Authentically Detroit
Authentically Detroit is the leading podcast in the city for candid conversations, exchanging progressive ideas, and centering resident perspectives on current events.
Hosted by Donna Givens Davidson and Sam Robinson.
Produced by Sarah Johnson and Engineered by Griffin Hutchings.
Check us out on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter @AuthenticallyDetroit!
Authentically Detroit
Orlando’s Farewell and 482Forward with Molly Sweeney
On this episode, Donna and Orlando reflect on their evolution since starting the podcast in 2019 as Orlando bids farewell to Authentically Detroit. Together they look at how time sharpens politics and encourage Detroiters to keep showing up and building power where it matters.
They also sat down with the Co-Founder and Executive Director of 482Forward to discuss how their work helps Detroiters to become fully engaged participants in efforts to change Detroit for the better. 482Forward grew out of trial by fire. Many of the founding organizations had previous relationships and shared work in Detroit, but came together for a special purpose– to create the 482Forward network.
Molly Sweeney and Jamila Martin, founding co-directors, convened a roundtable of community-based partners at Excellent Schools Detroit who were interested in engaging in education organizing in their neighborhoods.
Together, they are creating a Detroit where every student graduates ready to become a fully engaged participant in the world, equipped with the character and the capacity to negotiate her environment and change it for the better.
Sign up to gather signatures and join Love Beats Greed actions here.
FOR HOT TAKES:
Up next, Authentically Detroit welcomes Molly Sweeney, co-founder and executive director of 482 Forward, to discuss their work encouraging Detroiters to become fully engaged participants in the efforts to change our city for the better. But first, this week's hot takes from Authentically Detroit and the Michigan Chronicle. Orlando's farewell to Authentically Detroit and James Tate, selected as Detroit City Council President. Keep it locked. Authentically Detroit starts after these messages. Have you ever dreamed of being on the airwaves? Well, the Authentically Detroit Podcast Network is here to make those dreams come true. Formerly known as the Deep Network and located inside the Stotemeyer, the Authentically Detroit Podcast Network are for studio space and production staff to help get your idea off of the ground. Just visit authentically DET.com and send a request through the contact page. Now, let's start the show.
Donna Givens Davidson:And I'm Donna Givens-Davidson.
Orlando Bailey:Thank you for listening in and supporting our efforts to build a platform of authentic voices for real people in the city of Detroit. We want you to like, rate, and subscribe to our podcasts on all platforms. And you heard that right. Today is my final day co-hosting Authentically Detroit. And to send me off, we're going to take a look down memory lane and our evolution since starting this platform in 2019. We're also honored to have the co-founder and executive director of 482 Forward, Molly Sweeney, in the building to discuss how Detroiters can work together to build a brighter future. Molly, welcome to Authentically Detroit.
SPEAKER_03:Thank you.
Orlando Bailey:Is this your first time with us? I'm like, I was thinking, like during the intro, I'm like, have we had Molly on before? That is a grave miscarriage of justice on our part. Now we have We offer our sincerest apology.
Donna Givens Davidson:We have had Authentically Detroit, I mean 4HU Ford on here. Yeah.
Orlando Bailey:Just not Molly.
Donna Givens Davidson:Yeah. Mani's been on here, right?
Orlando Bailey:Yes. Uh-huh. Yes. Welcome to the podcast.
Donna Givens Davidson:Me ony and then Jamila?
Orlando Bailey:Jamila.
Donna Givens Davidson:Jamila's been on it. Jamila has not, but I'm trying to think of the lady who works for you who came on, I think maybe she came to the Black Detroit Democracy Podcast.
SPEAKER_03:Arlisa.
Donna Givens Davidson:Arlisa.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, yes. That's better than me.
Donna Givens Davidson:No, no, no. Nobody's better than you. We're really excited. We are really excited to have you because you're the visionary. You're the person who has been doing this for going on 12 years. I know. Wow. Long time. Yeah.
Orlando Bailey:How are you feeling? How's the day finding you? Happy New Year.
SPEAKER_03:Happy New Year.
Orlando Bailey:You're feeling old?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
Orlando Bailey:Why?
SPEAKER_03:I don't know.
Orlando Bailey:Does this work age you? Yeah. Do you feel like it ages you?
SPEAKER_03:Do you think it ages you?
Orlando Bailey:I I I I feel like in a in a way that people can't see. You know what I'm saying? You know, I've I don't feel or see age on my body, but I feel very young. I feel it. Yeah, you look very young too.
Donna Givens Davidson:Yeah. Yeah. I feel it in my soul. In my knees.
SPEAKER_03:Sounds like I got real physical pain. Yeah, real physical. Mostly I think I just like get a little more cynical about humanity, which is the same thing.
Orlando Bailey:Well, that too. Me too, yeah. I mean, it's been one has been a little bit more.
Donna Givens Davidson:It doesn't make me cynical, it makes me radical. And I think that's probably right. Um, it's like aging radicalizes you because you go one of two directions, right? You either become more conservative or you become more radical. I love that. I'm definitely more radical. And I'm more radical year after year after year. And so everything that happened this weekend, you know, I'm thinking to myself, Trump's mistake is not hiding his hand. The U.S. does this shit all of the time, but we hide our hands. This idiot is out here bragging. We captured him. Like that's not how we do things, though.
Orlando Bailey:Parading him around New York.
Donna Givens Davidson:And we don't say it's for the oil. When we went and we toppled Sudan, Saddam Hussein, we didn't say, hey, this is for the oil. You don't tell people that. You say I'm doing this for human rights excuses. For democracy.
Orlando Bailey:No, but we want the companies to invest in Venezuela for the oil.
Donna Givens Davidson:But but it's always been that, right? When I was in, when I was in um undergrad, when I was, you know, young, um, I was taking a foreign policy class at Wayne State and staying with my aunt, who's Guatemalan. And this is during the time that my parents are getting divorced. And so I'm talking all this foreign policy stuff. And she says, and I don't want to imitate her voice, but she has always had a very strong accent. Read this. And so I read the book, Bitter Fruits, how the U.S. government took, you know, whatever, created revolutionary, deposed the president of Guatemala. She was a child then. She graduated at the top of the, you know, her high school. So she was an academic superstar, brilliant lady. And she was in a parade and met the president, and the next year he was gone. And all during my childhood, she and my uncle would bring people from Guatemala to stay with them, helping to, you know, bring them into the United States and protect them from wars that continued for decades after that, right? And so I don't know if you know Emma Reine Mendoza. She's an attorney in Southwest Detroit. That's where I met Emma Reine, her mother and her brother Rudolfo. They stayed with my aunt and uncle. Um, and that was always something that I grew up with and admired. My grandmother was a social activist. She, when I was in college, she told us she was going to Mexico, came back, and we said, How was Mexico? She said, Oh, I wasn't in Mexico, I was in Nicaragua observing the elections. I just told you I was going to Mexico, so you wouldn't work. Right. And so, you know, all of those things I've been aware of. And then you read more. You read Gangsters of Capitalism and, you know, learn about the Monroe Doctrine and the Roosevelt Corollary and the Truman Doctrine, and you know, all of that. But to see this idiot get up there and just claim this is blatant. Educational. This is exactly who we are. It's educational. And I think in some ways, you know, not hiding your hand and doing it, I'm not celebrating what he did. I think it's horrendous. But don't hide your hand. No, it's exactly what he wants.
SPEAKER_03:I mean, it's the truth.
Donna Givens Davidson:It's why were we in Vietnam? Why were we in Korea? We weren't in Vietnam and Korea because we cared about it. Have we ever been in Central America? Ever. Always.
SPEAKER_03:Not democracy.
