Authentically Detroit
Authentically Detroit is the leading podcast in the city for candid conversations, exchanging progressive ideas, and centering resident perspectives on current events.
Hosted by Donna Givens Davidson and Orlando P. Bailey.
Produced by Sarah Johnson and Engineered by Griffin Hutchings.
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Authentically Detroit
Black Detroit Democracy Podcast: Power, Money, and Representation in Detroit Politics
The Authentically Detroit Podcast Network in collaboration with Detroit One Million presents: The Black Detroit Democracy Podcast, hosted by Donna Givens Davidson and Sam Robinson!
Together, Donna and Sam illuminate the complexities of Detroit’s unique political landscape and give residents a resource for navigating civic engagement and election season.
In this episode, they discuss how corporate money is strangling Detroit's democracy, and politicians who claim to represent citizens are increasingly serving other interests. Following Karen Whitsett's troubling vote, where she sided with Republicans on issues vital to Detroit residents, they examined how financial influence corrupts our political system and what citizens can do to fight back.
For more episodes of the Black Detroit Democracy Podcast, click here.
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Speaker 2:Detroit One Million is a journalism project started by Sam Robinson that centers a generation of Michiganders growing up in a state without a city with one million people. Support the only independent reporter covering the 2025 Detroit mayoral race through the lens of young people.
Speaker 3:Good journalism costs. Visit DetroitOneMillioncom to the Black Detroit Democracy Podcast. Every week, we open this podcast with a reading of the preamble to the Detroit City Charter, read by the one and only Bryce Detroit. The city charter is our constitution, which defines our rights and the way government should work. I'm Donna Givens-Davidson, president and CEO of the Eastside Community Network.
Speaker 4:And I'm Sam Robinson, founder of Detroit. One Million.
Speaker 3:Thank you for listening in and supporting this expanded effort to build another platform of authentic voices for real people in the city of Detroit. We want you to like, rate and subscribe to our podcast on all platforms. The purpose of this podcast is to encourage Detroit citizens to stay vigilant in the fight for justice and equality. With a special call to action for Black Detroit, we seek to build awareness of our history as a gateway to freedom, a beacon for justice and a laboratory of liberation. Welcome back to the Black Detroit Democracy Podcast. Sam, how are you today?
Speaker 4:I'm good, school is back in session. The kids are outside today at 1130. There was recess and I heard kids laughing and playing. We still don't have a state education budget passed Some Lansing area schools. I see David Eggert, he's a Cranes reporter. He said that his children's school just sent an email out district-wide email saying that free universal lunches are going to be halted until they find out how much they're going to get and the education budget. House Republicans yesterday well, house Republicans, and Karen Whitsett yesterday, I think you're going to say House Republicans Passed a budget.
Speaker 4:Karen on the phone tells me you know there's still left, you know, points to negotiate. She says that's not the budget that will be passed. That's why I voted for it. Of course you know it needs to be passed by Senate Democrats and signed off by the governor. So she's right in that that version of the proposal will not be passed by Senate Democrats and signed off by the governor. So she's right in that that version of the proposal will not be passed.
Speaker 3:That's why she voted for it. It does not make any sense, but why do you vote for it?
Speaker 4:And she says that's all part of the negotiations, and so I guess it's the chess. The 4D chess is what's going on.
Speaker 3:Or 5D. I'm tired of the explanations I was writing about this and um this morning because it was so upsetting to me. Um, you stand for something or you fall for everything. What are you negotiating? What's on your side? When you're standing with Republicans, you are trying to leverage your role as a Democrat to move Democrats towards Republicans, or are you trying to vote with Republicans to move Republicans towards Democrats? And this hyper-polarized Lansing fight around basic issues, around the budget? It's a ridiculous stance. What does she stand for other than trying to block Democratic legislators?
Speaker 4:She says that she has things in there that I need. She did cite water shutoffs, forgotten harvest.
Speaker 3:I'm sorry. She said focus on Water shutoffs. This is the person who stopped the fight for affordable I mean water affordability and now she's put water shutoffs in this bill.
Speaker 4:I mean we're going to have to see, when it makes it on the other side, what makes it through. And she says that herself, karen Whitsett and Amos O'Neill are the only ones that have negotiated with Matt Hall, with Republicans, to be granted you know this earmarks within the budget proposal. So we'll see if that ends up being true.
Speaker 3:Well, it's not whether it ends up being true. It's whether or not that is a defensible tactic for somebody who has a track record of betraying people in the community that she serves. You cannot vote to defund arts and culture in the city of Detroit and call that tactical. You cannot vote to defund so many things. How many millions of dollars of funding did she support? Because she says she was negotiating something else? And who was she negotiating with? Is she a one-person party? And I'm actually not even wanting to get weighed down, because I think what people like Karen Witsit do is they keep on throwing out these explanations, trying to justify what they're doing, when anybody standing on the outside can see the impact of what you're doing is betrayal. And I'm still mad about what she did during the recess, where there were bills on the table that could have been passed and she could have been using her voice then to negotiate then. But what was her explanation in December for why she did not support water affordability?
Speaker 4:Well, it wasn't about water affordability for her, it was about the tipped wages issue.
Speaker 3:So she has a new explanation every time she shows up for why she's in a position to vote. Explanation every time she shows up for why she's in a position to vote. Now, water affordability is an issue, but water affordability was not there last December. She could have voted against tip wages last December and voted for water affordability, if that's where she stands, but what she did was she brought community violence intervention. She brought water affordability to a grinding halt, and now bringing these things up as though she can champion causes that she single-handedly destroyed doesn't work for me and I don't think it's going to work for District 7 voters.
Speaker 4:Well, Denzel McCampbell, the gloves are off. Karen sent me a long message about the criticism. Karen sent me a long message about the criticism. Yesterday, Denzel cited the light items within the budget proposal. Again, this is a proposal. It's not going to be signed by Governor Whitmer. However, within the proposal were cuts. House Republicans want to remove financial support from the Department of Civil Rights budget for the Arab American National Museum, the Charles H Wright Museum of African American History, the Holocaust Memorial Center in Farmington Hills. That's $1.5 million. Denzel yesterday on Twitter said my opponent just voted to defund the following museums and yeah, it's going to be hard. I don't think Karen is interested in defending herself.
Speaker 3:I don't know what she's interested in. I don't really care what Karen Whitsitt is interested in. I think we make politics personal when we ask people why do you support bad things? There are some things that are good and there's some things that are bad, and when it's bad on its face, I'm not interested. And I actually put in my little in my post this morning. Don't ask me because I don't know why, but it's like that and that's the way it is. You cannot ask me because I don't know why, but it's like that and that's the way it is. You cannot. It's kind of like when you have somebody who cheats on you, who tries to explain to you why they did it.
Speaker 3:I'm not interested in why you did what you did. You did it and what I'm interested in is what you did. I'm not interested in why you've chosen to affiliate yourself and go on press campaigns where you are advocating some of the same talking points as the Republican Party. What I'm interested in is the fact that you did these things and therefore you cannot and should not be allowed to represent District 7 and serve as a representative of city government. I think that she's dangerous and I think she needs to be voted out.
Speaker 3:I was watching the District 2 race as closely as I was watching the mayor's race during the primary votes, because it's that important to me that a person like her not sit on city council, not be allowed to advance city policy that's harmful to Detroiters and then make excuses to people behind the scenes. Go on public record with what you stand and your votes are what matters, not your conversation in between them to me. And yeah, so I'm sure she's going to defend herself. I hear that she's having a white party and you know white supremacy is something that she doesn't seem to disagree with, so I'm not surprised by that. But let's move on.
Speaker 4:She's certainly going to get the financial support from. You know, these corporate PACs.
Speaker 3:The corporate PACs didn't support her campaign.
Speaker 4:No they did not, but I mean they did in the fact of. That was the only support that she got. She had no individual contributions, they just were three PACs that gave her.
