Search for Meaning with Brandon Farbstein

In this episode of Search for Meaning, Rabbi Yoshi Zweiback sits down with speaker, author, and advocate Brandon Farbstein for a deeply honest and moving conversation about identity, resilience, and what it truly means to belong.

Born with a rare form of dwarfism, Brandon shares what it was like growing up facing bullying and exclusion — and how those early experiences shaped his sense of self. With candor and insight, he reflects on the inner work it took to move from feeling defined by others’ perceptions to embracing his own voice and purpose.

Together, they explore the difference between visibility and belonging, the emotional reality of resilience, and the responsibility that comes with being seen as an inspiration. Grounded in questions of dignity and human connection, this conversation challenges us to reconsider how we see one another — and ourselves.

This is a conversation about turning pain into purpose, and about discovering strength in the very places we once felt most vulnerable.

https://brandonfarbstein.com/

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

We're all going to be humans and not perfect 100% of the time. But if you could have the mentality that every person has something to learn from and could be how not to be or what you want to aspire to be like.

SPEAKER_02 0:29

I think you're really going to enjoy the conversation. Brandon is a speaker, an author, and an advocate whose story has touched audiences around the world. Brandon was born with a very rare form of dwarfism. And he tells us about what it was like to grow up facing intense bullying and exclusion during his childhood years. And then this sort of epiphany, this moment where he came to realize, in some ways, what his purpose was, why he was here. And that changed his life in very, very profound ways. It's an amazing conversation. Brandon is an inspiring and just wonderful person. I think you're really, really going to enjoy it. Stay tuned and be inspired. Brandon, thank you so much for making time for me. I've been wanting to have this conversation ever since we first met and started to get to know each other. And I'm grateful to you for your time. Listeners might know your name and might know your story very well because you are a public figure on social media. You've published a book. We'll talk about that as well. But for folks who might not know you, love to just begin by hearing a little bit about your upbringing and a little bit of your story. And we can get deeper into some of the things that you really advocate for and lead us in, particularly around inclusion. But I'd love to hear a little bit about your upbringing and your Jewish life as a kid growing up into adulthood.

SPEAKER_00 1:52

So start anywhere you want. Well, thank you so much for having me, Rabbi USHM. So glad we could finally make this happen. I know it's been a long time coming for sure. I was born and raised in Richmond, Virginia. And I, what you may not be able to tell, certainly listening to the podcast, or if you're watching the video, I was born with an extremely rare form of dwarfism. It's called metatropic dysplasia. And it's so rare, in fact, there are only 84 cases reported ever. So not just people that are alive right now, but literally in medical history, to be one of the 84 people, as you can imagine, comes with a life of uncertainty. And it also means in practical terms that I stand under four feet tall. I think uh the exact final height is three foot 10, very solid 3 foot 10, if you ask me. Um and I really spent the first, I would say, majority of my life loathing my difference because all I saw was the negative that came with that. And I didn't realize that it actually was a gift and an opportunity, but it took me being at one of the most painful points that you can imagine. Without going into too much of the specifics, I nearly ended my life when I was 11 years old. And I had to really dig deep, not only to find that own sense of uh inner courage to keep going, but in order to really get the help that I needed as well, I think that was the biggest thing for me. I was just so desperate to not feel all this crushing weight on me all the time. And that's exactly what counseling and therapy was able to do for me. It didn't necessarily change my circumstances at all, but it changed the way that I responded to them because I saw very slowly but surely that I could change the way that I thought. I could change the way that I looked at things. And that's not going to make the pain go away, that's not gonna make the adversity stop, but it changes the experience because you are then in control. And to be a young person in a position like mine and have no sense of control because people were constantly staring at me and pointing or filming and laughing, and that was life-changing. But I think it really took seeing what I actually was capable of in terms of my own inner grit. But I also have to give credit where credit is due. My parents are my superheroes, both my mom and dad. Without them, I would be nothing and nobody. And I am so fortunate that they recognized I was in so much pain that we ended up going to six different therapists in order to finally find one that was not only um kind of good at what they did, but I felt seen and heard by. And it just, it was completely life-changing.