Donna Givens Davidson:And why are people? But the other thing is, you know, when you close the loop, why are people coming here? Because we destroyed the places that they lived. We took all of the arable land and controlled it so that they can't grow their own crops. We've, you know, created Panama was a creation of the city.
Orlando Bailey:I mean, the food shortage in Venezuela is very underreported right now, but there is a massive food shortage. 90% of the residents there are living in poverty. And that's not a pretty picture.
Donna Givens Davidson:And the embargo that we put on there, our foreign policy, not Trump's foreign policy before there, contributed to that. Our U.S. foreign policy can be so cruel and we can be so naive. What I'm hoping is that this is a wake-up call for those of us who are looking at the news to say, stop. To say we want something different. We want a different world.
Orlando Bailey:One of my frustrations over the past different world than where you come from. Go ahead. Sorry.
Donna Givens Davidson:And you know, there's that's me rebooted. I can't wait. Um, but you know, one of the things that frustrates me is that we have a way of looking at American foreign policy through such narrow lens we don't really understand what's happening. People are so angry about what's happening in Gaza that there are some people who blame Israel for everything or APAC for everything that's happening anywhere in the world. And it's like, y'all know Israel hasn't been around as long as foreign policy. It's Israel to me isn't a colonial outpost of the United States. There's a reason that Israel, the United States, gives that money, it's not to be nice guilt, regardless of party, and that's because there is a geopolitical reason, there's an economic reason for Israel being there. And you can be a Nazi in the U.S. government and support Israel because of that geopolitical reason. 100%. And when we understand that, then we don't blame AIPAC and Israel for everything that's going wrong. I'm not supporting APEC, but it's our government. And so somebody posted on my page when I post something about this, Israel is behind all of this. And I thought, now this is how that is anti-Semitism, right?
Orlando Bailey:And misinformation.
Donna Givens Davidson:And misinformation. But that or that's I don't even want to say it's anti-Semitism because Semitism has so many meanings. That's hatred for Jewish people. To blame Jewish people for all negative world affairs. Hopefully, people are opening their eyes and understanding that genocide doesn't happen in one part of the world, one time to these only only these people. But it's the practice of exploitation, oppression, and governments that have too much power and are run by evil people is something that is that we see in places that we don't know. And so I really take this moment and say, raise your consciousness. Yeah. And then you know what to fight.
Orlando Bailey:How is your holiday? It's it's 2026. How was your holiday?
SPEAKER_03:It was great. Yeah. Hung out with my son. I read a book, a fiction book.
Orlando Bailey:A fiction book? You read for fun.
SPEAKER_03:For fun.
Orlando Bailey:Oh gosh. That's great. What did you read?
SPEAKER_03:The God of the Woods.
Orlando Bailey:God of the Woods. It was fine. It was fine. Okay. Donna, how are your holidays? You've been off.
Donna Givens Davidson:I have. I finished a fiction book. You wrote it. I wrote it. Pew, pew, pew.
Orlando Bailey:Announcement.
Donna Givens Davidson:Come on. Okay. Called 40 Acres and Future D.
Orlando Bailey:40 Acres and Future D.
Donna Givens Davidson:When's it coming out? I don't know. Somebody has to publish it first. Calling all publishers. Calling all publishers. Orlando's going to hook me up with somebody.
Orlando Bailey:4824 publishing.
Donna Givens Davidson:I sent it to some people. Orlando said he was going to read it. Yeah. And then he told me about the stack of books he has to read. And I figure he doesn't have time to read this.
Orlando Bailey:But I love reading, but I have to read for work. I have to do all these interviews. And so I gotta read these books. Yeah, I think I never cheat. Yeah, I read the book cover to cover.
Donna Givens Davidson:And I would never want to stand in the way of you doing your job. Which is why you'll send me the book. You're leaving her. You're not even reading her book.
SPEAKER_03:At least you can read her books. I never said I couldn't. How many pages though?
Orlando Bailey:I never said I couldn't read her book.
Donna Givens Davidson:I don't know. She's just making excuses. Somewhere like around 375, I think. Isn't that? Oh yes. 375 pages. We can read it together. I'll send it to you. Lunch breaks at Tech Town. Oh, see. That'll be fun. But no, I'm too scared to, you know, I've been working on this. I've been working on this book for seven years.
Orlando Bailey:Seven is the perfect number. Yes. Biblically and theologically, seven is the number of completion.
Donna Givens Davidson:Wow, give us a teaser. Okay. The teaser is it starts in 1967. At the site of the rebellion, the family congregation. This family has is out is in Idawile, sitting out the rebellion in Idawile, Michigan. And that's actually what my family did in 1967. Wow. And this family that lives in the Boston-Edison neighborhood goes there. The dad's a doctor, the mom is a housewife, and um, but she uh she was she became a teacher. Now the interesting thing about this is that's actually my grandfather was a doctor, my grandmother was a teacher, but these aren't them. But it starts with them and their views on what happened and theirs really disconnected from why this is happening, and they have a son. And so his journey, and then he meets up with a friend, and his friend um comes from a completely different um background. His father came up here as a sharecropper, um, went to war, came here, brought his wife, bought a house in Black Bottom, lost the house to, you know, um Negro removal, ended up living in that that the in the Virginia Park area. He was working at a plant, a foundry, and he decided I'm not doing this anymore. I came here, I can't have anything of my own. So he becomes, he he starts living in the underground economy, the street life. So he becomes a criminal. And his son, Moses, and this person, they become best friends, and his wife, they become best friends. And so it follows everything from there, and it ends in around 2007. It's fiction, but it's fiction that interweaves a lot of Detroit's history. So the idea is if you want people to drink medicine, put it in orange juice. If you want people to learn our history, I'm putting it in a novel form. And hopefully you'll love it. Because what I tried to do is I tried to humanize every character. So the criminal, you can understand how he became that way. All the worst people, all the best people, you know how they became that way. Because we all have our, you know, every every um every criminal has an origin story. Every great person has an origin story. What are our origins? What became of Black Detroit? What's that?
Orlando Bailey:Columbia University. Well, they didn't have a publishing house.
Donna Givens Davidson:That's true. She's a professor, directly not the lecture. They won't, yeah. But yeah, I I'll send something to them. I think I appreciate that. And maybe I can talk to some folks there. But anyway, the idea is I just want people to see us. See us flaws in honor. And so it's the first, it's it's gonna be a trilogy. This book ends right before right when Detroit starts ramping out um predatory lending. So from 1967 to predatory lending. Same family or same characters, same same characters, lots of them. Yeah, there's about eight characters that we are following in here.
Orlando Bailey:So if so, if I get you a uh a book deal, do I get a percentage? Yes. Okay.
Donna Givens Davidson:Yeah, you're gonna be my agent. I need an agent. No, but anyway, so I it does that mean if there's such a sense of completion and fulfillment to be able to say, I'm done. I'm not really sure. What did you do?
Orlando Bailey:So we let me ask you this. When you when you typed the last word and you knew you were done, what did you do?
Donna Givens Davidson:Yeah, what was the celebration?
Orlando Bailey:What was the celebration? What was the celebratory moment or you know?
Donna Givens Davidson:We're having it now. Oh, we're doing it right now. I mean, I finished last night.
Orlando Bailey:Oh, you finished last night?
Donna Givens Davidson:Last night.
Orlando Bailey:Did you have you no glass of wine, nothing?
Donna Givens Davidson:You just like I sent it to a couple people who agreed to proof freedom. I sent it to it's very scary to send out something like that. Remember how scary it's like. It's a part of you, yes. It's incredible. It's a part of you, yes. It's like, oh my goodness, somebody's gonna read this and they won't like that.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
Donna Givens Davidson:And somebody's gonna read it, might be offended by some characterizations. You know, and I'll give an example of one. Um, I don't talk about Jack and Jill. I talk about Hansel and Gretel. The Hansel and Gretel organization. Ah, so a Gretel Society for children and how these parents came together. That's fiction. To keep their children away from Temptation and The Witch.
