Pearl Habits with Linda Fogg-Phillips

 Challenge and change are a part of life.  And it's often difficult to find the strength to carry on and keep moving forward. 

In this episode, Linda Fogg-Phillips shares her personal story of resilience and determination.  She faced the triple blow of a family business collapse during the 2008 financial crisis, the heart-wrenching loss of her son Garrett and the death of her husband.  These tragic events eventually led to the creation of the Pearl Habits Method. 

The Pearl Habit Method was created by BJ Fogg Ph.D. and developed by Linda Fogg-Phillips as a way to implement behavior change through small, easy steps. During our interview, you'll hear some of Linda's most successful Pearl Habits.  Pearl Habits are simple. There are two parts: the irritant and the pearl.

Linda Fogg-Phillips has spent more than 30 years studying health behaviors, including nutrition, fitness, and mental health.  She is on a mission to help others live a happier and healthier life.  As the CEO and Co-Founder of the Tiny Habits® Academy, Linda's work focuses on behavior change and habit design.   She is a regular guest lecturer at Stanford University and is a featured family health expert in the media and in publications.

As the mother of eight children, Linda has had her own behavior change and habit design laboratory for more than 40 years. During our interview, Linda and I talk about grief, the power of choice and gratitude.  She always tells her children, "Be better, not bitter."   During tragedy, Linda worked hard to be her 'best self' for her children. 

BIO

Fogg-Phillips has a master’s degree in Health Promotion and Exercise Physiology. She has spent more than 35 years studying health behaviors, including nutrition, fitness, and mental health.  Linda has virtually coached over 15,000 people worldwide.  She is recognized by the American Council on Exercise as an expert in virtual coaching, habit formation and behavior change. She is a contributing author and expert for the ACE Behavior Change Certification Program.

Linda is an international author, public speaker, and consultant. She is the author of two books about understanding the online behavior of adolescents; Facebook for Parents and Facebook for Educators.  Linda is the host of the podcast, Pearl Habits; Creating beauty and positivity from life’s challenges. 

Fogg-Phillips is a featured social media and family health expert in the media and in publications such as the New York Times, CNN, ABC, CBS, Fox and NBC. During 2009 - 2013, Linda was the adolescent behavior expert and online safety consultant for Facebook, Inc. Linda was commissioned by Facebook to write their first Facebook Online Safety Guide for Educators. Linda is a regular guest lecturer at Stanford University.

Find out more about Pearl Habits here.  

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Transcript

Judy Oskam: 0:02

Welcome to Stories of Change and Creativity. I'm Judy Oskam. As a university professor, administrator and former journalist, I love interviewing people who inspire, educate and motivate People like Linda Fogg Phillips. Linda has a story about reinvention, growth and a calling to serve. You'll also learn about Pearl Habits in this interview. Linda is on a mission to help others live a happier and healthier life. She is the CEO and co-founder of the Tiny Habits Academy. Her work focuses on behavior change and habit design and, as the mother of eight children, Linda has had her own behavior change and habit design laboratory in her own home for more than 40 years. Well, Linda does share some of the tragedies and the heartbreaks in her life, but she also tells us how she made it through. I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did .

Linda Fogg-Phillips: 1:06

In the last 15 years. It has been like one change after another, after another after another none of them of which I anticipated or ever thought I'd have to deal with and the first one the first, basically the first domino that tipped, the first shoe that dropped, however you want to refer to. It occurred well, really occurred in 2008. And that's when a lot of things in my world were starting to fall apart. We were home builders here in Las Vegas. Very, very successful home builders had a company for 25 years. Net worth was $30 million. It was a really successful company. Wow. We were a privately owned company, meaning we owned it all. Sure, sure, it was a really successful company. We were a privately owned company, meaning we owned it all.