Speaker 3:How much?
Speaker 4:I think 23,000 in total. I think 22 to 23,000 was the final number. She said I can appreciate Denzel trying to make a name for himself and be relevant on the success God has blessed me to deliver. Oh my gosh, Please don't read this to me.
Speaker 3:I would never take a text from her and I don't really care. Honestly, you know, listen, there's different ways that people like that pay people. Sometimes they give money to your campaign, sometimes they offer you things off the record and in my opinion, there's a value that she can get. You know, sometimes you get a job when you leave a cushy job. All kinds of promises get made, but she's been affiliated with people who have been harmful Detroit residents longer than now and more than just this bill, and Denzel McCampbell is certainly not trying to be relevant. He raised four times more than four times more than she did without having the PACs that she had supporting her, the Republican PACs. So that's where I stand on that. I feel very strongly about, um, what?
Speaker 4:It's going to be interesting. I you know, I do wonder what it would look like. You know, if Karen does get in there, um, and I asked her on the phone this morning, you know, with a, with a Mary Sheffield as mayor, with a Solomon Kinloch as mayor, what would that look like? Um, with you on council? And she says she's not sure because she's not sure what direction Mary's going to go?
Speaker 4:Um, I think a lot of people are also wondering that some folks that um are interested in endorsing her. Uh, one being Gabby Santiago Romero, she told me. And Letitia Johnson uh told me here actually at ECN, um, when you guys had your guys' mayoral forum, she told me that she was, after the primary, likely to endorse a candidate. We haven't seen that yet. We didn't see that from Gabby. Gabby told me at the DCFC event a few weeks ago that she was planning to endorse a candidate.
Speaker 4:Because of how much Gabby and Mary sort of boost each other, um, I would assume that she's going to endorse Mary. And I asked her directly are you endorsing Mary? Um? And she said you know, we'll, we'll see. Um, I think that's really interesting. I wrote about this week sort of the different factions opposing factions of democratic identity and how that's playing out in Detroit. Mary Sheffield, of course, receiving the Duggan endorsement is interesting when I think about a person who received an endorsement from Mike Duggan last year, mary Waters. And it seems to have been a deal that, mary Waters, you know. You support my congressional campaign and I'll support your campaign for governor. I'm not sure if Mary knew that Duggan was going to leave the Democratic Party but she has been very complimentary.
Speaker 4:I don't know if she's come out with a formal endorsement of his governor's rural campaign yet, but Mary Waters is somebody that you know doesn't really stand to lose much if she is penalized by Curtis Hertel in the state Democratic Party in a way that Mary Sheffield, being much younger and perhaps has aspirations I'm not sure to you know, pursue higher office than Detroit mayor. If she were to do that as a Democrat, you know she better, in Curtis Rattel's mind right now she better not endorse Duggan for governor and she told us at the endorsement event. You know it's an important office and when the time is appropriate, you know I will, you know, consider that. You know I do wonder what her relationship, if any relationship, is with Jocelyn Benson. Jocelyn has been a resident here for however many long years she's been here. But it's just so interesting to me all of those sort of versions of the Democratic identity, obviously Duggan isn't a Democrat anymore, but he was for the past 40 years.
Speaker 3:I think that the Democratic Party is a party on its knees and I think that we have got to talk about politics, sometimes outside of some of these hyper-partisan conversations, especially on the left, because the Democratic Party is searching for an identity. Curtis Hurtel thinks maybe if I just punish people, I can punish people into alignment, and I think he's trying to play by a Republican playbook. But the reality is that a lot of people who used to consider themselves Democrats have been very disappointed in the party actions and I don't think that the Democratic Party has the power that they wanted to have in order to make those punishments matter. And you know that the mayoral race is a nonpartisan race and Mary Sheffield is running a nonpartisan campaign. All of the concept about endorsements and stuff like that between politicians a lot of times what they're trying to see is what can I get out of this person and how can I influence this person?
Speaker 3:I don't think that Gabby endorsing Mary Sheffield or even Letitia endorsing Mary Sheffield or even Letitia endorsing Mary Sheffield matters, not when she has the kind of, you know, advantage other people have. I don't think if Gabriela supported Kinloch it would matter that much either In fact, I can't imagine that happening or Letitia supporting Kinloch. I don't think it would really move the needle that much, because I think Mary's support is coming from people who are immune to those types of factors. I don't even know that Duggan's support was huge.
Speaker 3:It may be in terms of fundraising, but I think that his endorsements have cut both ways.
Speaker 3:He's had some success with his endorsements and some failure with his endorsements. With his endorsements and some failure with his endorsements. Moving forward, I would hope that, mary Sheffield everybody running for office would, you know, endorse the person I thought was best equipped to help run the state and also to protect relationships with the city of Detroit. And part of that calculus is going to be whether or not, you know, jocelyn Benson can win. I think the question is, you know, with Duggan in the race with a Republican you know Republicans all tend to stick together Will Duggan take more votes from the Republican or the Democrats? And I know that he's gotten more financial support from Republicans. But that's a question. Jocelyn Benson has her own issues and Curtis Ruttel has not addressed the issues where she settled a lawsuit for racism and she said well, I'm not admitting I did anything wrong, but she settled that lawsuit nonetheless and I think that in cities like Detroit that's going to really harm her and the Democratic Party needs to be prepared to deal with that.
Speaker 4:You don't think Hill Harper stumping for her is going to boost her in Detroit? That's what her campaign thinks.
Speaker 3:Well, he certainly did not. I like Hill Harper. I really do like Hill Harper. I think that Mike Duggan has more influence in Detroit than Hill Harper does.
Speaker 4:quite honestly, yeah, I'm not going to disagree with you.
Speaker 3:Duggan. I think Hill Harper could not really make an impactful Senate run. I think that we're going to talk about this anyway. When you are running for high office or any office and you're asking people to vote for you and allegations come out about you being racist, if you don't take that head on and you don asking people to vote for you and allegations come out about you being racist, if you don't take that head on and you don't defend yourself against those allegations, or if you can't defend yourself against those allegations, it's going to harm you. She's got to figure out a way to help people who already don't trust her, trust her and believe that she's a better choice than Duggan.
Speaker 3:Or what's going to happen? Is you're going to see Duggan getting a lot of the urban votes in southeastern Michigan from black people, and Jocelyn Harris would need Detroit voters in order to win at the state level? I think so that's my take on it. I think that the Democratic Party needs to be a little bit more intentional on how it advances candidates who make sense. I don't think that putting the Democrat seal of approval on Jocelyn Benson is going to help her. I'm disappointed to see Garland Gilchrist not gaining more ground, not taking advantage of some of these moments not being more visible? I'm not sure what his campaign strategy is, but I know he's running from far behind for governor and it would be interesting to see whether he has any real moves to make between now and next year when the election heats up.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I don't know. I don't know if he's going to, you know, be much on the attack against Benson, seeing that you know if he does lose in that primary. Or you know if he gets to a point where he says, you know I can't win, and then he falls in line. Obviously, politics are politics, but you probably don't want to ruffle the feathers there and I'm sure they don't have a. I mean, perhaps I'm wrong. I have no insight into the relationship between Garland Gilchrist and Jocelyn Benson, or if any relationship exists. I do wonder whether the story about that lawsuit settlement is going to sort of be carried by anyone, if anybody's going to put steam behind furthering that story well Duggan will.
Speaker 3:Duggan will, and certainly if she's running against John James. He will, because Duggan will, and certainly if she's running against John James he will.
Speaker 3:Because Duggan has no problem taking the gloves off. Neither does John James. I think you cannot run a campaign where you're unwilling to address issues that voters may have. I like Garland and he is one of the nicest people I've met. I don't know if that niceness will serve him unless he's willing to.
