Authentically Detroit
Authentically Detroit is the leading podcast in the city for candid conversations, exchanging progressive ideas, and centering resident perspectives on current events.
Hosted by Donna Givens Davidson and Orlando P. Bailey.
Produced by Sarah Johnson and Engineered by Griffin Hutchings.
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Authentically Detroit
Black Detroit Democracy Podcast: Balancing Power in the Detroit Mayoral Race
The Authentically Detroit Podcast Network in collaboration with Detroit One Million presents: The Black Detroit Democracy Podcast, hosted by Donna Givens Davidson and Sam Robinson!
Together, Donna and Sam illuminate the complexities of Detroit’s unique political landscape and give residents a resource for navigating civic engagement and election season.
On this episode they discuss the significant issues around gender bias in candidate coverage and how a troubling generational gap in voter participation skews elections toward older residents' interests.
For more episodes of the Black Detroit Democracy Podcast, click here.
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Speaker 3:Podcast Network are for studio space and production staff. To help get your idea off of the ground, just visit authenticallydetcom and send a request through the contact page. Wake up Detroit. Welcome to the Black Detroit Democracy Podcast. Every week, we open this podcast with a reading of the preamble to the Detroit City Charter, read by the one and only Bryce Detroit. The City Charter is our constitution, which defines our rights and the way government should work. I'm Dinah Gibbons-Davidson, president and CEO of the Eastside Community Network.
Speaker 4:And I'm Sam Robinson, founder of Detroit. One Million.
Speaker 3:Thank you for listening in and supporting our expanded effort to build another platform of authentic voices for real people in the city of Detroit. We want you to like, rate and subscribe to our podcast on all platforms. The purpose of this podcast is to encourage Detroit citizens to stay vigilant in the fight for justice and equality. With a special call to action for black Detroit, we seek to build awareness of our history as a gateway to freedom, a beacon for justice and a laboratory of liberation. Welcome back to the Black Detroit Democracy Project. How are you today, Sam?
Speaker 4:I'm good, donna. I have been listening to the Clips album for the past 72 hours or whatever, since they came out with it on Friday, and I think about me as being 27 years old when I was like 11. I listened to Grind In and Lord Will and the album that came out in, I think, 2000. I was a fan of when I was first getting into hip hop. I really liked Pharrell, and so now that Malice is 56 or 52, I think Pusha T is 48 years old Getting the generational divide gap, bridging that gap, is something that I just don't see very often. It needs to happen more often. I think we do it pretty well on the show here talking and doing these podcasts. But yeah, I just wanted to share that because I get to kick out of the fact that I'm really enjoying this music made by people that are double my age.
Speaker 3:I'm really enjoying it too, and that's really funny. Listen. When Clips came out I didn't even know who Clips was in that time of my life. But I've always been interested in trying to understand other people's music, especially in our community. It's how you understand young people, it's how you understand the world. But listen, I think it sounds good. I'm not necessarily sure I like everything I see in it, to be honest with you, but I enjoy it. I mean it's a little bit more dope heavy and cocaine heavy than I would have liked.
Speaker 3:I think Michael Harriot said something like this Eclipse album is for dope boys who pay their tithes or something like that. Something ridiculous.
Speaker 4:Yeah, malice left that group between him and his brother because of his faith and religious convictions and was no Malice for 12 years. He released two albums. Nobody was really paying attention to him because Pusha T was being paraded around with Kanye across the world and, of course, now, if you have seen any of these clips, go on your timeline. He has stepped away from that orbit, which is probably good for his mental health.
Speaker 3:Well, I'm sure, because Kanye has very little mental health.
Speaker 4:Yeah, he's not got a lot left. It's interesting these interviews and the quote-unquote rollout of this project. It sort of is a throwback to when I was a teenager and rap albums would come out with the support of the double XL and source magazines and the. You know, the social media era has really suppressed the idea of artists marketing their music themselves via interviews and talking about the actual music. Now, of course, it is more about the viral post or whatever drama-t incident that is surrounding your music. It's not about the music anymore of some of these artists. So I appreciate that I'm here for the rap drama, right?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm here for the fact that the label dropped them and Jay-Z had to pick them up.
Speaker 4:And.
Speaker 3:I'm here for the rejection of Kanye West, which, by the way, I used to love Kanye West. It took me a long time, but when I hear clips a lot of them I'm not sure if it's title style one of them are malice. One of them kind of reminds me of I'll push it to you are malice, but one of them kind of reminds me of Kanye in their vocalization.
Speaker 4:I, but one of them kind of reminds me of Kanye in their vocalization I don't know if that's. There was one song that Pharrell's hook sounded just like Kanye singing his little faint voice that he's been doing After the 2016's era. He kind of sings well pretty. Now he's got an earnest or endearing voice, Kanye does. He's not a good singer, but it kind of sounds good.
