Welcome to the GP Soccer Podcast! (S14 E4)

                           Welcome to the GP Soccer Podcast!  (S14 E4)

Proud member of the Sports History Network and endorsed by the National                                                  Soccer Coaches Association of Canada.     

Host Giovanni Pacini welcomes his worldwide audience to yet another exciting show. Don't forget this season will feature World Cup "bonus content" throughout the season and beyond!

This week's "Conversation with the Coach" is with the legendary Dr. Joe Machnik where he shares his perspective on the game throughout his illustrious career. The conversation also includes "Dr. Joe's" new book- "From the Sandlots to the World Cup: Inside 7 Decades of American Soccer". "Coaches Corner" features David Hart where he discusses the value of bringing in guest coaches. "News and Analysis" will feature Giovanni Pacini and Ralph Ferrigno checks in with the European Soccer Report.  The "American Soccer Revolution" features an article entitled- "The Sickness at the Center of Youth Sports".

The GP Soccer Podcast features new shows every Wednesday and can be found anywhere you listen to your podcasts. Listeners are encouraged to "Like" and "Subscribe" the GP Soccer Podcast and share the show amongst those within their social media network! Those interested in advertising on the show can contact host Giovanni Pacini at gp4soccer@yahoo.com. And be sure to check out the show website at www.gpsoccerpodcast.com. 

                    GP Soccer Podcast enjoys continued support from-
United Goalkeeping Alliance - Music Meets Sports - National Soccer Coaches Association of Canada - The Sports History Network - Feedspot.com - GP Voice Over Services - Zone 14 Coaching

GP Soccer Podcast welcomes a new sponsor- Zone 14 Coaching! Check it out at Zone14coaching.com. Use promo code GP20 for 20% off!

To purchase a signed copy of Dr. Joe Machnik's book- "From the Sandlots to the World Cup: 7 Decades of American Soccer", e-mail "Dr. Joe" at joemachnik@no1soccercamps.com. Be sure to mention the GP Soccer Podcast!

Enjoy the show!

Transcript

SPEAKER_08 1:21

Well, hey there, everyone. Giovanni Picini here, your host of the GP Soccer Podcast. Great to be with you once again talking about all things soccer. We got a terrific show today. I know I say that all the time, but I think we do have a terrific show today. So I figured let's just dive right in. You know, the if you're a regular listener to the show, we have a terrific segment called Conversation with the Coach. Now, oftentimes I change that. It could be conversation with the coach, conversation with an author, conversation with an administrator, you know, conversation with, heck, fill in the blank. Well, today it's a conversation with a legend. And our guest today in that segment is the legendary, and I do mean that, Dr. Joe Mochnick. And he is arguably one of the most impactful soccer professionals in U.S. soccer history. And among other things, we will discuss his new book, From the Sandlots to the World Cup, inside seven decades of American Soccer. You are not going to want to miss that conversation. In Coach's Corner, we're going to have the terrific coach, Coach David Hart. He's going to be talking about bringing in guest coaches. And I can kind of speak firsthand if I can pontificate for a half a second here. I had the great opportunity to work with Coach Hart up at Fryborough Academy in Freiburg, Maine, where he has brought me in on numerous occasions to work with his high school team there. And it's a lot of fun. And I give uh I give uh folks like Dave Hart and coaches like him kudos for um for bringing in outside voices to help train their team. Soccer news and analysis uh will come from the Associated Press. You'll also enjoy uh this week's European Soccer Report with Ralph Rigno. In the American Soccer Revolution, I'm gonna share with you an article uh that was written by Doc uh by Jonathan Marler, and he's a sports columnist for the Bloomberg View, and it is it is entitled The Sickness at the Center of Youth Sports. You're not going to want to miss uh that segment of today's show. We move rapidly. Checking boxes, checking boxes, checking boxes. I want to kind of keep you up to date is what's going on here in the Boston area uh regarding the World Cup. Uh it's always drama around here in Boston. Um if you grew up in the city of Boston like I did, you you you know politics, you know how things work around here. It's never easy, it's always fascinating and get messy and muddy and nasty sometimes, but uh somehow things things do get uh accomplished. So um as you as I share with you uh I think last week, uh, and I think if you've followed this, you you know this already. But just for those who might not not know, um the select board uh in the town of Foxborough finally officially gave its thumbs up uh to host the uh seven uh World Cup games that are gonna be played over at Gillette Stadium, and it was unanimous, it was 5-0. Um you know, it was pretty quick vote, and it and it it put an end to uh a battle, and I'll use that, a battle that that was, I guess, about over a month. Um and it, let me tell you something, folks, it posed a real threat that that FIFA would have had to move games out of out of this area, and that's not hyperbole. That was a reality. Can you just imagine having to move seven games uh which included it includes a quarterfinal from one venue and try to find another venue that at this short notice um you know try to try to accommodate it? Now, thankfully that didn't happen. Um these were pretty intense negotiations, uh, and it it covers you know several several layers of uh bureaucracy here, if you will. And it was local, it was state, federal, and you're talking about the the the Boston 26 Committee and the Kraft Group. Um, and it was it was finally reached a settlement that that satisfied satisfied the town. Um the chairman of the of the select board, uh Bill Juncum, um, he was asked if he was kind of surprised that the issue took so long. And uh he said yes. He said yes, because as he noted here, uh they knew what the requirements were going to be. And uh unfortunately he says it just seems like Boston 26, uh, which is the local organizing committee, was behind the eight-ball from a funding point of view. Um but the long and short of it, ladies and gentlemen, that uh they did get the thumbs up and uh there is no panic that having to we're being forced to move the the um matches from uh Gillette Stadium or Boston Stadium as it is called for the World Cup to another venue. My goodness, what a horror show that would have been. Um, you know, along the same lines here with the drama that is the World Cup here in Boston, parking is going to be a horror show. Uh parking around Gill well, Gillette Stadium or Boston Stadium. I mean, it's gonna be few and far between. It's gonna be pretty, pretty uh scarce. Um, yeah, as the as the World Cup starts uh in June, which is I it's I guess close to eighty odd days. Um and it's putting a real, uh real burden on the state of Massachusetts public uh transportation system, and um it's gonna have to meet some real, real, serious travel demands for the thousands and thousands and thousands of folks who are gonna descend upon Boston Stadium uh over the course of those several weeks that the uh games are being uh being held. Um one of the biggest challenges is due to the fact that the number of available parking spots for the general public near the stadium is really gonna drop. Now it's typical uh for an event like what's occurring at at uh Gillette Stadium or Boston Stadium, is typically 20,000 uh you know parking spots for a major event. But it's been cut down to 5,000. It's been cut down to 5,000, which is a 75% drop. Um now this tournament, as you might expect, is expected to bring oh upwards to two million, if not more than two million, visitors to the greater Boston area come June and July. Um, you know, as well as the the tourists that are gonna come uh for our 250th anniversary, which you know is is July 4th. There's a lot of big, big events going on. And as you might expect, you don't have to be uh an expert in transportation, you're a public transportation. This is going to exhaust, exhaust, if nothing else, the rental cars. You know, if you're gonna come here and you want to kind of you know get around Boston on your own, you want to rent a car, you better get one now. Uh you may not get them as the tournament gets closer and closer. Um and not to mention the the the folks we're gonna get on the on the on the T, which is what we call our metro system here in Boston, and they're expected to move about 20,000 passengers or people on the commuter rail between South Station, which is in Boston, and then uh Boston Stadium uh you know during uh during the matches. Um the stadium is uh holds about 64,000 people, and we've got uh Haiti and England, Ghana, France, Norway, Scotland, and Morocco. They're all scheduled to play at Gillette. Uh so if you have tickets to the uh World Cup here at Boston Stadium or Gillette Stadium here in the Winningland area, plan now for how you're going to get out and about. Uh whether it's renting a car, whether it's using public transportation, Ubering, whatever, but plan sooner than later because it's it's um it's gonna be potentially be hectic. Which which leads me to the last checking boxes, checking boxes here. Um has all of this, and I guess I kind of asked this rhetorically, is this a big wet blanket, you know, uh on you know, uh being thrown over Boston by with our hosting here uh the World Cup for this event? Um I'll share with you some uh some pieces here from uh a great article from the from the Boston Globe written by several authors here. Uh I'm just gonna paraphrase some of these. I I would encourage you to go to uh to the Boston Globe and and look up this article because it's it's it's pretty uh pretty detailed. Um so I'll give you a little bit of a teaser here. After years of anticipation and preparation, Boston's bold dream of hosting the planet's signature sporting spectacle, the World Cup, now hangs unexpectedly in the balance amid a bitter clash over unresolved yet relatively insignificant security costs. And you know now in my reporting here that that's been taken care of. Uh but it adds to the story here. Um but this dispute points to something far more concerning. Business leaders around Greater Boston say the drama around the security issue points to a deeper dysfunction and looming financial troubles within the organizing committee, which is now scrambling to pull off the event in less than three months. Whispers became headlines last week when a town of leaders of the suburban Foxborough, the site of Gillette Stadium, where Boston's seven World Cup matches are to be held, again refused to grant a permit for the games until the organizers provide upfront nearly$8 million for security costs. The dust up has raised uncomfortable questions about Boston's preparations for the massive event, now less than 100 days away. It's unclear if organizers will be able to pull off their grand vision or if plans have to be scaled back, perhaps dramatically, in the facing of funding shortfalls and logistical snafuos. Boston Soccer 26 host committee, dominated by allies of Patriots owner Robert Kraft, appears well short of the$170 million goal it said it needed to stage a World Cup that could draw 2 million visitors to Greater Boston. Exactly how short remains a mystery. The flap in Foxborough pushed Boston Soccer 2026 to make a rare public disclosure. It revealed it only has$2 million in the bank, though it said it uh anticipated depositing another$30 million soon. Uh the article goes on to say that Boston is far from alone in facing World Cup fundraising woes. The eleven host cities in the United States are all waiting for the federal government uh to release promised funds. All 16 host sites, a group that includes five cities in Mexico and Canada, face another sober reality. FIFA, the International Soccer Soccer Foundation, has already locked in exclusive sponsorship deals with corporate corporate giants like Coca-Cola and Bank of America that effectively shut out many regional players from World Cup action. And lastly, I'm not going to read the whole thing here, but kind of a highlight here. The Fan Fest. Slater for Boston City Hall Plaza, a standard feature of the World Cup tournament, once had grand ambitions, rendering show multi-story stages swarming with hordes of fans. If money falls short, it may have to be dramatically downsized. And again, this is a rather lengthy article written by Danny McDonnell, Emmett Platform of the Boston Globe. And I encourage all of you, even if you're not from the Boston area, if you just want to learn the dramatic uh uh you know turn of events that has taken place um trying to get this all sorted out, it's it's worth reading. It's worth reading. But you know what? Um it's typical Boston. It's typical Boston. So there you have it. Our checking boxes, checking boxes, checking boxes. We're gonna break for a commercial message. You know how that works. And on the other side, we're gonna come back with conversation with the coach with the legendary Dr. Joe Mocknick. I'm Giovanni Pacini. This is the GP Soccer Podcast. Don't you dare go anywhere because you know what happens if you do, I will hunt you down. Youth soccer has changed. Expectations are higher, but systems haven't kept up. Coaches juggle endless tasks, players chase progress they can't measure, and clubs struggle to create consistency across teams. Zone 14 coaching was built for this moment. A company built by coaches or coaches, Zone 14 coaching next generation journals where coaches and players help plan every practice, reflect on what worked, and track progress all season long. Built on intentional coaching and backed by neuroscience, Zone 14 coaching brings structure and purpose to your training. The founders of Zone 14 Coaching watched it awe as some of the game's best tacticians and mentors spent every precious moment with a simple pen and paper, meticulously sketching, writing, and planning in a journal. It was a powerful and humbling sight. The foundation of great coaching was a commitment to preparation and a passion for player development. This simple observation sparked a question What if we could give every coach, from the passionate parent at the recreational level to the club coaching director, access to the same level of structured, thoughtful planning? Zone 14 Coaching is the answer. Visit zone14coaching.com and use the promo code GP20 for 20% off. And if you want to outfit your entire organization or even just one team, contact Zone 14Coing at zone14coaching.com for bulk pricing. Zone 14 Coaching, where high-level soccer knowledge and structured planning is accessible and simple.

