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#51 - Getting Witchy with Carolyn Elliott
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Emily Thompson:hi i'm emily and i own indie typography where i help passionate entrepreneurs establish and grow their business online by helping them build brands that attract and websites that sell i help my clients launch their business so they can do more of what they love and make money doing it
Kathleen Shannon:and i'm kathleen i'm the co owner of braid creative where i specialize in branding and business visioning for creative entrepreneurs who want to blend who they are with what they do narrow in on their core genius and shape their content so they can position themselves as experts to attract more dream clients
Emily Thompson:and being boss as a podcast where we're talking shop giving you a peek behind the scenes of what it takes to build a business interviewing other working creatives and figuring it out as we go right there with you
Kathleen Shannon:check out our archives at loving boss calm
Emily Thompson:hello and welcome to being boss episode number 51 brought to you by fresh books cloud accounting
Kathleen Shannon:today we are talking to carolyn elliot and you guys i have been this so excited for this way i actually found carolyn in our being boss facebook group when she posted a link to an article that she wrote on medium about all of her bizarre philosophies that helped her go from seriously broke to her first five figure months being her own boss and yeah there's nothing nothing i love more than like a rags to riches story actually that's not true we've been getting a lot of interview requests from like old white dudes who went from bankrupt to billionaire and i'm like i'm so not interested in that but what i love about carolyn is that she's also a total witch and i don't mean that like bitch but like witchy magic which one of my mottos whenever it comes to running a creative business is that you track what you attract so you guys might know about my chalkboard system for tracking my clients but i also think that it works whenever it comes to your finances too so i was recently coaching a creative who was a total mess about their finances and felt like they weren't making the money that they wanted to make so i asked him a little bit more about how they were tracking their finances and they reveal that they're not at all so i recommended freshbooks immediately it's so easy to use it's so intuitive you don't have to have a degree in financing or accounting to use fresh books so i think that tracking your income and your expenses really just almost on a woowoo level gets you in touch with your money in a way where you start attracting more of it so try fresh books for free today go to freshbooks comm slash being boss and select being boss in the how did you hear about this section carolyn welcome to being boss
Carolyn Elliot:thank you kathleen thank you emily for having me i'm delighted
Kathleen Shannon:so i should also clarify that you are in bali i don't need to share okay so you're in bali and it is
5:30am where you are
Carolyn Elliot:yes and the roosters are accruing yes your
Kathleen Shannon:roosters like that's real deal
Carolyn Elliot:yeah those are not manufactured rooster noises there for real
Unknown:alright carolyn tell us about yourself
Carolyn Elliot:sure thing is so i run virtual courses and i edit the magazine bad witches so the courses that i teach are on writing for the social web and growing an online business that course is called thrill and the other course that i teach is called influence which is a course on practical magic so i also do some one on one work with people but mostly these days my focus is on my courses i have a doctorate in critical and cultural studies from the university of pittsburgh where i taught poetry and writing for seven years i have a book called awaken your genius a seven step guide to manifesting your way to uncovering your creativity and manifesting your dreams it's a hell of a subtitle and boy what else about me oh i have a i'm launching my own podcast In the middle of January with my friend foo, it's called Super connectors. And it's all about connecting both in the sense of networking and also in the sense of like intimacy and Heart to Heart connection. So I've been interviewing folks for that, and getting that into motion.
Unknown:Nice,
Emily Thompson:good. Oh, so Okay, I totally read your book. And I loved it. absolutely loved it, I, it's been a while since I've completed a book, I'm one of those people that will like pick one up and read like half of it, and then never pick it up again. But I kind of couldn't put this one down. And it was, it was one of the most woowoo thing I've ever read in my entire life. And do it may have been one of the most impactful things that I have ever read in my entire life. It was fantastic.
Carolyn Elliot:Thank you, Emily. Yeah, I'm just, I'm just trying to let that soak in.
Emily Thompson:It was, it was so good. I went through, and I was just like, going through all of my highlights, and I think are highlighted maybe the entire book, because I was gonna try to pick out a couple of things that like, you know, read on air so that people can like, get a taste of what it is. And like, I really highlighted the whole.
Unknown:So just read the book.
Emily Thompson:I know. So yeah, just go get it. Got it on Kindle. It was really great. over Thanksgiving, I just like I ate it up, it was so fantastic. And one of the things and one of the things that I really wanted to talk to you about today, and especially in terms of like the people that we have on the podcast, or who listened to the podcast, one of the things that you talk about is really like your responsibility to own your art and to like Own your creativity. And I would I would just love to hear your just sort of general thoughts around that, especially in terms of people who struggle with living their creativity.
Carolyn Elliot:Go, okay, so for people who struggle with owning and embodying their creativity, if they're anything like me, for me for years, it was about trying to produce something that would be good enough for external accolades. And thinking like with I can't sit down and write a Pulitzer Prize winning novel, what's the use, I might as well just jump off a bridge. Now some people like to say that like, oh, suffering genius, that's a myth. In my experience, it is not a myth, it is the realness like I can suffer so hard. And some of the most brilliant people I know are, can get really, really miserable. Because we have this faculty within us the same faculty that could be employed to create wonderful things, we can also regularly employ it to create these nightmarish constrictions in our own minds. So what became really liberating for me was when I decided that the purpose of my creativity was not to win recognition, or, you know, even entertain anybody, but the purpose of it was to create sounds a little bit corny, but to create the world that I wanted to see. There's an author, a wonderful author, Charles Eisenstein, who's written a book called sacred economics, where he talks about the more beautiful world that we know in our hearts as possible. And to me, at its core, that's what my creativity thrives on. And this really this idea solidified for me when I went one weekend. I'm not sure why, but I was in Baltimore. And in Baltimore, they have a museum called the American Museum of visionary art. And it's all of these, you know, amazing pieces by artists who are not mainstream, who are, you know, I think the non politically correct term would be outsider artists. And the main theme in that work is always the return to the Garden of Eden. Some kind of, it's like, a longing for restoration to wholeness is what repeats again and again, and some of these are, like the most, I mean, talk about creative, like, the creativity on display, there is just like so prolific and so generous. That it really into my heart, to my mind out shines, you know, the glossiest thing that the Metropolitan might be able to put up. So does that speak to your question, Emily? Yeah, absolutely. I
Emily Thompson:think that I think that yes.
Kathleen Shannon:Well, and what what I want to point out is that I think that and there's Okay, Let me stay on one one mind track here. I think that sometimes creatives feel as if they're being selfish, whenever they are being creative for themselves. And I think that's part of what owning it means is that you kind of have to get selfish, for lack of better words with your creativity. But I also see a link here towards creatives, especially women being afraid to ask for money, for their creativity and to be compensated for it. So I'd love to dig into that aspect of owning it, owning your creativity, creating for yourself and just being selfish with that, who, who cares, you know, and then also getting compensated for that as well, whenever you're being creative for people that aren't yourself. Beautiful set of questions there, Kathleen.