Speaker 3:Not just because listen, accusation of racism those aren't. That's not dirty politics. That speaks to. Do you want a person who discriminates against black people and has ritually done so in office, according to the accusations? Do you want that person to be governor of the state of Michigan? Of Michigan? It's a lot bigger than you know. Did you kill your dog? Kind of accusations. These are accusations that are relevant to Detroit voters. We have lived, we live under a racist president. Do we want a racist governor too? Do we have the right to know that our governor is not racist or to believe that our governor has learned from mistakes or whatever? I just think it's a big issue and I'm not encouraging anybody to run on that right. What are people running for in terms of their vision for the state of Michigan? We know that. You know Gretchen Whitmer's Fix the Damn Roads. That was her campaign slogan and we still remember it. What is Garland's? What is Jocelyn's? Stand tall is Garland's. What is Jocelyn?
Speaker 4:Stand tall is Garland's Okay.
Speaker 3:Stand tall. Are you kidding me? I know that's his thing. I know it is, I know. And if I was 6'11" that might be my thing too. But the reality is that is not a political. You know that's not politically savvy?
Speaker 4:No, that is not.
Speaker 3:I hope I'm laughing know, I know, I know that.
Speaker 4:I love to stand tall. I don't know what Jocelyn Benson's thing is. She's a purposeful warrior. That was the name of her book. I'm not sure you know she's a defender of democracy. I know that's what Time Magazine said and I do know that if I was Jocelyn Benson I would tattoo on my face I fixed the damn secretary of state branches and I modernized the damn election system. I would say that until everyone is tired of hearing me say it, I would say I modernized your election system. We had the most voters ever and I.
Speaker 4:You used to have to wait five hours to do anything at the secretary of state. You don't even remember you guys sitting back there Don't even remember when I was 16 years old I got my driver's license. In what year would have that have been? I don't even know, but Ruth Johnson was the secretary of state and I sat there in Midland Michigan. So the population of the city that I'm in is 40,000. There's nobody that lives here. Why is the secretary of state taking me three and a half hours? I have? There's nobody that lives here. Why is the Secretary of State taking me three and a half hours to have to sit in here? Now you set an appointment. You might walk in there and not realize that you have to set an appointment and might have to wait for the appointment, but you set an appointment. Usually there's nobody even in there anymore.
Speaker 3:There was a period of time when the appointment system was not working really well.
Speaker 4:It was bad, yeah, but that was early on, and now it's better.
Speaker 3:It's better, but I think, for those of us who remember when it was bad, those are not— it's so much better.
Speaker 4:And why does she not just say this, like hammer it every time, like that's my thing, I fixed that, I fixed that, I fixed that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, efficiency is one thing.
Speaker 4:She doesn't talk about that.
Speaker 3:She does talk about efficiency, but the governor has to be more than efficient. What is the governor's vision for governing this state and take positions right now? One of the challenges is that when you work for an incumbent, you don't want to criticize the incumbent. Garland, for example, is Lieutenant Governor and he is running for a seat not against Governor Whitmer but he needs to understand also that he needs to differentiate himself from her Because, to the extent he inherits some of the criticism of things like the Michigan Economic Development Corporation and how they spent money helping people, some of the dark money that Mike Duggan is surprisingly now opposed to in economic development, I remember when he said that Michigan was an embarrassment to the nation in terms of our job creation or whatever it is.
Speaker 4:He's got to be willing to critique what is in order to get some people and he's broken with the governor on many issues you know, foremost being her sort of posture toward Donald Trump. Right, garland is taking a much more stern, aggressive approach toward Donald Trump's actions, while Whitmer is being sort of you know milquetoast and trying to buddy up with him. He also has said that you know a special election should be called in Midland Saginaw Bay City in the state Senate district up there.
Speaker 3:That's absolutely unconscionable.
Speaker 4:I mean you're paying. You're paying taxes, that a special election has not been called.
Speaker 1:And you don't have representation.
Speaker 3:There's a reason why, but it is bad governance and that will harm whoever.
Speaker 4:It's bad for Democrats because when a Republican campaign gets to, when they finally do the election, the Republican candidate is going to have months of what you know. They didn't want me to run.
Speaker 3:They didn't want me to run. Look, you know, let's talk about how long have people from that district not had elected representation? How long has it been? I don't know, you tell me it's been quite a while it's been quite a while, and the governor has the sole authority to call in a special election, and she has not, and so that's going to be harmful to the Democrats down the road. I hope that she has a good explanation for why she has not.
Speaker 4:It's been since, I think, February. It's been at least six months.
Speaker 3:It's been at least six months.
Speaker 4:It's been vacant since January 3rd.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I thought it was longer than that.
Speaker 4:That's because Kristen McDonald Rivett she's from Bay City, she got elected in Congress and In what party? She's a Democrat.
Speaker 3:So Democrats vacated her seat and the governor could appoint or allow for a special election where it's possible. Another Democratic voice could show up representing that area, and chose not to.
Speaker 4:But the reason is, I guess the reason that critics and commenters assume is that Whitmer and the state parties are nervous that a Republican will end up getting elected in that seat, where a Democrat once was. Mcdonnell Rivet, of course, won that seat. It's a hot and contested seat where Republicans usually thrive.
Speaker 3:So either we believe in democracy or we don't.
Speaker 1:Either voters have the right to vote or they don't.
Speaker 3:Well, no, the Republicans don't have the right to say this right, but I do.
Speaker 4:It makes it very easy after you know Democrats have been telling them that.
Speaker 3:Democrats have been telling them this and they believe in the right to vote when they think they might benefit, but they don't really believe in the right to vote as a standard of American practice and we know that because of gerrymandering and other works, other things they do to tinker with elections. At any rate, we're going to take a break and when we come back we're going to talk about the Money Out of Politics campaign, which I'm really excited to talk about.
Speaker 5:Money Out of Politics campaign, which I'm really excited to talk about also happening at the state level.
Speaker 2:Have you ever dreamed of being on the airwaves? Well, the Authentically Detroit Podcast Network is here to make those dreams come true. Formerly known as the Deep Network and located inside the Stoudemire, the Authentically Detroit Podcast Network offers studio space and production staff. To help get your idea off of the ground, just visit authenticallydetcom and send a request through the contact page.
Speaker 3:Okay, and this is a story that I'm bringing to you from Bridge, michigan. Money Out of Politics. This is not the Money Out of Politics that I was looking for.
Speaker 4:Oh here it is, there you go.
Speaker 3:Okay, michigan Advance, I'm sorry.
Speaker 3:A ballot initiative seeks to ban political contributions from monopoly corporations like utilities, or from regulated utilities.
Speaker 3:A ballot initiative is in the works to ban corporations with large existing or pending government contracts from making political contributions to candidates for office and sitting lawmakers, taking back our power Coalition backing this initiative announced Monday its plan to get language approved for signature collection, and that language was just approved, right, yes, and so this means two things. Number one, if you have a large or pending government contract, you cannot make political contributions to Kansas for Office and, for example, eastside Community Network has large governmental contracts but because we're a nonprofit organization, we're already banned from political speech. But this means that private corporations that have that also cannot make contributions, which is sort of like a form of bribery or something that's unseemly. But it also means that regulated utilities that function as monopolies, like DTE Energy and Consumers Energy and Blue Cross, blue Shield of Michigan, also cannot make campaign contributions, and that, quite frankly, is a huge development. If it happens, the first ballot initiative is a, I'm sorry, invest in Michigan Kids is a constitutional amendment. I believe this is a law that they are seeking to impose.
Speaker 4:So the opposite. So this one? Oh no, no, you're absolutely correct. Yes, yes, this one is an initiative, the other one is a constitutional amendment and this one you know a bunch of different local groups, statewide groups, emergent Justice, michigan Environmental Justice Coalition, league of Conservation Voters, michigan United Action, moses Action Progress Michigan organizations that you guys have heard before like Voters, not Politicians. In June, earlier this summer, in a press call, launched the effort and said that the ballot proposal isn't a cure-all for every campaign finance issue but it is a major step forward. They point to states like Connecticut, hawaii, new Jersey and Georgia, and federal agencies like the SEC have banned political spending by utility companies and corporations that do business with governments. Do business with governments. Business leaders at the chamber. The other perspective of this sort of Republican pro-corporate perspective free speech laws that individuals are as corporations.