Orlando Bailey:So you need you need that disclaimer. Any rel any this is complete fiction. Any coincidences as it relates to real life is completely coincidence.
Donna Givens Davidson:Anybody's people are gonna interpret it what they interpret. And they will know it's Jack and Jill. It's not accidental. I was thinking about except a white person that raids and they're like, you know what? I'm trying to show the different parts of the city. The city has all the different parts. But also, you know, and I don't want to spend too much time talking because we have to talk about you, but the last thing I want to say is, you know, growing up, my grandfather was a doctor, he graduated from um Indiana University. Go Indiana, go that was so cool.
Orlando Bailey:I saw you post it. Yes.
Donna Givens Davidson:So cool. My grandfather um became a doctor. He graduated from Indiana University in 1926, I think. Wow. And moved to Detroit. My dad went to U of M, he's a doctor. And so for so long, I felt this sense of guilt, like for my privilege, right? Because I grew up in a household that had at least economic privilege, all the crazy stuff, you know, because it doesn't matter. It doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense. You can't buy sane, but um, but he was a doctor. And so that's that's you know part of who I am. And I walked around with guilt. And then one day, I understood. I understood how they tried to protect us by forcing us to speak a certain way and you know, all of the norms that go along with being part of this group. I understood the sacrifices that they made that you don't get to be the first without scars. If you're in front of the line and you're dealing in a racist society, you walk away in some ways more scarred than many other people without the community behind you because you're an outlier. And so I started having compassion for LOL.
Orlando Bailey:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Anyway, but I can't imagine being a doctor, a black doctor in 1926.
Orlando Bailey:And you know, rest his soul, but also I didn't realize this. Happy Founders Day to the Kappas. Her grandfather was a kappa.
Donna Givens Davidson:He was, he was a kappa, and the he was in one of the first lines, so he's in the Kappa history books. Um he's one of the This is amazing.
Orlando Bailey:Oh, yeah, I'm looking it up. Look, that's her granddaddy. Yeah, so I know, right? Dr. Givens.
Donna Givens Davidson:Donna Van Heston Givens. So I what a name. Right. So my name, Donna Givens, I comes from him. Heston was his mother's name, made a name. Anyway, so for me, owning them, owning the people, owning this past, not throwing it away, not criticizing it, because when you do certain things, but then also not criticizing all of the other people who at different, you know, we have this tendency to think of these are the good people and these are the bad people. And we're all striving for the same thing through the different seats that we occupy. And the question is, you know, do we ever hold ourselves accountable or realize when we start straying in the wrong lane? And so hopefully, as you read this, you can see, if you read my book, you can see that people are wanting to be good and sometimes doing really crappy things, and that's the way life is. Um, we have sounds human. It's it's and then we when people make mistakes, we have a tendency to just discredit everything about them.
Orlando Bailey:Right.
Donna Givens Davidson:You say one wrong thing, and you are just no longer any good.
Orlando Bailey:A mistake is a mistake.
Donna Givens Davidson:Yeah, you it it's and I don't call it cancel culture because black folks have been canceled when we make mistakes since forever. You know, a black person be the most famous person in the world and um and say something like, you know, make a comment that wreaks of, you know, anti Jewish, other kinds of racism, sexism, and it's like, okay, now this person can no longer be allowed anywhere. I'm not defending him because I he doesn't need a defense. But when you look at um Lewis Farrakhan, Lewis Farrakhan is treated like the worst of the worst of the worst. You can't Bring him into public view. You can't say anything good about him. And yet you have full-blown Nazis wearing Nazi regalia given freedom of speech. So we don't necessarily double standards.
Orlando Bailey:I'll use this example to what you're saying. And uh Jamie Foxx ended up saying something online to encourage somebody who's like, well, they hated, they hated Jesus, they're gonna hate you. And slammed. Yes.
Donna Givens Davidson:And this is after this man miraculously survived whatever he was going through because everybody thought he was brain dead. He's alive. He speaks and he says the same thing every black person I know said. And then if they did that to Jesus, what would they do to you? And they're not talking about judgment, they're talking about if your friends tell you out. It's literally your friends telling you out. If your friends do this to you, what will it in the the interpretation? And then you have to, you know, I think there was um somebody, I can't remember who the star was, said something about paragliding right after, um, right after what happened in um the after um the in Gaza. Oh my God, when the people the the massacre, right after the massacre, and I guess they were paragliding in there, and she said something about paragliding, black women, and they're canceling her for saying those words. And so to me, racism in America is really weird because you have to always prove you're one of the good ones. Uh-huh. I'm a good one. And you know, I think it's unconscious. You don't think of this. I'm one of the good ones. I'm one of the good ones. In order to just be relevant, in order to be good, you have to be one of the good ones. And it's a burden we carry that we don't talk about.
Orlando Bailey:Talk about it.
Donna Givens Davidson:And that's the reason why, to some extent, some people are so unwilling to criticize people who are objectively horrible. Like R. Kelly has defenders will never, some people will never stop because the reality is they feel like I'm always standing on the edge of being thrown away myself. And in a world that throws us away, I'm not gonna let you throw away any of us. Now, I don't agree with that. Nikki Minaj can go join some other group, right? We're not down, I'm not down with her, but I get the instinct to protect. Well, she did, but I get the instinct to protect our own.
Orlando Bailey:That's but that you know, that's that's a really, really salient point. And there are people popping up in my brain as you say that because I'm like, I don't understand, right? But when you say that there's this adjacency or this feeling, this palpable feeling of you also being thrown away by society because of whatever you're standing on the socioeconomic register, your your family history, whatever, it it it it prompts you to defend other folks on the margins, like you said, who are just objectively horrible, right? Yeah, that's that's really interesting insight for real. Like, I'm I'm I think I'm now beginning to understand like certain people in my life because I'm like, I cannot understand why I get it.
SPEAKER_03:Like, you know, that that forgiveness is not as racist in its public eye. And so I understand wanting to protect every other person. Yeah. And like if you step into it, it could be me in a day.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:It's like But then it, you know, then you actually don't.
Donna Givens Davidson:You see a young white man and you presume he's good until he shows you evidence that he's bad. You see a young black man and you presume he might be dangerous until he shows you that he's not. The presumption of innocence, the presumption of integrity, of good character, all of those things don't weigh in. The presumption that we have healthy families and we love our children, the presumption that Detroiters care about their kids in schools and that parents love their kids, school's not organized in Detroit. And this is such a good prelude to get, when you'll talk about this, with the expectation that parents want their children to excel. And that children want to do well. It's almost like we have to punish you and berate you into excellence. And that's the opposite of human nature. Human beings want to be successful, but racism has a way of treating certain classes of people as though they want different things. And so um I'm it's it's if I say anything, and this is the last thing I'll say, this book will hopefully be a love letter to Detroit that is both beautiful and terrible and wonderful and crazy and everything in the world. Just like Detroit. Just like Detroit Prior Book Club.
Orlando Bailey:Yeah, just like Detroit.
Donna Givens Davidson:Let's have one. Because we are in relationship.
Orlando Bailey:Candace Fortman always says we are in relationship with the city. Um and it has the ability to bring us joy, bring us great grief, frustrate us. I mean, we are in this long-standing, sometimes domestically abusive relationship with the city of Detroit. And so it is, it really is all of those things. Uh, Molly, we're happy you're here. Happy holidays, everybody. Happy New Year. Um, today is my last recording for Authentically Detroit.
Donna Givens Davidson:I've been trying to delay this conversation.
