Authentically Detroit
Authentically Detroit is the leading podcast in the city for candid conversations, exchanging progressive ideas, and centering resident perspectives on current events.
Hosted by Donna Givens Davidson and Orlando P. Bailey.
Produced by Sarah Johnson and Engineered by Griffin Hutchings.
Check us out on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter @AuthenticallyDetroit!
Authentically Detroit
Art, Trust, And Listening To The Land with Augusta Morrison and Billy Mark
On this episode Donna and Orlando sat down with Sidewalk Detroit Program Director, Augusta Morrison and Earth Futures Fellow, Billy Mark to discuss the Echoes Soundmaps project and how they’re advancing public life through the lens of arts, culture, collaborative design and deep engagement with residents.
Sidewalk Detroit exists to advance public life and strong social infrastructure through the lens of arts, culture, collaborative design and deep engagement with residents. They practice an inclusive approach to creative city and neighborhood building that combines vision of residents, strategy, and artistic ideation to create engaging spaces, programs and experiences that improve communities across metro-detroit.
Echoes Soundmaps are created by placing audio files (voices, rhythms, poems, field recordings) onto specific zones on a digital map, like putting a pin on a google map, and then attaching/ uploading an audio file. Each zone can have its own shape, size, and behavior. These zones become invisible layers of sound over real places. When someone walks through the space with the echoes app, their phone’s gps triggers the audio in the zones they enter as they do the sound plays.
To learn more about Sidewalk Detroit, click here.
FOR HOT TAKES:
MICHIGAN OFFICIALS INSIST 2019 AUTO NO-FAULT LAW LOWERED CAR INSURANCE RATES. IT DIDN'T
PARAMOUNT LAUNCHES HOSTILE BID FOR WARNER BROS. DISCOVERY DESPITE NETFLIX DEAL
Up next, Authentically Detroit welcomes the program director for Sidewalk Detroit, Augusta Morrison, along with Earth Futures Fellow Billy Mark, to discuss how they're advancing public life and strong social infrastructure through the lens of arts, culture, collaborative design, and deep engagement with residents. But first, this week's hot takes from Michigan Public and NBC News. Michigan officials insist 2019 auto no-fault law lowered car insurance rate rates, it didn't. And Paramount launches a hostile bid for Warner Brothers Discovery, despite the Netflix deal. Keep it locked. Authentically Detroit starts after these messages. Interested in renting space for corporate events, meetings, conferences, social events, or resource fairs, the MASH Detroit Small Business Hub is a 6,000 square feet space available for members, residents, and businesses and organizations. To learn more about rental options at MASH Detroit, contact Nicole Perry at nperry at ecnetroit.org or 313-331-3485. Hey y'all, it's Orlando. We just want to let you know that the views and opinions expressed during this podcast episode are those of the co-hosts and guests and not their sponsoring institutions. Now, let's start the show. And I'm Donna Givens-Davidson. We're back again. Thank you for listening in and supporting our efforts to build a platform of authentic voices for real people in the city of Detroit. We want you to like, rate, and subscribe to our podcast on all platforms. Today, we have Augusta Morrison and Billy Mark of Sidewalk Detroit in the studio with us to talk about Echo's sound maps and their inclusive approach to cre to a creative city and neighborhood building. Augusta and Billy, welcome to Authentically Detroit.
Billy Mark:Pleasure to be here.
Orlando Bailey:And we also have our Vault Youth Voices participant, Kenneth, in the building. Kenneth, what's up?
Kenneth Russell:Nothing much. Glad to be out of school.
Orlando Bailey:Happy to have you. So everybody, Donna Givens Davidson, good to see you. How's the day finding you?
Donna Givens Davidson:Oh, busy, busy, busy, but good. Yeah. Good. Yeah, just working on a whole lot of meetings and um just celebrating my granddaughter's eighth birthday this week. Luna's eighth? I've been a grandmother for eight years. It was amazing. So Luna and Maverick were there, and we were at Kalahari. Oh, y'all were at Kalahari at the water park. At the water park, yes. Oh man, that's so much fun. Yeah, back to work today.
Orlando Bailey:Back to work. Back to life. Back to reality. Augusta, Billy, how's the day finding you both?
Augusta Morrison:Day is good. It's been kind of cold, so I've been having a heater next to me all day and keeping cozy.
Billy Mark:Been hibernating in the heat.
Augusta Morrison:I'm I'm I'm in it.
Billy Mark:I know that's right. Yeah, living a good, busy life too. Yeah. Yeah. Meeting, meeting, but just super happy to be here and having been conversation. Happy to have you.
Orlando Bailey:Kenneth, how you doing?
Kenneth Russell:I just want to get testing over with. Yeah. It's the anticipation. I need to get done with this testing so I can just lay back.
Orlando Bailey:I understand. All right. It's almost over. Hang in there. But it's not. Hang in there. All right, y'all, for hot takes. Michigan officials insist 2019 auto no fault law lowered car insurance rates. It didn't, says Tracy Samleton of Michigan Public. The Michigan Department of Insurance and Financial Services diffs says a new report shows the state's 2019 auto no-fault law lowered insurance rates for drivers and also decreased the number of uninsured drivers on the road. It's not true. The report by the consultant firm McMillan on the impact of the law shows that on average rates have increased by close to $200 from 2019 to 2024. It's in it's in its December 2nd press release, Diffs also misrepresented the report's findings on uninsured drivers, claiming the number had gone down. In fact, there are more uninsured drivers now than before the reforms were enacted. The report, requested by the Michigan legislature and commissioned by the state's Department of Insurance and Financial Services, said drivers had saved about $357 a year on average, largely based on one portion of car insurance premiums, the personal injury protection PIP portion. PIP pays for medical care for injuries the insured driver and passengers sustained in crashes. But those savings were essentially swallowed by sometimes double-digit rate increases approved by the Department of Insurance and Financial Services over the years. And while car insurance costs in Michigan did dip after the 2019 reforms, they soon began rising again, with 2024 the most expensive year the report measured. To arrive at its savings figure, the report relied on a series of assumptions about what would have happened to insurance rates if the 2019 auto no-fault law hadn't been enacted. Here's the quote: It is not possible to accurately measure the effects of the no-fault law by simply comparing actual average pre- and post-reform premiums because the period during which the reform was implemented and thereafter was heavily impacted by the COVID-19 pandemic, the report says. Doug Heller, a car insurance expert with the Consumer Federation of America, called the diff's statements a form of gaslighting. Here's what he said. When you have to make adjustments based on assumptions to prove your points, you might not have a good point, Heller said. Donna, what say you?