SPEAKER_02 5:06

Was there, as you reflect on that, was there something, a moment that you can go back to where something clicked and you began to understand it in a new way? Often it doesn't work that way, right? It's just very gradual. And then you wake up one day and you realize, wow, I actually feel very differently. But sometimes it does. There's a realization. Was there what was it like for you? Was it more of that very gradual process? Or was there a moment when there was almost an epiphany, an aha moment, and you began to see things differently?

SPEAKER_00 5:38

I think it was both gradual and an epiphany. So the gradual came because once I started to get that sense of personal power into my life because of therapy and because I realized I had way more control than I realized. I think I also started to have a shift in perspective on my own circumstance that it actually wasn't so bad. I had things that I was able to do that other kids weren't. And so I think I was able to start seeing things a little bit differently. But the big shift came when I was 15 and I shared my story for the first time on the TEDx stage. And that was the moment that I realized I am able to connect with people in a way that I had never imagined before. Specifically, that people in circumstances completely opposite of mine, who are, you know, six and a half feet tall, or who are former football players, or this or that, they were coming up to me after my TED talk and they had tears in their eyes. And they said, Thank you so much for sharing your story. Thank you for being so brave. Uh, I was bullied too, et cetera, et cetera. And that was really the moment everything shifted for me because I saw I was put here for a reason, and I'm able to use this very unique circumstance, the cards that I was dealt, to show other people. You don't need to be defined by how you were born, by what happens to you or what you look like. You get to set the definition of who you are. And I think that's what it's all about.

SPEAKER_02 7:21

It's beautiful that sense of purpose and meaning in being able to tell your story and realize that this is part of why I'm here, perhaps, to tell this story and to teach others. And it can shift everything, you know, which is so beautiful. I'm sure there's a lot that people can relate to. And what you shared, obviously, when it comes to the very rare form of dwarfism that you experience, that's not something that many people can relate to personally, because it is so rare. But the the sense of not feeling a part of or being made fun of or ostracized in some way, probably all of us have a moment or two percent. But for you, obviously much more dramatic and much more pervasive, you know, all the time. Um, I'm sure it's painful to go back to those moments, but you know, can you share a little bit about maybe one moment in particular that you sometimes find yourself going back to, or or just a typical kind of moment that you experienced again? I think a lot of listeners can relate. On the other hand, the kinds of things that you experienced are probably more dramatic and more longs, you know, and more pervasive than than most people do. Give us a sense of what some of that was like.

SPEAKER_00 8:36

So I would say I really didn't experience real bullying until middle school. That's when social media came into the fold for me. And it wasn't just exclusion. I think there's a difference between being excluded and then being bullied on top of that. It was being targeted. And that was the first time in my life that I felt truly targeted for looking the way that I do, and more so standing out because I can't hide the fact that I'm the size that I am and whatnot. And so that was kind of the tip of the iceberg because it went from just kind of cruel comments and things that were stupid and immature, and sure they did get under my skin and they did hurt me a little bit, but they weren't anything that drastic. But then I got to high school, and I remember the third day of my freshman year, there was a tweet that went around, and somebody had taken a video of me on my mobility scooter, and it was just like a four or five second video, and it said, first person to punt the midget off the segue gets five dollars. And it would be one thing if it was like some random account that had no followers, no engagement, no likes. What really got to me was seeing that it had over 150 likes and retweets. Most of them were peers at my school that I didn't even know. I was reading their uh Twitter bios and it said DRHS, which was the name of my high school. And I immediately went to the administration, not as a sense of like, oh, I I have no tolerance or I have no um no thick skin to be able to handle this. More so I didn't want to set a precedent because I knew if this was the first week of my freshman year, the next four years were gonna be hell. And unfortunately, the principal decided for whatever reason that it wasn't as serious as it was. And just as I suspected, that snowballed into such worse harassment where I would receive death threats, and the peers at my school created Instagram accounts for the sole purpose of degrading and harassing me, taking videos and images from my TED Talk, from my Instagram, putting Hitler behind me, saying this disgusting creature should have been gassed in the Holocaust. Just the most disgusting vile things. And it was kind of every aspect of my identity that was being targeted. And at the time, I certainly wasn't hiding the fact that I was Jewish, but I also wasn't out and like loud and proud with it. I was one of a handful of Jews at my school. So it's not like it was a very cool thing to be Jewish to begin with. So to add that on top of it, it already was an aspect that they also used to just throw more fuel into the fire. And it got to the point where I couldn't handle it anymore. It was so toxic. The fear was prevailing in every aspect of my life, quite frankly, because I didn't know who the kids were that were sending me these horrible messages saying, if you don't kill yourself, I'm gonna shank you on Thursday in school. I I knew I couldn't stay there. And from that point, I started online school. It was halfway through my junior year, and uh I didn't look back.

