Authentically Detroit
Authentically Detroit is the leading podcast in the city for candid conversations, exchanging progressive ideas, and centering resident perspectives on current events.
Hosted by Donna Givens Davidson and Orlando P. Bailey.
Produced by Sarah Johnson and Engineered by Griffin Hutchings.
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Authentically Detroit
Black Detroit Democracy Podcast: Detroit’s Demolition Drama, New WNBA Team, and DTE Battles
The Authentically Detroit Podcast Network in collaboration with Detroit One Million presents: The Black Detroit Democracy Podcast, hosted by Donna Givens Davidson and Sam Robinson!
Together, Donna and Sam illuminate the complexities of Detroit’s unique political landscape and give residents a resource for navigating civic engagement and election season.
In this episode, they trace how a demolition contractor without proper bonding left subcontractors unpaid, raised environmental risks through contaminated backfill, and exposed failures in selection, oversight, and ethics. They also discuss the WNBA’s Detroit return and the debate over what to name the team. Finally, they break down a high-stakes fight over DTE rate hikes plus their proposed AI data center whose impact on the environment and customer rates remain unknown. Together they take a look at how statewide politics are shaping oversight and the future of environmental justice.
For more episodes of the Black Detroit Democracy Podcast, click here.
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SPEAKER_01:Welcome to the Black Detroit Democracy Podcast. Every week we open this podcast with a reading of the preamble to the Detroit City Charter, read by the one and only Bryce Detroit. The City Charter is our Constitution, which defines our rights and the way government should work. I'm Dinah Givens-Davidson, President and CEO of the Eastside Community Network.
SPEAKER_05:And I'm Sam Robinson, founder of Detroit One Million.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you for listening in and supporting this expanded effort to build another platform of authentic voices for real people in the city of Detroit. We want you to like, rate, and subscribe to our podcast on all platforms. The purpose of this podcast is to encourage Detroit citizens to stay vigilant in the fight for justice and equality with a special call to action for Black Detroit. We seek to build awareness of our history as a gateway to freedom, a beacon for justice, and a laboratory of liberation. Welcome back to the Black Detroit Democracy Podcast. Well, it's time for Word on the Street where we break down what everyone's been saying behind the scenes. Sam, there's a lot, but what have you heard?
SPEAKER_05:There is a lot. I was at a PACT City Council yesterday for not just uh, you know, one of the last council sessions before we see sort of a remaking of Detroit City Council is going to add in District 5. Renata Miller is going to replace Mary Sheffield and in District 7. Denzel McCampbell is going to replace Fred Durhal. Things got heated over this dirt uh demolition contractor scandal, I guess you would call it a scandal. I talked to subcontractors, uh minority certified businesses with the city of Detroit, who tell me they're having a hard time paying. Some of them are having a hard time paying their employees because this guy, Brian McKinney, the owner of Gyonga uh company, uh this is a demolition company that um you know is closely uh championed by the city of Detroit in the last several years.
SPEAKER_01:And let's let's be clear by the mayor of the city of Detroit.
SPEAKER_05:Um through social media shout-outs, shout-outs on stage and and during speeches.
SPEAKER_01:Um, demolition in Detroit. When people were concerned about demolition program in the city of Detroit not employing black folks, Brian McKinney was positioned as the savior. And he got a lot of the contracts. Um, I think I read something like$57 million worth of business with the city of Detroit.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, I think$68 million.$68 million. And he did it all without his company being bonded.
SPEAKER_01:Right. So let's let's let's talk about the process for a demolition company in the city of Detroit, because there is a process. You can't go to, first of all, you just can't show up and bid. The city has a demolition board or an entity that approves demolition contractors. And those approved demolition contractors the city solicits bids from demolition contractors. The city of Detroit, under Mayor Duggan's leadership, and right now we do have a Department of Demolition, reviews the bids, selects the entities, prepares a contract that is then sent to City Council for approval. So the lion's share of the work is done by the mayor's office. They are the ones who select all of the contractors. City Council has the sole authority to approve and perhaps investigate if they have questions. And so we can acknowledge that the majority of Guyanga's contracts were approved by majority, uh unanimous vote. There were, I think, early on in 2019 about 50 contracts that two city council people voted no and um for Guyanga, and that is um former council president Brenda Jones and then Mary Sheffield. Seven other city council persons approved those contracts every single time. So as we discuss this, this should rest at the feet of the mayor of Detroit, not the mayor elect, who has been centered in this controversy because it's um salacious.
SPEAKER_05:Sure.
SPEAKER_01:And there was a relationship between her and this contractor, but this whole process of him becoming a contractor started long before that relationship. It was not based on that relationship. And I think it's important that we set the record straight on that.
SPEAKER_05:Mary Sheffield went to the City of Detroit ethics board. Um there's a lot of scrutiny around whether or not um you know that can be uh you know uh uh uh without conflict uh approving. And I think as Donna, you you know correctly summarize, I think there are more factors that play than what is being framed. Um I think it's fair to uh you know ask the question as and and I think the the the answers to to this point um have have been appropriate. Um there's a lot of questions still that will be asked. I think the people that are going to lead the the fight in asking those questions, you saw Charlie Leduff actually give public comment um sort of defending some of these subcontractors who uh you know are the real victims of this.
SPEAKER_01:I I didn't see Charlie Leduff statements.
SPEAKER_05:And I think the question Yes, he he was there um you know saying, you know, there needs to be justice on behalf of these folks that have been stiffed out of hundreds of thousands of dollars.