Carolyn Elliot:And what that reminds me of is one of my, I think of him as a mentor, even though he died a long time before I was born. But Ralph Waldo Emerson wrote a lot about how if you are able to know what is the most true thing within your own soul, like the deepest down thing, that it would take lots of introspection, lots of selfish, indulgent self discovery to uncover, then you know what is most true in the souls of others, because we are all at a very fundamental level, the same. And so that process he called the process of discovering that poetry, which is a very, you know, very different than what most people think of when they think of poetry, but that's what he thought of. So if you can do that kind of research, which is what artists do, go in, like pay attention to the most excruciating, exquisite, personal emotional details. Find the unconcealed the truth, and truth. This is where we get into another issue, which is that our culture, by and large only understands the Latin idea of truth, which is very toss, which means truth, as correspondence, truth as verification, which is a wonderful thing, and which, you know, fuels all of our science and all of our technology, this idea of like, if we can test something and make it repeat in the same way, and we can verify it, then we're good. And that's what truth is, yes, but that's actually just one tiny little facet of truth. The other form of truth with our which our culture has terribly neglected, is called, and I'm terrible at pronouncing Greek. So it's either alafia or aleafia. But it's a l e, t, h, e, i, a, I like to just say, aleafia, because it's pretty is I alternate between them. That form of truth is truth as and concealment. And the philosopher Heidegger talked about it a lot, truth as an concealment is not about, you know, matching up this and that. Instead, it's about being alive to the unfolding. presence that's happening, it's always shifting, it's always evolving. It's a resonance, it's a truth of resonance rather than a truth of verification. So that, to me, is the kind of truth that Emerson is talking about, and the kind of truth that he valued more highly than scientific truth. He said this again and again. And it was a very unpopular idea when he was saying it in America in the 19th century, that's still an unpopular idea. Although I feel like it's about to become way more popular because we're reaching an epic level of messed up bigness in our world, and that's becoming recognized. So. So so that's the piece about where there is no such thing to my mind as selfish creativity, it's impossible to have a selfish creativity because all creativity that may look selfish, is a research along the way for this kind of profound level of truth. And when it comes to the market, and selling our creativity, so what's really interesting to me is I grew up when I was a little Carolyn, I was very active and all kinds of hippie and arcus, far out weirdos scenes where, you know, the idea of selling your art was this like taboo, wicked, evil thing. And yet at the same time, you know, we were all really, really pretty Looking miserable. So, you know, part of my coming into adulthood was gradually realizing like, okay, I may not like it, but I'm going to have to learn to live. I mean, we have a society based on Commerce based on the market. And there's a way in which there's a wonderful book by Lewis Hyde called the gift. And the gift by Lewis Hyde and sacred economics by Charles Eisenstein are both really interesting that they emphasize that the main economic difference and the warp in how do I say this, that it isn't really a matter of capitalism versus socialism? Or communism? Like we've been trained to think it is? The two radically different economic systems that exist would be capitalism versus gift economy, which is what most indigenous cultures including European indigenous cultures
Unknown:had an Burning Man
Carolyn Elliot:and Burning Man. Yeah, Burning Man and the rainbow gathering. I've never been to a Burning Man, but I love the rainbow gathering because it's free because I could never afford a ticket to Burning Man. Now I could totally good now. But the Yep, so gift economy is a wonderful thing. And I understand why my younger self and and the persistent hardcore anarchists and hippies, an anti capitalists of the world really just want everything to be gift economy right now. We just like Hey, man, why why do we got to charge money? Like why can't we just give it to each other? Like, yes, that is definitely I think, you know, down the road where we need to be heading. But right now this second need to eat need to pay rent, what are we going to do? So the thing is, the answer is that there's a level of commodification that we have to enter into. And what I like to do what, and maybe many of your listeners out there, and this might be less hard for them than it was for me, maybe for them. Maybe for some it's just as difficult. For me, I like to get off on like the taboo wickedness of commodifying myself. Like To me, it's just so Oh, it's just like, the Cruella de Vil and me.
Emily Thompson:How can I get people to give me money? Yeah,
Carolyn Elliot:exactly. Not even Cruella De Ville. I'm trying to think of some better example of a villainous capitalist but yeah, it's pretty much it's like, I I'm there's, there's a way in which I don't like to sugarcoat it. I don't like to make it like, Oh, this is all fluffy bunnies. And money is just green energy and food. So we just exchange it. It's so neutral, like, Oh, no, it's not neutral. Like there's a you know, a wealth inequality happening right now, that has not been seen since the pharaohs. Were making slaves, you know, build their pyramids. Like, it's insane. And being involved in it necessarily involves, you know, you're getting your hands dirty, like I'm getting my hands dirty by participating in this capitalist economy. I've just stopped fetishizing having clean hands.
Kathleen Shannon:Boom, right. Robison, Mike. I I'm so I'm challenged by you saying this whenever I quit my job working for someone else where someone else was giving me a paycheck. And I didn't have to think about money as much or what it is the way that I was able to, I don't know, come to terms with it. On my own was thinking of money as energy. It was the way that I was able to charge more because I knew that I was putting a lot of energy into what I was doing. And but I'm challenged by what you're saying. And I think it's really interesting and I want to dig in a little bit more. One of the things that also helps me think about money and the exchange of money and versus a gift economy which I'm also incredibly fascinated by. And I you know, I didn't even know that Burning Man was a gift economy. Until a few years ago, my friend star Saint Germain Do you know star, I feel like you guys should be friends. Anyway, she is just wild and fabulous and a genius and she's just a very colorful person. Anyway, she was telling me all about Burning Man and I was so intrigued, but at this point, for me it gets so it would become so exhausting to keep track of all the gifts back and forth. And really just putting a number to what's being exchanged. really simplifies it in a lot of ways. So for example, Emma, Emily and I do a lot of work together and with each other. We're trading 1000s of dollars every month and we could just trade this purposes, but we don't want to keep track, it's easier to keep track of the money a lot of times. So I think also anyway, but I loved what you said about not fetishizing it and just being willing to get your hands dirty. So do you still inherently believe that money is bad?
