{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":1.176,"endTime":3.727,"body":"You're listening to Podcasting Made Simple."},{"startTime":4.928,"endTime":14.053,"body":"My aha moment of my whole career came like really on just some idle Tuesday when I"},{"startTime":4.928,"endTime":14.053,"body":"completely didn't expect it."},{"startTime":14.254,"endTime":20.327,"body":"It was something that came out of the blue and when it happened, I made like a mental"},{"startTime":14.254,"endTime":20.327,"body":"footnote about it."},{"startTime":20.327,"endTime":21.598,"body":"I thought, that's interesting."},{"startTime":21.598,"endTime":25.681,"body":"You know, it just kind of followed it away, but it really didn't stand out to me as a big"},{"startTime":21.598,"endTime":25.681,"body":"deal."},{"startTime":25.681,"endTime":28.382,"body":"It's only been over the years."},{"startTime":28.382,"endTime":35.047,"body":"As I thought about it more and more, realized, wow, what a moment that was and how it"},{"startTime":28.382,"endTime":35.047,"body":"actually changed."},{"startTime":35.047,"endTime":44.154,"body":"That moment on reflection changed the way I've approached my entire career the rest of the"},{"startTime":35.047,"endTime":44.154,"body":"way and probably my personality."},{"startTime":44.315,"endTime":46.567,"body":"I started as a broadcast journalist."},{"startTime":46.567,"endTime":52.652,"body":"started in radio, moved into TV because radio doesn't pay and spent 15 years in broadcast"},{"startTime":46.567,"endTime":52.652,"body":"journalism."},{"startTime":52.652,"endTime":57.848,"body":"So that's where I learned how to broadcast, learned how to speak and just reach that point"},{"startTime":52.652,"endTime":57.848,"body":"that a lot of"},{"startTime":57.848,"endTime":64.353,"body":"journalists reach in their life where they cross over, it's called crossing over to the"},{"startTime":57.848,"endTime":64.353,"body":"dark side, joined corporate communications."},{"startTime":64.353,"endTime":69.046,"body":"And in my case, I joined a big electricity utility company."},{"startTime":69.046,"endTime":79.614,"body":"And it was because they knew that they were facing a situation for the next year or so"},{"startTime":69.046,"endTime":79.614,"body":"where as deregulation of electricity was taking place in that jurisdiction, they knew"},{"startTime":79.614,"endTime":81.755,"body":"there were going to be a lot of media stories."},{"startTime":81.755,"endTime":84.177,"body":"They knew that there would be some negativity to them."},{"startTime":84.177,"endTime":85.858,"body":"needed a media person."},{"startTime":85.944,"endTime":86.814,"body":"to handle that."},{"startTime":86.814,"endTime":92.617,"body":"was the PR MO at the time that you hired a PR person to do those interviews."},{"startTime":92.617,"endTime":94.618,"body":"So that's kind of how I started."},{"startTime":94.618,"endTime":103.141,"body":"And my job was, it started with me doing these interviews just by phone mainly, or the"},{"startTime":94.618,"endTime":103.141,"body":"ones that were in the main city, I'd do them there in the city."},{"startTime":103.141,"endTime":110.644,"body":"But our jurisdiction was actually about two million people across a jurisdiction roughly"},{"startTime":103.141,"endTime":110.644,"body":"the size of Texas."},{"startTime":110.644,"endTime":112.785,"body":"So a lot of geography."},{"startTime":112.825,"endTime":115.366,"body":"And it morphed into, would travel."},{"startTime":115.522,"endTime":126.065,"body":"from community to community meeting with the newspaper editors and publishers, because at"},{"startTime":115.522,"endTime":126.065,"body":"the time, and I'm dating myself, newspaper was really powerful."},{"startTime":126.225,"endTime":137.048,"body":"So I did those interviews and that morphed into, I had to meet with the local government"},{"startTime":126.225,"endTime":137.048,"body":"representatives because when people are angry about anything, in this case, their"},{"startTime":137.048,"endTime":142.129,"body":"electricity bill, they call their local government rep and they tell them off."