SPEAKER_01:There absolutely does need to be justice on behalf of those folks who've been stiffed out of hundreds of thousands of dollars. And there has to be an improved process to ensure that all contractors who are doing that level of city business business are bonded. And it seems as though there's a violation on part of contracting to not ensure they're bonded. I cannot imagine this passing legal scrutiny without the law department saying, wait a minute, is this person bonded? Some things slip through the cracks and we need to figure out who did what wrong. But I think we're focusing on the wrong aspects of it because it is salacious, because it does involve the mayor-elect, and we're not really looking at the process for contractor selection, which again is something that the mayoral administration oversees. And now I would imagine the inspector general is going to go back and make some recommendations to city council about things that they can do to tighten up the scrutiny of contracts before they're approved, questions they should ask. And, you know, but but when those contracts come before City Council, the City of Detroit is recommending their passage. It's not a neutral process where they're saying, what do you think? Do you think we should select this person or not? The City of Detroit brings contracts forward that they would like to have passed. City Council has the responsibility for reviewing, scrutinizing, and approving them. And I think it's safe to say there was a breakdown on some level, and certainly the city of Detroit under Mayor Duggan bears a large responsibility for that. You can't make that your poster child for demolition and then go hide when things go wrong.
SPEAKER_05:And that is exactly what Michael Leavitt, he is the attorney for um several of these subcontractors, vendors, told me yesterday. You know, the ethics we're going back to the sort of background story, which you know didn't really come up in the uh framework other than her vocal critics, you know, loudly showing up to counsel and being escorted out by security, or Charlie, you know, sort of smugly suggesting it in his comments. But the board told her to exercise caution to remain independent. She says that's what she did and and you know lets the record speak for itself. Um I I think that there will be, you know, I do think the story is on the subcontractors, on the vendors, and I want to keep it there because there are folks that are struggling to pay their employees. There are folks that are out of work having to stand in food bank lines because of Brian McKinney's uh negligence.
SPEAKER_01:There's two stories.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:One of the stories is on the contracting process and it's got to be improved. The other story is on the failure, the the impact of the failure to ensure he was bonded on these contractors who now are are stiffed. And I'm sure there will be lawsuits, and I'm sure through those lawsuits, they'll try to recoup some money. Out of$68 million, we don't know how much is left. We know also through yesterday there was also work that Gyanka was doing for DWSD.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And so, and that's a whole separate approval process. Different people are in charge of that. Um, it's a bad look, and um, possibly we don't know what it's going to amount to, but I would imagine he's not going to do business in the city of Detroit moving forward.
SPEAKER_05:No, and um, you know, of course, everyone is there uh, you know, sort of waiting to see how counsel would react to Guyanga attorneys defending Brian McKinney, accusing the city's inspector general of racism, frankly. Um, you know, nobody nobody really came to his defense. We did hear one comment suggestion that sort of riled up the subcontractors and vendors from Angela Whitfield Callaway that sort of council member Angela Whitfield. She she, you know, in speaking to trying to pay the vendors, the subcontractors, suggested the city pay McKinney. Of course, the subcontractors, vendors sitting there, understanding that McKinney has already stiffed them, you know, however many months it's been, um, they didn't they don't believe that if the if they if he got paid that they would get any of that money.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, um, according to the city, and maybe I've read this incorrectly, he's already been paid for the work he's done. That's not been suspended. What's been suspended has been future work. And so I think that, you know, we'll just assume, hope that she was ill-informed when she made that suggestion and she did not, you know, fact-check to ensure that this was not a matter of we're not going to pay you for work you performed. This is a matter if you cannot perform any work on behalf of the city, either you, Brian McKinney, individually, or Guyanga, um, your corporate entity, during this period of debarment. Now, it could be permanent, it could be, you know, for the next 20 years, I don't know. But I think the violation of human rights, and I think when you don't pay people, that's a violation of human rights, yes, won't won't, won't sell well. So even if the debarment is over, I can't imagine these contracts getting approved. Um and I think that we've learned something about mass demolitions. Because there's the other aspect of mass demolitions that came out, and that is that when you are digging big holes in the ground quickly, getting enough backfill that's clean and sanitized and been checked to make sure it's not polluted is really hard. And it's expensive. There's a whole industry of polluted backfill selling polluted backfill. It's a hidden industry where people are making millions and millions of dollars selling this stuff. And there's stories that have been, um, there's, you know, analysis that have gone back years to point out that a lot of lots are being backfilled without unapproved sources of backfill. So this is not restricted to this one contractor. I think the problem is that when you want to cry racism um over being suspended for poisoning the soil of places where black people live, and assert that you have the privilege of doing so and you don't have a responsibility to make sure that that soil is not contaminated, it's just not going to sell very well. Another interesting part of that story, though, is that the Perkins law firm was involved in this um, you know, in in defending him and actually representing him at City Council because we know that Todd Perkins, who was not the attorney of record at the um hearing, was his partner was is his partner. Um I guess he must be the majority partner because his his name was on the building, but or on the the farm. But we know that he just ran against Mayor Lex Sheffield for um, you know, for the mayoral race and lost in the primary at the primaries.
SPEAKER_05:But yeah, yeah, it was interesting uh sitting in that room. Of course, you know, the the sort of ironic twist part of the story. Now they're using racism as a tool, you know. They were the only demolition company that was certified as a as a Detroit resident business six or seven years ago when there was a a a ton of attention on that issue, the idea that these construction companies were not hiring Detroiters. Um when you think about these companies being stiffed by Brian McKinney, uh, that's who it's harming, are these Detroit workers who he claimed to be the champion of.
SPEAKER_01:And one of them um, you know, got fired for a whistleblowing complaint. According to your um reporting, um, said that she had been threatened with a gun by Brian McKinney in the process.
SPEAKER_05:Said she she had witnessed uh him threatening you know others, several individuals. She said she has the video. I'm still waiting to see that video. Um this woman named Carla Osborne says that you know she she at first feared speaking out, but felt like it was her duty, as she felt like it was her duty to report uh McKinney's company when she worked there last year. She was fired on her birthday, she tells me. And you know, was threatened. And um yeah, she she's fearful that she's going to be able to continue to get work in her the industry that she you know has spent invested time and money to get certification to do. Um and so it was a really you know, it was an emotional story. She accosted a man walking out of the council chamber, had to get escorted out by security as as she's yelling at this man who she tells me um is being uh sort of you know bribed more or less to defend McKinney's company. Um yeah, it's a sad case, it's a sad story. It was a sad day at City Council.