Speaker 3:Listen. I mean, his college dropout was one of my favorite albums ever, and so it's a sad thing to see him devolve.
Speaker 4:It's been 21 years since then.
Speaker 3:It has been and he has become a very bad person and let's not put it on his mother anymore, okay, or on the Kardashians. This is all, kanye. He had some mental health issues all along, but this is all, kanye.
Speaker 4:He had some mental health issues all along, but anyway, anyway, I hope he can get through those.
Speaker 3:I hope everybody can get through their mental health challenges, but what he is doing right now with his wife. The way that he has talked about his daughter, he disgusts me. I'm going to be honest with you, yeah me too. I hate to see women being abused, and you cannot convince me that's not abuse, even if she seems to be a willing participant. But anyway, we're here to talk about something more local, and that's politics. And this has been a crazy political moment, hasn't it?
Speaker 4:Oh it has. It really has been. I want to start off by talking about can we talk about the 13th District for a second? And just those fundraising numbers that came out that show Shree has $7.8 million on hand. That is a ton to have in a campaign account. Donovan and Adam are right near the $300,000 mark. I think Donovan was like $272,000 in the latest filing period and then Adam was just under $300,000. So Adam Ollier is actually outpacing Donovan McKinney, which I don't think we would have thought. A month ago or when they launched their campaign with the support of Bernie Sanders and Justice Dems, I would have thought that.
Speaker 3:I'm not surprised by the fact that he had an earlier start and he has more establishment. Folks, the reality is, you cannot buy an election. Money can give you some advantages, but I don't think you can purchase an election. I think that voters are actually going to go to the polls based on what they believe in, and that brings us to a whole nother topic, though, because you saw, there's an article in Bridge Detroit that talked about the outsized impact of people my age right, 60 and over we're in charge, because it's like for every one voter under the age of 30, you have 10 voters over the age of 60.
Speaker 3:And I don't imagine that's the way our demographics shake out, but in the city of Detroit, we're controlling the narrative. What that means, though, is if younger voters ever decide to show up and show out, you'd see some changes in elections. I wonder if Donovan McKinney and Denzel McCampbell and some of these young guns who have different ideas, and even some of our local mayoral candidates, will cause a change this election cycle. What do you think?
Speaker 4:Well, I don't think it's going to happen. In the mayoral election. I do think Donovan McKinney in D7 is going to have a substantial amount of support. You know he's facing Regina Ross who's shown up on folks' ballots already.
Speaker 3:You mean Denzel McCampbell?
Speaker 4:Denzel McCampbell. Yes, who did I say Donovan?
Speaker 4:McKinney oh excuse me, yeah, denzel, in D7. He's running for Detroit City Council. He has worked for Detroit Action as well as Rashida Tlaib as her communications director. He is a DSA member. Dsa just had their general meeting, their first general meeting since Zoran Mendami's election in New York, which has sparked the interest of progressives across the country and certainly in Detroit, where we have already a DSA member on city council. That's Gabriela Santiago Romero. I saw Gabby at the candidate forum last night at the Brooklyn. Never been in that building right there at 2000 Brooklyn in Corktown. Gabby left a little bit early, as did Mary Sheffield, um, and as did another person who I'm forgetting, um, I believe it was Joel Hashim that left early, um, as well as Mary last night, but, um, she posted on Twitter. I was disappointed not to hear anyone mention the fact that my constituents, the residents that make up this area, that they're being abducted every day.
Speaker 4:This was a business. This was a business-focused event with Southwest Business Association, with Grace Karros she's the owner of American Coney. Charlie LaDuff was there. Sergio Martinez he's with Michigan United. He described last night's event as the conservative Hispanic candidate for him. Who, sergio? He's a local activist, immigrants rights longtime activist. He described the groups putting together last night's event. As the conservative, it certainly had a tinge of that. It's really interesting, I think, when you think about who is Detroit's Zoran. I posted this on Twitter today. I said who's Detroit's Memdani? You know you guys aren't going to like my answer. I said there's only one candidate that's shared a stage with Sean Fain. I don't think Kinloch is Memdani at all, but if you're going to say who's the closest, you know it's not Mary, it's not mary it's not, joel, it's not and it's not.
Speaker 4:It's not barlow, it's not kinlock, but I would say, if you are asking who is the closest, I mean just by proxy of the uaw endorsed.
Speaker 3:I think if mandani and the uaw endorsed, um, I mean there's, I mean keith ellison endorsed, uh, mandami and kin and and sheffield so I mean. The reality is, you can't base it on an endorsement.
