Welcome to the GP Soccer Podcast! (S14 E11)

                        Welcome to the GP Soccer Podcast!  (S14 E11)

Proud member of the Sports History Network and endorsed by the National                                                  Soccer Coaches Association of Canada.     

Host Giovanni Pacini welcomes his worldwide audience to yet another exciting show. Don't forget this season will feature World Cup "bonus content" throughout the season and beyond!

This week's "Conversation with the Coach" is with Hal Phillips, author of "Sibling Rivalry: How Mexico and the US Built the Most Contentious Feud in World Soccer".  "Coaches Corner" features Erik Eisenhut where he talks about the role of the goalkeeper when dealing with free kicks. "News and Analysis" will feature Giovanni Pacini with news from the AP and Ralph Ferrigno checks in with the European Soccer Report where he talks about Euro teams competing in the World Cup. The "American Soccer Revolution" features a quote from Gianni Infantino regarding pay to play. Secondly, there is content from the Concrete Football Club and the movement towards street soccer.

The GP Soccer Podcast features new shows every Wednesday and can be found anywhere you listen to your podcasts. Listeners are encouraged to "Like" and "Subscribe" the GP Soccer Podcast and share the show amongst those within their social media network! Those interested in advertising on the show can contact host Giovanni Pacini at gp4soccer@yahoo.com. And be sure to check out the show website at www.gpsoccerpodcast.com. 

                    GP Soccer Podcast enjoys continued support from-
United Goalkeeping Alliance - Music Meets Sports - National Soccer Coaches Association of Canada - The Sports History Network - Feedspot.com - GP Voice Over Services - Zone 14 Coaching

GP Soccer Podcast welcomes a new sponsor- Zone 14 Coaching! Check it out at Zone14coaching.com. Use promo code GP20 for 20% off!

To purchase a signed copy of Dr. Joe Machnik's book- "From the Sandlots to the World Cup: 7 Decades of American Soccer", e-mail "Dr. Joe" at joemachnik@no1soccercamps.com. Be sure to mention the GP Soccer Podcast!

Enjoy the show!

Transcript

SPEAKER_09 1:21

Well, hey there, everyone. Giovanni Piccini here, your host of the GP Soccer Podcast. Welcome to all of you, my uh wonderful global interplanetary audience. Um if if you you feel hear a little bit of a sniffle in my voice, I'm I'm battling a little bit of a cold. A little bit of a cold. Nothing major, nothing that would stop me from coming down here and putting putting forth uh today's episode of the GP Soccer Podcast. Uh I'm generally a healthy guy, but every once in a while, I guess, you know, uh like like everybody, you get caught up with a little bit of a uh case of the sniffles, and that's what I'm dealing with. In any event, do you hear it? Tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick. Yes, that is the uh countdown to the World Cup as I record this episode of the GP Soccer Podcast. We are 30 days, 30 days until the opening of the 2026 World Cup. As you all know, hosted here in the United States, Mexico, and in Canada. Um and as you all know, listening to the show, as most of you, a lot of you do, um this this uh uh season of the GP Soccer Podcast has had quite a World Cup uh flavor to it, a World Cup twist. And uh I'm really excited, as I noted uh a couple of weeks ago, I think, that here on the GP Soccer Podcast we're gonna have a World Cup panel, of which I convened. Um that episode will be up on uh June the 10th. It will include uh Rob Ellis, um the author of the Soccer Coaches Toolkit, Renato Capabianco, former team uh manager, uh team administrator for the 1994 World Cup team, Ralph Rigno. You know Ralph real well. He does the European Soccer Report here, the GP Soccer Podcast. And last but not least, the great John D. Benedictus, who's the the uh uh administrator for the National Soccer Coaches Association of Canada, and it'll be yours truly, Giovanni Pacini, uh heading up that panel. So the five of us will convene and uh we'll talk about all things World Cup. So you have a lot to look forward to, and that'll be up uh uh on air on June the 10th. GP Soccer Podcast Mailbag, Mailbag, Mailbag. You know, last week's show garnered some some really nice responses, and I and as you all know, uh I pull emails when I think they're worthy of sharing with you. And I picked three because these folks uh that that emailed me, that texted me uh regarding Lack Sweet Show. By that, by the way, it was with Jim Hart, um, where he and I got together and talked about unstructured free play and kids going out uh to play street soccer and the importance of coaching with a street soccer mentality, that type of thing. And it garnered, like I said, um a lot of really nice feedback. And I thought I would share these three with you because these folks went so far as to offer up some solutions. And I like that. I'll digress for but a moment. It's one thing to moan and groan about something, anything. Anything. It's another thing to moan and groan about something and then offer up solutions. Offer up solutions, and that's that's the hard part. That's the hard part for a lot of times for folks. So these these particular three three three people will email me and offer up some solutions. Let me share with you these three emails for the GP Soccer Podcast mailbag. Hi, Giovanni. I just finished last week's GP Soccer Podcast episode on the importance of unstructured free play, and it really hits home. The way you framed, quote, kids going out to play as a missing ingredient, not an option optional extra, was refreshing and honestly hopeful. It's a reminder that we don't need to overcomplicate the development. We need to protect space for creativity, problem solving, and joy. One idea your episode sparked for me is coaches can design training that feels more like street soccer without turning it into another scripted drill. I like the way you put that. A few simple street mentality tweaks I'm I'm gonna try this week are uh small-sided winner stays on games, let the players set the rules, minimal coaching during play, and make it work constraints. Thanks for putting on putting the message out there. It felt like uh a positive pushback against the idea that more structure automatically means automatically equals better development. Keep up the great work and with the show. Looking forward to the next next one. Well, thank you so much for that one. Uh, I really like those um those suggestions uh that you're gonna try with your team. Uh next one up here. Hi, Giovanni! I wanted to send a quick note after listening to last week's GP Soccer Podcast on unstructured free play and street soccer. The episode was a great reminder that the game teach that the the game teaches the game, especially when kids have freedom to experiment, argue the call, solve the problem, and try again. What I appreciated most was the optimistic tone. We can bring this back, even if the environment today looks different. In that spirit, I'm thinking about pitching a free play challenge to our club families and coaches, and your episode gave me the language to make it feel purposeful rather than random. Well, that makes me feel good. Thank you. Uh he goes on to say, here are some few here are a few coach-friendly ways to capture that street soccer uh effect inside organized training. Start with 10 minutes of true pickup, mixed age or mixed ability games. Play in different spaces. Coaching, a coaching language shift. In other words, what he's saying there, I think, uh that you know, instead of saying X, Y, Z, you may reframe it and and share that with the kids in another way. Uh pitch it a little bit differently, if you will. And then lastly, he talks about celebrate solutions, not just execution. That's terrific. Celebrate solutions, not just execution. Anyway, thank you for continuing to advocate uh to advocate for that uh part of soccer that makes uh so many of us fall in love with the game in the first place. If you ever do a follow-up episode, I'd love to hear guests share practical ways to introduce go play culture in their communities all the best. And the last one here, hi Giovanni. Really enjoyed last week's GPU Soccer Podcast episode on unstructured free play and street soccer. I've heard people talk about bringing back the street. Boy, I like that. But your conversation did a great job of making it practical. It's less about nostalgia and more about giving kids reps in autonomy, creativity, and resilience. It also left me feeling upbeat because even if we can't recreate every part of the old neighborhood setup, coaches can build environments um that invite the same behaviors. If it's helpful, here are a few street soccer principles I'm using as a coaching checklist along with some session ideas. Talks about ownership. In other words, players handling teams, restarts, disputes, repetition through competition. Talks about lots of short-sighted games with quick rematches, improvisation under pressure, playing through bumps, not reckless, just realistic, he puts here. Uh idea allows shoulder-to-shoulder contact with a clear safety rule. Uh it teaches players to stay balanced to protect the ball. Creativity is allowed. Basically talks about uh letting kids go out and trying things. And last but not least, he talks about coach as a facilitator. Uh less stopping, more guiding. Uh idea coach only in 60 seconds between games. Uh one compliment, one question. Thanks again for a strong episode and for keeping the message positive. I'm sharing it with a couple of coaches who could use the reminder that development always doesn't look tidy. Sometimes it looks like kids running in the park and figuring it out. Thanks so much. Keep up the good work. So that those are three terrific emails and and um I I appreciate the time you took to not only, you know, uh address the uh conversation last night I had with uh last week with Jim Hart, but offer some some real solutions, real solutions. And and all of them, every single one of them, are very, very, very viable. So uh many thanks for you folks for sending those into the GP Soccer Podcast. Terrific show, terrific show today. Uh with conversation with the coach, it's a conversation with the author. And uh today's author is Hal Phillips, and he's the author of the book, Sibling Rivalry: How Mexico and the U.S. built the most contentious, passionate, and profitable soccer rivalry in the world. I'm gonna tell you what, uh, I read the book. Um you know, if you're A, if you're a history buff, this is terrific. B, obviously, if you're a soccer fanatic, this is a terrific book. You put the two together. This is a really this is a really terrific read. It was a lot of fun to uh you know to get behind the scenes, so to speak, um, you know, that uh uh he talks about here with the United States and and uh Mexico having such a contentious and heated rivalry. Uh in Coach's Corner, we've got the great Eric Eisenhout. His topic today is free kicks in the role of the goalkeeper. Soccer news and analysis with yours truly, Giovanni Piccini News from the Associated Press. The European Soccer Report, Ralph Rigno, this will be his third installment of European teams competing in the World Cup. And in the American Soccer Revolution, the final block of the show. We do once again I'm gonna talk about pay-to-play, that obscene, and I do mean obscene dynamic, which has ruined youth soccer and youth sports in general. I'll share with you uh uh some some commentary from Johnny Infantino and a great organization called the Concrete Football Club. Uh that's a little bit of a teaser. That would be in the American Soccer Revolution. Checking boxes, checking boxes, checking boxes. This kind of ticked me off. This kind of ticked me off. Um our local, you know, Boston Globe here, our our newspaper of note, uh, does has got a pretty good sports section. I gotta admit, I get the Globe every day. I'm an old school guy. I still get the newspaper, I still like flipping the pages, uh, you know, getting the newspaper each and every day. And recently, our two uh professional soccer teams, uh the uh uh our legacy uh FC and our New England Revolution have been doing really well. Really, really, really well. Uh our our legacy of you know, finally on the winning track. Um, you know, they've they've been unbeaten in the last three games with one win and two draws. Our New England Revolution are on around quite a tear. They're right now 7-3-1 at 22 points, and I think sitting in second place in the Eastern Division. And it's terrific to see both our professional teams, particularly the legacy, uh, since they're a brand new franchise uh and the NWSL really do so well. Um and you might think that that might be worthy of a front page news in the Boston Globe or any newspaper for that matter, but no. Uh these two stories, and they are small stories, two columns apiece, um, were buried on page 11 and two small blurbs, as I noted, in the lower right-hand corner of the Boston Globe sports section. Now, the last time I checked, our Boston Celtics got their behind handed to him by the Philadelphia 76ers, um, blowing a 3-1 lead and losing the series four games to three. They're out. The last time I checked, the Boston Bruins were bumped out uh in the first round of the playoffs by the Buffalo Sabres. The last time I checked, the Boston Red Sox stink in last place in the AL East. And the New England Patriots aren't even in season. Not even in season. So don't tell me there's uh, you know, there's not a possibility uh that you can't put our two professional soccer teams on the front page, above the fold, so to speak, um, so that folks can see that uh we do have professional sports taking place uh above and beyond, well, in this case, given the time of year that it is, that it is with the Red Sox, we've got professional soccer, and our two teams are doing very, really well. In a broader statement, particularly those of you out there in the United States, if you pick up your local newspaper or you know, you know, you you get stuff you get online uh and you see that soccer is being buried or soccer doesn't get the appropriate uh attention that it should, you can say something. You can uh letters to the editor and you know, all kinds of feedback on social media, keep it positive, keep it positive, but you know, address the issue that soccer is here. Soccer is here, it has been here for quite some time. It's no longer just football, basketball, baseball, hockey. It's football, basketball, baseball, hockey, and soccer. And soccer. And when soccer is worthy of uh getting some attention above and beyond those four other sports, then it is uh it requires the powers that be to do so, to do so. So that really kind of that really kind of bugged the snot out of me a little bit uh to see our two professional soccer teams uh get buried like that. Checking boxes, checking boxes, checking boxes. Uh, for the last several weeks I've been doing a little bit of soccer trivia. Uh we'll figure we'll we'll wrap up the A block today with a little bit more soccer trivia as the World Cup gets closer and closer, as I noted the opening 30 days. Tick, tick, tick, tick, tick. So, why was the match between Argentina and France on July 15, 1930, terminated six minutes early? Well, the referee had made a mistake. Brazilian referee Almida Rigo whistled to the end of the match at the 39th minute in the second half when Argentina was leading 1-0. He resumed the match a half an hour later, but no goal was scored in the quote unquote extra time. Now, what was the first World Cup final in with extra time? Well, on June 10th, 1934, Italy and Czechoslovakia played to a 1-1 tie in the World Cup final in Rome. Italy scored in extra time to win the cup. Now, why did Austria did not appear in the 1938 World Cup, even though they qualified? Well, in Vienna, on October 5, 1937, Austria qualified for the 1930 World Cup by defeating Latvia 2-1. But in March 1938, Nazi Germany annexed Austria in the Anschluss, and the Austrian team was forced to withdraw. No team was offered off of the vacancy. Incidentally, the Nazi German team was eliminated in the first round by Switzerland. And last but not least here, why was Leonidas left off the Brazilian team for the 1938 semifinal against Italy? Well, the Brazilian coach wanted to save Leonidas Leonidas for the final. The decision not to feel Leonidas in the semifinal was obviously wrong because Brazil unexpectedly lost 2-1 Italy in the match. Ironically, in the third place match two days later, Leonidas scored two goals and helped Brazil achieve a 4-2 victory over Sweden. So there you go, folks. A little bit of uh little bit of soccer, World Cup soccer trivia. Uh you can uh share those with those amongst your friends. Um, as you get together for World Cup parties, you can be the uh the trivia expert. You don't have to tell them to get up from the from the GP Soccer Podcast. That's that's okay. Call it all, call it all your own. That's quite alright. That's the opening of the A block, the opening block of the GP Soccer Podcast. Fighting the sniffles here, fighting a little bit of a cold here. Uh I'm Giovanni Piccini. I am the host of your GP Soccer Podcast. We're gonna break for a commercial message or two. You know how that works, and then we'll re-engage on the other side. Don't you dare go. Anyway. Youth soccer has changed. Expectations are higher, but systems haven't kept up. Coaches juggle endless tasks, players chase progress they can't measure, and clubs struggle to create consistency across teams. Zone 14 Coaching was built for this moment. A company built by coaches for coaches, Zone 14 coaching next generation journals of coaches and players help plan every practice, reflect on what worked, and track progress all season long. Built on intentional coaching and backed by neuroscience, Zone 14 coaching brings structure and purpose to your training. The founders of Zone 14 Coaching watched in awe as some of the game's best tacticians and mentors spent every precious moment with a simple pen and paper, meticulously sketching, writing, and planning in a journal. It was a powerful and humbling sight. The foundation of great coaching was a commitment to preparation and a passion for player development. This simple observation sparked a question What if we could give every coach, from the passionate parent of the recreational level to the club's coaching director, access to the same level of structured, thoughtful planning? Zone 14 Coaching is the answer. Visit zone14coaching.com and use the promo code GP20 for 20% off. And if you want to outfit your entire organization or even just one team, contact Zone 14Coing at Zone14Coaching.com for bulk pricing. Zone 14 Coaching, where high-level soccer knowledge and structured planning is accessible and simple.