Speaker 3:I run a nonprofit and my nonprofit doesn't have free speech rights when the chamber and Eastside Community Network is a member of the Detroit Regional Chamber. When they fight for my speech, we can have that conversation, because the reality is they're willing to suppress speech in some instances, depending on you know whose speech you're trying to suppress. We talk about free speech, and some of the same people are okay with removing information from museums and books from libraries, and you know even the way that we speak in our nonprofit world, punish us by removing our access to grants. But that's free speech too, right? There are people who are being arrested for speaking out against the war, not the war, the atrocities and the genocide in Gaza.
Speaker 3:So free speech is one of those things, again, that receives selector support. We'll just say from the right, what they really want to do is give power to the speech of corporations that exceeds the power of all other people, and that happens. That's part of the problem with our democracy. The challenge is, though, the significance of this Right now. Michiganders, and certainly in Detroit, we have some of the highest energy rates in the nation and some of the least affordable energy in the nation. I mean some of the least reliable energy in the nation.
Speaker 4:It goes out all the time.
Speaker 3:It goes out all the time. It stays out for long periods of time and rate hikes keep getting approved.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and it's really crazy. I mean, people's DTE bills now are just something like and I say you know, the bills are getting crazy. I hear what people are paying for their car insurance and it's like $350 a month for car insurance. That's more than the car note for some people. I mean, how are people affording this?
Speaker 3:Well, the concern is never how are poor people affording this? The concern is always what's in the best interest of wealthy people. So let's go back to DTE, and I don't want to get these dates right, but I get them wrong, but sometimes I do, and I apologize in advance if I get this wrong. I want to say sometime around October of 2023, they distributed over $700 million to shareholders that spring. The following spring, they requested a rate hike for $432, something like that million dollars. That would constitute $432 million to carry out their required responsibilities. Well, if you needed that money, why did you distribute it to shareholders? Why would you distribute money to shareholders, which are people who own stocks and bonds, who are investors, and then put the burden of those distributions on the back of rate payers, who are already paying too much money? It doesn't make sense. And so I did talk to somebody who worked for DTE and they said well, you know, those are retirement funds and these are other people who invest. We know that the biggest investors are not retirees. The biggest investors are actually, you know, wealthy people who play the stock market and have large investments, and this is a way for them to continue growing their wealth. We know that wealthy people who sit on these boards like DTE, demand that they pay out large numbers to the shareholders. Whenever you are a publicly traded monopoly, then your shareholders have the power to make demands and then expect government to come bail you out by increasing the rates. The other issue with DTE is that DTE has been pushing our legislators and getting our legislators to oppose community solar.
Speaker 3:Detroit has said. The city government has said we have community solar and we don't. Community solar is when you can build solar in a community and the solar power is shared among people who are living in unaffiliated residences. As a way of providing a reliable source of energy during blackouts and brownouts and also a way of reducing energy bills, it seems reasonable that community solar should be allowed in low-income communities like ours. What the mayor did was he put solar inside of communities and called it community solar.
Speaker 3:But the solar that's in these neighborhoods is used to power Detroit buildings owned by the city of Detroit, so it does not really cut the energy rates of people who live nearby. They don't benefit it by the city of Detroit. So it does not really cut the energy rates of people who live nearby. They don't benefit. It cuts the rates of the city of Detroit and this is well. They were passing it down to the taxpayers or whatever, but it's this indirect benefit. We need community solar in a city where we have unreliable service that's unaffordable. Community solar would make service more reliable and affordable. But until we get money out of politics, until we're able to challenge DTE and say you can't provide all of this money to folks, they're going to continue to have the power to sway politicians to protect their interests against the interests of the people who are actually voting them into office. So, newsflash, I'm also a disclaimer. I'm on the board of Voters, not Politicians, and so I am part of a campaign individually to help move this process forward.
Speaker 4:And it has been moving forward to the point where they are now able to collect signatures. I'm not sure. I think Sean McBriarty he is of Clean Water Action, one of the coalition partners. He told me that after Labor Day they're going to start, they're going to launch their big ballot signature drive effort. They need to collect 356,958 signatures within 180 days.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and this is going to be done by volunteers, and that's the other exciting thing, and I'm happy to be part of these volunteer voter ballot initiatives. The thing to keep in mind, though, is that there are rules governing how we collect signatures, and so, in the interim, what we're doing is we're going to be producing the ballots, we're going to be training collectors and making sure that we adhere to these laws, because we know there are going to be court challenges and there's going to be people trying to throw off various signatures, and so, even though that's the number of signatures we have to collect, we need to collect more, because there's going to be errors Between now and Labor Day it's not a long time. There's going to be an effort to make sure people are prepped and ready to go.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and there's going to be a lot spent against this effort. Obviously DTE, consumers Energy. They like participating in our political process because they reap massive rewards. They have massive sway in Lansing. In a statement, consumers Energy said the ballot proposal would seek over 200 state contractors and pick winners and losers and who gets to participate in the political process. Consumers Energy and DTE have quite certainly been winners in the last 20 years of Michigan's political process. They have not lost at many junctures. The Michigan Public Service Commission exists to keep these utility companies in check and they don't do that. Craig Mauger is a reporter at the Detroit News. He attempted to talk to just one of the members after a member was ousted. Critics of DTE believe that the member was ousted because they were a critic of DTE. And guess who is now going to take that member's place? Shakila Myers. Shakila.
Speaker 3:It was Joe Tate's chief of staff.
Speaker 4:Yes, she was, and we know that Joe Tate is very friendly with the folks that lobby for DTE.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, you know, and that really helped him politically. His inability to effectively represent the people who elected him to office really killed his political life. Who elected him to office really killed his political life. I think he got this position of you know over the House of Representatives, the State House of Representatives, and he actually just squandered the opportunity to actually lead. He got paid off and so hopefully he will enjoy a very fruitful private sector career, but his political life has been harmed by that. And Shaquilla is now representing them, and isn't she? I get these things confused. Isn't she also going to Eagle, Going to be?
Speaker 4:I'm not sure I know that she was appointed last month to the Michigan Public Service Commission by the governor and her term does not end until 2031. My gosh, yeah, and she's very nice. She was actually in the Whitmer book. Whitmer name dropped her as her sort of you know Detroit person. That showed her how black people love her.
Speaker 3:Oh well, that's great. Yeah, I'm not worried about people being nice. I have. I like for my friends to be nice, and certainly my family members. I like for them to be nice. But when I elect people or vote for people, I want people to be effective, I want people to stand for something. Nice people.
Speaker 3:The problem that we have is, we believe, only mean people do things right. A lot of people will say, listen, I've met, you know, some of these most staunch, racist Republicans and they're very nice to me, they're nice, they're friendly. I sat next to somebody who ran for public office and won I'm not going to mention that person's name A very nice and friendly person. And if I were voting her into a club, I don't really belong to clubs, but if I belong to a club and I had membership responsibilities, nice would matter.
Speaker 3:We are electing politicians and you know, quite frankly, the political establishment that really influences so much of what we see in the city of Detroit and at the state of Michigan, whether it is representing black people, indians, asians, native Americans, political establishment. People have a way of protecting the political establishment and the political establishment interest as opposed to the interest of people who sit outside the political establishment and we get that confused. Sometimes we show a black face and this is like a nice person Maybe they pledged the same sorority or went to the same college and therefore we assume this person is aligned with our interests and our needs, and that's just not true. I think we have to think more critically than that, and I do believe young voters are thinking more critically than that. I want to take a break now and then come back and we're going to talk about some key local politics. We've already talked about District 2. But there's some stuff- District 7.