},{"startTime":142.129,"endTime":144.95,"body":"And when they tell that local government rep off,"},{"startTime":145.122,"endTime":152.224,"body":"The local government rep either calls you and tells you off as the company or more likely"},{"startTime":145.122,"endTime":152.224,"body":"they complain in the media about you."},{"startTime":152.224,"endTime":159.166,"body":"So my job morphed into, would meet with those local government reps and try to explain"},{"startTime":152.224,"endTime":159.166,"body":"this whole situation to them."},{"startTime":159.346,"endTime":167.728,"body":"And that morphed into, well, if you're so good at explaining it, why don't you meet with"},{"startTime":159.346,"endTime":167.728,"body":"the, some of my constituents, the ones that are giving me the most grief meet with them"},{"startTime":167.828,"endTime":172.109,"body":"one to one, and you try to explain the situation to them and make somebody happy."},{"startTime":172.109,"endTime":174.67,"body":"So that was my job for two years was just."},{"startTime":174.67,"endTime":184.018,"body":"traveling around that big area, meeting one-to-one with people, doing media interviews,"},{"startTime":174.67,"endTime":184.018,"body":"meeting with government representatives and talking about what the situation was with the"},{"startTime":184.018,"endTime":188.921,"body":"electricity industry and why bills were somewhat higher."},{"startTime":189.102,"endTime":190.95,"body":"And the aha moment came."},{"startTime":190.95,"endTime":193.064,"body":"I was meeting with a lady."},{"startTime":193.726,"endTime":195.016,"body":"She must have been in her 70s."},{"startTime":195.016,"endTime":198.028,"body":"She was a pensioner and her bills were higher."},{"startTime":198.389,"endTime":202.443,"body":"And the more I looked at her bill, there was nothing wrong with the bill."},{"startTime":202.443,"endTime":203.934,"body":"She was using more electricity."},{"startTime":203.934,"endTime":204.5,"body":"I think"},{"startTime":204.5,"endTime":211.365,"body":"One of her grown children had moved back home and had started a welding operation, but I"},{"startTime":204.5,"endTime":211.365,"body":"was never really able to drill down to that."},{"startTime":211.365,"endTime":213.576,"body":"she, had question after question."},{"startTime":213.576,"endTime":216.178,"body":"She was nice, but you know, she was on a pension."},{"startTime":216.178,"endTime":219.35,"body":"So she was upset and she had question after question."},{"startTime":219.35,"endTime":226.632,"body":"And in this particular meeting, for some reason at the end of the meeting, thought, wow,"},{"startTime":219.35,"endTime":226.632,"body":"inside, thought I did a really good job there."},{"startTime":226.632,"endTime":228.61,"body":"I stuck to all my key messages."},{"startTime":228.61,"endTime":231.699,"body":"I really felt the answers, the way I rolled them out."},{"startTime":231.699,"endTime":233.822,"body":"They were, they were thoughtful."},{"startTime":233.822,"endTime":236.223,"body":"They had lots of great information in them."},{"startTime":236.223,"endTime":239.525,"body":"I felt like a champ at the end of that meeting."},{"startTime":239.745,"endTime":244.498,"body":"And she got up to leave and the next person who was coming in, I could overhear them."},{"startTime":244.498,"endTime":246.419,"body":"were around the corner."},{"startTime":246.419,"endTime":247.93,"body":"I couldn't see them, but I could hear them."},{"startTime":247.93,"endTime":250.331,"body":"He said to her, how did it go?"},{"startTime":250.392,"endTime":254.333,"body":"And she said, that guy's got answers for everything."},{"startTime":254.474,"endTime":257.896,"body":"I was so deflated when I heard her say that."},{"startTime":257.896,"endTime":260.457,"body":"Nice lady, but I mean,"},{"startTime":260.514,"endTime":261.334,"body":"facts were facts."},{"startTime":261.334,"endTime":266.017,"body":"What I thought was a very successful meeting, I had lost."},{"startTime":266.057,"endTime":267.288,"body":"I'd lost it badly."},{"startTime":267.288,"endTime":270.379,"body":"And I found that away as a mental note."},{"startTime":270.379,"endTime":280.435,"body":"But the more I thought about that, and as the years progressed and my career has always"},{"startTime":270.379,"endTime":280.435,"body":"been spent in professional communications, I've always loved dissecting how human beings"},{"startTime":280.435,"endTime":282.846,"body":"interact and communicate with one another."