SPEAKER_02 12:12

Wow, to hear some of that is just vicariously painful. You know, uh you can imagine nasty, awful things that people might say because we've all had someone say something that was mean and nasty about us. But on that level, that pervasive and that consistent uh just sounds so painful. I'm so sorry to hear that anyone would ever have to go through something like that. And yet, to have gotten to know you a little bit over the last couple of years, I see what an incredibly strong, positive, charismatic person you are. And so I guess one question that I would have is like, how? You know, how did you find the strength and the resilience to say, I'm not going to be defined by the things that people are saying about me? You already touched on a little bit with that sense of purpose that you found in delivering the TED Talk. But some of the things you just described were after you'd given that TED Talk. And so instead of being, you know, our hero, Brandon, in our school, who's out there doing something brave and actually really cool, getting attention for that in a way that hopefully people could get behind and support you. If I were making a Hollywood movie version of it, that'd be what would happen, right? There'd be uh an initial, that that initial kind of um ignorance and hatred and bullying that might come with that. And then eyes opening and wow, and that's exactly what I thought was going to happen too. So, but then you didn't give up and say, okay, I guess, you know, I who knows. Um, and here you are. And you talked about therapy, but in terms of the resilience and the the grit, what are some of the things that you, as you've reflected upon that, help you understand how the heck you did that?

SPEAKER_00 14:00

Well, looking back in that specific time when I had honestly no sense of self-worth, because it's interesting that it was after I'd given the TED Talk and I I had already found this sense of mission and purpose, yet all I wanted was the acceptance of my peers. And it's so interesting that the outside world could praise me and just like you said, get behind my story and treat me like, wow, you're doing such amazing work. Thank you for being so brave. And then going into school every day. It was like being in hell because I felt like I had nobody there that saw me for me. And maybe there were some silent people that felt like they they wanted to stick up, but nobody really did. And I think what really got me through was having a sense of action that I could get behind, not just purpose, but really what my parents and I decided to do after seeing so many failures within the school administration, but also the police department when we went to them with very real threats that I'd gotten that had a time, a place, a specific means of uh action, et cetera, et cetera. And yet every single time it didn't meet the specific law to constitute it as being illegal. And it was protected above freedom of speech, and nothing else mattered. So really, what my family and I decided to do, we didn't accept that for an answer. And we testified in front of the General Assembly, the Virginia state lawmakers. And by my 18th birthday, got two pieces of legislation passed. One on bullying prevention. And then the other that I'm especially proud of requires empathy and social emotional learning curriculum to be taught at every single grade level, starting in kindergarten, ending senior year, across all public schools in Virginia. It's one of those things that I'm not naive. I know that's not going to end bullying. It's not going to put a stop to hatred. But if it could equip young people with the tools and the personal power that they need to be able to go throughout life, knowing that their words matter, their actions have meaning, I think that's a game changer. And I know it for the life that I've lived and the experience of there was a complete lack of empathy. If my peers had even an ounce of that, of knowing that I was on the other side of that screen and that I would be absorbing the words that they were saying that they thought were anonymous or whatever, I think that would have really changed a lot of the outcomes that I experienced. And so now that I get to be on the other side of that and say empathy really is the foundation of everything. It's the foundation of connection and it's not some foreign concept, something that we could equip every single young person with.

SPEAKER_02 16:57

When were those laws passed?

SPEAKER_00 16:58

In 2016 and 2017. So I know the social emotional learning law is still in uh in practice in Virginia, which is great.

SPEAKER_02 17:07

So as you were sharing that, I was wondering how many times someone might have reached out to you in the last 10 years, nine years, and shared a story about the way that some of these interventions might have made a difference, or just about the way your story makes a difference. Because obviously, at the heart of empathy is really being able to understand the other more deeply, have curiosity about the other, open yourself to that person's story. Totally. And also in some way, imagine what would it be like to be in his shoes? What would it be like to experience what he's experiencing? And so I wonder if there's a story you could share of somebody who shared that story with you.