Linda Fogg-Phillips: 1:46

Sure, many family members my children, my son-in-law and if you look back to those years, that's when the housing recession was really starting to get into full swing and every place in the US started to fall apart. Even public builders that had deep pockets started to fall apart. The little builders that we were really didn't stand a chance, but we fought good and hard and we hung on for quite a while. But 2008, as I look back to that year. That really was the pivotal year for not only struggling financially and struggling with our home building business, but that also was the time that we lost my 20-year-old son to an accidental Oxycontin overdose, and so it just seemed like the world was falling down around my feet. You know, adapting to and my son, his name was Garrett. I have eight children. He was the third of our eight. Just, you know, he really was well and even my kids say he was the golden child and I'm not going to deny that. I'm not going to that.

Linda Fogg-Phillips: 2:46

Yeah, yeah, I'm not going to. All my kids are amazing. I love them all equally, of course, but Garrett was everybody's golden sibling or golden child cause he was just so kind and generous and just so caring and unfortunately, his death really put us all on a tailspin. And this was an unexpected death and the history behind him getting on oxycodone was very tragic. He was a high school athlete and was one of the high school coaches. It was an injury, huh yeah, and his high school coach introduced him to stackable steroids that then led to pain meds that unfortunately, he got addicted to and just could not kick it. So that was a monumental change that took me a while. I don't know. I don't know that you can ever get over that.

Judy Oskam: 3:33

How do you ever get over that ?

Linda Fogg-Phillips: 3:35

You don't, you don't, judy, you don't ever get over the loss of a child. It's something that I had a very wise friend, and I'm going to share this advice because it was really helped me, not just through the loss of Garrett, but subsequently. Three years ago, I lost my husband as well to early onset Alzheimer's. Um, and a friend of mine,Ji m Anderson, told me he said, Linda, people will tell you that time will heal, and this was in in relationship. This was um about three days after Garrett passed and Jim came over to visit us and he said, Linda, people will tell you, time will heal, he says. But don't believe them, that's a lie. All time allows you to do is to learn to live with the pain, and I have found that to be really true. It's true.

Linda Fogg-Phillips: 4:17

Yeah, and having had Jim share that with me, it helped me revise my expectations.

Linda Fogg-Phillips: 4:24

Instead of saying, oh, why aren't I getting over this, or why is this still a problem for me, or why am I still depressed about the loss of my son, I realized that it was going to take some time for me to learn to live with this new reality of mine.

Linda Fogg-Phillips: 4:39

And I will tell you, that journey has been a bittersweet journey, as I'm sure you can imagine. Sure, the first probably three or four years, and so this was about 15 years ago. About the first three or four years, I struggled to function, I truly struggled to function, and I finally got to the point in my life where some of the things that would cause me a lot of pain or sorrow, that would bring back up that wound in my heart the loss of my son I then started to embrace and I didn't realize that the pain that I was feeling was because I loved him. So that was a shift and a change, not so much in mindset but in the allowing time to help me learn how to live in a positive manner in the face of such a negative and difficult situation. Even today it's been this many years. You know I never work on Garrett's birthday and I never work. Or you know I never make plans on his birthday or on what we call his angel day.

Judy Oskam: 5:38

And you guys have a big celebration on that day, don't you ?

Linda Fogg-Phillips: 5:41

Yeah, we always even my kids that live out of town come into town and especially on his angel day, we'll go to his favorite sushi restaurant and we really celebrate his life again, instead of just sort of pushing it aside or ignoring or trying to pretend that never happened, because really reality is it did happen and it did impact all of us. And so the years have allowed me to adapt and start to embrace those feelings of pain, in acknowledgement of the fact that that was unconditional love that I had for my child, and so that was a big shift for me. But in that same year, in 2008, when we started to lose everything losing our home, building business. Eventually we lost our home. We lost our five-acre ranch. We had to file Chapter 7 bankruptcy where we had nothing left because my husband had personally guaranteed a number of land, loans and things. It necessitated a very drastic change of life for us. I had eight horses at that time. I had to either sell or give them away. It's sort of like a fire cell because we had to move out of our home pretty quickly because the bank was taking it back. They wouldn't work with us on it. But everybody I mean not everybody, but that was sort of a common thread that people were losing their homes and losing their properties and losing their businesses right and left, especially people that had anything to do with home building.