SPEAKER_05 17:15

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SPEAKER_00 18:03

Hey everyone, this is Dan Abraham's the Dan Abraham Soccer Academy. I am so thrilled to be speaking with Giovanni Pacini of the GP Soccer Podcast.

SPEAKER_09 18:47

And welcome to the GP Soccer Podcast, Conversation with the Coach. And as you know, sometimes I just have to change the conversation to, conversation with, sometimes it's uh an administrator, sometimes it's the player. In this case, here it's conversation with an author. A little setup here. A little setup. The theme, as you will all realize very, very shortly, is about rivalries. And as a lifelong Bostonian, I couldn't help, as I prepared for today's conversation with our with our guests, to think about some of the rivalries that exist here in the Boston area. And a lot of things just came flooding back into my head. You start with the Red Sox Yankees. My goodness. Going back to Babe Ruth, the curse of the Bambino, when he went from the Red Sox to the Yankees, uh, the 2004 Red Sox winning the ALCS and eventual World Series against the Yankees being down 3-0. The Bruins Canadians from the 1970s, Phyllis Posito, Bobby Orr, Ken Dryden goal for the dreaded Canadians. How could you forget the Celtics Lakers from the 1980s? Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Karim Abdul Jabbar, Robert Parrish, and a tremendous cast of players. And then our New England Patriots against their rival, I guess the entire NFL, if you could say. That 20-year stretch where we had Tom Brady, we won six Super Bowls. That was certainly a rival. But we're going to turn our attention today to soccer and the rivalry between the United States and Mexico. Our guest today is Hal Phillips. He is an author, journalist, and media executive based in Southern Maine. He has contributed to ESPN, Sports Illustrated, Soccer America, Soccer Journal, Travel and Leisure, and Golf Magazine. He is the author of Generation Zero, Founding Fathers, Hidden Histories, and the Making of Soccer in America. His latest book is called Sibling Rivalry: How Mexico and the United States built the most contentious, codependent feud in world soccer. Hal Phillips, welcome to the GP Soccer Podcast. Well, thank you for having me, Gio. Pleasure. Fellow Bostonians here. Fellow Bostonians. We'll do the very best we job we can without saying Paktican and Havid Yacht.