SPEAKER_00 17:50

The most powerful realization for me came at probably 18 years old. This is when I had already finished high school, and I was in a period of doing this full time and realizing I didn't have to wait until I got my college degree. I already had the ability to do it. And I was speaking all across the country at schools. And I spoke at high school in North Carolina, and a student reached out to me on Instagram afterwards and said, I've been contemplating ending my life for the last few months and hearing your story gives me the light that I needed. And I think that was the moment that I realized this is not just something that is inspiring people. I'm giving a sense of hope. And I'm giving a sense of if he could do it, not only with the circumstances that I'm dealing with, but if I can choose to live the life that I'm living, I think that's universal as well. Because you don't necessarily need to relate to being under four feet tall. You don't need to relate to having a rare medical condition, but I bet you could relate to feeling invisible. I bet you could relate to feeling unworthy. And it's really about how we flip the script and the voice that is going on inside of our head 24-7. We have to learn to make that something that's empowering instead of constantly tearing us down. And I think I had to learn that firsthand from being in the darkest place that you could imagine to then being where I'm at now. I don't think I've transformed anything. I think I've been able to completely reshift and reframe a lot of the things that I've been through. And that's been the game changer.

SPEAKER_02 19:36

I'm wondering about, in terms of your experience as someone whose Jewish identity is really core and increasingly so, how that might have reflected itself in the kinds of outreach you've gotten from others. So, you know, from October 7th, 2023 to today, I'm sure you've had other Jews out there in the world who've reached out and said, Brandon, you know, you're an inspiration for being so proudly Jewish and outspoken about your Judaism, especially at a time when Jews are under attack, not just online, but physically, literally in the material world too. And then to bring all that vulnerability out and say, not only am I going to be a spokesperson for other people who might not be included because of other differences that they might experience, but then there's this identity piece that is about my religious identity, my ethnic identity, my people that I'm a part of. Maybe you could share a little bit about the way others have reached out to you post-October 7th in terms of Jewish identity.

SPEAKER_00 20:43

Yeah, and this is a newer aspect for me. I'll give just a little bit of context. I consider myself an October 7th Jew, a post-10-7 Jew, where again, I certainly was not hiding anything. It was very prevalent that I had a bar mitzvah, I went to Hebrew school, I went to synagogue a lot of Friday nights, et cetera, et cetera. Um, so I did nothing to hide it, but I also was not embracing my Judaism. I didn't feel a sense of connection, especially in my adult life to it. And it was going to Israel for the first time on birthright in July of 2023. So three months before everything shifted. And that really gave me a huge sense of the foundation and I think the backbone to say I've actually been there. It's not at a genocidal apartheid, all the crazy things that people wanted to say and still do say, unfortunately. Um and really that has changed so much of my life. That sense of identity, I didn't realize what I was missing. And I think a lot of what I was still holding on to was that childhood sense of, oh, I just Want to not add another layer. I don't want to add another aspect of a target on my back. But I'm in the position of I'm going to be targeted either way. And I might as well embrace it. I might as well do something with it. And that's that's really what I've been focused on. So now that I get to be a beacon of light for Jews all over the world, whatever aspect of my story they could relate to, I am just really glad that I get to help equip people that their voice matters to. And no matter who they are or how they come to the table, there's something to contribute. And I think that's more prevalent now more than ever, to be able to see that we're all needed in this world, especially for the people around us.

SPEAKER_02 22:44

One thought about the empathy conversation that we had a little bit earlier was a beautiful interpretation of a text that's at the very heart of the Torah, right in the middle of the book of Leviticus, one of the best known passages in the entire Hebrew Bible. I am God. And one of the commentators suggests that the true way that we can love another person is to understand what we have in common, kamocha. You know, when you understand that your neighbor is like you in certain fundamental ways that are connected to what it means to be part of God's creation, what it means to be a human being, some of those fundamental human needs, fundamental human desires, and certainly in some ways the highest aspiration to live a life of purpose and to do something meaningful with our lives. Then when we understand that other people in some ways are the exact same in that regard, then wow, we can really experience sympathy in a powerful way. And also look beyond differences of height and skin color or ethnic background and really get at the core of the same.

