Elliot Ikilei: Can a Conservative Truly Support Free Speech? | Free to Speak

Elliot Ikilei, former New Conservative leader, key figure in Hobson's Pledge, and now New Zealand First's 2026 candidate for Takanini, joins Dane Giraud for a conversation that moves from common ground to open clash. The two grew up streets apart in Auckland's lower socio-economic suburbs, and they begin by comparing notes: absent fathers, imported gang culture, rage, and the long road back. Elliot recounts going off the rails as a young man, finding faith at 25, and how frontline youth work convinced him that family breakdown, not colonisation, was driving the alienation of our young people.

 A card-carrying lefty became one of the country's most prominent social conservatives. From there, it is conservatism versus progressivism head-on. Dane and Elliot debate whether Drag Queen Story Time is a free speech issue or a child protection issue, whether the trans community is helped or ultimately hurt by censorship, why Elliot's Free Speech Union membership lasted only days, and whether a traditionalist can defend speech he finds abhorrent. They finish on Elliot's campaign to take one of New Zealand's most diverse and unpredictable swing seats off National.

Transcript

Welcome And Candidate Introduction

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Free to Speech, the New Zealand Free Speech Union podcast. Subscribe today for uncensored discussion with truly fascinating people and all your latest free speech news, both here in New Zealand and abroad.

SPEAKER_03 0:20

My name is Dane Giroux. I'm a council member of the Free Speech Union, and joining us today is Aliot Ikele, the candidate for Takanini New Zealand First.

SPEAKER_02 0:32

Hi Kiara Dane, very, very honored to be here and very honored to speak with you and your listeners.

SPEAKER_03 0:38

Fantastic. So you're with New Zealand First. Now, this is a relatively recent um announcement, isn't it? Because you're a former leader of the Conservative Party. Uh you you were the co-leader for quite a while. That's where I first came across you and you started making a name for yourself. Would that be correct?

SPEAKER_02 0:57

Yeah. So yeah, I joined up with New Conservative maybe about uh 10 years ago and became the deputy leader at the 2020 election. We had the previous leader leave, and then I took on the leadership, or I think it was for a good solid four weeks, four, four to six weeks. And then I decided to leave as well. So been a lot of fun. And then I joined Hops' Pledge around a couple of years after that. And yeah, been a wonderful journey. And of course, a couple of months ago, two months or nearly two months ago, I got announced as a candidate for Takadini.

SPEAKER_03 1:34

Fantastic. So um, yeah, we're we're gonna have a good chat about you know your uh your plans, your campaign, and everything like that, and free speech. Like we've got a bit of a history. Uh, you were a very fleeting member of the free speech union, which we will get to because you know, you I know you we're we're gonna we're gonna get into it. We had a bit of a a pre-interview phone call and and we're gonna talk about that incident. So that's a teaser for you, isn't it, people? Bit juicy, you know reason to stick around. Um we got we got the T.

SPEAKER_02 2:04

We got the T.

SPEAKER_03 2:07

Did I say conservatives or new conservatives? I didn't say new conservatives, did I?

SPEAKER_02 2:10

Uh new conservatives, but I think it was uh I joined when it was still conservatives and then they had a little name change.

SPEAKER_03 2:16

Oh, okay. So so so so I I shouldn't be too harsh on myself. So that it went from the conservatives new drama to the new conservatives. So so like Labour to New Labour. So what was the new about?

SPEAKER_02 2:27

I think the new was more about a fresh start because of the drama that was had with the previous leader, Colin Craig. Um I think the idea was they say, hey, new board, new team, new Fort Heavy Ford, and but still retaining the conservatism that we were known for.

SPEAKER_03 2:50

That's not very good though, eh? When you leave your your party has to call themselves New just to just to just to rinse the mouth out.

SPEAKER_02 2:58

Yeah, that's my that's my take on why we went to New, but it's possible that the people who who really pushed for the the retitling, they might have had different reasons. In my head, I'm a bit more pragmatic and a little bit more Occam's Reza, so for me that's sort of where it comes from.

SPEAKER_03 3:14

Yeah, yeah, no, no, fair

From Conservatives To New Zealand First

SPEAKER_03 3:16

enough. Great. Okay, well, look, um, so we're gonna talk a bit about conservatism and and free speech and whether there are uh any bumps there. That's gonna be the the the meat of the free speech discussion here. But it will be good to to know um what you're gonna be doing in Tuckanani, like I said, because you know I'm from South Auckland. I know that uh electorate uh is it relatively new, this electorate, or it's being redrawn, hasn't it?

SPEAKER_02 3:38

Very new, yes. So it is a new one. It first came out in 2020, so it's only been running this will be the third or upcoming to its third movement. It's a swing seat. So at first a Labour person held it, then it was Remanaklia from the National Party. It's a very heavily fought for electorate. You will find that the people that they've placed in there, Remanakley on one side and then a person called Karag on the other side, oh, it's gonna be a brutal fight. For myself, a little bit different. We we find if people want to vote for us as a candidate, hey, no problem. Well, what we really fight hard for is that party vote. We're going for the hard values as opposed to a personality and identity.

SPEAKER_03 4:23

Yeah, but man, you've got a great personality, so you don't want to, you know, to get that party vote, you your personality's gonna be front-center.

SPEAKER_02 4:30

Yeah, it's pretty it's pretty cool. I will have to say I travel around New Zealand for work, and whenever I travel around now, I'm doing meetings with crew who support New Zealand First and ones who have you know tracked along with my own journey for a while as well. So it's been awesome, it's been funny. Can I just say to your listeners, if you are, if you are listening, thank you for much for the uh beverages that you have shared with me. I really do appreciate it, but it's been a wonderful journey.

SPEAKER_03 4:56

New Zealand First is on the up, and and it would be good to get your take on why. But but before that, uh let's go back to your origin story, because you you so you don't come from South Auckland, you actually come from Glen Inner. So just take us back, you know, your background, how you came to be. Uh were you always conservative? You know, is this something that you you were sort of led to at some point? Was there a uh what is it? Is it did they call it come to Damascus?

SPEAKER_02 5:24

Yeah, I was gonna say Damascus road to Damascus.

SPEAKER_03 5:27

Road to Damascus, yeah, come to Damascus.

