Authentically Detroit
Authentically Detroit is the leading podcast in the city for candid conversations, exchanging progressive ideas, and centering resident perspectives on current events.
Hosted by Donna Givens Davidson and Orlando P. Bailey.
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Authentically Detroit
Black Detroit Democracy Podcast: Confronting Homophobia in Black Politics with A. Nzere Kwabena
The Authentically Detroit Podcast Network in collaboration with Detroit One Million presents: The Black Detroit Democracy Podcast, hosted by Donna Givens Davidson and Sam Robinson!
Together, Donna and Sam illuminate the complexities of Detroit’s unique political landscape and give residents a resource for navigating civic engagement and election season.
On this episode A. Nzere Kwabena, Executive Director of LGBT Detroit joined Donna and Sam to discuss homophobia in the local Democratic party following homophobic comments made and supported by prominent members of the party. Together they explore how religious views impact political representation, mental and physical challenges affecting LGBTQ+ Detroiters, and the importance of politicians showing up for the community rather than merely claiming support.
For more episodes of the Black Detroit Democracy Podcast, click here.
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Speaker 2:The Black Detroit Democracy podcast starts right after these messages Detroit mayoral race through the lens of young people. Good journalism costs. Visit DetroitOneMillioncom to support Black independent reporting. Wake up Detroit.
Speaker 3:Welcome to the Black Detroit Democracy Podcast. Every week, we open this podcast with a reading of the preamble to the Detroit City Charter, read by the one and only Bryce Detroit. The City Charter is our constitution, which defines our rights and the way government should work. I'm Donna Givens-Davidson, president and CEO of the Eastside Community Network.
Speaker 4:I'm Sam Robinson, founder of Detroit. One Million.
Speaker 3:Thank you for listening in and supporting our expanded effort to build another platform of authentic voices, real people, in the city of Detroit. We want you to like, rate and subscribe to our podcast on all platforms. The purpose of this podcast is to encourage Detroit citizens to stay vigilant in the fight for justice and equality. With a special call to action for black Detroit, we seek to build awareness of our history as a gateway to freedom, a beacon for justice and a laboratory of liberation. Today, the director of LGBT Detroit, zaire Kwabena, has joined Sam and I to discuss homophobia in the local Democratic Party, following homophobic comments made and supported by prominent members of the party over the weekend. Welcome to the Black Detroit Democracy Podcast. How are you today?
Speaker 5:I'm great Thanks for having me. How are you Thanks?
Speaker 4:for having us on. You're coming on to our show being here.
Speaker 5:I'm excited.
Speaker 4:Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 3:I'm good. You know it's been. I was up very late last night working. I wasn't sure I would have the energy today, but I'm getting it back, so anyway I'll give it to you.
Speaker 4:Thank you, I appreciate it, thank you.
Speaker 3:So it's time for word on the street. We write down what everybody's been saying behind the scenes. Sam, what have you heard about what's going on in these elections right now?
Speaker 4:Well, these elections. You know, what I've heard is that there is a guy. He is a serial litigator. His name is Robert Davis and we know Robert as somebody that goes to the elections department in the Wayne County clerk and says, hey, this candidate has something wrong with their name or their address or whatever. What have you? And something that I'm hearing is that the address issue with Solomon Kinloch. He is the triumph pastor and a sort of second in the race according to polling that is currently available. Apparently Robert Davis is still mounting an effort to try to get Solomon Kinloch. He tried with Fred Durhall over Durhall's. You know he's the third, I think, on some of the literature he might've put. You know he's the third, I think, on some of the literature he might have put. You know he didn't put the third. And you remember the Harriet versus Helena issue Over in District 2, helena Scott is running against the incumbent, angel Willfield Calloway, excuse me, and there was some questions whether or not Helena was going to be referred to on the ballot as Harriet.
Speaker 4:That is, according to the Elections Department, settled not. Helena was going to be referred to on the ballot as Harriet. That is, according to the Elections Department, settled. She is going to show up as Helena Scott on the ballot, which that would have been a little weird. No, helena had some emails to send that I obtained. That was sort of saying, hey, if you do not put me as my name, that I have been on statewide ballots or not statewide ballots, but on ballots when she's running for that state house office. She's always been referred to as Helena.
Speaker 3:Harriet is her first name, but District 2 voters are going to see Helena Scott on the ballot, yes, so I guess it makes sense to some extent that people know who you are and if you go by one name, you don't want to get confused. I remember when there were three Lamar Lemons running for political office and it's like wait a minute, I don't know which one to vote for His wife also runs. Yes, that's right, she also ran and I think she actually became successful. Right, she made it to the state house.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and there's a whole economy with, as we see, you know, people trying to get on the ballot. Chantel Watkins told me over the weekend that she just didn't. You know, she couldn't afford to put the lawyer fees up. A lot of people told me that they felt that she would have gotten on the ballot, had she would have. There was an issue over her address. She put an apartment address where she shouldn't have. I guess.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's the type of technicality that makes no sense, Because you know, as a voter, your apartment number will not confuse me. I think the name thing is a little bit different and the address thing is a lot different.
Speaker 4:Like the name of the apartment complex itself. Yeah, I heard that.
Speaker 3:Kinlac just moved in from the suburbs. Yeah, and in time to run.
Speaker 4:There's a question over whether he voted in the presidential primary last year here in the city of Detroit or whether that was elsewhere. Robert Davis is a guy that's paid by people to do some of these things.
Speaker 3:He's great at his job. I'm telling you, he's such a muckraker. Sometimes what he does is good. Sometimes I'm questioning it, but I do think that we do want to know the legitimacy of somebody living in a jurisdiction. If Ken Locke is living here, he's going to have no problem proving it. Sometimes we just buy property places and we haven't moved yet because we don't want it. We want the benefit of being in the city without all of the perceived cost of being here. Now, I love being in Detroit, right, but I don't, you know, necessarily have the same lifestyle with some people who live in some suburban communities. So I do hope that he actually does live here and I think it's a good question to ask you know he does, he does live here now.
Speaker 4:When did he move here, is the question. That's not what I mean.
Speaker 3:I hope he was living here when he said he was yes.
Speaker 5:I hope that he has not gamed the system, so is there a question to that? Has that been a question?
Speaker 4:Yes, a lot of people are asking that you have an address, but when did you actually? Live at that residency. I think there's a discrepancy between the address and the fact that he voted in Detroit in February of last year.
Speaker 3:He voted in Detroit in February, or he voted somewhere else.
Speaker 4:I would have to go back to the Detroit Free Press story to find out that exact information. But that is the issue. Issue is whether or not, he was a resident in time of filing for the candidacy for mayor, he filed his campaign committee for mayor. Did that happen before he was living here or after? The campaign will directly compare it to Duggan in 2013. So they've been very transparent to that degree to say yes, he did not live here, but he has lived here in the time required by law.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's what I read that he had.
