Authentically Detroit
Authentically Detroit is the leading podcast in the city for candid conversations, exchanging progressive ideas, and centering resident perspectives on current events.
Hosted by Donna Givens Davidson and Orlando P. Bailey.
Produced by Sarah Johnson and Engineered by Griffin Hutchings.
Check us out on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter @AuthenticallyDetroit!
Authentically Detroit
Black Detroit Democracy Podcast: Detroit’s Mayoral Showdown
The Authentically Detroit Podcast Network in collaboration with Detroit One Million presents: The Black Detroit Democracy Podcast, hosted by Donna Givens Davidson and Sam Robinson!
Together, Donna and Sam illuminate the complexities of Detroit’s unique political landscape and give residents a resource for navigating civic engagement and election season.
On this episode they discuss the final stretch of Detroit’s mayoral primary race and candidates' last appeals to voters across neighborhoods. Campaign finance records reveal who’s funding the race while candidates face scrutiny over past actions, outside money influences, and policy positions on issues affecting Detroit's future.
For more episodes of the Black Detroit Democracy Podcast, click here.
Detroit City Government is a service institution that recognizes its subordination to the people of Detroit. The city shall provide for the public peace, maintain and protect the integrity of the human, physical and natural resources of this city from encroachment and or dismantlement. The people have a right to expect city government to provide for its residents decent housing, job opportunities, reliable, convenient and comfortable transportation, recreational facilities and activities, cultural enrichment, including libraries, art and historical museums, clean air and waterways, safe drinking water and a sanitary, environmentally sound city.
Speaker 2:Keep it locked. The Black Detroit Democracy podcast starts right after these messages.
Speaker 3:Detroit mayoral race through the lens of young people. Good journalism costs. Visit DetroitOneMillioncom to the Black Detroit Democracy Podcast. Every week, we open this podcast with a reading of the preamble to the Detroit City Charter, read by the one and only Bryce Detroit. The City Charter is our constitution, which defines our rights and the way government should work. I'm Donna Gibbons-Davidson, president and CEO of the Eastside Community Network.
Speaker 4:And I'm Sam Robinson, founder of Detroit. One Million.
Speaker 3:Thank you for listening in and supporting our expanded effort to build another platform of authentic voices for real people in the city of Detroit. We want you to like, rate and subscribe to our podcast on all platforms. The purpose of this podcast is to encourage Detroit citizens to stay vigilant in the fight for justice and equality. With a special call to action for Black Detroit, we seek to build awareness of our history as a gateway to freedom, a beacon for justice and a laboratory of liberation. Welcome back to the Black Detroit Democracy Podcast. How are you today, sam?
Speaker 4:I'm doing amazing. We are less than a week away from Detroit's August 5th primary election and I am busy talking to voters getting out there in the streets, hitting doors and some of these candidate forums. I think we had the last candidate forum. I think Bridge Detroit held one last week. It was at Palmer Park. It was supposed to be held at the new Banshell. I don't know if you've seen that, been over there. The new Banshell looks great. That was supposed to be the first event to open it and they had to do it inside because it was 97 degrees that day. It's hot today too.
Speaker 3:It is so. Who showed up for that debate?
Speaker 4:Let's see, I think we had. I actually don't know, because I did not attend, but I do know that Mary was not there and Solomon Kinloch was not there either.
Speaker 3:All right, what about Craig?
Speaker 4:No, I do not believe James Craig was there. It was focused on parks, but I could be wrong. I actually do not know. I was not there, okay, but yeah, it's been a long circuit of attending these candidate forums, hearing from voters that go to these candidate forums, hearing from folks that are upset that candidates like James Craig and Solomon Kinloake aren't going, hearing from their camp saying these forums aren't where the voters are.
Speaker 3:Well, I certainly have been to forums, and I suppose I'm not a voter.
Speaker 3:You know I had the opportunity to.
Speaker 3:We had a community development event yesterday, and we talked a little bit about this, but it is really just a matter of respect, and it is a matter of feeling like you are too small and too unimportant for people to show up.
Speaker 3:Like how big do I have to be before people are unimportant? We don't attract crowds the size of the Triumph Church ministry, and so maybe there's this thinking that if I can have all these people in my church, you are a small fish and I'm big fish, and that will carry over into the mayoral office, but that doesn't feel good. I have to say, though, yesterday, this week has been really good for me in one way, and that is that it's, you know, mid year. We're in the middle of this very challenging economy, and there are a couple of grants that are coming through, one which is much larger than I expected, and I got word of that yesterday and so it's one of those reminders to be encouraged that when you try to do the right thing, good things can happen, even in tough circumstances. So it's a good day for me to remember also.
Speaker 1:thank you, congratulations, thank you.
Speaker 3:That we are not entirely dependent on government, that there are people who care about the work that we do, and that's the right message for today. But yeah, let's talk about it. It's time for Word on the Street.
Speaker 4:It is. Yeah, we got a few words on the street. We got campaign finance. That happened came down. We saw that Mary Sheffield was the top fundraiser. She altogether has raised $1.2 million since she formed her campaign committee more than a year ago. Since January 1, she has raised almost $800,000. I think it was $730-something thousand dollars. Solomon Kinloch came in second. He raised $407,000. Santil Jenkins raised $400,000. Caveat in there is that she loaned her campaign $71,000 for her own money.
Speaker 3:No, wait a minute. Ken Locke loaned his campaign about $97,000 in in-kind expenses, and so that's a loan. I wonder if there is a cash payment for those in-kind expenses.
Speaker 4:You know it's really interesting when you look at his record campaign finance records and you see the names. You see the treasurer of the church did a max contribution and Robin Kinloch, who also has a role that's his wife within the church. She also gave a max contribution or right near that max. But Todd Perkins is another candidate that gave himself a loan.
Speaker 3:But I'm wondering about an in-kind loan.