SPEAKER_10 20:53

No, you've got it. It's very subtle. And I was just down in Massachusetts last weekend, went to the Celtics, and uh it was so great to be back in Massachusetts where they know how to say Bobby.

SPEAKER_09 21:03

They do indeed. They do indeed. So this is a true trip, but before we hit the record button, I shared with you uh the fact that uh this was a fun read. And again, I don't know if that's the right one, but this was a fun read. Being a soccer person than I am, a soccer professional, uh, and a history buff as well. This was a really fun read, and I and I and I I enjoyed it from from cover to cover. Before we dive into the book, Al, share with my audience uh your your background. You know, where you grew up. Um was soccer always in your in your DNA? Uh take it, take us on the Hal Phillips journey, if you will, from a kid to to your uh your adult years.

SPEAKER_10 21:39

Well, I did grow up in suburban Boston, and my family moved to Wellesley when I was about eight. And when I showed up there, I'd I'd never touched the soccer ball. But when I showed up at school, the game was everywhere. Um I'd never I I'd come from New Jersey, which is a noted hotbed. Um, especially during the 1970s, which is when all this happened. But when I showed up in Boston, there were youth leagues. The Minutemen had just been created. And I remember going to one of the very first games, the very first game that Pele played against the Minutemen. It was incredible. And uh I played in high school, and there were semi-pro leagues when I got out of college. I mean, there was a very advanced and developed soccer culture for this country. I didn't have any sort of conception about what the game looked like elsewhere, but for me, it seemed like it was everywhere. And I loved it. Um, I played a lot of sports, but I did play on a great club team all grown up and um played at Wellesley High School. We won a state championship, and then I played four years at Wesley and down in Connecticut before playing semi-pro in the old Lusso American Soccer Association right there in Eastern Massachusetts, a semi-pro league that was Portuguese administered, but uh diverse is not even the word. Every ethnic group had a team in this league, and it was the best soccer I ever played. So yeah, it was uh it was my team sport growing up, and um I miss it.

SPEAKER_09 23:09

Well, you hit some uh tremendous uh you know pockets of soccer. Again, we Bostonians will will this can resonate. You played it in Wellesley and Wellesley High School. It was great soccer back in those. He had a long time coach to refresh my memory. Um was there for a long period of time at Wellesley High School. Peter Loiter. Peter Loiter, thank you. Yeah, Peter Loy was there for a long time. And uh yeah, and you know, fast forward to the Laza League and uh for a while there. Uh we all know that that arguably was the best the best league in all of New England. Uh all of New England. That was some terrific soccer. So let's get into this book. This again, it was a fun read. So, you know, you you this is really deeply researched, uh, you know, historically, culturally, and it's it's a it's a real sporting examination of the US-Mexico soccer rivalry. And and as you know in the book, this is this is not just an athletic rivalry, but it's it's geopolitical, it's emotional and even familiar. Well, it's got a little bit of a family drama. That's a long way of me asking you how what are the ingredients, not just for this particular rivalry, rivalry with the United States and Mexico, what are the ingredients that create a great rivalry?

SPEAKER_10 24:18

Well, when I talk to people about that, the first thing I tell them is I didn't know any of the stuff before I started researching this book, not intellectually. Uh I I Wellesley is a great rival with Needham in uh soccer in eastern Massachusetts. Wesley and has great rivals with Amherst and Williams, you know, at college. Um, but I usually ask people to talk, to think about their college rivalries because rivalry is wrapped up with identity. And one of the things that we don't do very well in this country is um develop and live by a sporting identity that is national. As you pointed out, all of our ideas about rivalry are college-based or city-based or regional in nature. Whereas the rest of the world, they think about rivalry as, you know, national thing. You know, Mexico was um much more in tune with this aspect of rivalry long before we were. And they wanted to beat Argentina. That's in their brains that was their rival or that was their aspirational rival for decades before the U.S. got you know good enough to care about. Um, but rivalry does have a lot of ingredients. And I talked to a guy named Dr. Joe Cobbs, who teaches at the University of Northern Kentucky and studies it as an academic discipline. And um, one of the things that he pointed out to me too is that it's you have to have this national understanding, which Americans are still working on, but you also have to have frequency. Um, let's think about the last World Cup, um, an amazing final, uh, Argentina and France. Are they rivals? Uh they may never play again. Um, so it does matter how often you play. And here again, um, Mexico and the United States um have an incredible history together. Starting in 1980, um, when we started to become equals, um, they played constantly. And uh not every um great rivalry that you would consider in the same breath does this. I mean, England has a rivalry with uh France. Well, how often do they play? They play when they have to, when they're matched up in a tournament or they they're rarely matched up in World Cup qualifying. So all of these factors sort of come together um along with language. And do you share a border? Have you ever fought a war with another country? And this is what develops international rivalry. And the reason I fixate on it is because it's what makes soccer so unique to American sports fans. It it's got an international dimension that none of our others, our other sports, our major sports, have.

SPEAKER_09 26:58

So let's take a big picture look at your book here. What inspired you to write this book, sibling rivalry? And and and why did you feel the U.S.-Mexico feud deserved a full-length historical and cult the uh cultural treatment?

SPEAKER_10 27:11

Well, my first book was called Generation Zero, and it's really a history of um the of how soccer made it in America. It's about the two decades, the 70s and the 80s, when soccer really came of age in this country. Um, and I sort of lived through that entire um evolution. So it wasn't autobiographical, but I did live the story. I was born in the 60s, I was raised in the 70s during the youth soccer revolution, and the teams that won the World Cup for the women in 1991 and qualified for the Italian World Cup, those guys are exactly my age. So their journeys in soccer are were mine. But in researching that book, um, I kept running into these incredible matches that the U.S. played with Mexico, especially um in the early 80s and starting in the 90s. Um and my book didn't really go into the 90s, you know, it sort of ends before the World Cup that we host in '94. And I said actually in the book itself, hey, you know, if there's a publisher out there, this is going to be a great story. And um Bloomsbury picked up on that and commissioned the book. So God bless them.

SPEAKER_09 28:21

And yeah, you describe the rivalry as as a family drama. What what makes that metaphor so fitting for for these these two countries? Well, do you have brothers and sisters, Giovanni? I do I do indeed.

SPEAKER_10 28:36

Well, I have a younger brother and an older sister, and the dynamic in a family is just like the dynamic you have in a rivalry where one sibling is older and better at something, and the younger one eventually catches up. And when that happens, there are fireworks. And that's the story of the US-Mexico rivalry. Mexico dominated us for 45 years, and they had a rivalry with us not just because um we played them, you know, every every four years in World Cup qualifying, but they got a real charge out of beating up on the United States, which was the big brother in every other sense, geopolitically, culturally, economically, militarily. The United States dominated Mexico. So Mexico really was attached to this idea of beating the United States. Um, whereas the United States didn't really reciprocate because we didn't understand or love the game, and that's a charge that Mexicans are always leveling at Americans. You don't even care about football. You don't love it enough. And we didn't. But starting in 1990, we did, or started to, and that's exactly when our national teams, um especially the men's national team, was finally good enough to be a rival to Mexico. So the family dynamic goes back and forth um in this interesting way. Um, but the the other thing is that, you know, right now, um we really share a North American ecosystem, you know, a football, you know, organism. You know, our our top leagues now cooperate on this Leagues Cup. Um both of the national team programs basically train up the same group of players, these Mexican Americans who are, you know, you know, playing under 17 for the United States and Mexico at the same time. We cooperate on, you know, the television, the broadcasters are, you know, they're those same partners that that that both leagues have and both federations have. And now we're hosting a World Cup together. So while we have this rivalry, and there's you know, it's a tooth and nail thing with uh it's very prideful. And um the players and the especially the Mexican people are just destroyed when they don't win these games, um, at the same time we're growing closer um as brothers and sisters on you know in this continent, in this football endeavor together. So um I love the contrast there, and it's just such a rich story, it had to be written about.

SPEAKER_09 31:10

You know, you you you use the word uh they're destroyed when when they when they don't win. Is it safe to say that on the on the other side of the border, meaning the United States of America, we're not destroyed to use that word, when we lose to Mexico. Yeah, we're disappointed, yeah, we're bummed out, but we're not destroyed. Is is that is that a fair analysis, Sal? I think it's fair.

SPEAKER_10 31:33

But one of the things that uh I touched on, but uh bears more scrutiny is that the United States just has a very limited experience with supporting our national teams in country versus country competitions. We don't really get it. Um we've started to get it, and I think that the World Cup in '94 and US-Mexico rivalry, frankly, have taught Americans how these dynamics work, how much fun it is, how much is actually at stake. Um, but we don't take it seriously as seriously today because who we don't we don't understand even having rival rivalries at the national level. It was far more germane, I think, to Americans in the 80s when we had the Soviet Union as a rival. When we played them in hockey, it was a big deal. When we when our gymnastics, you know, athletes squared off against theirs, it was a big deal. We understood that our identity as a country was wrapped up in that. When the Soviet Union went away, there were no rivals. And all of a sudden, um, you know, people are trying to understand how it is that the the wait, the NBA is gonna send um a team of professionals to the Olympics? People sort of thought that was fun. And that was another sort of um leaping off point to our modern understanding of this. And I think the women's national team has taught the United States a lot about how national team, you know, sports work and how much fun they are, and how much of our identity can and should be wrapped up in these matches. Did you watch any of the world baseball classic that was on at the in early March?