SPEAKER_02 5:29

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Childhood Upheaval And Finding Faith

SPEAKER_02 5:30

So I was actually born in in Palmi, uh, and mum was a teenage mum. She actually suffered a sexual assault, and then she uh turned into a bit of a mess. She ran off to a place called Bunnythorpe, and that's where she met a handsome young brown guitarist, which ended up being my dad. So my brother and I we got born that way. We were there, went over to Australia, they broke up, we came back, and then I started my growing up journey in Point England. And I I always say GI because people know GI, but Point England's a little sliver on the side. So grew up mostly East Auckland, and then of course, South Auckland. Uh, spent some years living in Australia as well. When I started off, I was probably quite an angry young man. Uh, my teen years also were spent in in Kiri Kirinoa in Hamilton. Um, and there was a lot of drugs, a lot of alcohol, yeah, self-inflicted stuff. And I think I really went off the rails mostly because of the broken homes that I ended up be within. And whether I subconsciously took that as my own fault or not, that's a matter for another time. But I just went down a bit of a dark road, very much a dark path. When I came back, uh it was through faith. Uh so I became a Christian at age 25. This led me to go straight into youth work. And at first it was all in personal life, so I'd work, work, work, work hard, and then I'd also be working with youth as well, just wherever I could volunteer, advise the end advise panels, end advise regional panels, and all the like. Eventually that became a profession. The profession of youth work, behavior modification units, pastoral teamworks, resilience forces, sexual ideation, and the whole raft of things. That ended up leading me into politics. Why? Because I started seeing that we weren't winning overall in terms of the lives and the healthiness, the mental healthiness of our young people. We were just winning cases here. Did a bunch of study, found out, oh, yep, it's about the family upbringing. And when I look into the breakdown of the family, found out that it wasn't, as I previously believed, evil white man, colonization, inequities, truth of white tongue breaches. It wasn't any of that. It was how we grow up when we're young.

SPEAKER_03 7:53

So you you were about that, bro.

SPEAKER_02 7:54

You you you were oh, I was a card carrying, oh, a lifty. You I would nearly call myself perhaps not a socialist, but at least a socially extremely liberal, extremely liberal, which probably goes to my own going off the rails and my own desire to go my own way.

SPEAKER_03 8:13

And and distrust of the state. Like, see, when when I when I listened to you, bro, and we I we haven't had this conversation, even though we've been, you know, we've there was we clicked there, and it was without even many words. Uh, this it was a bit unspoken, and and like uh the your story is quite similar to mine, but you know, like I Hood knows Hood. Yeah, yeah, Hood Hood does does know Hood. Um and I think you know, one of the reasons I'm on the free speech union today, I would say, is um that that feeling of being not listened to by the state, uh being quite abandoned. Um it was interesting because you know that the the guys in counterspin. Well, they did who who's who's the um uh Hannah Spear and Calvin Alps, I believe. Yeah, yeah, Alp Alps. He he was interviewed by Michael Laws at one point, and you know, I'd listened to one or two of their shows, and I didn't think much of them, you know, that they were very conspiratorial and and and everything. But Michael Laws was like, Hold up, hold up. So where are you from? So he started the way we're starting. And and and Calvin is it?

SPEAKER_02 9:24

I I believe so he's Calvin.

SPEAKER_03 9:26

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He he didn't want to go there. He didn't want to go there. Interesting. But but yeah, but but Michael was no no, slow down, slow down. And it was so smart of him. He's such an expert broadcaster, Michael Laws. Like he's he's he is really fantastic, and um, and he got out of him solo mum mangerist. And like everything clicked for me. Yeah, yeah. I I knew where the anger came from, I knew the whole deal from from then on. It's that intense distrust of the state that um uh a chap like he that he obviously had, but a lot of us do have it, you know.

SPEAKER_02 10:02

Uh you know, I think yeah, I think also my favorite band in the 90s won't be a surprise to you, probably one that you love as well, which is Rage Against Machine. Uh first album, not the other albums, first album. So that became a bit of a mantra for me as well. I just yeah, I just loved it, lived it, breathed it. So yeah, I definitely definitely had a very deep mistrust uh of the state. Um so yeah, became Christian, joined his youth work, youth work lead me into politics. Uh it was actually, yeah, that's right. It was the breakdown of the family, and and a stat that I like to use because it is it does form a good basis, is I was an anomaly back in the late 70s. I was born in the late 70s, and if you were born and you fuck up up a Māori in the late 70s, you had an 80% chance of being born into a married mum and dad home. So Mori, late 70s, 80% chance of being born into a married mum and dad home. Well, by 2015-2016, that had dropped out to 20%. So it went from 80% you're born into a married mum and dad home, all the way down into 20%. Uh it's quite quite horrific numbers, and you'll see that the antisocial stats follow along going up as the uh married parentage goes down, and married parentage is is of deep empirically based knowledge of how a young person is best raised, probability speaking. Yes, if you've raised a single mom, single dad, God bless you, and I hope it goes well. But statistically speaking, the best form of home for a young person is with a married mum and dad, reasonably low conflict family. That's that's just every single number approaches it. So after that, I found that well, where

Youth Work And The Family Breakdown

SPEAKER_02 11:53

did the family breakdown? And then that took me back to 1974, which was the policy, I believe well-meaning policy called the DPB, which I think unintentionally subsidized solo parenthood. And this came about six years, uh sorry, six years, it came approximately 10 years after Lyndon Bain Johnson's The Great Society, where you had solo parenthood being un, I would believe, unintentionally subsidized at that point as well. And the same breakdown that you found in the American black family is very similar to the breakdown that you saw in the Maori family in New Zealand. So for me, everything came to Wellington, and that's when I entered into politics. Trying to deal with fix up the youth situation, that led to the family situation. Looking at the family situation, that led to the economic situation. Looking at the economics, immigration and uh landfall situations and environmental impacts, and it eventually went to constitutional systems, uh you know, equality, uh, bill of rights, freedom of speech, freedom to gather, the the fundamental underpinning systems that make the western culture and the western civilization the western civilization. That is the two pillars of ancient Greek democratic style of rule, and that being tethered to Judeo-Christian principles, ethics, and morals. And so that's where I ended up leading into as I went my political journey went on, and so did my understandings of where the big, big defenses need to be. This is why I've gone through, tracked through how my thought processes have evolved, or not even evolved, if anything, become strengthened, and why my leftist allegiances were, I suppose, carved off because as I learned more, as I saw more, as I experienced more, I realized my leftist ideologies were nonsensical when it came to reality and when it came to the the umbrella principles that allow us to live, work, succeed, love, and live life.