Speaker 3:I really want to research what an in-kind loan to a campaign is. If it's a loan and you loan in-kind services to a campaign, does the campaign get paid back with in-kind services? Or does a campaign get paid back with in-kind services or does a campaign get paid back in cash? That was an interesting little caveat. You can look it up, but it was kind of weird to me. One of the interesting things is, if you look at and I haven't been able to do this, I wanted to do this today but I got caught up in work what is the percentage of individual small donations for each of the candidates? Now, I think Bridge Detroit reported a number of small donation candidates to Mary Sheffield, but I didn't see that for the other candidates. It seems like the one who got the least number of really small donations may be Durhall, because Durhall seems to get substantial support from corporate entities. Because Durhal seems to get substantial support from corporate entities.
Speaker 4:Well, I would say the person that got the least amount of donations from individuals was James Craig.
Speaker 4:Oh, I'm sorry, and Joel Hashim and John Barlow. Joel Hashim and John Barlow less than $3,000 combined. I think a little bit more than $3,000 combined. I think Barlow did $2,500 and Joel Hashim did 1,094. That's a bare bones campaign. I'm going to say this on the air because I never published this to Twitter, nor to Detroit. One Million. John Barlow last year told me that he was going to raise $5 million and I didn't know at that time if he was sort of trying to speak that into existence or he had a sort of naive understanding of how you raise money in elections. Because I told John Barlow I said where, from who Like what?
Speaker 3:I think naive is a very nice way of putting it.
Speaker 4:I don't know if he was just saying that or what. I'd have to go back to John Barlow and say why did you tell me that you were going to raise $5 million when you literally raised? You know?
Speaker 3:I could ask in a very cruel way, and I mean this Does that even matter? Like I think, John Barlow is not a significant competitor in any way in this contest, and I think that he has. He overestimates his value and his worth and I, you know, I didn't really have a favorable opinion of him based on our interview with him, but when I saw that he was harassing women, that really turned me off. So but, mary Sheffield, let's talk about Mary Sheffield's campaign.
Speaker 4:She got some donations from Samuel L, she got Cookie Johnson, that's Magic Johnson's wife. Erica Alexander, she played Maxine. Shaw in.
Speaker 1:Living Single.
Speaker 4:Her character went on to inspire, I think, a lot of women to pursue careers in male-dominated fields.
Speaker 3:One of my daughters uses Maxine Shaw as her name on one of the social media apps. So yeah, Maxine Shaw has definitely inspired folks in my home.
Speaker 4:Yes, um, certainly from, uh, greg Mathis and his wife Linda Mathis that's judge Mathis. Um, they must've had some sort of Los Angeles uh based fundraiser. A lot of the LA contributions to her campaign committee came around the same time earlier this year.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I figured that's what it was, that it was Greg Mathis' influence over the whole thing.
Speaker 4:Yeah, you can read a little bit more about that. On Michigan Chronicle I got a story up, I think $36,000 altogether from Los Angeles area donors. Todd Perkins might've surprised some folks. He raised more than $200,000. He only had $82 remaining in his war chest, his campaign account. He spent a lot of remaining in his war chest, his campaign account. He spent a lot of dollars on those billboards, on campaign literature, on yard signs. I've been seeing those yard signs everywhere. I have to tell you, donna, I have really been in every single neighborhood in Detroit and Todd Perkins has the most yard signs up. Yard signs do not vote, they are not people. But I do think it's interesting. I don't know what you know if that strategy is. He's just placing them in homes.
Speaker 3:Clearly he has overperformed what he should be able to accomplish and I think that really speaks to his character. He's an extremely likable person. He has a track record of advocacy in this community. He certainly has a track record as a defense attorney and so I've talked to a few people who knew him because he defended them in the past. But I think he's a good guy and I think it's good to see that people who are not politicians are able to perform so well in these situations, and hopefully that means because the first run doesn't mean that it's your last run, so he could possibly run in the future and win, if not this office, other public office, because people like him.
Speaker 4:They really do. During the Charlie LaDuff-DeVos-funded debate they were asked I think this is one of the better questions asked. Actually I think it was Karen that asked this Dumas, who would you vote for if not yourself? Most of the candidates said Perkins, that sort of behind the scenes. I'll give you guys another behind the scenes here. At a Southwest business rally excuse me, southwest business candidate forum I talked to American Coney Island owner Grace Karros. Grace Karros employs Charlie LaDuff and provides him health insurance. She donated $600 to Sheffield's campaign. I did notice at that early debate it did seem like LaDuff had a favorable attitude toward Mary Sheffield. Attitude toward Mary Sheffield and you know, follow the money, I suppose. Yeah, so you see that $95,000 loan.
Speaker 3:Yes, I've just pulled up the $95,730 loan of in-kind.
Speaker 4:A lot of those donations the highest donations came from members of his church or church leaders across the state. There was a pastor in Indiana. I think there was a couple pastors in Indiana that gave him near the max amount. Pastors supporting Mary Sheffield Go ahead.
Speaker 3:But I want to point out the difference between a cash and an in-kind loan. A cash and an in-kind loan. An in-kind loan is when you provide goods or services to a campaign with the expectation of being repaid later rather than making a direct monetary contribution. So he, on his campaign finance report, is listed as having loaned his campaign $95,000 from himself as in-kind services. What in-kind services did he provide that would be repaid through cash by the campaign is my question, because that's a significant sum of money from the candidate himself. It's unusual Nobody else has loaned their services to their campaign. I would assume that if I'm running for office, my services are part of what's expected of me, but this feels like it may be a loophole or it may be something special.
Speaker 4:I personally would have to go to Simon Schuster and ask him.
Speaker 3:I can't speak on this because I have absolutely no idea, but as a nonprofit leader, I know we have to record in-kind gifts, and so in-kind gifts are not the same. I've never had to record an in-kind gifts and so in-kind gifts are not the same. I've never had to record an in-kind loan and I'm trying to imagine me loaning my services to ECN in-kind when I work for ECN. If I'm the candidate, how am I also loaning my services to the organization? Is it because I write my own speeches or because I design my own website? What am I doing Right? That would differentiate that work from my work as a candidate. I'm interested in that, not because of it's Solomon Kinloch, I'm just interested in the impact on campaign law.
Speaker 3:And maybe we can ask somebody in the future to come we could.