SPEAKER_06 14:20

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SPEAKER_08 15:38

And welcome to the GP Soccer Podcast, Conversation with the Coach. And welcome to the GP Soccer Podcast, Conversation with the Coach. Listen, ladies and gentlemen, um, we've got a terrific guest today, uh, an absolutely wonderful guest. I've been looking forward to this conversation with this gentleman uh because he is indeed uh one of the preeminent soccer professionals here in the United States of America. So who am I talking about here? Well, I'm talking about Dr. Joe Mochnick. Uh and Dr. Joe, as he is affectionately called, is without question one of the most prominent figures in American soccer, known for his extensive career as a player, as a coach, referee, and a broadcaster. He discovered soccer at a young age and became an all-American goalkeeper and earning a PhD from the University of Utah. His memoir, From the Sandlots to the World Cup inside seven decades of American soccer, offers a candid look at his journey in the sport, detailing his contributions to officiating standards and the growth of soccer in America. Now, in addition to all that, Dr. Joe reflects on the evolution of soccer, including the grassroots uh levels of the game, and the impact of the upcoming 2026 World Cup in North America. His insights are particularly timely as he discusses the challenges and development in the sport, making him an extraordinarily valuable resource for the discussions about soccer's future. Dr. Joe Mochnik, welcome to the GP Soccer Podcast Conversation with the coach.

SPEAKER_05 17:24

Well, thank you so much. It's certainly a pleasure to be on with you and thank you for the invitation. I'm looking forward to our discussion.

SPEAKER_08 17:32

Yeah, me too. Me too. There's lots to discuss. And uh, you know, that's not to hyperbole when I say you're you're arguably one of the pre-eminent uh professionals here in the United States, having having worn so, so many hats. But Joe, here's where I like to start with all of my guests, because I'm curious. My I know my audience is curious, curious. Let's go back way back when when you were a kid. Uh share with my audience your your early days as a child growing up. Where did you grow up? Uh, your connections to soccer, your connections to sport, and kind of bring us up to you know your your adult years.

SPEAKER_05 18:03

Thank you. That's a uh unique opportunity. I grew up in the Green Point section of Brooklyn, New York. And there was a park, uh rather large park in our neighborhood that did have a soccer field of sorts. Uh it was inside of a Cinder track, and there were two permanent goals at each end. They were metal, um, aluminum, or steel, who knows, but they didn't have nets or anything on it. But every Sunday there would be a game there uh between uh ethnic teams. Um and I would go out to the park on Sunday just to watch these games because actually I was an avid hockey fan growing up in New York City. Uh, this is at a time when there were only six teams in the National Hockey League, and you you knew every team, you knew every player. They they didn't have names on the back of their uniforms, they didn't wear helmets, they played, each team played each other 14 times, 7 home summit away. So, and the games were played, you know, my parents let me go to the Sunday night game at 7 o'clock. It was not televised, so there were no TV timeouts, so the game would be two hours and five minutes. I'd be home by 9:30. So, so even on a school, so-called school, next day you had school, they you know, they let me go to these games. And I'll tell you, as a high school player with a high school ID, you could get into the old Madison Square Garden for 40 cents. So you had to run up the stairs, there was no escalator, no elevator, and put your coats on the seats in the first three rows because you could only see in the balcony uh the entire ice if you were sat in the first three rows. After that, you would lose ice. So the soccer game reminds me of hockey. Um, obviously, there were goalkeepers, there was uh a scoring of goals, there was a referee and two linesmen, the same as hockey had back then, and I would watch the game, and you know, the game would start at three, end at five, and go to the garden early. Uh, and then, as happens, when I went to high school, I went to Brooklyn Technical High School and sat down in a class with uh uh gentleman next to me, his name was Andrew Sheparovich, and we started talking about hockey. And and he told me he was Ukrainian, and I said, Well, the Boston Bruins have this Ukrainian line: Busik, Johnny Busik, Vik Staziak, and Bronko Horvath. And we, you know, so we immediately hit it off. And he did he said, Do you play soccer? Did you ever play soccer? I said, No. He said, Well, um, we need a goalkeeper on the JB team. You could try out. So he invited me up to the eighth floor gym. Brooklyn Tech was a huge school, uh, 6,000 students, um, all male. Went up to the eighth-floor gym, they put down two gym posts, they put mats on the floor in front of the post, and I went in there and they started taking shots from all kinds of distances. But because I knew hockey and I knew angle play as a goalkeeper just watching it, I couldn't stay on the mats. So I would come off the mats and dive on the hardwood floor, and you know, I guess I was crazy enough to impress the coach that I made the JV team, and then finally, the in my senior year, the varsity team got a half scholarship to Long Island University. We were just beginning to build a soccer program. And that same gentleman, Andrew Sheparovich, took me to his club in New York City, the New York Ukrainians. And it just so happened that one of the Sundays I was watching at McCarran Park in Brooklyn Greenpoint, it was the New York Ukrainians that came as a visiting team with their red and black striped uniforms that drew the biggest crowd. Arguably, you know, this was at a time when you they put ropes around the field and you had these guys with armbands uh trying to keep the crowd from you know getting onto the field. Uh and uh I remember it was kind of like coincidental that I remember the Ukrainians playing there, and now here I was going to play for the Ukrainians with the red and black uniforms as a member of their junior B team in 1958.

SPEAKER_08 22:35

Is it safe to say, I'm curious now, hearing this story, Joe, had you not had that conversation with Andrew, the young man sitting next to you, is it safe to say that you you you would have been a hockey guy and not a soccer guy, or is that a stretch?

SPEAKER_05 22:48

Well, being a hockey guy coming out of New York City, it would have been a stretch. Uh if I hadn't met Andrew, there's no way I would have become a soccer guy. That's 100%. And I and I and I certainly give him all the credit for that. Uh we maintain, he lives in Cleveland now, but we, you know, we obviously still maintain contact. Um but you know, um when I when I took a job after a playing career at LIU and a coaching career at LIU, and then I moved to New Haven. Back in the day, you couldn't get, I'm talking like 1969, it was very rare to get a full-time soccer coaching job at a university college. So you had to take another position in addition to coaching soccer. So when I went to New Haven, I was offered, you could be the sports information director, you could be the intramural director, which I did have some experience with at LIU, or you could be the hockey coach. And I said, Well, yeah, I'll be the hockey coach thinking I knew something about the game. And uh in those three years that I was the hockey coach at New Haven, I learned what I didn't know about the game. But it was certainly uh eye-opening experience for me.

SPEAKER_08 24:04

So safe to say you were a Rangers fan. Those uh those were some glory days. Um I was a hockey guy growing up as well. I was a goaltender. I played uh youth hockey and all the way up to to uh uh to a high level of hockey here in the Boston area. And then the New York Rangers, Boston Bruins, Boston Bruins, Montreal Canadiens, those were some fierce, fierce rivalries. Um what are some of your recollections of of those hockey rivalries uh starting with the Rangers, and maybe the Bruins or maybe the Canadians, and as you say, there was only six teams back then. Were there were there any rivalries that you really enjoyed as a young hockey guy growing up?