Carolyn Elliot:Well, I do. Um, let me put it this way. So I think it's pretty clear, at least from the sources that I've read. So for example, there's a book called debt the first 5000 years, which makes this case in a very compelling way, as does the Lewis Hyde book I mentioned, and the Charles Eisenstein, which is that money is based on debt currency, as we currently have, it is based on debt literally, when the United States Federal Reserve wants to create more money, for example, they put a little digit in a debt ledger, and the dollar is issued. And the dollar is represented in the ledgers as you know, like, what is it like I don't even know like minus 1.1, or something like it's, it's the dollar plus a little bit of interest. So there's always this tug of interest in currency and every fiat currency around the world is like this. So the dollars aren't uniquely evil. Not evil, I'm still used. I'm just saying, I'm just talking about debt. So the so we live in a society that really revolves around debt. And Lewis Hyde and Charles Eisenstein make this really interesting argument, which is that the way that our currency is does not reflect how value is created in the natural world, right, so if so, while currency is wonderful for exactly the reason you mentioned that it can be so simple to just put a number on something rather than to like try to worry about, you know, what's happening with services. One example, I'm pretty sure I'm remembering correctly from Charles Eisenstein, as he talks about let's say, I have a pile of cabbages. Those cabbages are not going to accrue in value, the longer I hold on to them. However, money if I put it, you know, in some sort of compound interest, something rather will accrue interest, it will grow in value, the longer I sit on it and hoard it, because that's how it works. cabbages don't work that way, they will rot unless I put them into circulation. So there's a way in which debt based currency is bad in the sense that there's a built in encouragement to hoard now, like folks like you and me, we don't really tend to necessarily have the luxury of hoarding vast amounts of capital, because we are actively creating and we are actively investing and putting our cash into circulation. And I would say that the spirit of cash like this, you know, whatever we might say is, you know, that the good spirit of cash or money, which I like to think of as Hermes or mercury or something kind of like sexy messenger, God of commerce and thievery. He likes to move he likes to go go, go go. So something that I think is contrary to that good spirit is the hoarding that we see in at a large scale, you know, families like and not like I'm innocent of having shopped at Walmart have shopped at Walmart plenty in my life, but the Walton family, I mean, they control like, even know what the percentages, it's like some, like gut level shocking percentage of the wealth in America, like most of it, one family, that's an oligarchy. So there's, oh, man, and Donald Trump is a serious candidate for them.
Emily Thompson:We don't have to talk about
Unknown:where you live in Bali. Right.
Emily Thompson:I may come they're
Carolyn Elliot:part of it. I mean, it's I don't Yeah, anyways, oligarchy. So which means rule by the wealthy. That's what we have. We don't have democracy. We haven't had a democracy for a long time. I mean, Thomas Jefferson cautioned about this few of the other founding father type dudes were like, Hey, guys, I hope everybody realizes like, we let these corporations take over everything. And I think corporations do awesome things in many contexts. Like there's many corporations that my life depends on, like, you know, Apple, Google, that sort of thing. So I once again, hands not clean here. But we have a society that's ruled by them and I don't know how well that's going. But um, I think there was a question I was supposed to be answered.
Kathleen Shannon:You know, it's 530 in the morning, I didn't mean session about economics, let's say wine because money was like my eighth question for you. Oh, okay. Let's, let's rewind a little bit. And I want to ask you, kind of how do you define magic? And what does it mean like to be a witch? Tell us about that side of things. Oh, yes.
Carolyn Elliot:So these are my favorite questions.
Kathleen Shannon:I know. And this is what I really want to be talking about. Not money so much. But we had to go there a little bit.
Carolyn Elliot:Yeah. So maybe I can weave back something more sensible about money eventually, that I'll about magic and witchcraft. So the way that I think about magic, most often lately, and there's many ways that I've explained it, in many ways that I will explain it probably in the future. But what seems most relevant to me right now is that magic is a lot like lucid dreaming. So if you read any book on how to have lucid dreams, you will see that number one, the hard part is getting lucid in the first place. Once you are able to reliably realize that you were dreaming while you're dreaming. Everything else will happen. You can you know, it's that's really the hard part.
Kathleen Shannon:Unless you get so excited, you wake up
Carolyn Elliot:well, right. So that takes practice, too, right? So you, you learn how to get lucid in your dreams. And the first 10 times you're like, Hi, I'm lucid, I'm so cool. And then you wake up. But, you know, eventually you practice over time, and you become lucid in your dreams. And so this, because a lot of times when people are asking me about magic and witchcraft, they're asking me specifically about spells. So the analogy that I like to give for spells in this lucid dreaming analogy, is, let's say that you become awesome at getting lucid in your dreams, and you want to fly. So being in your dream and just saying to yourself, I want to fly now, like you would think that would work. Why wouldn't that work? Like it's your dream, everything's in your mind, like you should just be able to fly, right? But actually, that doesn't work like that. And any lucid dream manual will tell you, if you were lucid in a dream and you want to fly, you need to start flapping your wings and running, I mean, flapping your arms and running. Because that's a you know that signals to your dreaming, mind flying, taking off being like bird. So obviously that is a that's a physical sensory action within your dream. That's not just thinking the thought, I want to fly now that's like flapping my arms running, being pretending I'm an aeroplane or a bird. And then I started to fly. So that's actually what spells are, they are symbolic, physical, sensory actions that initiate a sequence within. So our daily life, I like to call it the waking dream. So the waking dream is moves slower than the nighttime dream. And in the waking dream, right if I we have these things called like, physical laws or something I've never been, I don't know, I've never been that tuned into them, but they they exist. And magic so. So what we were talking about with a lucid dream flying in a lucid dream. That's a form of magic. You know, Alister Crowley's famous definition of magic is making something happen. What is it the art and science of making reality conform to your will, I think is what good old Uncle croley like to say about magic. So that flapping your wings in a dream counts. So in in this waking dream when I perform a spell when I let's see, what's a good one that I did? Oh, so I do financial sorcery. Speaking of money. There's a great book by a wonderful man named Jason Miller called financial sorcery. I think that everybody should read it. Who is interested in witchy stuff. And then if he talks about cultivating a relationship with a god, Jupiter. Anyways, there's like sigils, and there's invocations. So I was taking a cue from him and doing some of this work. So all of that work and all of the invocation and all of the candles and all of the offerings and incense and All of that is just like flapping my wings inside a nighttime dream, and signaling that I'm ready to fly now, except in this waking dream, it happens via synchronicity rather than instantaneous results. So, there's no way to prove that magic works because it can all be coincidence. Because synchronicity is a subjective sense of, of meaning of, of Allah, Allah feha of truth is and concealment. So, in synchronicity, I realized that something in the outside world lines up with something in my internal psychic world. Now, this is where it gets really interesting. Because as you may have started to realize, as I've been talking about the waking dream, and the nighttime dream, is there is no internal and external. And that's what magic through the practice of magic, in the you know, whatever I guess we would call it the Western tradition leads to is the experience of non duality. So all all spiritual paths, lead eventually to this place of non dual experience, right. So like yoga talks about it, Tom churro talks about it. You know, the mystical sides of Christianity, Sufi ism, everything will all eventually circle round to a profound realization of non duality. And they'll talk about it in different terms, but that's pretty much what it is. So the path of magic reaches the realization of non duality, through the cultivation of desire, rather than the suppression of it, which is really cool, and is really a lot more suited to our I wish there were better words, for there have to be better words for it, because every time I say Western, I think of all of the Japanese people I know who are way more Western than me with their cell phones. But anyways, they're different than, than Hinduism or Buddhism, although both Hinduism and Buddhism have tantric dimensions, which actually resonate and align very much with what I'm talking about, which is alchemy. So a big influence on me and my work my witchcraft, so sometimes people ask me like, oh, you're a witch. Are you a Wiccan? Like? I am not. I'm not a Wiccan. Wiccan ism is neat. And my stuff, what I do is very strongly influenced by Renaissance Italian hermeticism. by American folk magic. And by Tibetan Tantra,
Kathleen Shannon:I'm technically within would that be like eclectic? Or?
