Corina Shields: Independent Media and the Stories Nobody Covers

Corina Shields returns to Free to Speak. As producer of Shubz Says So, she helped build one of the most talked about shows on independent New Zealand radio. Then she walked away from the station that carried it, and tells Dane Giraud why.

Shields gives her account of the arrangement behind the show. On her telling, the pay was always going to come from advertising, ownership of a stake in the station was discussed from the first meeting, and neither materialised. Radio Aotearoa owner George Ngatai has said publicly that she and Wikeepa were volunteers. Shields rejects that, and answers his claim that the release of private messages amounted to extortion. Those messages showed Ngatai approaching other parties while seeking New Zealand First selection. He acknowledged the contact and stood down as a candidate in August.

The wider argument is about who gets covered. Shields makes the case that mainstream outlets have no interest in disputes like hers, and that independent voices are the only ones telling those stories. She also talks about the pushback she gets from within Māori media and politics, and what three years of having a public voice has taught her.

Free to Speak is the official podcast of the New Zealand Free Speech Union. Uncensored conversations on free speech, civil liberties, and the people defending them. Hosted by Dane Giraud.

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Transcript

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Intro

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Free to Speak, the New Zealand Free Speech Union podcast. If you enjoy the show, subscribe for uncensored conversations and free speech news from New Zealand and beyond.

SPEAKER_02 0:11

Kyoda, and welcome to Free to Speak, the official podcast of the New Zealand Free Speech Union. I am your host today, Dane Giroud, a council member of the Free Speech Union, and joining us as guest, return guest, is Karina Shields. What would I call you? A producer now?

SPEAKER_01 0:29

Yeah, still a

Saying what others are too scared to say

SPEAKER_01 0:30

producer. Just like the last time. Yeah, yeah, just like the last time you interviewed me.

SPEAKER_02 0:35

Great. So look, your your last podcast was very, very popular. You got a lot of love out there. There's a lot of people that that that love them, some Karina Shields.

SPEAKER_01 0:47

Yeah, it it's always um a little bit mind-blowing when I see some of the stats on interviews that I do say. We're just saying things that other people want to

Shubz Says So and Radio Aotearoa

SPEAKER_01 1:00

say, but are sometimes too scared to say. That's all it is.

SPEAKER_02 1:03

No, no, well put it. That's exactly what it is. I can I can see that. Um, so now last time you were on, uh, you had an exciting new venture that was just kicking off. Shab says so on Radio Auter. Now, Radio Altero is an independent um radio station based, it's it's based out of South Auckland, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 1:27

Yeah, so it is part of Altea Media, Altero Media, which is owned by George Natai and Ray Winbana, his wife. And so they have stations throughout the country, and one of their bases is out in South Auckland.

SPEAKER_02 1:44

Great, great. Okay, so you were starting this venture. It it went for a few months. It was going very, very well by all accounts. Like, you know, I was featured as a as a guest, as were other colleagues on the Free Speech Union board. Um, it was

Booking the big names

SPEAKER_02 2:00

always very very interesting. I I watch a lot of the content, a lot of the reels. There was some very, I mean, you got some big fish too. You've got David Seymour on a weekly, uh, all sorts of people. Let's just give us a list of of some of the big fish that you sneered.

SPEAKER_01 2:15

So we have had Bob Kedder, we had Pauline Hansen, Hinari O'Keefe is one of the top interviews that I think that we have done. Ron Mark, Alfred Nuttall. We have interviewed people from across the board within communities, politics, and so it's been one heck of a ride getting to meet all of these people. Neil Waka has joined us a few times, and so you know, it was an exciting time during those those few months that we were doing work with Breno Alciro.

SPEAKER_02 2:54

Great, great, and I think I think Hinari O'Keefe might have been uh my contact that I uh shared. Is that

Henare O'Keefe and the documentary

SPEAKER_02 3:00

correct?

SPEAKER_01 3:00

It absolutely. And so, you know, he is a very knowledgeable man, he's very community-minded, fano-minded, and it was cool to hear him pull some stuff out of Shubs because I'm used to Shubs interviewing people, but for Hinade to be able to pull some things out of Shubs and talk about his childhood and what life was like for him growing up, that was a very cool interview for me.