Orlando Bailey:And I've been letting her because um this is this the decision coming to this decision was not um an easy one, nor am I like joyously skipping out of here. But the time has come. Um I'll speak to folks who have created something before. When you get an opportunity to create something that you're passionate about with a colleague who has turned into a dear friend, and that thing that you created, you love and you nurture it, and it is so important to you. And one day you look up and the thing you created is just as important to a city, to residents, to philanthropic professionals, to folks in city government, to folks who are passionate about Detroit and maybe somewhere across the world, but gets to listen in to hear about what's going on. When you create something and it becomes valuable beyond what you could imagine, it is it's the best feeling ever. And to have done that alongside call her a giant, uh, and one of my greatest teachers, um, Donna Givis Davidson, has been such a surreal fun, challenging privilege. Um there are, you know, there's a scripture that says to everything there is a time and a season. And uh my season in Authentically Detroit is coming to an end. Um I want to thank uh everybody uh who uh has been a part of this journey from Jonathan Galloway and AudioWave Network to uh Terry Minor and Elante Steele who did our photo shoot and our cover art, uh to Bridge Detroit for putting us on their website for four years, to WDET for housing us. Um to every partner, every guest, every fill-in host. I mean, we got a roster of folks who uh we call to come in. Um to everybody who helped make Authentically Detroit community um a community on on the airwaves, um, I I sincerely thank you all. This has been uh the highlight of one of the greatest highlights of my life, you know. Even while working in community development, of course, I still had a broadcasting and journalistic proclivity. And having all of these conversations with Donna, and then us sitting one day and saying, hey, we should daylight these conversations and we should do it on the podcast. Uh having that support in a community development capacity to help scratch this itch that I've always had toward telling stories and interviewing folks and getting their stories out of them is invaluable. Right? Having a leader at the at first invest uh resources from her organization because we didn't have any money invest resources from an organization to create this thing and look at what it has become. Um it is a part of the Detroit zeitgeist. Um you cannot talk about having conversations in, around, and about the city of Detroit, and our podcast doesn't come up. And so we know it. Y'all walk up to us, y'all, y'all say hi, you know what I mean? You hear, you may not have seen me before, you hear the voice, and then you're like, oh my god, I know your voice. Um, thank y'all. It's been it's been an amazing ride. Yeah, and I'm so glad. Uh I'm so glad that we got to do it. I'm so glad we did it and are doing it. Yeah.
Donna Givens Davidson:Just want to acknowledge a couple of other people. Um, Conor Connor Anderson at WDET.
Orlando Bailey:Connor Anderson. Man, yeah.
Donna Givens Davidson:Um Griffin. Griffin. What's Griffin's last name? Don't start meeting. I'll look it up. Um, Jalen Fields, Sarah Johnson.
Orlando Bailey:Yeah.
Donna Givens Davidson:Um Hutchins.
Orlando Bailey:Griff Hutchins.
Donna Givens Davidson:I was like, I just at the tip of my tongue. Griff Hutchins, you know, we're a team. Um we have to thank Kyrie Frazier for stepping in. We've done some live episodes. Um there's people who have been just in our corner helping us make this work day after day. And um, you know, when the I was out of town um when Orlando communicated to me that he, you know, was stepping away, and that was not a good moment for me, right at that moment, right? But authentically Detroit is about authentic Detroit voices. And there's always got to be a lineup of voices ready to take the microphone because I think what we have become is a place for people to speak their truth. And I just really honor you, Orlando, because you I this never would have happened without you really just putting your journalistic skills into this, and you know, because I don't know anything about a runner show. I'm just like, let's just talk. And you know, you listen to podcasts and they just talk and you you don't want to listen anymore because there's no structure or whatever. And so you brought the journalism, you um, the outstanding introductions that you give, and you go on vacation, I always trip through those words. We're changing it, okay? Because I'm not doing that anymore. Um, and and you're you're your your journalistic reach, and so your understanding of the process, and I've learned a lot from you, but I also learned to trust my own voice because you know, in this city, for so long, me speaking got me in trouble. And so it's kind of easier not to speak out your feelings than to hold them in. And the first episode we recorded, you were like, this is as life, and I was like, no, it's not. Let's go back and edit it. And he was like, nope, we don't edit it. And I trusted you enough to let you do that, but I felt so scared because I was sure I said something that would offend somebody somewhere, and I had no control over it. You know, at least on Facebook, you can take it down, you can delete, you can go back and edit. But when it's out here, this is just you in your purest form. It never occurred to me that my voice would be not just accepted, but also respected and celebrated. It really didn't. That was the biggest surprise to me in my whole life. You heard my wedding vows. I told um my husband when we were getting married, for my entire life, I've always been too much. Too opinionated, too passionate, too talkative. And people have always wanted to tamp me down. And to marry somebody who loves me just as I am and celebrates those things other people rejected in me was the biggest surprise of my lifetime. I didn't think that I would find love in that way. But Orlando, as a friend and as a colleague, you've done the same thing. And that means everything to me. And so thank you.
Orlando Bailey:Thank you.
Donna Givens Davidson:From the bottom of my heart, thank you for being who you are and then going where you're going. Because, you know, you're headed places, and so I'm really excited to say I knew you win, but I'm gonna be there with you by your side. You're not getting rid of me. We're still gonna do stuff together because we're friends and colleagues and we respect each other. Absolutely. Um, and I'm sure the entire team, so we're gonna have a celebration for Orlando. When are you gonna come back? I don't know, I'll tell you. It'll stay tuned. We're gonna announce celebrations. Authentically done all the time. Celebration. We are going to celebrate Orlando. Um, when Orlando left ECN in the year 2000, we were in the midst of a pandemic. There are no celebrations during the pandemic. We're just trying to stay alive, right? And then he was still with us, still has keys to the building, still here at least once a week. And so it never really felt like there was a departure. Um, then he was on the board and he's still helping out with some stuff. But I think it's important to say, let's take this time to really acknowledge that this is a young man who grew up through here. Maggie told the most amazing story at the East Side Extravaganza. Wow, I learned everything about you there. Um, but um, this amazing young man who was kind of raised here, helped raise us, and now he's moved on, but not really moved on. He's just continuing his path. So, congratulations.
Orlando Bailey:Thank you. We're gonna take a quick break and we're gonna be back to talk about James Tate being selected as the Detroit City Council President. Detroit 1 Million is a journalism project started by Sam Robinson that centers a generation of Michiganders growing up in a state without a city with 1 million people. Support the only independent reporter covering the 2025 Detroit mayoral race through the lens of young people. Good journalism costs. Visit Detroit1million.com to support black independent reporting. Welcome back to Authentically Detroit. For hot takes, James Tate selected as Detroit City Council President. This is by Sam Robinson, the co-host of the Black Detroit Democracy Podcast. Detroit City Council has a new leader after a vote in a special session Monday that illustrated the political factions between members of the body. Former Detroit City Council President Pro Temp James Tate of District 1 is now the president of the body after a 5-4 vote. District 3 Councilmember Scott Benson was the runner-up. Detroit Clerk Janice Winfrey presided over Detroit City Council's special session today as it began the new year without a city council president. The president and president pro temp are selected to four-year terms by vote members, by voting by by vote among members of the body. That's what he's trying to say. City Council began selecting presidents by majority vote of the members in 2014. Council member at large, Mary Waters, expressed disappointment Monday inside the City Council's Irma Henderson Auditorium after she says she didn't hear back from colleagues other than Benson on her aspirations to run again for council president. She did in 2021, receiving a vote from District 2 Councilmember Angela Woodfield Callaway. James Tate and Scott Benson were the two candidates who received votes. Renata Miller, District 5, Benson. Gabriella Santiago Romero, District 6 went for Tate. Mary Waters at large went for Benson. Woodfield Callaway District 2 went for Benson. Scott Benson went for Benson. He's in District 3. Letitia Johnson in District 4 went for Tate. James Tate in District 1 went for Tate. Comey Young at large, council person went for Tate. And Denzel McCampbell in District 7 went for Tate. Shortly after the vote Monday, Komina Young II was elected as Detroit City Council President pro tem. Tate nominated Young to the position he held for the last four years. This is important. This is important who serves in East Post. Donna, what say you?