Linda Fogg-Phillips: 7:06

I never expected that at that point in time I would need to go back to work or I would need to help support my family, and I did so a little bit hesitantly. You know I was a full-time mom. That's what I love doing with a big family. Yes, yes, my youngest child was 11 at the time and I'd had a charmed really a charmed life up until then. Sure, I had the privilege and the opportunity to stay home with my children. They were in private school, we had a beautiful horse ranch, we did a lot of extracurricular activities around horses and around sports, and I had the freedom and the ability to do that.

Linda Fogg-Phillips: 7:50

So when my world was turned upside down and it's like, wow, I think I need to do something to help support the family because I have a good education, it's like maybe I need to bridge this gap for a little bit until we get back on our feet with home building, I knew it would come back.

Linda Fogg-Phillips: 7:59

My husband was a very, very good entrepreneur, but what I didn't know is that was not God's plan. Yeah, and shortly after that, in 2014, as we were trying to put the pieces back together on many things, you know not just the ramifications of losing my son, but losing our home, building business, needing to move, you know, uproot my children, pull them out of private schools, just you name it everything changed and the bankruptcy just really it was really difficult to go through. It was never in my life that I think that we would need to do that. I was actually, I'll be honest, I was actually pretty upset with my husband for personal and guaranteeing loans, but that's the nature of the business, and so for a little while I had to navigate through that. But then, in 2014, my husband was diagnosed with early onset Alzheimer's at the age of 58.

Judy Oskam: 8:53

Oh, so young.

Linda Fogg-Phillips: 8:55

And then I realized, okay, this is not a temporary situation for me to need to help support my family. This is now going to be my role. And, judy, as I say that and I know there's, you know, a lot of implications there. But as I look back on that and as I say that there's a lot of things I had to step into and had to move forward with courage because I had no other choice. There just wasn't another choice.

Linda Fogg-Phillips: 9:23

And as I look back, I am and this is gonna sound funny, but I am so grateful that I had that opportunity to step into the role that I'm currently in. I would have never paired up with BJ to build out the Habits Academy. I would have never been even motivated or needed to be in the position that I'm in now, and I love what I'm doing. I love the people I'm working with. Like yourself, I love giving people back that hope and evidence change and that the skills and tools that they can implement to navigate really difficult changes and come back through it on the other side better than before.

Linda Fogg-Phillips: 10:03

I've learned this the hard way and I don't want it to be so hard for others. So when you say, well, what was the pivotal change. What was the most impactful change? It's not one specific, but it was sort of a period of time where I had to decide is this going to destroy me or am I going to rise above this? And obviously I chose the latter and I'm still rising above it. I think we still are, but I look back and the blessings and the opportunities that I've had as a result would have never come to me without those challenges that I faced.

Judy Oskam: 10:33

Well, I think, right there, you're also talking a lot about mindset, too, and the fact that, because all of those instances, any one of those events, would be enough to just knock somebody flat, any one of those events would be enough to just knock somebody flat, and the fact that you kept going and going and you went from one to another, and that resilience, I think, is something that I love, the fact that you've actually looked back and sort of analyzed that, because that, I think, helps you grow right.

Linda Fogg-Phillips: 11:02

Yes, oh yes, and I'm very analytical, and so when things are going wrong, or even when things are going right, it's like okay, why? Why did that happen? And you know, getting stuck in the why is not helpful. It's very helpful. You know why? Me? I think that's a very a lot of us have gotten stuck in that mindset, especially in the midst of turmoil. That's a very a lot of us have gotten stuck in that mindset, especially in the midst of turmoil. Well, why me? Well, why not? But it's not so much why. You know, understanding, you know. But now understanding, okay, taking that that you learned, or the situation surrounding that, and how are you going to leverage that to be better? There's a saying that I often share with my children and it's be better, not bitter. It's really easy to be bitter about what life hands us and be bitter about the changes that are thrust upon us, but that doesn't help, that doesn't do anything.