SPEAKER_02 3:26

I got a story for you on Hinade. Uh, so Hinade O'Keefe is a community worker based in Flaxmere, which is sort of considered, yeah, he might not like me saying this, but it's kind of the hood of uh Hastings. But you know, he's been doing a hell of a lot of work to turn that around and has been getting really good results, so that's awesome. Um, I did a I did a I met him through a documentary I directed on him uh and his life and his advocacy way back in about 211 or something like that. It was a little while ago now. And I mean, this is a guy that he's so sweet. Uh him and his late wife uh Pam, who was a who was there when when we filmed, so I got to meet her, uh wonderful woman as well. They had like hundreds of foster kids over their time. Um quite an incredible story, and that featured in the documentary. But it was a small crew of us. We had a um uh like a training Maori director as well, and I was directing with him. Uh, and Henneday made us cry every single one of the crew, big ugly men, probably about four times in that shoot, just through his stories. We're like, can't whoa, like he was he is just so full of emotion and just in heart, like he's just an incredible guy, you know.

SPEAKER_01 4:52

Yeah, and one of the stories that he told during his interview with Shubs, I went back to the bro later and I was like, he reminded me a lot of my mother. She used to just throw things up in the air and let fate decide, and we pulled through quite a few times just by throwing it up in the air. And so I'm just like, you know what? That that's the cool part of it is that we get to have these conversations with people, we get to hear their points of view, and it's not a narrative. That that's the thing that a lot of people don't understand is we don't run a narrative, we allow

Why the arrangement broke down

SPEAKER_01 5:30

people to talk about what they're bringing to the table. And so it it's an exciting time.

SPEAKER_02 5:36

Yeah, yeah. Or was or was. Okay, so now now we'll get to that. So you're not on Radio Altero anymore. What happened?

SPEAKER_01 5:49

Basically, it hit the fan. It definitely hit the fan. The beef was we weren't getting any money. And so he was asking them about getting some money to help pay his rent. Understandably. And we had always been told from the very beginning that yes, advertising would be where we got money, but then there was also the sponsorship stuff, and then once those ratings improved, then we could do surveys, and then we could pull wages from there as well, and we weren't getting follow-up on

What was promised

SPEAKER_01 6:30

any of the things that had been said to us. Ownership was definitely discussed from the very first meeting, and so that meeting took place out at the station, and ownership was definitely mentioned because George was talking about how he had sacked his son from the morning show, and he wanted to look towards the future because he was always planning for the future. It was that Shubs was going to go into that morning slot. I would take that afternoon drive slot, and later on down the line, we would be looking at ownership of the station. And so we were fine with getting the money off the advertising because what we were sold around that whole thing was that the advertising money was there. This person had made um $10,000, $15,000 in two weeks. And so we we went with the, yeah, okay, we'll get paid through advertising initially.

SPEAKER_02 7:31

So so so when you say ownership of the station, shares in the station, is that what he's saying? Like actually having a stake in the actual station. Yes. Yeah, yeah. Like so, so not the whole station, just a stake in it. Yeah, yeah. So you're you're partnering because you know you're putting in sweat equity at this point, which you know basically means um, you know, you're working for nothing, but but it's a commercial venture, isn't it? Like George is it's not a charity, is it? George is making money off this.

SPEAKER_01 8:03

It is a registered business. LTLOR Media is a registered business.

SPEAKER_02 8:08

It's a business that sells advertising. He's got Shubs doing a popular show. You need uh a lot of um praise for the the talent that you were able to secure for that show because it's not that easy. So you must have a real good way with people to bring them on the show. So you've got David Seymour, you got you got people

The volunteer question

SPEAKER_02 8:30

in the government now, party leaders on his show. You're bringing a lot of new audience and everything, and he has promised money, but it just hasn't eventuated.

SPEAKER_01 8:44

It hasn't eventuated, and to say that we're volunteers, I'm not buying that either.