Carolyn Elliot:I call it pragmatic?
Kathleen Shannon:Hey, bosses, did you have a case of FOMO
Emily Thompson:that stands for the fear of missing out when
Kathleen Shannon:you saw all the being boss magic go down for our being boss vacation in New Orleans, if you're not friends,
Emily Thompson:because we are planning another boss vacation
Unknown:this spring in
Kathleen Shannon:Miami. So it was really hard to figure out what location to go to. But we've never been to Miami. And the reason why we do these boss vacations is to cultivate our creative pack, see different parts of the world, get some FaceTime with each other, connect with each other and live the boss life. So to learn more details about this boss vacation, just go to love being boss, calm slash Miami.
Emily Thompson:We hope to see you there.
Kathleen Shannon:So okay, so this is a question too, because as some people I think are a little more witchy than they would ever let on to being so do you feel like like it's a you know, in a lot of different religions. Okay, well one is being a witch is that a religion? Can you be a Christian and be a witch? Can you be a Buddhist and be a witch?
Unknown:Oh, I love let's talk about that
Kathleen Shannon:a little bit. And I also Oh, good. You have to be like initiated to be a witch. Can you be a self proclaimed? Which can you own that?
Carolyn Elliot:Oh, hell Oh, hell yeah. Let's talk about this. Oh, this is so good. Okay, I love this. So in my worldview, absolutely. Yes. To all of that. You can be a Christian and a witch. You can be a Buddhist and a witch. Which, to my mind, the way that I generally think of it is witchiness is sort of like an inherent quality and I don't necessarily mean that as like it's not like a bloodline or something mysterious like that but it's sort of actually when i try to get concise with this a which is basically a person very often a woman who is not controlled by the patriarchy who is free thinking free creating exercising her power including her feminine sexual power and her power with symbols and you know these rituals whether or not they're whether or not this i'll just say she whether or not she calls them magic so for example to my mind there's a few like world's greatest witches among them is jesus like jesus was so witchy he turned water into wine he was always keeping the party going and he was hanging out with prostitutes and tax collectors and just basically doing weird magic stuff all the time to the point that they had to burn him at the stake crucify him so there's jesus and then another big time favorite of mine is queen elizabeth the first so queen elizabeth no so and i mean you know she was the lady who was queen during shakespeare's time right she ruled over england at probably the most her rule her rulership i would argue was what created the conditions for the renaissance in england and she took power not with a big military force she hardly had any military force she had a claim to the throne and she had a few friends who she organized into a spy network and she disseminated images of herself portraits of herself as the fairy queen titania so the fairy queen titania was a mythic figure right in the english imagination and by identifying herself with the fairy queen in the minds of the people she became that and gained power so that's a spell right there like an ad i mean proof boy i mean all of modern advertising is spell crowd it's not necessarily for the best but you know it is so she totally cast a spell and also when people would come to address her there was a rule you could not address her it's just like dear queen elizabeth this is what's happening right now in the realm no you have to be like oh queen elizabeth ruler of the fairy world's empress of my heart to whom i light up with joy every time i see i must tell you there is a tax collection happening this wednesday like you know that she used language and image and art in such a way that that's where her power came from so then she was able to rule the nation with just a spy network and not a police state not a you know in elizabethan england it was pretty much anarchie it was like there weren't any like the main laws were well pay your taxes and don't kill the queen but anything else you could get away with but so she was a great witch and she would never have called herself a witch you know she would thought of herself as something else so when i talk about somebody being witchy what i'm really talking about is this oh and other definition to weave in here also a which to me is somebody who is has integrated and owned and become okay with their shadow side who is not fetishizing having clean hands who is not trying to be some ideal of something or other but is fully incarnating fully being present in her body right here right now owning being boss like somebody who's not witchy is somebody who's scared of those darker drives sex anger power and you know integrating them doesn't mean that like you're ruled by them it just means it actually is quite the opposite a lot of people who want to be all like light and love and fluffy bunnies like i'm terrified of them because they're and i used to be one of them myself they'll you know they'll kill you as soon as look at you like they're not in control of their you know dark sides so they're repressing them which means that all the more dangerous so somebody who's owning acknowledging taking responsibility for those darker primal impulses is a lot more trustworthy a lot more congruent And a lot more, you know, powerful in general. So there's plenty of people in this world who call themselves witches. And God bless them. Perhaps they are. I'm not the ultimate arbiter of everything. But to my, you know, just my visceral reaction. I'm like, Oh, honey, I don't, I don't think you're there yet, you know, like, there. So it's, to me, it's not really a religious title. It's more like a way of being in the world.
Unknown:Which is being bossed exactly precise.
Emily Thompson:We're pretty much leaving a gaggle of which,
Carolyn Elliot:I think is what it is. Yeah. That's, that's all. That's just what I wanted to make clear. That's Yes. Precisely.
Kathleen Shannon:One of the things that I got from your article, which blew my mind, I basically shared it with everyone I know. But yeah,
Emily Thompson:well, and I also to tell you how it is that Kathleen came across this so I saw the article, you posted it in the being boss Facebook group, and we'll include a link to it in the show notes for sure. But um, I texted it to Kathleen, it was like, I don't know, like eight o'clock on a Saturday morning. Like something kind of ridiculous. I don't usually bother Kathleen at this time. And I text her this. And I was like, I can't tell if this is complete bullshit, or the greatest thing I have ever.
Unknown:Like.
Kathleen Shannon:And I was like, no thing you've ever read?