},{"startTime":283.286,"endTime":290.23,"body":"What I began to realize piece by piece was what I lost in that discussion."},{"startTime":290.454,"endTime":292.014,"body":"was the narrative."},{"startTime":292.916,"endTime":294.077,"body":"I had the answers."},{"startTime":294.077,"endTime":295.328,"body":"I answered well."},{"startTime":295.328,"endTime":296.839,"body":"I answered technically well."},{"startTime":296.839,"endTime":302.404,"body":"I think I was empathetic in the way I provided those answers, but I lost the narrative."},{"startTime":302.404,"endTime":304.706,"body":"When she was asked, what did he say?"},{"startTime":304.706,"endTime":306.667,"body":"Or in this case, how did it go?"},{"startTime":307.014,"endTime":310.05,"body":"The one sentence response was negative."},{"startTime":310.05,"endTime":312.311,"body":"That guy's got answers for everything."},{"startTime":313.153,"endTime":314.914,"body":"And I thought about that and thought about it."},{"startTime":314.914,"endTime":320.188,"body":"And as I progressed in my career, I came to realize that I missed a giant opportunity"},{"startTime":314.914,"endTime":320.188,"body":"there."},{"startTime":320.204,"endTime":324.356,"body":"by missing the narrative, is really the key piece."},{"startTime":324.356,"endTime":336.893,"body":"Any presentation you ever give, any podcast interview you ever do, any media interview you"},{"startTime":324.356,"endTime":336.893,"body":"ever do, any discussion you actually ever have with anyone, there is an opportunity to"},{"startTime":336.893,"endTime":337.754,"body":"place a narrative."},{"startTime":337.754,"endTime":340.786,"body":"Now in most day-to-day discussions, I don't even want to place a narrative."},{"startTime":340.786,"endTime":342.837,"body":"I just really want to ask someone how they're doing."},{"startTime":342.837,"endTime":348.02,"body":"And the narrative, I suppose, is I'm your friend, I'm a colleague, and I want to get along"},{"startTime":342.837,"endTime":348.02,"body":"with you."},{"startTime":348.02,"endTime":349.19,"body":"That's the narrative."},{"startTime":349.474,"endTime":361.014,"body":"But in a business transaction, like a podcast interview, like a media interview or"},{"startTime":349.474,"endTime":361.014,"body":"presentation like this, there is a necessity to introduce a narrative."},{"startTime":361.014,"endTime":363.046,"body":"What is it you want people to say?"},{"startTime":363.046,"endTime":371.053,"body":"That one line, that one sentence, what is it you want them to say at the end of your"},{"startTime":363.046,"endTime":371.053,"body":"discussion or presentation?"},{"startTime":371.053,"endTime":372.674,"body":"There's an opportunity."},{"startTime":372.674,"endTime":377.898,"body":"And to make the most of that opportunity, you definitely need to prepare."},{"startTime":378.06,"endTime":379.771,"body":"You can't just go in and wing it."},{"startTime":379.771,"endTime":387.175,"body":"And I love people that whether it's a podcast interview or any kind of interview that you"},{"startTime":379.771,"endTime":387.175,"body":"hear some people say, I'm just going to, it's about me."},{"startTime":387.175,"endTime":388.286,"body":"So I'm just going to be me."},{"startTime":388.286,"endTime":389.316,"body":"I'm just going to be myself."},{"startTime":389.316,"endTime":390.687,"body":"I don't have to remember what I said."},{"startTime":390.687,"endTime":393.769,"body":"That's a huge missed opportunity there."},{"startTime":393.769,"endTime":397.781,"body":"I'm sure you are wonderful and you're terrific and you can, you can talk."},{"startTime":397.781,"endTime":406.466,"body":"You can fly by the seat of your pants, but you've missed an opportunity to place a lasting"},{"startTime":397.781,"endTime":406.466,"body":"narrative to do this."},{"startTime":406.626,"endTime":414.172,"body":"And the tool that I want to introduce to you for this, for podcast interviews and how to"},{"startTime":406.626,"endTime":414.172,"body":"be a great guest is a message map."},{"startTime":414.172,"endTime":422.097,"body":"The first step in developing a message map is good old examination of what your audiences"},{"startTime":414.172,"endTime":422.097,"body":"are."