SPEAKER_02 8:50

Yeah, okay. Well, so so let's get that on the table now, because we we're getting it all on the table now. So a vol so his defense, and I I saw him on the Sean Plunkett uh interview on the platform, which were rather an unfortunate one. Apparently, he asked for that interview. Yeah, which which I don't think was very smart, but anyway, that's okay, that's on him. Um his defense was that you and Shubs were always volunteers. Why is that wrong?

SPEAKER_01 9:21

That's wrong because that's not words that he ever said to us when we were having conversations about starting the show. What he said was, come on, do the show, and you will get paid through the advertising. Initially paid through the advertising deals that you were able to bring in. And then we will look at the rate the wage from doing the radio survey and getting ratings up. And so after the first two weeks, I was told that the ratings went from 0.8 to 1.4. And so it seems to me like we were just being used. But not once in the conversations that we had before we started the show did George say that we were volunteers. He said we would get paid through advertising and then through the sponsorship and things from the ratings.

SPEAKER_02 10:11

Well, the interesting thing with using the term volunteers, it's like if it was a charity that that term works, but this is his business. So you're volunteering to make him money, but not yourself. And when you want money, he gets upset about it. You don't normally volunteer to make to grow someone else's business and literally work for them, like like be a DJ for two or three hours a night and not see anything from it. We we we know what an intern is. An intern uh can can work at a station like that for a month or whatever, and however long it is, probably not that long, but they'll they'll they'll work there and just get experience because they're green and they're just getting their experience. But the idea that you're volunteering when you're literally uh bringing people like David Seymour and these big fish to a radio show, which becomes popular and the ratings are growing over there, it's not a volunteer. That's not a volunteer. That's not the way it does. Well, put it this way if you think it's a volunteer and you're the boss, you are not a very pleasant man. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_01 11:23

The other thing is so yeah, like he's trying to tell people that we were volunteers for the four to seven show. If that's the case, then why did they start up uh radio outside or a YouTube channel after the show started? Why did they start rebooting the website? Why did George start doing things for a magazine, a magazine that I was putting the transcripts together for, so that we could put the magazine together? Never once did we talk about me being a volunteer to put a magazine together. Yet that was stuff that I was doing because I was doing it under the assumption that we were investing into something that would pay off later on down the track in terms of the shares in the company. You don't invest as much time and effort into building what we built over those few months if you aren't expecting some kind of return. There's absolutely no way you invest that much time and energy into it.

SPEAKER_02 12:26

No, no, I'll be honest with you. Like I've uh when I was a

Sweat equity and the promise of shares

SPEAKER_02 12:30

lot younger, um uh and I was starting out as a writer and and and putting together packages of TV shows and and and film scripts, and and I wasn't that um, I wasn't that good yet. You know, I hadn't found my voice or anything like that. So it was I was at that beginning stage. Um I I bumped into a few producers who had that same attitude. It's like, you do this for me, down the track, you're gonna get all these shares, you're getting two points of this, two points of that. It's monopoly money, really. It's monopoly money, you know, like the the whole shares thing is uh nah, pay me. Pay me. I need money. It's it's like yeah, you're not gonna retire off a share and yeah, I mean, because the shares he would have given you would have been pretty limited anyway, even if he went there. But it it sounds like he probably didn't really have any intention of ever doing that, you know. So so who is George Nartai? Because there's a political dimension to this, and you guys did

Who George Ngatai is

SPEAKER_02 13:30

get your own back, um and and sort of escalated, and things went to the next level. So let's like set up who the man is, and then what happened beyond that, and and how the the SHIT hit the fact.

SPEAKER_01 13:44

So George Nartai is actually Shubs' uncle, and that was another one of the reasons why we did what we did, is because Farno.

SPEAKER_02 13:55

I didn't know that. I didn't know that. So the plot is thickening every yeah, every couple every 10 seconds. Yeah, every 10 seconds the plot is thickening. Yep, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:06

And so he is Phenonga of Shubs, and so that was another reason why we did it, because you you're supposed to believe in your fano, right? Farno is supposed to be to have your back.

SPEAKER_02 14:17

You think you're insane?

