#46 - Finding Focus in Your Creative Business

Many creatives are talented or interested in LOTS of things. Or some creatives know they have a creative spirit, but feel like a jack of all trades / master of none. So today we’re talking about finding your creative focus and how to shift your focus if you want to change directions or add more to the mix.

Transcript

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Kathleen Shannon: 0:04

Get your business together, get yourself into what you do and see it through.

Emily Thompson: 0:10

Being bosses hard. Lending work in life is messy. Making a dream job of your own isn't easy,

Kathleen Shannon: 0:17

but getting paid for it, becoming known for it. And finding purpose in it

Unknown: 0:22

is so doable if you do the work.

Kathleen Shannon: 0:25

being bossed is a podcast for creative entrepreneurs. Brought to you by Emily Thompson and Kathleen Shannon.

Emily Thompson: 0:32

Hi, I'm Emily. And I own indie typography, where I help passionate entrepreneurs establish and grow their business online. By helping them build brands that attract and websites that sell. I help my clients launch their business so they can do more of what they love, and make money doing it.

Kathleen Shannon: 0:50

And I'm Kathleen, I'm the CO owner of braid creative where I specialize in branding and business visioning for creative entrepreneurs who want to blend who they are with what they do narrow in on their core genius and shape their content so they can position themselves as experts to attract more dream clients.

Emily Thompson: 1:09

And being boss as a podcast where we're talking shop, giving you a peek behind the scenes of what it takes to build a business, interviewing other working creatives and figuring it out. As we go right there with you.

Kathleen Shannon: 1:21

Check out our archives at loving boss calm.

Emily Thompson: 1:25

Welcome to episode number 46. This episode is brought to you by fresh books, cloud accounting,

Kathleen Shannon: 1:31

are you guys creatives are not at a lack of ideas. And you might find this feeling familiar in yourself, where you feel really talented and interested in lots of things but have a hard time figuring out what to focus on or what to really narrow in on. A lot of you might feel like a jack of all trades and a master of none. So today we're going to be talking about how to find your creative focus, or how to shift your focus if you want to change directions. One of my mottos whenever it comes to running a creative business is that you track what you attract. So you guys might know about my chalkboard system for tracking my clients. But I also think that it works whenever it comes to your finances too. So I was recently coaching a creative who was a total mess about their finances and felt like they weren't making the money that they wanted to make. So I asked them a little bit more about how they were tracking their finances, and they reveal that they're not at all. So I recommended freshbooks immediately. It's so easy to use. It's so intuitive, you don't have to have a degree in financing or accounting to use fresh books. So I think that tracking your income and your expenses, really just almost on a woowoo level gets you in touch with your money in a way where you start attracting more of it. So try fresh books for free today go to freshbooks comm slash being boss and select being boss in the How did you hear about us section? Alright, so I want to start off this podcast by telling you, Emily, that I recently read a book.

Emily Thompson: 3:13

And I wouldn't want to like slam these things down on me.

Unknown: 3:17

This is not India

Emily Thompson: 3:19

was this.

Kathleen Shannon: 3:20

So it's Ronda Rousey autobiography. Do you know who that is?

Emily Thompson: 3:25

I have no idea.

Kathleen Shannon: 3:26

She is a UFC fighter. Oh, yeah. And undefeated. She's legit, the most talented, badass fighter in the world. So I read her book. And of course, I'm like, What am I doing with my life?

Emily Thompson: 3:45

Of course, after you read every book, I feel like you come to me and you say that, but what were you questioning this time?

Kathleen Shannon: 3:53

I mean, she just has this like mental tenacity. That is, she knows that she's the best, and that no one will beat her. And I feel like if I were literally to get in, so I have been boxing, but I feel like if I were literally to so I thought about maybe even doing some amateur fights, I think I'm too old to go pro. But um, so when I'm reading this book, and I'm like, why didn't I start fighting whenever I was 10. And then to like, even whenever I played roller derby back in the day, I was just like, I just wanted to huddle up in a corner. Or you know, not that so much. I just wanted to skate fast and not get hit. So maybe boxing isn't the best hobby. But I just thought it was so cool that she was like I'm the best and no one can beat me and I would like to bring a little bit more of that attitude into life.

Emily Thompson: 4:46

Yes, absolutely.

Kathleen Shannon: 4:48

So did that. Yeah, but like, I think I might be an interesting book for creative entrepreneurs to read. You have to get past the first chapter. It's terrible. Like it's written. Okay, she might be the best five But maybe not the best writer, we all have our strengths. But after the first chapter, it gets so much better.

Emily Thompson: 5:07

I have to check that out. I like I like to read

Kathleen Shannon: 5:11

things like that would have. Have you read anything lately?

Emily Thompson: 5:16

No,

Kathleen Shannon: 5:17

I mean, you've been moving and unpacking so I won't judge. You

Emily Thompson: 5:20

know, I haven't really I started raising a thread that I can't even speak, let alone read. I started reading it rising strong recently. But I haven't really finished it yet. Yeah, just I've been reading lots of liquor advertisements on the outside of cardboard boxes. Because liquor boxes make the best packing boxes just so everyone knows they're small. They're very strong. And they hold books well.

Kathleen Shannon: 5:50

Okay, the last time I moved, I bought a bunch of the plastic like those plastic stores. Yes, that actually worked really well for moving I know it's might seem more expensive than boxes, but then it can be surged later. And then also those big ass IKEA bags. You can just dump a whole bunch of stuff in there. So those are what I like shoes moved

Emily Thompson: 6:13

at IKEA bags.

Kathleen Shannon: 6:14

Yeah. Second thing is, this is the first time I've ever done this, but I'm eating my lunch while we're recording this podcast. I literally was in back to back meetings all day. And so a lot of people ask me, I'm eating oatmeal. And a lot of people ask me about my oatmeal recipe.

Emily Thompson: 6:32

Yeah, so I want to share it real quick. Please do I'd like to like to hear this. Sorry, we oatmeal.

Kathleen Shannon: 6:38

If this is boring to you guys just hit the 15 second forward button a few times. But I get out so much. Okay, so first off, I like this steel cut oats. So I get the quick cooking steel cut oats. And then I toast them with like a teaspoon of salt in the pan before I add water. So I just went better or Yeah, I mean that butters good. I did dry today but you can do with butter. And then so I toast them a little bit. And then I add my water. I mean just do whatever the direction is called for. Then I add in some cinnamon and cardamom, and a banana for sweetness. I whisk that all together. So then it's boiling, boiling, boiling. And then right before it's done, I crack in to eggs and whisk that in there. And that is the magic. Like the two eggs. Yeah, in your oatmeal in your oatmeal. It makes it so creamy and rich and amazing and awesome. Trust me I have to get it so good.