Speaker 4:we could ask Simon Schuster right now and I could call him up and he would do that. But Simon Schuster. Simon Schuster. You know Simon? No, he's a great guy. I knew Simon when he was just getting into journalism. He was the former director of the Campaign Finance Network. He currently is a reporter at Bridge, Michigan. Simon is the foremost expert on campaign finance in Michigan the state of Michigan.
Speaker 3:Simon Schuster sounds like a publisher. Yes, but it's not. That's his name. Yes, okay.
Speaker 4:He often gets. You do understand why.
Speaker 3:On Twitter, when you said you were going to ask Simon Schuster. I thought you were.
Speaker 4:Going to look it up. No, no, no, no, no. I'm going to ask A person named Simon Schuster.
Speaker 3:Well, maybe we can have Simon Schuster.
Speaker 4:Come on. Yes we could I understand these campaign terms he lives in Lansing but he is down here frequently and he actually lived in Detroit for two years, from 13 to 15, I believe. So I see Simon quite often actually and he's been over to my house and he's good friends with my roommate and NPR Michigan.
Speaker 3:NPR reporter Colin Jackson.
Speaker 4:And so we've all, yeah, we all know each other.
Speaker 3:I mean, if I was his parents, I would say oh, wait a minute, my last name is Schuster. I'm going to name my child Simon Schuster, because that's really cool, right? And I was like that's what happened.
Speaker 4:That's what they did. James Tate is the city council pro tem. Very interesting because he sits right next to Mary on council and is her sort of deputy when Mary is not at council. As serving as president James Tate is. He gave Kinloch $1,000. And so I thought that was really interesting, I mean.
Speaker 3:James Tate is also a pastor. Yes, and so you know, I think, that there are people who belong to the church and or are affiliated with the church who support him, affiliated with the church, who support him. It's interesting because I know some people who gave $500 to both his campaign and to Santil Jenkins' campaign. These people belong to the church, right, but so it's like, does giving somebody money mean that you're supporting them in those instances, or is there this tendency to support your pastor financially, which people who belong to churches do, while also having other preferences politically?
Speaker 4:Right? Well, he did not give any money to Mary Sheffield's campaign, so I'm going to say that he's supporting Kinloch.
Speaker 3:I would imagine that he didn't support Mary Sheffield. Mary Sheffield is city council president and getting there is a political process. She leapfrogged a number of people who thought maybe they should be council president, and that speaks to her political skills, because getting other members to elect you into this role is not easy, and I know other people who have wanted to be, you know, who want to lead city council, who never were able to do so. So I think it speaks to a certain level of political acumen that she doesn't always get credit for it doesn't mean that there's not things you know, because sometimes when you're rivals and you work really closely with somebody, you know things about them that other people should not know, and so maybe he can ask you why don't you think any of her council colleagues currently are supporting her publicly?
Speaker 3:I mean, I looked through all the campaign statements and I didn't see her city council colleagues supporting other people other than Kenlock.
Speaker 4:And maybe I'd have to read it through again. No, I mean like in endorsements, like no one has come out and stood with Mary Sheffield's campaign, not Angela Whitfield, calloway, mary Waters, coleman Young, gabrielle Santiago Romero or Letitia Johnson or James Hayden.
Speaker 3:I think that most of them are not going to politically align themselves. There's two colleagues, Mary Sheffield and Fred Durhall, and neither of them have gotten their colleagues support and I don't think that that means that they will not vote for them.
Speaker 4:Sure.
Speaker 3:I think it could mean that I want to remain politically neutral. If I put my money on the table or I do things like that, if I'm also running for reelection first of all, that could be a problem. I know that there are also people who work with her. I know one person in particular who does not trust or like her, and so when you're working with people again very closely, a lot of times you develop opinions of them. I don't necessarily think that the failure to support means anything other than we're just not giving support to at this stage in the race. Now, during the general election, it's possible that you're going to start seeing them show up.
Speaker 4:Right. I would expect it and I think it is notable if that were not to happen. Pastors supporting Mary Sheffield include Wendell Anthony and he's a NAACP president Charles Ellis, who was in the news recently, and another pastor who is not supporting Mary Sheffield because he's running against her was also in the news recently Solomon Kinloch. I'm segueing now into the other word on the street. Right, it was not a good week for Detroit pastors. In the news, solomon Kinloch's 33-year-old assault against his ex-wife, who he says is a member of Triumph Church.
Speaker 1:It would be really nice if she.
Speaker 4:She has not reached back out to the Detroit Free Press. Violet Iconimova reached out to Kinloch's ex-wife, but she has not yet responded. Iconimova wrote.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think that Honestly.
Speaker 4:And the details of this story are quite something. There's two things.
Speaker 3:There's two aspects to this case. One of them is what he did to his ex-wife and whether he reconciled with his ex-wife. The other piece of this is violence against women and whether or not he has done things to make women who are survivors of domestic violence feel trust in his campaign. Survivors of domestic violence feel trust in his campaign and I think you rightly pointed out, if you're supporting Solomon Kinloch, you're not going to change your level of support because of the fact that 33 years ago or 30 some years ago, he committed this crime. But keep in mind, this is not a mistake, the way some of his colleagues have tried to characterize it. This is not a faux pas. This is an intentional act of violence against a woman. Okay, that left her not only impacted but injured. He fled the scene of the crime before the police could arrive there and he and his ex-wife had a fractious relationship up to their divorce. He he, you know filed for divorce, took it back. Whatever. They weren't living together. There's a lot of trauma.
Speaker 4:Yeah, they filed for divorce 11 years after this February 1993 incident.
Speaker 3:Well, he filed, I think, and then he didn't. So it's all interesting, and I'm not. I don't know the details. Nobody knows the details of what happens inside of a relationship. I just know this Domestic violence is never the answer to marital problems, and certainly not this level of domestic violence.