Speaker 4:I will base it on this, which is the grassroots he's going to adopt and co-opt grassroots messaging. He already has started with talking about the rig system that we're all in and talking about how organizations aren't putting up their I mean Trump used the same thing about rig system.
Speaker 3:That's populist rhetoric. I think Mandami actually had policy, specific policy proposals addressing these things.
Speaker 4:I would describe Mandami as a populist.
Speaker 3:He's a populist with specific goals. I think that certainly anybody who's running a campaign on that level. What I hear some people doing is taking populist rhetoric and using it for demagogic purposes. Okay, if you are using populist rhetoric and and basing it on certain things that are not helpful, I have questions about that. My issue with Ken Locke and I think this is the difference between Mandami's. I cannot imagine Mandami skipping every community organization.
Speaker 4:One of the few, one of the several differences between Ken Locke and Mandami.
Speaker 3:It's the most substantive difference, yes, is if the people don't have access to a candidate unless they go to that candidate's sponsored events, then that tells me that you always have to be on his turf Right, and that's the difference between a real grassroots organizer and politician. Somebody who is in the community Like we do have some people who are more like that, who are in Congress like Rashida Tlaib we do have Denzel McCamp will probably be like that. I believe that Abdul El-Sayed, should he run for in his run for Senate, will be more like that. I think you have people who are running on similar ideals.
Speaker 4:It's interesting. Abdul put up an Instagram story last week saying looking for the next Zoran Abdul is your guy in 2026. When I asked Abdul's campaign if they wanted to be included in a story about democratic socialists, they politely declined. One day later, fox News was writing a story attacking Abdul for putting that Instagram story up. I mean, he came on our show on Authentically.
Speaker 3:Detroit writing a story attacking Abdul for putting that Instagram story up. I mean, he came on our show on Authentically Detroit and he definitely identifies as a democratic socialist. I think maybe he doesn't want to be included in stories about it, but I think that his ideals if you look at where he's gotten his money, where he was when he ran for Congress, it's all there. So I'm not as into labels. I understand journalism is a really interesting construct and people aren't always going to do what we want them to do, but I think that's the closest that we have is not going to be in the mayoral race because Detroit is a conservative city and we're not ready for that yet, but I think that— We've got a lot more Eric Adams and Cuomo's than we do.
Speaker 4:We do, we do.
Speaker 3:We do, denzel McCampbell's, yeah, so we're going to take a break and we'll come back after we take our break. We're going to talk a little bit more about the 13th Congressional District race, just to close that out, before we talk about some of the other exciting stories. I want to talk about the generational issues. I want to talk about some interesting things we learned about Fred Durhall. I want to talk about some interesting things we learned about Fred Durhall and also let's talk and I know you brought this up this morning about the attack on women candidates. You know, I feel very passionately about that. A lot of people do too.
Speaker 2:Detroit One Million is a journalism project started by Sam Robinson that centers a generation of Michiganders growing up in a state without a city with one million people. Support the only independent reporter covering the 2025 Detroit mayoral race through the lens of young people. Good journalism costs. Visit DetroitOneMillioncom to support Black independent reporting. Interested in renting space for corporate events, meetings, conferences, social events or resource fairs? The MassDetroit Small Business Hub is a 6,000 square feet space available for members, residents and businesses and organizations. To learn more about rental options at MassDetroit, contact Nicole Perry at nperry at ecn-detroitorg or 313-331-3331. 3-4-8-5. We're back.
Speaker 3:And we're going to talk about the 13th Congressional District, where we are with that. So you know the race is next year. We have a little, we have a minute.
Speaker 4:no-transcript by the fact of Duggan is going to be replaced. We're getting a new mayor, we're getting a black mayor. That's definitely going to motivate and encourage some folks my age, but when I ask residents who are my age and masse right, I mean, it's a seven out of 10. I'm not voting and I have no idea who the candidates are. It's a lot more, it's a lot less common that I hear from someone who says I like Mary or I like Kinloch or I like Suntil. Those are the three names that I do hear the most. Now, I will put that on the record.
Speaker 3:In what proportions?
Speaker 4:That's something that we're going to have to find out on August 5th.
Speaker 3:The reason I'm asking is because some people believe that Sontiel is gaining ground on Kinloch and that there will very possibly be two women running against each other, and I'm wondering if you're hearing any evidence from that when you're out in the field.
Speaker 4:I'm not, you know. I do see Suntil getting major endorsements, One being Detroit News. Nolan Finley endorsed Suntil, which is kind of surprising. Nolan endorsed Karen Witsat, saying that you know that she stood up for what was right during the lame duck period. And they also incorrectly referenced James Tate over in District 1 as Joe Tate. I know Nolan and Gary. I did send that to Gary and I asked Gary does anyone on the Detroit News editorial board live in the city of Detroit? He didn't respond to me. Gary Miles is the managing editor of the Detroit News, who I have a lot of respect for. He's also a fellow Midlander, he is from Midland. But no, I don't believe anybody that is doing those endorsements has an actual stake in the election. Michigan Chronicle did you see their endorsement? I?