Speaker 3:District 7,. Thank you.
Speaker 4:District 2 is Roy and Angela Whitfield I know, I know, I know.
Speaker 3:Thank you for reminding me. Yes, we talked about District 7, but I want to talk about District 5, and then we're going to talk about the 13th Congressional District when we come back.
Speaker 2:Interested in renting space for corporate events, meetings, conferences, social events or resource fairs. The MassDetroit Small Business Hub is a 6,000 square feet space available for members, residents and businesses and organizations and organizations. To learn more about rental options at Mass Detroit, contact Nicole Perry at nperry at ecn-detroitorg or 313-313-3133. 331-3485.
Speaker 3:Okay, so District 5. Let's talk about District 5. You got some juice to stop yeah we got some new news.
Speaker 4:Finally, we have some reporting from the Detroit News. They are, you know, the paper of record in the city of Detroit and the state of Michigan. Yet they didn't do any city council coverage for the council races in the the city of Detroit and the state of Michigan. Yet they didn't do any council city council coverage for the council races in the largest city of the state. Uh, until now, because it got so juicy and I was talking to Lewis Aguilar. He's one of the um authors of this report.
Speaker 4:Um, there's another journalist who I do not know and snabs oh, I do know, anne Snabes. Oh, I do know Anne. I just met her. Actually, I've met her several times. She's quite nice as well, but she covers Macomb County. She does not cover the city of Detroit, but she did a very good job doing the story. I do not like the framing Questionable past of candidates hang over a key Detroit city council race when one candidate's questionable past is like domestic violence charges and then one's questionable past is eviction from apartment. Not sure those are the same things. However, we've talked about it on this podcast. I've talked about it on various other podcasts. Um, the Indian village homeowners association, historic Indian Village Association is involved in a legal battle with Renata Miller over a disagreement.
Speaker 3:I think several disagreements.
Speaker 4:Yes, there was an Airbnb being utilized by a neighbor out of his garage. That is illegal. But there are several other allegations made by these Indian Village homeowners against Renata Miller. As you guys can imagine, this is a group of mostly white wealthy non-Detroiters mostly.
Speaker 3:Well, I mean, they are Detroiters right. Yes, they are nowDetroiters mostly. Well, I mean they are Detroiters right.
Speaker 4:Well, now they yes, they are now they live here, but perhaps they are not from here, as Renata Miller feels like she is, and so, you know, when I talk about these issues with her, it is. You know, that's the framing of it.
Speaker 3:Well, you know, and that's unfortunate framing yeah, because if I own a home in Detroit, then me.
Speaker 4:Yeah, because if I own a home in Detroit, then I'm a Detroiter and so, um, you know new Detroiters, we can say maybe. So Renata um has been backed by the UAW and several others. She's been endorsed, I think, by Scott Benson and um a number of other. Mary Waters endorsed Renata Miller. Yeah, uaw Region 1 and 1A, afscme, michigan Council 25.
Speaker 4:Black Slate the original East Side Slate and her campaign website does note Renata has faced personal adversity, including both health and financial. Renata came back. She had a health scare a number of years ago in which she almost lost her ability to walk. She tells me she almost lost her leg and she powered through and she thanks God every day for that. And she, I think, uses a lot of her motivation to be an effective campaigner, in which I saw her be the. I mean she had the best campaign out of any D5 candidate, right?
Speaker 4:I don't know if she raised the most money. I think maybe George Adams might have raised more. I might be getting that wrong, so don't quote me there but it wasn't the money, it was that she put her boot to the ground and shook hands, met people and got her yard sign in everybody's yard Willie Burton, kind of the same thing, you know he put his head down and got his name out there. Obviously he's been on the ballot before so it's a little bit easier for him. But Renato was the top vote getter. Mario Moro in this. He's a longtime political consultant in this. In this story he says both candidates have questionable past and you'll hear you know about mario moro, mario moro has a questionable past and we talked about.
Speaker 3:Seriously, look into him. He's got like drunk driving on his record when he was on the school board for another state in Michigan. Using terms like questionable past to describe people who have you know, I don't know. I just think how does he even have?
Speaker 4:And in the quote part of Willie Burden's is you know, getting arrested at a meeting. We all watch that happen. I mean it's on video, you can go watch him getting arrested. I don't think any part of that arrest was like all that egregious to you.
Speaker 4:I mean, I think that the, I think that he was being combative and it was a verbal argument that went south because the person that had the authority to remove him used it. Yes, I mean, I think that's what happened. I'm not sure that it was a indictment on his character and erratic behavior.
Speaker 3:Again, I just don't think that Mario Moro has the. I don't even know why people keep on asking these same people. They ask the same people I just talked to. Adolph Mongo the other day.
Speaker 4:It's because he says funny stuff and it's like, yeah, it's kind of funny. I guess it's because he's they're available. I mean, they answer the phone, and that's the typical part of being a reporter is you need to have somebody that is available to answer.
Speaker 3:There are many people who are available to answer the phone. The reality is that they have positioned themselves as spokespersons for black Detroiters.
Speaker 4:And a lot of times they get it wrong. A lot of times they're bringing bias to the table and 0% of the times are black Detroiters or black people anywhere in the Detroit News or Detroit Free Press covering these local Detroit issues. There are no black reporters that are currently covering the city of Detroit for the Detroit News or Detroit Free Press. That is a fact. I think that is a very unfortunate one.
Speaker 3:It is an unfortunate fact, but I think it's also unfortunate that we have a way of assigning. These are the spokespeople for a population of over 600,000 people. Certainly, there should be more than one voice. Who are the young people?
Speaker 4:I mean, I'm not saying I talk to them. I talk to Kamau Clark all the time, exactly Jadante Smith, jawan Howard, you're telling me that Jawan Howard and Kamau Clark won't answer the phone.
Speaker 3:Of course they will, but the reality is their phones aren't ringing.
Speaker 4:Sidney Calloway.
Speaker 3:That's the reason we need to have some turnover in some of these.
Speaker 4:Ariel Foster Exactly, I could go on and on about the young people that I talk to that are informed. Paul Jones.
Speaker 3:That's why you are a valued asset among political journalists, because young people trust that you are talking to people who relate to them, and I know about that because I'm a mother of young people who were like have you read Sam Robinson? And that's. I've met you before then. But they were really excited about the fact that you were saying things nobody else was saying and referencing sources nobody else did so. Hopefully, when you need to talk to somebody, it won't be then, but let's talk about this a little bit more deeply and I'm going to go on to, you know, too deep a cliff, talking about the lack of diversity in political consultants. What's going on with Renata? What are the criticisms?
Speaker 4:So you know, I think a lot of her biggest critics would agree with me in saying that a lot of her biggest weaknesses are her strengths. I mean, you know fiery she is, you know very explicitly pro worker. I think you know, if you're not a fan of the UAW Sean Fain style of politics then you probably won't be a fan of Renata Miller. Of course people try to unfairly connect what her daughter does on that reality TV show Baddies to how she might be as a council member. I think that is completely unfair. I agree.
Speaker 4:How much of that is reality or just scripted, whatever? On that zeus network show, uh, laurel plumber is the ceo and founder of the zeus network. Uh, I believe you know he has property in either gross point or, uh, in detroit, in the Boston Edison neighborhood and they had a season of baddies. In Detroit they had auditions at the Huntington Place and it was all over my social media for a long time. You guys remember when they went to Franklin Cider Mill no, they're like. No, they don't remember that. Well, I do because I'm so on social media and they turned up, they got, you know, all the kids and the families were watching them fight each other at franklin cider mill.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they fought at the at the cider mill but you know that's not the fight we care about the fight that we care about is a 2004 jury um guilt guilty verdict by jury of assault um.