},{"startTime":422.097,"endTime":425.259,"body":"Who are the key audiences that you want to reach?"},{"startTime":425.259,"endTime":429.062,"body":"And a little hint, it is never general public ever."},{"startTime":429.062,"endTime":430.273,"body":"That's way too big."},{"startTime":430.273,"endTime":431.834,"body":"You have to niche down your audience."},{"startTime":431.834,"endTime":434.586,"body":"It could be, I want to reach"},{"startTime":434.742,"endTime":448.027,"body":"single moms, could be, want to reach men who feel they need to up their game and in doing"},{"startTime":434.742,"endTime":448.027,"body":"more work at home, anything, whatever your niche audience is, then what are the messages"},{"startTime":448.028,"endTime":452.209,"body":"that they expect, want or need to hear from you?"},{"startTime":452.282,"endTime":458.192,"body":"Then what are your goals or the messages that you want to get to them?"},{"startTime":458.192,"endTime":460.852,"body":"Hopefully they're the same thing, but they may not be."},{"startTime":460.873,"endTime":464.398,"body":"People may be demanding you talk about XYZ."},{"startTime":464.398,"endTime":467.639,"body":"whereas you'd really rather talk about ABC."},{"startTime":467.639,"endTime":472.54,"body":"And a key message is the blend of those two things."},{"startTime":472.72,"endTime":480.242,"body":"If all you do is talk about ABC, and that's not what people want to hear, no one's"},{"startTime":472.72,"endTime":480.242,"body":"listening."},{"startTime":480.402,"endTime":484.383,"body":"They haven't even heard you because they're waiting for you to talk about XYZ."},{"startTime":484.563,"endTime":492.936,"body":"And conversely, if all you talk about is XYZ, you've missed the opportunity because you"},{"startTime":484.563,"endTime":492.936,"body":"really need people to understand ABC."},{"startTime":492.936,"endTime":494.316,"body":"A key message"},{"startTime":494.318,"endTime":497.538,"body":"is your goals plus their interests."},{"startTime":497.538,"endTime":498.978,"body":"It's as simple as that."},{"startTime":498.978,"endTime":502.278,"body":"And a message map is this structure."},{"startTime":502.278,"endTime":506.358,"body":"At the top of the message map is a narrative."},{"startTime":506.458,"endTime":507.798,"body":"What is the feeling?"},{"startTime":507.798,"endTime":511.158,"body":"What is the one sentence response that you want?"},{"startTime":511.158,"endTime":518.058,"body":"When that lady left the room and the next person coming in said to her, how did it go?"},{"startTime":518.638,"endTime":521.218,"body":"What was it I wanted her to say?"},{"startTime":521.218,"endTime":523.126,"body":"What was the narrative?"},{"startTime":523.192,"endTime":528.895,"body":"Well, probably what I really wanted her to say was, it's really complicated."},{"startTime":528.895,"endTime":534.588,"body":"I think everyone's doing the best they can, but it is complicated and I'm struggling to"},{"startTime":528.895,"endTime":534.588,"body":"pay my bills."},{"startTime":534.968,"endTime":537.79,"body":"In all honesty, that's probably the best I could hope for."},{"startTime":537.79,"endTime":541.672,"body":"So my entire discussion should have been focused on that output."},{"startTime":541.672,"endTime":544.183,"body":"So outline what the narrative it is that you want."},{"startTime":544.183,"endTime":547.155,"body":"And it's almost always emotionally based."},{"startTime":547.155,"endTime":550.717,"body":"Then underneath that are three key messages."},{"startTime":550.717,"endTime":553.122,"body":"Sentence one, sentence two,"},{"startTime":553.122,"endTime":554.583,"body":"Sentence 3."},{"startTime":554.583,"endTime":557.726,"body":"Each of these three supports the narrative."},{"startTime":558.047,"endTime":562.55,"body":"And if you find you have a key message, you'd really want to talk about this."},{"startTime":562.931,"endTime":567.125,"body":"But there's no way to fit that in to support the narrative."},{"startTime":567.125,"endTime":571.819,"body":"You either change your narrative or you don't use that key message."},{"startTime":571.819,"endTime":574.302,"body":"It's as simple as that to stay on track."