Donna Givens Davidson:Oh my goodness, I have so many things to say. Um, the first thing I want to say is follow the money. Anytime you uh want to look at why something happens, follow the money. Who was asking for auto insurance reform? Absolutely everybody. But who paid for the legislation that went forward? Who subsidized the campaigns or the folks who went forward? Largely the auto insurance industry. And I want to also make people make sure people remember that the now um new candidate for independent governor funded the campaigns for two people out of Detroit, put billboards up, and supported the the people to be elected to office with a goal of having them support the so-called reforms.
Orlando Bailey:Elected to the legislature.
Donna Givens Davidson:Yes, elected to the state legislature. Thank you for um clarifying that. Um he paid for that. One was Adam Ollier, and the other one was, I can't think of the other one who was Marshall Bullock, thank you. And so, you know, afterwards they all you know were very proud of it. But what this law did was it ended a Michigan unique unlimited lifetime medical medical benefits. It unlocked that and it says no longer you're gonna you're no longer gonna have that. And what insurers had claimed is the reason our insurance was so ridiculously high in our state is because of the unlimited lifetime limit. Well, you now you have options. You can pay for less lifetime insurance. We won't talk about the consequences for those people who are catastrophically in um injured in automobile active accidents, but the reality that our um insurance, the people who regulate insurance in our state need to be replaced by people who actually care about the citizens because it is a travesty that they looked at that report and twisted the meaning in order to justify what happened in the past. And again, as people are looking at gubernatorial candidates, look at the fact that we have one who advocated for this and who is prepared to gaslight us continuously and say that this somehow reform worked. It worked for insurers, but it sure didn't work for us.
Orlando Bailey:Well, I want to remind everybody that Outlier Media did a full investigation of why automotive insurance rates are so high back in August of 2024. Car insurance rates cost in Detroit at an average of $5,300 a year are too expensive for many in the city to afford. And the question is why? Auto theft and break-ins are certainly higher in Detroit than much of the state. But crime alone does not explain the city's dubious honor of having higher insurance rates than any other big city in the country. A nearly year-long investigation with the markup into the high cost of auto insurance in Detroit made clear how heavily insurers rely on location to set rates and how black Michiganders are saddled with the most expensive policies. This is despite a 2019 state law that banned companies from using zip codes to set rates in an attempt to fix the disparity. You could go to Outlier Media and look at this investigation. What it essentially found is that where areas black folks are most likely to live in high density urban areas within the state. And so in places like Detroit, in places like Saginaw, in places like Bitna Harbor, and places like Flint, you're going to see, you're going to see higher rates than any other places in the state. And so the the investigation to give away like the meat of it and the answer of it, it's racist policies that still contributing to high automotive insurance rates. Go ahead, Matt.
Donna Givens Davidson:You know where the most deaths, the most fatal car accidents are in rural places where black people don't live, right? I just want to um clarify the Michigan Chamber of Commerce PAC and the Super PAC together funded over $1.7 million to lawmakers who supported this. Um and that included the Michigan Insurance Coalition, the Auto Club Group, and Insurance Alliance of Michigan. Other major pro-reform caps included the Michigan Farm Bureau Pack, the Auto Club Pack of Michigan, and the Michigan Association of Insurance Agents PAC. They were motivated to end unlimited lifetime benefits for medical medical benefits. Who opposed it? The Michigan Health and Hospital Association, the Miss Michigan Association for Justice, and PACs tied to hospital systems, including Henry Ford, Friends of Spectrum Health, and Michigan Doctor's PAC. In other words, this was insurance against health care-serving institutions. And what they did was they demonized hospitals and blamed hospitals for high insurance rates. What we see now is that many people don't have access to adequate care after catastrophic injuries. And I believe in accountability. If you stand for something, if you say something is going to work and you push it that hard, then you also ought to own the errors.
Orlando Bailey:They're not owning it. And let me tell you, uh Well, I'm selling it. And I think I, you know, I think that I am gainfully employed. I hate having to pay auto insurance. It is still, it's a burden. You know, it and so for people who are able to drive legally in the city of Detroit, it is such a privilege because it is astronomical, even for somebody who makes a nice amount of money. It's insane.
Donna Givens Davidson:And so now we talk about the criminalization of black people. That part criminalization of poverty, but also blackness, because we know blackness is tied to high insurance rates. Um, the good thing about growing older is my rates have gotten very reasonable. So my bad. Well, they were supposed to go down at 26 years old. You know what? I'm 10 years from that. It gets good.