Speaker 4:They believe they're following the law.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and so I think it's good to just confirm that, because people want to know that. Now, the even more interesting thing to me is that he got the UAW endorsement he did. That was more interesting to me than that piece.
Speaker 4:That was the surprise of the race so far. My headline was UAW drops, mayor's race surprise With Horace Sheffield's dad and the legacy that he left at the UAW, which a lot of people will talk about Mary Sheffield has talked about over the last few months. I mean it was shocking, I would say almost. I talked to Marcus Iverson over at the Bull Building today. He's a barber over there and he said, man, this is like I couldn't believe that and that sort of changed his perspective. He said they got to take Kinloch for real now, don't they?
Speaker 5:If I may add, I wonder if the UAW endorsement really matters to a certain population of voters. To a man my age, that would have been something that would have caught my attention. But if I'm a 24 or 23-year-old voter, would it matter?
Speaker 3:Yeah, especially in Detroit. You know, maybe in Warren it would matter a little bit more than Detroit. But you know the UAW does not hire as many people in our community as it used to.
Speaker 5:And that's my point. I mean, is your neighbor a UAW member? Is your friend a UAW member? He got the endorsement. Congratulations to his committee, but to the average voter will it resonate?
Speaker 3:I'm not sure. To everybody's great surprise, he was also endorsed by the 13th congressional district.
Speaker 4:Yeah, the 13th district is chaired by his brother, Jonathan Kinloch. But it's interesting, you know, you said the average voter. The average voter is not 23 or 24 years old.
Speaker 1:The average voter is the person that is, in their 50s or 60s. Thank you for the clarity.
Speaker 4:And I do wonder how much campaigns are actually targeting sincerely young people, because I don't think that that's an effective strategy. If they are, because young people are just not voting.
Speaker 3:I think young people vote when they think there's skin in the game. I remember when Barack Obama ran the second time, I was working at the Brightmore Community Center and you know, despite feelings that many people have, that he did not do enough. There was this strong feeling that we wanted a black man in the presidency in 2012. And there were black men, young men, lined up around the block. The percentage of people voting was so high that year. A lot of times people don't vote because they don't see that there's a stake in that the vote for them. And the question is will any of these candidates change their minds? And I don't know if that's settled yet because on average, it depends on the election. If it's a Detroit election I mean local election you're definitely going to be in your 50s and 60s, but if it's a national election, you do have younger voters participating.
Speaker 5:And that's what I was going to bring up. I do believe that the young vote has had a great Zs are the targeted population that a number of politicians are seeking for their vote. You do make a great point about Detroit and its average voter and average age voter and what that vote voter is interested in, and I am curious to see and hear what would be a platform for people who are young who would move to Detroit or who would like to stay in Detroit, what kind of vision that they would bring to those residents.
Speaker 4:I'm eager to hear that. Mary Sheffield just gave that exact pitch. I guess over at where was I? I was in New Center, over near Tech Town. She was having an event with a local curator and poet and promoter, I guess you could say, and she said she wants to make Detroit like a city. You know, in the same breath as Chicago and LA and New York, we got a long way to go to compare ourselves to those places. You know, frankly, you know, in the same breath as Chicago and LA and New York, we got a long way to go to compare ourselves to those places. You know, frankly, you know, yes, it's great that we are gaining residents. Yes, it's great that we see young people sort of be upward mobile, but we're still doing that off the car companies. You know, we're still doing that off the car companies. And I don't think until you get tech and other industries in here and it's a little bit easier to be an artist.
Speaker 4:It was so interesting Mary was talking about artists feeling like there are different requirements for different genres. There's a rapper, skilla Baby, that she actually did a gun buyback program with and she didn't mention this, but I was thinking it in my head. I was there as a reporter and just sort of members of the audience were asking questions and one of the questions from a longtime promoter. He lives on the east side, I forget his name. He was saying that he felt like hip hop events are policed differently and Mary agreed. You know she didn't really have a concrete solution. She was transparent in saying that I don't know what the solution is other than like we got to be closer together, the city and businesses. You know, especially as we see this weekend, where venues are going to be activated all over the town. Yet on Cinco de Mayo, you know there are venues that are getting told on May 3rd and 4th, hey, no, you're not going to have this party because we're concerned that it's going to get out of control.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we know what white supremacy looks like, right, and we also know what ageism looks like, and those two things are very operational in the city of Detroit. Even though it is a majority black city you still have, because it's not just age, it's also race. You know, I remember when LCA opened up and Kid Rock played the first six nights at LCA. Do you remember that?
Speaker 5:I remember him opening it up.
Speaker 3:But it was not just one night, it was six nights and you had, you know this, it felt like a takeover in the city, you know, and he was escorted around by police officers and there was this rowdy crowd of Kid Rockers. I mean, kid Rock is a rowdy guy aside from everything else, and yet you know he's treated as though he belonged there. So we still have that perception. I have to say that of the young people I've talked to and I don't speak to that many I've heard more support for Sheffield than I have for Ken Locke by far, and part of that is people having feelings about his perceptions of homophobia in the church, or the fact that you know they are. You know they believe that it's immoral and it's on the church website that was brought to my attention, and so when we come back, we're going to talk about homophobia and the Democratic Party. Taking a break, I'll be right back.
Speaker 7:Hey, listeners, I'm here to tell you about the show me, the Monday event that the East Side Community Network is hosting on Saturday, May 31st 2025, from 11 am to 3 pm Amazing workshops at this free event for the community for gaining financial empowerment. We have some amazing panelists at this event, such as Shakina Milbourne, attorney from Upton Law, real estate mogul Maynard Neal, as well as our Congresswoman Haley Stevens, and finishing out is Art Cartwright. We also got some amazing resource vendors that will be present, such as you Snap Back, Michigan at Works, Salvation Army Wellness Plan and many others, so we invite you to come to this event. I am Conrad Colwell, the Economic Community Development Manager and Business Advisory Coach for the Mass Detroit Small Business Hub. We'll see you all there.
Speaker 2:Have you ever dreamed of being on the airwaves? Well, the Authentically Detroit Podcast Network is here to make those dreams come true. Formerly known as the Deep Network and located inside the Stoudemire, the Authentically Detroit Podcast Network offers studio space and production staff. To help get your idea off of the ground, just visit authenticallydetcom and send a request through the contact page.