Donna Givens Davidson:Oh, I'm really happy with the vote. Um, I was um, you know, it's so exciting to have the um coalition of the three um council members, Gabriella, Denzel, and Letitia, working together because they are by far the most progressive members of the United States. We were saying this before we started today, you know, I don't I don't think we were on camera or I don't think the the mics were on at that time, that as you get older, you either become more conservative or more radical. And as the mics were on. They were on every so we're saying this again. Um, but you know, the my radical side is really excited because I believe that we need radical change in our community. And unfortunately, the runner-up for city council president does not share those radical change beliefs. Yeah. James Tate doesn't either necessarily line up with all of those ideas. Um, I worked in Brightmore for a brief period of time and I got to know him. He is a man of integrity, and I believe he is a person who wants to do the right thing. He's about to somebody who will support causes that make sense to him. Um, we were very fortunate to have Mary Sheffield in that space when she was on city council because, you know, there's some votes that really came down to the wire. And the only person who voted with her outside of the women on city council was Coleman Young. Um, remember the vote on the property tax appeals process, and there's some other things. So I think that um James Tate has big shoes to fill. Um, we had somebody who could be trusted to carry out a more progressive agenda who was sharing city council. On the other hand, city council as a body is more progressive than it was. And so I think having a more progressive city council with a mayor who herself has a more progressive agenda means that we're going to have real change in our city. I believe that to my bones, I would have been a little concerned if we had a member who was likely to try to stop some of the things that she wanted to do.
Orlando Bailey:Molly, I'm really interested to hear your perspective on this.
SPEAKER_03:On James. I mean, we've worked with James Tate in Brightmore for a long time with our Brightmore education team. And I think spot on, James operates with integrity. Every time we've disagreed, you know, James is in his In a most thoughtful way will come to community and tell him why he's not voting the way that community wants him to, and in a way that actually still honors the values and respect for community being a voice and a power broker. And so I'm excited. I think that he'll he'll come to the table and having Denzel and Gabby both aligned with Working Families Party and trying to bring and Letitia bring a progressive agenda that prioritizes community over corporations. I mean, I think James is gonna have, I think he's uniquely positioned to be honest and to navigate uh the different powers in Detroit. It's not gonna be easy for him. I mean, I it's there's a whole faction in this city that's very nervous to have Doug and be gone that's going to pressure Mary and City Council to continue corporate buyouts, to continue to have like corporate um power. Subsidies subsidies, all those things, right? Lynn, how do we actually have a uh mayor and city council that's a good thing?
Orlando Bailey:And Mayor Sheffield has not said that she would do away with corporate subsidies.
Donna Givens Davidson:No, no, and and she won't. No. I think we have to really guys. We have to center our political expectations around political realities. Keep this in mind. This governor of Michigan can at will declare that Detroit has an emergency and take over the City of Detroit's finances and appoint a new emergency manager. We know now that our freedom is not absolute to do what we will. If you look at cities like Jackson, Mississippi that tried to go against the grain, you see what happens when you go too far. But the other thing is that we live in a capitalist state inside of a capitalist nation. Yeah. And our economy is based on certain irrefutable things. Like, you know, you may want to just go against the grain, but you our budget depends on bond financing.
unknown:Yeah.
Donna Givens Davidson:It depends on the bond holder guild and Gilbert being happier. Well, but at that point. And the bond rating agencies. Bond rating agencies ultimately have to believe that what you do makes sense. Yeah, that's right. The bond rating agencies don't share my priorities. And so being able to balance those interests. Yeah. Every mayor has had to do that. Coleman Young had, people don't remember that Coleman Young had to balance those interests too, right? Yeah. And he was accused of supporting downtown at the expense of neighborhoods because you're always going to have some of it. Now it's a lot more extreme right now, but I think that we should right-size our expectations, prioritize our demands, and try to be realistic in how we interface with this mayor, understanding that sometimes we're going to have to disagree.
Orlando Bailey:It's a new day in Detroit.
Donna Givens Davidson:It is a new day, but we have to let that new day play out because it's not going to all happen. Now, today we got the um the RX Kids Kids announcement announcement, which is huge. And I'm sure there's going to be many more to come. We are still in the midst of a transition process. The surveying has not even started. A lot of the community meetings haven't started, but this is a mayor who's going to be in the community talking to Detroiters about what they want. And I think ideally, she will have the leverage she needs to actually negotiate with City Council. Yeah.
Orlando Bailey:And she knows that process.
Donna Givens Davidson:So it's not just going to be my word against yours, but this is what the community feels, you know.
Orlando Bailey:We will be right back with Molly Sweeney to talk about her work at 4824. Keep it locked. Molly Sweeney and Jamila Martin, founding co-directors, convened a round table of community-based partners at Excellent Schools Detroit who were interested in engaging in education organizing in their neighborhoods. When ESD no longer wanted to support organizing, the partners felt so strongly about the work they had built together that they stood together to form an independent network and raise the necessary funding. The founding directors, staff, and leaders had a vision of leveraging social service communities toward organizing that would marry rather than place at odds immediate program work with long-term system change work. Everything about 4824 was formed collectively, so committees learned about things like structure, membership, and conferences from other organizations and brought back recommendations that were adopted by the whole body. In particular, 482 Ford representatives visited Kentuckians for the Commonwealth and had a number of learning conversations with them and Together Colorado. Together, they are creating a Detroit where every student graduates, ready to become fully engaged participants in the world, equipped with the character and the capacity to negotiate their environment and change it for the better. Molly Sweeney, welcome to Authentically Detroit.
SPEAKER_03:Thanks for having me.
Orlando Bailey:How does it feel to have built, help to build something this year? We just talked about a baby, right?
SPEAKER_03:It's a baby, yeah. You and Jimmy's 12 years old, yeah. I mean, and and I will say that that's on our website, isn't it? Um really the moment I think Jamila and I knew with partners that we wanted to build something um around organizing an education was in Southwest before we went to Excellent Schools Detroit. Uh, when we filled an auditorium with the Harriet Tubman Center, we were organizing with parents in Southwest Detroit. We filled an auditorium um with a thousand parents. Because every organizer in the world at that point would say to you, you get a thousand people in a room with a politician, you can get whatever you want. Put him in a room on the stage, and we had uh Robert Bob. Bob Bob.
Orlando Bailey:Bob Bob.
SPEAKER_03:Bob Bob. Bob Bob was on stage, and we had like, I don't know, 10 policy changes we asked him to make in front of a thousand parents, and he said yes to everyone. The next week he left. And it was this realization that power in the context of Detroit, in the context of our country and the state with emergency management was different. That like just voting was not an electoral power, was not enough to transform our schools. And at the time, right, we had the emergency manager, we had just had the EAA, and then we had the influx of charter schools. So, like, no school in the city was run by Detroiters. So it was this deep conversation with community partners of like, okay, so you guys have all these service relationships. How are you leveraging them to really build power? Because we're not gonna get rid of an emergency manager. They they just, you know, created a new law when we voted it out. We have to build real power. And um that was the moment I think that we said is like, how do you what does power look like in this context? Which I think, you know, honestly, the the US is experiencing right now, right? What is it, I think Detroit like as a as a canary in the coal mine? Yeah, great. Absolutely. It's like power, what what power do we have when big money and corporations really control everything? Yeah, and how do we on the ground? And Detroit education being one of the first experiments in most recent history, right? We have the DevOps, the Heritage Foundation, the Skillman Foundation, the Skillman Foundation, all of it, right? They were complicit Skillman was complicit in the whole thing. And all of it.