Orlando Bailey:It gets good. All right. Well, I will I hope to live long enough to see it. And you shall. I will. Uh for hot takes. Paramount launches a hostile bid for Warner Brothers Discovery, despite Netflix deal. This is by NBC News. Paramount is launching a hostile bid to acquire Warner Brothers Discovery after the company lost to Netflix in a high-stakes bidding war. The company announced Monday, setting the stage for a corporate drama worthy of quote-unquote succession. Paramount said it will offer $30 per share for the media conglomerate, which owns the Warner Brothers film studio, the cable channel HBO, the streaming service HBO Mac, and a portfolio of cable brands, including CNN. The bid comes after Netflix agreed last week to buy a large part of Warner Brothers, Discovery's studio, and streaming assets for 27.7 per share, $27.75 per share. Netflix's takeover would not include the Warner Brothers owned cable channels, which include CNN and TNT. The offer lays the groundwork what could become a public and contentious battle for Warner Brothers, a process that had already included appeals to President Donald Trump, who said he intends to play a role in any merger. Warner Brothers Discovery's board of directors has already approved its deal with Netflix for Paramount's move to go directly to shareholders, a maneuver known in the business world as a hostile bid, will push what have been private negotiations into the public realm. Paramount's bid for Warner Brothers Discovery is the latest head spinning twist in a saga that has riveted Hollywood, where film and television executives are growing increasingly uneasy about studio consolidation, contracting content spending, and the rise of generative artificial intelligence. In a news release, Paramount said its offer to Warner Brothers shareholders provides a superior alternative to the Netflix transaction, warning that a deal with the streaming giant risks entangling the studio in a complex regulatory process. Major corporate acquisitions are already complicated affairs. And when companies are willing to launch hostile bids and outbid each other, they can turn combative and litiguous. But the competition for Warner Brothers Discovery has been further complicated by Trump's political involvement. While such acquisitions are always subject to government regulatory approval, it is exceedingly rare for a president to take a public role in a private transaction. On Sunday, Trump said Netflix buying Warner Brothers could be an antitrust problem. He added that he will be involved in the approval process for that deal. Donna, what say you?
Donna Givens Davidson:Well, you know what I said when this was first announced? I said, well, I'm glad it's not Paramount. Um, and then it was Paramount. Oh my goodness. Right? Yeah. Remember that? Um because Paramount also seeks to make the news media more conservative. They have very strong intent. Um, so I say, was where's Elizabeth Warren where you need her? Remember when she was campaigning on the idea of breaking up these large monopolies? She ran a, she she released something today. She did. Oh, I'm about to get into that. She said um that a Paramount Sky Dance merger would be a five alarm antitrust fire and exactly what our anti-monopoly monopoly laws are written to prevent. Although laws don't matter anymore, according to the Supreme Court. But anyway, she criticized some of the funding for the Paramount bid while urging that it be reviewed independently of Trump influenced by the DOJ and the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States. Good luck on that. She said Paramount Skydance New Hospital is backed by a whose who of Trump buddies, from Jared Kushner's private equity firm to the Ellison family to money flowing from the Middle East raising scarcity. Ellison family. Ellison family. The Ellison family. These are the folks who have taken over CBS News. These folks don't have good intentions. Let's just be honest. Their intention is to further cheapen the news media. I don't watch television news, and I probably have not watched it for about 12 years. I will not watch it anymore. But I think my concern is those people who depend on television news to understand what's happening in the world and having their understanding further corrupted by people who are intending to mislead them. So when the Fox News is no longer the only phone news out there, this is propaganda. And the ability of propaganda is scary. So the only thing that can happen, I'm so proud to be part of a podcast and a podcast ecosystem that speaks independently of those controls. But the only thing that can happen is independent media arising somehow, you know, in the shadows, underground media that is seeking to fight back. It's kind of like those scary futuristic movies where people who tell the truth have to hide out and, you know, they all look like they are unfunded and, you know, living off the grid. Um, that's the way it's beginning to feel like because the intent is to control thinking, control politics in such a way that they will be able to increase their stranglehood on strength and the other. You say something so important.
Orlando Bailey:Control thinking. That is so important. And, you know, I had a lot to say about this in our uh our authentically Detroit group chat. First of all, I call it capitalism narcissistic, nasty, and violent. But the corporate consolidations, you know, creating these monopolies and eliminating competition always, almost always ends bad for the customer, the consumer, right? Uh everything is gonna cost a billion dollars.
Donna Givens Davidson:And and in this instance, it's bad for democracy. And it's bad for democracy. In this instance, it's bad for freedom. Yeah. In this instance, it's bad for any kind of progressive policies. They're already attacking our universities, they're attacking our um newspapers, and now this consolidation will mean that there's no other opportunity. I'm really, really stressed by this. And then also to read that the Supreme Court is also likely to rule, to expand Trump's power even further. Um, make no mistake, we are living in a man monarchy. And it makes me think of the fact that this is not something that we we watch this Supreme Court stuff on, you know, be unveiled every week. And it's like, how are they gonna rule right now? Is though somehow people are not getting together off-screen and having conversations about the best way to change America, to reintroduce white supremacy as law of the land and to, you know, to further marginalize everybody else. It's scary.
Orlando Bailey:It is, it is scary, and I think that this is not the time for us to put our heads under the pillow and not pay attention.
Donna Givens Davidson:But I'm not watching the news. I'm not saying that.
Orlando Bailey:I'm not saying that you gotta watch uh television news, but I am saying that we need to be paying attention to these mergers, to what's happening in within the corporate infrastructure, these markets, and how the president is playing a very active role. This is unprecedented.
Donna Givens Davidson:It's unprecedented. It is unprecedented. Although I think that if we go back in history, McCarthyism was a really bad time.
Orlando Bailey:It was a bad time.
Donna Givens Davidson:Um we've had really bad moments in our history. This this nation does not have clean, clean hands going all the way back to its foundation when we just decide to annihilate a whole people. But I think that the challenge is um you know, when you watch the news, this is why I don't watch television news because they're obviously brainwashing you the same topic over and over. It doesn't matter which station. When you come back, we're gonna say the same thing we said before, and we're gonna get somebody else to say it. We're gonna get another talking head to make our point. Now we have a panel of talking heads all making the same point and narrowing the news focus to so many small things that we have conversations about whether or not Michelle Obama should wear sleeveless dresses. I ask them to have conversations about whether or not she should wear sleeveless dresses or whether or not it's Racist to say she should wear sleeveless dresses and the color of Barack Obama's tan suit. That's what drove me out of television news because it was just inane. We have real issues, real problems, and real opportunities. Hopefully, more people will be driven away from television news. I keep telling people, you know, just just go cold turkey. Be surprised. When I Kevin and I started dating my current husband, we've been married for five years, but together for seven years.