Speaker 3:I mean domestic violence is, and the thing I was sharing with you is the kinds of things that get reported are the violence part. But women who are survivors of domestic violence can generally tell you that that's only part of the violence against women, right? There's the name calling, there's the gaslighting, there's the manipulation, there's the fear that you can impose just by looking at a person a certain way. That ends up impacting survivors of domestic violence for the rest of their lives, impacting survivors of domestic violence for the rest of their lives. And I can say this because in that same timeframe I was also dealing with domestic violence. I'm also a survivor of domestic violence and I still am impacted by things that happened to me so long ago that other people would say, well, that's past. I've been married twice since then. So you know, it's not like I have not moved on in that way. But if you ask my husband now, he can tell you about ways that I'm still damaged, that fears that I have, about hurt that I have, and sometimes I wake up, or in my dreams and other things, that the scars are there.
Speaker 3:So when somebody does something like that and we've all made mistakes all I'm saying is be accountable, not to the people in your church, not to the hiring committee, not to your inner circle of friends, but when you are running for public office, the public has the right to know and understand that you have changed and the way that members of his campaign treated well, this happened a long time ago. No use in bringing up that baggage, and they've also described what the news reporting of this as mud slinging. I don't know if any of these people have ever watched a political campaign before and understood that people's histories will be scrutinized. Certainly. If you've committed a crime, it will be scrutinized. Be scrutinized. Certainly. If you've committed a crime, it will be scrutinized.
Speaker 3:There was a reporting on Mary Sheffield's drunk driving incident when she was 22 years old just a few years older than the domestic violence incident and so she had to talk about that. She has talked about that, to my knowledge, and as bad as drunk driving is, and it is bad and it can kill people. Domestic violence, putting your hands on another person, putting a weapon against a person's neck, having scratches and bleeding on their face and their scalp, and this person being unable to walk that is an intentional, deliberate act of harm to another person and to not account for that I think could be harmful in some ways.
Speaker 4:When you talk about the 16% undecided voters. If it is Mary and Kinloch in the general, it's going to be tough. I do think that where Santeel Jenkins, if it is Mary and Kinloch, what Santeel decides to do, we know that she does not support, favor Mary Sheffield and we know that she has been warming up to Kinloch since dropping the sort of scorched earth end at the WDIV debate talking about if you want to, you know, halftime, if you want a part-time mayor, then elect Kinloch. If you want somebody to follow on Instagram, elect Mary. They have sort of, you know, reconciled that. I don't think that was a big deal really to Kinloch. But could we see Suntil sort of join the Kinloch crew and could that be sort of a rehabilitary thing for people that are sort of, I don't know, thinking about this story?
Speaker 3:It wouldn't matter for me, and it may matter for some people. I can't really speak for other people. I can say this when you are so far ahead in the polls, everybody's coming for you, everybody's going to try to knock you off the king of the hill, off the throne. Mary Sheffield has had a commanding lead in all respects during this campaign and so of course, people are coming for her that don't come from other people.
Speaker 3:I think the questions that Santil Jenkins raised whether or not he would be a part-time pastor or a full-time pastor are significant questions.
Speaker 3:And if she decided that they weren't significant questions because she disliked Mary Sheffield so much, or she decided that Mary Sheffield's lack of availability was more important whatever lack of availability was more important, whatever then I think it may also kind of cut against some people who trusted her to be different, because I think people are looking for candidates who are acting on their values around the work that's going to be done. So I think the real question is whether Santil Jenkins' belief systems align more closely with Mary Sheffield's than his. Now, when I hear them in debates, they actually have very similar campaign promises and a lot of people you know, but they're both talking about, for example, the half penny or Detroit penny tax right. They're both talking about generating new sources of income. They both have similar about generating new sources of income. They both have similar attitudes around neighborhood development and things that you do. I don't see a lot of sunlight. I think the real question between Santil and Mary is personality.
Speaker 4:Right Now. I would go as far to say, and I'm going to say it, I would go as far to say that they hate each other.
Speaker 3:I think that there is strong contentious feelings between both Mary and Suntil and again, when you're running campaigns, you're going to generate a lot of dislike for each other, hate each other. I think hate is a strong word. I think that they have intense dislike for each other and that's what happens. I mean, you look at, you know any kind of. I think at one time Mary Sheffield perceived Santil Jenkins to be her greatest threat. She's a current council president. Santil Jenkins is a former council president. Mary Sheffield, I believe, lodged the first you know grenade at Santil Jenkins.
Speaker 4:At the senior home.
Speaker 3:At the senior home.
Speaker 4:Yeah. And so Santil told me that Mary went and yelled in her mom's face yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:I mean, you know, when things like that happen, I'm not forgiving and I'm not forgetting that Mary did that for political purposes. Santil has said things for political purposes. That's woman against woman, right? But they both love the city of Detroit. Yes, I do believe that, and I believe both of them want what's best for the city of Detroit.
Speaker 3:So I hope that whoever Santil Jenkins supports if she's not number two and I think it's very possible, santil Jenkins is going to be number two actually at the polls but if she's not number two, I hope that her love for the city outweighs personal grievances so that she's making decisions based on what she thinks is best for Detroit and not what's best for whatever kind of personal agenda she has, because people then have to somehow make amends after political races. You see it all the time in national political races or in state political races. Sometimes the VP candidate was running against the presidential candidate and then they end up together. Remember, kamala Harris and Joe Biden had a very, very controversial debate where she called him out on busing and some other comments and she ended up being his VP Because he decided that she made him strong.
Speaker 3:Now at the end there, I don't think they particularly like each other now and liking each other in politics is, in my opinion, it is kind of a luxury Right. You're not running for races and you're not doing this because you like each other, If you rule or if you lead in politics based on who you like.
Speaker 4:I would even say for me, relationships are very opportunistic in politics.
Speaker 3:Well, it's not even just opportunistic. I don't even look at it as I think this. I run a nonprofit. There's people I like, there's people I don't like, who work here, who are partners with this organization and it's none of their business whether I like them or not. Sure, okay, I have a responsibility as a professional to put the needs of this organization above my personal needs, my personal friendships that's a personal problem. Above my personal needs, my personal friendships that's a personal problem. And I believe also, all leaders should really look at protecting the institutions they seek to lead over personal grudges.
