Ani O'Brien: Why NZ Needs Good Faith Yarns, Not Shouting Matches | Free to Speak

This winter, Ani O'Brien is taking the Good Faith Yarns Tour around the country: honest, good faith conversations with locals in towns and cities across New Zealand, on the topics we usually just shout about. 

She sits down with Dane Giraud to walk through the full lineup, stop by stop, and explain why she wanted conversations rather than combat. No debates, no point scoring. Just a willingness to disagree well, listen properly, and stay in the room afterwards for a drink and a yarn. 

Tickets are $10. All dates, venues and booking: 

https://www.fsu.nz/events 

TOUR DATES 

Queenstown, Tue 21 July: Mayor John Glover and Mike Casey (Rewiring Aotearoa) on growth, infrastructure and energy. 

Christchurch, Wed 22 July: Professor Te Maire Tau (Ngāi Tahu) on the Treaty and partnership after the Treaty Principles Bill. 

Dunedin, Thu 23 July: Sir Ian Taylor on technology, AI, ethics and identity. 

Whangārei, Mon 27 July: Far North councillor Davina Smolders on co-governance and local democracy. 

Hamilton, Tue 28 July: Duncan Garner on the press gallery and the state of the media. 

Auckland, Wed 29 July: Rob Campbell on public service neutrality and where the line sits. 

Tauranga, Thu 30 July: Dr Alistair Reese and Professor Paul Moon on faith, spirituality and the Treaty in history. 

Palmerston North, Tue 4 August: Liam Hehir on politics and media beyond the Wellington bubble. 

Wellington, Wed 5 August: Todd Stephenson and Simon O'Connor debate assisted dying. 

More stops to be announced. 

ABOUT FREE TO SPEAK 

Free to Speak is the official podcast of the New Zealand Free Speech Union, uncensored conversations on free speech, civil liberties, and the people defending them. Hosted by Dane Giraud. 

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Transcript

Welcome And What’s Coming Up

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Free to Speak, the New Zealand Free Speech Union podcast. If you enjoy the show, subscribe for uncensored conversations and free speech news from New Zealand and beyond.

SPEAKER_02 0:11

Keota, and welcome to Free to Speak, the official podcast of the New Zealand Free Speech Union. My name is Dane Dreau. I am the host of this podcast, and joining us today is none other than Annie O'Brien. Keota, Annie, how are you?

SPEAKER_00 0:24

Hello, how are you?

SPEAKER_02 0:26

So Annie's got some exciting uh stuff coming up. Uh a tour. Annie is going on tour. What a rock star. The Good Faith Yarns Tour. That's a name, isn't it? I got that right.

SPEAKER_00 0:42

Yeah. It's a play on the fact that sometimes in conversations we have about political things, we tell each other to GFY. And then I realized that it could stand for Good Faith Yarns instead.

SPEAKER_02 0:54

Nice, nice. So what we what we're going to be doing today on this podcast. We'll catch up with Annie, but uh we're going to go through uh a few of the dates here and talk about the the type of people um uh Annie's gonna be engaging with because it and they're very diverse and it's fantastic there's gonna be so many fantastic topics um that you touch on. So it's it's a really exciting tour and very regional, like they're they're quite regional specific, aren't they? Not all of them, but a lot of them really are. So that's that's quite exciting for for punters as well.

SPEAKER_00 1:25

It is, yeah. So we've tried to kind of cover a lot of bases, but we wanted to talk about things that um felt relevant to um different areas, or at least were kind of interesting national conversations that we're having. Um that we're not having. Or that we're not we should be having. Yeah. And so yeah, we've we've kind of ended up with a nice mix, I think. Um there's definitely a theme. A few of them are around treaty, race relations type things, um, which I think, I mean, it shows it's it's a very important topic for a lot of people um at the moment in New Zealand.

SPEAKER_02 2:02

It's one of the taboos, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:04

So we're kind of approaching it uh differently at a few different stops along the way.

SPEAKER_02 2:08

Oh, fantastic. Okay.

Annie’s Writing And Media Blowback

SPEAKER_02 2:10

Well, before we start, so Annie, an eventful year, can you give us a bit a bit of a rundown? Or do you need me to prompt you on on all the mischief you've been up to?

SPEAKER_00 2:21

I have not been up to mischief, Dangero. Um yeah, I I guess I decided about a year and a half ago, really, maybe longer, um, that I would just write. Um, I felt like there was a gap in terms of talking about some challenging issues from different perspectives. And so I started a Substack, which I've kept free because I wanted everyone to be able to access it. Um and then it has kind of gone from just being my musings about politics into a weekly wrap-up to causing a bit of bother around the place. Um and it happened that um I don't know how long ago, is it a month or so ago, maybe two months, um uh having studiously ignored all of my writing, um the the mainstream media picked up one particular piece that I wrote about um an incident involving um then TBNZ political editor Mikey Sherman.

SPEAKER_02 3:21

Oh, that's a few months ago now. Yeah, that's a yeah, could we?

SPEAKER_00 3:25

So um there's been a lot of um, I guess, reaction to all of that. And this I think people thought that I'd somehow like manufactured this whole thing of um like an attack on Mikey. Um, but really the mainstream media had not interacted with any of my work up until that point. So I'm not sure why I would expect that they would have interacted with this particular topic. Um I mostly actually was was not really interested in Mikey's um incident itself. I was more interested in the in kind of I guess a free speech adjacent issue, which was that what don't we know is happening behind the scenes? Because the media is clearly invested in in covering up stuff they don't want out because it's about them or it's about something in parliament that they would rather not talk about. So for me, it was actually about media behavior as a collective and what we are not seeing, rather than being about Mikey herself. Um but yeah, it kind of blew up quite a lot and um has become a thing.

SPEAKER_02 4:36

Yeah, it did definitely became a thing. Um, on that topic about you know what the media chooses to run with and chooses not to run with, obviously we've been victim of that. Uh when the um uh was it speak out for women? Definitely Whitmore definitely took the case in in Palmas North um uh when feminists were being barred from using the library, I think it was. It was a library down there, wasn't it? We've had so many wins in it so long ago that I'm sort of getting a bit hill.

