ride share . Um , typically I would use Uber because I find the app more accessible. So the majority of my issues are that drivers will pull up, cancel the ride and drive away, or they won't pull up and they will cancel the license . And one experience that I had with Uber really kind of scared me. Um , I was at a hotel out of town and I had asked somebody that worked at the hotel to verify the license plate before I got in the car and the driver was really annoyed about the dog and the hotel employee said, well, it's really against the ADA to deny the dog. And so he went, okay, yeah, you're right. I didn't realize how upset he was until I got in the car and drove away. The drive was about, was supposed to be about five minutes, but it actually ended up taking 10 minutes because he spent the entire time yelling at me in the full language and also saying that my dog was a bad dog and flailing his hands everywhere. And I actually at one point considered calling 911, but I really had no idea where I was at in that town. I just knew where I was going and even then I had never been to that place. So I could only say that I'm between the hotel and this location that I'm going to, but Lilly had no idea where I was at in the town. And so I really felt kind of trapped in the car and it's not the easiest thing to jump out of a car when you have a guide dog with you . So that was definitely a trip of the lifetime for me.

Sara Brown: 4:00

No, that is terrifying. That is.

Meagan Gorsuch: 4:03

Yeah, it was. I did not use any rideshare services for a very long time after that.

Sara Brown: 4:11

My gosh. Danielle, what about you?

Danielle Burton: 4:14

So I've not had anything like that quite that traumatizing yet . I hope I don't, I tend to have people either pull up and then drive away. I have had a few where they tried to tell me no dog. And I think one of the biggest ones I had , uh, was actually when I was leaving Best Buy, I went to Best Buy and was heading back and one of the Best Buy employees was actually helping me, you know, locate my Uber. And the guy was like, no dog, no dog. And um , the employee actually stood up for me and was like, no, it's against the law . Like he made sure I got into that vehicle. Um, and I was a little bit uncomfortable on the way all the way back home and I , um, called my fiance and was like, you're staying on the phone with me until I get home because I almost got denied.

Sara Brown: 5:24

You know, I've working in this field, I've heard of many instances where a person with a, with a guide dog is trying to secure a rideshare and the rideshare will pull up and say no, and then just pull on off or just refuse service right then and there. That's so sad.

Meagan Gorsuch: 5:42

Yeah. Usually what I do is I'll screenshot the ride, but after being traumatized, if they're really adamant about not taking the dog, I just tell them, okay, you can go, but I have your information. And then if they wanna drive off, I let them drive off because I am not going to be put myself in a car to get yelled at again, where I feel like I have no way out.

Sara Brown: 6:09

No, you're absolutely right. And that , that's, that's dangerous and terrifying. Now when you're talking about these, is these experiences, about how many times have you had problems securing a ride, share , share or have had problems, you know, when you're in the vehicle, like you discussed earlier, Megan ?

Danielle Burton: 6:28

Um, for me it doesn't, it's not too bad here and Louisville . Um, I , I really think this is only because my dog is super small and people probably don't see her. Um , you know, I guess that's one advantage of having quite a small , uh, Labrador, but I get it if , you know, maybe once out of, you know, eight to 10 times I , you know, once or twice, so maybe about 20% of the time I get denied here in Louisville. But it, it seems like it varies from city to city about how receptive they are. I , I know when I was flying to the airport from Orlando last year , um, the guy was a complete jerk and basically , um, tar Tyler with my fiance was like, oh, well if I knew there was gonna be a dog I wouldn't have stopped and picked you guys up. And it was like a whole group of us trying to get to the airport. Um , and the only reason to we made is just because , um, he's , my fiance sent me a around the back while the driver didn't look, so I , I'd already gotten it.