Speaker 3:It's very possible that Santill Jenkins believes that Pastor Kinloch would make a better mayor than Mary Sheffield, or that Mary Sheffield will make a better mayor than Pastor Kinloch, would make a better mayor than Mary Sheffield, or that Mary Sheffield will make a better mayor than Pastor Kinloch. Whatever she believes, I hope that she throws her support or stands down and allows the voters to decide, because I think you know the other thing is, if I was running and I was number two, I try to figure out who to put on my ticket, or, because you don't really, they don't run together. This is going to be my deputy mayor. I'm going to team up with you and I'm going to try to figure out a place for you in my administration. And you saw that that's what Barack Obama did with Hillary Clinton, and she was no. I mean, her campaign against him was aggressive, it was racist, it was yeah. And yet she was secretary of state because he understood the value and utility of giving her a place in his camp.
Speaker 3:So this is what politics looks like, and the reason it makes sense to do this politically is because in politics, you have to build support for the things you want to do, and the support that you need is not just from the people who, like you. It's got to be from people who see that there's an interest in them in helping to get things done. So it can be opportunistic, but it's also just the way that power works. That's the way that leadership works. Great leaders know how to work with people who have hurt them, let them down, disappointed them, and people who they love and admire.
Speaker 3:And so, anyway, that's just my little commercial, for let there be peace between these women, and I hate to see women pitted against each other. They're both accomplished, brilliant women who've done a good job at what they do, given the circumstances. In my opinion, all of the people running for this race are accomplished, intelligent people Well, most of them. Perkins is an accomplished attorney. Durhall is an accomplished council person or politician, also having served in the state house. Kinloch is an accomplished pastor. We're not talking about people who have not demonstrated leadership, and so all of them have shown the ability to lead in ways that are helpful to our community.
Speaker 4:I would say even even Hashim and Barlow have shown.
Speaker 3:Definitely, hashim. I haven't honestly I haven't seen it in Barlow.
Speaker 4:Sometimes I see it with Barlow cause. It'll be around kids and he make you know he's like a coach and so I've seen leadership in that.
Speaker 3:But that's not the kind of leadership, Not as a mayor. Leader of people right. Sure have you been able to lead people in a broader setting, maybe not his peers.
Speaker 4:He certainly can lead children.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, and if he was running for daycare or school teacher. But he's also demonstrated some real ethical challenges. The first ethical challenge that came out was when he hijacked everybody's website and it was a political stunt that he said oh, I had nothing to do with it. Well, who had the benefit of doing this? I don't know if you remember this, but there was this thing. At some point he had taken out names like Sheffield for mayor, that's actually a very common in state legislative races, that happens every time.
Speaker 3:He did it for every single candidate Mallory.
Speaker 4:Like Abdul and Mallory did it against each other. Haley Stevens. We see that with state legislators all the time. It's very common, it's illegal. Oh no, no, no, it's very common.
Speaker 3:It's illegal. And what he did for every single council member because it's illegal, he said he didn't have anything to do with it. It's literally illegal. It's a violation of I forget what they call it, but it's a violation of law for you to impersonate somebody else during a campaign, and he impersonated every single candidate.
Speaker 4:that was known to run against him If he was impersonating. That's much different. What will happen and this happened with Haley and Mallory was they'll put sort of gotcha kind of like. It'll be HaleyStevensForMichigancom and when you go to the launch page it was a picture of Ray Mallory's husband and her and their dog being like ha ha.
Speaker 3:So that's a little bit different than impersonation. This was Sheffield for mayor, Jenkins for mayor, and when you clicked on the link it linked to Barlow for mayor and so all these accomplishments, see, no, that's actually common, that's a common practice. It's, it's actually illegal and so you should tell the state legislature.
Speaker 3:Well I will if I ever see them do that. I've never seen anything where everybody did it, made the news and people talked about it and he denied having done that. So it's a practice that should not be done and I think it's unethical and I think that what it did was turn me off. But then what he did with those women when he was harassing women when they were hanging out, he was drunk, he was disorderly and he was disrespectful and then he was not apologetic for it and blamed them for whatever. It's just problematic to me.
Speaker 4:Thankfully, you know, we have one more week of talking about John Barlow and Joel Hashim, but the candidate that I've seen no leadership qualities, danetta Simpson I was turned off and offended by her presence at one of the forums where she would look back at the screen wasn't paying attention. She couldn't figure out how to turn her phone off. Barlow actually had to snatch her phone out of James Craig's hands because neither of these individuals could figure out how to touch the side button on the side of your iphone. That makes it go from ring to silent.
Speaker 3:um, so I I honestly, I I I've never seen her this is interesting, she'll respond.
Speaker 4:She says she'll go to the canada forums. Then she just wasn't, won't show up, yeah so I'm not.
Speaker 3:I'm not. I was just saying that of those I've met and I haven't seen her, I actually like Joel Hashim. Yeah, sure he was a little bit thin-skinned and blamed us for some stuff, but he's got a really strong understanding of the needs and it seems like he really cares and has, and he was there at the event last night, as was Barlow.
Speaker 4:I will give a shout out to Rogelio Linden, who we have not spoken much about. He is out of Southwest Detroit. He's talking about annexation. There's a few writing candidates that I've seen most often is Arnold Boyd. Shout out to Arnold. But yeah, I think going forward, obviously, as we see Perkins, santeill, mary and Kinloch. Those are the four individuals I believe will be the top four vote-getters. I believe Fred Durhall will be right behind either Perkins or Suntill Jenkins and I got to say it again, I tweeted it out this afternoon but yard signs don't vote. People do. But I see tons of Perkins yard signs. I've seen more Perkins yard signs than anywhere else. And don't tell me that it's because of where I live or anything like that I have driven every single neighborhood in the city.
Speaker 3:He has a following and people like him, and I don't think he's going to make it to the top two, but he's definitely going to be in the conversation, as is Durhall, and I have to give Durhall credit. He has actually outperformed and outperformed and he's growing.
Speaker 4:He's won a lot of these forums and debates. When I go at the end and talk to people and say, who do you think won that? A lot of people who say, well, I'm not actually supporting Fred, but I think he was the sharpest. I think he had the best clear-cut, spelled-out, mapped-out, outlined policies, whether it be the blight tax proposal that I think you know is sort of a more progressive version of the land value tax that Duggan was trying to get through the legislature. That didn't have any success.