Speaker 3:And we're back with Zaire Kwabena To talk about homophobia in the Democratic Party. It's an important topic for me and it's important on a number of levels. First of all, because it's so backwards that in our community, in the city of Detroit, we are still holding on to these very antiquated messages of mindsets around morality, whether it is, you know, we don't believe a lot of people in the church don't believe women have the right to make reproductive choices on their own. They don't believe that men have the right to, or people have the right to make reproductive choices on their own. They don't believe that men have the right to, or people have the right to, make decisions about their sexual partners.
Speaker 3:And it really, to me, limits the impact and effectiveness of black Democrats in Detroit to negotiate and be influential outside of Detroit. So I think, as we look at addressing and resisting, what we're really seeing is hateful agendas coming from other places. That you know, my new slogan is love is resistance, and the more that we can extend love and, you know, just embrace and include more people in our circle of influence, the more effective we're going to be at our own freedom and addressing our own goals, and we kind of talked about that a little bit even before you got here, sam. I think we talked about the politics of self-interest, and so what are your thoughts on all of these topics, zaire?
Speaker 5:LGBT Detroit has been around for 30 years. I'm very proud about our impact right within the state of Detroit One of the reasons why we're in business because there was a time that LGBT people thought that they could not be themselves within the Detroit city limits this story, which is a public story, something I talk about all the time. It talked about. I talk about what people felt, about what LGBT is and where LGBT is, and so we understand that whenever you're talking about freedom, particularly freedom around identity, you're going to sit next to someone who believes differently about that freedom. We understand that what LGBT Detroit has done is commit to the city by investing in the city and being right in the neighborhood so that we can make change right to our neighbors who live next door.
Speaker 5:I recognize at the 2016 presidential election, when we thought that the most qualified person was definitely going to win the presidency, we found out that the nation felt differently and I think that was, in most recent years, an understanding of this mood in the air about how people thought about others, and I recall everyone questioning who are we? I'm like I told you earlier, I am a Gen Xer with baby boomer tendencies. I was taught and raised that you go to school, you work hard and if you're qualified, you should get whatever comes your way. As long as you work hard, do the right thing, you should get what you want.
Speaker 3:You went to Cass, didn't you? I sure did I'm a green and white.
Speaker 5:You know, yeah, I'm a green and white. But like any Detroiter, particularly blue-collar Detroiter, I understood the assignment and so I paid attention, from that loss of the Clinton campaign and, of course, the winning of the Trump campaign, to understand who we are. And I've been not only with my interests, particularly the modern civil rights issues and health crisis of the HIV AIDS epidemic. I've seen how unification and strategic planning change things. I am a living product of the good news of organizing successfully. I recognize that things are different now and I recognize that you as a young person may not know who Harvey Milk is. You may not know who Barry Rustin is before the movie came out. You may not know of who Mary Mahaffey was. I just had a meeting with some young professionals who we had to introduce to them.
Speaker 5:Mary McAfee, former city council president, who paved the way for people like me to be free, the city of Detroit being the first American city that protected LGBT people. It's a story I tell all the time and I say to people all the time being from the middle of America, we're very practical. As an openly gay man with a partner, we've been together almost 30 years. We live on the West Side. I'm a former block club president. Everyone knows our names. My front porch is the block club clubhouse. I know what it is to work with and be with and love my fellow person. I struggle because, again, if I have a certain life experience and you are of a certain age, of a different age, I see where a gap would be and the job is to continually close the gap, because there are people born every day, there are people aging every day and some issues which you may believe that only impacts you. I argue that as long as we are residents in Michigan, residents on whatever side of town, residents in Detroit, we have a shared interest. We drive on the same streets, we go to the same McDonald's and we usually go to the same places where we see a ball game or a concert. So being together and working together really makes sense for us to be in fit all.
Speaker 5:And I leave this. Lastly, it's very important that we don't change, but we change the laws. I'm a Detroiter, I like being here. I grew up at a time when I was told, and my friends told me, that in order to be free you have to leave the city, and a lot of my friends in the late 70s and early 80s left to go to DC, new York and California. I resisted that. Though I left to go and get my education, I came back home. Because this is who I am. I am interested in anybody who can help create space that we've done to make people like me safe in their own neighborhoods with their moms and dads and with their children.
Speaker 3:Thank you. You know a couple of things. First of all, you didn't just work at LGBT Detroit. You founded it, didn't you? I did All right. So I just wanted to make sure that we recognize your work in making that happen. And my first job was as a professional was at Community Health Awareness Group that's right, dealing with HIV AIDS.
Speaker 5:Still our friend, you're still friends Still our friends Community Health Awareness Group, led by Cindy Bolden and the great Barbara Jones, two of the most important people that impacted my life. I grew up underneath them. They're my big sisters. I'm very proud of the work they've done for all of us.
Speaker 3:So I think we have a mutual friend in Cornelius Wilson.
Speaker 5:Yes, also.
Speaker 3:Cornelius and I. I didn't meet Cornelius there. We lived in the Belcrest Apartments. We were friends.
Speaker 5:We used to hang out. 5-4-4-0 Cass Avenue.
Speaker 3:Right, we lived there and we used to hang out. And so my mother was working to find a place to land and I was volunteering at the Community Health Awareness Group and eventually they ended up hiring me as a secretary. Oh, wow and yes Underneath.
Speaker 5:Harry.
Speaker 3:No, no, no, no no. This is Ron Turner.
Speaker 5:Oh right, right, right, Ron Turner.
Speaker 3:Harry was actually a social work intern. He interned under my mother at the health department. There we go, and then he was over.
Speaker 5:But Ron Turner. I had a chance to meet Ron Turner.
Speaker 3:Oh yes, and he's an amazing person because he doesn't age. I know it's crazy how young he looks, but I was working there and so Cornelius was my friend and so I say, cornelius, come work with me. So I actually feel like I got him into that work when he first got in because I think he was doing he was in sales or something like that but we were really good friends at those times and I remember working in a community and I realized that in Detroit it seems to me as a homophobia has always felt different. It hasn't. Although there has been the hate. It's almost as though there is don't ask, don't tell as a culture Like I don't want to know what you're doing, but as long as you don't tell me you're cool and people can know that somebody is gay, but they just don't want to know that they are, you can't acknowledge that.
Speaker 5:If I may jump in. So first I want to say what a pleasure that the six degrees have gotten even smaller, because if it wasn't for Cornelius Wilson, I wouldn't have met you. Cornelius Wilson founded the Men of Color Motivational Group in his response to the HIV AIDS epidemic. He created a safe space for people who are predominantly gay and by black men to come every Tuesday at St Matthew's Joseph Church on Holbrook and Woodward to meet to fellowship and to heal. And I found community there. And because of Cornelius and because of my volunteerism, underneath him the company was founded. Oh wow, and so I love him. He's going to be highlighted at our 30th anniversary of Holiday in July reception at the museum. He'll be featured, as he should be, along with Robert Tate, who's another elder.