SPEAKER_09 33:13

I did indeed. I thoroughly enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_10 33:15

Yeah, me too. And and this is our national pastime. Um and yet uh when we played Venezuela in the final, there were 60,000 Venezuelans in the in the stadium in Miami, and they won the game. And you could see how much they wanted to win the game. Um, they get it. They they are raised in a culture where they're playing um South American qualifying all the time. They're playing volleyball and their swim teams. They get behind their national teams in a way that we only do every four years when the Olympics roll around. So we're learning, and I think that soccer is probably the most important teaching tool that we have when it comes to this kind of dynamic, because you know, international soccer is just the best. You are watching um the highest level of the game in many ways, but you have people in the stands who who care, just they care a lot more. They they I'm trying to I try to explain this to American readers and viewers. College sports is really the only way where we invest in the identity of a team that um that that is competing against another school. We finally feel the stakes that I think international sports are supposed to engender in us. And again, being in New England, we don't even care about college sports. So in many ways, it's a tough sell. But I think Mexico and the U.S. has shown us how fun it can be and how it just goes on forever.

SPEAKER_09 34:39

In your answer there, Hal, you touched upon some heavy duty dynamics, specifically geopolitics, uh culture, uh, economic forces. How do you balance those those elements? Because they are they are indeed important to you to the narrative here. How do you balance that with all those things with telling a soccer story?

SPEAKER_10 34:59

Well, I think people do understand rivalry on some level. Everyone's got a relationship with it in some way, be it a high school um rivalry or a collegiate rivalry or Red Sox, you know, Yankees. They get it. They understand why people choose sides. And um, you know, it's really impossible to even imagine international sports without identity. Um, you know, before, you know, you might as well play shirts and skins if you're not going to team up and and play us against them. Um, but I think the other really fun sort of dynamics that are going on here, and this is true of every national team match that we've ever played against Mexico, is that with these two countries, there's a whole lot of envy and scorn going on. But again, Dr. Cobbs, our rivalry scholar, points out that rivalries don't work without envy and scorn. And I'll try to I'll try to keep this as brief as I can because I'm not a psychologist. But anytime you um compare yourself to another group of people, another group of humans, um the the dynamics of envy and scorn enter into it. And I think we all get this. Um we envy the Yankees, their success, right? Um, and um scorn is the other powerful emotion going in the other direction. The big brother tends to scorn the little brother, no matter how good the little brother is. And they don't do it by taunting them. Envy is very yappy. Scorn is silent. You don't really want to talk about them at all. Well, you're beneath my contempt. I don't why are we even talking? You don't love this game enough. Well, I don't need to talk about you. You're not a real rival. Well, that's all well and good until um the big brother is beaten. And then the stakes triple. And then the next time they triple again. So this, you know, careens off into its own life, that this rivalry. And, you know, we we see that. Um, I'm so glad to see the Bruins back in the playoffs, and what a game that was they played last night. They choked it away, but um, I'm happy for the Sabres. But, you know, the next game is going to be that much more intense because they've they've lit the fuse. And um, envy and scorn in this way um are the dominant dynamics in any rivalry. The unique thing about the United States and Mexico is that we have envy and scorn going in both directions. Um, I talked to a bunch of scholars, and it's not a scholarly book, I think you can vouch for that, but I do think these things are central to understanding what we're talking about. Um, Argentina and Brazil, they have an amazing rivalry, but they don't ever play each other until they have to. And also, um, Argentinians envy nothing about Brazil that they will admit to. And Brazilians envy nothing about Argentina that they will admit to. The truly you know, interesting thing about U.S. and Mexico is that we have envy and scorn going both ways. I can tell you that um people who grew up playing soccer in this country who are my age, I'm 60, um, we envied Mexican soccer for decades because it was established. Um, not only did they beat us, so they were obviously good, but they had a professional league and um they had incredible fans. And um, so we definitely envied them in that way while still scorning them as the big brother, you know, geopolitically. On the other side, they definitely envy American culture. They partake of it, they uproot their families and move um to this country, you know, for en masse, you know, for hundreds of years. Um, but then at the same time, they're the soccer big brother, so they scorn us for not loving soccer enough. These are what make it the great rivalry that it is, and in many ways, internationally, it's the best one because no other rivalry has this much going on psychologically.

SPEAKER_09 38:52

So this rivalry, United States and Mexico, it began in 1934, and that first match Mexico lost that that first meeting. Um, you write in the book that this this immediately ignited a Mexican competitive fire, that that initial loss back in 1934. While it took the United States almost 50 years to fully recognize the rivalry's significance. Um what were the seminal moments, if there were seminal moments, or maybe there was one, Hal, that once and for all the United States finally said, you know what? Um this this is a problem. This is an issue. We keep getting our butts handed to us by our southern neighbors here. We we better step up. What were those moments, if indeed there were moments, that that caused the United States to to uh wake up its collective soccer head?

SPEAKER_10 39:37

Well, for Mexico, I think it's simple. In 1934, when we beat them, and we were the better team. We were a seeded team at the previous World Cup, and Mexico had never done anything internationally in terms of soccer. But we'd already been bullying a Mexico as a country and as a culture for a hundred plus years by that point. So they were they wanted a piece of us bad and uh to have lost just lit the fire underneath them in a huge way. And for the next 50 years, they put it to us. I would say for the United States, we didn't really take it seriously until 1991, when Bora Milutinovich, the former coach of the Mexican national team, took over our national team program, which, you know, we had just qualified for our first modern World Cup in 1990. We had the World Cup coming in 1994. Things were ramping up. MLS was being planned, it was not going to debut for a few years, but it was part of our obligation in um in uh hosting the World Cup. We told FIFA we'd have a league, and we did eventually. But all this was happening, and um the powers that be in U.S. soccer realized that they couldn't um just keep taking it on the chin against Mexico if we were gonna be a self-respecting soccer nation. Um they hired Bora away from Mexico and put him to work with this group of kids who um started my first book, Generation Zero, and bango, we beat Mexico in the very first Gold Cup, which was the very first Continental Championship in the modern sense. They had other things like that. And just light bulb after light bulb went off above everyone's head on both sides. Number one, here was a rivalry that was instant, instant, you know, an instant classic, what uh Spanish speakers call the classico. You have all these geopolitical, cultural, military, economic, and social issues between these two countries, and oh my goodness, now they're equals. Great. Um, people will watch that on television. Everyone saw that the gold cup had to be arranged and not held every four years because we want to watch U.S. Mexico every two years. So they held it biennially. And um, you're guaranteed to get amazing crowds and amazing ratings all over North America with those teams playing each other. I think we played each other from 1995, well, I think through the 90s, I think we played them 22 times. So there's the frequency that we talked about. And you know what? I think we were the U.S. was seven wins, seven losses, and eight ties. That is an equal match. So at that point, it was clear to the United States that, hey, this rivalry thing is fun. The Mexicans are beatable. Um, every time we play them at the Rose Bowl, 100,000 people show up to watch. Um, it's a crazy scene because 80,000 of them are Mexican Americans and they're partying in the parking lot for six hours ahead of time. Um, this is something that uh that television um producers love. It's called pageantry. And you can almost guarantee it when you put these two teams on the field. Uh so I think 1991 is the turning point for this country. Um, and then there was another important turning point in 2002 where um the Mexicans finally started taking us seriously as a rival when we knocked them out of the World Cup. Um that was all they needed to see. All of a sudden, it didn't matter how much we loved the game or didn't. Um we had embarrassed them on a world stage, and they wanted a piece of us even worse.

SPEAKER_09 43:02

Let's examine for a moment how um what transpires in the stadium? Because you read extensively about border dynamics and economic anxieties, the geopolitics we touched upon. How do these real-world tensions kind of manifest themselves in the stadium? We're we're familiar with the ultras, we're we're we're familiar with the hooligans, and oftentimes, you know, those folks you know come into the stadium with a with a different agenda than a soccer match. What what what are your thoughts on on that element and how they manifest themselves in the stadium itself?