SPEAKER_05 24:37

Well, obviously, when when you played Montreal, they were the class of the league uh back then with Rocket Richard, and so a game with the Montreal Canadians was special. Uh who played one game, and you can look it up. His name was Dick Bittner, okay, and he uh was the he owned this uh hockey shop in New Haven where you where our players would sharpen their skates, but he also gave me the referee test because I thought, hey, I was already refereeing a little bit of soccer, so I said, I'm gonna referee some hockey. So I aced a written test, right? Um you know, it was easy for me, but then you had to take a skating test. And Dick Bittner uh gave me the skating test, and you know, it was really important as a hockey referee to be able to skate just before you weren't, I mean they weren't wearing helmets back then, and you had to, you know, not only get out get out of the way of the puck, but get out of the way of the the players and you had to know where to skate, skate backwards, all this stuff. So he said to me after the hockey skating test, he said, I wouldn't be buying if I were you, I wouldn't be buying any special hockey whistles. He said, so I never did become a hockey referee.

SPEAKER_08 25:54

So in in 1969, you moved to New Haven as you noted, it's now the University of New Haven. Um you coached both hockey and soccer. In 76, you haven't played for an NCAA uh Division II National Championship. Um, you having played an NCAA national tournament with LIU in 63 and having coached two national championship games, you became the only person to play coach in two NCAA finals and officiate in NCAA final when you did so in 1988. Um share with my audience that recollection, having, you know, having that kind of success and wearing those kind of hats and uh um having as as a as a coach and uh and then a referee.

SPEAKER_05 26:33

Yeah, so I mean, I did play um for LIU. We finally made the tournament my senior year, 1963. We lost the game to uh first round game to the University of Bridgeport. But like you said, uh when I was off at the coaching job, I inherited a really strong team from my from my coach Gary Rosenthal, who became Dean of Students at Long Island Universities. And he I was his assistant coach for two years, and then took over the team in 66 as a 23-year-old, and we made it all the way to the national championship game. The uh I was it's kind of funny. LIU basketball just made the NCAA tournament. I was looking at the at the March Madness thing, and they're playing their first game away in San Diego against Arizona. And our, when we made the Final Four, so to speak, in soccer, we had to travel to Berkeley, California, and our first game was against Michigan State. And I think um it's kind of strange perhaps to realize that that game ended with an LIU win 7-6 on corner kicks after a 2-2 tie. So, because that was the tiebreaker back then. It obviously changed a few years later. Um, so so LIU, yeah, and then we lost the championship game to San Francisco to a very famous coach, Steve Nogiesco, and uh a team that had you know really great players, including uh Lotha Haciendo, who became a national team coach uh for USA a little bit later on. So in 66 for LIU, I was in the championship game coaching. In 76 for New Haven, we lost the championship game in Seattle to Loyola of uh Baltimore, Maryland. So my two opportunities to win a national championship, we did not win. And then, of course, as a referee, I made it to the 88 final NCAA final. It was Howard at Indiana, and uh I did that game that was won by Indiana 1-0, um, actually on a penalty kick in the 31st minute. So I guess I'm the only player, person, coach, referee who has done all three things. Now I will have to tell you, there's a young lady who is the field hockey coach at North Carolina that played in the national championship game and won it, so she's way ahead of me there. She's coached now for North Carolina and won the national championship game, so she's way ahead of me there. But uh, she's yet to referee the field hockey national championship, so that's up to her. Uh that's a challenge I put out there to her.

SPEAKER_08 29:33

There you go. I'm sure she'll rise to the occasion. Um, so uh your knowledge of hockey combined with soccer officiating, you know, goes on to a career um, you know, in officiating. And uh Walt Chizowitz, legendary Walt Chizowitz, recommended you for the position of referee in chief for the major indoor soccer league. Talk to my audience about those early days of the MISL. I'm of an age uh where I can I can recall the MISL vividly and for a time there with the North American Soccer League at Folded. It was kind of the only show in town. The only show in town. Um what were those days like um in the days of the MISL? And what were the day what was it like for you as uh uh the position of uh uh of game operations uh during that era?

SPEAKER_05 30:20

Well, yeah, I I became uh game operations director and referee-in-chief, which meant uh I assigned the referees to the game, trained the referees for the game. I mean, indoor soccer played an uh ice hockey arena with dasher boards and astro turf, uh artificial turf over ice sometimes or over boards that they put put down over ice. So our game was a combination of of soccer, obviously, but also played with some of the rules of ice hockey. So, like with time penalties, with uh with uh substitutions on the fly, with uh the idea of a three-line pass, which hockey had back then, so we we didn't allow for our players to kick the ball from one end of the field to the other without it touching in in the midfield zone. And even the delay of game, which you're familiar with hockey, if a if a defensive player shoots the puck over the over the glass um, you know, in a defensive posture, then that's a two-minute time penalty. We had the same thing in soccer. So Walter Chesowitz was the uh consultant to the indoor league. The the office was in Philadelphia. He obviously was a Philadelphia legend, uh coaching Philadelphia textile, playing uh for the Philadelphia Ukrainians when they won the Open Cup. So he was familiar with my hockey and refereeing um knowledge, so to speak. And so he offered me uh to interview for the job. And I went out to Philadelphia where the office was and interviewed with the commissioner, Earl Foreman, and he you know gave me the job, and I assigned myself to the first game and also the first all-star game. And then an ultimate thrill for me, I assigned myself to an all-star game that was played in Madison Square Garden, where I had watched you know so many Ranger games. But though those early days of MISL, we had number one, we had great players. Uh, you mentioned the NASL was on the decline. Um, but before it declined, three NASL teams, uh San Jose, Chicago, San Diego also came into MISL. And I mean the quality of play was so high that uh, you know, we were we had games that were um nine scores nine to eight, eleven to six. Um and it would, you know, we were doing great crowds, especially in St. Louis, where they put together a team made mostly made up of St. Louis players, many of them from the national team. So as an entertainment package, it was uh a fantastic show. Unfortunately, and this is in my opinion, the game was so run and gun that you know there there there was a there was an injury factor. Um, and the pla and the owners of the teams making the investments for these players, they put together a rule change, which for me hurt the game drastically, and that was a so-called six-foul rule. And I mean, I lobbied with Earl Foreman, the commissioner, don't do this, don't do it. So, what the six-foul rule was, if a team created the sixth foul, regardless of the player, the team would put a player in the penalty box for two minutes. And that meant that now coaching changed. It wasn't run and gun anymore. Uh, it became more of a zone. You would lose the ball in the attacking third, you would fall back and delay, you didn't want to take a foul in the attacking third that would add up to one of the six. And and so games that were uh nine to six, eleven to five, now all of a sudden we're three to two, and and the worst possible thing, and I was at this game, zero-zero, indoor soccer, zero-zero, a game in Pittsburgh that had to be decided in overtime. And for me, that was the you know, the demise of the entertainment value of the of the game.

SPEAKER_08 34:38

Yeah, because Joe, as you very well know, you know, back in those days, the the big knock on outdoor soccer, where there's no scoring, no scoring, it's boring, no scoring. But yet, when you when you, as you just so aptly described, when when the MISL came out, it was ample scoring. And the casual American sports fan could now get hooked on soccer, albeit an indoor game, because oh my goodness, it was seven to six last night. What a great game. It was back and forth, so many goals.

SPEAKER_04 35:03

Exactly.

SPEAKER_08 35:04

Um, and then the the plug is pulled as as you described. Um, I've had uh as you uh good friends of yours, Keith Tozer and JP Telacamera on my show several times. And in the three of us have talked talked about those days of the major indoor soccer league being the bridge, if you will, from the North American Soccer League to you know to arguably today's MLS. Would you say, Joe, that when we when we saw the demise of the NASL, um that that indoor soccer, specifically the major indoor soccer league, was indeed the the game that kind of kept the kept it at the forefront of people's minds here in the United States?

SPEAKER_05 35:41

Yeah, it was it was it was certainly the uh major indoor soccer league, and then there was another league, the AISA, the American Indoor Soccer League, which uh played in smaller cities and smaller arenas, but those two those two leagues uh kept kept the game alive. You mentioned Keith Toza, he played, for example, in the first game of the MISL, but then he also played and coached in the AISA. So athletes, soccer-playing athletes were able to make a living uh as a professional player, albeit not you know, not to the level they're making livings now. But for that period of time when there was no outdoor soccer, uh the indoor leagues kept, you know, kept the game alive. And then we get like all of a sudden that we begin to qualify, we need to qualify for the 1990 World Cup. But before the 1990 World Cup was the first ever FIFA five-a-side indoor soccer, it later became Futsal World Cup or Championship. And that and and USA with head coach John Kowalski, and I happened to be his assistant for these for that tournament. Um we took the bronze medal uh with a team of players, many of which came from MISL or AISA. And some of those players who had that experience of winning the bronze medal, the first FIFA men's medal ever won, uh by you know, a men's national team, many of those players, Tob Ramos, uh Peter Vermis, Bruce Murray, uh David Vinoli, and quite a few others, uh, Steve Trichou, Mike Windishman, uh many of those players uh who experienced winning for the first time and actually getting a medal became the backbone of the team that had to qualify for 1990. And, you know, a lot has been made, and and I guess this is a bit controversial, a lot has been made about the um the benefit or the value of what the 1994 World Cup team, USA World Cup team did for the growth and development of soccer in America. But an argument can be made that if the 1990 team didn't qualify for Italy, that 94 in America wouldn't have happened. Because there was strong consensus on the part of FIFA that no country had ever hosted a World Cup without first qualifying for a World Cup. And so, I mean, back then the World Cup was a lot small, a lot smaller. Um, but we we actually, and thank, and Bob Gansler, who was head coach of that 1990 team and the 1988-89 qualifying team, and I served as his assistant, uh, he kept the same players. Uh, and so we brought a team to Italy after qualifying of made up of some college players, some semi-pro players, because outdoors started to play a little bit again on a semi-pro level, and some indoor players. And that that was the makeup of our team, which qualified and then went on to represent the U.S. in Italian 90.