Judy Oskam: 11:55

No, no, no.

Linda Fogg-Phillips: 11:56

The challenge is just to be better because of it. Rise above it and be a better person and make the world around you better as a result.

Judy Oskam: 12:04

Well, again, that's a choice, though, and again, you made those choices, and I think back and I look at all of the challenges that you had and what a good role model you have been for your own children and grandchildren now, because now and have you thought about that that everything you're doing as moms right, they're watching us all the time. Even though they're grown, they're watching us.

Linda Fogg-Phillips: 12:34

You know thank you for saying that, Judy, that actually I felt a responsibility, not necessarily to be a role model, but I felt a responsibility to be my best self for their benefit.

Judy Oskam: 12:46

For them, yes, yes for them.

Linda Fogg-Phillips: 12:48

And also, you know, during the time that my husband was alive but still declining, I needed to show up as my best self because I owed it to him and I owed it to my children. I do know and they've referenced this several times that when they're facing their own challenges which they do my children are now adults. They have their own families, they have their own day in and day out, big challenges as well as little challenges, and it doesn't matter if they're big or little. They're still challenges. They still are changes that you need to navigate, and I know that I've given my children some hope that they can do it too. And, to be really honest, my lifeline through all of these challenges was tiny habits, yes, which then evolved into, as you know, pearl habits, which is taking the challenge and creating beauty out of it. Pearl Habits, which is taking the challenge and creating beauty out of it, like that grain of sand making a pearl, making a gem out of that irritant or that challenge that you have, as opposed to allowing it to cause you to be bitter and to deteriorate or to have your relationships deteriorate.

Linda Fogg-Phillips: 13:50

I have one daughter right now that's having a lot of challenges with mental health. She has bipolar illness and also has a borderline personality disorder and has really struggled the last three years and I'm hoping that we have. I have daily conversations with her and she gets really stuck in the negative mindset and I'm hoping that the conversations I have with her, as well as what we've been through over the years, helps her see that there's a better way than being bitter. In fact, last week I was on a call with her. I was on a Zoom call with her and she won't mind me sharing her name. She's given me permission to share her name as well. Her name is Amber and she was complaining about something.

Linda Fogg-Phillips: 14:31

She was very negative and I just said look, Amber, happiness is a choice. And I have a sign in my office downstairs, the one that I usually sit in to write and read, and you know I pulled the sign off of my bookshelf because I have it just written on a little note card. With a smiley face, I said look, happiness is a choice. I said I've had this up on my bookshelf for over five years. I look at it every day to remind myself.

Linda Fogg-Phillips: 14:54

I can choose how I'm going to face this day. I can choose to be happy or I can choose to be angry and bitter and I think I'm starting to get through to her. You know she's probably the only child that really struggles with negativity. I know a lot of us get stuck with the negative talk in our head or narrative that is negative. You know, whatever we're going to tell ourselves, it's going to be the truth. Yeah, so you can change your story and, just like you said, judy, we can choose to be happy. We can choose to live a different story than the negative story we're telling ourselves.

Judy Oskam: 15:30

Well, and that's why I love Pearl Habits and talk a little bit about Pearl Habits. And how did that come to be? Because people who listen to this podcast and they you know, we'll put in the show notes information about Tiny Habits but talk about Pearl Habits. Because to me, I think that's fantastic, because a lot of the changes we want to make are coming from a negative spot, a negative place.

Linda Fogg-Phillips: 15:56

Yeah, and, like I said, they're thrust upon us. They're not necessarily our choice to make those changes, but we have to adapt, we have to be resilient. Pearl, habits emerged during my journey of really struggling through some of the challenges that I just shared with you, along with other challenges that emerged during all of this as well, as you can imagine. And one day well, it was in the early days of Tiny Habits One day I was talking to BJ you know BJ, who designed the Tiny Habits method, who's my brother.