SPEAKER_10 43:39

Well, generally, I think it can be a truly frightening experience. I went and did a year in London um at university in 1985, which was the nadir of British fan violence. It was insane, Gio, to to be there. Um I went to four different um stadiums in um in London. In in the spring of 1985, and um I barely got out a couple of them with my life. It was not a joke. So it can be a very serious thing. Um, but in this respect, the U.S.-Mexico rivalry is very lucky because the Mexicans are some of the most polite people on earth, and their fan culture inside a stadium is hilarious and can be quite transgressive, but it's never threatening physically. So I don't think anyone has a problem with that. I think the real issue is that the Americans are only now sort of warming to the fight in this way, where the you know, the luche Libra mask is, you know, masks that that are worn traditionally by Mexicans, the Americans are starting to wear it. There's a lot of cosplay going on. Look, it's a party when these two teams play. If they're not playing in a World Cup where the stakes are just sort of um death-defyingly high, it's a party. Everyone is um tailgating outside beforehand. And, you know, I've been to situations where the fan groups mix and they want to drink with you um until you're in the stadium. Then the chance comes and it gets a little bit more um oppositional. But it's it's generally really happy. Um, and I've been, you know, to games north of the border, I've been to games south of the border, and the atmosphere is spectacular. And I have to say, most of that is due to the Mexican slash Mexican American influence, because um games are fun. They are about hanging out and rooting for your team and dressing up and wearing giant sombreros and doing the Mexican wave, which of course they invented. Um, these are all aspects of Mexican soccer generally. But um when you have 80,000 um Mexican Americans in the Rose Bowl, it is uh quintuples because they are very, very interested in having a good time, but they're also very, very interested in being the United States. One of the things that really interested me was everyone agrees that um Mexicans who live in Mexico, they want to be the United States for all the reasons we've talked about, but they're really sort of like us. They they aspire to a higher level of international credibility, um, and they would love to be rivals with Argentina, for example, but they're not good enough. Um and uh in this country, um, we have the same exact um aspirations. But Mexican Americans are a little different. They might root for the United States um if we're playing Bulgaria, but when they're playing Mexico, they want to beat the United States first and foremost. And we are the primary rival. So in that way, Mexican Americans have a very different experience from um their relatives um south of the border.

SPEAKER_09 46:41

You know, I've been to, as have you, countless soccer games in my in my life, uh countless. And there's there was never a game, a match that I ever felt that my life was threatened until two years ago. I attended the 2024 uh uh final uh uh match between Argentina and Colombia at the Hard Rock Stadium down in Miami.

SPEAKER_10 47:06

Oh, that was crazy down there.

SPEAKER_09 47:07

Oh, and I was in the middle of it all. And um never hell did I ever thought I would experience something like this. Uh I remember you know arriving at the stadium with a friend and colleague of mine. We took an Uber down there and he kind of let us off on the perimeter of the parking area, and as we made our way to the stadium, it was it was a party, as you so aptly described. It was an absolute party, it was wonderful, absolutely wonderful. Uh as we got closer to the gate where we were supposed to enter, uh the gates were shit had were shut down, and they were shut down beyond the time frame that they were supposed to have been opened. Now, mind you, it's 90 degrees in Miami this particular evening. And we waited and waited and waited, and all of a sudden temper started to flare and punches started to get thrown. Uh they'd opened the gates, and it was just a flood of humanity, you know, getting into the stadium. They knocked over the uh the ticket mechanisms, they knocked over uh security, and they made their way up into the stadium. They were climbing the walls. Um and I got caught, I literally got caught up in this massive humanity forcing me up the stairs. I remember my face being crushed against the the wall. I I'm I'm I fall down, I get up, I make it to the top of the stairs, I'm battered, I'm bruised, I'm looking for, I'm looking for my my friend. He makes it up. And uh we were concerned that we weren't gonna have our seats, even though we had tickets because people were getting in there without tickets, and they were they were assuming a seat and they weren't relinquishing their seat because, well, heck, they made it into the stadium. Now, thankfully, we did get in there. Uh we sat amongst predominantly Argent un Argentinian folks who embraced us um you know uh as as fans. Um, but I had never in my entire life ever experienced anything like that. Um and when I share that story with with you know a lot of my friends who are just casual sports fans, you know, they're like, really? Really? Why do people get so crazy about all of that? It's very difficult to explain uh why why people get to the to the state of mind that they that they get they get to, that they get to. But yeah, uh that was the that was the only time, Hal where I I really thought um I didn't think I was gonna die, but I knew I was gonna get pretty pretty beat up and and I did. Um fortunately I got into the see the game. It was a great game, and Argentina uh ends up winning, I say, one-nil over Colombia, but it was it was something. Um let's talk about the media. The media uh, you know, can fuel rivalries. Well, what role does the media coverage in both these countries play in kind of shaping the narrative of this rival between the United States and Mexico?

SPEAKER_10 49:46

Well, I got my hands on um the national archive of a of a sports daily that existed for the entirety of the 20th century in Mexico called La Afición, meaning the fan. And um it was amazing to go through that archive because you really realize that media just sort of does the the the um the trash talking for the country or for the region or for the city. We don't really have a national sports daily in this country, so it's hard for us to imagine that a single media entity outside of television could ever speak for the country. But in Mexico and a lot of countries, these dailies do exactly that. And they're the ones who actually voice the indignation or the triumphalism that happens, you know, uh ahead of a game and after every game. So they can do a lot. Um, you know, again, like as with the fan culture um you just described, the United States has a pretty staid and steady law and order sort of idea about how these things should be handled. We really don't have fan problems the way they have in many other countries, and um, that's an entirely different book. Um, I've got my ideas, but yeah, media is a massive um portion of this. And, you know, the United States just didn't hold up its end of the bargain until 1990. All we had was noise from one end. And starting in the 1990s, we started um putting these games on television. Um people like Seamus Mallon, who wrote the introduction to my book, um, really did a lot to educate the United States about how these things work and also start putting, you know, being speaking frankly about the Mexican as uh the Mexican team as uh an opponent. Um by the time, you know, um the 21st century arrives, you know, I think we ramped up pretty well. But it's a different dynamic where I don't I don't think people um we're s we're loading up um, I don't think American fans were loading up on stuff uh online about the national teams. That stuff is still left, you know, to fan sites and comment sections about specific teams. You can get into some pretty serious pissing magic massage matches via media, but the media itself has a sort of more decorous uh approach to this kind of thing. Um in Mexico, um, they're cheerleaders, and um, they say it plain that they think the Mexicans must beat the Americans now to salvage the national pride. One thing that was fascinating to me in the 90s when the United States got good is that the Mexican national team players they saw the rise of this team that was right over the border before anyone else did, and they spoke frankly about it before anybody else dared do so. And nobody wanted to hear this. Um, the United States won a famous match down at the Copa America, both Mexico and the U.S. were invited to that tournament in 1995 in Uruguay, and uh the U.S. knocked um knocked the uh Mexicans out of that tournament in the quarterfinal. And you'd have thought that we had come in and burned down their parliament. I mean, it was it was a huge, huge moment. And you know, the players um before that game, well, I think it was before the next game, they tried to say, you know what, um, it's not gonna be a piece of art the next game. It's gonna be it's gonna be a dirty game, it's gonna be difficult, um, but we're gonna do our best. And basically everyone shot back at them and with you know, multiple media outlets saying, um, it's not good enough just to fight hard. You need to win. And they ended up sort of taunting and um not attacking, but taunting their own national team, um trying to tell them that this attitude, this respectful attitude you have toward the Americans, won't do. So it's an amazing dynamic to watch from afar. Um again, it's just so foreign to us. Um during the World Baseball Classic, I thought that um we saw a very interesting moment when um Fox, which uh broadcast the final and the whole tournament, you know, they sort of had this military gloss to everything that was going on in that final, and that they they talked to the players and got them to say things like, oh, you know, we're fighting for those who were defending us in the Gulf. And um we don't, it's just sort of off the mark. No, you don't do that. I mean, what's happening in the Gulf has nothing to do with a baseball game in in Miami. It's enough that you're just playing for your country, right? It's that's what it's about. You shouldn't have to jack yourself up, you know, by thinking about who's stationed overseas. So um it's an interesting tableau and uh it's ever unfolding. And, you know, mostly the directory in this country, the trajectory I should say, is up. I think that um, and I'd be interested in your thoughts. I mean, I think the media, the media coverage is better and better. Um, and you know, especially, you know, in print where they can go into some detail and take some shots and not worry about, you know, getting fired from a television job. But I I think that we we've made a lot of progress in this respect, don't you?

SPEAKER_09 54:46

Yeah, there's no question about it. I mean, I'm long enough, I'm old enough to remember, you know, soccer reporting, you know, being reluctantly reported reported number one. And when it was, it was rudimentary at best and and and you know, uh presented by a person of sports cash who knew, you know, wouldn't know a soccer ball from a softball. And so from that standpoint, my own life, yeah, it's gotten a heck of a lot better. Um I you know, as I as I look at the media, I look at it kind of in in two facets, if you will, or or two two different uh areas. You get the the traditional sports media that, yeah, they're aware of soccer now and they know it's out there, they know it's popular, um, and they and they do a they practice a little bit of due diligence in terms of reporting things. It's not until you get to the other side of the media, the other bucket, if you will, of folks who played the game, maybe were in the fight. I think of I think of people like Alexi Lawless and Landon Nunavan that immediately come to mind that that know this battle firsthand, and they're out there. They're they're the media now. They're the ones that can give you the real nuts and bolts, the real grit, the blood uh, you know, that that that uh was was uh that existed in in games in games like that. Um we need more of the latter than the former than the than the former to really uh you know educate educate the casual sports fans as to what this really is all about, what this passion is really all about, um to allow the to get a little bit more of a an understanding of what uh you know what what these these these rivalries uh uh represent. So we're we're hosting. We're hosting with our our uh friends across the border from north and south, uh, United States, Mexico, and Canada. Um so with with U.S. and Mexico co-hosting, along with Canada, as I noted, now how do you see this rivalry evolving in coming years? With it pretty much status quo, or is it still gonna uh a ways to go in terms of um you know heightening the rival between these two countries?