Speaker 3:And I will try to make it this year.
Speaker 5:Oh, I hope you will. At least. I would love you to come to the reception.
Speaker 3:I would love to come to the reception. You know I was the speaking of the church right, I was the person who facilitated the support group for people living with HIV AIDS and you know in the 80s that meant people dying from.
Speaker 1:HIV AIDS, exactly yeah.
Speaker 3:And so I led the support group. Most of the people in the support group I was a young person. I was just really fascinated with the stories and the many amazing people and that's what led me into this work because people would say to me you know, my life has never been better since I had AIDS and then they died.
Speaker 3:It was so crazy because we built this community and we provided so much support to people, and I thought to myself, what if we intervened in people's lives when they were young so that they didn't end up here? And so community development became my path.
Speaker 5:So I'm going to say that you did intervene. If it wasn't for our mothers, our sisters, our female cousins and our aunts, we wouldn't be saved. You saved us. You've already intervened For you to be the backbone, particularly of at-risk gay men, young adults in Detroit. You have intervened, you have saved us. You have not been celebrated enough for what you've done for us. You have always been our heroes and so I say to you, I say to all the women in my life, all the women that, and our female teachers, Mrs Stevens from God's Tech, you've all have intervened, you all have done our work. We wouldn't be here today if it wasn't for you. So I wanted to say thank you. Thank you because it matters. Don't think what you did has been forgotten.
Speaker 3:I don't, I don't. I was going to say thank you and what I didn't know then because I was not a mother then and then I had three children, and my youngest, my baby, is gay and I probably knew when he was about four, when he was about six, people were calling him a faggot and I hate to even say that word because it's hurtful when he was in middle school, one time somebody took a picture of him looking at another boy and there were death threats and so he told me in August I can't go back to school because they're going to kill me, and I had to change his school. And at this time he's very much closeted, very much. You know, he's got girlfriends, beautiful girlfriends, all the time. Right, of course he does Very, very, very, very popular with the girls, but sometimes I try to start the conversation with him, with the girls, but sometimes I try to start the conversation with him. But the thing I really wanted to point out because what was so hurtful to me?
Speaker 3:There was somebody who posted on social media something that described a man who was running for office. This politician, well-known person, said I don't care who you're pegging. And then someone referred to LGBT rights as bedroom politics. And I'm saying my son was four, he was five, he was six, he was pegging nobody, he was just trying to exist. He was on a baseball field and he was standing some way and adults made fun of the way he was standing while he was playing baseball and you know he got so much criticism from his father and by the time he was in middle school he was so good at covering it up you wouldn't know. I believe he was an athlete, he was a track star, and you know that is not.
Speaker 5:That is not an uncommon action amongst young LGBT people.
Speaker 3:Exactly he had to. He learned how to mask who he was, which then put him in hell, and so it's very painful to me as a mother and I tell people when he came out I came out right I had to come out and say my son is gay, because, you know, before I'd I've never been intolerant, but at this point it's fighting words. Okay, he's me and I'm him, and, like many other mothers, I just embrace that, if I may.
Speaker 5:Yes, when I have the opportunity to speak, I tell people there are two coming out stories. If a young person makes the brave action to come out, that's one story, but when the parent, guardian or elder who's associated with the child comes out, that's the second part, and that's a part of the narrative that needs to be uplifted more. And so, when there's space, I'll often ask the parents, guardian or the elder, particularly a grandma, because nobody loves a child like a grandma. That's right. I ask them to please tell the story of your coming out, because coming out isn't just a one-sided story.
Speaker 5:When I think about how other communities have been developed in certain parts of America, I think about how many of us, as I said earlier, choose to leave. You develop this kind of other sense of family that has this agreement that determines how we develop. Usually that happens when you're an adult. What I celebrate, particularly in Midwest cities and some Southern cities, some Western cities, is what I've explained to you that the family unit, which I do believe is a very strong unit, who wants to be with each other, use whatever tools, particularly, you know, maybe a therapy or some other kind of mental health facilitation to examine what can we do to keep the family healthy Because, like you said, with your son, your son did something to protect himself. Most lesbian, most young bi women do the same. That's right. There is an incredible health risk to that. You may be protecting yourself from physical harm, but the mental health could be so damaged and I meet people who are 50 and 60 coming out and already have three or four children. You know married for the wrong reason.
Speaker 3:I met them it's so painful. I met them when I was doing the HIV AIDS work, right, and now they're dying, and now their partner has it and she found out he was, you know, down low when she got tested. I mean it was the stories, right, and so I never believed in the closet. I believe nobody should be closeted in any aspect of who they are. We all have the right to live free. So I want to get back to politics in Detroit, though right, Because we can have friends, and I mean most people.
Speaker 3:When I was working at Second Ebenezer, one of my staff people was on the praise team at the church and everybody knew he was gay but nobody talked about it unless they were whispering and they were still talking about plugs and sockets and all of that other kind of stuff in the church. It was still very much a, you know, conservative conversation, and he's living there and he's listening to that and knowing that, and so it's like he's not quite in the closet and he's not quite out of the closet. Everybody knows but nobody acknowledges it and politically, where it shows up to me is that if we're not going to acknowledge it, we're not going to stand with people when it matters. At times when it does matter and my concern is not because we're I mean as a people we're loving right. We love people. We don't throw many people away.
Speaker 3:I used to hear stories about people throwing people away. You can come home. I might talk about you, but you can come here. I'm going to look at you funny and try to introduce you to this nice girl over here, but I'm not going to throw you away. I didn't see a lot of that right. But at the same time, the lack of acceptance means that we don't necessarily take actions that protect and include, and I want to know what kinds of actions still need to be taken, because, yes, detroit protects people, but at the same time, we still have people like Cornelius, for example, is trying to find housing for men who are was trying to develop housing a couple of years ago when we spoke for men who are aging, gay men who are aging. What kind of political needs are still being under-addressed in our community?
Speaker 5:We were very fortunate for the past three years to work on health disparities, particularly those who are LGBT and LGBT. Detroit that resides in an almost 80% populated black town. You have to meld gender orientation and race. We live this company lives in that intersection, and so we have to understand what are the health disparities of what it is to be African American and what health disparities to be LGBT, and with those separate discoveries that are then linked together, this is when we can say for mental health facilitation. There definitely is an increased need for people to have access to mental health care that is free and accessible. We talk about chronic care management. Yes, HIV has literally changed where there is to be LGBT, but there are some LGBT people with diabetes, who are obese, who have hypertension, these other chronic illnesses that have to be maintained, as well as your HIV status.
Speaker 3:What happens at the doctor's office? Do people feel free to really get the kind of care and disclose to their doctors what they need to?