Linda Fogg-Phillips: 16:30

We're very, very close and I was. I was pretty depressed, I was pretty apathetic, and I it was not. It was probably about the you know, three years or so after Garrett had passed away, and I was just really in a bad spot mentally and emotionally. And one day BJ said hey, linda, why don't you try this tiny habit recipe? We didn't have a name for it then, but he said it goes like this After your feet hit the floor in the morning, I will tell myself it's going to be a great day. And then, as you know, with the tiny habits method, one of the most important parts of it is reinforcing the behavior that you're wanting to create as a, as a habit, with a positive emotion, and I would just do two thumbs up and say, yes, you've got this way to go, that habit I have done every single day since that point in time.

Linda Fogg-Phillips: 17:15

What happened in this? And you know, I was sort of scoffing at BJ, not at him, but it's like, oh, brother, he thinks that's good. Yes, yes, like really, come on, bj, seriously. But I thought, why not? You know he's a pretty smart guy, it's not going to hurt me to do that. So why not try it? And we have a close enough relationship that you know we're comfortable challenging each other on things and just say hey, but I said, okay, I'll try it. I said I'll try it. It probably won't work, but I'll try it.

Linda Fogg-Phillips: 17:42

Here again, my negative mindset and within three days, what I saw was a complete shift in my mindset and a shift in my demeanor and I thought, wow, isn't that interesting. And as I looked at that and here again evaluated, why did it have such an impact on me? What I noticed happened is it took me out of my victim mindset and put me into a victor mindset, just by starting my day off with it's going to be a great day and celebrating, releasing the endorphins and dopamine that happens when you celebrate. As a result what I started doing, as the you know, I'd start my day off with that. But as a result what I started doing, as the you know, I start my day off with that. But as a result, I started looking for the good things in my day. What's going to make my day great, what are the great things that would happen that I didn't even plan, or great things that I would then make sure happened, and so my focus was more on the positive than the negative. That has been transformative for me. In fact, I have told BJ I think he saved my life because I was in such a dark spot at that point in time that he gave me that tool to implement. That has really positively impacted me and that's one of my favorite recipes.

Linda Fogg-Phillips: 18:46

We now call it the Maui habit, yeah, but also so I consider that a pearl habit, because you're taking a negative situation or difficult situation and you're looking at it differently. What I also saw is it gave me permission to look at the positive things in my life, as opposed to be drawn into the negative or drawn into everything that was going poorly. It really helped me realize there's a lot of things that are going well and to continue to focus on those, as opposed to the opposite. Another pearl habit that I use often and there's many, many of them Another pearl habit that I use often is when I get in a situation that is new to me, or I'm uncomfortable or, it's like, causes anxiety, and I, you know, it's like, oh man, I've never done this.

Linda Fogg-Phillips: 19:34

This is causing me to be uncomfortable.

Linda Fogg-Phillips: 19:37

I tell myself and here again, that's you know, when I'm feeling uncomfortable or when I get into a situation that causes me anxiety, I will tell myself, oh, this is going to be a new adventure.

Linda Fogg-Phillips: 19:46

I wonder what I'm going to learn.

Linda Fogg-Phillips: 19:49

Now. Adventures are fun, right, right, right, y'all don't want to go on a fun adventure, and so if we can reframe those challenging events or situations in our life that we're uncomfortable with or that are new to us, if we can reframe them as an adventure and in turn, look, I wonder what I'm going to learn. It allows you, I think, to navigate that experience or event more effectively and gracefully, but it also allows you to be taught, allows you to be aware and be curious about. Okay, what am I going to learn on this. And here again, instead of dreading it's like, oh no, not this again, or oh, I can't do this, you're reframing it and saying, hmm, this is going to be an adventure.