Speaker 3:have nothing to do with it. I see that they endorsed both, mary and Santino yes said.
Speaker 4:let's you know, give us the race that we deserve.
Speaker 3:that Detroiters deserve is the language you know I'm going to say this Of all the candidates I've listened to, there's two who seem to have done the work, and continue to do the work, of delving into the details of governance in the city and what Detroit will look like. You get a really clear picture. You get somewhat of a clear picture with Durr Hall, but some of that I feel is misleading. For example, when he says well, we want to expand the Downtown Development Authority into neighborhoods all neighborhoods can have and we'll create these corridor improvement authorities. It sounds like justice, it sounds like he's trying to equalize, but the reality is that that corporate-centered mindset will not really help residents inside of those neighborhoods and that doesn't bring new money into those neighborhoods in the way that he would suggest.
Speaker 3:I'm not sure that anybody is doing as much as I would like, but I do believe that Santil and Mary have the most detailed agendas of all of the candidates that I've heard so far. I like what some of the other candidates are saying. I think Hashim has a lot to say. That's good. I think that Perkins has a lot of things to say that are worthwhile and Durhall has said some good things, but I think the two most prepared people are Mary and Sontiel. Now, that doesn't mean they should be mayor, but it means that in my opinion, they have been most prepared at debates.
Speaker 4:Coalition for Detroit's Growth is a PAC created in February by an attorney who formed a pro-Duggan PAC in years past. They put up $350,000 promoting Dr Hall in a issue ad, not to be confused with an advertisement asking voters to elect them for mayor. We've seen issue ads from Kinloch and from Durr Hall. Malachi Barrett reported yesterday. A representative from the group tells me that they can't say who's involved. I also sent the group a message on Facebook. They didn't respond to me. So good work, malachi, on getting them to respond.
Speaker 4:But yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the same financial backers of Mike Duggan's previous campaigns, whether it be in 21, 17, or 13, are saying you know, we need Fred again. I think a lot of those folks were looking to James Craig and he hasn't been able to deliver. I know again. I'll go on the record and say you know Craig has. He did not prepare well enough. He didn't prepare well enough in the debates. He didn't prepare well enough in the debates. He didn't prepare well enough in the forums. I think he has a lot of good things to say. He's a very personable, maybe not one-on-one, but sitting there on a stage and he'll kind of crack jokes and he'll kind of make himself the butt of jokes. He'll be pretty forward in talking about what he describes as the elephant in the room, the fact that he is a Republican, albeit a moderate Republican, which I think he is being honest.
Speaker 3:He's a moderate Republican and he also says that he supports Trump and MAGA, and I don't think that those two things can go together. I can call myself.
Speaker 4:I just watched a bunch of Trump hatinghating Republicans vote for him last year.
Speaker 3:I can say that I do not believe a lot of moderate Republicans are Republicans anymore because the Republican Party is a very radical party, and so this idea of I'm a moderate Republican and I believe in getting rid of Medicaid mass deportations and everything that's happening with eliminating the ability to talk about black history I mean. The thing about people is, I don't judge people by just what they say about themselves. I judge them by their actions. As police chief, james Craig did not protect election workers in 2020. Workers in 2020.
Speaker 3:As police chief, james Craig hounded and harassed people who were and contributed to brutalization and assaults against people who were marching for Black Lives Matter. Everything I say about myself as police chief, he comes out in favor of stop and frisk. Now we may say that's moderate Republican. Whatever we just believe that harassing people who are actually counting votes is OK. As candidate, he's been unwilling to say that Biden won the election. So when I say I'm a moderate Republican, what that says to me is I'm just saying things, because I know, if I say I'm a macro Republican, in Detroit, I'm definitely not going to win.
Speaker 3:The problem with Craig is not what he says or his preparation, is that people know who he is, and people have observed his actions, and so for those of us who have watched from the sidelines for years, as this man has, even before he said he was Republican, done things that have been harmful to our community and the kinds of things he even said when we were interviewing him in the debate not our debate, but I think when we were interviewing him he was talking about, you know, the Chrysler workers and how people in Detroit are not smart enough to work for Chrysler, we have an educational crisis and that somehow we were able to hire Detroiters but most of them could not pass the intelligence test. There's no basis for that statement that he's making. He misstates what happened with the community benefits agreement to say that these were guaranteed jobs, which they were not.
Speaker 4:He misstates the fact that Sister Pie is not permanently closed.