Emily Thompson: 7:40

Louis is a millionaire like David and I could live without it. Oh no, I don't hate it. I'll eat it. I made really oatmeal every morning when she loves oatmeal. absolutely loves it. And she loved that you loved it. And I might have to try the egg thing because Lily has three breakfasts every day.

Unknown: 7:59

Me too. Do you?

Emily Thompson: 8:01

Yeah, like she wakes up and she usually has something before David and I really get going either a banana or she'll books herself a bowl of cereal and then I'll make breakfast. And so that's breakfast number two her second breakfast and then third breakfast is usually an after breakfast snack. So yeah, oatmeal having a good hearty oatmeal recipe in my life I think would would cut down on maybe on the number of breakfast that I have to feed my child.

Kathleen Shannon: 8:30

I like the breakfast dessert so like having pancakes after like a savory breakfast and then the pancakes. I almost started a blog series called I eat more than anyone I know that maybe Lilly

Emily Thompson: 8:45

tenderly Willie will fight you on that maybe So okay, along the same lines of you're like reading that book and you want to become a fighter and eating more than anyone you know. Lily sincerely wants to become the youngest American engineer. Yeah, she loves the show. absolutely loves it. And so we've been rock climbing a lot lately and she she's doing it with the purpose of training to become the youngest American Ninja Warrior. She's seven.

Kathleen Shannon: 9:17

I have a fantasy of like you sending Lilly out to Aunt Kathleen's for like a summer and then me like training Lily to be American Ninja Warrior and like we could set up a huge obstacle course in my backyard. Can't really it's on I will

Unknown: 9:32

help her

Kathleen Shannon: 9:33

I will help her however I can perfect

Emily Thompson: 9:35

will she'll need it and she will also expect you to be there like she's already told, like family members that like she'll fly them out to wherever it is that she will be competing, because she everyone has to go watch obviously. But she's totally stoked. Like I think this actually made that being a thing. So maybe we'll have talked about the obstacle course she's was trying to talk David and putting one in our backyard recently,

Kathleen Shannon: 9:56

I saw a couple of American Ninja warriors on Instagram. I'll share their names with you so blue and Lily can start following because it shows like her training. You're the actual show.

Emily Thompson: 10:08

Awesome. That would be great. Love that. That would be so great. Okay,

Kathleen Shannon: 10:12

I want to be an American Ninja Warrior. I wish I was seven. I wish I had realized the stream whenever I was seven instead of 33.

Unknown: 10:20

Exactly.

Kathleen Shannon: 10:21

Alright, so on that note, let's talk about finding focus.

Emily Thompson: 10:27

We've been meeting it a little more lately. Focus what's

Unknown: 10:37

I've got a helicopter flying by my house. So there you go. Focus

Emily Thompson: 10:41

You

Unknown: 10:41

go first. Okay.

Emily Thompson: 10:45

Perfect.

Kathleen Shannon: 10:46

Then all you might oatmeal. Right?

Emily Thompson: 10:48

Well, you so great job focusing. Um, so the thing about focus? well know, the thing about being a creative, especially a creative entrepreneur is focus is hard. It's just it's a little No, it's not hard, nothing is hard. It can be trying, I think, for our people to find focus, especially when, especially when we're creative, and we enjoy you know, I enjoy making websites, I also enjoy crocheting. So like, should I make a business out of selling scarves? I also like writing, in which case, should I write a book, and or like, there are so many things that we can creatively do and that we enjoy doing. So finding the thing that built a business around, it can be super, super hard for creatives.

Kathleen Shannon: 11:37

And I like sticking with it for a long haul is really hard to with, I think, especially with the internet, everything's moving so fast. And it's this shiny object syndrome, that it's hard to look at what other people are doing and not say, oh, maybe I should try that. Or maybe I should do this. Or, you know, I think that comparison and self doubt creeps in where you kind of want to completely try radically different directions. And then you end up not sticking with anything long enough to see it through. Alright, so how do you find focus? And do you ever feel like you get distracted?

Emily Thompson: 12:14

Oh, I absolutely felt like I get distracted. Probably every three minutes of every day of my life, I feel distracted. How do you or how did I find focus on what I was doing? For me, I think that I think I wrote a blog post about this ones. And that is not about doing what you love. But it's about doing what you find interesting, long enough to like, stick with it. And to make it into a business. I was talking to someone once and they told me like, they're talking about their business. And it's not about doing what you love, because I wake up most Mondays. And I don't love what I do necessarily love it. Like I don't want to marry it. And they're like, Hey, we're not having babies together, anything like that. But I find it interesting, I find it interesting enough to get up every day and to grow my skill set. And to learn more about what I'm doing and to connect with the kinds of people that my work connects me with. I find it never endingly interesting. And I think i think that's that's a key there is you find something interesting enough that you'd want to do it absolutely every day. And yet again, like our struggle is all the things and all the things that we find interesting. For me, it was about finding the most, the most viable business model in a lot of ways. So I've done a couple of businesses along the way. I started my online business career, I guess, as a jewelry maker. I tried doing a stationery shop for like a minute. And then I started designing websites. And I designed websites for five years, five and a half years. And I started intermingling, like coaching into that and then I started a podcast. And so I think I think one of the secrets is one, finding something you can focus on long enough, but also to understanding that things are going to evolve. So I think one of the problems that people find whenever choosing something to focus on is they think of it as something they will never be able to change. You're so

Kathleen Shannon: 14:28

exactly right.

Emily Thompson: 14:29

Yes. I mean, it's it's a huge struggle. Like if I had sat down five and a half years ago and said, Okay, I'm going to be a web designer. And that's what I'm going to do for the next 40 years of my life. I would not have been a web designer.