SPEAKER_00 5:09

You know, I was involved with Speak Up for Women back then, I was the spokeswoman, and um we uh we used to have many stories that we'd give to the media, we'd do polling, we'd talk about women's rights, and they'd never touch them, they would never. Um, but as soon as there was something they felt they could bash us with um and make us seem like the like really the bad guys, then it was on the media. And so they they took the side of um anyone who uh used the thugs veto to try and shut us down. We were kicked out of so many, so many different um locations and and myself and a few others were banned from NASA University. It's you know, all the old old uh things that we were dealing with at that time. Um and so yeah, I kind of have that experience with the media of knowing how selective they are and how um there is a group think in which there are certain issues which they have latched on to, they have an acceptable opinion. So in this case, it was to do with the trans movement. Um the media was as as a whole um very supportive of the changes to law that we were opposed to. Um and you know, it's the same with other things. If you if you um were supportive of the treaty principles bill, for example, you weren't going to get a fair hearing in the media this this year. Um so it's different political issues, usually attached to identity, that the media has latched onto and said, this is the acceptable view, this is the unacceptable view, and we are only going to report within those parameters.

SPEAKER_02 6:52

Well, in the case of that win in um against uh Palmer's North City Council, this wasn't a an opinion piece being rejected. This was a major win in the courts. And I think they got it just a tiny little uh few columns three or four days later, hoping it would just be buried. You know, there was nothing.

SPEAKER_00 7:13

Massive win. Like one of the most important lines in it, which we all kind of like cried about, was the the judge said that we could not possibly be considered a hate group because he assessed, you know, what everything that we'd said and stuff. And the media had been calling us hate, hate group extremists, turfs, bigots, you know, like all of that. And so it was incredible to see it written in a judgment. And as you say, the media was never ever going to report on that. They were never going to say, actually, maybe we got this wrong. Maybe they are a group of women who were concerned about women's rights.

What Editors Owe The Public

SPEAKER_02 7:50

Yeah, yeah. Well, well, look, um, just to push back on you a little, uh, the term editor, an editor edits, they do have to make decisions about what goes in, what goes out. So it's like that is part of the job. How would you respond to that? Like uh, how do you get around that?

SPEAKER_00 8:08

Well, an editor should should edit. They should edit for quality and they should uh edit for factual um content. And uh also, you know, inevitably every um publication has its own editorial stance on things, that's for sure. Um, however, it's my argument that media, um especially um public interest, um, taxpayer-funded media, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:33

That that's very different.

SPEAKER_00 8:34

Should be um approaching it. The editor's job should be to create balance and to go, okay, we've got this piece here on this issue. Um, have we told the facts of the story? Have we presented um a comment from this side and this side and this side and let it all lay? Or have we said, this is what you should believe, you these are the bad guys and these are the good guys? Um, and that's the role of an editor as well, is to look and go, actually, my journalists' bias is really obvious in this. Maybe I should send it back to them and tell them to um, you know, write it again.

SPEAKER_02 9:09

Yeah, because surely we know. But I guess you know, some convictions are just uh all depends who like I tend to be a person I'm more in the gray anyway. I'm a bit of a gray area type character. Like I prefer I'm not talking about my my whiskers, but well, even though the silver fox got that working at the moment, you shouldn't be looking at that. Um, so but but there are people that have that sort of religious conviction about certain topics, you know, like a lot there's a lot of woke people that are that it's it's like Christ has risen. That's the way they view a lot of these topics.

SPEAKER_00 9:47

Totally, and just like um, you know, if if you see any professional, right, any any example of a of a professional doing a service, um uh if they are super religious and it's nothing to do with the service they're providing, you probably would say, don't be super religious right now. I don't, I'm not interested in it. Likewise, with wokeness, I do not want to hear your wokeness in this situation. Um, whether it's uh a journalist, if I've got a Christian journalist writing about um a sporting match, I do not want to hear the Christian stuff coming through it. I want to hear about the sporting match. Likewise, I don't want to hear every DEI opinion or what whatever woke stance they can put on it. I want to hear about the sporting match. Um, and so I think that their religious fervor, even though it's not religion, um, is very comparable. And we don't accept it from other belief systems. So why are we expected to accept it from them?

SPEAKER_02 10:49

Well, I would actually say that neutrality for a journalist is professionalism. That's how you would define it. Like you you would define a professional journalist by someone that was able to keep, you know, to to put the opinion opinions aside and write an unbiased piece. Um, if they can't do that, I'd view them more as an amateur, you know?

SPEAKER_00 11:13

Um Yeah, or they're a commentator or whatever. Like people, it's funny. Some people love to tell me that I'm not a journalist, and I say, correct, I'm not a journalist. Um others like to tell me that I'm a very good journalist and I should be a journalist or whatever, but I still would say, look, I'm not, because I am not trying to fill that role that the media should be doing because I'm just one woman with a sub stack. And I'm very clear when I write, when I do my wrap-ups, I'm I am reporting on what I know. Um, and it's usually in a more colloquial tone than um you would see in the media. However, when I write most of my kind of longer pieces, they're not trying to be journalism. I generally do tell you what my opinion is in it. And so, but I'm not trying to be a journalist. I'm commenting, I'm writing, I'm a storyteller. I try to make it clear when I'm dealing in fact, when I'm dealing with opinion. But if I was working for a newspaper as a journalist, I would, I would expect myself to be musical and to not be providing the opinions that I do.

SPEAKER_02 12:24

Well, that's how I always approach documentary. I always approach documentary like that. It was never the Danger O show. You know, I I I handed the mic to the people that I was making the documentary on and really let them, you know, and they'd often say things I didn't personally agree with, but I I it would turn up in the edit because that was who they were. I mean, I I had no problem doing that. I didn't find it that hard at all. It's interesting though, like you got me thinking, if someone is really polemic, um, uh writing, you know, polemical pieces, um, there's a service in that too. Because if you're really head up about someone, uh you are likely to dig a little deeper than than your nine to five journalist who is like, eh, you know, like Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 13:09

I mean, there's a role for everything. I know.

SPEAKER_02 13:11

There's a role for everything, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:12

A lot of when I write super polemic or super opinionated writing, a lot of people enjoy it because mostly because it's a perspective they agree with, but that they're not seeing in the mainstream media. And so that's why they feel an affinity to it. Um, but for example, as part of my work, I write, I do a lot of ghostwriting. And so I wrote as somebody else.

SPEAKER_02 13:35

So do I.

SPEAKER_00 13:37

And so I am in that, I in that moment, I take off my any politics, anything that I have, any of any belief I have, and I put on the hat of the person that I'm writing for. And so as a journalist, that should be the process. You're taking off the hat, which is your own political belief and um convictions, and putting on the journalistic hat, which is I'm gonna tell the facts of this story, and then I am going to report on the relevant stakeholders, whoever it is, has said this, they've said this, and let it land for people. Um, and so I think it's a natural part of writing. Like I also have written fiction, in which case I I have done something completely different, which is enter a different um reality and create um, I guess, uh a fictional story which is imbued with the particular values and and beliefs and stuff I want to imbue in it.