},{"startTime":574.302,"endTime":577.164,"body":"So outline what your three key messages are."},{"startTime":577.164,"endTime":579.616,"body":"And one of mine in that case could have been"},{"startTime":579.96,"endTime":589.005,"body":"how incredibly complicated electricity bills always have been and with a restructured or"},{"startTime":579.96,"endTime":589.005,"body":"deregulated system have now become, because they were."},{"startTime":589.005,"endTime":592.276,"body":"There's so many different numbers, so many different charges."},{"startTime":592.937,"endTime":598.06,"body":"Underneath each key message are supporting facts."},{"startTime":598.06,"endTime":609.766,"body":"And this is where if you've got statistics or clever sound bites or clever quotes, famous"},{"startTime":598.06,"endTime":609.766,"body":"quotes, anything like that, use those underneath to support"},{"startTime":610.112,"endTime":611.623,"body":"each key message."},{"startTime":611.623,"endTime":616.358,"body":"So the structure you've got is kind of like a pyramid at the very pointy top end."},{"startTime":616.358,"endTime":618.929,"body":"The most important part is the narrative."},{"startTime":619.09,"endTime":625.956,"body":"Then just beneath that, the second tier is three key messages and they all support the"},{"startTime":619.09,"endTime":625.956,"body":"very top."},{"startTime":625.956,"endTime":629.82,"body":"Then underneath each of those is three key messages."},{"startTime":629.82,"endTime":637.446,"body":"To do this properly, it's easy to throw ideas into a message map and you have several"},{"startTime":629.82,"endTime":637.446,"body":"sentences."},{"startTime":637.612,"endTime":641.404,"body":"work with clients and we always start with two or three sentences in the narrative."},{"startTime":641.404,"endTime":653.401,"body":"It's incredibly hard to come down to a precious few words that you want in your narrative,"},{"startTime":641.404,"endTime":653.401,"body":"but you can work for days, weeks to get to that point, but crunch it down so that each of"},{"startTime":653.401,"endTime":658.354,"body":"these is really only a few words and it takes a lot of time."},{"startTime":658.354,"endTime":666.418,"body":"If it comes to you quickly, odds are you've either spent a lot of time on it already or"},{"startTime":658.354,"endTime":666.418,"body":"you haven't done it quite right."},{"startTime":666.75,"endTime":674.104,"body":"Using the message map is a way to help you prepare for a podcast interview or any media"},{"startTime":666.75,"endTime":674.104,"body":"interview."},{"startTime":674.104,"endTime":681.358,"body":"And at the same time, it gives you that flexibility to just be you because I don't want"},{"startTime":674.104,"endTime":681.358,"body":"you to craft exact sentences."},{"startTime":681.358,"endTime":682.229,"body":"I'm not a lawyer."},{"startTime":682.229,"endTime":685.981,"body":"Lawyers like exact use this word sentences."},{"startTime":685.981,"endTime":687.202,"body":"I'm not like that."},{"startTime":687.202,"endTime":691.074,"body":"I'd rather have ideas or zones that we can talk about."},{"startTime":691.074,"endTime":694.966,"body":"And I think acknowledging how incredibly complicated"},{"startTime":694.966,"endTime":698.509,"body":"electricity bills are is one of the key zones that I had to touch on."},{"startTime":698.509,"endTime":708.557,"body":"And if there has to be fault to place the fault at the hands of the industry, the"},{"startTime":698.509,"endTime":708.557,"body":"electricity industry, it's up to the industry to make it simple or less difficult for"},{"startTime":708.557,"endTime":710.098,"body":"people to understand."},{"startTime":710.399,"endTime":713.501,"body":"So a message map provides you that happy medium."},{"startTime":713.501,"endTime":714.542,"body":"It's got the planning."},{"startTime":714.542,"endTime":725.01,"body":"So you make the most of the opportunity and it's got the flexibility for you to just be"},{"startTime":714.542,"endTime":725.01,"body":"the UIST you that you can be within that interview and stick to that message map."},{"startTime":725.134,"endTime":728.954,"body":"And it's not just, again, what you want to get out there."},{"startTime":728.954,"endTime":734.764,"body":"It is the marriage of what does your audience and sometimes that's via the interviewer."