Unknown:Yeah, it was like, good. I thought. So it
Emily Thompson:was like, it was amazing. Anyway, okay, continue with one of the
Kathleen Shannon:I think one of the things that you mentioned in there, that is one of the best tools that you can employ, especially as a boss is attention, like attention is everything. And that if you can give people your attention, you can cast the spell on them, essentially, I mean, ethics aside, but
Carolyn Elliot:that's how it works. That's sheerly how it works. So I love that you bring it back to attention. And, yeah, in my experience, that's exactly what it is. So a which has liberated her attention to a large degree from her cultural conditioning that tells her to, you know, be good, be nice, be pretty, don't offend. So she's taken. So those are all attention drains, like, as long as your attention is on your conditioning, it's being drained and you're being weakened, right. So when you've liberated your attention, and other, you know, attachment and aversion, our drains in general on attention. So, boy, that would take a long time to really go into but but, uh, but our culture is built around attachment and aversion. It's built around getting obsessed with things and trying to avoid, you know, other things. So instead, that approach, like you're talking about Kathleen, like, just being, you know, free attention, having that liberated energy to put onto people and to put onto projects. That is the very essence of witchiness. Because liberated attention feels so good. Like, I'm receiving attention right now from Kathleen and Emily, I will testify you folks out there, it feels awesome. And, you know, that's, that's some witchiness pure and simple is being able to light somebody or something up, but just by putting your attention on them. That's, that's it. That's what it's about. And the thought occurred to me, Kathleen, that I have a way to tie this into what you were asking earlier about money that's maybe a bit more concise, which is just that some money as debt represents To my mind, sort of resentment, resentment, grief, holding on to something not forgiving something. And when people like my younger self, are so afraid to, you know, deal in money and get paid appropriately and whatever, I think part of that is a recognition of like, hey, this, this has like some heavy weight to it, this has baggage to it. And part of the process of getting okay with charging what I'm worth and, and all of that has to do with me getting okay with having a human soul that has grief that has resentment that has these layers in it. And when I'm willing to work with those things in my soul, I'm willing to work with money in the world. Does that make better sense?
Kathleen Shannon:Okay, here's what I want to talk about. Let's make it deep. I'm going to talk about liberation and attachment and that relationship to desire. So this is what this is what I struggle with. I want to be liberated. I want to be unattach. But good Damn, I want some things bad, you know? So tell me what do I do?
Carolyn Elliot:Yes, ma'am. So the wonderful thing is that so in a lot of initial bad translations of Buddhist sutras and tantras, folks translated the Buddha saying, you know, you need to be free from all attachments and aversions as you need to be free from all desires and aversions. And that's not that's simply not what was being said. So the energy of desire, the energy of like, longing, that's euros euros makes the world go round, like euros in a wonderful way. And, you know, that's talking about the essence of magic. That's the Renaissance. magician, Ji adorno. Bruno called euros called desire, the, what is it the vincula vinculum, which means the bond of bonds, which means it's a, it's a bond that so strong that it confines all of their bonds, it breaks all other bonds. So real authentic desire is the path to being free from attachment, actually, so. And the key to that, which I'm constantly working on mastering myself, which is maybe a lifelong project master is learning to enjoy the sheer feeling of desire without grasping at the end of it. So the grasping part, yeah, this is making sense.
Kathleen Shannon:I'm pretty sure.
Carolyn Elliot:Oh, boy. Oh, those are the words that really get me going. Guys
Kathleen Shannon:like, my, my arms are in the air because I wish you could literally two days ago, we're talking to Paul Jarvis and Jason's like, and I was like, I just want to enjoy the process. And it's everything that you're talking about right now is enjoying the desire and not being so attached to that outcome.
Carolyn Elliot:Oh, hell yeah. So sucking about our messed up culture. We have a culture that grasps for the end for climax from male climax actually is what our culture is based on. It's based on this paradigm of let's like, go go, go, go Go have a big money shot, and then we'll be done. And we can roll over and go to sleep. Right? Yeah, yeah, it's and and it's actually a drive towards numbness. And it's a drive towards, I call it the the pheno toast drive. The death drive, is this you know, we want to be numb, we want to, I mean, overeating, under eating, taking drugs, what are all of the things I mean, every every vice that you can associate with America has to do with reaching numbness so that we don't have to feel desire so that we don't have to feel the sensation of euros of being alive being attracted. And so Thanatos death, numbness, that's all great, we definitely need death, in order to have life so awesome. However, the exaggerated emphasis on that money shot is like skewed everything terribly. So Eros is life. Desire is life and talking again, about Western mysticism. If you read the foundation, one of the foundational texts of Western philosophy is Plato's symposium. So in Plato's symposium, a bunch of old Greek guys are drunk, and they're going around debating about the nature of love and what is love and what what is it for? And they finally they get to Socrates, and everybody's like, talking about soulmates and you know, nice stuff like that. And they get to Socrates and they're like, Socrates, what about you? You're the wisest man and Athens. What do you think the nature of love is? And he's like, Well, actually, I don't know anything about it. So all I can do is quote my teacher, the court isn't the witch dia tema. And I'll tell you what the team had told me and so we just quotes deity him for his whole monologue. And the essence of what she has to say is that love this arrows and arrows evolves from Eros for a particular person to Eros to the beauty and all people to Eros and the beauty and all things. Finally it evolves to euros desire for the beauty that is not beautiful and is not ugly, that pervades everything. Which you know, I think you could also say is the Dow to so desire for the Dow desire for the way of things as they are and the beauty that is not beautiful, and is not that permeates them at all times. If you can get there, well, you know, you're enlightened. And everything's awesome because you're in love with reality exactly as it is, and you're experiencing all the sensation and all this desire and all this love for everything right here right now. So you're never you know, we I think our culture has a way of like making, you know, attachment is anxious. And desire is not like desire is voluptuous and full and rich and nurturing. Whereas attachment is like grasping and uptight and starved. Actually.
Kathleen Shannon:Yeah, it kind of sounds like the difference between anxiety and worry and anticipation and hope.
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Unknown:Now let's get back at it. Emily, what are you thinking?
Emily Thompson:Yeah, I'm just I'm soaking it in
Kathleen Shannon:to talk to you for another hour. I mean, you're gonna have to go back on the show. He said, okay,
Unknown:he was super okay.
Kathleen Shannon:You are our new boss girlfriend.