Meagan Gorsuch: 7:42

Yeah, I definitely agree with Danielle about the percentage of times that we've had that, you know, being denied. But like Danielle said, it really helps when you travel with somebody else because then you can figure out what's the best way or you can hide the dog. And then , um, I will see it like if you're at the airport, I will have my dog sit, I'll be standing up and my dog will sit between my legs and be looking forward and I will put the suitcase in front of my dog and then I usually have another backpack that I can also put like on a bench and they won't see the dog until too late. And I've already started getting her in the car because she's the first thing I put in the car before I put my suitcase in. I don't, I don't think it's fair that we have to think of different tactics to figure out what we're gonna do and I don't ever put my dog in the car if I actually think they're gonna drive away. Um, and then when I'm traveling alone, if they want to drive away, I'll let them drive away.

Sara Brown: 8:45

Wow. So you're essentially sort of camouflaging your dog...

Meagan Gorsuch: 8:48

Yeah.

Sara Brown: 8:49

To blend in or you know, to shield her or shield them. So when then when they get, then when you know you're putting her in the vehicle. Right,

Meagan Gorsuch: 8:58

Right .

Danielle Burton: 8:58

I have also done this,

Meagan Gorsuch: 9:01

I did have one situation where I opened the door and all I had was a backpack and a dog and I went to put her in the car and I thought the car started rolling so I jumped back and didn't even close the door, I just jumped back and luckily my dog hadn't quite fully started to get in, so I was able to grab her harness and pull it back out. Um, so after that I quit putting her in the car first <laugh> . So I really think there's just not really a way around it

Sara Brown: 9:28

Now for those that have never ordered a rideshare. Can you talk about the process of ordering one? You know, is there a way to mention that there will be a dog guide along for the ride or if you're using a cane?

Danielle Burton: 9:41

Um, I'll go ahead and speak to this Megan . 'cause I just found out a few things this past week Washington seminar , um, in the past or has not been , uh, I just heard from NFB National Federation of the Blind President Riccobono. I just heard from him just this past Monday that , uh, Uber is now implementing where you, after you've requested your ride, you can't, you have the option to notify that you are traveling with a guide dog. And this is certainly just, you know, it's not mandatory or any of that nature. You know, some of us are more comfortable doing now than others. Um, and in doing so, I've been told that it will , it will not notify the driver until after, you know, the device been fully confirmed and all of that so that , you know, they can't just see that the dog, that there's a dog and you know, not confirmed a ride. Um , and also if they do cancel the ride, there will be a notification on their end. It says, you know, by cancer canceling this ride, you are violating Uber policy and not taking a, you know, service animal. So there , there's a clear indication that if they choose to do that they are violating the policy. If they go ahead and cancel it, it's going to be easier to file your service animal denial complaint. I don't think it's fully released yet. I know that the National Association of Guide dog users have been tested in it.

Meagan Gorsuch: 11:37

I actually heard about that, but I think that you really covered everything that I read and I actually forgot about part of it . So Danielle , you did great with that. So one thing I want to add to that is that when , before when there wasn't an option for that , um, if I was traveling alone, I would text the driver and let them know if I had a service dog and then if they didn't want to take the dog, I would let them cancel it and then I would just book a new ride and tell them, Hey, I have a dog. And usually , um, I would do that when I don't have to be somewhere at an exact time. I have time to get to where I need to go and I have time to deal with if I get denied. And um, a lot of times I end up getting a dog lover that loves my dog and they will spend the whole ride talking about their dogs . So it's nice to know that now we can push this button and it sounds like it might be something that can be better.

Sara Brown: 12:44

So when a driver is denies a rideshare, are, are they reprimanded? Do you, do you either of you all know that if they are or if there's some sort of repercussion for that driver?

Meagan Gorsuch: 12:55

Um,

Danielle Burton: 12:56

So it depends. I know Lyft, I , I believe they're immediately suspended. Um, Uber, I I think from what I've been told has it had to be like so many times and they do the investigation, usually you get reimbursed $15 or something like that for you inconvenience, so to speak. And I , I don't know how many times a driver is reported before they get, you know, revoked from using, you know, from being a driver. But I do know if it happening, from what I've gathered, none that I've ever reported have gotten. But , but that doesn't mean that they couldn't have done it and denied it somewhat later. I dunno .