Kathleen Shannon: 14:40

Yeah, that's what I want to point out is that your story goes and then and then and then so you were making these kind of small adjustments along the way you were seeing what sticks. You were seeing what you actually wanted to do what you didn't want to do. But you did all that by actually doing it. Yes, Yes,

Emily Thompson: 14:58

I did. So I totally had Moments of unfocus, where I transition from one business to the next, until I found the one that I found the most interesting that I loved the people that connected me to the most. And that was ding ding ding the most viable business model for getting me where I needed to go both in life and like interest in me growing as a person, but also in the ability for me to make money and impact so that I could support myself and my family. I like it. Good. What about you, Kathleen, focus well, so

Kathleen Shannon: 15:39

my focus started with probably my craft. And I think that's my, that maybe is how it starts for a lot of creative entrepreneurs. So I was really lucky that I mean, I guess I was lucky that going from high school to college, I made a decision to be a fine arts major, with an emphasis in graphic design. And I stuck with it. So that was the first time I really found focus. And really what happened was, I started as a fine arts major thinking I was going to be a painter or a screen printer. And then I audition for graphic design. So again, it's kind of that chance element that was in there, I made it into graphic design. And I decided that I actually kind of liked it. So I kept with it. And then my goal, my focus over the next. I mean, five to 10 years of my career, I'm trying to think about how long it actually was, was to really just become the best graphic designer that I could become, that was my focus, there was no other, I'm going to start an online business, I'm going to, you know, do launch products. It was that I wanted to be the best graphic designer. So I, I had my job in advertising. But I was also blogging at the same time. And I think that that was an element of finding. Not only my focus, but my voice, it was an experiment in ground. And we were talking a little bit about blogging on our last episode. And I think that this is a good pro for blogging is that it gives you a space to really process. So a lot of times blogging isn't just about sharing your gifts of knowledge, which I do believe in, it's also a place for you to really examine your own point of view and figure out what you like and don't like. And that's it's just a place to figure out what sticks. So I think that I was able to really I never thought of going into even starting braid as what's my focus? I think, in fact, that would have been paralyzing to think, well, what am I going to do? So I have a lot of people who want to take my branding ecourse. And they're like, but I don't know what I'm branding. And I always tell them, just go through the course as yourself. So I'm just branding myself as Emily Thompson, I'm not worrying about the web stuff, not worrying about the jewelry stuff. I'm not worrying about the podcast, I'm just coming into it as Emily, what do and I think that that's part of it, in finding your focus is knowing that you're a human being, and you're going to have a lot of interests, and that sometimes the focus is really just, or really the common denominator is yourself and having trust in that. So that you don't even have to worry about your focus. So I mean, that would go against the whole point of this podcast to be like, find your focus by not worrying about your focus. So I guess, for me, or even like more recently, with the podcast, being a big focus of ours. I think that it's something that I can't not do. And that's how I found focus here. I can't not do this. I love doing it so much. And same thing with braid. I can't not do it because it's what I'm best at. So I think that with focus, there's a little bit of like a confidence, what do you what are you confident in? And that's a really great place to find focus.

Emily Thompson: 18:59

Yeah, I agree. I think I think that I think we all have to figure it out. And, obviously, but in order to figure it out, like you have to go along this like path and my whole test and change thing where you're just you're literally going at life and work as an experiment and you're testing things out, you're testing out interests, and you're testing out ideas, and you're testing focus in one place or the other end. If it doesn't work for you, you change it or you make it work for you. which is I think just as important as changing is sticking with it. In the right case, I guess which you never really know how you're going to get there. That's a fun thing to test and change for yourself. Um, but I think one of the things about about finding your focus before you find your focus, I mean you have to find your groove. I think that you can focus on anything absolutely anything if you know your general purpose, and you know that you have a task to accomplish, like, you can go focus on cleaning the toilet right now, it's not going to be what you make your life and business out of. But focus is something that that comes with an understanding of a task. And once you can find the groove, and you're focusing on multiple different things, and testing and changing lots of things, I think the I think your real purpose sort of comes to the top, it's the thing that you most easily find your focus around can become your life's focus on that effort around today. But really, though, I think, I think you have to start your business. And I'm just doing like a little mini session with someone just earlier today. And she is doing what she wants to do, but isn't finding the traction yet that she wants to find. And she's super new at what she's doing. She's doing like branding and website for creative entrepreneurs, has really just sort of dove into it as already questioning whether or not she should give it up and try something else. And I think that if she's found a groove there, if she like, likes what she's doing, and that she finds it easy to focus on her tasks, and to build her business, those questions are going to come up, but you just have to sort of keep trucking along. And then all the benefits come as you continue to do the work. But finding, finding your groove finding your ability to do things doesn't have to be related to things that you'd like to do. And as you do things you don't like to do, things you'd like to do will come up. And those are the things you do more of what I don't think it should not have drank that extra cup of tea this morning.

Kathleen Shannon: 22:00

All right. So one of the things that I really like to think about whenever it comes to getting clarity around what I want to be doing is asking if or you know, asking creatives that I'm coaching, if you could do just one thing all day, every day, what would that be? And I think that makes a lot of people itchy thinking about is having to do when they're really right now, if you only could do one thing in your business, what would it be?

Emily Thompson: 22:30

I think podcasting. Yeah, done. No, right.

Kathleen Shannon: 22:35

And so I felt that before that mine would be writing or right now it's podcasting. Um, and it's funny because those things have been my focus at different times. So again, my focus continues to evolve. I'm not just because my focus last year was writing, it doesn't mean that my focus this year has to be writing as well. So it doesn't mean that you've totally changed your business Exactly. So then what I'm doing is I'm shifting my focus from my craft, or even my way of expressing myself to really seeing the thread that ties those things together. So and this takes a lot of conversation with you and with my sister to really hammer it out and feel like what I'm doing. And so after a lot of conversation with my sister, we determine that in our business, my focus is, so her focus is like one to one client work. And my focus is one to many. So that kind of broader outreach and impact. So that includes things like writing newsletters, blog posts, and podcasting. So now I'm starting to see the common focus between all the things I've been interested in over the years. Another thing I like to tell people is to get really specific about what you actually want to be doing all day long. So I for a while thought that I wanted my focus to be hand lettering, for example. And then I realized I don't ever actually want to sit down and do hand lettering, like, it's just not my thing. Right? So um, so then I think like, whenever it comes to focus, what do you literally want to be talking about? What do you want to be having conversations about? So if you're meeting someone over coffee, what are you guys talking about? Or what do you want to be typing emails about? So you and I are both a bit overwhelmed by our emails. And if we were having an email about stuff that we didn't, like, Can you imagine? So what do you want to be emailing about? Um, what do you want to be working on whenever you have resting bitchface at your computer because again, being a creative entrepreneur is not always glamorous. It's not this like Instagram, perfect life of creation, and beautiful offices. Sometimes it's just hammering it out. And so whenever you're hearing hammering it out, what does that actually look like? Is it tweaking every little pixel on a logo? Which, at times sounds totally dreamy? Is it? I'm writing an outline for an ecourse? What is it that you're working on? So I think that that's some of the ways that I've really found focused around what I want to be doing.