SPEAKER_01:So I think this is a story we should follow. Yeah. Um I'm really interested in contracting and how we make sure that we are doing the right things. Um, I'm interested in the findings from the inspector general. Um, I actually know Kamal Mirable, believe that he is a very has a lot of integrity. And again, this is a black man who's being accused of racism, and so that gets really interesting, or racial bias. Um, a black resident of Detroit who is leading this department. And um, so I think it's always a good idea to um you know assume that public officials are trying to do their jobs well unless you have evidence otherwise. But let's follow the story, let's follow up and find out what happened to these contractors, whether they got paid. Um, I'm not certain that the city has the ability to pay them directly, so it may end up being a lawsuit. Um, and I don't know who would be sued because um I don't know if the city is exposed because he was not bonded. And um, that's for the lawyers to figure out, but I think we should be looking at this case as an example and keep the focus where it should be on contracting processes, making sure that they're appropriate, making sure that we've done the correct screening and we have all the documentation. And um also whistleblowing. Like, why was he allowed to amass hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt without some kind of consequence and going to the city saying, listen, you know, is there a way for, and I'm not even thinking of whistleblowing blowers, I just think of the Office of Civil Rights. I think of all of these different opportunities for compliance to make sure that whoever the contractor is working in the city of Detroit is actually, you know, not violating people's rights.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, I agree. I think the government ethics component to the story is one that is also fair to scrutinize when asked, you know, this is not related to this, but when asked about the concert ticket drama that was a story during the election, you know. Mayor Alex Sheffield said she would like to see our ethics uh systems improved and strengthened.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean they should be improved and strengthened. I think you should have clear advice. And I also think that we should have some level of litmus test about things that we are concerned about as a city. Um I and I'm not trying to, whoever the mayor is, even if it's a mayor who I don't like. If, for example, somebody gave Mayor Duggan six concert tickets to see um kid rock, um, I wouldn't care. I don't think that that's a material gift. Um, and that's just me. If I allow you to come sit in my suite, I don't think that I think that's, you know, we have to have a certain level of scrutiny where we say that some things are more significant than others. Will a mayor be invited to places where there are valuable things being done or offered? Absolutely. They get invited to dinners, they get invited to all different types of corporate events. Um, and I don't know that any kind of ethics committee is going to change that. Maybe they should, but I'm just saying that we're dealing with hundreds of millions of um, hundreds of thousands of dollars in perhaps misuse funds going to contractors, and that should be where our focus is when we talk about ethics and not on trying to play gotcha games with public officials who are, you know, treated like um, you know, VIPs in our city for a reason. And again, I don't know that you're going to take away the VIP status. We have events, and I'll give an example. We have an event where people pay, you know, um$150 for a ticket to come to the East Side Extravaganza. And we've had city council members, not the mayor-elect, city council members show up and expect to be fed, expect to sit down, and you know, you can say, well, you know, is that fair? And I'm not talking about um our city council person, Letitia Johnson, who always purchases a table and um, you know, contributes, but there have been city council people who have shown up. There have been other elected officials who have shown up at events and expected to be able to partake in whatever it is they were offering without paying money. And that's a thing. I mean, it's just a thing.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, yeah, it is. And uh yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I and and you know, you have to accommodate them. I go to places and people say, who are all the elected officials in the room? And they're there. And I don't know that 100% of those people are paying tickets. I don't know there's a good use of our time to find out if they are. I'm concerned about contracting. I'm concerned about relationships that are have a material impact on a decision. Even if there was an ethical complaint, and you know, and I'm I'm not trying to minimize it, but if you have nine city council people and one person has a relationship with somebody else and they give a yes vote, if they voted no or they disclose to have a relationship, that would not necessarily sway the eight other votes. So, you know, it's not as though there was a real opportunity for independent input unless there's evidence that this city council person who had that relationship was working behind the scenes to sway other people to vote for these contracts. And there's no evidence of that.
SPEAKER_05:And so we we don't have I mean we we have more evidence that would suggest that like these subcontractors, like you know, many of the people that I've talked to about Brian McKinney, you know, perhaps uh Sheffield, who uh is you know no longer and has not been for several years, um in a relationship with this person, you know, perhaps she has also been swindled and conned by the person.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I mean, good people tend to treat people well. And people who defraud people and do other things don't tend to treat people well. I mean, there's also the possibility, I don't know if anybody else has ever been in a breakup or dated somebody and they have bad feelings, but those aren't necessarily people you're gonna vote in favor of in the future anyway. So this suggestion that's because I dated you a few times or for a little while, that you are forever on my good list. Um, well, if you're me, reality would suggest that's not true. There are people who stay friends with people that used to, but you know, some of us, especially when they're not necessarily great to us, we don't necessarily want to take care of them anymore. And so there's this silliness, and I think people are just grasping for something, and it is salacious, and it's a woman. And so there's always going to be this scrutiny about her personal life. I appreciate you putting the focus where it belongs, and that is on the workers, it is on the contractors, it is on the people who have been harmed by the polluted soil, and it is the responsibility of the person who uh did all of this. Brian McKinney is the person who we should be really focused on holding accountable even as we try to tighten up our contracting processes.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. I want to talk about something that I'm excited about.
SPEAKER_01:We'll do that in a minute. We're gonna take a short break.
SPEAKER_05:Yes. And then we'll come back and um we're gonna talk about the WNBA Detroit basketball experience is coming 2029.
SPEAKER_01:All right, we'll be right back.
SPEAKER_04:Detroit 1 million is a journalism project started by Sam Robinson that centers a generation of Michiganders growing up in a state without a city with one million people. Support the only independent reporter covering the 2025 Detroit mayoral race through the lens of young people. Good journalism costs. Visit Detroit1million.com to support black independent reporting.
SPEAKER_01:And we're back to talk about the WMBA. Um, I have to say, as a woman, it is so exciting to see the WMBA getting the kind of visibility and interest that it is now getting. So um talk.