Meagan Gorsuch: 13:50

I would agree with that. And also the process to file that complaint. Like I, I had to jump through so many loops to get a full refund for the rides, but if I was inconvenient two times in a row that $15 isn't always going to cover where I was going to go. You're going to give me a full refund. And I had to jump through a lot of hoops to do that, but I would rather jump through all of those hoops than get in a car and have somebody chewing me out the whole ride.

Sara Brown: 14:24

No, you're absolutely right. And so this new way, this new system that'll soon I guess that I'll assume be, will be rolled out in the future, will make it easier to track and hopefully get reimbursed if that happens or if they, if they deny um, a ride. Wow. Now what would you like to see for the future of ride shares?

Meagan Gorsuch: 14:46

I think aside from what Danielle talked about, I think that um, it would be nice to add if we have multiple disabilities. So for example, me being deaf , um, getting a call with somebody that may not be from the US them having a an accent is really hard sometimes to pick up on what's going on. And that has led to some issues in some of the rides, such as finding out that the wrong address was selected to go somewhere. And I plan to talk a little bit about that later.

Danielle Burton: 15:26

I agree. I think to , you know, even just, I, I know they have the capability of doing this, but you know, most of the drivers, at least here in Louisville, don't speak English. And if you're, you know, blind or deaf, blind like myself, it's really hard to know. You know, when I say you're here, it's like where do I go? Am I really at the right place? And it is just really difficult to communicate with the driver and being able to select, you know, I really do want someone who speaks English or even having the capability of being able to text the driver and have it translate back to them in their own language and vice versa would be very great. I , I've gotten a few text messages from Uber Eats drivers and Uber drivers, although clearly Spanish, I , I have no idea I pick out a word or two 'cause it had some Spanish, but I don't know .

Meagan Gorsuch: 16:28

Yeah. Or even , um, an option to that you could go to your phone, like if you put that you need communication access for example, then the driver could get a new screen on the app and then if they can click I'm here, then different communication options will come up. And it could be like a button that says you've arrived at the front door of your office. So you could have an option that says front door, side door, back door , garage. Uh, and then it would give us an option to say, oh, okay, well actually can you pull up to this part of where you need to go? Because for example, hospitals have several different influences and if you go in one side of the hospital, you can't always get to the other side. So saying, Hey, you've arrived at your front door through the app. Then people like Daniella and I would get a notification on the , our screen of what the driver is trying to tell us. And I think that that would help a lot.

Sara Brown: 17:37

Those are good suggestions. Those are really good suggestions and and ideas. Now is there anything else you would like to discuss? It could be about anything ride share or Danielle about the recent travels that you've been on or anything you've experienced out in the field, Megan , anything?

Meagan Gorsuch: 17:53

So one thing that I have noticed is, you know, technology isn't always perfect and I went into an issue while I was at the Helen Keller National Center and there were two addresses that were similar. One was where I needed to go, another one was an hour away. So I had picked the one of where I needed to go, but voiceover picked the one that was an hour away and the complete opposite direction. And at the time, Uber didn't have the emergency button that says, Hey, I don't feel safe. I don't know if they still have it or not, I haven't checked they should . Um , but for me it would've been nice to just be able to push the button and then see what would happen. And instead I'm yelling at the driver to stop driving and say , Hey, you're going the wrong way. You're supposed to turn right , not luck . And of course, English isn't his first language or I guess I should say he isn't fluent in English because you could have English as your second language and be fluent. So after us arguing in the car and my friend is in the back seat , and so now not just me, you know, there's two of us here that are not feeling safe. And um, so I put the numbers nine one one on my phone. I if I was going to make a call and I said, you can turn around or pull over , you have two options , turn around or pull over or I'm going to call 911. And at that point I had the GPS on, with technology becoming better, you can have more than one app running . So I could call 911 and use the GPS and said , okay, we've just passed this street, we're on this street, we turned left or whatever. And um, he did eventually pull over and take us where we needed to go. But it was, it felt like a long car ride because I thought, oh, well first maybe there was a road closed or something and then I went, wait, no , because if there were any roads closed we would've toned. So that's kind of two times that I've been trapped in the car. So it would be nice to have some better communication access in situations like that.