Speaker 4:You know, I think it's interesting. You talk about Marshall Bullock being the city liaison. He was also on the state board of education. Marshall Bullock being the city liaison, he was also on the state board of education. I think that's a role that Fred could find himself in. Fred could do a lot. I think he's really really made a strong sort of runway into whatever. His next role is Charlie LaDuff. At the Southwest Business Association that was hosted by Grace Karros, he asked Fred outside afterward what are you going to do after this? And other than being the mayor, fred said I'm not sure.
Speaker 3:Yeah, let me just express my disgust with Charlie Duff. Charlie Duff is not somebody who is a serious journalist, in my opinion, and I don't think he entered into that form with good intentions. I think he entered into that form with the intent of being disruptive and embarrassing folks and whatever, and in a serious race such as this, I think he did more harm and shed more heat than light well, I think he was based on his employer being a donor to Mary Sheffield.
Speaker 4:I think he was, you know, giving Mary a preferable treatment in that way and I think Fred was getting beat up unfairly.
Speaker 3:I don't think he gave any. I don't think he gave Mary. I think he came out and said none of these people are qualified. I think he came out and said that at the debate, so I will tell you that there was a moment in which Mary spouted back to Suntil.
Speaker 4:Suntil said I haven't seen Mary Sheffield at any of these I-375 meetings. And Mary hit back and said you may not have seen me there because I don't talk, I do. And Charlie's reaction was one of a supporter.
Speaker 3:I mean his reaction was one of ooh, that's good because that's a good comeback right. But the reality is that people left that debate and they didn't say oh look, mary Sheffield looks great. I think I want to vote for her. The response I saw overwhelming response was none of these people are qualified. And both he and another person said none of these people are qualified.
Speaker 4:We don't even have to say that other person's name.
Speaker 3:But yeah, I mean. The reality is that when you host a debate and the conclusion is none of these people are qualified, you're not helping anybody on that campaign. I think that he may have an employer who has one intent, but the people who paid for that event were Traverse City Republicans and they had a MAGA intent.
Speaker 4:The people who paid for. That is the Michigan Freedom Fund, funded solely by Betsy DeVos and DeVos and so Betsy.
Speaker 3:DeVos and Mary Shetfield. I think it would be kind of slanderous to suggest that Mary Shetfield has a relationship with Betsy DeVos unless you have evidence of the same.
Speaker 4:Well, I will say Mary has leaned in to her Republican surrogates, or Trump voting surrogates. Mark Savaya, obviously she appeared at that Trump party hosted by the Trump supporting event planner. But even recently, in the past weeks, with Iceware Vezzo, who invited RFK Jr, who is the health secretary, and, of course, sada Baby, who was on stage at Lorenzo Sewell's church Mary just held an event with him as the headline.
Speaker 3:And I think that all of the campaigns, if you look at them, have received Republican-leaning donations and we have to give all of them the same scrutiny, James Craig being the foremost, james Craig got $8,300 from Ron Weiser.
Speaker 4:That was his biggest and when you look at James Craig's donations, the story of I mean the story really comes to. Why was Dennis Archer and some others really trying to tell me and others that watch out for James Craig, watch out for James Craig, watch out for James Craig. Why were they saying that?
Speaker 3:I'm to this day? I'm not sure. Well, yes, you are, but if you look at your, they're saying that because they wanted him to be the candidate.
Speaker 3:Okay, but if you look at who the chamber pack supported, who did the chamber pack support? Not Mary Sheffield. They supported Durr Hall. If you look at a lot of the, who did DTE support, dte supported Santil Jenkins, not Mary Sheffield. I think that when you're getting big money, you're going to get big money from places that may or may not be in keeping with the values of your voters, because rich people have the money to support campaigns and, unfortunately, we don't do a great job in our community of supporting candidates, because one of the other stories that came out is most of the money came from outside of Detroit, yes, so, whether or not we believe that DTE has Republican leanings, I think that we can look at how they make campaign donations in the state and see that they do.
Speaker 4:Yes, interesting.
Speaker 3:It does not make Santel Jenkins a Republican, right, it does not make Santel Jenkins a Republican when she had to come out in a campaign. In one of the debates they said who are your corporate folks? And she listed DTE among them. And you know there's a lot of people who don't love DTE right now and believe that we need to have legislation against DTE. Right now I'm working with 42 Forward on an effort to have a fair share surcharge.
Speaker 3:What is it? Petition drive, where you're trying to get a valid initiative, and I'm going to be in Lansing tomorrow morning trying to advocate for this fair share surcharge. But the chamber has come out against taxing the rich and they've made up some real strange stuff. And so who is the chamber aligned with? You'll find that they're aligned with all of the same people, as these people supporting Mary Sheffield. It's like which Republican do you have in your board Also, I think it's fair to note too.
Speaker 4:It's not always. You can't just look at somebody's campaign uh, you know campaign finance report and say, oh, they took $20,000 from DTE. They must well DTE and blue cross, blue shield and all these. When you look at the state, they donate to Republicans and Democrats, oftentimes evenly.
Speaker 3:Just in the case of what, when one gets elected, the chamber pack is going to align itself more closely with people, and you know so some of these people, yeah, they may give equally, and a lot of them give, but they don't give equally. If you look, you can say, ok, this person gave to all of these campaigns and that's one of the things. You may want to take some time to tease apart, because in fact, it is not usually just equal. But I think that if we're going to call people out for having Sada Baby, sada Baby is a rapper. She has a whole bunch of rappers supporting her. Detroit hip-hop artists have always been her little strong suit, and so I think he appeared on stage, but he's certainly bigger than that stage in terms of the Detroit community, Sure.
Speaker 4:He is bigger than being a Trump supporter.
Speaker 3:Well, yeah, so I think that.
Speaker 4:He is a Trump supporter.
Speaker 3:Well, well, yeah, so I think that he is a Trump supporter? Well, okay, but the reality is that that's not have Detroit residents disavowed him as being a Trump supporter.
Speaker 4:Has he been alienated? Yes, Vezzo, I mean there's more political issues surrounding Sada Baby himself, which I could get into, but I'm not.
Speaker 3:I'm not saying but.