SPEAKER_02 14:38

So yeah.

Storytelling, Controversy, And Censorship

SPEAKER_02 14:39

In in a lot of my film scripts, um I'm working on two at the moment, and two of the main characters are people that I wouldn't ever gravitate towards. But it's interesting that's fun though.

SPEAKER_00 14:53

I love writing like that.

SPEAKER_02 14:54

I love that, and I love that God has sort of given me that opportunity because it's like it's like, no, step into these shoes. You know, I I always come out of uh jobs like that, and same with documentary with a with a lot more sympathy for all the people that I have engaged with.

SPEAKER_00 15:13

Umising. And I think um I find it really interesting. Uh, there's obviously in amongst all the censoriousness of of the last decade or so, there's been this cancellation of books and movies that depict people or beliefs that people consider odious, whoever the senses are. And um I kind of think actually how we explore some of the ugliest ideas and come up with responses to them and figure out that we find that they're ugly is by seeing a depiction of them um in in text or in um in a film. And so if we erase all and we all become these beige, opinionless, woke characters, and that's all we're allowed to consume, uh, and that's basically what's happened to Hollywood, right? Is that it just beige everything. And so no one wants to go to the movies anymore. Um and I think actually getting into a character who you detest or who has done something awful or believes something awful is is actually a really worthy exercise anyway, because it helps us to situate ourselves in these um politics. Um and it's also just super interesting.

SPEAKER_02 16:37

Well, there's another aspect to that too, and and and that and this isn't, I don't think, talked about enough. If you look at the resumes or CVs of the great directors, they are looking for the most controversial thing they can find at the time.

SPEAKER_00 16:54

Not anymore, though. Now it's not.

SPEAKER_02 16:56

No, but see, this is interesting because controversy is connected with talent a lot. That's my point. Like Alfred Hitchcock in 1959, he's getting older at that time point. He's done Rebecca, which was you know, had a lesbian character and clear subtext there. So he's pushing it.

SPEAKER_00 17:13

Well, that one based on the novel.

SPEAKER_02 17:15

On the novel, on the Daphne de Moria novel, yeah. Um it's really, really good.

SPEAKER_00 17:19

Um I think I've seen a more modern um no, see his one, see his one.

SPEAKER_02 17:24

It's black and white, it's very atmospheric. It's it's quite amazing. But he gets a 959, and then he decides he he needs to do something to sort of, you know, like get get his mojo back and and make him the dangerous, you know, the big dog, you know, in the yard again. So he does psycho. Now people are screaming in in the cinemas. Yeah, it's just people uh are losing their minds. Yeah. This is 1960, and the killer is basically a transvestite who thinks he's his mother. Oh no, hold on, I don't know, I'm spoiling it for all you people.

SPEAKER_00 18:01

Oh my god, Psycho in 2026, just like there are no spoiler alerts.

SPEAKER_02 18:06

If you haven't seen Psycho in 2026, I hate you actually.

SPEAKER_00 18:12

No, also he was based on a real he was based on Ed Game, wasn't he?

SPEAKER_02 18:16

Well, as was Leatherface from the Texas Texas Chainswell Massacre, same thing. But you know, that's a risk in 1960.

SPEAKER_00 18:25

I mean that's I don't think it was back then because you were allowed to uh you were allowed to see the danger of um sexual deviancy. We're not allowed to see that anymore.

SPEAKER_02 18:37

That's a big call. This is a whole this is a whole episode, isn't it? People now we could get into it.

SPEAKER_00 18:43

You'll get cancelled if you interview me, you'll tell you.

SPEAKER_02 18:47

I think yeah, I think I am cancelled. No, I I've got no idea.

SPEAKER_00 18:50

You're probably cancelled by association by now.

SPEAKER_02 18:52

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh I get some interesting phone calls and I go, okay, they want to talk to me. It sort of takes you by surprise a bit.

SPEAKER_00 19:03

I get phone calls and I'm like, oh, you're calling to say something nice to me.

SPEAKER_02 19:06

Yeah.

Why The Good Faith Yarns Tour

SPEAKER_02 19:10

Yeah, yeah. Well, anyway, we're having too much fun. I knew this would happen. Uh let's let's get into promoting your tour, your fantastic tour, which I think is an amazing idea. And I I love yes, I I love I love the fact you're going into into the provinces and and oh, you know, major centers too, and having these conversations. We we have a lot of international great people come out here, but we've got a lot of talent at home too. So it's a this is this is fantastic, and and you're so articulate. You you do the work, you're so smart. It's it's it's gonna be just wonderful.

SPEAKER_00 19:43

Um I'll come back if you're gonna be this night.

SPEAKER_02 19:48

Cool.

Queenstown Growth And Infrastructure Strain

SPEAKER_02 19:49

Okay, so our first stop on the the Good Faith Yarns tour is in Queenstown, correct?

SPEAKER_00 19:55

Yes, yes, 21st.

SPEAKER_02 19:57

On the 21st of July in Queenstown. So that's gonna be happening at so where are we? Um Sherwood, Queenstown. Is that a hotel or something?

SPEAKER_00 20:08

You'd have to ask that. Yeah, go online, people.

SPEAKER_02 20:13

Don't take our word for it. Um I'm a great promoter. Um yeah, yeah. No, it'll all on it, all this information will be on our Facebook page, seriously, and you can contact us.

SPEAKER_00 20:24

Yep, and on the website, f su.

SPEAKER_02 20:28

100%. Yeah. So Sherwood Queenstown that says 554 Frankton Road, Queenstown. So the there's a there's an address here. So the guest, the speaker you have there is John Glover, the mayor of Queenstown Lakes District. So what's that conversation going to be about?

SPEAKER_00 20:43

Well, we've actually added a second speaker to that event. So we've got and we have got uh John Glover, who's the mayor, and we've also added Mike Casey, who is the cherry farmer who is better known for his involvement in rewiring our Tierra. So he's the solar um energy guy, and um he's just had a massive announcement today around um this government um picking up one of his ideas around um funding of solar, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Anyway, the reason why he's joined is because a lot of the conversation in Queenstown is about how it's this tourism hub that has just like kind of exploded and they haven't kept up infrastructure-wise, and there are a lot of challenges because of that. And so um the mayor is going to talk to that, but also um, we thought Mike would have some interesting perspectives around um, because obviously with expansion, energy is a massive um element to it. Um, and then we'll also just talk about other stuff that that is um affecting Queenstown. You know, we've got the mayor there, he'll know all the stuff. And then um, as with all of our events, we'll finish up this substantive interview and we'll just have open, open floor QA. Doesn't have to be about what we spoke about. Um, if there's questions for uh For speakers or for me, we'll just yeah, have a bit of a yarn and then afterwards we'll just have a drink and have more informal yarn.