},{"startTime":734.764,"endTime":739.564,"body":"What does the interviewer want from you combined with what is it you want to get out"},{"startTime":734.764,"endTime":739.564,"body":"there?"},{"startTime":739.564,"endTime":745.794,"body":"It has to be a blend of the two podcast interview in 2024 is an amazing opportunity."},{"startTime":745.794,"endTime":754.622,"body":"Even the smaller podcasts, if they fit your niche, this is one of the main strategies,"},{"startTime":745.794,"endTime":754.622,"body":"especially if you have your own podcast, you're looking to grow."},{"startTime":754.69,"endTime":766.677,"body":"This is now one of the key strategies being used by all podcast producers and growth gurus"},{"startTime":754.69,"endTime":766.677,"body":"is to be on other podcasts to show your personality, which is your brand."},{"startTime":766.677,"endTime":769.168,"body":"And more people will want to hear from you."},{"startTime":769.168,"endTime":771.3,"body":"You'll have more followers on social media."},{"startTime":771.3,"endTime":776.706,"body":"You'll have more people listening to your podcast, more people familiar with what you do"},{"startTime":771.3,"endTime":776.706,"body":"or who you are."},{"startTime":776.706,"endTime":781.766,"body":"A podcast interview is a huge opportunity, even if it's a small audience."},{"startTime":781.766,"endTime":783.052,"body":"And then the other"},{"startTime":783.052,"endTime":790.744,"body":"little piece of advice I would offer is if you're a guest, please help that podcaster to"},{"startTime":783.052,"endTime":790.744,"body":"promote that episode."},{"startTime":790.744,"endTime":799.367,"body":"Chances are, I know I've done this myself, where I've had guests on my podcast"},{"startTime":790.744,"endTime":799.367,"body":"specifically because if they're a great interview, terrific, that's wonderful."},{"startTime":799.367,"endTime":805.688,"body":"But if they help me promote the episode, they're using their social media channels, they"},{"startTime":799.367,"endTime":805.688,"body":"include us in the newsletter."},{"startTime":805.688,"endTime":811.832,"body":"I just had a guest on my podcast who before the release date wanted to start pumping out"},{"startTime":805.688,"endTime":811.832,"body":"material."},{"startTime":811.832,"endTime":813.983,"body":"promoting that they're a guest on the podcast."},{"startTime":813.983,"endTime":816.464,"body":"I sent them all the material that I created."},{"startTime":816.464,"endTime":822.486,"body":"The more you promote, the more podcasters are going to want you to be on their podcast."},{"startTime":822.486,"endTime":826.987,"body":"I know I've seen people promoting that they were on the such and such podcast."},{"startTime":826.987,"endTime":836.68,"body":"And if that podcast is somehow not in competition, but it's related to my audience,"},{"startTime":826.987,"endTime":836.68,"body":"chances are I'll reach out to that guest and say, hey, I'd love to have you on mine."},{"startTime":836.782,"endTime":838.563,"body":"So those are three key pieces for me."},{"startTime":838.563,"endTime":840.894,"body":"You have to prepare and proper preparation."},{"startTime":840.894,"endTime":848.708,"body":"One tool is a message map is understanding what the interviewer wants from you combined"},{"startTime":840.894,"endTime":848.708,"body":"with what you want to get out there."},{"startTime":848.709,"endTime":853.791,"body":"Number two is to understand the opportunity that's in front of you with a podcast"},{"startTime":848.709,"endTime":853.791,"body":"interview."},{"startTime":853.791,"endTime":857.073,"body":"And if it's not in your nature, just practice."},{"startTime":857.073,"endTime":858.214,"body":"Anyone can do it."},{"startTime":858.214,"endTime":858.704,"body":"Anyone."},{"startTime":858.704,"endTime":860.185,"body":"It is not a born skill."},{"startTime":860.185,"endTime":861.896,"body":"It's a learned skill."},{"startTime":862.076,"endTime":865.778,"body":"And lastly, to promote the podcast at the same time."},{"startTime":865.986,"endTime":869.872,"body":"For more episodes, please visit podmatch.com forward slash episodes."},{"startTime":869.872,"endTime":871.635,"body":"Thank you so much for listening."}]}