SPEAKER_00 23:57

It's crazy to realize that we're actually more alike than we are different. And not even from a cliche trying to sound all inspirational standpoint. We genuinely are. And it doesn't matter that we have completely different experiences, completely different lives that we've lived as human beings. If you look at the core needs, the core wants, what we all kind of aspire to do, of course it's different. Of course, it's gonna have slightly different angles and colors and all these things. But I just think that's so powerful. And that changes the way that you go about in the world too, because you're curious and you're open. We're all gonna be humans and not perfect 100% of the time. But if you could have the mentality that every person has something to learn from and could be how not to be, or how what you want to aspire to be like. But I just think that's so impactful.

SPEAKER_02 24:56

And as you were saying that, I was thinking of another text that uh I think it's from Pierkay Vot in the Mishnah that says that you know, you should never belittle another person because essentially every person has his or her hour where their reason for existing will come into focus and we'll realize, like, oh, we really needed Brandon. And all those times that we didn't see him, we put him down, we belittled him, we were unaware that he's incredibly important, you know, in the in the grandest sense, of course, but also in this more granular sense, we needed him for this one thing. Right. Had we been a little bit more aware of that, we could have treated him with more respect and cavot all along the way. But that that every person, you you approach every person, even someone who's hateful, even someone who's ugly in their inner sense. That's the hardest part. Yeah, I want to find like there must be a reason. This person's in the world. They must have some good thing to do. The thing I like about that too is that even if we're wrong, like let's say we misjudged and this person actually has no redeeming qualities whatsoever, I would rather live my life imagining that they did, because I think it ennobles us. And then if we were proven wrong, we could say, okay, I gave that person the benefit of the doubt. Right. And maybe it caused some pain to me. And, you know, God forbid it was uh something that was some type of uh fatal mistake. But most cases it won't be a fatal mistake in that sense. It's going to just be something that that hurts a bit. I wanted to ask about inclusion in the Jewish world. So, as someone who grew up Jewishly, you know, celebrated becoming bar mitzvah, later a birthright trip, and then post-October 7th, 2023, something is sparked in you that's very, very powerful, and you devote energy into that particular part of your identity. What are some things that have delighted you about inclusion in the Jewish world and Jewish spaces, whether it's synagogues or other spaces? And what are some things where you feel like, ooh, we still have a long way to go? And of course, it can include things like with just accessibility. How do I get in and out of spaces? And how could we be more sensitive and do a better job of that? And then it's also about being seen, you know, when you come to a service, when you show up at a place, do people see you as a human being and a full member of a community, or do they think of you as someone who has a disability, someone who we we might not see at all? So love to hear about some of the things that have been positive and uplifting, and maybe some areas that you think we can grow as a community.

SPEAKER_00 27:32

My experience with inclusion in the Jewish community specifically, really, I would say starts with my childhood. One of the earliest memories that I have is being in Chabad preschool. And I was four years old when I had my first major set of leg surgeries, where they basically had to break the bones in both of my legs in order to put metal hardware in it to straighten them. And I remember being so bummed to miss preschool. But when I was welcomed back, I was treated like I got such a hero's welcome. And I was treated like there was nothing wrong with me. And I don't know, I I remember that was a big moment to realize, huh? I'm really glad to be a part of a community that can support me and have my back. And I realized that that's what the Jewish community was. But it was really disconnected for me as I became older and older. I did DBYO, I really enjoyed that. But then in my adult, like my young adult years, I had no sense of connection to the Jewish community. And the more that I started getting involved in things, I saw that there was still such a gap, even now, and with things that need to be addressed when it comes to disability and accessibility. And me even being in a space or being there sends a message sometimes because people aren't necessarily expecting to see or hear from somebody, quote, like me. And I lean into that. I like to defy expectations and defy what people's preconceived notions are. But I really think what the gap that exists today still is, that we are trying to solve something where we're attempting to come up with the answers, the answers that are already out there for people that are living with disabilities. And we need to do a better job as a whole, as the just Jewish people, at making sure that anyone who might have diverse needs is not an afterthought. We're great at responding, we're great at being reactive, we're not so great at being proactive. And I think it's sometimes as easy as bringing somebody into the fold to say, what can I do to make this accessible for you? What can I do to make this more approachable for you? I think it really is something that often doing these mental gymnastics in our head, we think, what is the right term? What is the right word? How do I approach this person? Oftentimes, while that's really important, and I'm not negating any of that. What we have to do is ask what the person's name is and say, Hi, I just wanted to introduce myself. Instead of all of these mental gymnastics or the hoops that we try and jump through in our head.