Linda Fogg-Phillips: 20:29

That's a Pearl Habit. So, taking either an emotion, a feeling, an experience that causes you that is that irritant, or the challenge, and designing how you're going to respond to it, instead of reacting, then you can design a more positive life and more positive response, which usually ends up with a positive result. So that's why it's called. You know, that's why we decided to call it Pearl Habits, and Pearl Habits simply emerged from, basically, the way that I needed to use tiny habits to cope with the challenges that I was facing.

Linda Fogg-Phillips: 21:03

And even today says, hey, this is really where it was. You know this, pearl Habits allowed you to cope, and still allows me to cope, with constant change and challenges that cause us to be uncomfortable sometimes.

Judy Oskam: 21:17

Well, because a lot of the people that we work with and coach are wanting to make a change and they're coming from. Why do I act this way in a meeting or why do I feel this way? So using the Pearl Habit technique is beneficial and I know I've had some, some people that I've I've worked with that, just to kind of, when I turn on my zoom I will do something. You know, I mean really to think more positively, but it's all about changing the mindset to making it more positive.

Linda Fogg-Phillips: 21:49

Exactly, In fact. Let me share another. This is sort of a funny example, but this is where Pearl Habits really helped diffuse my anger, Because sometimes our mindsets were irritated or angry or put out about something. About three years ago, my catalytic converter was stolen out of my Sequoia.

Linda Fogg-Phillips: 22:11

I have a 2002 Sequoia. I love it. It has over 200,000 miles on it. But I went out one morning to start it and it sounded like a freight train. I didn't know what was going on and I called my son. He goes. Well, look underneath your car and you know we discovered that my Cadillac converter had been stolen. Well, this was in the middle of the pandemic and so parts were very, very limited. You know, parts were very, very limited. Supply chain issues were real. I took my car to the shop and they said oh yeah, it's going to be about $2,500 and we're going to need three months to get this part in. So it's like that was irritating.

Linda Fogg-Phillips: 22:48

But I still needed to drive my car. Sure, I mean, I couldn't just park it and not drive it. And so I would go out and start my car. Every time I'd start it.

Linda Fogg-Phillips: 22:52

I sort of forgot that my catalytic converter wasn't there, so it'd be really loud whenever I started. That it would scare me. Then I'd get angry. It's like, dang those guys. But then I would just start getting angry and irritated and then my day would go downhill from there. Then I realized I think it took me about a week. It's like man, this is a perfect opportunity to create a Pearl habit, and so the Pearl habit that I designed was when I start my car and hear the rumble of my engine, I'll remind myself I'm grateful they left the rest of my car. That's good, and just that little change, right, you know, just oh, I'm so glad I have the rest of my car. Um, and celebrating that really changed my mindset and, you know, sort of made me chuckle at the fact. Oh yeah, because I have had a whole car stolen before yes, yes, a whole car.

Linda Fogg-Phillips: 23:37

Yes, and so you know that's uh, you know an opportunity or a time where you can, when something like that makes you angry or upset or irritate, you design how you're going to respond to that and, as a result, I was able to diffuse my anger or my sense of irritation over the fact that I was very inconvenienced for a period of time.

Judy Oskam: 23:58

So well, I I always you know, as a Gallup strengths coach, I always ask people to talk about their strengths and I can. I can see you have many strengths, but what? What do you feel like you've sort of relied on over the years? As when you think about Linda Fogg Phillips, you know, describe one of your strengths.

Linda Fogg-Phillips: 24:20

Okay, Well, this has been a strength of mine since I was a child and I am going to call it a strength because I do see it as a strength and that's I am stubborn. And I say that's a strength because I, you know, I get put in situations or determined we could call it determined. I like that.

Judy Oskam: 24:37

you can use that descriptor and call it determined or focused.