SPEAKER_10 56:44

Well, I I I don't think that there's a it's ever gonna stay in the status quo. I think it's just gonna keep building. Um and all you gotta do is read the newspaper and and see that politically um this is uh you know immigration is the the most white hot issue we've got in this country. And um, as long as the U.S. is playing Mexico um in anything, um it's gonna be uh hyped and it's gonna matter. It's gonna matter a little more um than it would normally, and it already matters a lot. So I I don't know that there'll be a whole lot of interaction at this World Cup, but I think I think we've noticed with a 48 team field um that if we stick with this, and um FIFA um doesn't show any sign of you know turning back the clock, I think we're stuck with this larger field. Um CONCACAF, you know, the governing body here in North America, they'd be crazy to put the United States in the same qualifying group as Mexico when it comes to World Cup qualifying, and with six to eight teams qualifying, I don't see us ever playing Mexico again in World Cup qualifying. That that just that that seems like a lock. Um, there are other places like the Nations League um where they will play each other and there will be friendlies, which um when you have you know 80,000 Mexicans um uh at Texas Stadium is always gonna be a crazy scene. And I say crazy in a good way. Um but you know, how will it change going forward? Well, one of the things I talk about in the book is that in a in a family, you know, when you're playing your brother in wiffle ball, you know, is there a home field advantage? Well, I think the home field advantages are are just sort of falling away. Um the doseros um dynamic, you know, beating the Mexican national team at Columbus, Ohio's MLS club-owned stadium, you know, a smaller stadium where you can limit tickets, you know, so that um the Americans do have a majority in the stand. That worked for a long time, but um those stadias are just too small now. And uh I don't think we're ever going to see uh a World Cup qualifier or an important match against Mexico in a stadium that small. And when you throw it open, um you automatically uh run the risk of um the crowd being overrun by Mexican Americans because they will travel thousands of miles to support El Tree. So I think the United States um has without World Cup qualifying in the picks, I think we're gonna be playing Mexico in bigger stadiums, and the crowd situation will be something more akin to what we saw in the 90s, where um, and Lexi Alallis told me this right up. It's like it was terrible trying to beat a team that is at least as good as you um and never playing a home game, no matter where it's held. At the same time, um I think that uh Estadio Azteca has already lost its um sort of mythical powers um of protection when it comes to the the Mexican national team. You know, they haven't beaten us um since 2013 in Mexico. Um, we've gotten a couple draws there, and everyone agrees that Azteca is just a different place since they retrofitted it first for the NFL and then for um the World Cup that starts in June. So um, you know, will they play World Cup qualifiers at the Stadia? No. Um will we play Mexico at the Azteca again? Yes, but I think that no one's afraid of that like they used to. That's more fun. I think that all the games are neutral grounds when it comes to playing home and away. One of the most interesting aspects of the book is um the dynamic whereby the Mexican national team plays its friendlies almost exclusively now, north of the border. Um, they can make more money. Um, chart, you know, luring 80,000 Mexican Americans to Texas Stadium and having them pay in dollars. Mexican nationals in Mexico hate this, but um, this is the way it's gonna go. But when you think about it competitively, um the Mexican players are very comfortable playing in the United States now. They do it all the time.

SPEAKER_09 1:01:00

Yeah, well, you know, with with uh Liga MX and MLS now, I won't say they're partners per se, but there is a certain uh uh level of collaboration between the two. I think there's a uh a newfound comfort zone, if you will, between the two nations in soccer where these things that we're talking about, you know, do exist, where Mexican players can come to the United States and play in MLS teams and and fit in and do well and be cheered for. And conversely, you know, you can see players who go down to Mexico, and if they perform well, they're gonna get, you know, you know, cheered on as well. Um and I guess that you know that's a good thing, you know, we have that kind of collaboration. We see these things in real time, players from the north going to the south and and and vice versa. Um and I don't think it it even diminishes this passion and this rivalry. Um that can still be sustained, yet still have this, you know, again, collaboration between, like I said, seeing players going from north to south and south to north. What are your thoughts on that one?

SPEAKER_10 1:01:56

I I think you're right. I think that the the general ethos of professionals today is different from what we grew up with or even what existed 25 years ago. When you when you when you see games end um in the Premier League, for example, um I think there's gen genuine sort of kinship. Maybe not yesterday after the Manchester City Arsenal match, which was uh excellent. Uh uh a lot of bad blood going on there, but they these guys realize that they're they're in the entertainment business. Um they know each other, um, they seek each other out and um and embrace when the game's over. Um even you know, English players and French players, for example, um that's supposed to be a rivalry. They know each other. They they turn it on when it's time to play the match, and they turn it off when the match is over. Um, I I guess I like that. Um, but uh I guess I would say that um the US and the Mexican sort of relationship is closer because so many of these guys have family on both sides of the border now. Um, like you say, I I really do think that Liga MX and MLS are partners now.

SPEAKER_09 1:03:05

I would be remiss, Hal, if I didn't uh get your thoughts, your input uh to the upcoming World Cup, um specifically our U.S. men. How do you feel uh in terms of um you know their their placement in the group? Uh what are your thoughts on them getting out of the group? And if they do get out of the group, how far can they advance? What do you what are your thoughts on our U.S. men as we uh as we look forward to the upcoming World Cup?

SPEAKER_10 1:03:27

I was a lot more optimistic five months ago. Um I'm not I'm not I'm not filled with I'm not filled with joy and optimism um going forward. I I do believe that that, and I've written about it for soccer America and others, that I think this is the deepest talent pool we've ever um had the opportunity to avail ourselves of. Uh, but they've just not looked good um in the in the build-up. And and now it's a question of you know who's gonna be healthy, and that's of course something every team deals with. But I do believe that um Pochettino was a good coach. I believe that uh um as with any tournament, though the hope is that you sort of show up and and catch fire. You never know what's gonna happen. Only only four or five teams can show up to a tournament and expect maybe we don't play well, but we'll still get out of the group and then we get better with every match. That's what you do in a tournament. Um and uh I think that we have the chance to do that. And if everything went really well, I I think we could get to the quarterfinals. And depending on the draw, you never know at that point. I was just watching you know highlights of the 2010, the 2010 um World Cup. I mean, do you realize how close we came to like you know having a shot at the at the final there? I mean, we we should have beat Ghana, and then the next opponent, you know, was Uruguay, a team that we could take. I mean, it was things in a tournament fall a certain way, and you just never know how it's gonna come out. Um, but I I I like I like the pieces of this team, and I think that with a little confidence, a couple of wins under their belt in front of a home crowd, everything will change. Um, but it does show that we haven't played a competitive match under Pochettino ever. And uh that's very difficult to take and then drop into a World Cup and expect much.

SPEAKER_09 1:05:12

Yeah, and and Alexei Alles talks about this extensively about the United States' inability to beat an A-level side. You know, they they they had a chance, you know, uh against Portugal and they had a chance against Belgium in these last two matches and failed and failed miserably. Um sure, they can they can play teams, countries, you know, regionally and do well, but unless you're you're beating with some consistency the big boys, um, there is reason for concern. Um my issues is the are are players on both ends of the field. I'll start with goalkeeping. I'm a I'm a goalkeeping guy. I don't think Matt Freeze is I don't think I don't I think the goalkeeping pool is uh is maybe not the best that we've seen. Certainly we we've we've seen some great goalkeeping pools going back, you know, generations. I think there's a weakness there. And then at the other end of the field, who is going to be our finisher? Who's going to be our number nine? Losing Patrick Amajan to Achilles' Achilles' issues is devastating. But I don't see a forward, a number nine, who strikes fear in the hearts of defenders that can that can you know put a ball in the back of the net. I look at Erling Haaland yesterday, you know, Man City against Arsenal. The ball he put away falling to the ground. He was going to put that ball away. We don't have that. Well, wait a minute.

SPEAKER_10 1:06:31

I'm going to disagree with you. I agree with you on the goalkeeping side. But Balogun for Monaco has been great. He has. Yes. And he's the guy. Everyone else who would possibly have challenged him, Ricardo Pepe and Haji Wright, I don't think they're anywhere near as good as him. Although I think both of those guys are going to make that team and are going to play. No question.