SPEAKER_02 30:51

In some ways, it makes it so simple and approachable. Just like be a mensch. If you see someone, hello, welcome, you know. Uh, can I help you find the sanctuary or whatever it is?

SPEAKER_00 31:04

That's what I think is empowering to a lot of people too, because it's like you don't need to change everything. All you need to do is be a little bit more empathetic. And it's not just being empathetic to somebody else, it's being empathetic to yourself. Because I've realized when I walk into a room, especially when there aren't any other disabled folks, I can make people feel uncomfortable because they don't know how to approach me. They don't know how to talk to me, they don't know whether they should bend down, this and that. Again, things that are legitimate concerns, and I can absolutely understand why somebody wants to be respectful and they want to approach it in the right way. But what I find is a lot of instances, they don't approach me at all. And I find that so unfortunate because I just happen to be a little closer to the ground. I'm as much of a regular person as you or the next Joe over there. And so I think as much as I can normalize disability, more so just normalize difference. Because quite frankly, that is something we all can relate to, whether you realize it or not. We all have something that makes us unique. And I bet we all have something that we wish we could change about ourselves, something that we're insecure about, that we don't have a lot of confidence in, etc. And that's also one of those things that just humanizes us. And I think it's very humbling to realize that we're also one moment away from becoming disabled, from getting into an accident, from having something happen to us, becoming ill and having that change the course of our life. And so to deny something that is a part of humanity, specifically disability, I think is so sad, but it's more so it's doing a disservice to the people, of course, but it's also a disservice to yourself because you're denying something that is right in front of you.

SPEAKER_02 33:10

It's so powerful and again, in some ways, so simple and yet obviously not so easy, because otherwise we'd all do a much better job of that. I'm wondering what you've experienced in, you know, since that TED talk to today, inspiring many people and you know, many thousands upon thousands of people, because those things can be seen across the world. Obviously, it's giving you a sense of meaning and purpose. And when you talked about what kind of clicked in you that helped you move from a place of real darkness to a place of light, uh, but sometimes it can be a burden and uh feel like a responsibility. Does it ever feel that way to you? That sense of like I'm I'm not just Brandon, this person who is a person like everybody else is a person, but I'm also an inspiration, I am a symbol, and and especially because the type of dwarfism that you experience is is so rare, then you're also, you know, in this little tiny subset, you know, you become a spokesperson for that. It's like that wasn't really what I was I was going for, you know. So to what extent does it feel sometimes like uh like a burden and and how do you manage it if it if so?

SPEAKER_00 34:25

I appreciate you asking this. I think when I was younger, and especially as I started getting more attention for my story as a teenager, it felt like a burden because I had people coming to me in situations where they were also struggling or they were experiencing their own mental health issues or depression or anything that that again they could relate to with my story, they would come to me for answers. And I felt like I had that responsibility that I had to be that person for every single person that that came to me. And it really got to me to the point that I wanted to step away from social media, but I realized I have to find a way to make this work. I have to find a way to not carry that burden because this is what I'm meant to be doing. This is why God put me here, and I need to be able to sustainably fulfill this mission. And so I think now what it's not really a burden as much as it is I want so desperately sometimes to just be Brandon and to not be somebody that is the inspiration, the like you said, the expert, etc. etc. I want to be able to go to Trader Joe's and reach into the frozen section to get my gnocchi and not have somebody approach me saying, it's so inspiring that you get to go out on your own. And listen, of course, I think most people mean well and they they want to share kindness, but that doesn't always come across in the proper ways. And so I I'm at a point where I'm certainly so insanely grateful to be me and to be in the position that I'm in. But I would be lying if I said I didn't have moments that I just wish I could kind of press pause in terms of being in this body, and I wish I could experience life where I wasn't the center of it all. But I also I think those moments are so rare that I realize the gift of what this allows me to do and the impact that I've been able to have with it, that overshadows it all. So I I want to make both of that very apparent because I'm not some perfect human being that has been able to completely master all of my adversity and all of my troubles and whatnot. I think my entire life is gonna be navigating what it means to be in a world not built for me and seeking answers that aren't necessarily out there. But at the same time, realizing that it is so much about how I decide to live my life and being in the driver's seat of the journey that I get to have. And in a lot of ways, if that means that other people need some time in order to process somebody that is, you know, under four feet tall driving a car or living by himself or whatever it is, I'll let them process it, but it has nothing to do with me. It has everything to do with them.