Speaker 3:So he perpetuates myths and misunderstandings about our community, and let's come out in defense of arresting some of the people who've been arrested in our community for immigration violations. So I don't know what a moderate Republican is. All I know is if you brag about being able to pick up the phone and call Donald Trump and he'll answer you and give you what you want, then you are not, in my view, moderate in any sense of the word, whatever your political label is.
Speaker 4:I just see Republicans for what they are now and the loudest voices are extreme. The loudest voices say extreme things about race science, believe that black people are genetically inferior, and I don't think James Craig believes that.
Speaker 3:Well, it doesn't matter, because he won't come out against it. Sure, he won't come out against it. If, in my political alliance with you, I'm unwilling to say this is wrong, then it really doesn't matter what I believe. I believe that a lot of people who support that don't believe it. I don't suppose that I don't know what Clarence Thomas does. I don't know whether John James does. I don't know what these guys do, but what I do know is, when it comes time to vote, when it comes time to stand up for our community and say this is wrong, they won't. In fact, what James Craig said, sitting in this chair right over here, is that DEI is not based on merit. The people who benefit from DEI don't have merit, unlike affirmative action which got him ahead.
Speaker 4:Which makes no sense.
Speaker 3:It's nonsensical, and that's what I'm saying. It's nonsensical. Does he believe in that kind of race science? No. Does he advocate against it? No.
Speaker 3:And if you want to be a public figure representing the city of Detroit and you're unwilling to stand against that, then I don't really care what you call yourself. You can't be our mayor, and I think a lot of people agree with that, especially in polarized times like this. Now, is he personable? Yes, and if you think he's a nice person, I suggest you go to Sinbad's, hang out at the bar he's usually there Instead of preparing for all of this stuff. I don't know if he's been there because I haven't been there lately, but I used to see them at the bar all of the time. I just don't think that that means that you can be a good mayor. Could you be somebody fun in a situation? Sure, that's what you count on. I mean, you know George Bush, that's what he was. He was personable, he was a fun guy. Republicans sometimes like those people who are able to personalize their hatred and make it nice. But anyway, don't want to spend too much time on Craig. Let's talk about ML Elric. Can we talk about ML Elric?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I love ML. Yeah, he bought my Detroit One Million shirt, so thank you for that, ML. But Jodante Smith? He is a community member. He published on his Facebook earlier this week a story scrutinizing Suntill Jenkins and asked openly something that I've heard from folks, not just those criticizing ML, but people who are reading headlines within Detroit's media, ecosystem and landscape wonder why there seems to be a scrutiny on the women candidates that there aren't on the male candidates.
Speaker 3:I mean, as a woman, I'm not surprised by that. I was going back and looking at some of what he's done in the past and I've seen some bias there. The reality is, if a black person has to work twice as hard, imagine the journey for a black woman. Remember that the kinds of criticisms that you heard against Kamala Harris were so much more outsized than criticisms you heard against Barack Obama, even though maybe they had similar political points of view, and he came out on record and said he thought she was hot, I mean, but she. Do you remember that?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I remember Kamala being a terrible candidate also.
Speaker 3:But she was a terrible candidate also because she did.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I agree with you.
Speaker 3:I'm not going to disagree with you. She was at the NAACP Freedom Fund dinner, and we went to see her and it was not great. Okay, I'm not saying she was a great candidate. What I'm saying is, the kind of criticisms, though, were not about her candidacy, the kind of criticisms about her intelligence sleeping her way to the top.
Speaker 4:Which was very popular on Fox News. This was like mainstream as it gets New York Post she's stupid.
Speaker 3:She's a slut.
Speaker 4:Unqualified.
Speaker 3:She's unqualified, which is crazy, somebody said that she was the least intelligent candidate to ever seek office. Those are code words.
Speaker 4:I've heard that about one of the female candidates running. That's what people continue to say about Mary Sheffield that she's not intelligent, and so the freedom that people have.
Speaker 3:To just attack the intelligence of black women still in 2025 is offensive. Disagree with them on their policies and their platforms, but attacking their intellect is something that I'm so used to, you know, having gone to a majority white high school and having to defend my intelligence, having been accused of faking or cheating on a standardized test, always having to defend when I got to college, having to defend my right to be there At some point. It's tiring. So that's one issue, but the other issue is the attack on character.
Speaker 3:Durr Hall does not get the same scrutiny that Mary Sheffield does, even when she says things about being on city council. People are not nearly as critical of his tenure on city council, even though it's been shorter and less impactful than Mary Sheffield's has, but he doesn't get that scrutiny. If Mary Sheffield says we produced a balanced budget, people will say, hey, wait a minute, the budget has to be balanced. But if he says it, people just let that go. So there's a two-tiered system here, and with Santil, santil did leave office. There was an ethics complaint, but the reality is that she's not the only person who's had complaints against her, and so I think it's only fair to say why this scrutiny? And why isn't Emil Elric talking about residency, for example, of Kinloch? Now people have jumped in and said you can't talk about Kinloch not living in Detroit, or Perkins have jumped in and said you can't talk about Kinloch not living in Detroit or Perkins moving in Detroit for this, because we didn't talk about Mike Duggan's residency.