Orlando Bailey:Your husband, not your current girlfriend yoga.
Donna Givens Davidson:Okay, that sounds bad. All right, that sounds bad. But he's he's the only one. He's the best, right? He's wonderful. But we first started dating. Oh, Kevin, don't I apologize, baby. Because he listens to authentically to Troy. I'm gonna have to explain this. I'm gonna have to explain this. Oh my goodness. Anyway, we started dating and he watched CNN all the time. Yeah. And I was like, I cannot sit in the room with you when you watch CNN. And I'm proud to say neither of us watch it anymore. Sometimes he sneaks when I'm gone.
Orlando Bailey:Yeah.
Donna Givens Davidson:But it's it it frees you up emotionally. Let's let all of this go because we know what their intentions are.
Orlando Bailey:Yeah, I haven't now. To your point, Donna, I don't think I've watched cable news in years, probably about the same amount of time as you. But I have I happen to be a fan of Gail King and the CBS mornings crew. So I like to watch. That's the only bit of, and you know this. I've said this for years. That's the only bit of television.
Donna Givens Davidson:You know, she went up on that rocket ship. She did.
Orlando Bailey:She lost me on that one.
Donna Givens Davidson:She lost me before that, but go on.
Orlando Bailey:Uh what I will what I will say, the question that I have for you, because earlier you talked about hitting 60, so that means that you are 60 and above. Have you seen, have you lived through a time like the one that we're living in now? Because you talked about McCarthyism, but a lot of us weren't there.
Donna Givens Davidson:No, I wasn't, I wasn't there. I just learned about it in school. Um, I just know there was a red scare that was just prior to my sister. Used to have to prep, my older sister used to have to practice, you know, hiding under desk for when the commies dropped bombs or whatever. Um I right, you know, when I was a kid, you had the Cuban Missile Crisis, you had these other manufacture crises, but what I lived through was the Vietnam War.
Orlando Bailey:Yeah.
Donna Givens Davidson:And that alone should tell you it's crazy. We were literally, it was on TV, it was a televised war watching people burning with napalm running down the street, and it was on TV, and you're watching the coffins go onto the planes. Nobody really ever explained the Vietnam War. It was a crazy war to begin with. Why are we in the world?
Orlando Bailey:I guess my question, just to ask it more pointerly, the Vietnam War did not present or did it, you can tell me, the constitutional and judicial crisis that we're seeing right now.
Donna Givens Davidson:It absolutely did. It absolutely did. Let me say this: the Vietnam War, you were drafted to fight a war. Remember, Muhammad Ali was drafted, he was um taken to court. Um, there was all kinds of um dishonesty going on, um, and a lot of that has been exposed through um so many books. The Pentagon Papers and other places where they look and see how there was absolutely Pentagon Papers that there's no way to win.
Orlando Bailey:There's no way to win.
Donna Givens Davidson:But there's just all of the stuff that went on to deceive the American public. There was no reason for us to be in Vietnam other than, you know, capitalism, killing off a whole d destroying a whole nation. People look at and they say, I can't believe the United States supports genocide. And I'm like, what the hell do you think happened in Cambodia and in Vietnam? We have supported genocide in so many ways and so many places. My parents met during the Korean War. You know, that my father joined the Air Force like so many people's to avoid being drafted into Korea where you'd have to actually go to battle. It's a long history, and this is a really bad inflection point, but I refuse to believe that this is the end.
Billy Mark:If you don't want to be brainwashed through the news, um watching the news online, but you also don't want to stick your head in the sand and pretend that nothing's happening, like what do you suggest for people to do?
Donna Givens Davidson:Local news, hyperlocal. I I um read.
Billy Mark:Yeah.
Donna Givens Davidson:Um if I read it, then I can stop reading it. I don't read it every two minutes. You know, I can decide I'm gonna read it one time and I get my information, I move on to other things. Um you don't just have to read local news. There's so many I think.
Orlando Bailey:Although you should become a member at Outlier Media.org. You should.
Donna Givens Davidson:Outlier media, outlier media. I love outlier media. I love Bridge Detroit. I get I read those every single day. I open up, that's one of the first things I do. But I also um try to read international news. Um now that you can translate things, it's always helpful to get a world perspective on things. So I think that reading is our superpower. It is something that we control. And um I think social media used to seem like it was safe, but now social media has been contaminated. It's also dangerous. If you see a headline, read what's behind the headline. Ask yourself, is this reasonable? Verify that it's true.
Orlando Bailey:And read who the news source is, because there are a lot of headlines that are not backed by reputable news sources.
Donna Givens Davidson:And mind you, local media is not always reliable. That's right. Because local media helped lead us into Detroit's bankruptcy without giving the full story, helped support the school takeovers without telling the full story. So I just think that we have a responsibility to talk to each other, read a lot, um, listen to, you know, independent media. Listen to authentically Detroit. Listen to authentically Detroit and other independent media, right? Absolutely. Um, and I consider that, you know, I'm not a journalist in the traditional sense of a journalist. I'm more like a citizen journalist, which means I can give opinions in ways that a real journalist cannot, but or professional journalists, I'll say, cannot. But I think also there's so many people who have opinions who um can who inform my understanding of the world. And that's why I'm excited to talk to you all today.
Orlando Bailey:Yeah. Also, this was not included in hot takes, but this is, you know, brand spaking news. So over the weekend there was a lot of speculation that Mayor elect Mary Sheffield had tied the knot. Um, and I officially received word this morning from her comms team. Mayor elect Mary Sheffield and her fiance, Ricky Jackson Jr., exchanged vows in a private ceremony over the weekend in Detroit. They are thrilled to begin their new life together while continuing their shared commitment to serving the city of Detroit. Here's their quote: We are incredibly grateful for all of the love, prayers, and well-wishes we've received during this special moment in our lives.
Donna Givens Davidson:I could not be happier for her.
Orlando Bailey:Yeah.