SPEAKER_01 14:18

Because your fano is supposed to have your back, and so that didn't pan out at all. But George Nartai is a wannabe politician, he and his wife own a number of different ventures, including Coffee Club, uh, New Zealand Post, Kiwi Bank, Speedy Signs, Altier Media, uh, the Farn Auto Clinic, and child care centers. And so he has his finger in many, many prize.

SPEAKER_02 14:48

So he's got so he's at least got shares in all of these different interests.

SPEAKER_01 14:53

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 14:54

So so I mean, that's a pretty busy businessman. He'd have a pretty good revenue, wouldn't he, to keep all that happening?

SPEAKER_01 15:02

Well, one would think so. Plus, there's also the Moldy Council, he sits on a number of boards as well. And so boards are generally, even if it's a stipend, paying positions. And so I can't imagine him being short of money, especially when all of this stuff started coming out online. He was posting about a new a new business venture with a power company. And I'm like, so where did that money come from? How can you not have money for what we're doing for your fortune?

SPEAKER_02 15:37

For the people working in your business, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:39

Yeah, yeah. How can everyone just be volunteers when you've got all of this money and you've got all of these business ventures going on?

SPEAKER_02 15:48

No, no, yeah. I mean, that's that, yeah. So, okay, so want to be politicians, so this is where things get quite uh interesting. So, so what what what happens? Because you guys end up um

The party approaches become public

SPEAKER_02 16:00

uh well, I don't know whether it was you, maybe this is just a Shubs thing, so but you can talk us through it, but you kind of do get your own back a bit, don't you?

SPEAKER_01 16:08

Yeah, so we all knew that George was trying to get into New Zealand first. And he came back to our group chat, said that they were going through some processes because he had initially had been declined. And so Chubbs had had that conversation about um New Zealand First taking him on. I didn't know until after the fact that Schubbs had also talked to Kule Wong and David Seymour on behalf of George about trying to set set him up in case the New Zealand First thing fell through. And so I was oblivious to all of these goings on. And so when Shubbs started putting stuff online, well, number one, I didn't know that he was putting these videos out about George and Raywan when, you know, it all hit the fan, but I also didn't know some of the things that he had said in those videos. And so I'm just like, wow, wow, this this explains why he's so upset with them because he's going out on a limb to try and you know grow grow their station, get help George where he can, and he's getting nothing back from them, not even a how are you.

SPEAKER_02 17:29

But but it's it's actually a bit darker than that, even when from George's perspective, because what seems to be happening is he's saying he's he's he's interested in top, he's interested in act, he's interested in New Zealand First. I mean, principal isn't really coming into this, is it? Like he just wants to be a politician and he'll do whatever and say whatever to be in the right party. I mean, is that I mean, he may have had a preference in a perfect world, but at the end of the day, I mean, it's kind of I don't know if it's rare or not.

SPEAKER_01 18:03

The values between top and New Zealand First, though, are so different that how can like I can understand perhaps act a little bit more in alignment with New Zealand First, but a little bit, a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 18:18

I mean, they they are I mean on some things, but they're way more different probably than people factor in. But yep, no, no, fair enough.

SPEAKER_01 18:26

Yep, yeah, but definitely they're more similar than top. And so to be asking about a conversation with top as well when you're trying to go to New Zealand first, that doesn't make sense because yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:40

No, the the guy just wants to what's the what's the painter and wants to be in the you know in the headlines and the whatever party will take him, he'll he'll go with it. He probably would have gone with Labour if they'd tapped him on the shoulder. He probably would have done gone with any of these people, like and that that's that's not really don't know him personally, but probably not really the politician we want.

SPEAKER_01 19:05

Definitely not the politician we want.

SPEAKER_02 19:08

No, no, no, you know, because it that's all about yeah, what's in it for me, you know?

SPEAKER_01 19:13

Yeah, yeah, definitely what's in it for him. And for me, a lot of it come down to their lack of communication. I was having to follow things up way too many times in order for us to keep things going. I was trying to push for meetings and and trying to keep that middle ground between everybody, and it just still blew up any anyway. No, I saw sorry, what was that?

SPEAKER_02 19:42

Sorry, I was gonna say the blow-up was came when Shubbs made all of these all of these messages and information on him trying to get into these various parties public.