Speaker 4:And Dave Bing as well.
Speaker 3:Which is ridiculous, because people did talk about it. In fact, people call him Livonia Mike to this day, talking about it. In fact, there was a lawsuit that had him removed from the ballot, so it's not as though he didn't have to address that. There are people who say he still lives in Livonia, and so those types of rumors and that criticism has always been there. Defending a current candidate by saying another candidate didn't have to face this kind of scrutiny is unfair. I think we do want our mayoral candidates not only live in Detroit but be committed to the city of Detroit, even if the law says that you can only have to be here for one year, and so I think the question that was raised is will you remain here if you are not elected? Right, and people some people online said that was unfair, and it's just interesting to me how that is considered unfair, but the attacks on Mary and Santil are not.
Speaker 4:I will tell you the ML v Santil has a decades-long history of Christine Beatty being at the center of his criticism of her not this cycle, but ML's column back in, I believe, 2023. It was headlined Christine Beatty is back, refusing to answer questions or pay restitution to Detroit. Suntil, a month later, wrote a letter to the editor that was published in the Detroit Free Press saying that ML's column missed the mark. Ml and Christine had a brief interaction at Suntil's campaign launch event, in which I do not believe Christine said anything to ML, in fact saying I have nothing to say to you, but obviously ML's history with the Kilpatrick administration is still affecting his sort of bias or vision or, you know, plane of view.
Speaker 3:I mean, I think that the reality is that Christine Beatty is a public figure. Who was involved in something is a public figure who was involved in something, and so it makes sense to acknowledge that, but not to hound her. I've seen him hounding Carlita Kilpatrick, who was married to somebody, is no longer even married to Kwame when she finds a new job. So I think that there is this tendency to show little regard for women in a lot of situations and I wish we had a more fair and balanced contest.
Speaker 4:It's interesting that we're talking about Kwame Kilpatrick a few days after Zeke Williams of New Era Detroit marched alongside Kwame during a neighborhood community outreach event where they're knocking on doors and providing resources Zeke of New Era, detroit. They're one of the seven. Cvi groups. And he became extremely defensive over negative comments. People in his Instagram comments saying why the hell are you parading Kwame Kilpatrick around? He owes the city money. He is a thief and a crook. And of course, we hear the defense of Kwame Kilpatrick from not just Zeke.
Speaker 3:But you know that's we hear it all the time. You know if, if Kwame were a black woman, you couldn't even say his name. Let's just be really honest. Remember when Chrisette Michelle sang at Trump's inauguration and lost her career, and Snoop sang no, I guess Snoop performed rather at a Tech Bros event this time Nelly. Nelly did Right Snoop, and rather at a Tech Bros event this time.
Speaker 3:Nelly Nelly did Right Snoop and Nelly performed. Kanye has been in Trump's back pocket. Ice Cube has definitely been in support of Trump and some of his friends. Killer Mike I mean, you could just name person after person and Kwame Kilpatrick, of course, is a Trump buddy.
Speaker 4:Yes.
Speaker 3:And a big proponent of Donald Trump, and there's absolutely nothing disqualifying these men can do, but let a woman just sing one time and she can be destroyed. So it's very interesting. I wonder what it would take to sink Kwame Kilpatrick's public image in a city. He has come out and attacked black families public image in this city. He has come out and attacked black families and said he's running on family values. What family values, sir? He has attacked Well, cheating, lying, and not just cheating with one person. I mean, he even cheated on the person he was cheating with.
Speaker 4:It's just so interesting and all the folks that were connected to his administration today are in not the best economic circumstances. A lot of them are working for charter school districts. I know I would know.
Speaker 3:How would you know?
Speaker 4:Oh, I just would, and it's very sad. A lot of them are very angry and don't know what to do with their life, and it's just very sad. Well, you know, trump is having that effect.
Speaker 3:He had the kind of effect where he was not only committing criminal acts but a lot of people went down under his leadership. Let's just be really honest, and I think that's what's unfortunate is when you have a leader who takes people down with him because you create this environment that makes crime, that's permissive to crime. But keep in mind that Duggan was part of that same machine that Kwame Kilpatrick was part of and that was part of the Ed McNamara machine. There's a political machine. It became very permissive under Kwame, but it's still permissive under Duggan. I'm wondering who is going to be mayor, who is going to actually hold some of these folks accountable, Because we still see corruption in our city, even though it's not talked about as often now that Doug and his mayor.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and I guess that was my question to you is how you know what is your response to the people who say, well, white politicians have been doing this and getting away with it forever.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so it's okay if we do it, because I think that if we're trying to do is, if it's the race to the bottom, then that's what we do. If we're trying to protect our communities and we're trying to do is if it's the race to the bottom, then that's what we do, right? If we're trying to protect our communities and we're running out of true love for our communities, then we don't do what the people did who harmed us.