Emily Thompson: 25:23

Yeah, I agree with that. I think, um, I think focusing on what you want to be doing all day where you want to be writing about like, that definitely helps uncover what your purpose is in the moment. And I also think it's important to point out that you, you really can only focus on one thing at a time. And so whenever I'm looking at, like, my timeline, as a business owner, my my focus has shifted multiple times, obviously, like, in the early days, I was doing jewelry, but I was growing a business, like my focus was, was learning how to launch and grow a business online. And it went from, you know, building community to setting up an Etsy shop to doing my first website. And then my focus transitioned into helping other people set up their shop, too. So then it was websites and coaching and design and developing and doing all kinds of things like that, that helped me help others do the same thing. I couldn't have done both those things at the same time. And even now, like I've spent the past couple of years focusing on one on one project work, I focused on building a client base on building my expertise on on, you know, crafting a portfolio that would attract more people like I was focusing on that internal business growth. And by helping my clients do things, now, there's a transition in focus to, you know, podcasting to doing right there with you the one to many, where my team now can transition to doing the one to one client work, whereas I am much more in the podcasting or doing toolkits, or, or getting into content marketing, or whatever those things are, your focus will shift throughout your entire business. But you can also only adequately focus on one thing at a time. So it's thinking about where you are and what you need to be doing. If you have just started your business, your focus doesn't necessarily need to be on growing a team, your focus may need to be on getting those first clients and doing the content marketing that will attract those people. Once you attract those people, your focus should be giving them the most amazing one on one experience ever. Or if your product based business maybe that's you know, curating a collection of products that you can create, and focusing on making sure that that craft is amazing. And then focusing on pulling in those customers. So your focus transitions from from, I don't know, phase to phase in your business. And it's important to realize that to really do each of them really well. You need to be focusing on one thing at a time. Yeah, I

Kathleen Shannon: 28:14

see so many creative entrepreneurs, self sabotaging by focusing on what's three steps ahead of them, instead of focusing on the next step.

Emily Thompson: 28:24

Yes, yes, that is, that is the status date. For me to find creative Zen is a place where they are worried about about scaling their business whenever they don't have their first offering yet. I think I think that again, focusing on the wrong part of where you are at the moment is completely an utterly self sabotaging,

Kathleen Shannon: 28:49

it would be like, let's say you're cleaning your house. And you're like taking a damp cloth around the floorboards to clean up dust bunnies, whenever your entire closet is on your bedroom floor. It's like having clothes first. Right, and then focus on the baseboards. So I see a lot of that. And again, I think it's a way that creatives are sabotaging themselves. And I think it's a way that they're getting in their own way. Which is a term I hear a lot. No, it's always like, what does that mean getting getting in your own way? I think that's an example of it. And so one of the other things that I see all the time is creative entrepreneurs, feeling scattered and distracted because they're thinking about what they want to be doing instead of actually just doing it. So I think that you have to do a lot of experimenting and trying lots of things, all the things that you're interested in, but actually do them. Don't just sit around and think about them. And don't do branding courses on them. Do the thing. First figure out what you want to focus on and then bring And it and then market it and then create a product around it. You will not gain creative confidence by getting stuck in your own head.

Emily Thompson: 30:09

Nope. That was like a mind drop. Your vision could have just been catoe face when she said that backed away from the lie. That was perfect. No, I completely agree. Talking is not doing thinking is not doing doing is doing. Planning is not doing doing is doing. And I mean, I could have dreamed up 18 more businesses in the past five years. Thankfully, I didn't, I didn't act on any of them. What I've been doing is this. And because I've been doing this for five and a half, six years, I have what I have, like I've built what I built because I do it not because I sat and planned it. I think that's really important. A lot of a lot of creatives, a lot of people period, struggle with the idea phase and transitioning into the doing phase. It was doing a coaching call last week with someone who has a website as a great website. Beautiful, I loved it. And I'm judgmental when it comes to websites. And she has wasn't sharing it yet. Because she because she didn't think it was perfect. And so it was one of those things like, Okay, you've talked about it, you've done it, like you have this website. And you're planning on launching, and you're planning on having your offerings, and you are are thinking about all of these things, but you have yet to act on actually launching this online business. And if you keep your website hidden away, and you're still not sharing what you're doing, then you don't have an online business in which you don't have or you're not even an entrepreneur yet like until you actually have this thing that you're doing. You're just dreaming of doing it. And that's a place that I find tons of people in and it's one of the reasons why I love that we are so adamant about launching things before we're ready. Is this idea that like to activate the focus, you do it and you launch it even though it's not reading, you testing changing go along.

Kathleen Shannon: 32:09

And one of the things that I've one of the ways that I find focus even just in the daily grind, so I feel like I have my expertise pretty established right now. And so I know what I'm doing. But sometimes even just around my to do list, I'm like, What am I What am I doing, I don't even know where to begin. So one of the things I do all the time every week is I asked myself, What can I do to make $100 right now, and it gives me so much focus around doing something actionable. So that's one of the things that you're talking about is getting stuck in the idea phase. And I think that's why you and I get along so well is because we love coaching people from that idea phase and research phase into the let's get to work phase. And we know that getting to work comes with the punches, it comes with ups and downs. So I think a lot of being boss is really just navigating those ups and downs in that action in that like area of action. But anyway, the the focus on making $100 today it it gets my ass motivated to write a newsletter, to hop on a podcast to send out an email to do whatever it is that I need to do to get started. So it's really not about the $100 it's really just about the action of doing something of offering something that is actually worth money. And high, you know, what am I trying to say? It's something that makes you hireable?

Emily Thompson: 33:42

Yes, it's something, something that will put money in your pockets. I mean, there's I find it really hard. And we talk about this to talk about money with creatives. And that sad is that we're all here. We're for profit businesses, we are entrepreneurs, entrepreneurs, are here to accomplish things. But we're here to accomplish things in exchange for money. And that's not something that should be a difficult thing for anyone to talk about. And and it's actually one thing that I have had to transition myself into being more comfortable talking about it because I haven't always easily just shout it out about money. But it's one of those things that allows you to find focus. I think whenever you can put things into perspective of $100 a day. What can you accomplish to do that, and it's not about just sort of lining your pockets with gold. It's about paying your rent. And it's about feeding you and it's about having a viable business that will support yourself and your community and all those things along the way. And it's one of those things that I like to use to help me focus on what it is that I'm doing. If I'm I'm having a day where I do not want to get out of bed. Nothing will make me focus on what I need to be doing more so than realizing that me not getting out of bed means that how am I going to pay my team next time, you know, pay period comes around sort of things. So it is a really great motivator. I love the $100 a day I meet people do that all the time. It's a great like a mindset to have. I wish Netflix made me $100 a day. Hi, guys, Emily here with a bit of a confession. I may be a total boss and even have a geography degree in my pocket. But I suck at time zones. I couldn't tell you the number of times I've showed up an hour late or early for client meetings because I simply cannot wrap my head around who's an hour ahead, who's an hour behind and what that even means. and bless my soul. When I book an international client, my calendar Wrangler Chris cannot glare at me enough. That is until we started using acuity scheduling to set meetings with our clients that in the shop biography, their automatic timezone detection and conversion has saved my goat more than once. And I'm grateful that I never again have to laugh off my geographic incompetence, or apologize for being late ever again. Schedule clients without sacrificing your soul. Sign up for your free trial of scheduling sanity at acuity scheduling.com slash being boss. Now let's get back at it.