Linda Fogg-Phillips: 24:43

I like that better. I am determined. I just feel like you know when there's a challenge in front of us or something that needs to be solved there's a way to solve it. We just have to be I was going to say stubborn enough but determined enough to figure out what that is, to resolve or solve that problem. So I love that strength is determined.

Judy Oskam: 25:05

Yes, you know, I I look back at my parents went through something similar to what, what, what you guys did as far as the business and everything. And I remember watching my parents start over in their 60s, totally start over in their 60s, and I've reminded my mom about that she's almost 93 now and they made it and, you know, made a good living at the very end and I think that takes such determination and resilience to really get back on the horse, if you will and and actually get back into life, and it's a matter of what you, what you decide you're going to do.

Judy Oskam: 25:51

So I can tell you I relate to your story about the business and the all of that business because I feel, like I was that I was in a family that went through something similar and was already out and grown. But I remember looking back and seeing, wondering how are my parents doing that, starting over from scratch in their 60s? Wow, so that's remarkable.

Judy Oskam: 26:16

It is, and people do it at other ages and everybody has challenges. But but I think you know, when you look back at about just the momentum of change, and that you've constantly been able to, and maybe it is your determination that's kept you finding another path forward but what advice have you received that's really helped you do that, as far as keep moving forward?

Linda Fogg-Phillips: 26:43

You know, some other advice in here again. This this comes from BJ and he's, you know, at a time that I was really struggling to reinvent myself and to find my way. He was so encouraging and he gave me the opportunities grow, to step into those difficult situations and learn and grow. But what he really helped me do and this is sort of part of celebration actually is he'd always look back and said, wow, look how far you've come, or look what you've done, when I wouldn't see that. But he'd say, look where you were a year ago, see that. But he'd say, look where you were a year ago. And so you know that encouragement or that advice to always go okay.

Linda Fogg-Phillips: 27:23

Yeah, you know, today, today, you may not feel like you're doing as well as you did yesterday, but you know, today is a different day in different situations, in different circumstances, and you actually are doing pretty dang good. Just take a look at that and give yourself credit and realize that we've come a long ways, even from yesterday, if not yesteryear or even 10 years ago. We're all making strides forward. I think as humans we're always evolving. We're wanting to be better and so recognizing that, but taking time to look back and reflect and see how far you've come. I think is important.

Judy Oskam: 27:58

Well, and I always see you doing that with others. Why don't we do that as much with ourselves, though? That's a question.

Linda Fogg-Phillips: 28:06

You know that is a good question. I think it comes down to the fact that it's easier for us to celebrate others' successes, to recognize and highlight their successes. We tend to be very self-critical and so, as a result, I think it's harder for us to do on our own. I do think celebrating and reflecting and really recognizing how far we've come is a skill, and it's a skill that we get better at the more we do it. But it does sometimes take somebody from the outside that goes, wow, look how far you've come, look what you've done. And sometimes he will even point out things that I didn't even notice or realize were a milestone or a step, not even just a milestone, but a step forward for me.

Linda Fogg-Phillips: 28:48

I often laugh with him. I started teaching with him at Stanford even before Tiny Habits. We were working in the space of online behavior and he had me come out to Stanford every other week to teach an adult class on Facebook for parents, which in turn we wrote a book on. But and I reflect back and it's like man, BJ, and that was back in 2009. I said, you know, the first time I got on an airplane and traveled by myself, without my children or my spouse was really scary for me and I sort of laugh now because I was on a plane yesterday was really scary for me and I sort of laugh now because I was- on a plane yesterday, I'm getting on a plane tomorrow.

Linda Fogg-Phillips: 29:23

I go by myself everywhere now. But I look back and it's like it was just foreign to me and it's because that was not my focus. My focus was being a stay-at-home mom, sure, and so I really had the opportunity to go anywhere or travel anywhere by myself and I really lacked the confidence that I could do it. But once I did it, I found that it was really quite fun and very liberating as far as you know, building confidence in myself. So you know, look back on your successes, look back on your what you, you know how you've moved forward. Look back on you know where you were, even a year ago, and where you're at now. Now sometimes you might say, well, I'm not any better off than I was a year ago, but actually I think if you look closely, you probably are.