Speaker 3:She was not guilty of assault with a dangerous weapon, but she was not guilty of assault with a dangerous weapon, but she was found guilty of domestic violence a misdemeanor charge in a case stemming from a confrontation with a married man she had an affair with. The incident with her former partner happened outside his home in Oak Park on August 25th 2003. Two things Number one, I don't know that he was harmed physically, and so that would be different than the domestic violence conviction of Solomon Kinloch, whose ex-spouse did suffer some physical damage. However, it is still a conviction, for domestic violence, and domestic violence should never be minimized or trivialized or justified. Right, it's wrong. It is wrong to be violent against any human being, I believe, whether it's a child or an adult. I believe that excessive violence is verbal violence. All of those things are problematic, but she was convicted of this and I don't think, as you were alluding to, that conviction is comparable to.
Speaker 4:An eviction.
Speaker 3:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 4:What are you saying?
Speaker 3:Well, no, I mean to Willie Burton's arrest because, of public protest. He was protesting and I think that those are separate kinds of things. One is a questionable character issue and the other one is really a protest issue and I think a lot of us can agree that the Detroit Police Commission has problems and does not do things the right way in a lot of instances.
Speaker 4:And I mean again with you, know Burton, you know it's hard for me to get a hold of him, but he responded to Louis Aguilar. Renata did not respond to this story. I want all candidates and electeds to start responding to media when they're going to do a big story like this on you, because you lose the ability to control your own narrative. Now you have to go, you know, on the defensive after the fact, instead of being able to, as this all first comes out. Let the record show, you know, up against whatever it is, that the news reporters are going to write. A lot of electeds that I talk to do feel like news reporters are out to get them. And yeah, that is true that a lot of news reporters are, you know, looking for the salacious. Oh, how can I make these people look stupid? You know that's not the type of people that you should talk to. Usually those people work for TV news stations Not all of the TV news people, but certainly Malachi Barrett and Sam Robinson are not trying to get anyone.
Speaker 4:That is not the point of what we do and I want to reiterate that. Malachi Barrett and Sam Robinson I can't speak for everybody, but I do know there's a few reporters in the city of Detroit. You know Dana Afana, anyone you know over at the Outlier crew. Yeah, they're not trying to get anybody. There are reporters that are actually trying to get people, and for good reason, right, that's their whole purpose and job.
Speaker 4:But I just I cringe when it's all here and this is something that I didn't even. You know, I didn't do my due diligence to look this up. I didn't know about the domestic violence case until I read this in Louis Aguilar's story. I had spoken to a number of historic Indian Village Association homeowners and residents in that area that had raised concerns and I will tell you guys, just kind of to take you behind the scenes of like, what prompts me to report on these issues or not. You know we knew these. This would come out if she made it past the primary. I don't think if we would report on this. I've heard a lot of people say why wasn't this a story before the primary?
Speaker 4:you know it could have been, but you know it's a very laborious thing to do while there's an election going on where you have seven different council districts that you're trying to inform people on, and a mayor's race, Um, and so it's kind of a time um, you know, do I take spend days, two days on this story that this person might not even get past the primary, so that's why I didn't see anything about it before that.
Speaker 3:We're not electing saints, we're not electing friends, we're not electing gods. We're electing human beings.
Speaker 4:Right and people make mistakes. What we want?
Speaker 3:to know is that the mistakes that people make. When they make mistakes, they're accountable for them. Now, one of the other things that is mentioned is some evidence of financial instability, whether it is evictions or foreclosures and things like that, and city council does not control the city of Detroit purse. City council votes on a budget. I think it's important to understand that people who are facing financial challenges sometimes end up in situations where they lose their housing. It is up to us to decide whether or not we think the candidates have enough personal stability to act on behalf of citizens.
Speaker 3:I will say that the one risk factor is that when people are financially unstable, sometimes that means that they are vulnerable to bribery or other types of you know gifts, because, when you know, certainly the people who are trying to influence the votes are doing record searches and doing all of this information, and so we want to make sure that, as we're electing candidates, that we're looking at their integrity in office. There are some allegations against Renata Miller about a lack of transparency and perhaps allegations and suggestions that she abused her power while overseeing the Indian Village Neighborhood Association. That can and should be considered by voters, but not in a vacuum. You have to look at what a person has done in their entirety. Somebody can bring accusations, but do they bring evidence and have those charges been successfully fought in court?
Speaker 4:And you know, talking about evidence, there is also more on Renata Miller. Some of the and part of the Historic Indian Village Association allegations are that she was homophobic and that she uh sort of created a hostile environment to um LGBTQ potential members. I've seen the Facebook posts dating back to 2014, where Miller speaks out against same sex marriage on her Facebook page. Uh, the posts are all still on her Facebook page.
Speaker 3:Oh, thank you, that's. That's significant because bigotry and the question is can you represent a community if you have bigoted opinions about people? Whatever those opinions are, I think bigotry is a problem. It's one thing to have personal feelings or religious convictions, I suppose, but when those convictions lead you to make bigoted statements and engage in bigoted behavior, I can understand why within the Indian Village Association that would be a problem, because I know of some same-sex couples who live in Indian.
Speaker 4:Village. Yeah sure, she says in one post I will not celebrate or praise anyone who promotes homosexual activity. The world insists on ramming lesbian and gay relations down our throats. It does not matter what God we serve, she says, and so you know there's a lot of those type of posts.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean. Thank you for letting me know that I was not aware of that. That's certainly a problem. You know, just the other day, snoop Dogg, a man who bragged about revolutionizing porn.
Speaker 1:I was surprised by that Snoop.
Speaker 3:Dogg's doggy style. Well, I'm not surprised by it. I think that he is.
Speaker 4:How many gay people do you think Snoop Dogg has, you know, had to deal with and done business with?
Speaker 3:How many I?
Speaker 4:just say why is he saying?
Speaker 3:this now how much women on women's sex is promoted through his pornography.
Speaker 4:Has he actively participated in? Probably yes, exactly.
Speaker 3:So for him to make those statements, I swear. I was like, really, sir, I'm already done with you, Now I'm even more done with you. I could go on about Snoop, because I mean, listen, there's no song that used to get me going more than gin and juice. I am such a long Snoop fan, despite his horrible music and lyrics. I just like the sound of his music and his style.
Speaker 4:Yeah, he's talented.
Speaker 3:He's talented.
Speaker 4:He's been talented for a long time. He's still doing those little verses on people's albums and stuff.
Speaker 3:But you know I was never really big on some of the artists. I was never an R Kelly fan, so it, you know I was never like really big on some of the artists, like I was never a real R Kelly fan, so it doesn't hurt me where I live, but Snoop, yes, snoop, stop this Bigotry is not cool, especially after you performed for the inauguration. So you are back to being canceled in my book.
Speaker 4:Yeah, Well, I agree, I will come down and give a rare opinion that I you know I don't like that either. Man who cares what people are doing. Man Like not everybody's a Christian, so if they're not a Christian are they going to hell to you, like man who cares.
Speaker 3:Stop. But if a pastor does it exact same thing, they'd be like well, he's only human. So it's also, you know, ranking among Christians where certain Christians get off the hook.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I'm done with the being mean to gay people and all that kind of stuff. It's just ridiculous at this point Guys like what are you? Are you tormented in the inside of your mind? Are you gay? I mean, that's really what it comes to. What is going on?
Speaker 3:I mean it's beyond being ridiculous, it's harmful.
Speaker 4:People are killed. It's a self-hating thing.
Speaker 3:It is, it's self-hating, and it's also the prelude and pretext for violence, violence against children. I don't know if I mentioned this, but this has never not sat with me. When my son was in seventh grade, sometime before school started in the summer, he told me he was afraid to go back to his elementary, his middle school, because people threatened to kill him, because they took a picture and they saw in this picture he was looking at another guy and this is before he was out, before he had girlfriends, before he was out. He was fearful for his life when he was 12 years old, not because of what he was doing, but because people didn't like the way he looked at somebody. I take that very seriously.