SPEAKER_05:Yes, Detroit's WMBA team still unsure whether they're going to be able to call themselves the Detroit Shock. Uh, my research this morning uncovered that the Detroit Shock actually currently exists. A league called the Women's Basketball League currently owns the naming rights to the Detroit Shock. They use the Shock uh name on their jersey. Not clear to me how many teams are in this semi-professional league. Uh the owner of the league also owns the naming rights to the Cleveland former women's basketball team. So it appears more like a front to just uh, you know, sort of hold hostage these names until the teams come back. They are coming back. There was a team coming back to Cleveland, much like Detroit, WNBA. Um Shock, the Detroit Shock won three championships. Um they won him with Bill Lambeer, former bad boy Piston, as the head coach. And then they moved once Bill Davidson died. He is the um former owner of the Detroit Pistons. You will see William Davidson, you'll see his name on the uh park with the new basketball complex uh at the Ralph Wilson Park down there at the riverfront. It's very nice. Go check it out if you have not yet. I know it's getting cold, but it's still nice. Um, it's it's covered, and so it's two full-size NBA courts. Um, but his wife moved the team to Tulsa, Oklahoma. That team moved to Dallas. They're now the Dallas Wings. And so a lot of people are wondering on top of the team name, are they gonna be able to get the history back? Like, are we going to be able to say, yes, that you know, we were the Detroit shock? We still don't know because you know, in sports, how pro sports works are like franchises will hold hostage the history of a team, say the Oklahoma City Thunder, operate as if the Seattle Supersonic, they they still cherish that history uh within the Oklahoma City building. But the Seattle fans hate that they do that. And if a Seattle team comes back to the NBA, they are certainly going to have you know a big rivalry with that with that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, there's a number of teams that have historically moved from one place to the other, and the team history goes where the team goes, not where the um where they started. There's not geographic. Um, I almost think it would be good, good idea to come up with a new name, an exciting name, something that, you know, you know, back when the shock was with the WNBA, first of all, television rights weren't that great. So you're not watching it on TV. Right. You still don't see the WNBA on the you know, mainstream channels in the same way that you do the NBA. Um and but we're talking about a period of time where the WNBA just was not um uh respected. Women's sports were not as respected. I mean, maybe tennis. Um, we're seeing women's sports actually getting more visibility and um there, you know, all the rivalries um with Caitlin and um Angel actually have helped elevate the visibility because people watch, they can attack the other person. Um, but you know, I mean I'm excited about it. When my daughters were in high school um at Renaissance, I knew a number of the women's basketball players and the the boy best the boys and girls' teams. And I went to a lot of the girls' teams. Um, but I watched that at a high school level, not at a professional level. Yeah, um, and a lot of those young ladies were really, really good and had nowhere to go. And so this expansion of the WMB WNBA is significant for young women athletes.
SPEAKER_05:It really is. I mean, even today, you think about the current iteration of the WNBA is I think I mean it might even be 12 teams. I gotta look it up. How many WMB teams uh you know it's not very many teams is a condensed season. I think they play, you know, around like 25 to 35 games in a regular season. Um the financing of the practice facility, they will not build a new arena for this. Uh, they will share split time between the LCA and the Wayne State new um facility where the Motor City Cruise NBA G League team plays. Um, but they are gonna get their own practice facility and uh in a separate phase uh of that development, we will see a youth sports academy is what is being billed as this youth sports complex facility, whatever you want to call it. Um when you talk about youth sports academy, there's a lot of uh like it could go any sort of direction with that. Because when I think of sports academy, I'm thinking of some prep school in Florida that costs a hundred thousand dollars for rich people in New York and California to send their kids to to try to become pro athletes, and I don't know if that's you know the goal of what they're trying to cook up there. I don't think that's it.
SPEAKER_01:You know, I have to be honest. I um I'm a track mom, so my oldest and youngest ran track um through high school, um, and all three of my children ran track at one point, but the oldest Youngest state with it the longest. And we used to travel a lot to track meets because people don't necessarily know that track is an all-year sport. You have indoor track that starts in November or December practicing. Then you have school track, which follows when you're in high school. Then you have your outdoor season, which is where you're competing against people in different locations, and that's your club track. And then you go back to your indoor track. And so there were places that we would travel to for indoor tracks. These are places that have 400-meter tracks. And there's a place in Ohio, I'm trying to remember the name of the place in Ohio, which was amazing. They had dance rooms there, they had basketball courts, tennis courts, and it was this bringing together all of these youth sports. And I kept thinking Detroit needs something like this. It would be such a good way to make money because you have people traveling from all over to go to Prince George's County at their Nike track facility. Um, again, which was a full sports facility. And I think that's what they're looking at doing here, which is something I've been wanting to see happen for so long. It makes a whole lot of economic sense for us to invest in youth sports. When my kids ran track during the indoor season, there was no place in the city of Detroit for them to practice. So they had to go to either Ypsilani at Eastern University or the University of Michigan track in order to practice. Think about this. I'm working full-time, I've got three children, and I'm driving to Ann Arbor or Ypsilani through two or three times a week. And then the meets are all day meets. So there's a lot of economic opportunity for that. Um, I'm hoping that's what they intend to do. It's something that many people think they should do. The question is, and I think this is the big question. One, who's going to operate it? Two, have they raised the money? And three, why isn't this included in the community benefits or in the plan that city council was asked to approve? Because they broke it into two different phases. And phases one is what I believe was approved. And that phase one cost is going to um be under below the$75 million threshold for a community benefits plan.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. Uh$75 million is the requirement. That's the amount uh, you know, if projects go over, then you know, it needs to have a community input process involving the impacted residents nearby. Um Malachi Barrett of Bridge Detroit, who has probably been the leading CBO reporter over the last um several years himself, um JC Riddle as well, the Detroit Free Press. Uh pressed uh Richard Haddad, he is the um leader of Detroit Sports and Entertainment. They are a group working with W Detroit, um, that is the developer behind this project. They say um that it's two separate projects. The WMBA Practice Facility and the Youth Academy are going to be developed in two separate phases. Uh they're asking for a brownfield tax increment financing package that of course needs legislative approval for$34.5 million for prep costs. And um Detroiters for tax justice they say that they're skirting the CBO agreements by by doing it this way. They say that the development is all in the same. Um the the developer's own Brownfield proposal references this as one development. Um so it is you know interesting that they are uh doing it this way. It is very clear and obvious to advocates and to people that have been following the CVO process that uh companies uh you know these developers oftentimes find this process highly annoying and they do not like participating in it.