Donna Givens Davidson:And and the papers, the papers, the foundation, it was a coordinated effort to, in their mind, the way to improve education was to dismantle unions because unions were the boogeyman. And if we get rid of teacher unions, we can have good education.
SPEAKER_03:Um and you know, I think to bosses, the Heritage Foundation trying to run the voucher, the ballot initiative multiple times in the state.
Donna Givens Davidson:But you know what really gets me about the school reform is that school reform was a marriage between people on the far right and on the left, um, really wanting the same thing and really believing in the bad boogeyman being Detroit teacher unions. Um the and uh DFT was flawed, is flawed. Um, you know, public unions can be very flawed because they protect the worker. But the reality is at that time you didn't have the teacher shortage that you have today. Yeah. At that time, you didn't have many of the problems that you have today. As it turns out, holding teachers accountable just drove them out of the workforce. Teacher accountability was not something that promoted teacher morale. And people with low morale don't perform as well on the job as people with high morale. And so there were a lot of unintended consequences. One of the worst, and it doesn't get talked about enough. One of the worst was the dismantling of the pension system by privatizing all of that education. Um, we spend so much on education now, and they brag about we spend more on education than any time in our history. That's because we're spending how many a billion dollars every year propping up a pension fund that would otherwise collapse because you have more people drawing pensions than contributing to pensions. Yep. It's a ridiculous problem to have. Um somebody with actuarial table should have been in the conversation, but someone with financial expertise, yeah. Um, but but you you you came into this, you entered into this when all of those people were so intent on dismantling that they weren't really looking at the after effects of dismantling. It's like shocking awe in Iraq, right? Um we're gonna come in here and we're gonna do this, and it's like um now you have destroyed the state. What do you have in its wake? Yeah. So what has Fort I know because I'm on the board with 42 word and I'm a big fan, have been for many years, but what are some of the things that you accomplished during these dose years?
SPEAKER_03:I mean, I think one of the one of the most impactful campaigns was our first campaign we ran, which was to help push the legislature to get the school board back. Um I think that experience though also showed us so pushing legislation, trying to get a Republican legislature and governor to pass a bill uh to bail out Detroit uh public schools, that you know, getting the school word back was one outcome. The other was in the middle of the night, the DeVoses paid$1.7 million to the legislature to add Dirconian things into that bill, which was if you're in the bottom 5% for test scores in the state for three years, you had to close, which then the next year triggered multiple, um, I think 35 schools across the state, 20 some in Detroit that were gonna close. So then we built an infrastructure, which is actually I'm really proud of, the Michigan Education Justice Coalition, which is a statewide infrastructure like 482 Forward, because we realized, oh hey, we're not gonna win anything as Detroit unless we build statewide power. And so we had to help build out organizing infrastructure across the state, um, which was not one of our intended, you know, it was like, I don't want babies across the state, but now we have little, you know, we have organizations across the state because we need to have power, because you know, the rural groups in the UP actually are under the same infrastructure, and the are we need to have the power of their voices pushing their legislators because they're impacted too when things are horrible. Um so I would say one, getting the school board back, but two, the unintended consequences from DeVos, helping us birth out this larger statewide network that is dedicated to building muscle and power, people power to fight the corporate infrastructure, the the 1% infrastructure that's trying to control public education in the state. An experiment here because they're gonna they're taking it everywhere else. Um and then I would say the lawsuit, the literacy lawsuit has been huge. Yeah.
Orlando Bailey:Um but I think the other 90 million.
SPEAKER_03:90 million. You know, one of the things that she's 92, 92, 96 million?
Orlando Bailey:97 million, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Something like that.
SPEAKER_03:I would think my my most my most proud though is that we there's a bunch of young people, parents, that have come through this through our programming whose like understanding of power and politics. Yes, um, is incredible. I mean, I met with one of our students who came from one of the charter schools on on Sunday. She's a Yemeni woman. She's a first Marshall scholar who's a Yemeni um woman from Southwest Detroit. And she said, and I I mean, I was like pretty dumbfounded too. She said, I I wouldn't be where I am unless at 13 you all wouldn't have actually given me an understanding of power. Because I navigated high school, I navigated college, understanding power in a new way. And she wants to move back here and remember office.
Donna Givens Davidson:That's amazing. I mean, one of the most exciting things that you've done, and those are all amazing. Those are all amazing. And it reminds people that um, you know, I always go back to change what you can. Yeah. You can't change everything, change what you can. And sometimes what you can do is you can change people's minds. Sometimes what you can do is you can educate people and help them access the power that God gave them, right? And sometimes what you can do is actually have a target, very specific targets. And we're gonna talk about one of those in a minute. Before we get to that target, though, I want to talk about what happened during COVID because that was some real community organizing at a time when everybody's sheltering in this place. Talk about what you did and the ginormous impact of your work during COVID.
SPEAKER_03:Which part? I mean, we did a few things. One, our students led some campaigns around um policing in the schools and actually did a lot of work to think about and push the legislature to pass it was$210 million towards counselors, counselors, not cops, um, which was all birthed out of like virtual meetings with young people around the pandemic. Um, but then the other thing we did, which is which was very interesting, and talk about like a foray into um comms, is we launched a like online Facebook Live with PBS and did these weekly and you know, weekly um, I don't know what they call it, shows. Yes. Shows with PBS. And I remember a couple of. And it was this really interesting way of like community partners. Honestly, we were talking to the city and the city wasn't doing stuff, and we all got really frustrated that we weren't getting good information around what families should do. And so I don't know how we even got connected to PBS, but they were like, let's try it. And then they didn't understand Zoom, so it was my Zoom, which is wild.
Orlando Bailey:Yeah. Detroit PBS could be a little analog sometimes. I mean, they're the best. I love them. Shout out to Marby.
SPEAKER_03:All of them.
Orlando Bailey:Shout out to Zose, everybody at Detroit PBS. Yeah.
Donna Givens Davidson:But I mean, it was it was transformational.
SPEAKER_03:It was relationship builder, and it became this place where we actually did pot like political updates and we we kept people abreast on like the best. We met so many doctors and so many folks across the state that um we're trying to bring real information to Detroiters in ways that people could hear it.
Donna Givens Davidson:And you know, um, before I forget to mention um Molly and 424, that's our 2025 Truth of Power Award. Um, really speaking Truth of Power. There's nobody more deserving of that. Yeah, that was great. But um, but now you're focused on something that gets me really excited, just thinking, and I know it's hard. Can you talk about it?
Orlando Bailey:Let me see. I see it. I see how hard it is because Molly and I are neighbors in uh we're 424 to outlier our neighbors in tech town. And so I see you. I see you working, I see you trying to collect signatures and yes.
SPEAKER_03:I mean, talk about I I feel old, but you're right. I think this campaign has radicalized me in ways that are important. Um, so we're trying. So, you know, since we've started, Detroit Public Schools has been underfunded, right? That's just we know it. Starving public institution of resources to close it. And the state, it's not just Detroit, it's public education across the state. So we have a$4.5 billion gap. And since we've started, we're like, hey y'all, who's gonna, you know, revenue campaign? Because we've tried a bunch of policy stuff, and at the end of the policy, everyone's always like, Well, we have money for it. One more counselor, do you have money for it? And so in 2020, we actually tried to run a campaign to a ballot initiative when we were getting ready for it in January to tax the 1% in Michigan um for public education. And we were gonna launch in February. We hosted this cool brunch for billions and focus hope, and then the pandemic hit. And so when, and you can only run a ballot initiative um on a year where there's a statewide seat up for election. So this was our next chance, and we took it. And so we are running a ballot initiative to tax the 1% in Michigan, folks, individuals who make$500,000, couples that make a million, any dollar they make over those thresholds, a new 5% tax for public education in the state, for career in tech, lowering class size, and attracting and retaining teachers, which happen to be the most important issues across the state in Detroit, all the way up to the UP. Um, and if we get it on the ballot and win, it's an extra$1.5 ish, six-ish billion dollars into public education in the state. Um, but it's really hard.