SPEAKER_08 39:11

I don't think that story is told enough. Um, specifically, uh, those players who came out of the major indoor soccer league, sustaining the game, while they sustain the game, they become better players who then contribute to that 1990 World Cup team, who then sets up, as you uh put so nicely, the 1994 team going on to qualify. Is that that a safe assumption, Joe?

SPEAKER_05 39:37

I I think so. Um, you know, and I think you're right on. Um there's there's been a couple books about it. Uh, you know, the 90 team, the forgotten generation, the forgotten team. Certainly I cover it in my book, which like you know, we'll talk about in a little bit. Uh but it without 1990, there would have been too great of a gap. Uh you know, ninth we we hadn't qualified for a World Cup since 1950, so 40 years. So, and if we didn't qualify 90, it's not, you know, it's it's it's another four years, and and and we and we would not have known what we were getting into if indeed we would have still been hosting in '94.

SPEAKER_08 40:19

You set me up nicely there, Joe. Uh, you touched upon your book. Let's shift gears for about a second. Um, so what inspired you to write from the sand launch to the World Cup uh inside seven decades of American soccer, and um, I guess by association. What do you hope your readers take away from this book?

SPEAKER_05 40:36

Well, thank you. Uh, you know, you mentioned at the start of this podcast that, you know, I was a player, a coach, a referee, a league administrator. I worked 15 years for Major League Soccer, uh, as well as MISL and AISA. Uh, and and now our broadcast is so people would say, You've you've worn so many hats. You know, why don't you write a book? So so uh I sat down. I I still had a lot of records, a lot of papers. Um I have Commissioner Foreman's original bulletins that he wrote uh in the year in the beginning of MISL. Um and so I started to uh do some research. And over a 20-month period, because that's how long it took, I put together the book you described. Uh yes, it's a part of a memoir, but it's my memoir inside of soccer. Um so I talk about the ethnic leagues in New York City playing on sandlots, places like Eintracht Oval and Metropolitan Oval, Zariga Oval, uh New Farmers Oval, where there wasn't a blade of grass, so that's why we call it sandlots. Um and then, you know, the college game, but LIU in New Haven, and then finally the indoor league, and then MLS, and finally my broadcasting career, which has led me to, you know, work quite a few World Cups, and we have a World Cup coming up. I was fortunate enough to go to um Russia in 2018 and Qatar most recently, and Vancouver for the Women's World Cup. Um, so I'm looking forward to um this World Cup, which we're hosting for a second time here in the United States with the addition of Mexico and Canada.

SPEAKER_08 42:29

The title includes seven decades of American soccer. Joe, do you um do you take a step back every once in a while and and does your head explode for the lack of better terms, Joe? Seven decades, 70 years in American soccer. What does that does that uh give you pause um when you think about that or not?

SPEAKER_05 42:50

Well, you know, that's that's a great question because when you're doing it, you're not thinking about it. So so you don't realize when you're playing in this championship game or coaching this championship game or you're refereeing the first indoor game or whatever. You're not you're not thinking of it, you know, like this is going to be an impact on history or whatever. It's just not now. When you look back from you know, 1953 when I was seeing my first games in McCarran Park and Brooklyn to Here We Are, um, yeah, it's a bit historic. Um, so that's why I uh you know I was able to put together the book in that fashion because it I had those personal contacts. You know, there's 900 names in the book and 115 photos. So I think uh people will get a big kick out of it looking at some of the old photos. I mean, but you know, I was on a podcast just the other day, and we talked about the college game, and and they didn't realize that like when I played college soccer for LIU, we had kick ins instead of throw ins. And and that there were uh periods, two uh four twenty-two minute periods, just like just like what we're gonna have at the World Cup upcoming. Oh, we're gonna get it. So all of a sudden we're gonna have uh we're gonna be almost like playing quarters because it's a mandatory now timeout, regardless of the weather, regardless if it's an indoor field or an outdoor field, you're gonna be a three-minute timeout in the middle of each half. And and so the broadcasters are gonna have a choice of staying on the field with their cameras and trying to hear what the coaches are telling the players or whatever, or going to the studio to see what the studio uh folks are thinking about the first half or the first half of the second half, uh, or or uh or you know, doing video replay or whatever. Uh so it's gonna it's gonna be a whole interesting thing, as well as quite a few rule changes that are gonna be put into place, which we um haven't seen before, except if you've been watching uh a little bit of MLS.

SPEAKER_08 45:09

Well, since you brought it up, uh I'm looking at my show notes here, uh my talking points, and this is one of them. So for those who may not know, so for the upcoming World Cup, FIFA will introduce three-minute hydration breaks in the middle of each half. And as Joe noted, it it basically breaks down the game into four quarters. Um, Joe, your your gut feeling, um, is this just uh FIFA recognizing uh the opportunities to make a boatload of dough by adding another segment or two segments in the game where they could run commercials? Or am I just being cynical?

SPEAKER_05 45:43

Well, you know, I think that certainly plays a part, uh, although the rationale, if you remember in '94, when we hosted the World Cup, we played many games uh at 12 noon or 3 o'clock in the afternoon for television purposes, going back to Europe, where the games would be then on prime time. And so the games were played in hot, humid um conditions, which affected the quality of play. And there was a, you know, there's always a concern about player safety. So uh here we are again, although you know some of the stadiums will be enclosed, but there's the potential of playing an afternoon game, uh, you know, with a hundred-degree degrees out there where where uh a water break uh would be the appropriate thing to do on the basis of player safety. I mean, we've we've seen hydration breaks now in soccer for uh at least six or eight years. So, but it would be up to the referee or the match commissioner to decide uh you know what the temperature was, what the shade cover, all of this that goes into making the decision as to whether or not to do a water break. But now they're just making it mandatory. And I'll say, just going back to the history, so in 62, I watched, I think, what I watched, I think what was the first nationally televised full soccer game in America on a show called Wide World of Sports on a Saturday afternoon ABC, and they showed the FA Cup final, it may have been 61, FA Cup Final between Tottenham Hotspur and Leicester City. No substitutions allowed, no timeouts, obviously, and a player on Leicester City, it was reported at the end of the game that he played the last half with a broken leg. So, and so they they moved him out, you know, to left wing and he became like a decoy. Uh, and and and he actually was standstill and they play the ball off of him. Uh so I mean, so the game has really, really changed in so many ways that from you know, no substitute. Now we can have as many as seven substitutions, five in regulation, plus your concussion substitute, right? Plus, if it goes into overtime, you get an extra substitute. So that's more than half the team.

SPEAKER_08 48:16

And arguably, Joe, that's long overdue. I mean, this the stringency of having no substitutions, and not that long ago, really not that long ago, to where we're at today, a far more sophisticated mindset where we were more liberal with our with our substitutions. It's that's long overdue, wouldn't you say?

SPEAKER_05 48:34

Absolutely. And and you know, certainly the concussion part of it. I mean, there's been so many games that you can recall seeing where you've seen, you know, players hit heads with each other, or a player gets knocked to the ground and hits his head on the ground. Not to mention when, you know, a shot is taken from close range and a player plays it with their head and then falls back and is stunned and you know can't get up and is wobbly. So, I mean, they've really uh I think done a better job with the concussions in soccer. And the one rule change that I would really love to see would actually be the addition of another kind of substitution, so that when a player has a so-called head injury and is being evaluated for the possibility of a concussion, that evaluation doctors tell me could be five to seven minutes, not 30 seconds, right? So bring the player to the sideline, give him, give him or her the thorough evaluation for a head injury, concussion that they deserve, and allow a substitution to go in. And then if that player is cleared to go back in, the one who has uh who was um um you know evaluated, allow that player to go back in, allow the player who substituted for that player to come out, and that substitution doesn't count. So I mean, so if we really care about players, I think I think that's that's uh uh another way to guarantee that a player gets a valid evaluation for possible concussion.

SPEAKER_08 50:21

And a pro and a prime example is the concussion protocols of the National Football League, where that very scenario, as you just so aptly described, takes place where X player comes off the field and goes into the blue tent, and they can substitute the player, and that player who uh went into the tent is deemed okay. He can come back into the game. So there's there's precedent there. There's that that that works. Um so since we're talking about rule rule changes ahead of the World Cup here, let me let me throw a couple of at you here. I'd love to get your your interpretation here. So substituted players now have 10 seconds to leave the pitch. If they take longer, the replacement must wait one minute to enter. What's your thoughts on on that uh that new rule?