Speaker 4:Vezzo received a lot of criticism and he recently spoke about that criticism on Kid L's podcast. I tweeted out a clip of Vezzo talking about and PZ as well. Pz was, I think, one of the more vocal Trump supporters. Also, these people are all managed by a woman named Chanel Dominique. Chanel Dominique also gave Mary money.
Speaker 3:Ice Cube, ice Cube Killer, mike Snoop what's his name? Nelly? These are all Trump supporters too.
Speaker 4:I don't know that Snoop Dogg is a Trump supporter.
Speaker 3:Okay, I'm sorry, he performed at the event.
Speaker 4:If Sada Baby appearing at a Trump event and Snoop Dogg is a Trump supporter, okay, I'm sorry he performed at the event.
Speaker 3:If Sada Baby appearing at a Trump event and Snoop appearing at a Trump event are not, the same, very different.
Speaker 4:Sada was on stage with Trump. Snoop was performing at an event hosted by, I think, dave Ackman.
Speaker 3:At a Trump inauguration event.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 3:And so we can split hairs and give one person the benefit of the doubt and not another, but the reality is that the hip-hop community what's sexy red? Supported Trump.
Speaker 4:She went back on her support. She actually disavowed it, and Snoop Dogg has since sort of taken the criticism and said I'm not a Trump supporter.
Speaker 3:But all I'm saying is I doubt very many black rappers are Trump supporters right now, because the reality is that Trump is coming out against black people in spades and so there's a lot of regret that goes around. What I'm saying is we have to have a consistent ruler. We can't decide that this person who supported Trump is worse than this person who supported Trump just because I don't like who this person is affiliated with. So we don't like Mary Sheffield, so therefore her Trump affiliations matter, but this person's Trump affiliations don't matter, I don't hear people talking about that as Well I know.
Speaker 3:but even as we're discussing the campaign, I think it's important that we give equal accountability to the fact that dark money, that bad money, is coming into this campaign. I think that the truth is that most of the money coming into this campaign is not Detroiters.
Speaker 4:Yes, that is true. Yes, and you can go read about that on. Malachi Made a Felt Map. I'm British, detroit, if you look up top mayoral candidates, I wanted to add too, it was interesting to me, the chamber PAC, different than the Detroit Regional Chamber itself, the Detroit regional chambers chief diversity officer which they still have um Sherry Lynn Farrell. She also donated to Solomon Kinloch as well, sort of breaking from the PAC. That is not the actual Detroit. It was very much like she's not giving, yeah, she's not giving on behalf of the chamber.
Speaker 3:That's her job. Yes, the chamber PAC speaks for the chamber itself. You know it was also Justin Doris, mike Duggan, who you know, whatever, but I'm just saying that I think it's important to understand, because sometimes we have gotcha moments with some candidates and not others. The reality is that we're getting money from outside Detroit. Probably the person who has the least amount of money from those sources is Solomon Kinloch, because Solomon Kinloch has a lot of donations that are small, that look like church donations, and so it'd be easy to go through that. I don't see many pecs supporting him.
Speaker 4:I don't see many. He actually received $0 from California. Mary received $36,000. You know, and the idea that Mary is she. Somebody asked me is Mary a celebrity? And I say, well, you know, by 21st century standards, you know she does have a considerable Instagram following that I believe is well above 40,000. Um, you know, she is networking in Chicago at fundraisers with folks that supported Brandon Johnson's campaign. Um, she is close with you know, through her father. Um, with Greg Mathis, judge Mathis, and Judge Mathis has youis, has his Hollywood LA connections. So I think it's kind of interesting.
Speaker 3:She also sponsors the Occupy the Corner event. Yes, and that event every year brings all of these rappers Sada Baby, big Sean Skilla.
Speaker 4:Baby and others. We saw Jawan Howard and Chris Weber.
Speaker 3:Right. So there's always been this Occupy the Corner.
Speaker 4:Long before this run for mayor, that she's done, which has attracted younger hip-hop artists and I think there is a real credit owed to Mary for being unapologetic. I wrote about this in Axios two years ago when she held a gun buyback event with Skilla Baby and there were conservative provocateurs online under my tweets criticizing Skilla Baby's lyrics, sort of saying this is hypocritical. Why would you do an event with this kid who's rapping about killing people? Mary understands, and this is you know. I sort of said this. You can go on my Twitter and search through my videos. Mary understands that community. I think you know I sort of said this. You can go on my Twitter and search through my videos. Mary understands that community. I think better than anybody that's in elected office Does that community. How important is that community to Detroiters as a whole? You know it's very important to me.
Speaker 3:I had this conversation Because I don't know that those individuals live in Detroit. But I think there's two things there's the culture and there's the people. The culture youth hip-hop culture is part of Detroit and young people.
Speaker 4:It's one of our greatest exports.
Speaker 3:Yes. So when you look at 30 and under being part of that culture 30 and under black folks being part of a hip-hop culture in Detroit by and large not everybody right Then really she is reflective of, or she's connected to, that under-30 hip-hop culture. The fact that you have 10 times more voting participation by people my age than people under 30 speak to the fact that nobody's really doing a great job politically in reaching young people. The reason so many people in the hip hip hop community reached out to Donald Trump is because Donald Trump reached out to them and in some instances it's like well, he sees me, they don't see me.
Speaker 3:I think a lot of people see the Democratic Party as appealing to respectable black people and not black folks who don't meet those respectability standards, and so sometimes there's the protest vote, the you know what, since Democrats are on my side, I'm going to vote for the other guy, and I think a lot of that was what was happening there. As opposed to true alignment with Trump's messaging. It was more so. You know what, kamala, we see you. You're not about us, you're not for us.
Speaker 3:Whether fair or unfair, that's how I think a lot of people feel is politically invisible and irrelevant. I think it is up to politicians to make people or to bring people into relevance in their campaigns. What I'm hoping for and I haven't yet, we haven't yet tested it out If she makes it to the general election, I think we should have a youth debate where we allow young people to ask questions relevant to them and see how well she answers young people's questions in this community, because it's one thing to have Occupy the Corner and it's another thing to have policies that reflect the needs, interests and values of people in between these concerts yeah, gabriel Duren is a Southwest Detroit artist.