SPEAKER_01 19:56

Yeah.

unknown 19:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:57

Yeah. He made that all public

The fallout

SPEAKER_01 20:00

and it has just hit the fan. And ever since it hit the fan, I've seen George and Raewin both try and play themselves off as being the victims or the good guys in the situation. And I've seen the back and forth, then I'm just like, people forget that I was part of this too. No, they look at Shubbs because he was the voice of Shubbs says so in the face of the show, but they forget that I was part of the conversations, that I was behind the scenes, and so they don't have that other perspective besides what George is trying to portray and what Shubbs is saying. And that's why when you asked, Will I come on? I'm like, Yes, because for me, I think my my say on these matters matters as well. No, people need to hear these things that have been said.

SPEAKER_02 20:55

100%. So he makes a very explosive

Answering the extortion claim

SPEAKER_02 21:01

allegation against you guys. He frames what happened with the release of those messages as an extortion attempt. Now, that isn't right, is it? I mean, it's not it wasn't about extortion. You just wanted what you were promised, correct?

SPEAKER_01 21:17

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, basically. That's all it was, is that Shovs wanted us to be paid for what we had done. At the very minimum, we have lost wages, we have lost pay because of George and Raywin not having the infrastructure in place for us to get paid off the advertisers that we had ready and waiting to go. And so when you're having to wait nearly three months just to get the onboarding process, we lost potential advertisers in that time. That's lost earnings that we could have had in our pocket. And so that's where the big issue is for me is how many deals have they lost us? How much money.

The Platform interview

SPEAKER_01 22:00

have they lost us because they're so busy with all their other businesses that they've they've dropped the ball.

SPEAKER_02 22:09

Well so after this after these messages get released uh George uh I think makes the wrong move on the chessboard he he he contacts Sean Plunkett doesn't he? He contacts him yes he contacted Sean yeah he contacted Sean and said I'd like an interview to clear the air on this or or to set the record straight. So he he does that now there's two reasons why things go so poorly there.

SPEAKER_01 22:42

The first one is that he never knew what so I knew from the get go that that was going to be a bad interview. Shubbs contacted me that morning and it's like the platform want me to go on at five past nine and we already knew on Thursday night that George was going on the next morning at nine o'clock and I'm like okay the are they pulling you online like what what's the deal here? He goes they must be because George is on at nine I'm like okay and so I already knew it was going to be a bad idea because I knew that George had owed Sean money. I saw Sean a couple of months ago at headquarters and Sean told me that night and so when I heard that George asked for the interview with Sean and that Shubbs was going on I'm like oh this is going to be bad.

SPEAKER_02 23:42

Suicidal because George doesn't know Shubbs is going to be on no does he? No so it's it's so there's a moment in the interview where he goes well you can tell Shubbs right now if you want we've got Shubs on the line oh oh really so he didn't know that and this is something Sean has done before so he should have known the ambush is right up Sean's alley he should have known there might have been a little surprise in there and but the other thing is he owed Sean money.

SPEAKER_01 24:12

Yeah like you say so it so he's going in there to say oh it's all bullshit you know there were volunteers I don't know them anything to to an interviewer who he owes money to for something actually very similar because uh the the the the platform had been similar on um oh Tedo radio and again and he wasn't getting he wasn't getting any of that advertising promised correct yeah yeah exactly the same yeah yeah exactly and so I knew before George even went on there that it was going to be a bad idea because I know what Sean is like when he interviews I know that he does the ambush and I knew that he was going to throw it back in George's face about the money that he owes George. And so I was waiting for it. I was waiting for it so that I could screen record

The stories mainstream media will not cover

SPEAKER_01 25:00

it because I wanted to capture the whole thing and it went exactly as I thought it was going to go and it was hilarious and it was really bad for George.