SPEAKER_03 14:05

So that that's that's awesome, man. So what I'm hearing is this you're working with young young people, uh uh young young men and women. Yeah, young women, young men.

SPEAKER_02 14:17

Yep, yep. Uh different seasons for different parts. So yeah, uh top-tier male youth offenders, then I think it went to uh 16 to 19 year old men males, females, then it went to adolescents or or uh year 17 uh uh children of both types. So different seasons, different groupings.

SPEAKER_03 14:37

So you're working with them, you're you're through Christian Christianity and your your exposure to these uh these um uh young people, you're you're really identifying that the the absence of the family is an issue, but it's probably you're probably seeing yourself reflected in in all of these kids, or am I going too far to say that?

SPEAKER_02 14:59

I think the pain, the various pains that occurred to myself would be motivators, I suppose, uh, in terms of dealing with it, and partial, there's atonement there as well, because I did some some things during my past which I'm I was deeply ashamed for. And so there's a bit of a partial the pain that I felt, or the various different little pains that I had coming up. Had a beautiful, extended family, I have to say. And my mum and my dad both really did their best to live life and to help my family. But there were just inherent negatives, it just had just inherent scarring that you can fly from it. So the all those parts, it's a bit of a combination. One is some of the inherent scars that you receive, the other one is the atonement factor, and and I'll carry those for the rest of my life as well.

SPEAKER_03 15:55

Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, so will I. I mean, the the the thing with fatherhood, like I would consider myself left and and and progressive, but I'm I'm the guy that uh yeah, I I give things to the conservatives. I I do say things like, well, they're better at that. They're better at that. They're better at that.

SPEAKER_01 16:12

Well, you can't you can't be a progressive dean. You could be a that sounds like you're a classical liberal dean.

SPEAKER_03 16:18

Uh well, I I probably am. And and the reason why I've I've traditionally found it hard to vote for parties, to be honest with you, is that for every three policies I like, there's going to be three that I'm not gonna like. I tend to take I don't I don't get out my left-wing handbook and go, oh, um, oh, oh, I'm not not allowed to like that. You know what I mean? Like I to me, I I I I I try to be as intellectually honest as I can.

SPEAKER_02 16:42

So is the colour of your is the colour of that handbook red by any chance?

SPEAKER_03 16:47

A little red one. I do my exercises in the morning to the cleaning. You know, yeah. But but like for I think the the like, especially for young men, you know, when the father leaves, is I didn't have a great relationship with my father. It wasn't a great relationship at all. You know, I wanted him to go when he left, but when he did leave, that's when I went off the rails. And when I look back, I can see that. And I tell you what, I I'd walk to school, you know, that whenever I went to school with my friends, and Abe Fadawaka was up the up the road at the time in Otahuhu. He was on Panama Road. He's the head of the Black Power for all you people that who don't know who that name he passed away about. Old name. Old name. Yeah, old name. About six years ago, he would have passed away, something like that.

SPEAKER_02 17:32

Oh, okay, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that's right. That's right. Yep, yep.

SPEAKER_03 17:35

Yeah, yeah. Well, he had a limousine. He had a white limousine and he would cruise through Utahu in a white limousine. Now, we had never seen anything like that. Because uh our our fathers were all employed by Westfield and Southdown, that closed down. Once that happened, they're at the pub, there's not a lot of jobs around, there's a real sense of betrayal because they'd really believed in that that labor government, and and then you know, they lose they lose their their employment. Um, and uh and we started losing a bit of respect for the old old men because it was like they weren't working, they were they were absent. And then we see this guy in a white limousine cruising around, and then we'd wave, try to get his attention, and every now and again he waves back, whoa, I'm anointed by the head of the black power. You know what I mean? So so we start thinking, that's I want a car like that. I want to be driven around in a car like that. And that's where a lot of that sort of stuff started. It's like he could be my dad, you know. People like that could be the father figure, you know, like, and I'll end up with the great car, you know, and and stuff, because we didn't see a lot of wealth out there. But it, you know, unemployment, you know, fathers being absent, drinking, and then going completely. And it's it's very, it can be very hard for for, you know, like a mother with the best of intentions, a fantastic woman to hold on to a young man with all the raging hormones and the testosterone that wants to get out there, wants to rough it up, wants to prove himself, you know, want wants to prove that he can he can scrap and he can, you know, he can be at a level with some of the others and all that kind of stuff. It's it's it's a trap, isn't it? It gets very, it's very tough.

SPEAKER_02 19:23

Well, and and the thing about a man, a young man coming up, becoming a man, is we require the input of another man to do it. It is it's actually a requirement. Our ladies, they don't grow in the same way, they don't need it. But for men, we need to have someone to follow to impart to us. What are we supposed to do? It's a very big commonality. So if we do not have our fathers or our uncles or our grandfathers, we'll find them. We'll find someone somewhere who will be. And if it means that it's a black power member who's weaving out you from a limo, but we also know of what we hear rumors and we hear the grapevine of what gets told to us, we'll follow it. I mean, I mean, people don't people would laugh now, but uh my life was modelled on aspects of Snoop Dogg and Tupac and Ice Cube back in the days where they were viewed upon as the deep core gangsters back then. We emulated. I mean, the the Cryps of the Bloods that you will find in the youth gangs today in New Zealand, that ain't got nothing to do with New Zealand. That is nothing to do with New Zealand, that is straight copied from the US environment, straight copied. So if we don't have the men in our lives, we don't have fathers, grandfathers, a male role model, we will find them. And that's that is what that is exactly what we've seen. And this is going to be a bit of a very sad statistic, but this is born over in Australia and the US. New Zealand doesn't ask these questions. But when you look at a young person who's grown up in a solo dad environment and a young man who's grown up in a solo mum environment, the the statistical, the stats around a young man growing up in a solo dad environment, they are far less likely to engage in criminal behavior, substance abuse behaviour, than a young man who's grown up in a solo mum home. And God bless the mums, they're doing what best they can. But the st the statistics are too loud and too clear. That you that the men need a man in their lives to grow up in some sense of positive formation.

SPEAKER_03 21:38

See, that's interesting because a lot of lefties would listen to this and they would absolutely hit the roof at that. They just wouldn't be able to accept it. Women are amazing, and but it's got nothing to do. I mean, my mother was fantastic. She was as supportive as a mother could be. It didn't matter. It did matter, but but for for a few years there, it didn't change me. So it it's it's it's not a slight on them. That's what people have to understand. It's not a slight on them.