SPEAKER_02 22:08

Great, great. So that's on uh Tuesday, the 21st of July, um uh 6 30 to 8 p.m. John Cliver, mayor of Queen Stout Lakes District. But all the uh information for all of these events is going to be on our website. So um so uh moving on.

Christchurch Treaty Talk After The Bill

SPEAKER_02 22:25

So this this one really interests me. I wish I could get down to Christchurch for this. So an evening with uh Professor Temari To. Yep. Upoko of Nai Tu.

SPEAKER_00 22:35

He's Naitahu, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:37

Yeah, uh uh Upoko of Nayituahudidi, his historian of oral traditions and tribal genealogies, one of the country's most authoritative voices on indigenous knowledge and whiteangi. So that's that's a a big fish. Uh maybe not as big as a North Island.

SPEAKER_00 22:55

Yeah, so I'm actually this is one I'm really looking forward to because um, as I said, a few of our different stops have different conversations about treaty and race issues and that kind of thing. Um so we'll look at it differently in different places. But this one in Christchurch, I particularly asked um if we could discuss basically a more like modern take. So, what are relations like after the treaty principles bill? So we've had this kind of shakeup. There was a bit of cage rattling. Um, now what's the status quo? What does the future look like for New Zealand? Um, and I guess he's he's gonna come in at from a Naitahu perspective, um, which can be quite different from North Island EWE, but um I think it will be a really interesting discussion because he's obviously incredibly well read on on the history of it as well. Um and yeah, I'm hoping that we can kind of distill like a bit of an autopsy of the treaty principles bill fall out um and and where where we go from here.

SPEAKER_02 23:56

Yeah, okay. So, like is good faith Jarns, uh, are you intending on pushing back on a lot of speakers, or is this just about drawing out opinion from a a chap like this? Um uh how fixed is your opinion on this topic, for example? Uh I mean, are you going in there with quite a firm, I mean, open to be persuaded, obviously, but with quite a firm view on it, and you're expecting to butt heads a little, like or do you or have you not really thought about in that regard?

SPEAKER_00 24:29

I have thought strong. I said to Jelaine and the team when we were first discussing this that I didn't want to have debates. I didn't want to like have screaming matches or punch-ups, you know, that I wanted to have conversations. And so while I do expect that um my perspective will be different from um the Professor Timar Timari To's um beliefs, I don't intend to um debate him on it. I'd like us to discuss it in a kind of um more chill manner. Um so I will question things like social cohesion, um, what it means to be a New Zealander, um how we can continue to have a situation where the people with one set of ancestry um have a different set of rights or responsibilities or obligations, whatever you want to call it. Um so I will I will ask those questions, but I'm really hoping we can have the conversation in a super chill manner, which is just actually um teasing out some of the disagreement that exists in the wider community about it. Um because I think we see people screaming at each other about it online. Um, and if we can like take a breath, all right, let's actually talk about some of this stuff. What is the objection um to this particular point of view? Um and let's work through it. So I do anticipate we will disagree. Um I do. But uh the point is that um I am going to attempt to model um the behavior that that we advocate for, which is to disagree without it, it devolving into um name-calling and and hostility. Because I think um, you know, I'm sure that I will still admire the professor's um amazing um resume and the work that he's done, even if I disagree with some of the stuff that he says.

SPEAKER_02 26:22

And a stiff question is doesn't necessarily mean a debate, because uh to get like uh I I did my RNZ panel um uh yesterday.

SPEAKER_00 26:33

You're not mainstream now.

SPEAKER_02 26:35

I know I'm mainstream. I've gone mainstream. I might need to lose this. They wanted me to lose this. I said, I'm not losing it, no.

SPEAKER_00 26:42

I'm relatable, I'm a man of the papal.

SPEAKER_02 26:44

Yeah, what this is just defines me, you know, as as somewhat a bit more sort of earthy, you know. I'm a bit West Auckland, a bit South Auckland, a bit rural, you know, all of that, you know. I've thought it through. Nothing's accidental or dangerous. You should know that, Ali. No, no, but but on on the panel, um uh I I got hit with a question and it was a tough one. Uh well not a not a question, a response, which was um uh, you know, it had a bit of starch in it. It it it was a gift. It actually brought uh an a deeper level out of me uh to the debate that I was making. So we we we want that. It can feel a bit, oh god, how am I going to respond to that?

SPEAKER_00 27:25

Well, sometimes you do get like uh, you know, you feel very strongly about your views and your position, and someone says something to you, especially if there's people watching, there's you know, there's an audience situation, and uh you go, Oh, I hadn't heard that one before. Um, how do I respond to that? And you like it is hard because often we've come to our views through um a long time of experience and thinking and stuff. And so when you get something thrown at you like that, you kind of go, ooh. But I actually think there's also a bit of um there's there's value in having the humility sometimes to say, well, never heard that argument before. You've actually made me think. Um I might have to get back to you on X, Y, Z.

SPEAKER_02 28:07

And too often we don't. Too often we don't. And and and uh yeah, no, you're right. It's too often we don't. We want to save face, it's live on the air or wherever, you know, it's gonna be on a stage and people are there. Uh but but but we should, yeah, we should have the we should have the humility. I think I think it's interesting, isn't it? Because we may feel like we're being embarrassed, but we're probably earning a lot of respect from an audience when we say, I'd really need to take that one away. That's a really good, um, interesting perspective. It's one I haven't reckoned with. Um, you know, maybe even can you unpack it further?

SPEAKER_00 28:44

Yeah, yeah. I think I think is well, it depends on the mindset you enter things in. Like sometimes you go into discussions or debates, especially if it's called a debate, you know, um, you go in with a combative mindset and it's about winning your point. Um, and I think it's important for me when I do this tour, when I do each event, is I don't want to enter it with that mindset. And that's why I made the distinction with Jelaine of I don't want to have debates. Um, because then you're you enter with this thing of like I have to win. But I'm not trying to win anything with this. I'm trying to have a conversation where we model conversation different perspectives. Hopefully, someone in the audience will pose a question to either of us that challenges something that we said. And if you go in thinking you you're trying to win, then that's a threat to that. Whereas if you go in just wanting to listen and engage, then if someone throws a kind of curly thing your way, it's just part of the process, right?