Donna Givens Davidson:And not just because she's married, because you know, marriage isn't for everybody. And again, you know, I'm very, very happily married now, but I've also been very unhappily married. But when you look at the pictures of them, they seem joyful together. Yeah. When you look in his eyes, he seems like a good person. Yeah. And she just has a look on her face that you rarely see on her face. So it just made me happy to see her in love with somebody who was looking at love with her back because she has a really hard job ahead of her.
Orlando Bailey:Yeah.
Donna Givens Davidson:And I also read something where she said that he did not play a role in her campaign. He just helped her withstand some of the scrutiny and stuff that she was going against. That's an important role that somebody who loves you can play. It's not always your cheerleader, not somebody playing a tactical role, but somebody just loving you enough that you can go out there and fight another day.
Orlando Bailey:Yeah, yeah. So I wanted to make sure I said that I had posted uh something on Facebook earlier, uh, because there is a lot of uh to your point, Don, a lot of uh local news outlets reporting reportedly uh saying that she was married, but it was unsourced and unverified.
Donna Givens Davidson:And they posted her engagement photos. Posted her engagement photo. Like she probably did not wear a red dress to her wedding. Yeah, it was just weird. I haven't seen a wedding photo, but I'm guessing it was not a red dress, but those are beautiful engagement photos.
Orlando Bailey:If you read it, uh Mary Alex Sheffield, if you're trying to uh you know give an exclusive of the wedding photos to a news outlet, you can give them an outlier. Thank you. Uh we're gonna take a quick break. We will be right back. Have you ever dreamed of being on the airwaves? Well, the Authentically Detroit Podcast Network is here to make those dreams come true. Formerly known as the Deep Network and located inside the Stotomer, the Authentically Detroit Podcast Network are for studio space and production staff to help get your idea off of the ground. Just visit authenticallydet.com and send a request through the contact page. Augusta Morrison is a cultural producer, community organizer, and musician. As program director at SciWalk Detroit, Augusta employs a grassroots and emergent strategy approach. Come on, come on, Adrian Marie Brown, to foster meaningful connections between artists and communities. At SciWalk Detroit, Augusta collaborates closely with each team member to ensure program efficacy, efficiency, and advancement. They also lead efforts to organize community and artistic-specific engagements and support curatorial work influencing the organization's artistic direction. Billy Mark is an interdisciplinary artist who lives and works in Detroit. He's married to fiber artist Sarah Mark. His areas of exploration lately have been embodied poetics, experimental liturgies, and site-specific music and poetry. Billy and Augusta, we're so happy to have y'all with us.
Augusta Morrison:Adrian Marie Brown. Tell us about it. Well, we've been working on the emergence strategy approach for, I would say it's probably since it's since Sidewalk Detroit's beginning.
Orlando Bailey:Get a little closer to the mic. Yeah.
Augusta Morrison:Since Sidewalk Detroit's beginning, and we have to think small. And one of I love one of Adrian Marie Brown's quotes is you go up, excuse me, one mile deep and one inch wide. So our approach to the ways we work with artists, the ways we work with community, how we're building out any project is we have to go deep and we have to really make our relationships authentic. We have to work really slowly, we have to build trust. And if you don't have trust, you're not going anywhere.
Orlando Bailey:Can you sort of make plain um this practice and how this practice of emergence, right? An emergent strategy shows up. Like what, you know, make it plain for people. What is it? Because people hear it and it's like, what does that mean?
Augusta Morrison:What does that mean, emergence? Um I feel like it is It's working with people that are I guess it's it's staying true to your mission and your vision and your values. Um it is moving at the speed of trust. So if something doesn't feel right, you have to really check yourself and check who you're working with. And if the if that isn't feeling good, you have to pivot. Um you have to check in with your coworkers, you have to check in with you know who is part of your community, and you kind of have to ask yourself, um, am I doing, am I moving in the right direction? Um and you also may be versed in emergent strategy, so feel free to jump in. No, you got it. Feel free to jump in. Um and I feel like it is um, you know, the emergent strategy approach and and you know, thinking about Adrian Marie Brown and the ways that we um kind of move through all the different kind of avenues, whether we're working in Detroit or we're working outside of the city, we're always I feel like checking in with each other and um I guess making sure that that we're doing the right work and our our mission, um we are we're working around equity, we are working around access and accessibility. Um we are at the forefront, we are highlighting our our friends and our neighbors of color, our friends and our neighbors that have disabilities. Um we are we are educating ourselves around ideas that we may not be familiar or comfortable with. We are leaning into that discomfort. Um, and yeah, I think I feel like we're constantly kind of checking ourselves.
Donna Givens Davidson:I can't think of a more important time to have an emergence strategy than a time such as this, where every day you're met with something new and nobody really knows what's gonna happen next month, month. We're all predicting. Can you talk about how the emergence strategies, how you are using emergent strategies to adapt right now?
Augusta Morrison:Yeah, I think one thing that we're working on at our organization is around land acknowledgement and action steps. So we recently have um we're working with the Huawei Autanang Arts Council and we developed a land acknowledgement, but it's just not about saying, you know, I acknowledge that I am on Wawi Autanang, you know, an Anashnabe land. It is what are the action steps that you're taking to um actually pay your reparations? And it is working with indigenous people, it is bringing indigenous people into your programming. So we have a whole kind of list of um action steps that we're implementing into our programming. We're educating our staff, we're we we're starting a book club. I think it's just like we we have to walk, we have to walk the walk the talk, talk walk.
Donna Givens Davidson:Land acknowledgements frequently really irritate the crap out of me. I'd have to be really honest with you. Um you're standing in land that was, you know, belong to indigenous people. You have no intentions of sharing any resource or power with them. You just thank you for giving me your stuff. It's like I steal your your car and I acknowledge it's yours while you're riding in it. And there's something wrong with that. So I love the fact, and I was at an event in, I want to say San Diego last year, where the land acknowledgement was followed with an action step. And it was led by uh an Indigenous person. Yeah, and so it made a lot of sense that she was saying, don't just say this is yours, because it's really not anymore. Um okay, so but it, you know, right now, in addition to that, right now, we don't know what's going to happen with anything in our nation. We don't know whether or not the elections or whether there's gonna be, you know, military police in Detroit next week. We don't know whether housing, as we know it, is going to be discontinued. We just don't know. Can you talk about emergent practices in the context of not knowing for people who sometimes feel paralyzed?