Speaker 5:And that's a very good question.
Speaker 5:If you go to a medical facility one thing I'm very proud of Detroit, michigan, has a number of health care facilities that you can either take the city bus or you can walk to, if you live in a certain area, to get some kind of care.
Speaker 5:You can argue the type of care, whether it's good or bad, but you have access to some care.
Speaker 5:But to your question, there are some health care providers nurses, and primary, maybe secondary care providers who have very limited experience on what it is to treat an African-American, almost zero experience to what it is to treat somebody who is attracted to the same gender. And so I've witnessed with my own eyes, as a former healthcare advocate and who I talk to constantly, what it is for somebody particularly if the healthcare provider is a recent resident of Detroit, michigan or the United States who may bring their bias to the room, to examination room, and, as people have told to me, say things that would impact their care. So there is still a need to understand who are the type of people that are caring for us, how they're being taken care of us, and I share with you and you should know this one of the things that LGBT Detroit did, which I'm very proud about, is that we invested in ourselves and acquired our third property, which is a new initiative called LGBT Detroit Health.
Speaker 5:So right on 6th Mount Rutherford, we are organizing a way to take care of ourselves from professionals who understand who we are. So in this place, mental health facilitation, chronic care management, nutritional education and physical health are the examinations to where we think we can impact people's lives.
Speaker 3:So Neal. One more thing my son is in LA I've told you this right and I want him to come home. Of course I'm a mom and bear like that and he won't come home and he says he may, you know, sometime in the future. But his perception of Detroit is that people here are very closeted and he has to hide a lot and there's not that many spaces for him to go and be free like there are in LA. And so as much as I think we have progress here, there's still the perception by some people that there's not. And you know, there's still people, I've heard, who have felt pressure to remain closeted, especially when they reach certain positions, because of the blowback they may get. Have you observed that, or is that something that you haven't observed in your walk?
Speaker 5:That's a great question to ask and I want to examine what you said earlier about politics. That's a great question to ask and I want to examine what you said earlier about politics. So I live in Detroit, michigan, and our current mayor is running for governor. He at some point had many religious leaders behind him supporting his race. So I recognize for some people, the church has a major role in defining what Detroit is, and so, yes, we've had successes. Lgbt Detroit is the largest African-American-led LGBT organization in North America right here.
Speaker 5:So I'm proud of the progress. I will say clearly we're not Los Angeles, we're not DC, we're not New York. We're not Los Angeles, we're not DC, we're not New York. With that said, many of the people that live in those places, they want to come to Detroit because they don't have what we have.
Speaker 3:Okay so. I need you to reach out to Phillip.
Speaker 5:Oh, no problem, and I need you to hook him up so he can, having this kind of population behind him. Your son would see, and may believe still, that faith leadership dictates the curation of our city.
Speaker 3:I mean, he goes to clubs and he goes places and he sees things. You know, it's not just that.
Speaker 5:Yeah, but I just want to say the importance of that to address your question, probably because your son is the only person that asked that of Detroit.
Speaker 5:Is Detroit free? We've had for decades this blue collar, anti-creative, no one else is welcome kind of mentality, because if you didn't work for Chrysler or GM, you were considered not a Detroiter. Well, it's taken a long time to get an understanding that we can be something else and during all that time there were gays here. People don't talk about the LGBT impact on the Motown Record Company, the biggest Black business in America for many years up until 1984, and what LGBT people did, particularly those who helped make the Supremes, the Marvelettes and the Vandellas beautiful and who bought major homes in neighborhoods where black success was able to afford. So I've seen us and I'm this child of those people who've done great things for us. I just recognize that, if you are believing and people have told me that there have not been progress, our job is to maybe share with you why there is progress and what you can do to help perpetuate that progress.
Speaker 3:I think we're going to take a break and we'll be right back.
Speaker 2:I'm Orlando Bailey of Outlier Media and, authentically, detroit, and I'm Jair Stays of Daily Detroit. Detroit, we've got something special coming up that you won't want to miss.
Speaker 6:That's right. Orlando. At 10 am on Sunday, june 21st, we're bringing together Detroit's mayoral candidates for an in-depth community forum right in the heart of the Eastside.
Speaker 2:This isn't your typical candidate event. We're talking real issues, real solutions and real talk about Detroit's future.
Speaker 6:Join us at the Eastside Community Network at 4401 Connor Street in Detroit from 10 am to 2 pm.
Speaker 2:We'll be joined by my Authentically Detroit co-host and community leader, Donna Givis-Davidson, to moderate this important discussion.
Speaker 6:Space is limited, so make sure to RSVP through the Eventbrite link in our show notes. Oh, and on that form, there is a spot for your voice to be heard, to help shape our questions and the conversation.
Speaker 2:That's right. Whether you're a longtime resident or new to the city, come by ECN on June 21st. It's your chance to hear directly from the candidates who want to leave Detroit.
Speaker 3:So thank you, and of course there's progress and you've done amazing work in hotter than.
Speaker 5:July.
Speaker 3:We've done amazing work when I say you, your team, your community has done amazing work, and nobody you know this, nobody who runs an organization can take credit for what the organization does. Right, Because if it wasn't, for everybody else, nothing's happening, and so I appreciate you recognizing that and pointing that out, but under your leadership, great things have happened, thank you. I think that that's really a wonderful thing, and that's the reason I really want to connect with you. How can we then translate some of this? Because I hear what you're saying and yet I well, I want to bring Sam in.
Speaker 5:And Sam, thank you for being on.
Speaker 3:You are our you know journalist here. You're the one who's talking to people. What are you observing on the trail? Do you perceive there is still this nascent level of homophobia in our community that can be addressed and should be?
Speaker 4:Well, you know who you should ask about this is Aaron Foley. I talk to him all the time and he would have a million things to say about this topic where I just don't. I do see that my colleague, my former colleague Annalise Frank at Axios, was the first to sort of put this into people's blinders that on Triumph's website there is a declaration that marriage is between one man and one woman. Annalise is a gay woman herself. She asked Solomon about this directly. I've asked Solomon about this directly. Solomon says you know, the church is the church, the city is the city. For the people that are wondering, you know if there's going to be some sort of merging of church and state, no, that is not what I plan to do.
Speaker 3:He's saying he wants to be a full-time pastor and full-time mayor.