Speaker 4:He actually asked her a question at the most recent maybe not the most recent, but the Southwest Grassroots Community Forum about supporting business and arts and entertainment. A lot of people feel like, especially in Southwest venues, event spaces, artistic spaces are over-pleased. I've also heard this from DJs. This was in New Center, maybe two months ago. She held a um event specifically geared toward entertainment in Detroit and the nightlife scene. Um, you know I have not seen other candidates um lean into that. I think Todd Perkins has been on the kid L show Um, so I mean, that's probably the closest that you'll get to that Um and that you know it has been a very um interesting she. She definitely will reach out to young people in a way that perhaps nobody even on city council is currently doing.
Speaker 3:I want to see policy aligned with that outreach, and so again during the general campaign.
Speaker 4:What do you think about the policy of curfew? I think the curfew is outlandish Gabby was the only one to vote against it.
Speaker 3:I'm offended by it. I think that, and I think that that again speaks to the sometimes the distance between policy and you know, and imagery. These shootings that happened during the fireworks were not 16-year-olds. A lot of what's happening is not teenagers, but teenagers are the ones being scapegoated by public policy, and so what you're doing is criminalizing the outdoors for young people in the evening, and I think that's horrible. I think that it's damaging and does the wrong thing. I think if we want to stop violent crime, there are other answers. It's a really, really bad answer to me and I'm offended by it.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it was interesting to me to see young people parade this. I just think about if this is happening in a white community and this is like would never White communities do not have curfews for their kids?
Speaker 3:you know, white kids don't have to wear uniforms.
Speaker 4:Majority white schools, you know white kids can walk across and go to their friend's house that lives three blocks away and ride there like growing up, spending 12 years in midland, michigan. And then the hearing is like, oh you know, lights out on curfew and if not, your parents are gonna get to get fined. I mean, that's a constitutional issue in Midland. That's be like you know, I would never fly. That would never fly because people would know their rights and I just feel like it's rights getting violated.
Speaker 3:People would have those rights and then to criminalize parents. A few years ago, maybe 10 years ago, a friend of mine had a teenage son and she invited people over for fireworks downtown and her son and his friends went to Buffalo Wild Wings and they were going to be there past 8 pm and I remember the panic and so I went to Buffalo Wild Wings to sit with them so they would be safe and they would not be arrested with them. So they would be safe and they would not be arrested. But imagine having to sit down with these three nerdy kids right, because they're like the least starting people in the world, but knowing that they could be harmed and I'm thinking of 2010 and 11 and 12 of me being young 14, 15, 16, always out.
Speaker 4:As soon as I was turned 16, all my friends had cars. We were out until midnight.
Speaker 3:Well, I mean, listen, I was out until that passed then Okay, listen no it's serious.
Speaker 3:Hey, we hung, we were hanging out, and I think about all the things that we did that would be criminal right now, and things that people get in trouble for but not have records for is ridiculous. And then you have the other issue, and the other issue is selective enforcement. If you have a kid who seems very clean cut, who seems very respectable and coming from the right side of town, and you have a kid who is, you know, white, living in Detroit, will they be treated the same as a kid who doesn't fit those respectability images? Or will police target certain types of kids because you look like thugs and that kind of policy opens it up to interpretation of police officers about who gets to be here and who does not. I'm offended by it. I think that that should not have happened. Unfortunately, in an election year and otherwise, people are always thinking about getting reelected and being anti-youth sells, especially anti-black youth it is a political to other black people though
Speaker 4:oh, absolutely, absolutely, because internalized racism is racism right and we think what is the phrase that we call our kids? Now, we don't even call them kids and children. What do they say?
Speaker 1:I don't know, they say y ends oh I don't know, it's online.
Speaker 3:YNs. Oh, I don't know.
Speaker 4:It's online culture.
Speaker 3:You don't even know All the people are laughing, not listening to this.
Speaker 4:I have no idea, donna, you are going to learn today. Yns, that's what they call the kids with the mask sign.
Speaker 3:Okay, I want you to know they're called YNs this, so I will know how young people think.
Speaker 4:Ask your son.
Speaker 3:Ask him what's a YN? Well, my son is in California, in LA.
Speaker 4:He knows, he knows what that is.
Speaker 3:I bet he doesn't.
Speaker 4:He does. No, I promise he does Okay.
Speaker 3:I'm going to ask him and I doubt he knows he will. Okay, maybe he does. He lives his life. You know, it's so funny. He, this black gay male who walks through the world like he is not subject to any level of discrimination. He carries himself in such a way and he just tunes it out Honestly Sounds like he's free, he is.
Speaker 3:We were at the Hotter Than July Film Festival and they had this film up there and they were asking about political statements. They said do you ever worry about people trying to tone police you? And he looked so confused like huh. And they had his film up there and they were asking about political statements and what kind. They said do you ever worry about people trying to tone police you? And he looked so confused like huh Because he doesn't really care. And he's always been that way. He's always had a way of just knocking things. So maybe he does know about it, but it doesn't bother him. And that doesn't mean he's not bothered by racism or homophobia, it just means that you don't hear him complaining about a lot. Anyway, this is great. I'm really excited about the fact that we are going to come to you next week just after the elections.
Speaker 4:This is so long coming, guys. I really thank everyone that has told me that they've listened to this.
Speaker 3:Yes, I mean, I am, I'm so excited about next week no-transcript, but I know that you're helping to build their readership because you have a following. Anyway, have a nice day and enjoy and make sure you vote by next Tuesday.
Speaker 4:If you're not registered, don't worry about it, you can register the same day.
Speaker 3:If voting is your responsibility. If you want change, if you want things to stay the same, stay home. But if you want change, vote. The politicians may or may not agree with what you're doing or saying, but the reality is, when you vote, and when people on your block vote, and when people in your demographic vote, you are treated with more respect than when you don't. When you vote, especially if you're young, you end up balancing the voices of people who are my age, who don't know what YN means, with people your age who do.
Speaker 1:All right, have a nice day, we'll be right back. Thank you, the. Thank you. The, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the. Thank you.