Augusta Morrison:Yeah, so I feel like some of the things we're doing, and I feel like it is kind of from this very artistic approach, is we're working with our artists and working with whoever's kind of coming to our events, and we're thinking about what kind of resources, resources, or tools can we give them during our programming to make them smarter, more resilient, um, more resourceful. So, like if that um if a major climate disaster is coming, and say let's say it's flooding, how what are we doing to protect our neighbors so that they know exactly what to do? With our less equal artists and residents focusing all on stormwater and flooding, we went through almost a year-long process and we're continuing to do this, um, trying to understand when my basement floods, does this is the city there to help me? Um if the city's not there, is the is the federal government there to help me? If they're not there, what can I do to help protect myself? So we're trying to understand what do we know, what don't we know, what resources are resources are available, and what are some of those DIY, almost like cheap practices that we can do to kind of start protecting ourselves. Um we're also thinking about like we started um a campout in Eliza Howell Park, and now we're just kind of in some ways um training kids to like how to be outdoors safely, but like fire safety, um, how to how to set up a tent, how to cook your own food. So just like really kind of simple, um in some ways, some simple things, but just like how to, yeah, I want to say like how to protect ourselves when these disasters strike. How are we prepared? So we're kind of thinking some things around preparedness. And um I talk about kind of our artistic or creative approaches, but we can do this a lot through programming and making them free and accessible. So we are stewards of Eliza Howell Park and we utilize that space to do a lot of um events, and that's where Billy and our Earth Future Fellowship, which focused on working with artists that already have an emergent strategy approach, are working in communities and kind of are wanting to embed their creativity into kind of the social fabric of our neighborhoods and are working around environmental justice. And all of the fellows had really beautiful avenues to kind of approach that work through music, installation, dance, and um literary works.
Orlando Bailey:Billy, talk about how that work is going and what it looks like.
Billy Mark:Ooh. Um can I will. Can I just fan out for a little bit on Sidewalk? Just because it's we love Sidewalk. And the emergent strategies that you guys are talking about. Like one thing, basically, the work that we're doing is kind of set within what SciWalk's doing and set within this emergent strategies. One thing that I've really appreciated is this idea of the fractal, so that something that happens on a really small um dimension is also that same pattern is also happening on a really large dimension, right? And so I think that that, like when you're talking about like we're now facing um uh times in which things are changing dramatically, and we're not quite sure what's gonna happen next. And the arts are um a beautiful way to ask some of those questions and put those into practice. And the like the container that Sidewalk has provided for so many people for so long is to allow this space where where that kind of something that happens on a small scale can also happen on a big scale, too. And so we can think through some of these ideas. Yes. I just really enjoyed just hearing where you know all of the rapid fire information. I was like drinking from a hose. I was my question was legitimate. Like, where what do I do then? Where do I get this information from? um we do move pretty quickly don't we take and so to be yeah so to to start to work in a in a place that um is emergent and where we can investigate and when we can feel like we have resources um that are innate in us and that we do have what we need right here in each other and in ourselves and in this in this trust and I keep saying that like trust is the new gold because like what are you gonna do without it you need to find a way to cultivate it because it's in scarce resource right so to be uh to to to be in a space where these new ideas can emerge and to be like no it's it's not just a little small cute art idea and you know but what no it actually is important in part of the community.
Donna Givens Davidson:Absolutely you know I think of the proverb without vision the people perish and what is vision without art you know art it gives you that vision and a lot of times we look at art as something that's separate from you know protest something separate from the real world my mom was an artist my husband's an artist I revere art and you know because I it's it's where you see something that you can't see. And so not only using art can you help people understand social problems or the existing conditions but you can also visualize change. And so yeah can you talk about how as artists you're doing that within the Eliza Howell Park what are you doing that really helps people understand the current condition and what are you doing to help people imagine a future state such a great question.
Billy Mark:Oh man such a great question yeah so Eliza Howell Park is a park that people overlooked for a long time and Sidewalk had the vision to be able to say no no no we see something here we see something creative we see something natural we see uh that that place itself is a power um and so when we overlook that we we perish right and so so that container of being invited into this uh to that space um what have we been doing with that well first of all I love that as an artist I love to come into a place where the where folks are clear and they have a direction and they're like yo here's um here's a here's a prompt go wild and and so we were invited to Eliza Howell Park uh to really what wound up happening is to have our ecological imaginations expanded right ecological imaginations yes have you been in Eliza Howell Park yeah the yeah oh I mean I I used to work at the Brighton Moore community center when before Eliza Howe Park was really really doing before sidewalk to trade I'll say yeah and I've and so like to yeah to come to to come to a place where uh to make work in that space is is really is really hard environment art ecology all of the things just sort of beautifully colliding yeah together yeah and to and to do work where stuff that we've been doing is uh with sound maps and with sound and basically we've been invited to listen to the environment and to create music from that experience of listening and so again it's um yeah a place where we may not have it yeah it may not how do I say it yeah it was just it's just great to be able to listen to something and then make something from that as well. Can you just share exactly like what the project what what what someone would experience um like being immersed in in in echoes and absolutely so the the project that we did um I did it with uh Natalie Gallagher and a group of of uh Detroit sound mappers we created how many how many uh how many acres is that part 250 okay 250 acres so the fourth largest park in Detroit so the experience of that is now when you go into Eliza Howell Park you can put on your headphones and you can take out this platform it's an app called echoes.xyz and you as you walk through the park music will open up around you text will open up around you because your app is using a GPS and to to walk through a map that some creators have created by putting circles and polygons and attaching audio files to those areas those zones on a map so one side is the creators who are creating this map of compositions that you can walk through and then the other half is the other side of it is the the way that people can walk through it and experience it. We talk about it's like a podcast you can walk through it's a poem you can walk through it's place-based music it's place-based um text so that when you create so imagine having like Google Maps but we don't use Google Maps but imagine taking that drawing a circle around that tree where that tree is located and then you put uh a piece of music that you have created so that when people hear that they're not gonna be able to hear it online they're not gonna be able to hear it anywhere else just next to that tree so that people can have an experience with um yeah with music and text and that's one of the ways in which we were we were um we as as uh the the composers that we basically listened to the land and we started composing where the trees are and where they aren't we really had a great relationship with it.