Kathleen Shannon: 36:39

So I was just listening to our boss boyfriend's Paul Jarvis and Jason Zook over I always invisible hours. And okay, wine in their most recent episode on goals they mentioned coming on our podcast and typing out bucket lists and how they didn't have bucket list. But I just want to clarify our bucket lists are not they were saying that, you know, if I want to do something, I'll do it now. And I think that it's not like we're waiting to retire to do our bucket list.

Emily Thompson: 37:08

Oh, no. It's just like, I'm not going to go like climb a mountain right now. Because I want to do active make a list so that when the time comes, I remember that I want to

Kathleen Shannon: 37:18

do it. I love making a list that I can go back and be like, wow, I actually ended up doing a lot of those things. Yeah, a short amount of time

Emily Thompson: 37:26

anyway, no, no, no, what's something on your bucket list?

Kathleen Shannon: 37:32

So I really wanted to be able to do the Seven Summits, which is the highest on every continent. Right. And I think right now it's changed to high pointing, which is the highest point in every state. I would love to be able to do that. I'm worried about my knees.

Emily Thompson: 37:51

Oh, yeah, I

Unknown: 37:52

don't know. What about you? What's on your bucket list right now?

Emily Thompson: 37:58

Um, I want to put it on my list with that. I want to learn flamenco dancing. But right there with you with the knees. I hadn't really thought about that. Yeah, we'll see.

Kathleen Shannon: 38:15

Well, now my bucket list is to be Ronda Rousey, or Beyonce, I feel like

Emily Thompson: 38:22

you need your bucket list so that you can write things down and then reevaluate what you need to actually be focusing on.

Kathleen Shannon: 38:30

But so Okay, my whole point of talking about their podcast is that they were both talking about goals and money and that sort of thing. And what was interesting, is they both only need about $3,000 a month to live off of, and that includes, like, kind of mortgage and food. And I was thinking, I think that's about what I need to live on. And I thought I bet that's about what Emily needs to live on. Yeah, so $100 a day actually comes out to you if there's 365 days a year $36,500. So I know that everyone's always talking about the six figure business and that's the dream and blah, blah, blah. But really, if you can just make$36,000 a year doing what you like to be doing and what you're best at more power and it might be all that you need. Um,

Emily Thompson: 39:19

yeah, I completely agree with that. Sometimes I feel a little guilty, how big we talk sometimes, because I know that a lot of our listeners aren't here to build businesses per se. Like they're probably here to like freelance and support themselves for the rest of their life or whatever it is be their own boss that not anyone else's boss. But I think I think that is really important to sort of shout out there like yes, about 3000 bucks a month would get us by perfectly fine. And $100 a day is certainly the way to do that. I think that I think that there's nothing wrong with just living happily happily.

Unknown: 39:57

Amazingly.

Kathleen Shannon: 40:01

Keep sorry I was eating

Emily Thompson: 40:08

good I like the core is gonna like have all those little like

Kathleen Shannon: 40:11

spoon little things I'm sorry Cory I don't even think about that.

Emily Thompson: 40:15

Me fine people know you're eating

Kathleen Shannon: 40:17

that's why I mentioned it in case there's like mouth noises perfect sorry if we get any negative reviews because I'm eating

Emily Thompson: 40:26

Yeah, they can

Unknown: 40:29

bosses gotta eat true that

Kathleen Shannon: 40:32

I will never be that person that's like oh I forgot to eat lunch

Unknown: 40:37

like you ate four of them

Emily Thompson: 40:41

you ate enough for yourself and three other people it's fine No I think that's

Unknown: 40:47

eat away

Kathleen Shannon: 40:47

I will find you. I was just thinking about New Orleans this might even be airing after that starting to get nervous about the timing of eating food

Emily Thompson: 40:57

I do I need to bring you snacks that Kathleen a couple extra snacks for New Orleans

Kathleen Shannon: 41:02

well our friend Katie Dale about just sent us both like 100 kind bars

Emily Thompson: 41:07

yeah oh man I love kind bars you're right so wellness Wonderland shout out to Katie works at kind in she saw that. Or she heard that we mentioned their book, The do the kind thing with CO wrote and got in touch with us. We lived on kind bars when we did our road trip. And so now Lily is the happiest person on the planet. She has tons of time.

Kathleen Shannon: 41:34

I want to clarify to you that we're not getting paid to talk about this.

Emily Thompson: 41:38

No, we really just live off kind bars.

Kathleen Shannon: 41:40

And because of all the accomplishments that we've had around the podcast, like landing really cool guests and really great sponsors. It wasn't until I got 100 kind bars in the middle of my husband. Yeah. Well, my husband was like, Yes. Finally, something with this thing. And I was like, I can go buy you like 100 kind bars anytime?

Emily Thompson: 42:04

Oh, no, I completely agree. We we've been eating them like crazy, absolutely loving them. Yay, kind bars. Um, but let's get back to focus focus. So I want to talk I want to talk about that like shifting focus a little bit because you do find your focus in the beginning. And maybe maybe your focus in the beginning is like building your Twitter following. Or maybe it's starting the most important Facebook group on the planet. Or maybe it's just focusing on your branding and getting that so spot on that you know how to sell what

Kathleen Shannon: 42:37

you do. Okay, I just have to jump in here because I think it should be around. Because again, I think that sometimes focusing on those things from the beginning, or some of the things that put you three steps ahead of yourself, whenever what you really need to be focusing on is what you can sell for money. So that might be what you are good at. That might be why you want to do what you want to do. So maybe it's not about the money, maybe it's about helping people. Okay, how are you going to help them? Yeah, so I think that focusing on what it is that you actually do is huge. And then after that focus on your Twitter following and

Emily Thompson: 43:13

I agree, I completely agree. And I think that sometimes you have to do something like a Twitter following to help you find that focus too though, with and with this, like woowoo notion that I think we're all here to help people in our in our own ways. And I was not born knowing how I was going to do that, like by any means. Like it took me doing all the things that I've done all the moments of focus and whether that was just getting that stupid ass degree. Or it was you know, launching that first website or booking my first website client, or sending you an email about doing a podcast like whatever those focuses were, they led me to find my purpose of helping creatives build businesses that get them paid. Like, I feel like that, in a nutshell, is probably my focus. My purpose, I guess. And it took me doing it took me like wandering that path to get there. So it's finding that focus in your moment. I think I think that finding your focus to build a business is absolutely around finding the thing that's going to get you paid. To do that.