Orlando Bailey:Give us a status check. How's it going right now? I mean, where are you? Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So we're sort of at a choice point. We have somewhere around 100,000 signatures, and we are aiming for, we need 446,000 to be on the ballot. So over the next few weeks and months, we're gonna have to work really hard to get it on the ballot and activate as many people as possible. Um, but you know, we and me in my gut, and I know Donna feels this, that like this is the moment that in a time where there are so many forces trying to tell us no. Um, not on the ground. Folks, forces above, they're like, oh, you know, no, not the.
Donna Givens Davidson:The crazy thing was in, you know, Lansing, we went before the campusing board. Was that what's the board of campassers? Board of Canvassers. Oh my god. And there were um among those board members, this was after they approved it, yeah. Then they said, oh no, we need to change some language, and you came back and gave them some new language, and they refused to approve that. So then you got to use the old language, right? Yeah, which really made them mad. But in that meeting, there were so many things said that were ridiculous. One was an intentional misstatement on the goals and structure of this initiative. There were things that they were saying about what percentage people were going to charge, and there were other um who's impacted. And I think the third one was what does this language mean? Can you talk about some of those arguments that you've had to bit push back against um coming from people in the world?
SPEAKER_03:From the Detroit Chamber? Yes. And the Tampa Michigan Chamber. Yes. I mean, this is this is business, right? This is not who's it, who's at the heart of this? I mean, it was wild. So the the for the listeners, there's the Board of Canvassers, which are two Republicans and two Democrats. Their initial role is to create neutral language for the voter, right? Like that's what it is.
SPEAKER_05:Yep.
SPEAKER_03:And they were lobbied, the two Republicans were lobbied so hard by the well, first, the first time we went through, they gave it a thumbs up. And then they brought us back after the one person from Grand Rapids was lobbied by the Michigan Chamber. And Americans for Prosperity. And the Heritage Foundation directly in the room.
Orlando Bailey:Tell folks, uh, because folks may not make the connection, uh, why they should know who the Heritage Foundation is.
SPEAKER_03:The Heritage Foundation one wrote Project 2025.
Orlando Bailey:There you go. So everybody's everybody has heard about Project 2025, but I don't think everyone knows that it's the Heritage Foundation.
SPEAKER_03:And one of the key partners of the Heritage Foundation are Dick and Betsy DeVos, who, you know, you can look at videos from early 2000s or early 19 like 1990s, them talking about part privatization of schools. Yeah, so I mean they fought us at the beginning, and we and you know, I think this talk about like a radicalization or realization is how much when you are going for what people's profits for the public good, they will fight. I mean, this is these are, you know, all of the chambers, all, you know, all of the the big corporations, they're gonna fight this because it's the 1%. It's the folks who are making the profits, people over 500,000, people who are making a million. I mean, so their arguments are things like this is gonna kill small business. Because some some small businesses are a pass-through. They filed their taxes as a pass-through. That's only 4% of small businesses. And you know what the wildest thing is? There is not a definition of small business. I think the average small business actually in Michigan, or like business in Michigan makes less than$50,000. I can't remember the total stat, don't quote me on that. But they're that's one of their biggest things. It's gonna kill small business. And I'm sure once we get it on the ballot, this is what you're gonna hear over and over again. It's what they said in Massachusetts, it's what they said in other places.
Orlando Bailey:But it's also what they made um for paid leave? Yeah, for paid leave. So did did that legislation define small business by number of employees? It never did, okay. I don't think it did. Go ahead.
SPEAKER_03:So um that's one. I mean, the other thing is that they say it's not restricted. And it is. The intent of the written uh what we wrote with our attorneys is that this money is constitutionally restricted for three things. It'll be allocated by the legislature, but it has to go to career and technical education, attracting and retaining teachers, and um my gosh, my brain. I don't know.
Donna Givens Davidson:I don't remember something. Oh, it's all classroom.
SPEAKER_03:Lowering class size. I think it's all day long. Those three things it has to go to. And that was the other push that they were like, oh, it's a blank check. Because we know that they've pulled, I'm sure they've pulled, and when you say it's a blank check, people don't like it that much. Um and so they're afraid of it because they know that if it gets on the ballot, people are gonna like it.
Donna Givens Davidson:Well, you've gotten some support from some key people though, some key institutions. Can you talk about that?
SPEAKER_03:Um, State Board of Education, some like our big Congress people, the Detroit School Board, the Grand Rapids School Board, the Ann Arbor School Board. I mean, we have folks across the entire state um from up north to down, you know, downstate that are that are experts in education that are coming out for this.
Donna Givens Davidson:Yeah. I think that one of the challenges is when they say that um businesses, and it's only businesses that get charged this according to them, that businesses are going to have the highest tax rate in the nation. Um, but you have research that shows that people in this income ban pay a lower effective tax rate than you and I do. Yeah. Right? Assuming you don't make it$500,000. Um they make they actually pay uh have a lower effect. No, no, no. And and the other thing, the other thing that I've really interesting about this is that businesses can write off losses. And so a lot of times if if they're they're they're saying it's businesses. Now, I did my own web research and who knows if it's any good because I don't have you know enough time to really put into this. But it seems as though you have more people from capital earning incomes like this from capital gains taxes than from small business ownership. You have more people who are professionals than small business owners. And so this idea that only this group of people is being impacted is um false. I think it's terrible. And I think people, everybody says we need to spend more on schools. Nobody wants to do the spending, nobody wants to have to pay for it.
SPEAKER_03:So what's so funny to me, too, when like the chambers come out against this is one for years they've been talking about how much they were part of all these studies of oh, how much we need to invest in schools, especially after Amazon turned Michigan down. Remember this?
Orlando Bailey:I mean, I moderated a panel at the policy conference on education outcomes in I mean, Brian Cali, who is the our small business, he hates us.
SPEAKER_03:You know what Brian Callie just was on a report uh about how much we need more money and investment in special education.
Orlando Bailey:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, Brian, where's it gonna come from?
Orlando Bailey:Former lieutenant governor, where's it gonna come from? Well, you know what the Michigan Small Business Administration.
Donna Givens Davidson:You know, they they look at things like there was a time when there were all of these people really angry with teachers being overpaid. Teacher compensation. They only work 10 months a year and they get paid like they make 12 months. I wish I made that much. There's a lot of very intentional attacks on teachers and school professionals, on public school systems, because again, you know, they'll come with an efficiency argument that says, well, if we just gave vouchers, we could all send our kids a country day and cut out a lot of the bureaucratic fat or pork. Um, there's a lack of knowledge and integrity in all of these conversations, not understanding that when you run a school district like Detroit, you have debt on buildings that are now closed because, you know, that debt doesn't go away just because you close the school building.
Orlando Bailey:You have holding costs.
SPEAKER_03:And holding costs, and you have, you know, not to mention there's no state aid for operation for capital.
Donna Givens Davidson:Well, no, not for capital. And keep in mind that there was a time before the state raided our school aid funds, before the state did what it did and corrupted our education financing system in 1999 with the passage of the um law that was the first school board takeover. There was a time when um oh my goodness, now I forgow where I was going with this. So, anyway. Oh, senior moment here. It's okay. It's okay.