SPEAKER_02 37:43

Brandon, that's so beautiful. Often when I have the privilege of interviewing people, I ask them, you know, what gives your life meaning? Help us understand that. But everything we've spoken about, you've been really answering that question. One thing that I was reflecting on in your last comment was it is a text from the book of Samuel, which you've probably studied along the way, where when the prophet Samuel is instructed to go and anoint a new king, and he's told that the king is one of the sons of Yeshai, Jesse. And when Samuel comes and sees the sons of Jesse, one of the sons, the firstborn, is the tallest. And Samuel assumes that that's the one because he's the tallest. And so, because of his stature, he's obviously the king, the next king. And it turns out that it's the smallest of the brothers, David. God says to Samuel in the book of Samuel, according to the text itself, you see the outside. You see things like that. That's not how I look at the world. And when I imagine the author of that text, you know, different listeners might see it in different ways, but I see those texts as human texts aspiring to try to understand what is it that God wants of us in the world?

SPEAKER_01 38:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:58

Um, as opposed to a, you know, a text that God actually wrote. But from my perspective, as someone who sees it as that human document, what is the author of the book of Samuel pointing towards so much of what we've been talking about today, so much of what you shared with us? It's, you know, can you be seen? And we want people to be seen, and to be seen for their essential selves, who they really are, as opposed to the shell of who we are, which is, you know, the the the shape we're in, the body, the skin color, all those other kinds of things.

SPEAKER_00 39:31

But also it's like it's career, it's achievement, it's all these other things that we often hide behind as well. That uh when all is said and done, that's not who we are. Right. And that's not what really matters in life.

SPEAKER_02 39:45

Right. And I guess to echo, you know, part of our conversation about what it means to sort of be burdened with and also privileged with that kind of leadership role of being a symbol and a role model and an inspiration and all those other kinds of things. That's also not who you are in your essential self, right? That you you pointed to that and said, I just want to be branded. So there's there's a a brandedness to you that uh transcends all of those other things. Thank you for your time. Any comments that you want to leave us with or any other experiences you want to share before we close?

SPEAKER_00 40:17

I would love to stay connected. And I get to uh do probably the coolest job that I could envision, which is traveling the world and sharing my story with audiences from students to thousands of adults at a time and everywhere in between. So would love to stay connected. And if there's ever any value that I could add to your listeners, I would certainly uh be glad to do so. I'm on Instagram the most. It's at Farbstein, F-A-R-B, S-T-E-I-N, my last name. I'm also on Facebook at Brandon Farbstein and LinkedIn under my name. And then my website is brandonfarbstein.com.

SPEAKER_02 40:59

We'll put all those things in the episode notes. Brandon, thank you so much. And I hope to see lots more of you here at Stephenwise Temple. And I'm really just grateful to you for your time and for the wisdom that you share with us. The story uh that is a personal one, but in some ways obviously transcends the experience of any one human being because it is so deeply connected to our human experience itself. Thank you, Brandon. This was a lot of fun, Rafayoshi. Thank you. Well, that's our episode. Thanks for listening to Search for Meaning. If you enjoyed today's conversation, please like, subscribe, and leave a review. It really helps others discover the podcast. And consider sharing Search for Meaning with a friend. They might appreciate the insights and inspiration found here. Special thanks to Josh Sterling, our editor, Amy Shelby, our producer, Raz Husseini, our production coordinator, and Mara Friedman, our social media manager. Our theme song was composed by David Cates and myself and features a vocal by cantor Josh Goldberg. Stay healthy, stay hopeful, and stay tuned.