Kathleen Shannon: 44:34

I would say that it's taken me years to understand my focus and like you said, starting maybe with a Twitter and engaging with people online started with a blog. Yes, just say here's a blog. And so really finding the themes that kept coming up in that blog, and ultimately what it came to and then starting braid creative and my business in this podcast. I think ultimately what it comes down to me or for me is helping other creatives. And really, I think that everyone is creative. And we've talked about that before, too, but I think it's helping people be who they are 100% of the time. And so I have to live that by getting on a podcast and being vulnerable or writing in a blog post. And that doesn't necessarily mean putting all my shit out there, it just means that I don't have a separate wardrobe for work and for the evening, and that's just a way of simplifying it, but also, my point of views and just how I live my life is the same at work as it is in my life. And sometimes that can be a tricky blanche to navigate.

Emily Thompson: 45:45

Take a moment on that I heard this yesterday. And maybe this is like the universe telling you something. But I have friend of ours, I don't even remember how we were talking about this. I rarely get this deep. But he was saying that he had heard that, like the definition of emotional health is whenever you can be yourself, no matter who you're with. And I think I think there there's so much power in that. And like what you're saying with you know, having a wardrobe, that's the same no matter if you're at work or at home, and that's talking to your mom the same way you would talk to your dog, probably not your dog. Or like friends like being able to be yourself throughout everything. So actually, Kathleen, maybe you are the picture of emotional.

Unknown: 46:34

Anyway, well, my energy doctor, my energy doctor said my emotional health was on point five,

Emily Thompson: 46:41

good.

Unknown: 46:42

I think it's my mental health that's a little more challenged right now.

Emily Thompson: 46:46

We'll work on that.

Kathleen Shannon: 46:48

It's fine. But um, okay, so shifting focus. And this is something that you and I have both encountered in our careers, probably a little bit more around the tactics or our offerings. So I want to talk a little bit about how to do that. So a big time that I shifted focus in my career is whenever I went from trying to be the best graphic designer I could, to getting into coaching. And I will never forget the day that I told my sister who's my business partner, that I wanted to do life coaching training with Martha Beck, and I was so scared that she was going to read too much into it or persuade me to not do it, even though I really want to do it. Again, I didn't really know what my endgame was. And I think that was a good thing that I wasn't focusing on three steps ahead of how I'm going to market this, I just wanted to go down that path. Um, so but here's the deal, I didn't completely change my business, online, or even in person. I'm still a branding expert. That's what my career is in. But I'm starting to venture down this path of coaching, while still positioning myself as the stuff that gets me business, then I was able to really see once I was done on that path, how I could merge that path back into branding and helping creative entrepreneurs. I think that so a lot of the creatives that I might be doing work for a lot of times might be doing graphic design, and then if they wanted to go down coaching, they feel like they have to just completely trash everything, and launch a new business around coaching. I think that we talked so much about finding your focus, it doesn't mean that you have to do just one thing, you can start to blend and I talk about this all the time, these different skills that you pick up along the way, are tools in your tool belt, they are not the thing necessarily. And I think that's why it's so good to have a clarity of purpose around why you do what you do. Because then you're able to take all of the tools that you pick up along the way, all the different ways that you express yourself along the way and blend them all together. Again, this is why we're called braid. If you could see my hands, I'm like bringing all the different threads together and weaving them into one story. So and I think that that kind of like gradual layering in of interests is what helps you shift directions without making a huge one at

Emily Thompson: 49:26

definitely, I think there is so much importance in what you just said, um, and around two things particularly Oh really, it doesn't matter how many things um, the idea that shifting your focus happens on one or two levels. And that you are shifting your personal place in your business and or your shifting your business model that do not have to happen at the exact same time as so often I see people who would totally screw Have a really great business model because they want to shift their focus when they just needed to shift their role in their business. And I think that that is such a huge thing to, to realize, as you're thinking about your role, how it is that you may be needing to shift your focus, and what that means for your business. If you're building a brand, that's literally just a personal brand, and you are your business, then those things are going to happen pretty much simultaneously. But you can build a business where your role can shift within your business without your business model changing at all.

Kathleen Shannon: 50:35

I think Okay, so let's say I was all by myself doing the design thing, and then I went into layer in coaching, I think that I would have done it Well, probably exactly how I did do it. And I'm still positioning myself as a designer and branding expert, but then I start using my coaching process, to supplement my branding process was just actually exactly what I ended up doing with braid. So

Emily Thompson: 51:00

well. And that's, that's the small decision. Who are we talking to about?

Kathleen Shannon: 51:04

It was just the David. Dave, am I enter Hanson from 37 signals, or formerly 37 signals? Basecamp. So that would have been on our last episode.

Emily Thompson: 51:14

Yeah. So we talked about those small decisions. And that, you know, if you are a designer and you want to go coaching, it's not about ditching all of your design, offerings and going just coaching. It's about making small decisions along the way. I think I think that's really huge. I think a lot of people think that if they want to do something else in their business, and it requires a total rework, and it doesn't, you can make small decisions to shift your focus along the way, and it'll just make you better at it, I think.