SPEAKER_01:Um well, you know, this is a community benefits process I would get to participate in because it's so close to where I live. So um I'm happy it's happening, but I'm interested. What is the status of this project right now?
SPEAKER_05:Well, they want the team to come by 2029. Um they're gonna need state approval through the Michigan Strategic Fund. You know, they're they're doing this um Brownfield TIF uh plan that we've seen be used for the Hudson's building or District Detroit. But um but but they're they're splitting the project into two separate and and city council.
SPEAKER_01:I think the point is that city council approved it.
SPEAKER_05:Yes, they approved it, yeah, unanimously. Uh we heard from a number of community voices.
SPEAKER_01:And in full disclosure, I gave a letter of support to this project. Okay, sure. Um I don't know when I gave the letter of support that I understood that there would be two separate, you know, proposals submitted. Um, but I did submit a letter of support because I believe that it makes sense for for that land to be redeveloped.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, and especially you talk about you know another can you know we're talking about contaminated dirt, the Unoroil site. Yeah. They're getting a reimbursement, the um thirty-five and a half million, thirty-four and a half million dollars that they're requesting through the TIFF Brownfield um tool that would they say um you know, do do the um what what what is the actual language? Let me not um butcher what they actually it's for site read remediation and preparation, but there's something with the dirt because it is the former unaroyal site that requires an intensive cleanup process. And they explained it yesterday at the city council session. Um you can go back and listen to their explanation. I I am not a uh I'm not a mover of dirt, I'm not Brian McKinney, so I can't explain contaminated dirt.
SPEAKER_01:Well, we should have a whole discussion on that because it is um a component of environmental justice that is under um, you know, is it's not discussed as much. I researched demolitions in my class and I learned about the um backfill economy, and it was really fascinating to me and really disturbing at the same time in that research, but it's not publicly discussed often enough that when you have that many demolitions, you have those issues. Um and then when you have a project site like the Unoroil site, it's allowed to sit in a contaminated state for, you know, ever until you have somebody coming in to invest in that. It's the investment that attracts the cleanup dollars. The challenge I have with that is that when you have contamination like that, especially that close to the Detroit River, I wonder about seepage of that contamination into the river and are we impacting our groundwater? Should we be more proactive at cleaning up sites we know are heavily contaminated, even when we know it's gonna be, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars? I do want to um make a correction real quickly. Yeah. When I talked about the place in Ohio, it's the Spire Academy. Spire. Okay, so that's my doubt. They are a boarding school. And I didn't realize, I think when I first went there, they weren't a boarding school and now they are. Um so yeah, that is an example of um a boarding school that also offers these benefits to people outside. I'm hoping that it's not a boarding school because, you know, I have my own thoughts around um taking children out of high school and putting them in these settings where all they do is focus on in sports. Um, I I don't, and a lot of times the academics are not what they should be.
SPEAKER_05:No. Um Cade Cunningham went to a similar style of prep school when he was 15 years old. And so he, as a high school sophomore, left high school and moved um from Texas to Florida. Yeah. Uh it's called Mount Verde. Um seems like a well-adjusted young man. He did that. You can go watch his interview with Kevin Durant. It was really interesting. Finally, we're hearing him talk about uh the impact that having a daughter at 16 years old had on him. He he he told Kevin that he thought that his basketball career was over. It was because of his parents' support, telling him, no, Cade, like you know, we we got Riley, we have you, you know, go pursue your dreams, that he was able to actually do that. And it was just this, you know, really like uh I mean we've never seen Cade that vulnerable before uh talking to other basketball players and that's what he could probably do that.
SPEAKER_01:And I'm glad he I'm glad he got what he needed. And I'm sure some of the schools do a really good job. There are some that do not.
SPEAKER_05:I I think I agree with the the latter part of it.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, and I think that it's not well regulated. No I hate seeing young people exploit it um when we know that the but if now, and I'd like to see some data, like what percentage of kids graduating from these are actually going to pro sports leagues, are going to college sports leagues, right? How many of them is this a guarantee? How many of them actually, because you know, the percentage of kids who put perform in in high school, play sports in high school, and go on to college is low. And then the percentage of those, especially in basketball, who go from college to the NBA or the NFL is extremely low. And so we can put all of our eggs in this basket, but the basket is not likely to deliver for more people most people. And that's where I think the justice concerns come in. And the other question is if you aren't going to be able to do that, if it's a really good school, then maybe you have the educational background where you can do something else. Your plan B works. But in some schools, I believe you're getting online education without a lot of rigor and a lot of you know monitoring and support. And so the concern is that this kid has been trained and immersed in basketball and is not really equipped to do a whole lot of other things.
SPEAKER_05:I also just wonder the connection to the community in which these kids are living in away from home. I I do wonder that. Like I don't, I'm not sure what city Mount Verde is or whatever, you know, Spire Academy, but yeah, I I I really wonder, you know, the young kids being sort of taken away from home and living in a place that they're not familiar with. It's interesting to think about. Uh Donna, you had the most interesting point of all this today saying, and I, you know, this is a unique you're gonna stand on an island when you said that you want the shock to come with a new name. All the fans want the old name back. Everyone wants the old name because they think about the championships and their favorite player or whatever. But I think that's an interesting perspective, and I think that is one that we will hear more of.