SPEAKER_02 29:46

No, a hundred percent. Yeah. Okay, so we'll look, we'll move on. This is all good though. So I got my notes here,

Dunedin Tech Change And Ethics

SPEAKER_02 29:53

people. I got my notes.

SPEAKER_03 29:54

Deneedin?

SPEAKER_02 29:55

Yep. So then we're off to Dunedin. And you're gonna sit down with Pat Bridenton. No, I'm only joking.

SPEAKER_00 30:01

Oh my god. He talks about me a lot, but he's never spoken to me.

unknown 30:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:10

He should have my biggest fan.

SPEAKER_02 30:12

Yeah, he is. He's a fan. There's a few, you've got a few fans out there. Another one's Philip Matthews, big fan.

SPEAKER_00 30:17

Um, like like I'm probably the single most like obsessed about lesbian by men in this country. Like uh they just obsess about me. And it's like it's half of the stuff they think I stand for. I I'm like, where did you get this from? But honestly, like people send me links to this Pat guy's shows, like, oh, they were talking about you again. I'm like, I haven't even done anything this week. Like, I I just you know went to work, went home to my partner. Like that, I just lived this week, and they are like, oh my god, she's the devil. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:57

Yeah, they're really they're real lightweights as well. Like, you know, like often they'll say, What about this? And and they'll they'll try to sort of own people by going, Well, she said that, but what about that? And it's like, dude, that makes no sense.

SPEAKER_00 31:10

Honestly, I can hold more than one opinion at the same time, like anyone else. You know, I can uh as I say, like the thing they object to the most is my stance on on women's rights versus um, you know, the kind of demands from the trans community. And I can hold the opinion that I hope that people who identify as trans are not discriminated against and live their lives as happy and health healthily as they can. Great. I can hold that and still advocate for legislation and policies that protect women. But if they can't do two different things.

SPEAKER_02 31:44

If they can't villainize you, then they really have to contend with the substance of the argument. Like if you're human, you know, if you're a villain, nothing you say is uh going to be worth listening to because it's coming out of a uh the mouth of a villain, you know. It's like that's what it's about. Uh of course there's nuance here. I mean, e even yesterday on RNZ again, like there was a I brought up Georgina Bayer and there was a bit of a snide comment towards my attitude. It's like this dude, you know.

SPEAKER_00 32:17

Well, you and I both had um lunch with Georgina not long before she died.

SPEAKER_02 32:21

I was just actually thinking about that. Yeah, we had lunch together. It was Yeah. Uh yeah, and I went out for a a a few long lunches with with Georgina. Don't try to guess people's views, people.

SPEAKER_00 32:32

But also it's never been like they've never re reconciled the fact that the births, deaths, marriages, relationships, registration act working group that the government put together, the Labour government, um, Georgina was on that working group and mysteriously was removed. And they made um they made some comment about her being busy or tired or something. But it was because Georgina was advancing arguments that I would advance around um balancing rights. And so the rest of the group were not having it.

SPEAKER_02 33:07

Yeah, yeah, that's that's true. Um Georgina became very marginalized uh by uh the activists.

SPEAKER_00 33:14

They still wanted to be like, you know.

SPEAKER_02 33:16

Yep. Well, a lot of people want to use her name, but they they yeah, they uh they're sort of misrepresenting her a lot. Uh well, so okay, so we'll get here. So Archway 3 Lecture Theatre, Otago University. And uh that's uh on Thursday, the 23rd of July. And so Ian Taylor, so another big fish. Uh I'm excited.

SPEAKER_00 33:38

He's a he's what I really appreciate about him is that he when he does his opinion pieces, when Labour was in charge, he was getting stuck in over there. And when National's in charge, he gets stuck in, and he just isn't having any of anyone's bullshit, really.

SPEAKER_02 33:56

So what's that gonna be about?

SPEAKER_00 33:58

Um, so we're gonna look at technology because that is his kind of area. He obviously um has built his businesses around his it's sport technology is what his um main thing is with the um cricket and whatnot.

SPEAKER_02 34:10

And the and the yachting. The yachting. Yes, he did it. Yeah, yeah, it was pretty much.

SPEAKER_00 34:14

Um incredible. Like, I don't think a lot of people realize how transformative all that that business has been for sport. And so, yeah, I think we're gonna talk about um developments in technology. I'm hoping to get into some of the ethics around it, um, because I think he's an interesting person to talk to about that. Also, to be honest, even though I've I've said it's about that, I do want to get into some of the other politics because he's just he's obviously a political person, um, despite being someone not involved directly in politics. So um I do want to tease out some of that stuff as well. So I think if anyone comes along to that, they'll probably get a quite a varied um discussion um and we'll have a chance to ask him questions.

SPEAKER_02 34:57

Neat, neat. No, that's that's uh you want to take that offer.

Northland Co-Governance And Local Democracy

SPEAKER_02 35:01

So from there, you're going all the way up north.

SPEAKER_00 35:05

Is that I I think I I think I've got a few days at home and then I got to.

SPEAKER_02 35:10

Oh, yeah, I I actually reading this, I thought it's the next day. So, oh wow. No, no, it's it's the 27th of July, Northland Cricket Association um in in Fangare, and you are speaking to Davina Smolders.

SPEAKER_00 35:27

Yes, so she is a um a counsellor from uh as in like a uh a local counselor, not a psychologist, um, and she's from the Far North Council, uh, and she has been at the center of a lot of the um controversy up there around unelected um people being on um council committees and voting. Um so the government's just recently uh said that they're gonna legislate to ensure that only people who have been elected can take part in voting in in local government.

SPEAKER_02 35:58

Um she was part of a story with uh wasn't there a mayor that told Duncan Garner to Yeah, that's it.

SPEAKER_00 36:06

She she so it's um the mayor is um Moko Tapania and he's he's the young Māori guy up there. Um he's an an example of um of someone really young who clearly has developed um a lot of trust in the community and I'm very intrigued by by his his trajectory of his career actually. Um similar similar actually to um Tanya Tapsil and Rotorua, another young Māori leader who uh clearly um judging by the last elections has has the support of her community. Um so yeah, but he has been in a bit of a tussle with Davina and um shows his lack of years sometimes, obviously. I mean he he told um Duncan Garner to to fuck off or get fucked or something, which you know that I mean that's what Wayne Brown says on the daily to people, so I don't know why we're worried about it.

SPEAKER_02 36:56

He'll never be mistaken for being young, will he? So there you go.