Speaker 4:You know it's interesting, I speak to somebody that helped Senator Warnock get elected. He is on the board of the church that he's the pastor of says when Warnock came to the church that he is a member of the board on. This man is named Warren Lee. He owns a bookstore in Atlanta, georgia, called 44th and 3rd Street Books I believe. So shout out to, warren and his wife were at Source Booksellers on Cass and I just so happened to be in there and I asked him hey, what do you think about our pastor running for mayor? Two very different roles a US senator versus a city mayor. You know, for some people that don't understand, I guess, government or politics in the way that we're living it every day, the city mayor has a lot more day-to-day responsibilities than a US senator. That has a team of staff and you know a break in their schedule of going to and from you know their home, wherever they're representing, and then to Congress, to DC. You know Solomon wouldn't have to fly anywhere.
Speaker 3:No, he wouldn't. You know, Solomon wouldn't have to fly anywhere. No, he wouldn't.
Speaker 4:He would still be on Sunday doing that circuit of seven different locations and that's what he's doing is on Sunday, every location. He is there in a window, you know an hour and I think it's like a 90 minute service each one and you know it's from, you know, detroit to Southfield, to Flint.
Speaker 3:I mean, I've been to a service and I actually actually enjoy his service A lot of people do.
Speaker 4:A lot of people have also paid.
Speaker 3:So my son, did his service when he was in high school. He wanted to go to church because he thought he was going to burn in hell and he thought maybe if he'd go to church he could save his soul. He didn't tell me about the burn in hell thing until after the fact in the Summer Leadership Institute with Warnock in 2002.
Speaker 3:It was 2001 to 2002. I think it was 2002. And I actually really liked him a lot. Yeah, there was. It was given by the Divinity School at Harvard and also the Kennedy School of Government. And so, pastor, oh my goodness, I'm from Hartford. Pastor, who's the pastor who just passed away at Hartford?
Speaker 5:Adams.
Speaker 3:Adams. Pastor Adams convened this and one of his former ministers was in California and he was an openly gay pastor. The amount of homophobia that took place in that setting was insane. Grown men would turn over his. We had name plates. They'd turn over his name plates and write just hostile epithets on these name plates. And I'm looking at this like this is crazy. And Warnock was my friend. He was like one of the only other people there who thought it was crazy and we were like you know trying to fight them.
Speaker 3:And so what I found was, first of all, they didn't want me there because I was a woman, right, and they didn't want Mark there because he was gay, so what the heck? And Warnock was actually a real stand-up individual then. So I'll always appreciate him because he was my friend at a time when nobody was. He was an amazing pastor, I mean a preacher. He got up, he preached our last day and he had everybody standing up. But he also did not sell out his values then, and I hope and pray that he has stayed true to those values even now in his Senate role but also at Ebenezer Church. But I followed him since then and just watched his rise with pride.
Speaker 4:The comparison is one that the campaign likes to make also.
Speaker 5:So I'm interested in meeting Solomon Kenlock. I've never met him. He has been invited to our mayoral candidate forum. He's not responded. I hope he responds. I hope he does what day is that. It's going to be Friday, july 25th, at the University of Detroit, university of Michigan Detroit Center, on Mack and Woodward.
Speaker 4:So that one's 10 days away from the primary. I know, and that's why I thought ours was one of the last ones.
Speaker 3:Ours is June 21st. I was like did we wait too long?
Speaker 5:No, no, yeah we're going to be close. Matter of fact, we have two people who have confirmed, which I'm really happy that the Sheffield and Jenkins campaign has said yes. I know a number of people are asking me has Kenlock accepted? And I've told them no. I've not heard from them. But there's a close person who has said to me that he will attend and the reason why they're asking that is because he's a faith leader. He will attend and the reason why they're asking that is because he's a faith leader. Historically, LGBT people will have conflict with those who would have had that position of the marriage question. We also seen, as Obama has famously noted, that you can switch a position. What is the term when you change your position? Flip-flop, Not flip, not that word. That's a much more polite word when you change your position and the Obama campaign at the time did do that. I think the Obama presidency did that before by the second term.
Speaker 3:I forgot the term.
Speaker 5:I know, yeah, I remember he— the term they become not the word evolved, but the word is. So I don't know. I did not know that the Kenlock Church position is what you said.
Speaker 4:I'm not surprised at that. I know that there are openly gay members that are Triumph members as well, and that's something that the campaign has talked about Solomon will talk about. Solomon will say you know, as a pastor and as a mayor, if elected, I intend to serve anyone, no matter what your.
Speaker 3:And I did ask him that question when we interviewed him and he at that time also said that anybody was welcome in this church. And I said are they welcome by everybody or by you? Because sometimes the church can have and he's a very nice person. I'm going to say this when we joined and he met Phillips, he shook his hand, gave you know, very complimentary, so he's a very nice person. I think he is genuine in that sense. Whether or not that translates into justice is the question, and justice is dictated by public policy. We need better public policy around some of these things. It's ridiculous to me that we still have people in positions where they're afraid to come out because they're afraid of consequences.
Speaker 5:And that's what I meant, or that's what I mean in my attempt to address his particular campaign, because I can't recall a reverend in recent memory seeking the mayoral office. I just wonder, like again, I have family members who are Triumph members, so I understand his church has an impact to the city. I know there's a quite significant size membership. I just wonder to the voter, particularly to the people that I serve, would the knowledge of his pastoral position matter and would he publicly say what you just said?
Speaker 4:I do wonder why he doesn't just remove that off of the website, and I've asked, I do wonder why. Is it something that he can't control?
Speaker 3:It's church doctrine and a lot of times that church doctrine doesn't change. You have my friends as a pastor. I grew up with him, brian Ellison, at Church of the New Covenant, and he performed a gay marriage about 10 years ago. The organist left half the choir, left people, and people started to really attack him. Now he's pastor of this church and for a while I belonged to church but the people were just too mean. I was like I can't deal with all these mean people on Sunday. You know this doesn't feel like Jesus, but I mean Brian is wonderful, right. But they you know this doesn't feel like Jesus, but I mean Brian is wonderful, right. But I'm saying that to say I saw him. He's performed gay marriages. He just did it again, he told me a couple of years ago. So he's not going to not do that. He's my brother from another mother. That's why I love him, because he does act on his convictions, one of the best preachers and one of the best people I know.
Speaker 3:But there's a consequence. You pay for that and you know so. Even if you're a pastor, people have an expectation that you carry out their bigotry, that you carry out their hatreds. And unfortunately, you know, because my only issue around this and it's been something I've been struggling with for years is people call themselves Christians and they have absolutely nothing Christ-like about them, and it's like I don't know if they read the New Testament or just left that one alone and stayed with the Old Testament. And is that still Christianity? If you don't embrace, you know, judge not lest you be judged. If you don't embrace all of what Jesus talks about in terms of the greatest of all of the characteristics of love.