Judy Oskam: 30:02

You're not looking at the right thing. Yes, yes. Well, if we take this ahead a year and you look back, what does 24 hold for you? What ?

Linda Fogg-Phillips: 30:14

You know, in 2024, I really feel that I am called to take Pearl Habits out into the world. That really is, and you know that method pretty well. You know very well, judy, yeah, and you know how it can give people that hope and evidence that they can change.

Linda Fogg-Phillips: 30:31

I see it, I see it, and just give them back confidence. I guess it was, oh man how long ago. It was probably in 2018. Bj and I were on the stage together and, um, it was really interesting and and, as you know, I'm pretty religious and I do feel that God is in our lives and I feel like he directs us, but we have to pay attention. Yes, we have to listen yes.

Linda Fogg-Phillips: 30:53

Yeah, we don't pay attention, we miss those Right. And, um, attention, we missed those Right. And this was the first time that we'd really started talking about Pearl Habits at all. And he was on the stage and I was doing a breakout and as he was on the stage, he introduced the concept of Pearl Habits and I knew immediately that was my mission, that was my calling to take that out into the world. Then I did my workshop, talked about Pearl Habits as well, and after everything was over, we hadn't even really talked about our presentations at all before or after.

Linda Fogg-Phillips: 31:23

But BJ was taking me back to the airport. I was flying back here to Las Vegas where I live, and this was I remember it so well, it was in October and he says hey, linda, I got you an early birthday present. I said Okay, what is it? He says I bought you the PearlHhabitscom website. He said that's your brand, that's your domain, that's your purpose, and so I've known this for a while. It's and I've I really committed to, and during the pandemic was the time that I really should, you know, go back to the shoulds, but shoulds don't do us any good should have rolled it out during the pandemic, but I was so focused on the tiny habits you were building, your coaching team too, so yeah, and so, and even bj would every, every so often say well, how are pro habits coming?

Linda Fogg-Phillips: 32:11

how are pro habits coming? Let's say I'm working on it. I did get a website up last year, so I was and I did start recording a podcast. It's not launched yet. That's on 2020. Fantastic, yes, probably get some pointers from you on that Love it.

Linda Fogg-Phillips: 32:27

But I have designated, and I know this, and even some of the professionals I've worked with, like the company, the gentleman that runs the company that built my website, he knows me pretty well and he kept saying you're called to do this, you're called to do this. And so the last six months I've really been trying to make space to fulfill this calling and I'm stepping into that for 2024. Do or die. Hopefully it's not the day I love it, I love it and I need help from experts like you, judy.

Judy Oskam: 32:55

Well, we, I will be glad to help you with that, because I'm talking with some educators right now and Pearl Habits fits right in that mindset, so it's a perfect time for this. Oh, that's fantastic.

Linda Fogg-Phillips: 33:09

I'm just excited because I know how much hope it gives people. I know what it's done for me to change my life and make it more fulfilled. I guess is the best thing to do in the midst of all the turmoil, and so I'm just so excited to take that out to 2024. So that's my goal, that's what I love it.

Judy Oskam: 33:27

I love it. Well, that's fantastic. Well, Linda, thanks so much for chatting with us today and again, we'll look forward to learning more about Pearl Habits. We'll put information in the show notes. Any last comments you have for the audience.

Linda Fogg-Phillips: 33:41

The only last comment I have is believe in yourself and celebrate every single day.

Judy Oskam: 33:46

Okay, you heard it here Celebrate. Celebrate every single day. Well, thanks for listening to Stories of Change and Creativity. You can find more about our guest in the show notes. Please subscribe and leave a review on your favorite podcast player and remember if you've got a story to share or know someone who does reach out to me at judyoskam. com. Thanks for listening.