Kenneth Russell:So Mr. Billy I have a question for you so how often does like the app updates for the art pieces?
Billy Mark:Oh that's a great question um well it updates whenever we whenever the the people who are making a specific map whenever we add something to it then it updates and that's a great really great question because what we wanted with this one is to make a living archive of something that wasn't just set it and forget it but it can be updated it can be added to it can be opened so that people in the future can do stuff.
Kenneth Russell:So like do y'all like for specific locations do y'all have the old information from a previous art piece to have a newer art piece or y'all just keep changing them for each area?
Billy Mark:Well we have one for the whole because this Liza Hollows parks this big place and so we worked with uh five different composers to kind of work together to create zones. And you don't necessarily take down your exhibits they are standing exhibits right so they are since they're on the app it's basically invisible so you can just walk through it anytime you wouldn't be able to see it right if there wasn't uh if there wasn't uh if you didn't have your app on so we and we really love that the the power of invisibility and so that yeah once you go out you click on that map it'll show you it'll open it up and you'll see your little you know see your little uh like a little marker of where you are and you'll see all these beautiful teal circles and polygons and shapes and you you walk closer to it and you're like oh it's not working yet I don't think this is gonna work is this really gonna work you walk into it and all of a sudden you start to hear music you start to hear people who have uh lived there before and hear interviews oral history come on so we've we've taken this and so what you're saying is like so we worked with that app and that place but we also use that app to do other things in other places and I'd highly encourage it one thing is we uh Miss Gloria on our block uh there was a vacant lot where her house no longer was and a bunch of people on that block really wanted to know more about the history of their of their neighborhood and so we all got together like 20 folks 20 20 people we we put up the microphone uh of course it was a should I go yeah it was a 3D microphone I won't go to it gets wild we put up a microphone in between in tweet and everybody and she talked about her house and the block and we took that recording hour long recording and set it on its own map so that when you go there you can just open up that map walk there and then listen to the history.
Donna Givens Davidson:So you know art you know is obviously everybody's gonna get something different out of art right because we're all unique but I'm wondering what your intended impact is with this kind of exhibit because it's so unusual it's not what you usually think of when you think of art. What are you hoping for people to get out of it?
Billy Mark:Man I love great it's such an immersive experience it sounds like yeah like the the immersion of it right um yeah so one thing is um it's just a different relationship with the invisible like there's people inside of all these houses especially when you look at maps right um music itself is invisible it's just really powerful experiences that we have and so to to put on headphones and use the power of sound to create layers that we can walk through and experience hopefully that adds to our daily life experience when we walk just in general knowing that there are all these all these beautiful things that are connecting so connections to the universe sure past and present and the unseen things that may be right there and you can't connect to is like this awareness that it's bigger than you. Absolutely and to into each other right stories that stories in places and I think the second one just because it's a really great question the second one is that we're uh you were talking about how we can be sometimes force fed by news and then you also shifted to the second hot topic which was Netflix we can be force fed creativity as well of not just how to think but how to think and feel through the arts but to feel a sense of like when people put on headphones and like they like you can walk anywhere in that park. And where you walk is its own piece and it's nobody else walks that way and is going to experience the same art piece. So to have a sense of like agency and where how our bodies move and how where we go creativity follows us.
Donna Givens Davidson:Like that's that's something I used to walk in a park a lot you know especially um when I was younger um there was a park near my house and I'd go walking there and was just by myself and I'd listen to a book or something like that but I'm just trying to envision walking through Eliza Howe Park with my headphones on and really getting that same kind of release into the world because there's something about walking in nature and looking at trees I've always enjoyed I'm trying to imagine that and it sounds amazing. So now I have to go there.
Augusta Morrison:Yeah how how have you guys observed uh community reception uh to this installation and um observe them interacting with it right well the first is is a question like people are continually trying to understand like wait how does this work like what's going on and then there will be a small tutorial like you download the app and it's like okay okay but then when they actually walk through it wonder wonder that was what was coming to my mind too and we had our kind of like celebration in early October beautiful warm day and I think yeah that wonder and I put the headphones on and I was having my technical difficulties and then I got in I was like wow and it really kind of I feel like there was a tuning in to my body and also to the space so I think it really helped I think it allows someone to kind of just like focus and really be present in that moment and kind of the distractions from all of that all of those hot takes that you know all of that news that's kind of coming or whatever is going on in your world um I think that just being really present and healing. I think when you're able to kind of tune into your body tune into the to the earth and ground yourself healing and I think that is being out in nature and being in the parks and that is one of the things that this fellowship has I feel like offer and what we try to do through our art is offer a sense of healing and um I think that was one of the the to be accepted the fellowship was an application process. So Billy's when Billy presented his work I was just like this is exactly I feel like what the park needs and we do a lot of tuning into um you know what people are interested in what they want to see at at the park and the types of programming and this is something that I felt like um really represented what people were interested in. So it and it it will stay there. It's not something we can take you know it's not going to be taken down so it'll be there.
Donna Givens Davidson:Yeah. You know I think about the conversations we were having earlier also you know the anxiety that we feel in light of so much. And you know sometimes we can give too much importance to things and it kind of seems like it helps to balance it out and remind you that there's something bigger than all of us.
Orlando Bailey:It gives you the invitation to do that. Because some of us need that invitation.