Speaker 4:That's a really good way to put that. Why is that not more? Why is that not easier to say?
Speaker 3:Because everybody wants something different. Some people want, some people don't like racism because they can't benefit from it.
Speaker 4:Some people want to get back.
Speaker 3:And some people want to get back, but some people also believe in systems of injustice. They just want to be the ones on top. Are you rejecting this construct of getting something for nothing, this construct of getting over on people, this American construct of exploitation? I was at a Mandela Fellows dinner last night with about, I think, 60 young people from the continent of Africa who are part of this national Mandela's movement, and you know they're coming from countries where they're trying to piece things together and in their countries, a lot of times, what they're trying to do is they're trying to create justice in places where leaders have been corrupt. And this idea that white people have not corrupted the continent of Africa for decades directly, but they do it through some of the leaders, and so I think that I'm not interested in hearing they did it too. I'm not interested in hearing well, it's okay that R Kelly raped somebody because Epstein did.
Speaker 4:I don't want to hear that. It's just so weird and like again, when you say race to the bottom, I'm going to steal that and just start saying that to people. Thank you, I appreciate that You're on a race to the bottom, brother, Exactly.
Speaker 3:And I think that we can be so much more. I think that our ancestors wanted more for us. I think that when they were fighting the fight for justice, they weren't fighting for the right to replace injustice with our injustice, and it doesn't make it right. I believe that. So that's my very strong feeling, and I think that there have been leaders who have been working to exploit that. I think we will have a decent mayor next time, hopefully Somebody who is connected to our community, who has skin in the game. But also, I think the people in our community have to continue to be vigilant and hold them accountable.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I would wholeheartedly agree with that and I'd put that on record. I would tweet that out. It's so interesting, donna, talking to people about this election as a reporter and a journalist with the perspective that I have, which is, you know, I'm not trying to influence anybody's decision on who to vote for. I'm just trying to inform. But you know, when I hear people defending people who are admitted cheaters and liars and abusers, I just don't understand.
Speaker 3:Well, I do. We have a double standard in our society. We have people, we have a mayor who's raped people. We have a mayor I mean not mayor- A president.
Speaker 3:A president Sorry, doug, that's an unfair charge A president who's raped people, a president who has committed all kinds of financial crimes, who has broken every rule and then changed rules at the federal government level. And it's happening at such dizzying speed it's hard to keep track of. Every time I read something, when I see right now, the Supreme Court in a headline, I know that the next word is going to be allows, permits, defends Trump. There's absolutely no checks and balances. When you see Trump want something, you see Congress is going to move it through. So first they wanted the Epstein files released. Now there were no Epstein files. And you know it's dizzying speed and you can't keep up. And so you have a little internal strife and then everybody's on a new wave. And so, as a black person, you recognize the unfairness of it and you can say wait a minute, laws don't apply to us in the same way they apply to them. That's not fair. But at the same time, I think we can also look at that behavior as abusive. But at the same time, I think we can also look at that behavior as abusive. And so, while we want, I don't want us to be able to abuse people in the same way they do. I want us to stop anybody from abusing people.
Speaker 3:I think that stopping the abuse of power and treating people with dignity is something that we should expect of elected officials, and I believe there have been wonderful elected officials who've done that, and to his credit and there's a lot of criticisms I have for Barack Obama, but to his credit he didn't do any of these things while in office. So the black man in office did none of these things. He didn't necessarily get rewarded for it other than, you know, hopefully by God, but he didn't do any of these things. We have had, you know, leadership with integrity. Coleman Young presided over the city for 20 years. He was investigated by everybody and there is no fault found in his leadership. We've had ethical leaders. In fact, in retrospect people say well, wait a minute. He was one of the best fiscal leaders in the history of Detroit and also one of the most ethical. So I think that we've had ethical leaders. We can keep demanding that of our leaders and believing that we can be better than the people we seek to replace.
Speaker 4:Yeah, why is that not more popular, donna? I don't know. A lot of people are obsessed with power and greed.
Speaker 3:That's the American way.
Speaker 4:It is and it's unfortunate that it is, but it is what it is. As we move forward, we are what? 18, 19 days away from the August 5 primary, guys, make sure you are registered to vote. You can do it the same day. If you don't feel like doing it before the election, you can just walk in to the clerk's office or a polling place and they will tell you how to register to vote that day. Thank you, voters of the state of Michigan, for making that happen back in 2022.