SPEAKER_01:And and you know, admittedly, I'm not a fan of the shock. I will be a fan of this new team. Okay. I'll even go to some games, right? Sure, yeah. I'm excited about it. Um, and I regret not having supported them. I think that uh more of us need to be accountable for supporting women in all of our endeavors, right? Um, I just think sometimes, you know, there's excitement around something new. And so, you know, and maybe you can just add something to the shock. But I think that and keep the shock inside the name. I don't know if you can't use any portion of the name. Um, but you know, I I respect fans. And so if the fans want something different and the fans want to hold on to the old name, I would not be opposed to it. I just think from an outside standpoint, giving it something new um could make it more exciting. But you're right, there are championships that go along with that. There's players and there's history that goes along with that. And so um there would be a loss for some people in this community.
SPEAKER_05:So some someone told me on Twitter, don't mess with a winning brand. Everyone, it seems like, and I use that on my Twitter. Literally everyone that I've talked to is like, bring the shock back. If it's not the shock, who cares? Like literally, like they're like so hung on the shock being the name. And I I hate to disappoint everybody, but based on the conversation that I just had yesterday, doesn't look like it's probably going to be the shock.
SPEAKER_01:Well, if I'm on an island, I hope I get a ferry ride back to the mainland.
SPEAKER_05:I will tell you that uh I asked Haddad directly, um, does an individual currently own the rights to the shock name? He did not answer the question. Um, you know, we we understand that the Detroit shock name is not currently owned by the NBA. He told me I will just say that that's one of the options that we're looking at, but there's a multitude of options and we're not far enough along in the naming process. Um, you know, I I I'm reading through the tea leaves. I just do not think that they're going to spend the money that this man, the man's who owns the shock name, his name is called is Ryan Reed. So perhaps the public should should start pressuring Ryan Reed to sell the name to the WMBA. He said that they've had cordial conversations, he told the Detroit Free Press earlier this year.
SPEAKER_01:Um, I mean, if he has it, if there's no basketball team that's truly functioning under that, or he's not making money on that, then it doesn't necessarily make sense for him to keep it.
SPEAKER_03:It does not.
SPEAKER_01:Um, but you know, um, he may have acquired that with the intent of selling it, or he may have acquired that and now realize there's an opportunity. As with anything, when there's great demand, and the more the public clamors for that name, it also makes it more difficult to get it because if he believes that you don't need that that people will not support the basketball without the shock, then he can charge any amount of money for it. So I think that's the other thing is don't let them hold you hostage. Um, we're gonna take another break, and when we come back, we're gonna talk about the DTE rate hikes. Um, the data centers in Michigan.
SPEAKER_05:We're gonna talk about all kinds of DTE dramas.
SPEAKER_01:Um, so um be right back.
SPEAKER_04:Have you ever dreamed of being on the airwaves? Well, the Authentically Detroit Podcast Network is here to make those dreams come true. Formerly known as the Deep Network and located inside the Stotomyer, the Authentically Detroit Podcast Network are for studio space and production staff to help get your idea off of the ground. Just visit authenticallyd.com and send a request through the contact page.
SPEAKER_01:Let's talk about DTE rate hikes. Um, do you think you're paying enough for your energy bills?
SPEAKER_05:No, I think they should be higher.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's what the that's what DTE tells us.
SPEAKER_01:Can can you ever pay enough? I mean they said they said they're gonna make it more reliable. So they can invest in things to keep the rates low. And I got so confused by the end of that sentence, I was like, so you're gonna keep rates low by making them high. Okay. Um there is, as you know, a petition drive, um, which is mop-up Michigan, money out of politics, Michigan. And I believe one of the can Senate candidates, Abdul El Sayyid, just endorsed Mop-Up Michigan. He did, as well as invest in my kids.
SPEAKER_05:He did.
SPEAKER_01:And the reason that people are looking at Mop-Up Michigan, the target for this is DTE and consumers energy. The fact that these entities that are regulated by the state are allowed to make unlimited contributions to candidates who are regulating them. And there is a clear conflict of interest. There needs to be some clarity that if you regulate me, I cannot pay you. That feels like a basic ethical um expectation that is not in place in our state. And so um MopUp Michigan is saying that, and until we get to Mop Up, Michigan, um, we have an attorney general. Now, I don't agree with everything Dana Nessel does. There's some things and decisions she's made, especially around some of the students protesting the genocide that I just disagree with. But I agree with her scrutiny of the DTE rate hike request.
SPEAKER_05:And she's certainly been a champion uh of uh taking on corporate greed and holding corporations accountable. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And that that so this isn't an important fight. Um and connected to that, but not the same thing is that a lot higher if they if they go through with it. This the city wants, I mean, DTE is also trying to create, open up a date data center with open AI and in Saline, Michigan. The people in Saline, Michigan don't necessarily want this data center. In fact, some of the the they voted it down, but it feels as though it's going to happen anyway, in part because it brings so much money with it. It would just greatly increase the tax base in Saline. Um but I think that there's some other concerns that um people have about these data centers. Um the environmental impact of data centers, which use an extraordinary amount of water. Now DTE is saying, no, we have new technology, we won't be using all that water. Um and then the um the heavy use of electricity. And so, you know, you need the water to cool because the computers get so hot and it they consume so much electricity, these data centers.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, DTE completely rejects this also. I mean, it's important to note that every piece of evidence. I mean, it's important to know that when you go and you pay your bill, they're they're literally telling you, no, you're not you're not actually no, no, no. This is justified because of reason that you will never see or feel.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean, there there's data on Michigan's energy production that shows that it's dirtier than most other states. We don't have to. DTE rejects that and DTE rejects that. I mean, of course, I would reject it too. There was a time when um tobacco manufacturers denied that smoking caused cancer. Um, of course they reject it. But I think the question is not what do they say, what do the facts say, and what has happened in other places. Um data centers, in addition to everything we talked about, one of the challenges with data centers is that they um use up so much energy and they get these agreements with the energy companies to cap their bills, and the excess bill is passed on to the rest of us. And so you have, you know, in on the east side of Detroit, an outdated grid that's unreliable, and energy that costs more than most states, and now you have a data center that is going to draw some of this electricity, the infrastructure is going to be invested in them, and the price is likely to go up even if the price per unit doesn't go up. Somebody's gonna have to pay the bill.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. Yeah. And uh when you talk about these Tennessee rural communities that say that the water pressure in their faucets, in their showers, is being impacted by the amount of water it takes. Um their their energy bills are increased. And you know, the design choice, the layout, and the amount of space that the actual data centers themselves take up are just you know a nuisance in their backyards. And you know, a lot of these folks, of course, are are living in rural communities on purpose, living in um um sort of with you know the environment in mind. We think about our rural neighbors across Michigan, but I think in a certain way, in a certain connotation. One connotation we forget is that a lot of these folks really care about the environment in the Great Lakes. No matter what else they think in their minds, they um use the environment as a reason to block you know affordable housing in their in their neighborhoods. You know, think about those same people when you say, okay, you know affordable housing, but we'll put a data center. You know, they're they're saying no also to that. And it's an interesting horseshoe of uh sort of right-wing um folks who you know want their communities to stay as they have been inherited, you know, for generations. Open fields and farming and agricultural communities uh you know are transformed into uh part of open AI's Stargate project to deploy$500 billion in American AI infrastructure over the next 10 years or whatever. You know, like we're making such a big bet on this industry.