Speaker 5:So let me bring this back to your son. If the church struggles and I live on the outside, I don't want to be a part of the struggle. I'm going to choose to stay in my location, and so, again, I refuse to change myself. I'm going to change the law, I'm going to change the environment, and so the work is to engage with those people so to understand that their positions, their policies impact their fellow neighbor, and so, as a neighbor, I should come with love and say what you've adopted, what you live by, has negative impact on me. To your point about that statement being published, I should be able to say to the pastor you know, I'm your neighbor. You're running for mayor. Do I really believe that? You believe that? Or are you changing your position just to be elected? I've asked that for other politicians, for other reasons, but I'm a Detroiter. I am invested in this.
Speaker 3:I believe he believes Go on.
Speaker 5:To your son, who may not be invested. Well, you know, I don't want to come to Detroit, I don't want to be a part of this because it feels uncomfortable.
Speaker 3:I'm not saying that's right, I think it's a matter of I feel free when I'm in other places, and I'm not sure I'll feel free here. Well, that's my point. Lately he has enjoyed coming home more and it's getting better. Well, it is better. We're going to hold out hope. But I think that, going back to the question, he did not disavow those beliefs that marriage is between a man and a woman. What he said is that that's his faith belief and that would not cause him to treat people differently. And so I can believe that you are a sinner and not discriminate against you. Although I believe you're a sinner, the question is around the mental health impacts of me treating you as though you're a sinner because of who you are.
Speaker 5:And so, as someone this goes back to your question about going back to Detroit politics Do I believe you? Do I believe that you will treat me differently? I don't know you, you're a candidate. I'm not a member, I'm not a fan. I'm not a member of your church, I'm not a fan of yours, I don't live next door to you. You're a candidate and if I've discovered this position that you've made a life of, would I be treated differently? And that's the question for the voter to ask and for the candidate to answer.
Speaker 3:And that's why you should show up at your forum.
Speaker 4:So few of these candidates are at these forums saying what they believe. It is so clear that, through consultant speak and through sort of wanting to say the right thing, that they're regurgitating the same lines at all of these forums and I wish we would have more just, genuine beliefs Like I believe this.
Speaker 3:I believe that we're going to have a debate. We're not having a forum.
Speaker 4:I believe, in debates. We're going to see one on Macon.
Speaker 3:We're going to have a debate. We're going to have an absolute debate when they come here.
Speaker 4:I hope so.
Speaker 3:And you know my questions are never going to be the kind of questions that they can ask, for I'm going to say do you believe that we should dissolve the Downtown Development Authority? There is no campaign speech around that. Yes or no, sure, and if not, why not? I think that the questions are things like what would you do to improve Detroit public schools? I don't want to know that. I want to know if you support this legislation. If you support this policy, where do you stand? We are giving them too much bandwidth, and you know that's the real problems in our politics. Is that that's the way we approach it? Okay, communities that build power, do not ask politicians what they will do for them. Communities that build power say if you're running for office, I need you to do this for me.
Speaker 5:Exactly.
Speaker 3:Okay, we're not giving you an out and we're not asking you to have all the great ideas, because the smartest people in America do not run for office. We're really smart in our own communities and we need to use our intelligence to help guide what they do.
Speaker 3:That is the point of helping to create a Black Detroit Democracy podcast is because we've got to start putting out the issues and put out our demands. I have a question for you Are there any political demands that you have of local candidates, statewide candidates or at the federal level? What needs to be done?
Speaker 5:We are investing in Detroit. We have invested in Detroit. I'm not even going to say investing, we have. We're going to expand in our investment. So we worked with contractors, we worked with designers, we work with people that will help to make Detroit safer and inviting to people that look and love like me. So I'm asking those who have access to policies that will create safer environments, that will have access to capital and departments that will increase the marketing of Detroit so that it is more of a welcoming environment than it is previously known. So those are three things that I know the elected officials can help me right now, and so when I don't get that from them, you know, then I, you know. Do you have my vote? Do you have my support? I question that. There are some candidates who've done that. I question that there are some candidates who've done that. I tell you there's a person that used to be a city council person. That person would show up at our office for any given reason.
Speaker 3:And what that person done. Who is not an LGBT person, right? Who is a friend of the LGBT movement? When he shows up, he affirms the people on campus.
Speaker 5:Do you mind sharing who that is? Roy McAllister. Okay, thank you. Roy McAllister shows Matter of fact. He would yell at me and say to me I heard you're doing something. You didn't call me.
Speaker 5:I had to apologize to a politician that I had not called them to welcome them to an activity and I was embarrassed. Usually it's the other way around we and I was embarrassed. Usually it's the other way around. We're always chasing for affirmation of elected officials. I don't like chasing anyone, but I have somebody who is. I had someone who defied typically what it is for an elected official to do more than just advocate for our needs but to affirm and give not only a witness to what we're doing but access. So the young person, or the family member of the young person. When they met former council member Roman Callister, he was in the room. He may not have all the answers I wouldn't expect him to have all the answers but what he did was he heard, he listened and he gave some kind of response or action to a question, and so it is that kind of leader that I find attractive and I know in the next cycle is going to continue that method of engagement.
Speaker 4:District two voters are going to see Roy on the ballot again. I know, are you one of them? Oh, I am one of them, and so you're going to vote for Roy against the incumbent, angela McAloy.
Speaker 5:I will not say who I'm going to vote for, because I give space to any and everyone. I've invited a number of people to have opportunity to speak. My vote isn't as important as my giving you access to create a platform. I've done that for Miss Sherry I can't pronounce her name Gait Ignago. I gave space for her to speak, I gave space for a number of people to speak and I'm glad for you to do so because, as a representative, you are the voice of the people and it's very important that I use whatever opportunities I have so that the people can listen. And again, as an LGBT organization, we're not on an island and we're not in a silo, so it is important for our fellow persons to know that we care about shared interests.
Speaker 3:Right, and I think that one of the things what you're saying is so wonderful and you've made this message very clear you are a black man. Your organization represents black Detroiters. You are not a black man with an asterisk, you are simply a black man.
Speaker 5:My office is right next door to a hair salon and a gas station and liquor store. So if that's not Detroit, I don't know what Exactly. A gas station and liquor store.
Speaker 3:So if that's not Detroit, I don't know what is Exactly, and so you know, so often what we do is we define sort of what a black politics is based on cis-hetero men and not women, you know, and not people who are from different communities. And we're all part of the same community, all of us. We're in the same families, we're in the same neighborhoods, we're on the same block, we're at the same families, we're in the same neighborhoods.
Speaker 6:We're on the same block, we're at the block parties. We are in the same churches of block parties.
Speaker 5:Oh, my God.
Speaker 3:And so if we can stop seeing some people as being lesser or different and be more inclusive in our politics, we're going to have more justice. And I love what you're saying, because what you're also saying is just show up, just talk to me. No-transcript, you have to prove it happened and disparate treatment and everything like that, and we don't necessarily do a very good job of holding people accountable for that.