Donna Givens Davidson:Me like my I'm my mind is always going always going always going and that's the reason I loved walking because it kind of takes me out of myself and I'm imagining that people have never needed to get away from themselves more than more than that. Because you know even if you don't even if you're just reading the news and getting the truth the truth can be a lot and then there's the truth and there's the larger truth that this too shall pass. And sometimes it's really hard to get there because we're so stuck in that moment that we you know I'm not saying who cares but I'm saying there's things we can't control at all and there's things we can control. And so I imagine for me when I go there and I will because I'm really excited about these possibilities that sense of balance that you get from being in that space. And it's amazing that it's in Detroit because a lot of times we feel like we have to leave the city to get to places like that.
Augusta Morrison:Can you talk about the significance of having a project like this right in our community yeah I mean I feel like because it's there to stay a little closer to the mic sorry um because the project is there to stay it has a sustainable component to it. And at the park we put in new signs and wayfinding signs. So there's already we're already starting to tell the story in the history of Eliza Howell Park and now we have this musical composition that is also telling a story in a history of Eliza Howell Park that to me feels like we are um making the park feel inviting, warm, there's something interesting that you can see there's something interesting that you can hear there's the amazing birds and the bees and all of that that's there, but there's another added element that is in some ways kind of a little bit different and radical and that is one of the things I feel like that makes Eliza Hell Park interesting is this artistic layer that is starting to kind of weave through the paths. And as you're walking it's like you can tune into the to these original pieces that you can't really find at other parks.
Orlando Bailey:Yeah.
Donna Givens Davidson:Hey you go ahead I was just wondering about you know because you have we Chandler Park is in our community and you have a soccer I mean you have now a a field house and you have tennis courts and you know volleyball and basketball and of course escape park and then you have you know Belle Isle with everything you know the tour down the zoo I missed the Bell Isle Zoo.
Augusta Morrison:Palmer Park has its things what makes Eliza Howell Park unique in comparison to those other parks a lot of it is it's it hasn't been built up it has a natural beauty it has a lot of um native species have come back in the last couple years because we've been do doing native rehabilitation um building out um retention ponds so we've literally documented and seen these animals come back frogs snakes all different snakes yes all the different types of birds turtles um we have there's a blog that is dedicated to all of the animals that have come back to Eliza Hell Park you can check it out I think it's just Elizahellparkblog.com okay I got one more thing to say before we get to our shout out um from what I've hear from what I'm hearing about the park it's like it's very significant into the community and I'm now I'm questioning about how the people feel in the community on how they see the park and the information that they're consuming from it and then the artist who's making these pieces for people to see and how they consume their information and outputting it to the people around them in this park. Yeah that's that's a really great great question Kenneth and one of the one of our I would say components of our work is the way we engage with community. So we've been working with the Brightmore community since we started working in the park in 2016. We are now in our second framework plan we have an Eliza Hellpark advisory group we're working on developing and and solidifying but they there are people that have been with us almost over the last decade. So anytime an artist or a program is being developed we have a group of people that were like hey this is what we're thinking about what do you think anytime an installation is this is the first draft how does that look does this make sense so there are people that we're checking in with and that's what I was talking about that emergent strategy. It's like all about trust and relationship building so we have a very good relationship with the community of Brightmore and there's you know several individual individuals that have really kept us informed if there's any issues or challenges.
Orlando Bailey:I also want to say that you can still experience I know it's winter but I got like friends who love being outside now in the wintertime. It's weird. And so if you're one of those people like my friend Sarita Scott likes to go on uh jogs and power walks in the morning no matter what the weather is go to Eliza How Park you can still see uh the app and hear all the installations and the the the sound maps that's what it is the sound map it sounds really cool I gotta see this I have to do this yeah I'll do it in the spring though yeah exactly I'm a warm weather person I'll do it in the spring not hot weather person but a little warmer than this warmer than this listen if you have topics that you want to discuss on authentically Detroit you can hit us up on our socials at authentically detroit on Facebook Instagram and Twitter or you can email us at authenticetroit at gmail.com it is time for shout outs Donna Kenna Billy Augusta y'all have shout outs I do I want to shout out the members of the housing development and planning um committee for the Rise Hire project for the mayor um and the transition um we have meetings uh and people keep coming I apologize almost every day but there's a lot of work to be done and I'm just really proud of the commitment that Detroit residents who are members of this committee are making to ensure that we have a better Detroit moving forward.
Donna Givens Davidson:Congratulations you are chairing that committee right I am co-chairing that committee yeah congrats yeah that's the reason why I keep on getting people and you know um Darnell Adams I want to shout out Darnell who has not he just came in and he has this amazing vision and some of the work that he's doing at the Gilbert Family Foundation is amazing. It's always wild when you think that you have an idea and it's a new idea and you find out somebody is not only doing it but doing it well and that's my relationship to Darnell Adams who just does such great work.
Kenneth Russell:Yeah Kenneth you have any shout outs my shout outs to all the artists at the parks and you guys as well for coming here to be a part of the podcast and I'm gonna try and get my school to come to that park because it sounds amazing.
Augusta Morrison:Kenneth let's talk we can work on that.
Kenneth Russell:Okay.
Augusta Morrison:I guess do you have any shout out uh I'll give a shout out to my dog Seaweed Ah what a name I love a name and I guess just to my team you guys are so great and uh love you.
Billy Mark:Yeah and I'd like to give a shout out to all of the composers who work together on the Yeah, because you know, I get to hear, I get to come here and talk about it, but it really was a collective process. So Natalie Gallagher, Cy Tulip, Na Banzai, and Zachariah El Margabell, they just worked with over the course of a few months and created something really spectacular. So shout out to them. I can't wait to experience it.
Orlando Bailey:All right, y'all. That's gonna do it for us. We thank you so much for listening. And until next time, love on your neighbor.
unknown:I think I'm burned on real. I just forgot.
Podcasts we love
Check out these other fine podcasts recommended by us, not an algorithm.