SPEAKER_01:And it's not necessarily reliable. You know, I think people are saying that there's a limit to how many data centers we'll actually need. Um, a lot of them are talked about but not built. Michigan actually doesn't have the most um data centers in our region. Illinois and Ohio are fourth and fifth in the number of data centers in our region. Michigan does have over 50 data centers, however, and I don't think that most people know that data centers are not new to our community. There's a reason why data centers are coming to Great Lakes states, and that's because of the access to water. And also because of relatively cool temperatures in comparison to many other places. Um, but we already have so many threats to groundwater in our state. Every single Great Lakes state is struggling with groundwater in parts of the state. Um if we deplete our groundwater, you don't replace it. So I think that we also have to be very concerned about protecting our water source, and we don't always do that.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, DTE would completely reject that.
SPEAKER_01:Of course.
SPEAKER_05:What would they say? What I don't know. I mean, they just they just say that, you know, don't nope, they assure you that they I don't know if they actually explain it. I I I am saying this to say I think that it is a very suspicious and frankly weak justifications for a lot of the a lot of their decision making right now. Related company is another component to this story. And when you talk about um the governor's race between um Jocelyn Benson, Garland Gilchrist Chris Swanson, Mike Duggan, um John James, Eric Nesbitt, Tom Leonard, Anthony Hudson, we should shout out to the racist Republican that um sort of capitulated and said, Oh, I you know what, I guess you were right, Dearborn isn't Sharia law here, and it's okay. We don't need to even talk about Dearborn today, but related companies, um, you know, of course, the um developer of this data center with OpenAI um has a connection to um Justin Benson. Yes, as as her husband, Ryan Friedrichs, is the vice president of related companies.
SPEAKER_01:He is, and the president is Stephen Ross. Um, Stephen Ross of Ross Business Schools. Um, he is a big developer, a big name in our state, very powerful.
SPEAKER_05:And she um has assured her supporters who, you know, a lot of these folks are progressive Democrats that also say, get the hell out of here with your data center. Uh her husband Ryan Friedrichs, uh, this is according to Ben Salise of Michigan Advance, has said that he will recuse himself from state work on the data center if she is elected governor.
SPEAKER_01:Um what what what good would that do? I don't really understand. Um I'm not sure. I mean, you know, if you work for a company and somebody recuses themselves from certain aspects of that company, but that company is benefiting from that relationship. You can't you can't that there's certain conflicts that you simply cannot undo because they exist. Um and so I there's a Brian Friedrichs is not an unknown name in Detroit, though.
SPEAKER_05:No, because of course, you know, we know him from the Duggan years.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Um Benson and Duggan, who um, you know, politicos and Lansing say Benson is the front runner to win the Democratic nomination for governor. If she were to do that over Chris Swanson and Garland Gilchrist, she would face the Republican candidate and an independent Mike Duggan. Um Ryan worked for Mike Duggan. Uh, until what?
SPEAKER_01:Until Make Your Date.
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_01:There's a conflict in Make Your Date and this um belief that there was um steering of money from other um infant mortality prevention projects to Mike Duggan's girlfriend, now his wife. At the time was his girlfriend, now it's his wife. Um and so he stepped down from that. Now he's working with Stephen Ross. And I think it's um testimony or kind of illustrates how big money operates in our state, right? Because here you have possibly, I think the most ironic battle would be if you had Mike Cox running against Mike Duggan and Benson. And then Benson, because they all have political ties, even though they would be representing different um partisan groups, right? Duggan is like, well, I'm nonpartisan, I just happen to lean right, and maybe I'm left in some issues. Um, Benson would be representing the Democratic Party and Cox the Republican Party, but Duggan and Cox got started in McNamara's office. They are his proteges. And Ryan Friedrichs is also part of um his Duggins administration and Benson's husband. So um, yeah, it's interesting. And I think to some extent, that is why some people become cynical or check out of politics because there's there's two degrees of separation between all of these folks, and there's not a sense in any of these circles that anybody is representing the people.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. I mean, when you talk about DTE and why we keep um getting our bills increased every single year, well, you know, there is a a regulator body tasked with uh holding these companies accountable on behalf of residents, members of the Michigan public. It's called the Michigan Public Service Commission Service Commission. And uh it just got a new member. This person um was a former advisor to the governor, former chief of staff to uh Joe Tate, who has been criticized heavily by his opponents for taking corporate cash from utility companies. Myers, um, while she was uh Shaquila Myers is who I'm talking about, while she was chief of staff to uh Joe Tate, um Tate blocked multiple packages that would have um dealt with holding some of these energy companies accountable. Uh environmental policies that were opposed by Consumers Energy and DTE. Um she was appointed by the governor after uh Governor Whitmer declined to reappoint um a uh former member of the body who was um um you know reportedly championed by advocates. Right, so who was said that you know she was a champion for consumers. She is now the state's chief climate officer within uh Eagle. Right. And so no explanation was given. Um and of course, the state senate, who has the ability to hold um hearings on Whitmer's appointments, uh, they have not um done that. There was a Traverse City Democrat, Betsy Kofia, who wrote to Winnie Brinks asking her to do just this, saying that they should hold a advice and consent hearing into the Whitmer's appointment of Shaquila Myers. Uh that that did not happen.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Um but you know, DTE, they sell gas to over a million people across the state. I think, you know, does is it DTE or Consumers that has more customers? I'm not sure.