SPEAKER_02 22:12

If whenever I bring this up, it always gets a massively negative reaction from the leftists. And a lot of it. So I am often quick to say when I do some speeches in front of presentations of with people, I'm often very quick to say I have grown up in multiple broken homes. So not just your solo mum, solo dad. I've actually had solo mom and a solo dad environment of growing up, and even other situations being broken apart as well. So it's important to note that there it's just that the way which we have are raised. Now, most of my life was brought up in a solo dad environment, so I did come formed and strong and very independent, too independent as it turns out, and also lacking a significant amount of sympathies, lacking a lot of gentleness of the nurturing, the nurturing side. And it it it it was it it was and is a negative in my dealings. So I've so my wife has had to teach me so much over the years, she has had to build help build in me to bring back what is this nurturing stuff, what is this gentleness stuff?

SPEAKER_03 23:20

It's only now, man, in my 50s, that I can even have a relationship. Relationships with fiery, you know, just passion, yelling, uh terrible. Just you know, couldn't just rage, a lot of rage, man. Yep, a lot of rage, which I try to channel into the writing now, but no, it's it's definitely that way.

SPEAKER_02 23:42

Yeah, yeah, we're quick to what it we're quick to think like.

SPEAKER_03 23:45

Yeah, quick, yeah, quick to it, quick to it. It's it's just you kind of can tell when someone comes from Struggle Street. Yep. It's like yep, yeah, who knows hood, hood knows hood, yeah, man. Well,

Why New Zealand First Feels Right

SPEAKER_03 23:58

um, okay. Well, this is this is awesome and and very deep and and and and and wonderful, man. So um so so you are with New Zealand first now. So how did that opportunity come about? Was it hard for you to move from uh and you can I mean I I knew there was a a few years off for you, but but what attracted you to New Zealand first? Because they are sort of a but Peters is a bit Maldonist. There's a um there's a mix there of of some left ideas, uh um uh state ownership and and different things like that. Um, but I guess economics out South South was always quite socially conservative in many ways. It was the economic side of things that was more on the um uh on the left side. So did you was any of that hard for you, or have you found the fit right? I mean, what what attracted you?

SPEAKER_02 25:04

So yeah, so 2020 went I left the party just in the very start of January 2021. That's that's a new conservative. Yeah that's when I was there, I was when I was with the new conservative, and then I actually spent the next couple of years just repairing the family because uh in my in my campaigns I had damaged a family by always being out there doing the fights around the whole country, battling away. When I was at home, I was talking with other candidates and talking with other crew, helping to train them, build them, be pastoral. So even when I was at home, I wasn't at home. I did damage. Didn't have that balance yet. Yeah, yeah, there's just no balance whatsoever. So uh 2021 till now, I would say, uh, I've been present, I've made sure I'm there, we made sure we got a new house, uh, made sure that I was at the you know at the grounds and and as much as I could do, just really focusing on the family. Then, of course, in 2024, 23, 24, I joined Hobbs' Pledge. Uh, but it was around about that time as well that I really liked what I was seeing from New Zealand first. And it really seemed as if they had, in my opinion, fixed up what had gone wrong in 2017. I fought against them in the 2017 and 2020 campaign system, but I still kept very strong links with them as well because I respected them and I liked them. And so I kept on those. We I've talked to some of them for years, many, many years. Uh I loved what I saw, talked with uh the my one of my friends who is Casey Costello. She she was doing some wonderful stuff over there. Uh, and then then we sort of moved together. Me with Hobbs' Pledge, New Zealand First, traveling forward. I was keeping very close eye on them, and the policy they were bringing up, beautiful. It was exactly in line with with things that I wanted. Not 100%, but but almost exactly, almost exactly in line. And I really enjoyed what I was seeing and the wins as well that they were taking. And I think what also was really cool was in Hospital Pledge, we would expose things. I would be pushing it out there, and then New Zealand first act, and then to a lesser extent, national would come to the party, pick it up, and then change laws and policies for it. Now, if they want to take, if they want to say, oh, that's ours. Hey, thumbs up, we don't care. We just wanted to expose the event, bring it out to all the people, make a bit of noise, and then let the politicians do what their job is to do. And that's that's exactly what we saw happen. I love the strength I was seeing from New Zealand first. I've always been an admirer of Winston Peters. There's there's actually three people admire. Oh, absolutely. But the three there's three leaders in the history of the world where I've really liked, really, really liked, and that would be um one of them would be Sir Aperana Nata, the other one would be Winston Peters, and the third one would be Li Kwanyu, who is the Singapore, uh the a great man of Singapore in many different ways. Uh so I was very closely watching, very loving the policies, and then what earlier this year I spoke to Casey again. I said, you know, I don't know, man, people are bugging me, people are on my ex and on my Facebook, and I've ever had some comments saying, Hey man, you need to be a canner of this party. What is wrong with you? Everything you're saying here, these guys are doing, you like what they're doing, so what's the deal? And so I had a chat with Casey. Casey kicked my butt because she was very strong and said, uh, duh. So that was awesome. So I moved through, just went to the practice, and everything just sort of slotted in line. It was one of those real crazy times where doors open, things slotted into line, and here I am. And yeah, when I, you know, God willing, if the people send me to parliament, uh, I will be going in there with a bit of a flamethrower. So if it happens, it happens. But but for me, it's also I'm also philosophical. If I get in, awesome. I'm gonna I'll be coming in there for threes and let's go. Let's let's throw some some metaphorical, let's throw some hands. Uh and if I don't, sweet. I will go back to Hobbs' Pledge and we'll fight even harder, expose more. So it's a I don't know, it's a win-win.

SPEAKER_03 29:30

Did you have to be anointed by uh uh Matua?

SPEAKER_02 29:34

Like did no? No, no, he's yeah, he's he's busy as that guy. Uh oddly enough, I actually met him and uh it was in my high-vist gear and it was at the airport. That's the first time I actually met him, and I just had to roll up things. Oh Matua, that's what I say. Love everything you're doing for our nation and our people. Love it. Thinking, you know, I didn't want to get into a discussion with him about all I'm it he'd have to he'd have to know that you were you were in though. I mean, like he's not he'd be we've done the official sort at the Falais Amor in Magade, where you know, we officially, he officially gave us his blessing and anointing. Uh but uh beyond that I'm not sure that that guy is busy hard.