Speaker 3:Homophobia kills, and it not only kills because other people do things, but it causes people to want to die or believe they're going to die, believe they're going to burn in hell. And who are we to judge somebody and decide that their life isn't worth it? So I take a strong stand on that, as I do against misogyny and racism. It's wrong and it's harmful. I did not know that about her. That's the questionable past. I don't know.
Speaker 4:Well, they put it really down there in the story because obviously that's not what the Detroit News readers care about. They care more about the fact that you know she had to, you know his back on her on her property taxes and you know owed this much money and delinquent on this and that and blah, blah, blah. That's what they care about. You know we could do that story on a lot of these candidates and a lot of these elected officials. You know, if you guys really wanted want me to do it, I'll do it.
Speaker 3:Well, I mean, I don't want you to do it, but when it comes up and when you know that there are bigoted, harmful things that people have done, we should talk about them. I'm not trying to do a character analysis of everybody, because we all have flaws. I will say the funniest thing in social media to me is this um, sly thing or what I think the Kenlock campaign thinks is sly by pointing out that in 2010, 11, 12, something like that Mary Sheffield was a co-pastor of her father's church. I think it's 2025 now and she has been on city council since 2013 or 2014,. But in several years before that she was announced as co-pastor. And so they say well, who's going to win? It will be the pastor or the co-pastor, but y'all didn't know she was a pastor, and I think that's so funny on so many levels. It's like you are really getting desperate now.
Speaker 4:Right, yeah, I mean it is quite common for people that are not active pastoral, you know, duty people to be ordained and to go through that ministry to be ordained. I know many people who are ordained as a minister and are not actively a pastor but do preach when invited to at churches.
Speaker 3:I absolutely do have good friends who do.
Speaker 4:This is much different than running a church and pastoring a Sunday afternoon.
Speaker 3:So imagine Mary Sheffield ran for mayor and said she had executive experience because she co-pastored this church. The same people who are trying to imply that she's doing the same thing as Kenlock would be laughing at her, saying that's not real executive experience, because being a co-pastor in the way that she's ordained is not real executive experience I will say I do think part of the um, part of that sentiment is the idea that there's something just morally corrupt with that church, with Triumph Church.
Speaker 4:It's been labeled a megachurch and so a lot of people that aren't familiar with Triumph think oh, what is happening there? Is it some evangelical, anti-gay cult? And it's not.
Speaker 3:But it does have on its website anti-gay verbiage, but the reason that people are opposed to some people are opposed to Kenlock being mayor is not because he's Christian. This idea that we don't like Christians, or not even because he's a pastor, is because he's not willing to step down from being a pastor to run the city, right, yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, I think you're right. I think, going back, the anti-gay language that's on the website is that they don't they. They, you know, only recognize men. Uh, you know, say, uh, two sex marriages. They will not do same sex marriages within um the church. When we ask Kinloch, you know if you could change that, why don't you change that? And he says, you know, if I could, I would. Um, you know, there's this implication that donors, that the top donors at Triumph, are the ones that are on their executive committee or the board, the people that determine what is what their values and what is on the website. You know it is. It comes back to the fact that it is Kinloch's church. He could also marry gay couples at City Hall or elsewhere, I guess he says that, but he also says.
Speaker 3:this is what it says we believe that God wonderfully and immutably creates each person as male or female, and that those two distinct, complementary genders together reflect the image and nature of God. We believe that God created marriage to be exclusively the union of one man and one woman, and that intimate sexual activity is to occur exclusively within that union. So, number one for people who support LGBT community we know that there are transgender people that were created by God as well. We know that there are some people who are born with two genders, physically with two genders, and so this idea that everybody breaks down into two genders is a big part of what the oppression looks like under a Trump administration, where some people are saying we're not anti-gay, we're anti-transgender.
Speaker 4:all of this getting men out of girls' sports and I think that has a life at Triumph. I think the people that are at Triumph and the leaders there would. As a whole, that would be reflective of their thinking of yeah, they're not anti-gay. We love and know gay people. Gay people attend our church and our members and our leaders. I don't think there are transgender people that are visible that are members of the church and if there are, perhaps there are, and I'm absolutely wrong.
Speaker 3:But do they even feel welcome there, right?
Speaker 4:I don't know if they're in leadership positions, or if they are, I don't think a lot of you know transgender women are in church.
Speaker 3:And transgender women are still being killed. Black transgender women are being killed more often than most other people. I mean, the higher the percentage of them being killed is so high, and I think that it's important that we acknowledge that.
Speaker 4:I will say though yeah, acknowledge that. I will say though, yeah, it is important that we acknowledge that.
Speaker 3:I don't need to know what your thoughts are about being, about gay marriage. I don't need to know your thoughts about gay couples or I would expect you to not have posted on Facebook.
Speaker 4:you know over the last 10 years about why they're not right and I would expect you. I hate that for her.
Speaker 3:I would, I would expect you to reword whatever it is on Facebook or take it off the website. It sits on the website for a reason and it's attractive to a certain type of person. You can't claim this is my church and I'm in charge, and also this is not my church and I have nothing to do with the language here. But let's talk about something else before we go. It's just one more thing you had and exclusive for us. I wanted to save the best for last.
Speaker 4:Yes, we do. Let's talk about the 13th district and let's talk about the fact that the field is not set. Donovan McKinney, adam Ollier, will not be the only Democrats, along with Tree Tanner, that you see on your August primary ballot. We don't know how exactly it's going to shake up yet. There is so much time to go, but we have good reason that you know. And who do you think we could be talking about? I think there's somebody that ran for Congress a year ago who was endorsed by Mike Duggan. That's Mary Waters. She ran against Shree and got a Duggan endorsement. Could she being the top vote getter in the city of Detroit primary election this past?
Speaker 3:August yes for city council.
Speaker 4:She was the top vote getter of all the candidates.
Speaker 3:She was not even near the top the last time she ran for 13th in congressional district.
Speaker 4:I think she's probably looking at that and saying you know, I'm pretty popular in Detroit, and so I think you could see a scenario in which Mary gets into that race and then Adam and Donovan have to decide amongst themselves. Are we going to allow us to be split up again?
Speaker 3:I don't think that she's demonstrated the ability to run outside of Detroit. First of all and the 13th Congressional District is no longer just Detroit you have to have a candidate who can run outside of Detroit. She has not demonstrated her ability to run outside of Detroit. Actually, adam Ollier has demonstrated greater strength in the 13th congressional district than she has, and she'd be among his competitors. I think that Mike Duggan's endorsement will mean very little to people who live outside of Detroit, and a big part of the 13th is outside of Detroit. If you look at the election maps last time, what you would see is that Portia Roberson and Adam Ollier won Detroit. Sheree Thanedar did not do well in Detroit, but that he won. You know the race outside of Detroit and so you only need a certain number of Detroit voters if you're going to win an out. You know a 13th congressional out-county race and Mary Waters does not have that kind of pull. She doesn't have the kind of you know attractive. There's just nothing that I see her. I don't think she's going to be a threat.
Speaker 3:I think I've heard rumors that there's somebody who is actually stepping down from a federal post. I'm not going to say which post that is, but it's significant who's considering a run for that race. This is a person who has great name recognition and is trying to figure out what's next. I agree that it's going to be more than just those three people running against Sheree. I also think that there is this mindset, sometimes in Detroit, that we need to narrow the field to one Black candidate that's anointed by the Black political class to run against the other guy, and that is like a 1968 tactic. It is 2025. And there's so much diversity in thought and belief systems You're not going to be able to narrow it. If your fight against Sri is here's the black guy against the Indian guy, you're going to lose.
Speaker 4:I think there's been one candidate currently in that race that has separated himself. And when I see Donovan getting all these legislative endorsements, when I see Donovan getting all of the financial support, despite the fact that Adam did narrowly inch out him in the fundraising total last reporting period, I just don't know. I don't know if Adam has the same lane as he did a year ago before he was disqualified.