SPEAKER_01:I think DTE does, but I I'm not sure either. I know that um that that um consumers has a larger geography, but I think there's more concentrated people in the industry. And measure um, well, yeah, in whatever, however we define that.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, wherever DT bigger is, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:But um a couple of things to know. One, this is a priority of the Whitmer administration as well. Um she she's trying to bring jobs to the state, and this looks like jobs and economic investment, and governors get judged on do you bring jobs and economic investment? And so this would be a win for the governor in that respect.
SPEAKER_05:The data center, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:The data center would be.
SPEAKER_05:I mean, she's framing it as, and and Joe Tate used this language as well, the largest investment in the history of the state. Right.
SPEAKER_01:Um and so um when you have the pressure on politicians to deliver economic wins, economic wins often come at the expense of environmental justice. The interesting thing also about this is that's going in a community that is not necessarily seen as a most vulnerable community to economic injustice. St. Lane, Michigan is not a community that is, I don't believe it's predominantly black, I don't believe it's low income. No. And yet this is a community it's going into. And so I think two things the way we frame our conversations around environment have to be bigger than just. ethnicity and um and um income because you know sometimes they're looking for open land and if people are concerned about the data center and the impact of the data center on the the environment then we need to as a state come together a little bit more effectively um there are people there are politicians running for office who are opposed to all of this for example we have uh garland gilchrist who is increasingly aligned with the Democratic Socialists of America and the Working Families Party.
SPEAKER_05:You have Did you see his video with Jasmine Crackett?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah yeah that made waves what did you think of that you know I d he's he's trying to make a name for himself I think that what we really need to do what he really needs to do is be more clear and he came on our show and he was on our podcast he's brilliant and he needs to show people what his thoughts are um and you know there's no time like now I understand he is still lieutenant governor and as lieutenant governor there's only so many things he can say I think it's going to be really hard for him to run effectively as lieutenant governor it might make sense for him to step down for that post so that he can speak freely but that's just me. But you also but he is aligning himself and he is saying some things and he is supporting some things that you would not expect coming out of the governor's office right now. The other person of course is Abdul El Sayyid who's been getting a lot of endorsements. He's been um really making waves and he is a medical doctor. He's written books on Medicare for all he's a professor he's a former head of a health department and so if he is a senator representing our state you can believe that he will be speaking out on some of these in environmental justice causes. So I think if there's this move in our state where people are starting to think about things beyond counting jobs or counting economic investment and really looking at you know does this economic investment raise the income and viability of average Michiganders? I think that we are one of the poorest states. We have one of the lowest median incomes in the nation based on something that I read today. Did you see that?
SPEAKER_05:I mean think about all of the lawmakers who have you know been sitting in these seats telling you that they represent some of the poorest areas of the country and they've been in these seats for years while also saying I've brought however many X amount of dollars back to my district okay so you know what what's happening? Yeah where where's that money going I think folks especially when you talk about voter turnout I think Orlando Bailey um on local four in the clip that you saw I think kind of go viral on my Instagram really point out you know if people don't feel anything for their vote if you say oh you know vote, vote, vote, and then okay what did I get for that? And if you ask them to do it again and again and again they're gonna go insane.
SPEAKER_01:I think that you know I'm so proud of Orlando and you know he he just did an Act Truth of Power award at the East Ideavaganza well deserved because when he gets out there and he talks on TV news he says things that a lot of us wish would be said more often. Yeah. Most of the time you're just listening to people bash people for not voting without really doing a critical analysis of why democracy has become so unpopular in so many places because so many people don't believe it works. But we're seeing changes and we're seeing younger generations begin to take control of a lot of our political decision making and I hope it continues because um younger adults are not our future they're our now and if we really want to make this state this city this nation what it needs to be we're gonna need people who are um aware of the problems as they exist today and are willing to fight them and make changes because if you keep on doing the same old thing you're gonna keep on destroying our climate you're gonna keep on widening the income gap and things won't get better anytime soon.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah you're gonna keep on uh you know sort of trouncing on the democracy and that's sort of what the critics of this data center say is happening in Celine Township. The township rejected the proposal um the Oracle and related and and uh uh open AI yeah they sued the developers sued the township and think about this Celine Township Michigan right Washtenaw County versus Oracle open AI and related what do you think is gonna be the outcome of that of that lawsuit right and so they settled to proceed yeah they said to hell with your township board vote we're just gonna sue you and it happens all over the nation and we're not even aware of that um and we've tried to address it through a community benefits process in Detroit that is not very effective but there's gotta be a way that people have control over the uses of the environments that surround them um I wish we'll we'll we'll talk about more on this later we're gonna have to um cut this short um but thank you so much for listening to the Black Detroit Democracy podcast this has been a good conversation Sam yeah we should talk more about the data center stuff because again the DTE maybe we can bring on a guest can um can help excavate the issue we'll even I'm even willing to let DTE sit across that guest maybe that would be a great conversation you know they love to deploy folks in our community to represent them they do and I have friends I have friends who work for DTE.
SPEAKER_01:Sure um so um so I you know I don't dislike the people I just think that we have to look at the corporate behavior and I try to separate one from the other because we all have to have a job somewhere right anyway thank you so much for listening to the Black Detroit Democracy Podcast be sure to like rate and subscribe to our podcast and all platforms and of course support black independent reporting on Detroit1million dot com because good journalism costs
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