Kathleen Shannon: 51:43

And I think it's more creative thing to do is to have different points of focus, and then connect those dots in an interesting way. So I don't believe that each person has their own unique gift and only then can bring it to the world. I think it's almost like the notion of soulmates which, right? I think that we have lots of soulmates, like, if I had not happened to be born or lived here gone to college here, I would have found someone that is not my husband to enjoy life with surely I mean, that's what I believe. So I think the same thing about really being a creative entrepreneur, but I do think that what can make us unique and interesting, is again, collecting those different points of focus, and then connecting them together in a very interesting way. That was, that was the

Emily Thompson: 52:29

second point that I thought was super fantastic. Sorry, no, no, I'm glad you reminded me because I had forgotten what it was, um, is that idea of picking up those tools along the way. So again, if I had told myself five years ago, when I decided that I wanted to start doing websites for other people that I'd be doing a website only for the next 40 years, I would not have done it. Now, I see that as one of the tools that I've picked up along the way to get me to whatever that bigger purpose is. And it was websites, and it turned into so many websites that I had to I had to transition into strategy. So that can make websites better for people. It wasn't about plug and play, it was about telling my clients what they needed. And then that turned into not so much focus on websites, but also on building the online business as a whole. So you're picking up these these tools from your clients, from your engagements from your, from your tribe, and that is what builds you to who you are You don't start a business to be there for the next 40 years you started because that's where you're going to put your focus and gathering the tools that relate to that interest. Yeah. So

Kathleen Shannon: 53:42

I think that there's also something to be said to gathering tools that you don't know how you're going to use yet. So for me, one of the big things that I've picked up along the way recently is becoming a mom, I feel like that is absolutely a point in my constellation of business offerings maybe. And or I think that the skills that I'm learning as a mom are going to be skills I bring into business somehow I don't know how that's going to be yet I don't know if you know, maybe one day I have an offering just for mompreneurs or something like that. But again, I'm looking at this as this is another skill I'm picking up now this is a tool in my tool belt. I don't know how it will relate, but even on a not so deep level as like motherhood and how that adds to my career or my life and all that is even little skills. Like if I did want to learn hand lettering and not really knowing how that is going to affect my business. You don't have to sometimes have a goal or plan for every single thing that you do. You can just do it and have fun doing it and then see what happens

Emily Thompson: 54:53

agree that Oh, great point number whatever. So I think I think that is Such a huge thing to like, throw in this too. And that, you know, as creatives we do, we will pick up tons of tools, you have so many skills we all do. And that does not mean that all of them will either will even like work themselves into your business, which is like a whole other divide to make their and fun little things. So I've been totally enjoying my tarot cards lately. And David, he loves me, and I love him for loving me as much as he does. But I've been enjoying them a lot lately. And I'll tell you why. So in in college, I almost got I almost got an art history degree, loved art history, but knew that it was going to probably not be the most worthwhile degree to have though. Following up now, I should have just done that because the other one was useless too. So almost got my art history degree because I love like symbolism and like, just I love looking at pretty things. I was also a psych major for a while I always been super obsessed with like the power of suggestion and making people do what I want them to do.

Kathleen Shannon: 56:12

Now I just feel manipulated into this podcast,

Emily Thompson: 56:16

you shouldn't that email was very clear,

Unknown: 56:18

I didn't even want to do this.

Emily Thompson: 56:22

No, I've always I've always been really fascinated by psychology, it was a psych major for a little while, really hated my research and design analysis class and dropped it immediately. Um, I also really loved like linguistics and anthropology and cultures, which is why I totally got in geography like, those are the things that interests like non business me. And I ordered tarot cards when you sit or actually probably about a year ago now. And it were them because they were gorgeous. So I have what deck is it? I can't even remember, which is the Oh is the hermetic deck. So it's like black and white engravings. They're so bright and chock full of symbolism. Like on a level where apparently there's not a whole lot of people who are really good at them anymore, because they're so deep. Um, so I've been enjoying, like hanging out with them, enjoying the symbolism, loving the power of suggestion, and like what Tarot does, and that's why I've been hanging out with it, you will never, ever be able to hire me to read your cards for you. Like that is totally just something that I am putting energy into. And I'm doing it because I find it interesting, and I totally love it. And it's pulling together threads from my life that I thought were gonna be like, straggling behind forever. But it's something that I've been able to pull together and completely enjoy, like on my own, like I go out the front porch before anyone's awake in the morning and just like, flip through my tarot cards, there will probably be a tattoo someday really soon. But with the idea that you can also cultivate these tools for things you simply find enjoyable in your life. I think it becomes a habit of entrepreneurs to want to monetize everything. And it's okay to keep interests that are just for yourself.

Kathleen Shannon: 58:15

Yeah, and on the flip side of that, I want to talk a little bit about how I've seen I mean, I've literally watched it happen by following other creatives on their blogs or on Instagram, pick up a new hobby or project and then a year later, it's their major focus. And so Lisa Congdon is a great example of that she decided she wanted to get better at lettering, and was doing a letter a day. So I think that these kinds of projects can be huge. And my friend Becky Simpson, also known as Becky Murphy, she just got married. And she was doing a cool project called I'd rather be short and it didn't even have a name when she started doing it. She's just doing these cute illustrations about being short because she's something like four foot nine or no maybe she's like 411 maybe she's five feet. No don't all her She's adorable.

Emily Thompson: 59:10

I my grandmother is like 411 and getting shorter every year like I and I'm lucky to get five three most days. So all I want love short people

Kathleen Shannon: 59:22

know it is funny. I recently took a photo with her on Instagram and people are like, I had no idea how tall you are. And I'm a good like foot taller than whenever I have my heels on anyway. So, um, she started this blog series where she was just sharing doodles, and then it turned into a book which then turned into her wanting to really push her illustration career. She also has background as a designer. So it was just an example of watching something kind of unfold along the way, which is why I think that there's so much power in capturing and shaping and documenting and sharing what it Is that you are doing and want to be doing? Again, I think that that helps you focus on actually doing the thing versus just sitting around and thinking about the thing.

Emily Thompson: 1:00:11

I agree. And I think that also points to a lot of conversations we've had with bosses around the podcast, about enjoying the process, and it not being about an end result. And in many cases, not even being about a business model, which totally goes against what I was saying earlier, it's about, it's really about doing exactly what you finding, or what you find interesting and seeing what happens. I think the key here also is sharing. Because if it's something that you're passionate about, and you're sharing it, that's when opportunities come. It's not about sitting in your little corner and hustling out your websites, or, you know, crocheting all your mittens, or whatever it is, it's about, it's about doing what you do. And if you want to share it with the world, you share it with the

Kathleen Shannon: 1:00:54

world. I think also asking for what you want, even if you're not ready for it. So okay, going back to boxing and becoming a fighter, right. This morning. I was in my boxing class. And there's this girl that is in my classes also. And we've been boxing for about the same amount of time. And I asked her I said are you going to start fighting and she was like I kind of want to. And then the coaches she was like I'm kind of working with the head coach a little bit and the coaches were making fun of her like in a teasing way. This is just how it is in that boxing gym. They were like you better not put your hair in cornrows whenever you're fighting. Like it's just ridiculous anyway. And so I was like, man, she's like she's about to do it. I was like, why am I not going into fighting? Well, one I'm like a decade older than her. I'm just too old to be a fighter but maybe not. But then I thought so I started making these excuses in my head like, Well, here's why I'm not fighting. I've got other things to focus on. It might be a distraction for me. But at the same time I really the reason why they're not telling me I better not put my hair in cornrows before my fight is because I never said Hey, guys, I wouldn't be a fighter. If I had said, Hey, I'm not just doing this to get exercise, but I want to get in the rink. They would probably start training me in that way. So ask for what you want. is huge.