Sara Brown: 20:15

My goodness. So did you report that or anything or, I mean, what do you do in that experience?

Meagan Gorsuch: 20:22

The first experience that I had , um, I did email Uber and they just sent like a copy and paste email, sorry for your experience or whatever . And then the second time I had called them and said, Hey, your uh , app isn't working with voiceover and I was almost taken to the completely wrong place. And so they said okay, they would fix it and they did fix it because I do have some addresses that are similar where I live and I'm able to pick the address I want.

Sara Brown: 21:00

What about you, Danielle? Do you have anything else you'd like to share or about anything about whether it's ride shares or your recent travels?

Danielle Burton: 21:08

Um, I, I would say, you know, I, I think I'm with Megan on the having better communication in place. You know, I went to Cherokee Park the other day and while back with my dog and they're like, oh, you're here. I'm like, okay. And they literally dropped me off in the middle of the street and I had to like get out of the street and touch my friend that I was with. I'm like, I think I'm here. But I think they rocked me kind of in the street. So she found me. But like I , you know, that's happened a couple of times where they dropped me up practically in the street.

Meagan Gorsuch: 21:46

Yeah, well even , um, I, I was actually, I've actually ridden in Ubers with Danielle a couple of times and I remember one time they dropped us off or tried to drop us off on the wrong side of her apartment complex and I said, no, keep going and tone so that we could be closer and not have to weave between calls that were in the parking lot. And at first they were like, no, no, no, get out. And I said, no, go kind loud and dropped us off where we want to be. And there was one time we went somewhere and we got dropped off off and we were almost like in a driveway kind of thing. And because , uh, I hadn't been there, I'm trying to figure out, okay, where are we in relation to where we're supposed to be at? And it turns out that where we were supposed to be at was kind of behind us. We were in the right area, but we weren't close enough to the front door. So if at all , uh, I guess inconveniences that we deal with being blind and oftentimes what I would do is if I'm going somewhere that's complicated like a hospital , uh, I'll say, okay, I want it to be dropped off at door by the ER for example. And then I know that one hospital I can go around the ER and not actually go through and that's the easiest way. Or I can say, drop me off at the front door here. I can be specific about what I want and I'll type it to them before they get to me . So they'll read it before they start driving, but that doesn't always work out. And then there was another time where we got somewhere and Danielle says, this doesn't feel right. And I said, well, I haven't been here, but I can tell you it doesn't look right. So we had to drive around the circle and then , uh, I saw one , I went , stop, let's get out here. Just because I saw water and we got out and we figured out where we were supposed to go. <laugh> .

Sara Brown: 23:44

What would you say to someone traveling with a guide dog or with a cane that's ordering a rideshare? Um, what advice would you give to them?

Danielle Burton: 23:54

I would first say, or you know, get your ride way before you need to actually leave. Especially if it's something that you need to be on time for. Because sometimes it might take two or three tries to get a ride. Um, I've shown up really early to things , which is great. Um, but I've also started scheduling my ride before very early and still gotten there kind of late. I , I think Sara, you know, this has happened to me before. I schedule my ride at like 7:50 and it might be almost nine o'clock before I get a ride and worry because of the denial that's happened on a couple of occasions and not because I was, you know, waiting too late to schedule a ride. It is just, I've had a couple denials in a row.