SPEAKER_05 51:04

And I'm waiting to see how they're going to. Yeah, I like the rule because we've all witnessed, depending on the score, whether the substituted player coming off is going to run off the field or jog or walk and take the longest route route to get to the bench. Uh so you know, we've seen recently referees say to the player, okay, you're not going to walk to the bench, you're going to go off the touchline on the far side of the field where you know you're closest. So I like this rule. What I what I'm waiting to see is this if if the player does take longer than 10 seconds, and the referee um applies this rule, does the substitute player now, the one who's going to come on, after white waiting for a minute, do they also have to wait for the next stoppage of play? So so so that's the that's the key for me because that could be forever. So it would be like if it's worded, at least a minute or until the next stoppage of play. So uh we'll have to see how that's how that's uh that's used. It's a kind of the same when you talk about rule changes. We're going to you know try to see the game be played faster, or so we have a speed-up rule on throw-ins and a speed-up rule on goal kicks. So we've seen how long some goalkeepers take to put the ball down and you know play it on as a goal kick, or when the ball goes out as a throw-in, how two or three players can't decide you know which one of them is going to throw it in. So, and they take forever. So now the referee, once he or she realizes that delay is taking place, you know, we'll will start a count, just like NBA. So, so you give five seconds, and on a throw-in, if the delay goes past five seconds, now the other team will get the ball. And on a goal kick, if the delay takes five seconds, now this we shouldn't be confused. We're not saying you have to take a goal kick in five seconds. We're saying once the player puts the ball down, if he does so in a timely fashion, and now the delay is taking place, the referee will start a five-second count. And if the delay still happens, then the decision is to, it will be a corner kick.

SPEAKER_08 53:37

And what I envision is, and this all begins and ends with the official, obviously, when will said official begin that count? Because you know, said official could uh you know have to, you know, allot that five-second countdown. But when does he or she decide to start that five-second countdown? There may be three, four, five seconds in, you know, go by before they decide to throw that five-second countdown. I I'd be real curious to see how prompt, and I guess that's the key word, how prompt the official will be uh when beginning that five-second countdown. That that five could turn into ten very, very easily.

SPEAKER_05 54:14

Oh, easily, easily. So it would, you know, it will take five even longer to get the ball to be put into play before the they'll put the ball at the right space for the throw-in or the right side or whatever for the for the goal kick. So you're right. When when does the referee start the five-second countdown? It's gonna be a lot, it's gonna depend on the score and the and the referee and the instructions given to the referees prior to the start of this tournament. So I'll be interested. Uh, you know, the last two World Cups, uh, FIFA has been pretty good with the media conducting a uh session with the media, not only at the beginning of the World Cup, but then after the group stage, on the rule changes and how the how the laws are being interpreted and what to expect from the referees.

SPEAKER_08 55:06

And again, I don't want to be cynical here, um, but I can see in the situations that you and I are talking about here, players distracting the referee, going up and and chatting a bit with the referee to you know to prolong that period of time before the official countdown takes place. I can see all kinds of theatrics taking place just to prolong that uh you know that that time period where the ball has to be be played in. This this on paper looks really good, but we're gonna see in in real time, you know, coming up in June and throughout the course of the tournament, in reality, if this is really going to work. Um one last one. Um VAR will now also be allowed to review second yellow cards and corner decisions if there's a clear mistake. What are your thoughts on that one?

SPEAKER_05 55:55

Well, VAR is always controversial. Um, I mean, when it was started, the initial concept for VAR was to make sure or correct clear and obvious errors made by the referee. And we all, you know, have witnessed over the years games that were decided on clear and obvious errors. We could say, you know, the Maradona handball from God, God uh would be the most. Uh, then you could look at the penalty given to Germany in the final in in 1990 against Argentina, and the fact that Argentina could have had a penalty also, even before that. Um, so many different things. So clear and obvious errors. What's the problem with VAR today, in my opinion, is that this clear and obvious has been applied to clear what we were we cannot some offsite some goals have been taken away by VAR, by semi-automatic offsite technology, which are not clear and obvious to the naked eye, which are only clear and obvious to the computer, and stop action, and what I mentioned, semi-automated off-site technology, and I don't know that that is where um VAR was intended to go, and so there's some of the frustration, but now we've increased the role. Yeah, corner kicks which are unjustly awarded or not awarded need to be adjudicated because quarter kicks lead to goals and corner kicks lead to penalty kicks. And so, either way, if it's incorrect corner kick, you don't want it to be taken, and if a team deserves a corner, you want them to have that opportunity. So I like that. Second yellow cards, that hard that's that that's not gonna come up a lot where a second yellow card resulting in a red means, you know, where a player is being sent off. Um, you know, there were I think there was an incident this just this weekend where uh a player was sent off in the Bundesliga second yellow card uh for simulation. Um I think it was in a Bayern game. And you know, would that now go to video review to see if he there was any contact or you know, did simulation actually take place? This could be this could be tough. Uh, this could be this could delay a lot of stuff, but I hope it doesn't come up that much. You don't see that many second yellow cards in the game.

SPEAKER_08 59:00

You know, my thing with VAR, and I think it's a positive uh new element to our game. The one beef, and I and I think most people would would concur, Joe, uh, there's got to be a time limit on VAR. You and I have seen ad nauseum officials going over to the screen and they stay there, and then there's a fourth official that comes over and they're having a conversation. And before you know, you could have gotten up to go to your refrigerator, grab a meal, and bring it back, and they're still, you know, they're still making some kind of a you know uh assessment as to what goes on. You know, what are your thoughts about a hard time? You go to the screen, you've got X time to make a decision, and then come back on the field and let the let the fans know. What are your thoughts on that one?

SPEAKER_05 59:40

Well, for starters, we have to realize that there's sometimes 12 to 16 cameras around the stadium dealing with VAR, and there's a video operator located at another at another place, um, maybe in a trailer outside the stadium, maybe maybe at another location, who has to find the right video to present the right angle for the referee to be able to make a definitive decision. Did he or she get the call right or are they going to change their original decision? So, I mean, it's clear in the VAR protocol that that getting it right is the what has to be done regardless of the time. So putting a time limit on it, uh GP would be maybe having officials rush their decision or even not making the right decision based upon they haven't yet seen the correct angle. And but you know, recently there was an under-17 World Cup and an under-21 World Cup where a different kind of video review was used, and that was where each coach was given two options or challenge flags, so to speak. And I liked it a lot because you didn't have another official or group of officials in a booth someplace second-guessing the referee as to whether this is clear or obvious. Only a coach would have this challenge, and and only two per game, and maybe it could even be one per game. But but so the coach would make a challenge, the referee would come to the monitor, the V video operator would find the best angle, the assistant referee from that side might come over, or the fourth official, or even fifth official, if there is a fifth official assigned, take the best look and now come out of it and say, Coach, you got it right. I'm changing my decision based on video review, or I'm maintaining my decision. And I think, from what I saw, at least in those two tournaments, referees stood their ground more because it was easy for them to say to a coach, I got it right first time, than it was easy for them to than it was for them to say to their teammate up in the box, I got it right first time, you got it wrong, you should have sent down this plate for me to review it.

SPEAKER_08 1:02:13

And another lesson learned from the National Football League. We all know if you're a Regio Wall, you know, viewer of the NFL, they they have the that red flag and they have the right to toss it out there if they want to uh you know question a call by the referee, and it works. And it works. So shifting gears, Joe, uh let's talk about the upcoming World Cup just briefly. Let's start with a U.S. men's national team. Um there are those who might say that this is the golden age. That that term has been tossed around more times than than I can imagine. But a lot of people say this is the golden age of the U.S. men's national team, specifically the number of quality players, the number of high-level players uh that are engaged in the game, the number of high-quality players that are that are playing all across the country, uh across the world, and not just playing, but starting and impacting. Um, in your view, is this the golden age of U.S. soccer?

SPEAKER_05 1:03:08

Well, I think every every World Cup, we're going to see more and more quality U.S. players either playing locally in MLS or internationally across Europe or elsewhere. This is certainly the best and the biggest, largest pool of quality players. I mean, he's going to have difficult decision making cuts. That was certainly not always the case. I mean, back in 1990, Ab Gansler added three players from the under-17 team that he did well with, I think, coming in fourth place at the under-17 or under-21 tournament, which he had just coaching in uh Saudi Arabia. So, but so yeah, I don't know, I don't know if it's the golden, you'll be the golden generation if we number one get out of the group and win a and win and win a knockout game. Uh, then you could say we're it's among the golden generation. He's got a lot of uh difficult choices to make and the upcoming uh friendly games against uh Portugal, one of the teams we'll be playing, Belgium, I think, the other, uh, is going to show a lot as to which teams are gonna be uh picked uh to represent us um in the World Cup.

SPEAKER_08 1:04:25

And relative to the pool of players that you kind of intimated here, what's your take on the on the balance between MLS-based players and those in Europe, let's say? And does that current mix help or hinder the team's readiness for the upcoming tournament?

SPEAKER_05 1:04:40

You know, MLS back when it was started was started with the seed money of the 1994 World Cup. And it took a year to get going. So when it started in '96, one of the purposes, and and I worked in the league from 15 years from 97 on, was to enhance the quality of play for our national team. But yet uh we'll we'll we'll maybe only see a handful of players on our national team uh playing in this World Cup. Yet we'll see a quite a few players representing other countries playing in MLS, uh, even against us, and including maybe in our first game against Paraguay. Um so look, you you watch Champions League, I mean, and you watch some of the competition in Europe. The gate the games are just fabulous. And the fact that we have American players scoring goals, defending um big time players um playing in that atmosphere. Um I I'm not I'm not going to um excuse me, say anything neck negative or positive about where they should be playing, but the fact that they're playing at the highest level of competition. Be it in MLS or in international soccer, certainly is going to put some more pressure on a coach to get out of that group and win a knockout stage, if not two.

SPEAKER_08 1:06:10

Yeah, there's a lot of um a lot of suspense here regarding uh the soon-to-be announced uh roster for the upcoming tournament. Um, arguably, in terms of quantity, we might we you could safely say this is the largest group of players that we've had to choose from you know to put together uh to put together a uh team for the tournament. So that's that's going to be very, very interesting to see um you know which players are are selected and where they're based, whether they be MLS based or in Europe. Um Mauricio Puchettino, how do you evaluate his early impact as a head coach? Has he got it right? Has he has he faltered? What are your thoughts on um you know him uh managing this team so far?