SPEAKER_02 25:10

Now the interesting thing about this whole episode we'll get to the the next chapter what what's going to happen now with you guys and the new show we'll move on from George but just as we finish up on him my thing is that this now there's plenty of businessmen like George out there. Right? We know that there was there's no media site in the land that was going to cover something like this. Like if Chubbs had gone to stuff and then just called them up and said this is what happened to me here's a story they're not going to be interested so all of these interesting stories about uh corruption and and you know some rogue sort of characters out south or whatever and as I know there are many out there uh they don't get those stories never get told so this is this is what Shubbs was bringing and and and what he can continue to bring now on on the Herald article I made a post saying basically saying exactly that got about 400 likes for it a lot of people giving me crap as well but I was like you know who else is telling the stories of these shady characters on struggle street like no one is doing that you know like there is a and this is where the free speech aspect comes into it people the the media is really interested in a certain class up it might tell sad stories about you know people sleeping in cars and things like that but that's mainly to to to pressure the government that they don't like that they're not they're not really going to talk about that businessman who's a bit shady and all that kind of stuff unless it really went to court and there was some they're not going to investigate that they're not interested in what happens on Struggle Street. They're not interested in that at all it's like it's a middle class upper middle class project. These stories don't get told there is a huge gap out there and people like Shubbs can fill that and people like yourself can fill that gap you can tell these stories you know what I mean so and and as you know well I'm not telling you nothing you don't know. So that so I'm cracking up on at that Sean interview but a part of me is like I'm

Going independent

SPEAKER_02 27:30

at I I hope there's an a a new new dawn here for Shub says so. So what are the plans?

SPEAKER_01 27:37

Because I you're still on air aren't you but but you're doing it just independently web only at the moment yep so nothing has changed in terms of what we're doing we've just simply removed the radio aspect of it and so we're going to continue streaming out online. We are looking at a number of different um deals already there are things happening in the background which look really exciting in terms of the podcasting space and still continuing to do the show but making things taking things to the next level and so we're starting to hook to a number of different people in different broadcasting spaces business spaces advertisers and just seeing where where it all leads to basically but we do actually want to get to a point where it's not just Shubs doing his own show I need to clone myself so that they can do the producing side of things so that I can go and do my own show. But yeah all in good time.

SPEAKER_02 28:50

All in good time because you're yeah it's a tricky one I mean like you you are fantastic as a as a spokesperson or or as a as a host you know you connect with a lot of different people um uh but um but you're clearly a really talented producer as well you know and I told you that the first time it's like you know being able to secure some of those big fish isn't necessarily easy and the fact that you can do it means that there's a knack there. So it's a hard one. You don't want to sort of lose you know if knowing what you be you're good at both of those things. You know that's the thing.

SPEAKER_01 29:22

Like you're probably equally as good at at being a front person being you know being a voice for many people who who who don't you know who don't have that voice at the moment but also that business side of it and and securing the big fish you know yeah and and that's the difficulty that I think we're gonna have going forward is who do we get to replace me doing some of the stuff because I'm I'm a power person like I like control of things and I like to know what's going on. There needs to be a plan and so even if nobody else knows what the plan is I need to have the plan. And so yeah it's going to be different and it's going to be a little bit of a challenge but I think that we have overcome so much already in terms of the things that Shubs and I have done in spite of people that have tried to stop us in spite of people that constantly want to talk about us that we continuously show people how resilient we are we keep coming back for more and we just get bigger and bigger each time someone tries to

Who wants to silence us

SPEAKER_01 30:30

shut us down for me I can see George has tried to do that talking about who wants to work with shubs when no he wants to extort money out of people no he just wants people to pay their bills okay now the silencing what are people silencing where is the silencing coming from is it uh is it within Mori is it maori silencing other Maori who who are you really upsetting with your commentary both of you guys what what yeah who who are the people that you that you believe are really coming after you left leaning politicians Māori politicians especially don't like us or they're too afraid to admit that they do like Shubs that some of them I do know have had conversations with him but they won't do the show because they're too afraid of what others might think multimedia don't like us Matthew Tukaki is forever on our on our butts about different things always trying to throw things our way about what bad people we are and grifters we are when he's built a career on line his way through life and so multimedia multi politicians especially the left leaning ones there are some really good uh left leaning politicians out there Tony Boynton is one and she's standing in the Waidiki seat she is definitely one of the good ones I don't understand why she's with labor but that's a whole another thing um Muldi academics some of them don't like the things that we say and in general Modi have feelings right we have a lot of feelings so if there is one that doesn't like us then there are others who are going to take on those feelings well you said something about my friend or my sister or whatever and so I I automatically dislike you and so we get that as well yeah that we so so so so you've you've told me who wants to silence you but why what is it about Shubs and yourself I mean it could be some of that stuff that we've just we've just discussed earlier in in the pod but what what do you think they feel like what would Matthew Tukaki fear like is it competition from or