Emily Thompson:Basically,
Kathleen Shannon:I could really talk to you forever about this. Um, okay, I had on my list, embracing the stuff you don't like, which we just talked about. One of the things that you said, there are a couple more things. But one of the things that you said in this article that I'm obsessed with, and I'm going to read your book, I lost my Kindle cord. And so it was dead. Anyway, and I found it. That's happening. But one of the things that you said in your article, which again, we'll link to, in our show notes, is that having is evidence of wanting, and I love that so much, because I think for better or worse, you are entirely responsible for what you bring into your life. And I hate saying that whenever, you know, my friends are going through a bad breakup or attracting toxic people in their lives. But I think in general, just taking responsibility for what's going on is huge. And that's what I really get out of having as evidence of wanting. So can you talk a little bit more about that? Oh, I
Carolyn Elliot:would love to. So a few prominent examples of this just from my own life. Um, so when I was like below the poverty level poor like sleeping on my friend's couches, standing in line in the freezing cold at the food bank, because I was like, didn't want to call up my mom and beg her to feed me. You know, I didn't want her to know how bad it was. I thought that I didn't like that. I thought oh, this is humiliating. This is terrible. I'm like, you know this I'm too old for this. How can this be happening? How did I mess up my life this much? Like, what's the matter with me? You know, this big tirade of like, why this sucks? And one day I started playing with this idea. What if my having this poverty really was evidence of the fact that a part of me an unconscious part of me, not the part of me that I usually identify with, but some part of me, freakin loves this loves that. And like that idea was just so weird. It just became fascinating to me and I began to play with it. And eventually, I noticed that when I was willing to step outside of who I usually think I am, and become open to the idea of myself as this larger being who includes the shadowy dimensions, including dimensions that, that love terrible things. I found Indeed, there was a part of me that loved the drama, love the romance of my poverty, loved having people rescue me, loved, you know, just every humiliating second of it was like, reaffirming that it was me against a cruel, cold world, you know, all of these things. And I'm not an obviously there's also systematic, oppressive reasons why I was experiencing poverty, right. Like, I my skills are, in many ways, very feminine skills, which are devalued by our patriarchal world. So you know, there's a like, on and on, there's no way to separate me from the rest of everything that's happening. So I know, this is where it gets sticky. Like, I'm not saying it's anybody's fault. I'm just saying, if you want to have a really interesting trip, and possibly completely rearrange your experience of the dream that you call your life, try experimenting with this idea. So another place where I'm experimenting with this idea with, like, right now for myself, where it's, it's less clear. And you know, and all of the people that I work with magically know this about me, is I'm pretty good on my money manifestation. Magic. Now, I still suck in my love magic, like I my history of boyfriends is, you know, my mother calls it The Many Loves of Carolyn Elliott, like, it's this rather flamboyant track record of something or other. And, you know, I have this part of me that's still longs for partnership and longs to, you know, realize that. So when I have an experience with a guy that I'm seeing, or that I'm attracted to, or whatever, and it's not going the way that I think I want it to go, I'm in this constant investigation of like, what part of me secretly loves this, like, loves this ambiguity? loves this lack of emotional vulnerability, loves this weird, addictive, controlling dynamic. What is it? And you know, I haven't really, like completely arrived at the ultimate answer yet, probably. Because when I do, I will become enlightened. And this is another thing that my mother says to me, which is like don't become perfect yet care, you might ascend to heaven. She's hilarious. My mom is like, well, she's a rough and she's a Pittsburgh girl all the way. And she has these funny sayings. But anyways, my mom helps me through this. And someday I'll figure it out. Like because I truly I do. I passionately believe that this is true that even though Kant my conscious mind thinks, no, I want my true love to be here with me right now. Like, I want the guy that I'm attracted to, to be completely all about me. Like, yes, my ego does. But a part of me wants him to, like, continue to reject me in various subtle ways forever. That would, that's what I really want.
Kathleen Shannon:You know, I had a similar experience. Um, anyone who listens to the podcast regular regularly knows that I didn't sleep for all of 2014 because my baby was up every 45 minutes. And at some point, I thought, what, like, I hated it. I was miserable. And I thought, but what part of me loves this? And what part of me is allowing myself to continue to talk about it on a podcast, you know, and it is interesting, and also kind of harsh, to question yourself in that light, but I have to share this story with you guys. Because I did a sleep spell on my little homeboy day. I don't know if it's ethical or not. And I had not been doing it for a long time, because I was worried about the ethics of it, or that I would maybe be opening him up to something that I mean, he's just a baby. But I did this kind of so what I did is I just protected his space, so not him directly, but I protected his space and charged it with sweet dreams and white light. He slept through the night. The first night I did it. So talk about like evidence and truth. It's my new truth. I wouldn't say new, it's my truth. But it is cool to be affirmed in that way. And then so immediately, it's awesome. Very awesome.
Unknown:Excellent. And
Kathleen Shannon:then another incident of kind of like I hesitate to say which he for people who might not feel entirely comfortable with that but i've talked a lot about the chalkboard method on the podcast oh yeah and that is making space and so that's what my coach jay pryor taught me and he's a total which i was telling you about him you'll have to listen to his episode anyway um is creating space for these dream clients right and someone on the facebook group was like hey how do i actually fill my chalkboard you know and they she put chalkboard in quotes and i go have you made your chalkboard yet like oh good point and it is that thing that you're talking about of like doing physical and whenever i was protecting my baby space like i thought a lot like i meditated a lot on let's all just sleep i prayed but then whenever i actually made a bubble and brought down some light and kind of like washed out the space physically that's an array started to happen and so the same thing with the chalkboard so i guess i want to talk about like maybe even other little spells or routines that people could do you don't need to go out and buy a broomstick or cauldron even though i'm so down with all that stuff but what are some things that people can do what is some practical magic that some bosses can start to employ in their business in their lives
Carolyn Elliot:oh wonderful question so when i think about practical magic i always think about hoodoo which is american folk magic african american base but with influences from european magic and hermetic renaissance magic woven in there and something that's really popular in who do oh by the way if you're interested there's a wonderful website called the lucky mojo curio company run by a woman named katherine i think i'm gonna pronounce it correctly cat urine would and there's an awesome podcast called like the lucky mojo who do our where she talks about stuff and i love to listen to it i
Unknown:get the same writing that down emily
Emily Thompson:i'm pulling it out right now because
Unknown:i want to do remember