Speaker 3:I really don't. I think that when he got disqualified, I think that it did something to his political career. I absolutely agree with what you're saying there. I do want to point out, though, that I think that Adam Ollier-.
Speaker 4:I think he has a bright political future. I'm not as concerned about his career as in the career within getting elected in the 13th district to replace Sheree I think he has to do some things to rebuild trust.
Speaker 3:People put a whole lot of trust in him and he fumbled the ball. And whether or not people are going to put trust in a person who fumbled the ball in the past, ran one time, didn't get elected, ran and really should have been in a very competitive position and fumbled the ball. And now you have Donovan McKinney, a fresh face, somebody who's represented the state, who actually is running on a platform of progressive ideas that will be attractive to people outside of the city of Detroit.
Speaker 4:His version of progressivism is very different than Adam's.
Speaker 3:Adam is not a progressive. Adam may use those terms, but when you talk about progressive topics and I know Adam, we've talked a lot and argued a lot he actually came on Authentically Detroit several times. First of all, adam is pro-Israel and would not speak out against Gaza, and I told him last year when he was running and trying to figure out if he was going to run as a writing candidate, I could not support him unless he separated himself. And he said well, I want to focus on local issues. Right now there's pretty white consensus that what we're seeing in Gaza is a genocide. It was a genocide last year.
Speaker 4:And I want to get away from the idea that it's not a local issue, when so many of these folks that I talk to, who aren't Jewish or Muslim and Arab, still care about what's happening. Right, I talk to people every day who are not Jewish or Muslim, that are concerned about how their tax dollars are being spent by the federal government.
Speaker 3:Including me right, and you know so. We're paying into taxes and it's horrifying to many of us. So that's one issue, but you know environmental justice issues. He got up to Lansing and he fumbled the ball a couple of times on a couple of votes that I didn't like, one where he voted against the governor on line five with the Republican Party, long before Karen Whitsitt was the lone Republican Democrat voting with Republicans. He did that His first vote when he was he was a big friend with Tom Barrett.
Speaker 4:I mean that was his Republican buddy that he would-. Exactly he would stump for when he would give Senate speeches and I will say Adam is a totally effective communicator. I mean, he has a talent for speaking in front of a room and he commands a room when he walks in. I do think he has a career beyond running against Street Canada.
Speaker 3:I think that he may he's charismatic. Not to mention he's a nice guy, he's charismatic, he's a nice guy, he's got a lot of friends, but the reality is, if you stand for nothing, you will not win, because that's the environment that we're in right now.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's getting harder for folks who are, you know, saying one thing to the corporate class and saying another thing to the regular folk class that we all exist on. Exactly, that's me and you right, we're regular folks.
Speaker 3:Oh, exactly, you know, and I try to communicate. You know, one thing about me is I'll say the same thing whatever room I'm in.
Speaker 1:You know that right and I'm saying it on the air Me too.
Speaker 3:I'll be consistent and people are looking for consistency, passion and ideas from their candidates. It's not enough to. You want to be a modern day John Conyers, and so you have this stylist. He's stylistically the similar to some people, but I don't see the substance and the passion for real justice causes coming out. And I don't want to attack Adam.
Speaker 3:I think Adam represents something that you see a lot in Detroit and that is politicians who know how to win Detroiters votes, like Mary Waters, but who don't know how to win outstate votes, and it's those votes that are going to matter. It's going to be downriver voters who decide. You're voting on my issues. Detroit voters are more conservative because of our religious connection and because a lot of times we're really focused on what we consider bread and butter economic issues. When you get to Trenton, when you get to Garden City, when you get to places like that, people's visions for what politicians should represent become a lot more expansive. And can you represent those as a Democrat, because a lot of those people are voting Republican. The Democrats are more progressive in a lot of places than they are in the city of Detroit.
Speaker 4:I wrote about that yesterday. You can go read about it. Many Shades of Detroit Democrats.
Speaker 3:I can't wait to read that yeah it's a 2,000 word story.
Speaker 4:I went really long on, just kind of the state of how the competing factions of the party are sort of navigating the unpopularity of the national brand. Obviously you have Duggan and the Witsets and the Tyrone Carters and you have the Denzels and the Gabbys and the Mary Sheffields.
Speaker 3:Remember when we redistricted in Michigan. Last thing I'm going to say about Donovan McKinney when Michigan redistricted, donovan McKinney was one of the only black people to win in one of the new congressional districts, representing Detroit. He was able to win in the state legislative districts. He was one of the few. I think he's demonstrated his ability. He's affiliated with the right people. I think black Democrats, if you want to win, you should definitely affiliate with progressives, because that's what's going to win you countywide, region-wide seats. It's not going to be your typical old school black democratic politics. There's a lot that could be written about that. I'm reading a lot about how democratic policies are transformed based on so many ways and I think we need to catch up to that, and so I hope that next year there are other people certainly. I think Donovan McKinney has done a good job. He was trying to outfund, raise Adam Ollier saying I need to raise a certain amount of money now and I can push them out of the race, and they kind of raised equivalent amounts of money.
Speaker 4:They did. They raised about the same amount. Adam Edged Donovan yeah, he really went hard with the text message campaign, didn't he? I was getting a bunch of those text messages.
Speaker 3:No, we had a phone conversation. I said to him listen, I'm not trying to be rude. It's not your time Sit to be rude. It's not your time Sit down, because there's a mayoral race and there's some other races for city council that are so important that I've got to keep my focus there.
Speaker 4:You're talking about Donovan.
Speaker 3:Donovan yeah.
Speaker 4:He was spamming everybody's phone by the hour Like, hey, we're at this goal, we reached our goal.
Speaker 3:We're going to close out, but I just want to finalize one thing on Donovan's campaign. There was a picture of him with his newborn baby. That you posted and he used that as a campaign message.
Speaker 4:I did. I thought I wondered what the what the response would be. And there was one person that was like I don't like this.
Speaker 3:Well, I mean more than I don't like this. This is disgusting, what they didn't say that.
Speaker 4:Who said that?
Speaker 3:You go back and look at it there was somebody who looked at it and said it was disgusting, it was repulsive, and they accused him of selling his baby. It was a really bad message. I responded to it, but at any rate, congratulations, donovan. Yes, I do think that people you know you are a family man and we're happy for you, and certainly if I had given birth to a child during campaign season, I'd probably want to share it with the world too. But I think that it would be interesting to see and I don't know because I've responded positively to it, I don't know if other people did it would be interesting to see whether or not people reacted the way I did.
Speaker 4:They said why do people do this weird ass, ass like this?
Speaker 3:What? I didn't even see this. It's more than that. Oh my God. They kept going on too. They kept going.
Speaker 4:He wants to share his baby everyone. Why is that such a big deal?
Speaker 3:Here's I'm weird for not wanting newborn babies to be exploited in a political campaign ploy and be shared without the consent of the child, For anyone to do whatever they want with said photo the newborn babies can't consent to anything. We're wanting to protect children from digital harm. Sure.
Speaker 4:I don't think the picture of oh, my God, you know, I don't think that that photo and I it's the same idea with, with Gary Miles telling me well, I don't know where any of my editorial board lives, because we don't want to dox each other. It's the same, it's the same idea. People are so, like you know, I need to put the thing in front of my camera thing because I'm getting surveyed. Guys, everything's going to be okay, Like I promise. Like no one's after you, no one is coming after you.
Speaker 3:I think of that as sometimes anti-blackness, that you can take something that a black person does and make it evil. Showing the birth of a child in this challenging world and calling it evil is anyway. Yeah Well, that'll close out.
Speaker 4:It will.
Speaker 3:So thank you so much for listening to the Black Detroit Democracy podcast. Be sure to like, rate and subscribe to our podcast on all platforms no-transcript.