SPEAKER_00 37:01

So um I'm really keen to talk to Davina about some of the the politics of all that and and all out. So she's um been very brave in speaking out about stuff that she didn't agree with, what was happening. Um a lot of people have listened, and she's arguably been very successful in in promoting this law change. Um and she now still has to operate in that community, you know, and she's she's got made some enemies enemies.

SPEAKER_02 37:28

Yep, yep. Um Okay, brave woman. So it'll be a good discussion. She'll probably go back over that case.

SPEAKER_00 37:35

Yeah, so we'll go over that. We're gonna talk about co-governance a bit because it is ultimately that's what this all falls down into is is the co-governing agreements between EWE and councils, because that is probably um where the most meaty co-governance agreements are. It's not so much crown as in like central government and eWi, it's the local, localized agreements they have. Um so I think we'll talk a little bit about that. Um, I'm hoping that we'll have people in the audience who perhaps um are from both sides who see those um co-governing agreements as good things and others who see them as anti-democratic or whatever they see, um, and that we can tease it out a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 38:22

Could get a little hot.

SPEAKER_00 38:24

I think it probably will be I at the moment I think it might be the most controversial one.

SPEAKER_02 38:30

Yeah, yeah. Interesting. Okay, yeah. Mm.

Hamilton With Duncan Garner On Media

SPEAKER_02 38:33

So speaking of Duncan Garner, so you're going you're going to be in uh Hamilton um on the uh 28th, so so the following night with Duncan Garner. Yep. And what's that gonna be about?

SPEAKER_00 38:50

So Duncan Garner spent 17 years in the press gallery uh before he then ended up on I think breakfast tally, and now he's doing his own thing. And he is a wealth of stories. I've I said to him, where is his biography and his autobiography? And he's like, oh man, I'd never be able to leave the house if I wrote that. I'd be, you know, get myself in so much trouble.

SPEAKER_02 39:10

He doesn't have much of a filter. He probably won't have a filter that night.

unknown 39:13

No.

SPEAKER_00 39:14

So I'm what I anticipate will happen is we'll talk about his experiences in the press gallery, um, as well as reflect on the current state of media, um, particularly political media. Um, and so I think it could be a very juicy one. Oh, juicy.

SPEAKER_01 39:29

That one's gonna be really juicy. Yeah, it could maybe R16 contain sexual content.

SPEAKER_00 39:40

I'll tell him that you've got those expectations.

SPEAKER_01 39:43

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Auckland Neutrality And Public Roles

SPEAKER_02 39:45

Okay, so uh moving on to Auckland. That's on the 29th of July. And again, all of the details are going to be on our website and and Facebook page and everything. You'll find them. Um and that's with um Rob Campbell, economist, former crown entity chair, and uh and the man at the center of New Zealand's most high-profile public neutrality controversy in years. So talk us through that. He was a unionist too, wasn't he, Rob?

SPEAKER_00 40:18

Yes, he was. So he's I've I'm really excited. He's um he's someone who's strongly from the left and has had a political free speech thing happen. So um he was uh the chair of um Health New Zealand, and um he was became outspoken about an issue completely separate from his work. So I think it was Three Waters when that all was kind of kicking off and everyone had an opinion. Um and it was it got to the point where um he was advocating for positions that were different from the government's, and there was a bit of kind of tension with that, and so he ended up losing his position as chair of Health New Zealand. Now he's currently the Chancellor of AUT, so it has not hurt his career. Um he's still very well respected, but it was just he this is not tenable anymore. So the conversation that I'm hoping to have with him is about where is that line? Um, you know, if we have these um very, very senior public servants, we expect neutrality in regards to their work. Um, and that is very important. We we speak a lot about that. But also, where do we draw the line where they can't then engage with politics that sits in a kind of separate space? Um, is it that they have to give up all of their right to political opinion because of the importance of that role? Or is it that we actually can tolerate um them weighing in on other issues personally?

SPEAKER_02 41:50

It's it's an interesting one, isn't it? We took a lot of heat for Grant Robinson, but it was the same, very similar sort of situation where it's like if he's putting it out there, his opinions, which aren't weren't really related to what to his job on letterheads and things like that, he's he's speaking for the university.

SPEAKER_00 42:07

I don't think that Rob Campbell put anything on letterheads.

SPEAKER_02 42:11

I think it was him being but obviously the person social media, wasn't it, with him?

SPEAKER_00 42:16

Yeah, yeah. Um we actually reached out to Grant Robertson and and asked if he would um be involved in the tour, and he declined. So otherwise it wouldn't be part of this conversation.

SPEAKER_02 42:29

Okay. Oh, well, that's a that's a sh yeah, it could have been part of this conversation. Yeah, well, um, no, it is an interesting one because uh I mean I I think about actors, right? So I w a lot of actors have been very vocal on on Gaza, and a lot of actors have been very vocal on on work politics and all this kind of stuff. Um to me, I find it very hard to watch their films now. Well uh there was a time when an actor would have known I gotta be neutral, I have to just be a because you're a blank slate, so that then you go. Yeah, if and they would have even thought that if I loaded myself up with a lot of um, I mean, if you're a sex symbol scandal probably doesn't hurt you. That's that's part of the branding. But if you're an actor and you know, but you've got all this politics, you are potentially alienating 50% of your audience. Now, if you take that across to roles like this, I I I can see I I don't I don't want anyone to be shut down.

SPEAKER_00 43:34

It's the social argument though that you're making there, because what we have is the professional aspect of it. What right does his employer or the government or whatever have to stop him from speaking as he is part of this role? That is one thing. The other argument that I think you're making is that when we are in certain roles, acting or very important roles, if we don't kind of monitor ourselves. And censor ourselves in certain ways, there can be consequences for how we're perceived. And that is a separate thing because we can make our own call on accepting those consequences or not. If you want to be a rabid activist activist, like they are at the Oscars and stuff, I can't even watch it anymore because it does make it in so much. Um, you know, they are making the choice to, well, I think some of them are not smart enough to realize, but they're making the choice to damage their career prospects in service of making a political statement. Um, that is a choice. I don't and I think we should be accepting of people making those choices. So if if people want to damage their careers, then that's up to them because they can make that that choice of what matters more to them. Does it matter more to them that they get more acting roles and um are able to gain more fame and and be loved across the board? Or is it more important that they repeat a talking point they saw on Instagram?

SPEAKER_02 45:04

Well, we know the answer, but often and and I and I'm I'm victim to it too. Sometimes you lose discipline and you get emotional and you want to comment, but you know, uh, I mean, there's lots of topics I probably I'm I'm trying not to wade into uh a lot of stuff. I don't have I don't have any room left in my head for a start.