Carolyn Elliot:yeah it's like i get the same joy out of listening to that but i think most people do out of npr it like suits me it comforts me but anyways um there's some fundamental things so i think i loved what you emphasize kathleen about the physical dimension of it so i love visualization and all that meditation stuff too but the physical dimension of it really anchors your magic in the physical world and having anchors if you know is so important for that and when i finally began doing that just like you said to your experience with your baby being able to put them to sleep so much more readily when i incorporated physical materials into my wealth magic hot damn it sure worked a lot faster than all of my vision boards ever had so some one basic practice that i might encourage would be the practice of cleaning cleaning with magical washes so putting specific herbs for specific magical intentions into your household cleaning products and sweeping out the negative energy with it you know washing it out and you know rubbing in the good energy so that's a very it's been a long time since i've done that one myself so i'm not describing it very well but if you look up on lucky mojo they have all sorts of information about how to do a wash and that's something that we all have to do right like cleaning our space so imbuing everything that we do so some of the greatest witchiness happens right while cooking dinner like imbuing that with intention and love as you're making the food that you're going to eat that you're going to feed your family um another really fun thing people in my a lot of folks in my magic course enjoy is making honey jars so a really simple love spell is like to write out your name on a piece of paper a few times or i'm sorry write out your intended beloved's name on a piece of paper a few times write your name crossed over it a few times put that in a jar start pouring some honey over it you probably also want to include like some cinnamon and ginger for some sexy spice um pray you know invoke whatever spiritual allies you want to invoke light a candle on top of that honey jar and see how it sweetens your relations with that person and talk about the earth thinks of it, Kathleen, that's interesting. And I think there's a lot whenever people talk about like, Oh, I shouldn't interfere with somebody else's will magically. I'm like, yeah, except that's what humans do all the time, every second of every day, every time we talk to each other, you know, like, we're constantly influencing. So the ethics of influence, like, you know, if I want there, I wouldn't put out something on somebody to, you know, to hurt them just because I wouldn't I don't take physical violence against people or whatever, if I don't hurt than I don't try to hurt. But if I try to sweeten my relations all the damn time with people, right, so doing that magically, doesn't really seem to be any different for me. So whatever ethics, I applied, whatever other actions I apply, so you know, having your son asleep, like. So also, there's this idea in hoodoo, which I find very fascinating, which is this notion that nothing can happen. That's not God's Will anyways, like hoodoo is a Christian based system of magic. And the idea is that everything that occurs is God's will, nothing that can happen is outside of it, whether we like it or not, whether it shocks us or not. So any kind of magic can't happen in less, you know, God, the Creator agrees to it happening. And the idea is that we are active, you know, a little bit new agey, and dorky, but active co creators, with God, or the universe, we
Kathleen Shannon:dig into that a little bit. Oh, sure. Because I'm just like me, I just, sometimes I feel like that is maybe this is my ego, talking the part of me that identifies with the unconscious sleepiness or whatever. And I'm definitely very spiritual. But whenever it comes to God's will and kind of like predestination,
Unknown:I just,
Kathleen Shannon:I feel like it can sometimes be an excuse for good and bad things like, Oh, this great thing happened, praise God. And that's good, too. But like, this terrible thing happened, oh, God must have not wanted me to have money, or God must have not wanted me to have true love, you know, whatever that might look like. It just to me feels a little bit like a cop out at times. I don't know. I don't know how I feel. I'm fumbling. Like, I'm wrestling with that a little bit, though. I
Emily Thompson:know exactly what I know where you're going with this. And the idea that using God as an excuse to keep you from taking responsibility for yourself, I think, you know, I think is that what you're talking? Yeah, I mean,
Kathleen Shannon:exactly. Kind of going back to that, and having as evidence of wanting, right. So and maybe there is it maybe maybe whenever I'm thinking that there's kind of this concept that nothing could happen without God's will, I'm still thinking of it. In my conditioning growing up as the man in the sky, kind of saying, yes, you not you versus kind of a more Butterfly Effect algorithm that's more of like a just a hum, underlying everything. But you know what I mean? Like, there could be lots of different things going through, like layered in that are bringing me to have this very an eloquent, rambling about what this means. But,
Carolyn Elliot:but it's so important. It's so important. And, and it's at the heart of how we imagine ourselves and how we imagine our creativity actually, right. Like, creation is that's what God or whatever, you know, that's what we're doing. So, so, so important. And the thing is, is that most people are just theologically boring. So I don't like to say that they're wrong. They could be right on a certain level. All I know is that I find it boring. So I'm, so when I asked myself what's interesting, what's, what stirs my imagination, what creates in me that feeling of resonance and an unconcealed moment, and truth is unveiling? Well, so. And obviously, like, Oh, I mean, I love this question. We could talk about it forever, the interplay between the into our individual will and the will of the Divine, great topic forever. But what's something that I find interesting about it is, so going back to the analogy I was talking about earlier about this being a dream. And so in this dream that I'm usually having, I usually think of myself as this character called Carolyn, who has like curly hair and a preference for red lipstick. And that's why I usually think I am right, but I'm not the stream character. I'm the dreamer. So The dreamer is dreaming me the dream character, Carolyn, and beautiful Kathleen and Emily, all the listeners out there, all the trees and the frogs and the puppy dog tails and the terrorist attacks and the horrible disease and the pain and the suffering in the world. It's all in there. And as much as you know, it could be, in a certain way, like comforting or sweet to imagine a God that conforms to my human standards of benevolence. That just doesn't seem to be what's happening. Like there's, you know, the dreamer of the dream seems to enjoy the wars and the nightmares and the pain and the grief and the illness and the death. I mean, we all die, none of us get out of this live. So the dreamers seems to like that just as much as Christmas and puppies. So
Kathleen Shannon:there's a way I think, I think what I'm hearing you say is that you are not necessarily Carolyn in this dream, which you said is an analogy, but I think it's pretty much
Unknown:not right, that's not
Kathleen Shannon:okay. So, you like who you really are like that I am, is the dreamer, which is a part of the bigger dream, which is so so essentially, maybe the Free Will I and I didn't mean to go here either. But whenever it comes to freewill and individuality, if you are of God, and I'm using God, for lack of better words, whatever you want to call it, if you are of God and of source, then your will, is that of source and vice versa. Like the lines are actually much more blurry than you being a puppet on strings.
Carolyn Elliot:Yes, ma'am. Exactly.
Kathleen Shannon:Okay. I like that I can, I can kind of grasp my head around that like I am not the puppet on strings. I am the puppeteer.