Orlando Bailey:Tell us how folks because we are way over time. Tell us how folks can get involved.
Donna Givens Davidson:I'm just not getting out of here early. So getting out here early?
Orlando Bailey:No, we're just over time. What's our runtime, Jalen? We're we're he's telling us a bit.
SPEAKER_03:Like we're we're at an hour. Okay, so how they can get involved?
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:One, we need people to help us get signatures. So you can come and go to invest in my kids, mi kids.org, sign up to be a signature gatherer. Two, we are having a massive week of action. Two weeks of action called Um Red Fred, um, Love Beats Greed weeks of action starting on February 14th. Get it? Uh-huh. Love beats greed. Yeah. Um, to February 28th, where we're asking folks across the state to sign up and take shifts. We're trying to get 300,000 signatures in those two weeks.
Donna Givens Davidson:I know what I was gonna say. Okay.
SPEAKER_03:You can't do that.
Donna Givens Davidson:There was a time when um wasn't it? No, he wasn't he wasn't he was just moving us along. He was just helping me through my senior moment. But I was gonna talk about, you know, how school schools are funded. Yeah. Schools are funded through local millages and state millages, and the state uses sales tax and some uh and and lottery and other sources combined to create the school aid fund. Okay. Detroit's millages used to support Detroit public schools. But Detroit public schools do not educate students anymore. Students are in Detroit Public Schools community district. The state our millages, our tax dollars in Detroit are being used to pay off the debt that the state created, that that the state uh burdened Detroit public schools with based on terrible decision making that we don't have time to address, right? And so this is a burden that was imposed on us. They weren't doing us a favor. And it was it would have been just better to just you know pay it off all at once, but instead you have these two school districts. Detroit is now being compensated per pupil at the same rate as a charter school with no millages in there. Now, that does two things. It uh imposes a disproportionate drain on the state school aid fund because none of the money educating our students is being supplemented by our property tax dollars. But that's their error. And the other thing is it limits access to education dollars.
SPEAKER_00:And so VD got that right. He got that piece right. Yeah, that piece of advocacy, correct.
Donna Givens Davidson:And so we we really need to help people understand school full understand school financing. Sometimes I find myself trying to explain school financing to people. Some people believe that the latter is overly complicated because it's really convoluted and complicated. And the national narrative is that schools are wasting dollars. But and but and if you look at how much Michigan is spending on school dollars and you compare that to Massachusetts, we're not that far off. The problem is those dollars, so many of those dollars are not going into the classroom in Michigan in comparison to Massachusetts.
SPEAKER_03:So I think I will say though, in Michigan, though, if you look at inflation, we are because of the lack of investment from the state, we're at about 2,006 levels of the right.
Donna Givens Davidson:That's what I'm saying. But but but if you add in all of the money they're using to prop up the pensions, yeah, then it looks like a lot greater, okay? Because it's so expensive to pay for the pension dollars. And all of that was made necessary by their heirs because they wanted to get rid of pensions. And instead, what they did was they destabilized the pension, the state now has to prop up. So as we look at having these arguments, I find myself wanting to always help people understand school finance. A lot of times the argument that's being thrown at people is, well, the lottery doesn't go to schools. Lottery does go to schools. Only six percent. But let's keep in mind that when you say only six percent, it's only six percent of the budget. Yes. We could not educate students on the lottery alone. I think it's important that we keep all of these factors in mind. We need more money. And this year, last year, 2026, last year, we couldn't even pass a state budget because the question was do we fix the roads or pay for schools? Fix the roads or pay for the schools. This legislation will make it easy to do both. That's right. That's right.
Orlando Bailey:And I got a feeling that um if it makes it to the ballot, um the numbers of folks that come out for it uh would be staggering.
SPEAKER_03:It's a bipartisan issue, I think.
Orlando Bailey:And you know, especially especially out of Detroit, you ask detraitors to get more money for kids, museums, whatever detraiters are gonna say absolutely yes. Molly, thank you so much for coming on for the first time on my last show. That means that you are immortalized in my brain and memory of this of this podcast. Listen, if you have topics or guests that you want on authentically detracting away. I made a mistake.
Donna Givens Davidson:I made a mistake and this is a big one. What did you say?
Orlando Bailey:What did you say?
Donna Givens Davidson:424 won the partner award. Or how did you know Pete Bailey won the Truth to Power Award? Is that what you said?
Orlando Bailey:I don't even remember you saying it. You tried to steal my award.
Donna Givens Davidson:Wait, well, you know what? When I realized you were leaving, I just gave it to somebody else. Actions have consequences.
Orlando Bailey:I think Maggie DeSantis would have something to say about that. Authentically to train us up on our socials at authentically trained on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter, or you can email us at authentically trained at gmail.com. It is time for shout-outs. Let's start with you, Molly. Anybody want to shout out folks?
SPEAKER_03:Oh my goodness. Colleagues, friends. All of my colleagues, they're amazing. Yeah, yeah. All the folks have inv invested in my kids.
unknown:We are fun.
Orlando Bailey:Uh I love walking by and I because you know, because I could I try to like stay focused because I could sit in there with y'all forever. We chat until Don Wilson Clark is in that office and she's like, hey, if there's like a whole slice of Detroit. You got our Lisa, Don, our Juanita, yeah, a lot of people. Yes, everybody. Donnie, you have any shout-outs?
Donna Givens Davidson:I just want to shout out the um Detroit's leaders. I have optimism um about the future of our city for the first time. Um in so long it's hard for me to remember. Maybe I'm more optimistic now than I've ever been in my life. Why? And um, you know, um that means a lot to me. Um, not because I'm going to agree with everything that elected officials do. Politicians have a job, but because I believe that our values are aligned and that we'll get so much more than what we've had over the past how many years? Keep in mind, you know, I my first vote was in 1981, and um, that was a long time ago. Um, and we haven't had, you know, we had Coleman Young, and he was running against himself.
Orlando Bailey:That's so crazy. Because you mean to tell me 1981 wasn't 15, 20 years ago. Like in my brain, you know what I'm saying. It's old. Yeah. Goodness.
SPEAKER_03:It's also shout out you, Donna. You're on the transition committee.
Donna Givens Davidson:Oh, yeah. And and as are you? I'm on a subcommittee. I mean, I I love I love the work. And it, you know, I think that this is, you know, think about the fact that there, I think, something like 48 people who are co-chairing these committees. It's amazing. 400 people who sit on these committees. It's massive. We're going to be surveying thousands of people in Detroit and holding community meetings. This is a massive, we care what you think moment. And I think it's important to stop and say this matters and quit being cynical because cynicism is good but can kill you. You know, I never want to be an old cynical person who doesn't believe in things anymore. Um, sometimes I don't believe that we have political solutions to problems. And you guys have had to figure that out. But sometimes we have political partners, and so um, to have people that you believe in and believe in you who will listen to you and show up um where you are means a lot to the city. Um and so I want to just thank our elected officials in general. There's great people running for office. Um, we're seeing the rise of the Working Family Party. I'm really excited about that, and all of the people on the ground, including you, Molly, and um Danielle Atkinson and Brandon Snyder and Scott Holliday, who are helping to make that happen every day.
Orlando Bailey:Uh Detroit. Shout out to Detroit. Um, shout out to y'all for loving us, listening to us, agreeing with us, disagreeing with us, challenging us, um the foundation community for funding us. We listen, it is uh such an honor to be uh a storyteller in this city, but to hand over the mic every week to people like you, Molly, to people like all of the candidates we interviewed, all of the residents we've interviewed, all of the nonprofit leaders we interview to hand over the mic and allow these people to tell their stories and to tell of their impact. It's been so great. So, Detroit, shout out to you. And as always, we thank you so much for listening and remember to love on your neighborhood.
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