SPEAKER_00 45:22

I kind of yeah, I figured that's one cool thing about what I do is that it's kind of my whole role is to to throw the grenades and start the conversations and um and so even though I still suffer consequences for it, right? Like I write something and it can be factual and it can be uh or it could be my opinion or whatever, um, and it can get a massive backlash. But I write it because I see that is my role um in New Zealand at this time to uh open up conversations on things that are not being opened up elsewhere. Um but I have to then wear those consequences because otherwise everyone would be doing it if you know that's right.

SPEAKER_02 46:08

That's right.

Tauranga Treaty History And How We Got Here

SPEAKER_02 46:09

You know that some of us can do it, some of us can't do it. So so let's move on to uh Turonga, and you've got uh and that this is on the 30th, on the 30th of um July, uh Dr. Alastair Reese and Dr. Paul Moon.

SPEAKER_00 46:26

Yeah, Professor Paul Paul Moon, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:28

So Professor Paul Moon. It says Doctor here. I don't think he's a doctor. Is he a doctor?

SPEAKER_00 46:32

He might I think he's got a PhD, but maybe he is a doctor.

SPEAKER_02 46:35

I'm sorry, Paul.

SPEAKER_00 46:37

Paul has a lot of qualifications, I'll tell you that.

SPEAKER_02 46:39

He's got a lot of books, he's got a lot of quality.

SPEAKER_00 46:43

Queen's or king's award of some kind. He might be a sir, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 46:47

No, he's not a sir. Calm down, Paul.

SPEAKER_00 46:52

Anyway. I know. I've got two very, very clever gentlemen um in Todonga, and we um we played around with the topic a little bit because we were initially gonna kind of talk more about religion and spirituality. Um uh, but as that's kind of um Alastair Reese's kind of um space, and also Paul Moon is a religious man with a lot of history uh expertise.

SPEAKER_02 47:19

He's orthodox, isn't he? I think he's an orthodox Christian.

SPEAKER_00 47:22

I don't know what kind of.

SPEAKER_02 47:24

Yeah, yeah. Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 47:25

It's gonna be like, oh my god, I need to fact-check you guys on everything. Um but yeah, so we were gonna do that, and then we kind of realized that we were gonna talk about Māori spirituality, and it was two white guys doing it and me. And it was kind of like, if I'm gonna talk about Māori spirituality, I'd like to probably talk about someone who is into that, you know, and who's actually practicing it rather than what do you mean? Anyway, perceptions and all. So then we were like, okay, so let's let's have a let's have a look at this. What could we talk about? And um what I find really interesting, just like I'm talking to um Tamadi To about in Christchurch, about how we feel about the treaty and about relations post um treaty principles bill, I'm gonna do the opposite with these guys, and we're gonna look at how our relationship with the treaty has looked and felt and been um historically. So, so kind of leaning on both of their historical expertise um and talking about how because how we view it now, the parameters around how we view the relationship are immensely different than how we have previously.

SPEAKER_02 48:34

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:35

Um and so I think it will be a very interesting um historical discussion. I'm really looking forward to it. Um, but also I think it brings up questions about how we got to the point we are now in terms of some of the tensions that have arisen, that kind of thing. So yeah, it's another treaty talk, but uh more a historical one.

SPEAKER_02 48:56

We we need more of these talks because I I I think we uh um I would say 90% of the people 95 to 97 percent of people that that weigh in on these topics do not know enough to really weigh in on these topics. And it it is criminal that we live in New Zealand and don't have that deep knowledge. So this is a gift I think.

SPEAKER_00 49:18

I think to be fair to people, I think they're also afraid to engage. And so then they don't, you know, the more you talk about things and and investigate and kind of experience, then you learn, you gain knowledge, and then you're able to discuss better. I think a lot of people feel paralyzed and think they're going to be attacked if they try and engage with the topic. Now, I didn't the the bone in the body that apparently prevents you from defending yourself against attack, I do not have.

SPEAKER_02 49:50

Um You're tougher than me.

SPEAKER_00 49:53

I just wade into these conversations.

SPEAKER_02 49:55

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:56

But I think what's important for me when we have these conversations is I I don't see it, I'm not going in to be antagonistic to people who disagree with me. I'm going in to hear what they have to say and share the perspective, the alternate perspective, um, and hope that we can gain more understanding of each other's perspective in the process. Who knows if that's actually gonna change anything in that meeting that we have just there?

SPEAKER_02 50:24

But in the long run, if we have more of these conversations, if we normalize disagreements, yeah, no, they're 100%. Uh this is this is what it's about. Yeah, no, a hundred percent.

Palmerston North Politics Outside The Bubble

SPEAKER_02 50:35

So Parmesan North City Library, yeah, you know, you're going back there. That's that's a quite a gangster play going back there, Annie. Um, and that's in the square, that's uh on the 4th of August, and that's with um Liam here.

SPEAKER_00 50:51

Yes, he is a friend of mine, so I'm looking forward to having a chat with him.

SPEAKER_02 50:56

He's just down the road from me. He's just up the road, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:58

He's a local. Um, and he is an incredibly interesting guy, and he's a he's a conservative.

SPEAKER_01 51:04

No, I wouldn't go that far.

SPEAKER_00 51:05

No, what I find interesting is that he's one of the few, like he's a conservative commentator who the establishment left doesn't hate. And I think because he does soften how he approaches things, but he also is just a very likable kind of guy.

SPEAKER_02 51:22

Um, and he's he's very mature, he's mature. He he, you know, I I'm I can I've said this, I can get emotional and just just let rip on people. He wouldn't do that. He he's got a maturity to him, which I do envy. Uh uh, it would make me a lot more effective as a communicator, no doubt.

SPEAKER_00 51:40

So no, it's maybe it's the lawyer in him as well. He's got he's he's a lawyer, he's a father of four, I think.

SPEAKER_02 51:48

Really?

SPEAKER_00 51:48

I think it's four now.

SPEAKER_02 51:49

He's the Catholic, I'm the Jew, and we've got the same amount of kids. That he's gotta get you gotta get busy, my man. What's going on here?

SPEAKER_00 51:56

I'm just look, you guys are doing your bit for the for the demographic crisis, okay?

SPEAKER_02 52:00

A hundred percent.

SPEAKER_00 52:02

Yeah, so we're just gonna talk about. I mean, obviously, he engages with the media a lot as a conservative in kind of enemy territory, if you will. He's usually really conservative, conservative on the block there.

SPEAKER_03 52:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:13

Um, he's also a lawyer, but I I want to talk to him about politics, the media, and also those two things outside of Wellington. You know, he lives in the regions.