Uncomfortable conversations

SPEAKER_01 33:00

from alternative Mori voices what what exactly what exactly do you think is the the reason behind this there's money to be made in poverty and the worst kind of poverty that there is is poverty of the mind and what Matthew doesn't like is that we can have very realistic conversations with people bring truth to the table and empower people to stop playing the victim to something that was signed 186 years ago. That's what Matthew doesn't like he's made money off of Moldi struggling. And so when we can have these conversations and open people up to the thought that Moldi were colonizing Modi before the white man even got here we were fighting amongst ourselves we were pillaging stealing land and all of these things when we can have those conversations and admit truth people don't like that. On top of that we also talk about the things that happen to children the abuse of children in Karen within Farno people don't like us talking about those topics too because they're uncomfortable as these uncomfortable conversations why they want to shut us down. Because if we can open people up to that uncomfortable conversation then we can start to find solutions to those uncomfortable things that are going on. And if we find solutions to those things then nobody gets paid because there's there's no problems to be solved.

SPEAKER_02 34:33

That's interesting the the counterargument from them would be that and I think we may have even discussed this before you're airing dirty laundry or it's no different with any other group of people some of these allegations um people are going to use the allegations in a cynical way I mean how do you respond to any of that for me it's just reality.

There is no one way to be Māori

SPEAKER_01 35:00

Let's just get real about what is actually going on because moldi are overrepresented in some of the worst stats right we look at the stats that are out there but at the same time you can also turn around and say well they're not just moldy which is something that we hear all too often that moldy aren't just moldy and there's no full blooded moldy left anymore. Okay so then remove the moldy stats and put them in with the Paki and put them in with the Samoans and the Tongans and Asians and everything else. And so for me all it is is let's just get really real about things. Let's admit that not everything was great in the past but we can do better because we know better. Like let's stop subjecting our kids to this victimhood mentality and tell them that they can achieve and they can be anything and they can go on to do anything in the world just like anybody else can. Mori for some reason are treated as if we are all supposed to be united all the time and say the same things and act the same way but anyone who knows anything about Mori knows that we have different happu different dialect different tikanga different color different we have different language so why are we all acting like we're all the same when we're so vastly different stop telling people that they're a waste of their moldy blood just because they don't they're not moldy in the same way that you're moldy there's definitely no one way to be moldy and there seems to be this idea from the left that we just need to be one way and I'm not down for that. Moldy were quite conservative people we used to be more about fano than we are right now. We used to be about grandparents used to look after their Tamariki for the betterment of their Farno now they're having to look their mukapuna sorry but now they're having to look after their mukapuna because parents are cracked out in jail doing all kinds of things that they shouldn't be doing but raising their babies so so and so the solutions that a that that a Willie Jackson or or a Matthew would propose what is your major criticism with what they would would would sort of table as the best way to address any of that stuff well what solutions has Matthew come up with so far? He was on the Oranga Tamariki advisory board he was the chairman of that board what changes have happened within Oranga Tamariki that have stopped children being abused in state care what what solutions does he have to offer because it doesn't seem that he had many to offer when he was being paid for it Willie Jackson he has been part of this Labour government for years and Labour have screwed over Muldi Moldi are the you know Labour are the only ones without a Moldy leader. Why did Willie not step into the role when Jacinda stepped down why did Calvin Davis not step into that role when Jacinda stepped down because they knew that they would be inheriting a shit show.