SPEAKER_05 1:06:54

Well, certainly at the beginning of his tenure, inheriting a team that you know did not know him and he didn't know the players, and the players, you know, we we fell into a spell. Um you know that we we we we began to rely on technique and tactics and forgot or did not rely on the you know the American, what was the American value of fighting power, not necessarily fitness, all the players are fit. But one of the pillars of the game that we were first introduced by Depp McCramer when he came here in 70 with the coaching schools was fighting power. And and for a for a time, uh our teams did not show that fighting power, that so-called American spirit. Um, you know, but I think the culture has changed a little bit. I think he's done a good job re-establishing that. I think now that the competition for jobs is going to be so high that the World Cup is upon us, that I think we'll be seeing, you know, us play with skill, with technique, with tactics, and with fighting power. So I think that's you know all good. But the at the end of the day, the barometer of success is how how did you do in the World Cup? So we can't make a value judgment on his tenure uh until after this World Cup, and and we see whether he got out of the group and won at least one, but hopefully two knockout games.

SPEAKER_08 1:08:30

The pressure on any uh national team coach is immense. That's that's a no-brainer. The pressure of a national team coach of the United States of America, when you're hosting the tournament, is even higher. Because, as you know, as well as everybody listening to the show here, that this game can be catapulted forward, uh, predicated on the success of this team. And I've got to think at some point in the back of Mauricio Pochettino's mind, in the back of the player's mind, they've got to know that that not they're not just out there trying to win a tournament. They're carrying the weight of U.S. soccer on their shoulders, knowing full well, boy, if we stink the joint out, if we don't get out of the out of the group stage, we might set the game back a touch. But boy, oh boy, oh boy, if we go forward, we get out of the group stage. We win, we win a knockout game. Heck, we win the next game. We get to the quarters, we get to the semis, the game gets thrown to a whole other level as we saw uh in 1994, um, you know, with the game being you know uh becoming a very, very popular game. What's your thoughts on that one? Do you think the players and and and Pochettino kind of carry that in the back of their minds?

SPEAKER_05 1:09:46

Like I said earlier in our discussion, you know, when you're there and you're you're doing it, you don't think about the historical perspective. Uh so I I you know I I don't know that part of his pregame speech going into any game is okay, we're doing this because we're going to um uh grow or develop the game further in America, that it's become you know going to become, it's already part of our pop culture. It's already uh up there with you know with with with our sports. I'm not saying it's gonna replace, you know, football, basketball, baseball, uh, you know, whatever. Uh, but it's already there. So for me, I don't I think you know, you players walking on the field are going to represent themselves as players to the best they possibly can as a team to the best it they possibly can, and and um be that what it may. And you know, and if they don't qualify, like you say, yeah, it will come down upon them as this is a major failure. And if they do get out of the group and win one or more uh group stage games, surely the press and the media and otherwise will say, yeah, that what a great job they've been doing. And they'll be making uh videotapes about the games and and uh you know, and and they'll all be American heroes, to be sure, and rightfully so. Indeed.

SPEAKER_08 1:11:10

So, Dr. Joe, here's my last question for you. I want to give you a bit to think about it. What legacy do you hope to leave in the world of American soccer? And what are your hopes for its next generation?

SPEAKER_05 1:11:23

Wow. You know, I uh thank you for I don't know. There was a there was a time, you know, I started a soccer camp in 1977 that was only for goalkeepers. And everybody said I was crazy. You know, what are you gonna do for it was a sleepaway camp for a whole week? What are you gonna do um with goalkeepers in a whole week's time? There's not that much to know. All they do is stand in front of the goal and you know, maybe stop shots. So over a period of time we we helped produce some of America's best goalkeepers. At one time we had five starting goalkeepers in MLS, for example. Um, and then you know, and then of course others became goalkeeper coaches and realized, you know, over time how the goalkeeper role is changing. But the goalkeeper position for American soccer, be it Dave Vinoli, Casey Keller, Brad Friedel, Tim Howard, uh, I mean, uh fantastic goalkeepers. So the question now is goalkeeping is changing. No longer are they just uh shot stoppers, but over the last 10 or so years, they become part of the team. They're field players. Uh there's a goalkeeper coach, Franz Hook, who worked for me at camp. He doesn't even call them goalkeepers anymore, goal players. So, so this is where um we're having a little bit of difficulty uh because because uh either their skill, you know, with their field playing skills uh or their reading of the game, or something is not yet quite up to par for them to play the total role of a goal player in our you know American team game. And I think one of the things, and I think I've seen this in the last couple games, I think we're playing back to the goalkeeper a lot less, playing out of the back a lot less because we've recognized that we're not yet fully prepared to play as some of the goal players the rest of the world are playing. And I think that's a good thing because we cannot afford to give up. I mean, every game, this is what I say to the goalkeepers, every game starts 0-0. You have a shuto. All you gotta do is keep it, and if you do, we minimally have a tie. Okay, if we get one goal, you know, then we're we're winning the game. So I think uh we've realized that we've got to be careful with this playing out of the back. Um and if we do so, I think our goalkeepers will stand tall and reestablish our reputation um of having strong goalkeepers, which we're going to need. We're going to need at this World Cup. So my legacy is, you know, for the role I've played over since now this this coming summer will be the 50th year of the camp. It's no longer just about goalkeeping, it's about all players going to goal, field players, striking the ball, scoring goals as well as saving goals. So I think you know, my legacy is with the almost hundred thousand, keep uh hundred thousand players that have come through camp, and for those that I've uh helped learn how to coach a little bit more, and uh for you know whatever I've done in the game. I don't think about it that much, actually.

SPEAKER_08 1:15:06

Well, Joe, uh, I can say um, you know, that uh your legacy, whether you put on a referee's hat or a coach's hat, uh, a goalkeeper coach's hat, the analyst hat, uh, your leggy will legacy will be absolutely absolutely profound. You've been a major impact on our game here in the United States of America. Um appreciate it. Joe, if people wanted to, you know, find out where to get this uh wonderful book from the sand launch of the World Cup inside seven decades of American soccer, how might they go about getting this wonderful book?

SPEAKER_05 1:15:34

Well, thank you. Uh the easiest is to just go on amazon.com. It will come up and you can purchase a paperback, which is in black and white, or a hardcover, which has got uh full color pictures, uh, or even you can get it for on your mobile device, you know, your iPad or whatever, and read it that way. So that's the easiest way. Um, and I I don't know if you share uh or have information on your listeners, but if if you want to provide my email address uh later on, it's Joe Macnick at number one soccer camps.com. If anyone emails me and wants to buy a signed copy of the book, I would be happy to do that. Uh I'll get back to you, I'll provide you, I'll provide that person with a Venmo um number and even maybe a little discount, and I'd be happy to sign them uh uh send them a copy of either the paperback or the hardcover. So with an autograph and a message as to being a listener or a fan of GP soccer podcasts.

SPEAKER_08 1:16:50

Well, there's an offer, ladies and gentlemen, you cannot refuse. You cannot refuse. And Joe, you might have opened up the floodgates, my friend. You might have opened up the floodgates. So I hope that uh that pen will be working uh furiously uh when you get these requests. But that's very kind of you, very, very kind of you. And I'll certainly uh put that on the on the show notes when this uh the show goes live. Our guest, sure, our guest today has been the wonderful Dr. Joe Mocknick, and as I noted at the uh outset of our conversation, he is without question one of the most prominent figures of American soccer. This is Giovanni Pacini, this is the GP Soccer Podcast we're gonna break for a commercial or two. You know how that all works. We'll re-engage on the other side, so don't you dare go anywhere. Soccer is known around the world as both a sport and an art, with players of all ages and abilities enjoying the game. Now, the art of the game is only realized after hours of mastering ball skills, learning to communicate with your teammates, and receiving support and instruction from the right coaches. With over 100 years of coaching experience, Director John Barrata and the coaching staff at the Beautiful Games Soccer Academy are pleased to offer their expertise to players and their parents. Coach Barada is one of the most decorated and accomplished soccer coaches in the Northeast with a proven track record of developmentally talented players and coaches. The Beautiful Games Soccer Academy believes that success on the soccer field reads success elsewhere in a young adult's life. Players who attend the learn the importance of forming good habits, attempting new challenges without the fear of failure, and seeking out support and advice from others. The program fosters the creativity within each player and encourages them to experiment, improvise, and problem solve on the fly. At the Beautiful Game Soccer Academy, every day starts with a smile on our face and a ball at our feet. To learn more about the Beautiful Game Soccer Academy, visit www.beautifulgamesa.com. This is JP Della Camera from Fox Sports, and you're listening to the GP Soccer Podcast with host Giovanni Paccini. And welcome to the GP Soccer Podcast, Coach's Corner, where you'll find great tips and advice on how to teach the great game of soccer.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:06