SPEAKER_03 30:16

Well, but that that's interesting, isn't it? Because that's a pre maybe it's just a perception I have, but but but I think myself and a lot of other people have it have a view that like it's it's his party. Like whatever gets said, whoever gets approved, he had whoever's in, it's because he he made it so, you know.

SPEAKER_02 30:34

Um or is it I I think he's he has set the bones of it. So 1993, when they first got set up, he's made sure that he's led the charge. So he is one of those leaders who has holds that flag and he guns it and then the team follows on behind him. But I've realized that was a misconception I had. I thought that it was you know Winston first and that was it, da da da. I don't think it is. I think he has built a powerful solid force, and this is where this is where the Li Kwanu thing comes into play. Li Kwanu also he led the charge in Singapore, he built a strong party. One thing that you find that doesn't that I don't think is a very good thing, is in many of the political parties, they'll swap leaders out constantly. You know, the personality will come, they'll go, they'll come, they'll go, they'll come, they'll go. But if you want a solid party overall, you do want to have a strong leader who is a strong core in there, and then have a strong, solid team to flow through with it. So your infrastructure and your processes and your compliance and all of that needs to be in it so solid because the people who are in those other positions are solid. Mattor Shane Jones, pretty solid, doesn't need to be you know, toying along with Mattor Winston, fire Casey, again, solid and strong, doesn't need to be focused. And then you've got the other guys, Julian Paul, the president, Derek Ball, the chief of staff, and and now the campaign manager. These are all hard-bitten veteran warriors themselves who create this strong, solid unit we call New Zealand First. So I think he's got the right people.

SPEAKER_03 32:23

Well, well, well, but there's something very particular to Winston Peters, too, that that not many politicians can claim, and that is that he can sort of maneuver away from a policy and almost jump onto the other side as if as if it never happened, you know, like and and he'll just he can write it out like not many people can do that.

SPEAKER_02 32:47

Oh, he's you know, yeah, he's got a very powerful will in how he changes his mind. So if he does change his mind, he's got a very powerful way of doing it. And what I learned.

SPEAKER_03 32:57

He's unapologetic. He's unapologetic, and and I think there's a lesson in that. I mean, we want to be courteous, but he's he is unapologetic and and can um and just yeah, just okay, I'm here now, and just I'm I'm I'm steaming on, you know.

SPEAKER_02 33:13

There were because there were some things, and this comes back to when I you know I fought against them uh back last the last decade. I've come to see not by not by being told something's repetitive, but I've been able to come to see why he chose certain decisions back then. And I've tried my best not to have my own confirmation bias on it, where I'm like, oh well, I just want to believe this because I'm now with the team. No, I've been doing my best to step back and have a look at it, and I do on the whole, not in everything, but on the whole, I see why he made certain decisions in terms of how to go, who to go with, and everything like that. Uh there were some things I disagreed with, but I am so on board now, and I've seen that they're so in line. That's why I spent three years just sitting there and watching and testing and checking. Three years before I made the decide to make that big plunge or or accept the prompting of making the big plunge into candidacy.

SPEAKER_03 34:16

Uh I would say a political party has has a degree of flexibility that say even like the free speech union just doesn't have, you know. And this is where, you know, we can upset some supporters because we're holding to the principle that can't bend, or else our organization isn't really worth the paper it's written on. And um, so we we're gonna we're gonna upset everyone at some point in time. It's just the way it is. I guess you could argue a political party can do that too, but I think that there is an acceptance to it. Supporters want you in power. So they will take that they'll understand compromises if it gets it if if they get what they want, which is to get in power. It's a it's it's harder for an organization like us with where it's all about principle, you know. Well, like we're gonna be able to do that.

SPEAKER_02 35:06

When I was with um yeah, when I was with Holps of the Pledge, I I know exactly what you mean. There were sometimes the Holps of the Pledge where you you know, and I I don't think it's I don't think I I'm being dodgy. I don't sorry, not dodgy. I don't think I'm being naughty in saying this, but I was not the biggest fan of David Seymour's treaty principles bill. Interesting. Yeah, and I liked most of it, but I could not stand, I think it was section two that he had, and on that one he's he wrote down, and I'm paraphrasing here, that yep, we've got to make sure that everyone's gonna be treated equally. But if there are currently discrimination practices in place now, as per you know, uh as in certain certain iwi, not Mari, but certain iwi are going to have extra fishing rights or extra land rights or uh veto powers, you know, whatever they might have. He said he basically made it so that that would stay. And I'm dead set against that because it's like, well, no, you it's not like you can have I don't like using the word, but you're not gonna say, well, let's get rid of any apartheid practices, but we'll keep some of them.

SPEAKER_03 36:16

How does that work? It doesn't well, yeah, it would have been.

SPEAKER_02 36:21

I mean, we're talking about dismantlement at that point of quite a few systems that I'm happy to dismantle anything that treats one particular person as more, as better, more important, uh discriminating someone based off their fucker papa. I I have deep, deep problems about that.

SPEAKER_03 36:40

Oh man, we we've been talking, we're we're almost running out of time, but I've got to get to this question.

Can Traditionalists Defend Free Speech?

SPEAKER_03 36:44

Got to get to this question. I've got to give you your because you want that you've got a question for me. Um uh can it can a conservative truly support free speech? And let me just qualify this because there are two types of conservatives. There is the conservative that doesn't is not a fan of big st of the big state, um, very um concerned about overreach, uh and and is more probably more on the libertarian side. That person I can see could be a free speech supporter, but someone, dare I say, like yourself, who is a traditionalist, am I wrong? Right or wrong? I'd say so. A Burkean type, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So a traditionalist, uh, a religious. Are there it will you run into limits there? Like, like, is it like what once you had total power, what does the country look like? If you had total power, are you still permissive of the views of say the woke or any or something like that? Like, you know, are we kidding ourselves a little? I'm being harsh. Are we kidding ourselves a little bit when we say that conservatives like that can support free speech?

SPEAKER_02 38:05

Absolute fair. Yeah, great question. And I'll I'll evidence my parameters as well, because when we speak about freedom, when a conservative speaks about freedom, they're not talking about a heavy-duty libertarian style of freedom, which is my mate, my might makes it right. I will take what I want if I can take it. We do have parameters, so a conservative believes that the the excesses of the individual and the excesses of the government need to be restrained. And so that the conservative seeks to have a pullback factor on all of that, and within that realm, let everyone hustle, fight, and and be okay to war as they need to. Now, I was a part of the free speech union for oh, I don't know, I think it was days, days, I think, and it was great, loved it. And I I I have I have absolutely zero negativity about not being able to be a part of it anymore. And that's because of my stance. When I debated with Professor Paul Spoonley in Wellington, he made a comment saying, Well, Elliot, what about uh pedophile? Do you think it's okay for a person to defend pedophilia as a as a okay ideology to bring? And I stated back to him saying, absolutely, as long as I have the right of reply in the same manner. So I can show and tell everyone how devastatingly debased and debauched and disgusting that is, and with reason why. So there are elements of that. Why? Because that's within an adult environment, it's with an environment where you can choose to listen, choose not to listen. So you've you've got that basis of free speech there. I don't have a problem with that.