Meagan Gorsuch: 24:50

Right. Yeah, I would definitely agree with that plan early. Uh , and, and Danielle kind of laughs at me because , um, I was thinking I had , i , I go visit her, I would say about once a year-ish and the first time that I flew out I said, okay, I need to book my a my Uber an hour before I actually went ride . And she started laughing and she said, yeah, you probably should. But then it happened that I got , um, accepted I guess you could say. And so I missed out on that one hour more of hanging out with her. But she was saying, yeah, I completely agree. So I ended up sitting at the airport longer than expected. I did get to wear my dog out in the airport though, so that was one advantage I got to Tyler her out before a flight . And then the other thing is it's really up to your personal preference, but for me, I would rather know before the driver shows up if they're not gonna take my ride. Because often what will happen is I pick the ride, I tell them I have a service dog and I explain that she has task and she helps me. And then if they cancel my ride, then I've saved that little bit of time of waiting for the ride because I can go ahead and book another one right away instead of waiting for them to show up. But that one is really personal preference. However, I do have a German Shepherd, so I do like to give them that heads up that I do have a dog. So they're not completely startled because I have had people come up or pull up and they say, "Hey , um, is that a police dog? No , she's a guide dog. Well, does she bite? No." So I think that for me, given that heads up , they're already prepared for okay, they're going to see a dog. And the other thing is having extra money put aside because if your ride does get canceled, you don't automatically get refunded for that ride. So make sure you have more money in an account somewhere that you can use just for Uber and put that money aside so that you're not out money. If you've gotten denied twice, you don't have that money.

Danielle Burton: 27:19

One thing I would add , um, you know, if you're traveling in Washington, D. C. You're better off to stay around and get a taxi than you are getting Uber or Lyft. Uh , kind of found that out this week. So

Meagan Gorsuch: 27:32

Yeah . Would you say that,

Danielle Burton: 27:34

Yeah, just pro tip <laugh> , do

Sara Brown: 27:37

You , would you like to share some of your experiences of what , of what you were doing? Are you able to talk about that?

Danielle Burton: 27:43

Yeah, sure. I was , um, I just spent this past week me and two other members of , uh, NFBA Kentucky affiliate , uh, in Washington, D.C. At the NFB Washington seminar. Um , and that is something that NNFP does every year and they saw what , you know, two or three priority legislative issues that they want to bring to our members of Congress. So I went, flew , uh, so flew from Louisville, KY to D.C. On Sunday and arrived back home yesterday. And, you know, since we are talking about ride share and transportation, you know, it, it was a very good experience overall. Um, of course I love my guide dog home , so I didn't have any service dog denials, but we did , um, you know, try to get Ubers a few times and they kept, you know, it was weird because the requests were so long, so we ended up canceling our Uber and just getting into taxi 'cause taxis are like driving everywhere in that area and would just like pull up, which I thought was really cool and kind of convenient to be honest with you .

Meagan Gorsuch: 29:04

That is very interesting. I do find myself , um, in cities that have taxis in the area, I will try using them first before I go to Rideshare just because they're usually more aware of the a DA and they don't mind having the dogs in because most taxi companies require you to have your car washed a certain number of times a week or you have to at least vacuum it. So for them, oh, a little bit of dog hair , no big deal. I'm going to vacuum tomorrow anyways, but with wide , I seem to notice more issues with that or getting cleaning fees because now they have to wash their car. Well

Danielle Burton: 29:48

I think part of that's because they're not using their personal vehicles for taxis . They're using, you know, their company vehicles. Um, and I think part of it is that women that they're using their personal vehicles, which the Department of Justice and Transportation already ruled that the moment you open that vehicle up to the public is, you know , you're entitled, you know, you have to follow a DA law, but at the same time people are still, I think we get denials because people still say, well , it's still my personal vehicle, I can do what I want.

Meagan Gorsuch: 30:28

I would agree with that.

Sara Brown: 30:30

Thank you Danielle. Thank you Megan for coming on and talking to me on Changemakers.

Danielle Burton: 30:36

It was fun.

Meagan Gorsuch: 30:36

Thank you so much for inviting us

Danielle Burton: 30:38

Back. Yeah, thank you.

Sara Brown: 30:42

Now we're learning what you can do. Should you have an unfortunate experience with The Rideshare. I have American Council of the Blind, director of Advocacy and Governmental Affairs, Claire Stanley. Hello Claire and welcome to Changemakers.

Claire Stanley: 30:56

Thank you.

Sara Brown: 30:57

And for my first question I always like to ask is, can you introduce yourself and share what it is that you do at a ACB?

Claire Stanley: 31:05

Yeah, thanks. Um, so my name's Claire Stanley. I'm the Director of Advocacy and Governmental Affairs for the American Council of the Blind.