Emily Thompson: 1:02:21

Yeah, it is. Oh, it is huge. Well, and I think I think you start asking for what you want when you find the thing that you want to focus on.

Kathleen Shannon: 1:02:32

I want to be a fighter. I want to be a contender.

Unknown: 1:02:37

Million Dollar Baby right here. Fully not seen how that movie? And No, I haven't.

Emily Thompson: 1:02:43

I'm the horrible person that never watches those movies. Like none of the academy weren't babies ever. Titanic. Like that movie. Just kidding.

Kathleen Shannon: 1:02:55

Alright, but like, okay, so bringing it back to a more realistic level not boxing, right? They even this podcast, I'm getting on great guests. Like sometimes I'll look at other podcasts and go, Ah, why are they getting so and so? Probably because they ask so and so to come on their podcast. So now we ask the people that we want to come on to come on and most of the time, nine times out of 10? They say yes. Have we ever gotten to know? Well? I don't think so. Like we maybe maybe have just not gotten a response.

Emily Thompson: 1:03:27

Yeah,

Kathleen Shannon: 1:03:28

we do a podcast about podcasts. I kinda want to do it with the invisible office our guys like as a special I agree.

Emily Thompson: 1:03:35

Amazing.

Kathleen Shannon: 1:03:36

See? And so I mean, ask them. Yeah, if they wanted to ask for what you want.

Emily Thompson: 1:03:42

I agree. I think I think the some of the can, can we start summing this all up?

Unknown: 1:03:46

Yes. Okay.

Emily Thompson: 1:03:47

I think to sum this all up. You have to do what you find interesting. Period, like, I have met so many people who go to a job every single day that they hate. And it's because they're not giving themselves the permission to do what they find interesting. So step number one, do what you find interesting.

Unknown: 1:04:07

Step number two, actually do it. Don't just talk about it.

Emily Thompson: 1:04:10

Yeah, absolutely. So do what you find interesting. And then and then I think it's just about I think it's just about like enjoying your path. Like pick up your tools along the way. Learn from your experiences and your failures, and continue doing what you find interesting until it just becomes this thing that feeds your soul. For us it started for me It started with a website project and ended with a podcast that feeds my soul in a way I never thought it could for you. It started with wanting to be the best graphic designer ever. And now it is a podcast they completely love doing so you know, you start these you start these things not not needing to find your thing. I think it's about finding What you find interesting, and then

Kathleen Shannon: 1:05:04

having and then also sharing along the way, be sure to document it, capture, shape and share what it is that you're actually doing so that opportunities can effortlessly come your way.

Emily Thompson: 1:05:18

Right? And when they don't effortlessly come your way. Ask anything else, Kathleen,

Unknown: 1:05:24

I think that's it.

Emily Thompson: 1:05:25

Good. What are you gonna focus on?

Kathleen Shannon: 1:05:29

right now and again, this, this episode might be airing later. But I think focusing on New Orleans and really just getting that together right now and that event that we're hosting, and then I want to really focus on what we can make, through being boss to help more people. And then I want to focus on maybe what that next event will be after New Orleans.

Emily Thompson: 1:05:54

Oh, amen. Those are all my fun ones, too. I'm also excited about focusing on some new roles within indie shot biography. So one of the one of the exact exciting things about this podcast is, is new opportunities for me, and how does that change my focus within my business? And I think that, for me, that's stepping away from the one on one engagement, but maintaining my places like project manager, which I'm super excited about. And then just picking up tools as I go along. And yeah,

Kathleen Shannon: 1:06:23

it happened. You know, it's funny too, though, as the Fall is coming around, our brand director at braid is about to have her baby. So I'm, yeah, so I'm going to be focusing on really picking up a lot more of her work, which brings me kind of full circle back to the one on one work and being the best designer I can be. But then also layering in, of course, my coaching skills and all of that. So I'm really going to be focusing on brave creative through the fall. And another one my big focuses is our ecourse and really leveraging our branding ecourse and doing what I can to get that into the hands of as many creative entrepreneurs as possible who need help finding their focus. Thank you for listening to being boss. Find Show Notes for this episode at love being boss calm. Listen to past episodes and subscribe to new episodes on our website on iTunes, SoundCloud,

Unknown: 1:07:20

or Stitcher.

Emily Thompson: 1:07:22

Did you like this episode, head on over to our Facebook group by searching bean balls in Facebook to join in on the conversation with other bosses or share it with a friend. Do the work the boss, I will see you next week.

Unknown: 1:07:53

If you want to do hold up

Emily Thompson: 1:07:55

very bad. Come get the dog.

Unknown: 1:07:59

And Jane.

Emily Thompson: 1:08:01

I know she usually does really good shoot like we have like a thick rug it right in front of my desk and she goes lay on it. And a bit sometimes she gets up and decides she wants to walk around or fart or whatever it

Unknown: 1:08:13

is that she needs to do

Kathleen Shannon: 1:08:14

or just like Ruth

Emily Thompson: 1:08:16

make weird noises or she decides that she'd rather be outside and

Kathleen Shannon: 1:08:22

I needed Jane. No I don't.

Emily Thompson: 1:08:25

Why not?

Kathleen Shannon: 1:08:26

I don't need one more thing that depends on me to be alive. Amen

Unknown: 1:08:30

to that.

Emily Thompson: 1:08:30

I know we were probably gonna get another dog in a year.

Kathleen Shannon: 1:08:34

Because Jane Jane is getting old enough to just send her to the

Emily Thompson: 1:08:39

farm got a boat on an iceberg and push her out. Timber watch north, you're seeing that Moo and you're like an old Elijah Wood movie.

Unknown: 1:08:50

And

Emily Thompson: 1:08:51

where are you like he doesn't like his family. So he tries out other families and he goes and lives in Eskimos when their old granddad on an iceberg and push him out. I don't know I think about that a lot. Actually. That was a movie that stuck with me for a very long time.

Unknown: 1:09:09

I didn't do that to my dad.

Emily Thompson: 1:09:11

Yeah. Well, they put him in like a recliner and I think he had like a little TV and I was Blacksburg and

Unknown: 1:09:17

see hospice