SPEAKER_03 39:50

Where I do have a we need we need to leap on to these teaching moments as well. Yes. I mean, you'd agree with that. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 39:56

We we need to have these these levels of discourse, they're ob there opportunities, yeah. Because I I find pedophilia disgusting. Uh I don't care what anyone says, is uh it's just utterly wrong. But I want people to feel if they want to bring it out in a discussion, perhaps in the university environment, to bring it down the environment as long as we've got the right to reply to that.

SPEAKER_03 40:16

Of course, of course.

SPEAKER_02 40:17

The other one though, the one where I absolutely have I say no, free speech is not acceptable, is within places of vulnerability, such as children and and other perhaps even neurological, difficult or neuro neurodivergent sort of people. So my issue came in from the drag queen, the drag queens and the drag kings coming in there and speaking to the children of schools and in libraries. The issue that I had was that these are children who are listening to extreme fringe LGBTQIP plus isms of a very sexual and sexualized manner, and performed within a very heavily sexualized costume design. And the that one was I said, no, no, that is not acceptable, as far as I'm concerned, that crosses that boundary of free speech, and that's outside of the universal idea of defamation and you know the old screaming fire in a movie theater type of system. So I think that as conservatives, we are discriminatory to the protection of vulnerable communities. Now, that word vulnerable also does need to have a bit of universality to it. For example, vulnerable, me saying that transgender men and women are not what they say they are or having issues with what they are, they are biological men and women with a psychological condition. That is a very okay thing to say, even though it might be contentious. Why? Because if we get to a certain age that we've as a society agreed is the age of development, we should be able to handle it and to have these discussions. And if it's in contexts that is acceptable, great, thumbs up. But children, no, no. If you're a child, no, that does not come under it. I I that's where my line is very clearly drawn.

Drag Queen Story Time And Public Spaces

SPEAKER_03 42:08

Yeah, yeah, interesting. Well, um, so in in in our defense, so Drag Queen's story time. Now, the issue with Drag Queen's story time was that ultimately we viewed it as a um as basically connected to the whole Lauren Southern and um Stefan Molyneux uh case that that started the free speech coalition at the time. Neutrality in public spaces, right? So this is a public space, some adults want to hire it, some parents want to take their kids to it. Who are we to get involved? Um now if there was a law change and it was made illegal because there was enough evidence to say that there is nudity or um content that is going to be um undoubtedly um uh you know should be restricted, then it's against the law at that point. We're not going to do anything about it. We're not out there say trying to force kids to watch R16 films because the law says it's R16. So, you know, we don't tend to uh we might say we'd like to change that law one day, but but we're not going to you know take a we could never have we could never have made a decision and and take taken a passive role and saying, well, we'd like a law to be passed to ban this. So we're not going to be, you know. But people on the border had many different opinions on it too. My issue was personally, I can only speak for me here. A lot of people had seen a lot of um really disturbing content in the US on Facebook and everything, and that was enough for them. But they just did not we didn't have any evidence. There were there's No real evidence that this was happening here. From what we knew, they were these drug performers were just reading books to these children. So that was one thing. But the other thing, and this is something for religious people to consider too if a parent wants to take their kids to a show like that because they think it's gonna make their kid more accepting of difference and things like that, and it's not illegal, who are we to get in the way? Because trust me, there are plenty of people out there that would say that the fact that my children were the circumcised, um, you know, uh go go to a synagogue that uh that is has Zionist rhetoric, if they could if they could, they'd disallow that. They would disallow that. So so sorry, let me finish. Um so there's there's a concern there, man, because the thing is, and this is the problem of free speech or censorship, once you open the door to telling these parents what they can do, that door is ajar now. And once that door's ajar, they could very easily slip through it and then say you can't take your kids to church anymore in 30 years' time, in 20 years' time. Who knows? We just don't know the way the political winds are gonna blow. So, as tough as it can be, you know, you wouldn't do it. I wouldn't necessarily do it. One of the reasons why I would never take my kids to something like that is because I don't believe kids need to be taught um acceptance. It's adults that need to be taught acceptance. Kids accept anybody. So I don't buy the whole thing of like, I gotta put them in front of this, I gotta take them to pride parades or else they'll they're gonna be homophobic. No, I don't believe that at all. You know, that this is some if if an adult might might need that, I don't believe a kid does. Kids aren't like that, they'll accept anyone, their kids aren't racist, you know. They might say to the little brown boy, oh, you look like a chocolate bar, but they're not they're not saying that because they're racist, you know, they're just making a blith, you know, kids are like that. So um, yeah, but that that would be that would be something I I would I would say that especially the religious need to be a little careful of. It's like once you're telling other parents who they can and can't take, you know, to various shows, then you know, that that could come back to bite them. But to prove that these things are super inappropriate, then you know, take it to a minister and try to get the law changed. If that's if you honestly believe that that's what's happening and and and feel you have the receipts, you know, that that's people people can lobby the way we lobby. Yeah. But um, yeah, so this is that would be my defense.

SPEAKER_02 47:12

My yeah, my my part on that one would be then they should have bought their own higher edge studio and not utilize a public land for it, something which ratepayers fund and taxpayers fund, especially when it's quite offensive to the sensibilities of a vast majority of the crew.

SPEAKER_03 47:28

Yeah, but but but but but weren't weren't uh Stefan Molyneux and um Lawrence Southern are the same. I mean, they're they're gonna offend a lot of people.