This is David Hart, and I'm the head girl soccer coach at Fryberg Academy in Fryberg, Maine. It's a pleasure to be on the GP Soccer Podcast, Coach's Corner. And today I'd like to talk to you about guest coaching. I've been thinking about this for a little bit and wanted to share some thoughts about guest coaching. One of the things is uh over the years I've worked alongside some great coaches. I've seen coaches do incredible sessions. I've uh been taught by some very uh cool coaches and some coaches that had some really interesting ideas. And so for many years now, I've uh invited various people to come and um spend a day, maybe a session, maybe two sessions, with our girls' high school program. And I've find that to be an extraordinary experience for not only myself, but for the players. Uh one of the things as a as a coach, as I guess we all know, is we can be a little bit uh egotistical or a little bit uh protective of our of our programs, and we might come up with excuses such as, well, um, it's my team, I don't need any help, or um there's not enough time. I I got so many other things to concentrate on, I just can't have this other person coming in and kind of getting us off track, or maybe oh, that coach does something different than I do, and I don't want to get the kids confused in terms of our tactics or our techniques. Um I I say I say the opposite. I say uh there's a great opportunity, at least at the high school level. I don't know if uh Jürgen Klopp is inviting coaches in Liverpool to do things with him, but maybe he is. Um but I think it's a great opportunity for um uh your athletes to hear a different voice. And what I often do is I'll ask someone to come in, um, particularly with uh a girls' program, having a female coach come in is a a really great experience that the girls can see, hey, you know, if I want to coach, uh there are people out there that do this for a living. So that kind of gives them a uh a firsthand uh knowledge and introduction to um uh women who are coaching in the game. What I normally do is I will talk with the coach and talk about what we're trying to accomplish, and uh they will have some insight and some of their own ideas in terms of a topic. Uh it's it's sort of a no-brainer, I guess the easiest thing to think about in terms of a guest coach is uh having a goalkeeper coach come in. Most of us don't have the um staff where we have a goalkeeper coach on part-time or even full-time. So that that's sort of a no-brainer to have someone come in and and give their expertise and their time to your players, uh, which it goes a long, long way. So, but I normally will talk to the coach and we'll come up with an idea and then I kind of let them run with it. And they come, the uh the girls to a player have said it was a great experience. Sometimes they'll come in with a different voice. You might be actually teaching the same topic two weeks ago or two weeks later, and the girls didn't re it didn't resonate with the girls, but all of a sudden now you have this other person come in, might even teach the same topic, and all of a sudden now, oh, that's a great idea, oh, I understand it better, I understand what we're doing now, and away you go. So not only do they get um a different perspective, they hear someone different who has some different ideas, and and really selfishly for me and for our coaching staff is the idea that I will always learn something. No matter if it's the same coach that comes back year after year, there is always at least one thing, and and normally many things, that I get to see, I get to think about, I get to observe, and um maybe decide to put into my repertoire as a coach, or at least kind of put it in my my notebook as something to consider uh going forward. So I highly encourage you to consider uh asking a guest coach to come and work with your players. And I think both you and your players uh could benefit greatly from that experience. So this is Dave Hart, and that's today's coaching tip here on the GP Soccer Podcast Coach's Corner.

SPEAKER_08 1:23:50

This is soccer news and analysis with Giovanni Pacini. From the Associated Press. New Revolution goalkeeper Matt Turner was called into the U.S. men's national team camp ahead of friendlies against Belgium and Portugal. In addition to Turner, Coach Mauricio Pochettino will also have Chris Brady, Roman Celentano, and Matt Fries, who has started each of the last 12 games, included last year's Gold Cup available between the Woodwork. Midfielder Gio Reyna was called up, while midfielder Tyler Adams, a quadricep injury, defender Sergio Dest, hamstring injury, and forward Haji Wright, a groin injury, will miss the matches in Atlanta. Morocco was awarded the African Cup of Nations titles by appeals judges who overturned the Sen overturned Senegal's victory in a chaotic final in January. The Confederation of African Football said its appeals board ruled that Senegal is, quote, declared to have forfeited the final, and its 1-0 win in extra time becomes a 3-0 default win for host Morocco. In the January 18th final in Rabat, Senegal players left the field in protest during stoppage time for 15 minutes, and fans tried to storm the field when Morocco was awarded a penalty that was set to decide the match. When play resumed, Morocco forward Vahim Diaz's spot kick was saved by goalkeeper Edward Mendy, and Senegal scored the only goal in extra time. Tension in the stadium was already raised by Senegal being denied a goal minutes before the penalty was given to Morocco. The case could go to a further appeal at the Court of Arbitration of Sport. Senegal isn't giving up its African nation title without a legal fight, and with the country's soccer federation saying it will appeal the, quote, unfair, unprecedented, and unacceptable decision to strip the team of its victory in a chaotic final against host Morocco. The country's government went further as it said it will, quote, pursue all appropriate legal avenues to overturn the decision and call for an international investigation into, quote, into suspended, suspected corruption within the African soccer's governing body. The Confederation of African Football Appeals Board ruled that Senegal forfeited the final in January by walking off the field and turned its 1-0 win in extra time into a 3-0 default win for Morocco. Lionel Messi scored his 900th goal in the opening minutes of Inter Miami's 1-1 draw with visiting Nashville in the KOK-CAF Champions Cup round of 16. Cristiano Ronaldo is the only other men's player with more than 900 goals by official count, and he needed about 100 more matches to get there. Messi's Herons were eliminated on away goals, however, after a 0-0 result in Nashville started the series last week. YouTube made a World Cup deal with FIFA that lets rights holding broadcasting stream game action live on the video platform that offers global access to young viewers. FIFA announced a quote game-friendly partnership that encourages World Cup rights holders to broadcast the first 10 minutes of games during the June 11th to July 19th tournament. In effect, an appetizer encouraging young fans then to watch on traditional channels such as network television. In addition, broadcasters will be able to stream a select number of matches in full on their YouTube channel, engaging global audiences and promoting where to watch more of the competition, FIFA said. And finally, the first major domestic trophy of the season is Manchester Cities after a dominant 2-0 win against Arsenal in the English League Cup final at Wembley Stadium. Manchester born Nico O'Reilly scored both goals in the second half. Cities' win ended Arsenal's bid for an unprecedented quadruple of major trophies by an English team, including the Premier League, Champions League, and the FA Cup. That's soccer news and analysis. Next up, Ralph Oregno with the European Report.

SPEAKER_07 1:28:11

This is the GP Soccer Podcast. It was premier leading in the European Soccer Report with your host, Alfa Ritno.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:30

There's a lot going on on the European football scene right now. This week we have World Cup qualifier playoffs. And let's first reflect though on last week's UEFA club competitions. Then we can take a quick look, reviewing ongoing league action, and then try to spotlight some of the season's most surprising teams to date. Last week I discussed the disappointing performances of Premier League sides, often touted as Europe's top football league in continental competition, and that has especially been the case in the Champions League. The second legs were played and as expected, Arsenal advanced with a comfortable 2-0 victory over Bael Leverkusen. Liverpool also progressed. It was hard to predict them as they've been so up and down, but on the night against Galatasarai they came out and they played with conviction and they delivered one of the best performances of the season, storming to an emphatic 4-0 victory. However, elsewhere it was very much a week to forget for English football fans when it comes to the Champions League. Chelsea, Manchester City, Newcastle United, and Tottenham Hotspur all crashed out, with a combined aggregate of just eight goals scored and a staggering 22 conceded. Some defeats were especially humbling. Newcastle suffered a heavy 7-2 loss in Barcelona, while Chelsea was eliminated by the holders of Paris Saint-Germain on an aggregate score of 8-3. Now that that's gone and it's in the past, the quarterfinal draw promises some exciting matchups. Arsenal faces Sporting Lisbon. On paper, Sporting is the weakest team left in the competition, and this seems to give the gunners a clear route to progress. Then there's a Spanish derby between Barcelona and Atletico Madrid. Holders PSG will play Liverpool in a rematch of last year's dramatic knockout uh competition when the Parisians advanced on penalty kicks. Given PSG's current form, they look likely to advance, and Liverpool will have to draw upon all their storied European pedigree to advance. Similar can be said of Real Madrid, who meet Bayern Munich in what is very much the tie of the round, with Bayern looking particularly formidable. In the second tier Europa League, two English clubs have advanced, Aston Villa and Nottingham Forest, alongside Spain's Celtavigo and Real Batis, Portugal's Sporting Braga and FC Porto, Freiburg from Germany, and Italy's Bologna. Aston Villa and FC Porto appear favourites on paper, though in the next round Bologna and Nottingham Forest will pose threats to each in their respective ties. Villa and Porto find themselves in the tougher half of the draw, while Batisse, if they can overcome Braga and then the winner of Freiburg vs. Celtavigo, could be well positioned to meet them in the final. In the UEFA Conference League, we had victories for AEK Athens, Crystal Palace, Mainz, Firentina, Rayo Velicano, Shetka Denetch, AZ Altmar and FC Strasbourg. The standout quarterfinal tie is going to be Ferrantina vs. Crystal Palace, with the winner likely to meet Shakar Dinetsk. The other half of the draw isn't quite as strong as this one. They feature a bracket where there are fewer historically dominant teams, and this makes predicting the outcomes very, very difficult. In the meantime, let's take a quick glance at Europe's top leagues following last weekend's results. And it does show that several unexpected clubs are making strong bids to qualify for the UEFA competitions in 2026-27. In Italy, Ces Fapragas is making headlines as a manager. Newly promoted Como have exceeded expectations under his guidance, and they currently sit fourth in Serie A. They are unexpectedly ahead of one of the traditional giants of Italian football, Juventus. France boasts its most open title race in many, many years. Paris Saint-Germain does lead the way, but only a narrow margin over surprise challenges Lyon, Marseille, and Strasbourg. And the question is gonna be, will the pressure of a close domestic contest affect PSG's competitive levels in the Champions League? Last year they dominated the league by 19 points, meaning that they were relatively fresh for the Champions League challenge. This year the season is far more competitive. Will there be an effect? Over in England, Brentford and Everton are surprisingly challenging, not just for European qualification, but possibly even for Champions League spots. Recent poor runs by more fancied sides like Chelsea and Liverpool, each who were defeated this past weekend, have allowed Brentford and Everton to close in on the coveted fifth place. Intriguingly, these two clubs will meet each other when the Premier League resumes after the international break. At the other end of the Premier League, meanwhile, Tottenham Hotspur, long part of the Premier League's big six, suffered a 3-0 home reverse to Nottingham Forest, and now sit only a point above the relegation zone. On current form, relegation is a real possibility unless fortunes change for the Spurs very, very quickly. Outside of the traditional European top five leagues, there are some intriguing things happening. Firstly, let's look at Switzerland where FC Thun is proving to be the sensation of the season, and they are closing in rapidly on the first ever Swiss domestic title. This past weekend they had a dramatic comeback win over local rivals Youngboys, and Thun now holds a 14-point lead, being just five wins away from claiming the title. Having only been promoted last year, Thun have never won a major trophy in their 127-year history, so this is a truly remarkable rise by a smaller club traditionally. Similar can be said in Scotland, where Hart and Midlodian are clinging to top spot, aiming to be the first club in 40 years to break the own firm's grip on the Premiership title. Celtics slipped further behind Hart's after a 2-0 defeat at Dundee United. They are now five points off pace. While Glasgow neighbours Rangers did win, leaving them three points behind the Edinburgh club. So there are seven rounds remaining, and the question in Scotland is gonna be can Harts hold their nerves? Now we shift from club football to the aforementioned World Cup qualifiers which kick off this week. To remind you all there are four distinct pathways to the final, so we'll take a look at each. Path A features Wales hosting Bosnia and Herzegovina, while Northern Ireland travels over to Italy. Italy on paper will be the favourites. Remarkably they have missed the last two tournaments despite being four-time World Cup winners, most recently in 2006. They are going to be under tremendous pressure, can they cope with the pressure of more failure? Will it be too much for the Italians to handle? Pathbi meantime pits Sweden against Ukraine and Poland against Albania. And this route appears to be wide open. The question is ultimately going to be can Robert Lewandowski inspire Poland to what could be the iconic strikers final World Cup tournament? We shall have to wait and see on that one. My gut feeling here is Turkey. They are buoyed by exciting young talents like Argagula of Real Madrid and Kenan Yildas of Juventus in Italy. They could be a team if they qualify that does well in the World Cup in North America very, very soon. And finally we have Path D, and this features the Czech Republic versus Ireland and Denmark versus North Macedonia. Path D may well be the toughest pathway, but for me Denmark is the favourite, though I think the Czechs could well provide them with a stern test. So, moving on to next week, I'm gonna be taking a closer look at these World Cup playoffs as they move to the finals in the four pathways. Less than 100 days to go to the World Cup tournament. We're all looking forward to it. The question is which of these European teams will join the teams that have already qualified in North America this summer.