Speaker 4:The Michigan Civil Rights Commission doesn't necessarily do that great of a job of responding to a lot of those complaints.
Speaker 5:I'm sorry to interrupt. I work with people who often are discriminated, and so our job is to help them navigate their concern with said departments so they can be heard. Thank you for the kind words you say. I am concerned about a recession of behavior. I really am. Detroit is a leader of freedom. We are the first. I'll say it again, we're the first American city that protected gay and lesbian people. Very proud of that. I say that probably when I talk to my friends from these other parts of the nation.
Speaker 3:Don't tell my son that too. That's my next phone call.
Speaker 5:And again, mary Manhattan, who was a white, non-lgbt person, led the charge. She was our advocate, and so I lift her name up because she, as you said and many other women have done, have created spaces of safety and freedom, and so what I don't want is to be surprised by someone who feels otherwise. I don't want to be surprised, and they're not all, possibly religious leaders. There are people who have strong thoughts about who we are. Some of them have done their best to me directly, to say that they were not otherwise, and so I recognize. You know, just because you have a collar doesn't necessarily mean that you're a hated person.
Speaker 3:No, but you know. People say you know, I don't have a racist bone in my body. You know, racism doesn't grow on bones, right? Neither does homophobia, and the reality is that-.
Speaker 3:Or sexism or sexism or any of those isms that cause oppression. I think it's important for us to lift it up and then hold people accountable, and you know, one thing is, I'm not afraid to do that. You get to a certain age, and I don't know if you're with me yet. I don't know if you hit that age. You're really close, right, we're only two years apart, even though I'm on the boomer side of the X.
Speaker 5:Remember I got boomer tendencies.
Speaker 3:I've got X tendencies. Okay, how about that? But listen, what I'm saying is that you know you get to a certain age when you understand. It's your responsibility to say things. Younger people can't. It's our responsibility because we're not afraid in the same way that we were when we were young. And that's the reason I raised my voice and I speak so emphatically, because I used to be afraid. I appreciate that, because I was just like you, so we do.
Speaker 4:I was just like you.
Speaker 5:I was afraid, just like you, and it's funny how, the way I speak, you know, they call me the old man at the office. Sometimes I'm offended by that they don't call you Unc yet.
Speaker 5:Oh, I'm grandpa, I'm elder, I just reached eldership. I have three grand girls and I'm grandpa baba, whatever names they're going to call me. They're the most beautiful girls in my life. My daughters love me. I'm daddy to them, but I have reached that age and I'm thankful for the respect they've given me. To your point being afraid, being young, being afraid of the impact, you're absolutely right. This is a walk that I am loving to be able to share without concern about the repercussions to me.
Speaker 3:I'm so so, and you know the good thing is, you are not walking alone, right? Oh, I got you and so, yeah, so it's a beautiful thing I got my big sister here.
Speaker 3:Listen, when I was young I'm not that old, mitchell, I know, call me old, okay, two years, okay Only mattered in elementary school. I think that we really have to stand for something. I really appreciate you coming as our guest. I really appreciate having a younger co-host in Sam, because we've got to reach across generations, across genders, across identities, because there's only one type of justice. Justice does not come, it's not racial, it's not any of that. It is not gender-based. Justice is justice, and either we love people or we don't.
Speaker 5:If I may, I want to thank Sam for me here, because I recognize that for a lot of gay men particularly, it's easy to see gay men in a peer section. So I'm 30. I'm 20. My friend is 20. My friend is 30. As an older man, who may be your dad's age, it is normal for gay men to go back in the closet age. It is normal for gay men to go back in the closet and it's also normal for particularly lesbians, as they age up, to also disappear. And so the aim is to talk to our children, to say to them and I say to you, we don't want to disappear, we want to still be in the room, socially right, and we will definitely be in the room safely, because I want my sons and daughters to have what I didn't have and I'm going to use my power to make sure that the environment is safer so that your life is more abundant and you wouldn't have to work hard, because there is an inheritance. You just have to come and get it.
Speaker 3:We have so much of a legacy to leave in so many ways that we have to hold things. I love having these conversations, so hold things. I love having these conversations, so we're going to have to have you back. When is Hotter Than July? When is everything that's going on this summer? Before we close?
Speaker 5:So the 30th anniversary of Hotter Than July activates July 22nd through the 27th. From Tuesday through Sunday. There are a number of dynamic activities that impacts a variety of people, particularly those who live in Detroit. We have our friends coming from all across the country. This is when your son should arrive, because there's a lot of partying for people who are well younger than me, but for people of a certain age like myself, there are receptions and there's a church service. There's a number of things that really help with the full spectrum of what it is to be LGBT Detroit. So at HotterThanJulyorg, I ask you to join the celebration there, july 22nd to 27th.
Speaker 3:How hot is it? It's hotter than July. Well, you know what? That's awesome. I think he'll be in town, because my second grandson is expected on the 21st.
Speaker 5:Oh my God, so I?
Speaker 3:think he'll be in town to come to that celebration, so you plan on seeing us. I'm going to like I said just Anyway, listen. Thank you so much for listening to the podcast.
Speaker 5:Thank you for having me, both of you. Thank you, this has been enjoyable. I was a little nervous actually.
Speaker 4:No, at first, between our bickering about politics. Yeah, we missed our conversation. That would have been a good recording.
Speaker 2:It really would have been. That's next time.
Speaker 1:That's next time.
Speaker 3:You know, I think it's always great to have that type of you know, sharp exchange, because you really got to figure out what's right or not, and I'm interested in more than just LGBT issues. I just want to say that no absolutely, because, again, you are a black man.
Speaker 5:And a Detroiter. You are a Detroiter. You are a resident Gen Xer, resident Gen Xer.
Speaker 3:I love comic books, yes, and none of us should be put into a box. I brought you here today for this specific issue.
Speaker 1:I understand, I'm being a little silly.
Speaker 3:No, no, no. I think you're raising a good point, so we'll bring you back on some other things, because you are an influencer. And where did I meet you? I met you when we were doing some work together. We were both with Be, me, yep, be.
Speaker 5:Me with Be Me, yep, be Me, and it was Dr Truman Hudson that got us together. He told me a lot about you and then, of course, you made an impression there and impact, and you're doing so now, just very proud of what you do and as you lead to make Detroit safer. I recognize that and I thank you for it.
Speaker 3:All right. Well, it's mutual right. So thank you so much for listening to the Black Detroit Democracy podcast. Be sure to like, rate and subscribe to our podcast on all platforms and, of course, support Black independent reporting on Detroit. One Million because good journalism no-transcript.