SPEAKER_02 47:35

Obviously, that that goes actually to my point, which is Stefan Molyneux and Lawrence Southern, they had a contract where they could speak out and they were uh had the bully veto placed upon them. And so you had on one hand, you had uh the mayor full golf say, nah, not in our areas, which was quite shocking because and it is because it wasn't targeted towards children, it was targeted towards people who could choose to be a part of it and listen in. But they all had age of consent, they had reason, and as a society, we deemed that everyone who was going to go to those people had a reasonable sensibility with them. Whereas if it was uh if it's a drag queen king, drag queen system, it it was being aimed and targeted towards children. Those were the specifics of it. All the paraphernalia was about it, the advertising was about it, the uh uh marketing was also strongly for it as well. The other one that I would say is what we did see during those times with drag queen, draging, and it still happens now, they try to push it through different areas, but in sneaky ways, uh, what we did see within that was a guy called Shanil Lau, who of course went after the Christians in their very churches and their homes and pushing the what was it, the gay conversion bill, I think it was called, which became which is now law. So if someone, if a young person perceives that they are having same-sex struggles, and they go to a priest or a pastor and says, Hey, could you pray for me because I'm having same-sex struggles? And if that pastor then prays for them, it is within the scope of the law that they could be found guilty of that within the church or indeed within the home on the dinner table. I I think they I think one of the adjectives of it was the dinner table bill, something like that, uh, where if a young person has an emotional outburst of it, then a the the parent or the priest or the pastor or a psychologist or a psychiatrist can be found guilty under that particular act.

SPEAKER_03 49:36

I tell you what's uh ironic about that, because I've spoken to Bob McCrosky about CrossCrew about it. Um uh Georgina Bayer, who I befriended, uh, did not believe that any medical intervention should happen for young people. And uh she said she would have spoken to thousands of parents in her life about this.

SPEAKER_02 49:56

And she would be found guilty or something. She would be found guilty.

SPEAKER_03 49:59

No, no, that's that's yeah, but that's yeah, that is a concern because I think I think that the human rights commission was given like they had two million dollars to find they found one case of of conversion therapy 10 years ago or something like that.

SPEAKER_02 50:17

Uh HRCD's abolishment.

SPEAKER_03 50:19

Yeah, well, yeah, yeah, it's problematic. But but the but the issue, the issue there, and this is and this isn't, I don't believe it's doing the trans movement any favors. Um I hate calling it a movement as well. They're individuals. I'll call it a movement. But it shouldn't be a movement. It should be individuals who are making individual choices about the where they want to live as adults. But but the the issue with um where I think it's damaging them is that you know a character like Chanelau views censorship as a tool to get what he wants. Um and and that's only gonna create a backlash.

SPEAKER_02 51:01

Yeah. I I'm gonna push back actually on something you've just said, which is that we should allow the these uh that the trans individuals themselves should be allowed to live the lives that they want. Now, once they're adults out of out of our hands, I think out of our hands, you know, do do whatever.

SPEAKER_03 51:18

Oh no, no, that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_02 51:20

Yeah. But uh, but what I mean is is I do not believe that the issue that they have with their own bodies is of because I I've seen that that gender identity identity disorder slash dysphoria, which it used to be called, it really was a more accurate statement, which is I hate my body so much. I have so many issues with my body, and it seems that this crew over here that we're calling men or we're calling women, that it is better for me to go over here because it's it will it will help to ease my my anguish over my own body dysmorphia. That's what we've seen. And I've worked with plenty of transgender kids over my years, and the studies have shown that if they get decent counseling, over nine over 95% come to be all accepting of the gender that they are growing up with. And so when we when we say you should be able to live the life that you want, well, uh when I say that the adults are so we we hands off, I don't even mean it in a decent way. I just mean that, well, I can't do anything. You've got to make that choice or not. And the deep the stories of detransition is is so is heartbreaking when they s when they realize they've been sold a lie when they were 14, 15, 16, 17. And so again, it goes back to how our fixes and the way that we the way that we ascertain certain parts of someone growing up as a youth, if we get it wrong, we've now got them on a pathway where when they do become adults, what they say they want in their true south and their authentic lives and their truth and all that is in a form a a disservice that we've done in their youth because it's just tracked on through.

SPEAKER_03 53:05

Yeah, I mean, I'm not I'm not disagreeing. Like, I I I mean the the irony too is that all the way I view this topic has been influenced completely by Georgina Bayer. Completely. Everything I say is what Georgina said to me, really. I was convinced, I was one over. I was like, oh, okay, yeah. And and her whole thing is, yeah, not not for kids because most of them would would grow out of it. And she talked about that study. That study started in like the early 70s or late 60s.

SPEAKER_02 53:35

Oh, the long June one, nice.

SPEAKER_03 53:36

Yeah, it's been it's been done for a while, yeah, and it's around 80%. Well will will um will return to their original, you know, will if they're if they're young, we'll will return to their original gender and and um and just they may be gay or something like that, but they but yeah, a lot of them don't don't stay with it, um, which is a real concern. But the problem is censorship.

Trans Debate Censorship And Policy Fallout

SPEAKER_03 54:02

And who does censorship hurt here? Does it ultimately hurt Elliot Ecolay? Does it ultimately hurt Dangerot? It ultimately hurts the the the young people who are involved in this. It even hurts adult trans people because if we can't talk about it at all, if society can't, if it if the whole thing is completely shut down, we're never gonna get good policy. Yeah, we're never gonna get good health policy or anything like that. Well, so the victims really, I mean, you know, you and I can walk away from this at any time, you know. They can't. And some of these decisions, the the tires haven't been kicked on, uh, mean that an adult trans person can can be caught out with a health system that's not going to look after them because it's it's it hasn't really been tested. No one's been able to talk about it, challenge it, make it better.

SPEAKER_02 55:00

Yep. Well said. Well said. How many trans, how many trans adults were aware before they transitioned that their the the the vagina, the fake vagina, is actually a wound that needs to be continuously uh cut every single day? How many do do they know that they've got to have skin graphs ongoing? How many know that they're that pills it for the life? How many Tavistock, Tavistock is a good example of where censorship has had such a detrimental effect on the lives of thousands, actually. Thousands. I mean, right now there's a class action suit with well over 2,000 families who are now put together to attack or to I think it's sue or their equivalent of suing the NHS. New Zealand, yeah, New Zealand needs to do a lot more in terms of having the information, as you say, being able to speak about these things, speak about everything.