SPEAKER_09 1:07:36

Our guest today on the GP Soccer Podcast conversation with the author is the terrific Hal Phillips. He is the author of the Sibling Rivalry, How Mexico in the United States built the most contentious, codependent feud in world soccer. It is a must-read. And I'll end as I open. This has been for me personally as a soccer guy and a history buff. This was a fun read. This was a really joyful read. So, Hal, once again, many thanks for coming on the GP Soccer Podcast. Appreciate your time. Always my pleasure, Gio. Giovanni Pacini here, the host of the GP Soccer Podcast. We're going to break for a commercial message or two. You know how that all works. On the other side, we will re-engage. Don't you dare go anywhere. Soccer is known around the world as both a sport and an art, with players of all ages and abilities enjoying the game. Now, the art of the game is only realized after hours of mastering ball skills, learning to communicate with your teammates, and receiving support and instruction from the right coaches. With over 100 years of coaching experience, Director John Barrata and the coaching staff at the Beautiful Games Soccer Academy are pleased to offer their expertise to players and their parents. Coach Barada is one of the most decorated and accomplished soccer coaches in the Northeast with a proven track record of developing both talented players and coaches. The Beautiful Games Soccer Academy believes that success on the soccer field breeds success elsewhere in a young adult's life. Players who attend learn the importance of forming good habits, attempting new challenges without the fear of failure, and seeking out support and advice from others. The program fosters the creativity within each player and encourages them to experiment, improvise, and problem solve on the fly. At the Beautiful Game Soccer Academy, every day starts with a smile on our face and a ball at our feet. To learn more about the Beautiful Game Soccer Academy, visit www.beautifulgamesa.com.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:36

Hi, this is John Gregg. I'm a professional AI contributor to Game Run Platform for AI Analytics. You are listening to the GP Soccer Podcast with host Giovanni Piccini.

SPEAKER_09 1:09:47

And welcome to the GP Soccer Podcast, Coach's Corner, where you'll find great tips and advice on how to teach the great game of soccer.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:57

Hello everybody, Eric Eisenhoot here of the United Goalkeeping Alliance. I'm here today to speak to you about the Coaching Corner for Goalkeepers on the GP Soccer Podcast. Today's topic, free kicks and the goalkeepers role. Can we first agree on two things? One, free kicks can be very, very dangerous situations. And two, goalkeepers are ultimately the one responsible for leading the team when defending free kicks. If you answered yes to both of these questions, let me ask you another question specifically to head coaches. Do you train this as a team? Within the team setting, do you discuss the goalkeeper's role? Do you educate goalkeepers on how to set up a wall, their positioning, and then marking their remaining teammates either in a zone or in a man-to-man setup? Head coaches, do you discuss with the field players what their roles are? Who's in the wall? The number of people in the wall based on the location of the free kick? Who's marking up their opponents? Are you doing a zone or are you marking up man on man and size versus size? Are you holding a line? Do they know the difference between defending an inswinger versus an outswinger? Do they understand they have to listen to the GK and that tone coming out of the goalkeeper is describing urgency. It's nothing personal. And can you also communicate to the entire team that all of this needs to get done pretty much in less than eight seconds? So, head coaches, knowing this is a very dangerous situation, can I challenge you to train defending free kicks on a weekly basis? Reasons for that? The psychological pressures on a goalkeeper during this situation is incredibly high. And if everyone knows their role and understands to listen to their goalkeeper, the pressure is reduced drastically on that goalkeeper. So, head coaches, take control of this situation, train this regularly, defending free kicks, because this is ultimately a competitive advantage against those teams that don't train this regularly. Everybody, thank you for listening. This is Eric Eisenhunt, proud United Goalkeeping Alliance board member. Now back to the GP Soccer Podcast.

SPEAKER_07 1:12:24

This is Soccer News and Analysis with Giovanni Pacini.

SPEAKER_09 1:12:36

From the Associated Press. Newly crowned City R champion Intimilan received a blessing from Pope Leo on Saturday. This is undoubtedly a moment of great joy for you all, and I'm delighted to share it with you, Leo said. While I congratulate you, I invite you to reflect on the experience you have had so that in this moment of success you may become bearers of a message that is particularly useful for the growth of young people. Leo reminded the players that many youngsters look to them as their heroes and urge them to keep their res keep that responsibility in mind. Interpresident Giuseppe Marotta presented Leo with a personalized inter shirt bearing the number 10 and the name Leone 14. Lautudo Martinez had a goal and an assist in the contest. The teams will square up again in Rome for the Italian Cup Final as Inter attempts to complete the double. Lionel Messi had a goal and two assists to become the fastest player in MLS history to reach the 100 goal contributions, and Inter Miami doubled up on host Toronto FC 4-2. Messi had 59 goals and field and 41 assists in 64 regular season matches, shattering the old record of 95 set by Toronto's Sebastian Jovinko. Christian Pulisic missed AC Milan's 3-2 loss to Atalanta in City out with a lower back injury and another blow for the U.S. star, already struggling with poor form and a record goal-scoring drought. Italian media reported that Pulisic will undergo medical tests. A 27-year-old hasn't scored in a career-high 17 league matches since December the 28th. Goals by Marcus Rashford in the night in the ninth minute, and Fernand Torres in the 18th gave Barca the win and an insurmountable 14-point lead over Real with three rounds remaining. Coach Hansi Flick was in the dugout for Sunday's Classico following the death of his father, which Barcelona announced hours before the kickoff. Union Berlin's Maria Louis Etta became the first female coach to win a game in the European Soccer's top five men's leagues when she oversaw a three-to-one victory three-to-one Bundesliga victory over months. Saying it had changed its mind about the inflamm inflationary price price hikes that planned over the next three years. Fans refused to spend money on drinks and food in the club's Anfill Stadium by way of protest. In World Cup news, U.S. midfielder Johnny Cardozo sprained his right ankle in practice five weeks before the World Cup. His Spanish club Atletico Madrid said the club did not give a timetable for his return. And lastly, amid outcry, the New Jersey Transit is reducing a planned 150-round trip fare to MetLife Stadium during the World Cup to$105. At Soccer News and Analysis for the AP, I'm Giovanni Piccini. Next up, the great Ralph Rigno with the European Report.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:35