Carolyn Elliot:Right, but you're not completely the puppeteer. Right. So like I
Unknown:know, like there's like another
Carolyn Elliot:Yeah, so this is where it's complicated and interesting. So like you the dream character Kathleen, are part of the dreamer and in touch, and the dreamer hears you, right? Like your your spells, your prayers are heard, because it is you you are you It's you. So but at the same time, the dreamer is not just the dream character Kathleen, or the dream character Carolyn. So whereas the dream character, Carolyn over here, you know, like I might want, let's say I want a billion dollars to arrive on my doorstep somehow, tomorrow. I'm the rest of the dream, maybe doing other stuff. It may be just like, not that much interested in giving me a billion dollars tomorrow, because it has other interesting dream things that it's doing. So there's this way but but then again, I can also do a spell and make some other stuff happen. Like I did an uncrossing spell recently. So to uncross some bad luck, and my luck improved. So there's there's these ways in which it is responsive. It's utterly responsive. And yet, it's also this Well, maybe I'm getting abstract here too. But it is this like amazing tapestry that's happening. So there's an interplay. And I think the whole point of the dream is to realize that I am is to lose my identity with this dream character who is bound to die, who is you know, I'm bound to lose my amazing good looks. And slowly, you know, you know, I'll, I'll rot I'll be in the ground like everybody else. I don't Carolyn doesn't like that idea. That sounds like a shitty idea to me. But, you know, I think the whole process of being alive is learning to identify that larger dreamer, and not just me. So that's Yeah. Oh,
Kathleen Shannon:well, one of the things that you said in this article that blew my mind that I keep talking about is, and I think it applies to so many things that we've been talking about today is that your capacity to live in paradox is your capacity for real success, power, influence and joy. So and I feel like creative entrepreneurs of all people really need to hear this and understand it, that everything we're doing is such a paradox, you know, being afraid to create and then creating any way and, and just in spirituality and business, all of it is a huge paradox when none of
Emily Thompson:it makes sense, basically.
Kathleen Shannon:And that's and being okay with that. And that's what I'm on a path to do. And just enjoying being on that path and yeah, all of it. So, okay, Carolyn Emily, do you have any Other questions or things that you want to you're gonna have to come back on the show?
Emily Thompson:Yeah, I'm gonna have to re listen to this episode, Eric like,
Kathleen Shannon:we might just have to fly out to Bali for a beam boss retreat,
Carolyn Elliot:please. Yes. Oh my god, I know some good retreat centers. We could make this happen anyways. Yes. All right, so
Kathleen Shannon:let's put some magic in place to make that happen. We can all do a spell on it and see what we'll see how soon we can manifest that. Um, where can people learn more about you, like, just tell us where we can find you how we can join your practical magic ecourse workshop.
Unknown:Totally catalino be there.
Kathleen Shannon:I need to know for myself. Yes.
Carolyn Elliot:So on my website, bad witches, bad witch dot e s, because it's clever like that. There are little forms to sign up for my email list, my specifically magically oriented email list. So I have two different email lists. So there's that one. So if you are specifically interested in the magic class influence, which will open for registration again on January 16, my birthday. Go there, make sure you're on that email list. And you know, make sure you do the whole thing where you drag my initial email into your inbox and not Don't let it just languish in your promotions tab where you'll miss it. So that and then if you're also interested in other things that I do like my writing for the social web course, I'm a damn good writing teacher and I will show you how to get your stuff virally shared. So for example, that essay that you like Kathleen, I mean, I think was shared over 5000 times, which is pretty, pretty solid. So I can show you how to do that. And the place where you can sign up for my email list at my personal website, Carolyn grace Eliot comm so bad, which is a magazine. And I'm also always looking for submissions about magical life and about, you know, awesome things in general. So there's information about how to submit to the magazine on there, too. So if you're a writer, or if you are just an awesome boss, and you want to promote your stuff by writing articles for bad, which is a great way to promote yourself, and it was right for me. So write for us.
Unknown:Me, me, me. Um,
Carolyn Elliot:so yes, Carolyn grace, Elliot calm and bad witch dot EAS, sign up for my mailing lists. And that's how you'll find out about my offerings.
Kathleen Shannon:And I am on a mailing list where I got a series of autoresponders that talked about kind of your rags to riches story, which list is that?
Carolyn Elliot:That is on both of them.
Kathleen Shannon:Okay, so you should sign up like someone in the Facebook group asked me they were like, describe to me or have someone on that is not married doesn't have kids, like I need to know someone who is really done it on their own. And I was like, well, from what I've read so far, Carolyn did a pretty bang up job doing that. So that's like a really good story too. And I love the way that it unfolds. And I kind of already know who fu is because you introduce him to us there. So I'm really excited to hear your guys's podcast in G is it launching in January. It is also right around my birthday. Yeah, he's
Carolyn Elliot:about to fly here to Bali. So I'm excited. I've been missing him. He's been in Pittsburgh, and he's like my best pal guy, pal. So
Kathleen Shannon:yeah, wait, is he a honey jar?
Carolyn Elliot:Um, so there is deep magical secrecy. Right? I mean, so first of all, I want all of the other eligible bachelors out there who may be listening to this. Know that I am single and I am open to wonderful true love.
Kathleen Shannon:And also great guy listeners. Yeah, being boss. Like I feel like a lot of people think it's all about girl bosses. But we've got some guys listening. So
Carolyn Elliot:yeah, so Gentlemen, I am single. Hit me up, or you can find my facebook profile. Anyways, but Fuu and I we do have this Mulder and Scully dynamic in which I am older. And I mean, it's hilarious, like I find it hilarious. Um, and, you know, we have like a really productive, platonic partnership.
Kathleen Shannon:So so you'll like jump the shark, basically, if you end up hooking up.
Carolyn Elliot:Exactly, exactly. And that's so that shark cannot be jumped for at least like seven years because there's a whole media empire to be built. So that's where we are with that.
Kathleen Shannon:You just need to enjoy that if there is that Moeller Scully tension there, just enjoy that exactly. And so people always ask me who like how I got the name Fox for my son and it's actually after Fox molar on X Files I don't tell many people that but that's that's it. I'm not like a huge X Files fan but I know
Unknown:I want to believe you want to believe I want to believe I want Fox to believe.
Kathleen Shannon:Okay, well thank you so much. I this is not a goodbye because we're going to have you back. But thank you for spending so much time with us and we will include links to everything in the show notes and we'll be sure to holler at you once that episode goes live.
Unknown:Thank you. My pleasure joining us.
Kathleen Shannon:Thank you for listening to being boss. Find Show Notes for this episode at love being boss calm. Listen to past episodes and subscribe to new episodes on our website on iTunes, SoundCloud
Emily Thompson:or Stitcher. Did you like this episode? Head on over to our Facebook group by searching being boss on facebook and join in on the conversation with other bosses or share it with a friend? Do the work. Be boss
Unknown:and we'll see you next week. Alright,
Kathleen Shannon:stop recording now. Cory. Thank you. Like I like to say thank you twice. Right?
Emily Thompson:So this is the real this is the non recorded that real. Thank you.
Unknown:Yeah,
Emily Thompson:but also Do you know how I know you're our boss, girlfriend. You're the first person to ever use the podcast to get a boyfriend. You just solidified your place in boss girlfriend dumb because you did a shout out to all the single fellows
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