SPEAKER_03 55:56

Look, uh, yeah, I mean, my can my concern, and a lot of the haters aren't going to believe this, but my concern is that this is something that ultimately will hurt is is hurting them more than anyone else. Um, because you you cannot get good policy if you cannot have discussions. You're never gonna get the right policy, you're never gonna get it right. You're never, you know, um all the hey, have you thought of this? If if if none of that stuff's allowed, if it's like, oh, you know, well, I've thought of it, but I can't say anything because I'll lose my job, then who ultimately suffers from that? You know, that so that's the thing with censorship. And the other thing is that if you are uh roaming around trying to get everyone censored and banned, it's just creating so much ill will towards your community. And and you know, right or wrong, you know, it's like let's say wrong, it doesn't matter if the ill will is there, it's there. If it was arrived at uh badly, you know, with with you know, contemptuously, and it shouldn't have been, it does it. Let you gotta let people speak. Yep, yeah, you know, because again, like I don't want to be the Jewish community cannot be associated with censorship that will hurt us. People, people will I mean Bondo's a good example. Everyone straight away, the Jews want to silence us. First thing they said, and this is meant to protect us, and the first thing they were saying is the Jews want to silence us. So, yeah, I mean it's like a minority, you know, the free speech union's trying to save a lot of these people from themselves in many ways, man. Yeah. But but oh you talk, you talk?

SPEAKER_02 57:48

No, I I had a question, but it's a naughty question because it just popped, it just popped in my head. I'm not good at naughty questions. Okay, and I don't quite remember, but I think in New Zealand uh speakers have been stopped from coming here if they hold views that say that's uh uh anti-anti-Holocaust, or or the ones where they say Holocaust didn't really happen, it

Holocaust Denial As A Teaching Moment

SPEAKER_02 58:17

was a Zionist lie or Jewish lie, whatever. But the I do know in some countries, I don't know whether New Zealand's one of them, but I do know that if you come to New Zealand or come to another country and your very push is to say there was no Holocaust, it was just nonsense, some mythic uh conspiracy theory, then that's not allowed. And I'm curious as to what your take would be on that, especially as a Jewish person and the free speech context.

SPEAKER_03 58:46

Uh oh yeah, I I I got an answer there. Uh David Irving wanted to come over. I don't think he did end up coming over in the end.

SPEAKER_02 58:53

He didn't, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 58:53

Yep. The Green Party at the time, Keith Locke, uh and Namdor and all those guys, that era, wanted him to come in. Free speech. Because these are these were older lefties. So the old lefties were all free speech. When it's offensive, we know that, but he should be allowed in free speech. Because if you can ban him, eventually you know, you've opened that door once again to censorship. Now, Holocaust uh education is not in a great place. It's not in a great place. So once again, this to me would be a teaching opportunity. We can't trust these matters to be settled. It's settled. I don't want to discuss it. No, these things do flare up again and again. The anti-Semitism we're seeing now is the anti-Semitism we've seen before. It's got a slightly different complexion to it, but it's very familiar. Here we go again. But you got to, because in a free speech society, nothing is ever settled as well. Well, you know, because uh people can just start talking at any time. So I as wearying as it is for for many people, no, we've got to get back in the trenches when this stuff happens. But no, we bring them out here and we we debate them. And and we we show them why and how they're wrong. You know? I think I think that's that's what you do. So no, I would I would defend a Holocaust denier coming here. I know a lot of people in the community wouldn't like me doing that. Yeah, many would understand why I was doing that. Many would understand why I was doing that because you know, as soon as you say, Oh, yeah, oh yay, we successfully banned this guy. Well, it's like, well, why did why do they want to ban him?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:47

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:47

Yeah, oh that's interesting. Yeah, he must have had a bit of truth, you know. He was gonna shame them and that they didn't want the debate, you know. Because that's when the woke don't want to debate, you and I straight away think, oh straight to it. Yeah, they just think their word we're gonna waste them.

unknown 1:01:04

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:05

You know, that's what we think. So why wouldn't the other side think that? So no, no, bring them in, uh, make it a teaching moment, take the opportunity.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:14

Totally agree, totally agree.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:16

That's that's what you've got to do. So it's not an audio question. Nice try. You've got to

Takanini Ground Game And Farewell

SPEAKER_03 1:01:26

yeah. Oh man, we've been talking for ages, but I I still gotta, I still gotta ask you, like, you know, tuck a nineny, like what's your what's your ground game, man? Well, what who are you going after? Because it's it's a it's a complex seat, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:38

Yeah, very complex. Yeah, it's very viciously, it's gonna be very viciously fought over. Uh, if you're talking about demographics, the age is pretty middle of the road. So it's not like Yang Young, which is, for example, in the uh Manilewa electorate or the Margit electorate. So it's very middle of the road. A lot of families, a lot of families, some areas very strongly in terms of racial or ethnic uh composition, very strongly uh Indian in the Flatbush Ormiston areas, and then you've got other areas which are your older Oh yeah, so you went down to the back of uh Ultara as well. Uh well, it it so it crosses from Ormerson Flatbush, then it wends its way down into Tuckanny proper, and then it ends up at uh Wattle Downs by the Golf Court.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:22

It's a weird shape for an adventure.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:25

Yeah, it's weird. It's a weird, it's this weird.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:27

It's just a sneaky go voice, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:30

Yeah, it's crazy. Um but but I it's gonna be fun as I reckon. And I can't wait to see because you've got yeah, like I said, Labour National, they are they are gonna be having hefty fights in terms of that electorate process, the candidate process, they're gonna go viciously. And you'll have a breakfast.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:47

You're gonna bust through the middle of the room. I'm gonna go right now, yeah. Bump them off, bump pretty much pretty much. Oh, well, you look, you got the personality for it, brother. You know that. So you know, just knock on those doors, shake those hands, shake shake every hand in Tuck and he man. Boom, yeah, shake, shake both of them, shake both hands, very good. Due diligence. That's how Nikki K beat um uh uh Juvith Tizzard. And that's right. Yeah, that's right. You know, she shook every hand, rest in peace. You know, she was a good um uh yeah, rest in peace, definitely. Yeah, good, good MP there. She shook every hand, she did the work. She did the work, yeah. But oh, you're the man, dude. So all all the best for all of that. And uh it's been lovely talking to you, bro. And we'll we'll get you back on, maybe get you on a on a panel. Maybe have a bit of a hearty uh discussion, and we can have a good chat around the world with other people as well on the podcast. Because sometimes we can episode three, yeah. That'll be awesome.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:47

No, love it, love it.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:48

Thank you for listening to Free2Speak. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and consider sharing the podcast with others. We release new episodes regularly, and subscribing is the easiest way to stay up to date. If you have any questions, feedback, or suggestions, you can contact us at podcast at fsu.nz. If you want to find out more about the New Zealand Free Speech Union, visit fsu.nzigu.