SPEAKER_02 38:28

And what actual solutions

From a TikTok account to a following

SPEAKER_02 38:30

have they got for uh for our people because it doesn't seem like they have many they talk about Mori all the time but that's what it all seems to be is a whole lot of hooe and not enough doy okay interesting well um so last question for you um now what have you learned personally through having a voice because you started as an ex-account didn't you and then you were well you correct me if I'm wrong and then you got it writing a little bit and and you had some blogs that I was sharing and stuff and uh you you love that process but you've really become someone that people are listening to I mean was that surprising or or or was it even something you you were you set out to to to do and what what have you learned about you know through having a voice because I guess a lot of people probably think that they no one would listen to them even though they've got important things to say but that's not really necessarily the way it's gonna go is it you just gotta you just gotta have a go at it.

SPEAKER_01 39:40

You just gotta have a go at it and so originally I was putting a few posts on Facebook and then I started a TikTok account and I was talking about some of the things that were going on with King Auto at the time and then it could just kind of grew because we hit the pandemic and so COVID came out so I was talking around some of the stats and things with COVID and then I got sent a video that I'd put on TikTok and someone goes your video's on X and I went okay I'll go and check this out and see what the feedback is like and you know because I didn't want anything to do with X at the time and I went and had a look and I was like okay all right maybe I'll just make an account and see what happens from there. And it just so happened that about two months after I started my X account Albert Park happened and I got that video that was seen God knows how many times now and I posted that and overnight I went from a few hundred followers to 10,000 followers and things just blew up from there. It was people more people were watching listening and then I started writing for plain sight and then all of the online bullying and the stalking stuff happened and so I stopped writing for a long time um but you know my articles are still there on the plain sight website you know shout out to you for being my editor through all of that process and so things just kind of grew and then I met Shubs and we went on this whole hiding which led to the radio station and and being a producer but what I've learned is that I can actually do a hell of a lot of things right I I just thought okay I was the stay at home wife mother

What she has learned about having a voice

SPEAKER_01 41:31

type just that was just like being a wife and a mother and then I realized well actually you're pretty good at writing you're pretty good at having conversations with people and you can talk to different people from different backgrounds and and you're pretty good at doing that. But you're also pretty good at pulling together interviews and things and so for me I've learned a lot about myself over the last three years in terms of what I'm capable of doing. There have been quite a few life changes personal life changes as well for me and so it has been one heck of a roller coaster but I don't think is that I would change anything that's happened because all of those experiences have led to where I am right now and I'm pretty bloody happy in life you know despite the radio station stuff I'm pretty happy in life.

SPEAKER_02 42:30

No I think you guys came out of that pretty well it sounds like you were never going to get paid going out on your own you own everything at that point it's it's it's the best way to go in a way in a way uh radio altero it's it's the old model it's an old model like you can live stream a uh a podcast you can get your own advertisers and you're keeping all of the money at that point like that that's really what you want to be doing. It's um I as an old dog in the in the entertainment game um a media game uh I still have that instinct to go the TV quite traditional older route but it's just not a thing anymore. You don't need to do it you just don't need to do it. You don't need people like uh George to to anoint you it's just not the way it used to be the way and he's he's it sounds like he's he's in that old school mindset of well I'm giving you this amazing opportunity where else can you go? The internet's a big place I can go anywhere.

SPEAKER_01 43:34

I can do anything and and that was basically my comment to him it was like you're just trying to think but you watch we will move on to bigger and better things big bigger and better things so so where can people find you now so across shubs live is the show is streamed on all social media platforms and then I have my own social media platforms as

Where to find her

SPEAKER_01 44:00

well auntie hey hey on TikTok and then Karina Shields on X and Facebook and Instagram and and hey is spelled H E I. Yeah H E I I H E I just like the chicken on Moana fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 44:20

I'm sure that people are going to love this and they'll be uh they'll feel good about being um you know caught up on everything that's going on and and be happy to hear that that that you're still plowing ahead and uh you're gonna create some good content for everyone.

SPEAKER_00 44:33

Great thanks for having me Dane always good to chat with you mate thank you for listening to Free2Speak if you enjoyed this episode please subscribe and consider sharing the podcast with others. We release new episodes regularly and subscribing is the easiest way to stay up to date. If you have any questions feedback or suggestions you can contact us at podcast at fsu.nz If you want to find out more about the New Zealand Free Speech Union visit fsu.nz