SPEAKER_03 52:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:23

He's he's got a different perspective. And so I think it's about also kind of having the conversation about what it's like outside of the bubble, even of Auckland and Wellington, maybe Christchurch as well, you know, where it's um outside of the big cities, if you will. Um, and so yeah, we're gonna talk about that kind of thing and also just have a lot of fun. Him and I, um, when we catch up, have good yarns. So I will just do it with a whole bunch of new friends.

SPEAKER_02 52:49

I'll be there. I'll be at that one. It's just yeah, down the road.

SPEAKER_00 52:52

So so don't ask any trolley question.

SPEAKER_02 52:56

I'm gonna have a list of them. Three or four pages worth. Um, okay, so last one, uh, and and we'll wrap it up, is Wellington.

Wellington Assisted Dying Debate Night

SPEAKER_02 53:07

And this is a debate. You're moderating a debate here, aren't you?

SPEAKER_00 53:11

So that's um this one's slightly different.

SPEAKER_02 53:14

Yep, yeah, yeah. So Todd Stevenson of ACT, current MP, and Simon O'Connor, who was a the the national um MP for for for Tamaquy. Um he he didn't get a C back last election. Um uh conservative.

SPEAKER_00 53:32

I did vote for him, but unfortunately.

SPEAKER_02 53:35

He's a Christian man.

SPEAKER_00 53:36

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 53:37

Yeah. So and this this is about a sister dying.

SPEAKER_00 53:42

So the reason why I wanted to have this chat is because initially when we had the referendum, I voted for it. I was persuaded by David. Um uh David Seymour worked very hard on the bill and he did a lot of persuading. And I I was like, okay, yep, you got me.

SPEAKER_02 53:57

He he brings arguments.

SPEAKER_00 53:58

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 53:59

Um brings arguments.

SPEAKER_00 54:00

Since then, I've engaged a lot with because uh in Britain they've been having this debate um themselves and they've had a lot of drama around it. And so I've been engaging with reading and listening to podcasts and stuff. And Kathleen Stock, who's another terrible turf like myself, she got involved in um this debate and um has written a book, and she has persuaded me the other way. So I voted for it, and now I'm like, oh no. And so I thought, okay, so we've got this piece of legislation that is likely to be attempted to expand. Let's have ACT make their case. Um, so don't be Todd, and let's get someone who I know um is gonna be opposed to it, so Simon. And I'm kind of in the middle because I've previously supported it, but I now have some real worries. And so I'll I figure that I'll kind of treat it as I'll get them to to kind of persuade me.

SPEAKER_02 54:56

Yeah, yeah, make it a learning um evening. Uh yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? Because I I mmm, the religious Jew in me doesn't like this at all. I I I mean, I I understand if people are really in a bad um It's a fan, like it's a fascinating topic.

SPEAKER_00 55:13

Because you have to really break like um I I recommend people read Kathleen Stock's book. I haven't even finished it and I still recommend it. Um, because she breaks it down to its core arguments and to how we feel about death as human beings, as well as um, I guess this the the reality of medical treatment and palliative care and that kind of thing. And she breaks it down to the two main arguments for euthanasia are dignity and freedom. And you ha it's a really interesting one because you can have people who agree that it should be allowed, but come from very different backgrounds. Um, you know, ACT tends to really um be the freedom argument, but they have also delved into this idea of dignity and um and putting people out of um their pain and that kind of thing. Um so it's it's such an interesting topic. And it doesn't really to me, anyway, I think it doesn't matter where you land on it. We're gonna have an evening where we discuss one of the most complex ideas, um, which is should there be a circumstance in which we humanely kill another human being and we're okay with it.

SPEAKER_02 56:29

Well, you know, the comedian Bill Hicks, um, who who was very an amazing comedian, he said that people with terminal illnesses should have the choice to be able to get fucked up in a movie. Like bad boys, bad boys, you know, that kind of big Michael Bay film. If they want to get blown up or go off a bridge, they should have that right. So I might bring, I might actually write that. I don't want to lose that question. I'll write it down. Well, but but look, that's the last one. It's on the 5th of August.

SPEAKER_00 57:04

Do we have a you say that?

SPEAKER_02 57:06

Do you have a pat palette cleanser here? Because that's like a real low.

SPEAKER_00 57:09

No, we've actually got a couple of others we just because when we released the initial dates, we were told, why aren't you coming to here and here and here? So there's just a few others we're trying to see if we can make work. I yeah, I don't want to get anyone's kind of like hopes up by saying yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 57:25

We won't we won't mention the regions yet, but but yeah, maybe there might be a few more, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Something a little brighter to end on, you know. That's all right. No, it's gonna be a fantastic that that will be a very provocative, thought-provoking, very fantastic night.

SPEAKER_00 57:41

And that one's at Parliament, so we're gonna have there's a it's a slightly bigger event. My whole idea is that afterwards we just go to the back benches, but we'll um I'll come down for that too.

SPEAKER_02 57:51

I'll be there. I'll be there. You'll be like, oh, Dan's here again.

SPEAKER_00 57:54

Oh, well, there's curly questions.

SPEAKER_02 57:56

Yeah. All right, and hey, well, fantastic.

Meet-Up Invite, Dates, And Final Plug

SPEAKER_02 58:01

It's gonna be a fantastic tour. Yeah, so what's your message to the people?

SPEAKER_00 58:06

Oh, I'm just so keen to meet. I talk to people online all the time, um, free speech people and people who have engaged with my writing and whatnot. And I would love to meet as many of them as possible. And this is, I guess, a good opportunity to do that, um, to put some faces to names and and that kind of thing. So come along and you can sit quietly and enjoy it, or you can get involved with some questions. And as I said, I'm kind of like, we'll do the event, and then afterwards, these are not massive crowds. So those of us who want to stay and have a drink, we can continue conversations and um, you know, be a bit more informal and yeah.

SPEAKER_02 58:43

Fantastic. So all the details for this, uh you know, subscribe to the Free Speech Union if you haven't already. But all the details for this yeah, will be uh will be uh on on all of our socials. Um we'll be updating you with everything. But yeah, that's it. Fantastic. Annie, great talking, and we'll speak again soon.

SPEAKER_00 59:04

Thank you for listening to Free to Speak. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and consider sharing the podcast with others. We release new episodes regularly, and subscribing is the easiest way to stay up to date. If you have any questions, feedback, or suggestions, you can contact us at podcast at fsu.nz. If you want to find out more about the New Zealand Free Speech Union, visit fs.nz.