SPEAKER_08 1:38:12

Did you know there's a place where unforgettable sports stories come to life through music? Well, there is. Music Meets Sports was created by music producer Ronald Tigolliver, an experienced music producer and a lifelong sports fanatic. He created Music Meets Sports to fuse the raw energy of athletics with the emotional depth of music. They create custom soundtracks that not only celebrate sports fandom, but also brings the personal stories of legendary athletes to life. Through deep research and creative storytelling, Music Meets Sports transforms the careers, challenges, and triumphs of iconic sports figures into powerful music experiences. Every beat, lyric, and melody is designed to reflect the heart, hustle, and humanity behind the jersey. Now, whether you're a diehard fan or a casual sports lover, or simply someone moved by great stories, Music Meets Sports hopes that our music connects with you and brings you even closer to the games and the heroes you love. Be sure to check out MusicMeets Sports at musicmeetsports.org. Music Meets Sports, where passion meets performance, and music brings the games to life. Hey there, Giovanni Piccini here, host of the GP Soccer Podcast, and I want to reach out to all of my great listeners who own pets and even those who don't. Listen, your local animal rescue organization is on a mission to provide loving homes for pets in need and they need your help. Whether through adoption, fostering, or financial contributions, every bit of support counts. Join me in making a positive impact. Visit your local shelter today and help give these wonderful animals the second chance they so deserve. Together, we can create a community where every animal is cared for and loved. Um, where I take a look at all things soccer that need to be uh blown up, discussed, reviewed, rethought, uh reinstituted, reconstituted. I don't care how you slice it, but uh these are things that need to be um need to be addressed. Uh last week, if you listen to last week's show, I played some audio in the American Soccer Revolution block of the show, uh, and it was audio from the Arizona State uh referees uh association, and they were talking about uh violence against referees, in particular youth referees. Well, this week um pretty much the same theme. And uh this uh particular article, as I noticed you at the opening of the show, was uh written by Jonathan Mahler, who's a sports columnist for the Bloomberg View, and it is entitled The Sickness at the Center of U.S. Sports. So this goes beyond soccer and encompasses all sports. So uh sit back and uh check this one out. A 17-year-old soccer player in Utah was recently charged with homicide for fatally punching a referee who had just given him a yellow card. Maybe you remember the story, or maybe you've already conflated it with the countless others like it, tales of kids, coaches, and especially parents acting like utter idiots at youth sporting events, occasionally with tragic consequences. It has gotten to the point where 21 states have laws addressing assaults on officials. American youth sports culture is sick, but the conventional diagnosis of the illness has it backward. The problem isn't that we take youth sports too seriously, it's that we don't take them seriously enough. As a result, we're producing bad citizens and bad athletes. The United States is obsessed with youth sports, but Americans don't quite know how, don't know what to do with that obsession. It's the trickle-down effect of the myth of amateurism. If collegiate sport is supposed to embody some platonic ideal of competition for its own sake, youth sports are supposed to represent something more innocent still, a world where nobody's keeping score. There's virtue in this. At the same time, it's only natural for kids, and yes, they're parents, to want to get something something else out of sports, and for the country to get something, uh some world-class professional athletes in the bargain. The refusal to acknowledge this has produced a haphazard approach to competitive youth athletics and its out-of-control culture. Kids haven't been taught to respect the games they're playing. Parents haven't been told to shut up and let the coaches do their job. There are good arguments against specialization in youth sports, especially if cultivating talent is a secondary concern, yet there is also something to be said for doing it one thing supremely well, as Roger Bannister once put it. The growing international diversity of professional basketball and baseball is worthy of celebration. But it also speaks to the U.S. failure to better train its young athletes. There is no culture of serious teaching in youth basketball. In fact, there is the opposite in the amateur athletic union, which is all about making reputations rather than players. America's inability to get any traction in the world of international soccer is instructive too. It's shocking that a country with the population and resources of the United States has produced just a handful of players capable of competing at the highest levels of the game. Like basketball, soccer requires both sound fundamental skills and creativity. For all of the millions of American kids playing organized soccer every year, the U.S. is still failing on both fronts. There's no schoolyard soccer culture to speak of, and two, and too few soccer clubs that teach the game the right way. The U.S. men's national team is trying to expand its own academy program, though progress has been slow. Organized youth sports don't have to mean crazy kids, coaches, and parents, any more than the phrase youth sports academy has to conjure images of the Nick Bolicherri style of sweatshops. John MacEnroe, of all people, has built a kinder, gentler alternative to Bolicheri's Academy in New York City. Other countries successfully train serious soccer players without having the whole enterprise degenerate into bullying, assault, or homicide. Just look at the youth academies run by FC Barcelona and AC Milan. These programs are not designed for everyone. Only the top players are invited. The clubs don't have to compete with other sports for the attention of their country's most promising athletes. Yet there's a lot of Americans that can learn from this pre-professional approach to kids in sports. Among other things, it recognizes that fostering emotional maturity is a critical part of the development of young athletes. Kids in IAX Youth Academy in the Netherlands, for example, don't even start playing other clubs until they've spent years at the academy. But when they're ready to win and also lose, which is more than we can say about many of the athletes in America's youth soccer leagues. Ladies and gentlemen, that's a rather compelling article and worth me sharing. And this is something that's not going to change overnight. This is going to be kind of an ongoing process. But we, all of us, who are involved in the sporting landscape here in the United States, and this transcends soccer, this is all of sports, that we take a step back and we take a deep breath and we ask ourselves, what is this really for? What is this really all about, this idea of youth sports? Well, as I have noted on numerous occasions on this program and this block, the American Soccer Revolution, call me naive, and I say this every week, and I don't mind me beating this dead horse. I have always viewed that youth sports should be this oasis of purity, this oasis of joy, where members of the community descend upon the soccer fields, the baseball fields, the rinks, the basketball courts, uh the spaces where kids are playing, and just enjoy that environment. And while you're up in the stands, you cheer for the kids when they do well, and if they don't do well, they'll say, hey, you'll get it next time. You'll get it next time. And folks may be up in the stands, you may not even be even watching the game, you may be talking about any number of things. Any number of things. But you're there in the spirit of joy, in the spirit of community. And that's going to take uh one coach at a time, one parent at a time, one referee at a time, one player at a time, one group at a time, all the way up to our full international level. But it's something that has to take place. It's something that has to be addressed. So there you have it. That's our show for today. If you like what you hear, and goodness, I hope you did, please tell everyone. And remember, those likes matter, those little buttons, likes, those subscribe buttons, listen, they really matter. So uh please make sure you hit those likes, those likes buttons. Uh you can follow the GPSoccer podcast all over social media, and new episodes are available every Wednesday morning, like I always say. What a way to start your Wednesday morning. Don't forget to check out my website at GPSoccerpodcast.com. And if you're interested in advertising on this wonderful show, then email me for goodness sake at GP4Soccer, and that's the number four at Yahoo!com. This is your host, Giovanni Picini, and like I always say, I'm ranting and raving, but it's all for the good. And I will catch you later.