Sara Brown: 31:14

And can you talk about what ACB does and its mission?

Claire Stanley: 31:18

Absolutely. So the American Council of the Blinder, ACB is a membership organization that's been around since 1961. We are a community of people who are blind or have low vision from across the country. Um, and that's, you know, a big part of who we are is just bringing the blind community together to support each other. We also do a lot of advocacy work , um, per my job description, my title. Um, but yeah, we're, we're just a community of blind individuals there to support one another. We are made up of 60 plus , um, affiliates ranging from geographic , um, locations as well as what we call special interest affiliates, like students , um, attorneys, et cetera . We're just a place where we can come together, support each other and advocate with each other.

Sara Brown: 32:04

Wonderful. And in this podcast we're discussing various experiences, individuals who are blind or low vision have encountered while securing rideshares. What do you recommend a person do if they experience problems?

Claire Stanley: 32:19

Absolutely. I know it can be exhausting sometimes, but as persons who are blind or have low vision, we have to advocate for ourselves more often than we'd probably like. Um, so I often tell people that they should advocate for themselves with the ride denials in a few different ways. Always report it through the app, directly to the rideshare company. Also go to the Department of Justice's website , um, and report it@ada.gov on their website. Those are the two main , uh, first things you should do, but also just, you know, be aware of what's going on. Different programs across the country are always doing things. For instance, I get my guide Dogs from Guide , uh, guide Dogs for the Blind, excuse me. And I know they have done some research and many of the other schools have. So just do your research, but first and foremost, report to the company and to the Department of Justice. And from there just do your, do your due diligence and see what else might be going on

Sara Brown: 33:17

And what do you see as a potential way or a possible way to rectify these issues?

Claire Stanley: 33:23

So that's a great question. I often tell people that as somebody who's worked in the advocacy space for quite a few years, I personally don't see there being one solution. I see us needing to use multiple tools. Um, as somebody who's done advocacy for a long time, I think it, there's , uh, a lot of times kind of the , um, multi-step approach. So I think we definitely need to go through the different venues of the potential legal venues where we report it to the companies and to the federal government. I also think we need to continue to do advocacy through things like social media , um, talking to reporters, things of that kind to get the awareness out. I'm still always dumbfounded by , uh, you know, talking to my sighted friends about it and they're like, that happens. Um, so I think awareness is still key. I also think being creative with different ideas on how we can work. Um, we're currently working, we meaning a CB have been working with Uber on their self ID option. Um, I think the, you know, jury is still out on how effective that'll be, but I think it's a great example of trying something new , um, and seeing if it works. I think all the blind community organizations guide dogs , schools, et cetera . Collaborating is great. So again, I often say I don't think there's one solution. I think it's throwing the spaghetti at the wall in many ways and seeing what what'll be effective.

Sara Brown: 34:52

And before I let you go, is there anything else you would like to discuss? Whether it be , um, securing ride shares or anything with ACB?

Claire Stanley: 35:02

I just always encourage people to check ACB out. We're a great community of people from the blind and low vision community. Again, we have members from across the geographic , um, community as well as special interests. So I guarantee you can find a group , um, that will be , um, a part of your , um, your background. That'll be a great place to get involved , um, and , and build a community. And again, even just a place where for this, this situation with rideshare denials, you can find people who are going through the same thing and can su and can support each other. I think that's one of the best things about ACB is just the ability to be there for each other. We get each other, we've had the same life experiences and so we can support each other and brainstorm , uh, different solutions together. Um, there's nothing better than a community of people in my opinion.

Sara Brown: 35:54

Alright , Claire, thank you so much for coming on Changemakers and talking to me today.

Claire Stanley: 35:58

Yeah, thank you so much for the invitation.

Sara Brown: 36:01

I've put links in the show notes to ACB's website and the ADA website, Claire mentioned earlier. Do you have a podcast idea? Send it to me by emailing changemakers@aph.org. And as always, be sure to look for ways you can be a change maker this week.