Speaker 3:Here's the thing I want young people to understand when you don't vote, you don't count to elected officials. When you decide that's not my problem, I don't care, then what you're doing is you're giving your power and your voice away to other people. A disproportionate share of the people who vote in Detroit are going to be higher income, older, whiter, higher education, and that means that the politics of our city reflect the interests of those groups. If you believe that you should be represented, even if none of the people running are people who you love, when you vote, they know that they have to fear you and they know they have to be accountable to you. But again, democracy is not a spectator sport. You can't do it once a year. You have to stay involved and don't give away your power at the ballot box Once you vote, then you have to stay on these candidates and hold them accountable over time. I want more young people to show up. I don't want my voice to be the voice of the people, my age to dominate the conversation.
Speaker 4:And they do 4% of voters. In the last mayoral primary, 4% were under 30, 31% over 60. That probably shouldn't be. You know, I actually don't know the demographic makeup. There is more elder folks, people over 60, than there are under 30. But I don't know when you talk about under 25.
Speaker 3:I mean, you look at life expectancy. We don't live that long.
Speaker 4:But I will say it's just not right, guys. Again, I said it the last episode and I'll say it this episode 80% of eligible. You know, elections should not be decided by 80% of all who's eligible not voting.
Speaker 3:You matter. Every single voter matters. Your needs matter. We need to do a better job of documenting your needs. We need to do a better job of fighting for them. Whoever is mayor, whoever is on city council, whoever is representing us at the state and federal legislature, and also I mean the president all of those people need to hear your voice somehow in some way, and the more we stand together in fighting for justice, the better the outcomes are going to be. But we also have to have a shared understanding of what justice is. Justice is not me winning and you losing. Justice is supposed to be collective, so we all win or we all lose.
Speaker 4:Is it Up to us in the media? Is it up to Janice in the clerk's office, or is it up to the candidates? Who bears the most responsibility? Mary is the only candidate under 40 years old in this mayor's race.
Speaker 3:And she's being attacked for being too young.
Speaker 4:So who is it? What do you think I mean? Who's at fault? Is it the voters? They're just head in the sand.
Speaker 3:I think when we've seen justice happen in this neighborhood, we're not trying to find out who's at fault, we're trying to figure out how to solve it right. Community organizing has been a thing. There's been times we've done community organizing when they have voter organizing in the South, registration campaigns, people fighting through violence Up North. You've had a lot of activities taking place where you've had people come together around issues and say we support that. You had the formation of the Black Slate, which still exists, but it's not the old Black Slate. It doesn't represent the community in the same way.
Speaker 3:When we organize, when we decide we're going to take it upon ourselves to be our brother's keeper and to educate people and uplift people. People don't vote a lot of times because they feel hopeless, because they don't understand the process, because they feel like it doesn't matter. And we have to help make people understand that it does matter. But the democracy is bigger than voting, which is the reason for the Black Detroit Democracy podcast and project so that we can begin organizing. In addition to what we're doing here, hopefully between now and Election Day we'll be doing some organizing with young people. I mean now and the November Election Day. We don't have enough time in August, but I think we're going to have to get more involved in trying to find forums and get young people to forums.
Speaker 4:I agree, I'm trying my best. If you guys want to learn, people keep asking me how do I learn about the Canis? I'm like, just follow me on Twitter, man. Follow Malachi Barrett and Bridge Detroit. I think you're doing a great job. I think you're doing a great job.
Speaker 3:You are a Gen Zer who's out here actually talking to people, learning people, elevating issues, and people now have a person who is their peer to look at. And so I just say keep doing that.
Speaker 4:Well, thank you as a journalist.
Speaker 3:I think you're helping to close that gap.
Speaker 4:Thank you, I'm trying so hard. This is like my life goal is to get more young people and even when I'm not young anymore, right, I'm going to keep the focus on young people because I kind of like what they got going on.
Speaker 3:They're creative Exactly. Well, I'm not young anymore, but I just believe that youth are our now and if we want to see change, we're going to have to empower young people to make that change. I want to thank you so much for listening to the Black Detroit Democracy podcast. I do have to go I have a standing meeting but be sure to like, rate and subscribe to our podcast on all platforms and, of course, support Black Independent Reporting on Detroit1millioncom, because good journalism costs, and also the Michigan Chronicle, now right.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Want to read the Michigan Chronicle if you want to hear what Sam has to say in print.
Speaker 4:Yeah, all right, please do. It's great to see my byline in an actual print paper again, so pick those up on newsstands near you. But thank you guys for joining in no-transcript.