So let's start off with Spain, the number two ranked team in the world. They are considered to be one of the major favorites to win the tournament overall. And many say that they are the team to beat. And in fact, the data analysts from Opta gives Spain a 17% chance of winning the World Cup this year, and that's the highest of any team. Now, in 2024, they won the Euros, defeating England in the final, and many say that they have an absolute embarrassment of talent at their disposal, having a blend of experienced players such as Manchester City's Rodri at one end of the spectrum, and elite young talent at the other end, notably Barcelona's Lamin Yamal. As I say, they comfortably won the qualifying group and are now placed in Group H alongside Uruguay, Saudi Arabia and Cape Verde, with the match against Uruguay seen as the battle for the top spot. The key challenge that the Spanish are going to face overall is very much like the French team to the north, living up to their billing and the expectations. The team's strength, again as with the French, is they have depth in all areas of the field. They play an aggressive high line and counter press to win the ball back immediately upon losing it. They have evolved over the years from a tick-attacker type of possession into a much more direct, explosive side, but they still are very, very technically dominant. The catalyst is the previously mentioned Lamin Yamal. He is the team's focal point, he's a fearless dribbler on the wing, and he is capable of unlocking deep sitting defenses. The depth I mentioned earlier. Rodri is a key player, but look who he has as backups, outstanding players like the Arsenal duo of Zubamendi and Miguel Moureno. And the squad base uh boasts many, many creative options like the three lads here from Barcelona, Danielmo, Pedri, and Femin Lopez. So overall, the prospects for Spain are they are very much favoured for a deep run in the tournament and a title contender. They have the strengths, they have the depth. The question is, can they make it count when it matters? Just to the west in the Iberian Peninsula there to Spain, we have Portugal, the number five ranked team in the world. And this is another very strong loaded team that will be considered to be a contender to go deep into the tournament. In fact, they are touted as the number one dark horse team behind the traditional favoured teams such as France, Spain, Brazil, etc. They are regarded by Opta as the eighth most likely winner. They have been placed in group K with Colombia, Uzbekistan, and the Dim and the Democratic Republic of the Congo. So that's a group in which they should advance. And despite being in his forties, Cristiano Ronaldo is expected to lead this highly talented squad. However, I think it's fair to say that they are now evolving to play without having to rely solely upon him. They have players like Bruno Fernandez of Manchester United and Rafael Leo of AC Milan who can shine and really carry the team forward. The team's strength, excellent talent depth like Spain. And while Ronaldo remains the leader, as I say, the team is far less reliant on him. Fernandez, Leo, Bernardo Silva, Rubin Diaz, all these players have knowledge and pedigree to lead the team individually. Tactically, Diaz at the back is the undisputed leader. He has great organizational ability to keep his defense together. Manager Roberto Martinez likes to be tacal flexible, able to switch systems, but very much he has a strong core in the middle of the park. The structure is built upon players being able to change positions and players like Bruno Fernandez being creative and leading the team forward. Up front, they have many, many fast runners to hit and to play in, such as Network Chelsea, Leo, who I'd mentioned previously, very much a 1v1 type of player, Gonzalo Ramos and friend and Francisco Conte Sau. Portugal has considerable attacking power. However, the previously mentioned Ronaldo does remain a conundrum in some ways. He's 41 now, he's a clinical finisher, he has an incredible 143 career international goals, but his place within the squad could affect the dynamics. So the prospects. Roberto Martinez's squad is, as many point out, is loaded. They should be a major threat to reach at least the semi-finals. Meantime, we have Switzerland, the number 19 team ranked in the world by FIFA. And the Swiss are a consistent knockout performer. They are projected to do well in their group and they have strong potential for a deep run in the knockouts and as I say, heavy favourites to win their group. Group B with Canada, Qatar, and Bosnia and Herzegovina. The Swiss team is known for being disciplined, they are reliable, maybe not the most creative team around, but they have experienced leaders like Grani Jacka and Manuel Akanji anchoring the team. This leads to their team strength, which is very, very strong defensive stability. And as a team, they are very, very organized. They are collective in the sense that they play together, they have that spirit, and they are notoriously difficult to break down in open play, where Akanji plays a big, big role with his positioning and his incredible and exceptional recovery speed. In front of the defense they have that double pivot of Jaca and Remo Frulla. They are the defensive shield, they direct the buildup of the team and they set a very competitive tone for the squad. The team overall from there relies on high intensity pressing and collective movement, and they are not maybe so big on individual star power. They do, however, have a big physical presence up front in Briel Embelow. He is their primary target man. He's physical, he's a direct runner, and he is very much central to the plans of the team tactic. Behind Embelow, they have a good supporting cast, Noah Akafor and Ruben Vargas. They provide pace, particularly in the wide areas. So overall, the Swiss looking at them as a team, they are renowned for their consistency. They have reached the knockouts now in three consecutive World Cups. And as I said earlier, they are favoured to advance within their group. Finally, we have the number 41 ranked team, the Czech Republic. The Czechs are maybe at the other end of the spectrum competitively, however, they are considered to be competitive overdog underdogs, and they have reached the tournament via a difficult playoff route, which we'll come back to. They are in a tough group, Group A, which features one of the hosts Mexico, South Korea, and South Africa. During the qualifying rounds, the Czechs had a little bit of a Jekyll and hide time being strong at home but inconsistent away when they were on the road. So very much the knockout stage prospects are dependent on them finding form early in the competition. Overall, they have a very, very solid squad and they are capable of upsets. Can they aim to surprise some of the more established nations? We will have to wait and see, although historically they have tradition having twice reached the final of the World Cup. They are led by Captain Ladislav Kretchi and a star striker up front in Patrick Schik. The biggest strengths are they are a big team in terms of their height and very, very physical. They have a lot of power from their physicality. They are extremely difficult to beat in the air, both in open play and on set pieces. And they approved this defensive grit in the playoffs of 2026 as they held both Ireland and Denmark, who were heavily favoured to draws before defeating them on penalties. They are a team that excels at direct play and are exceptionally dangerous during set pieces where they try to bring that height advantage into play. Their main man is the is the striker Patrick Sheik. He is the most critical and important goal threat. He scored five goals during qualifying. In midfield they have Captain Thomas Shushek as sorry of West Ham, and he is also a secondary threat behind Sheik, and he has this ability to arrive late into the box, converting loose situations or crosses into goals. They are the dark horse of Group A. To advance, they must navigate a very difficult environment as they are not so great on the road, and they do have to play Mexico in Mexico City. So that's it for the third installment. Next week I'll be looking at England, Germany, Turkey, and Rank Outsiders, uh Bosnia and Herzegovina. So it until then, enjoy your soccer, and uh I'll be back in a week.

SPEAKER_09 1:27:28

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SPEAKER_06 1:29:22

Hi, this is Liam Shannon, Executive Director of Carolina Soccer Club and the author of Sun Tzu Soccer. You're listening to the GP Soccer Podcast with your host, Giovanni Piccini.

SPEAKER_09 1:29:46

And welcome to the final block of the GP Soccer Podcast, known as the American Soccer Revolution, where I uh analyze, throw out, dump, blow up, dissect, rethink, overhaul, scrap all things having to do with American soccer. So, as I noticed you in the opening of the show, a couple of things that kind of jumped to mind here. Probably about pay-to-play. I want to share with you first a piece from Johnny Infantino, FIFA president, love him or hate him, but he's kind of spot on. He's in fact he's very spot on on this particular message. He says, uh, what do we got here? FIFA president. Johnny Infantino believes the pay-to-play system is what is holding the United States back from reaching their potential in soccer. Quote, one of the things which shocked me here in the United States is that children have to pay in order to play soccer. We have to stop this. I'm Italian. I grew up in a little Swiss village in the middle of the mountains. There was a soccer team there which played in the sixth highest division, so it was very small, and they had 23 teams. And this is all organized and privately funded. So the local guy who has a restaurant gives jerseys. The lawyer who has a little bit more money spends on shoes. Privately, you create this movement that makes sure that every kid plays. Well, he must be listening to the GP Soccer podcast because I've been saying this for goodness knows how long. You know, uh the game can be free. It it absolutely can be free by the very uh uh directional way that uh Johnny Fantino notes here. Um I've shared this before with you know with all of you in the past. I grew up not only just playing soccer, I played hockey too. I wasn't a bad hockey hockey player, I was a goaltender. Um but you know, my parents didn't have to pay anything. Uh, you know, they signed me up, you fill out a you know the registration form, and on my jersey was, you know, the local sponsor. Whether it was like I said, the local restaurant, the local convenience store, the local gas station, um, a local uh entrepreneur, you know, they they they donated money so that we we could play hockey without paying a nickel. So generationally we have seen this to work. Now, on a grander scale, not only can we tap into the local entities like I just spoke about, there, but there are big ones too. Look at some of the corporate sponsors that are surrounded the World Cup. Bank of America, Coca-Cola. You know, we have these major, major multimillion, multi-billion dollar operations that I've got to think they might have a nickel or two that they can spare to help fund run soccer in this country so that families don't have to bear the burden uh of forking out you know three, four, five, ten thousand dollars to play a soccer game or play being a soccer league. In any event. Second part here of the American Soccer Revolution. Uh the first episode of this season, I had a gentleman in the name of Jason Herbert, terrific guy. Um he and I are kind of cut from the same cloth when it comes to uh street soccer. And I want to share with you something that came off their um you know their website, and I want this to resonate with all of you. Um talks about Concrete Football Club. I think that's just a great name, Concrete Football Club. Um goes on to say here, Concrete Football Club is actually uh actually about much more than football or soccer, whatever you may call it. It is it is twofold. Our initial mission is to promote and create a street soccer, pick-up soccer culture for everyone in every community as we feel that this is the missing piece in the U.S. soccer culture. Secondly, CFC is also a movement to promote outdoor free play for everyone in general. Many of us as adults grew up playing outside until the street lights came on. Whether it was soccer, wiffle ball, backyard football, pickup basketball, or street hockey, we now understand the many life lessons we learn from these times of free play. In our ever-distracting world, this is also the missing piece for all youth. Concrete Football Club is about going back to what made the game special in the first place. No academies, no politics, no fees, no shortcuts, just the ball, the surface beneath your feet, and the freedom to play. In this community, you, you are the foundation. Every piece of content, every podcast, every drop is rooted in the same idea. Football starts in the street and it belongs to the players. They go on to say over the coming weeks, you'll see our online store opening up, uh, exclusive content for members, promoting organizations currently doing this around the country, and opportunities to shape uh where this goes next. Uh check this folks out. Go back to you know, GP Soccer Podcast, literally episode one of season 14, where uh Jason and I have a conversation about all of this. Um I get the feeling uh we're in the midst of potential movement. I think we might be on the verge of a movement, which would make me super happy because I've been ranting and raving about this for over 25 years. Over 25 years. In uh uh in twenty in uh 25 years, yeah, 25 years ago, I wrote uh an article for Soccer New England about uh the virtues of street soccer. So this is not new for me. This is not new for me. Over 25 years I've been you know extolling the virtues of again of street soccer, but now, finally, I feel that we might be onto something here, and there's a bit of a wave, and we need more people to jump on board and talk about street soccer, talk about getting kids to play, and most importantly, uh getting to a point where it doesn't cost anybody anything. The game is the best teacher. The game is the best teacher. We must uh uh go to great lengths to ensure that um kids are provided these opportunities. So there you have it in the uh American Soccer Revolution, and there you have it for our show today. I made it through. I made it through with my sniffles and all that kind of stuff, but uh here I am. That's our show for today. If you like what you hear, please tell everyone. And remember, those likes matter. They really do. They help me, they help my sponsors, they help the show. So make sure you hit those likes buttons, hit the subscribes. Um certainly, certainly very helpful. You can follow the GP Soccer Podcast all over social media, and new episodes are available every Wednesday morning. Don't forget, don't forget, don't forget, to check out my website at gpsoccerpodcast.com. And if you're interested in advertising on the show, then email me at GP4Soccer, and that's the number four at yahoo.com. This is your host, Giovanni Pacini, and I will catch you later.