Behind The Mountaintop: Humanity, History, and Detroit with Stephanie Wright Griggs and Brian Sullivan Taylor

On this episode, Donna and Sam spoke with Stephanie Wright Griggs and Brian Taylor Sullivan about preserving Black history, the legacy of Dr. Charles H. Wright, and The Mountaintop, written by Katori Hall and currently directed by Brian Marable at the Detroit Public Theatre.

Healthcare Administration and African American history are the paths by which Stephanie has given a lifetime of public service. Her passion for both runs deep. She organically entered the path of preserving African American history in childhood as her father founded Detroit's Charles H. Wright Museum of African American History. 

Brian Sullivan Taylor is a SAG-AFTRA actor, director, and acting coach from Southfield, Michigan. He has experience across film, television, theatre, commercial, print, and voiceover. brian is the founder of the award-winning Detroit Drama Studio, where he trains actors using the Ivana Chubbuck Technique. Brian is honored to portray Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. on The Mountaintop. 

To learn more about Detroit Public Theatre and purchase tickets to The Mountaintop, click here. 

FOR HOT TAKES:

HOLLIER DROPS SECRETARY OF STATE BID TO LAUNCH EASTSIDE STATE SENATE CAMPAIGN

Transcript

Opening, Hot Takes, And Ads

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Up next, Authentically Detroit welcomes co-chair of the Association of African American Museums, Stephanie Wright Griggs, and Brian Taylor Sullivan, one of the stars of The Mountaintop by Katori Hall and directed by Brian Maribel at the Detroit Public Theater. But first, this week's hot takes from the Michigan Chronicle. Adam Ollier is dropping his Secretary of State bid to launch an Eastside State Senate campaign. There's already some uh candidates in that race. Keep it locked, authentically, Detroit starts after these messages.

SPEAKER_02 0:27

Eastside Community Network is proud to support Rise Higher Detroit, a transition guided by community built on collaboration. Mayor Sheffield wants to hear from Detroiters, and your input in this citywide survey will help shape what comes next. Stop by ECN and ask for Juanita to complete the survey in person. Or take the survey today by visiting our website at ecnetroit.org. Winter classes have started at the Sodomar Wellness Hub from chair yoga and strength-based fitness to nutrition, cooking, and wellness focused classes. There's something for every person and every starting point. At the Stodomar, our hope is to offer movement, nourishment, and community to support you throughout the cold season. Learn more at ecn-detroit.org slash classes. Or give us a call at three one three five seven one two eight zero zero.

SPEAKER_01 1:53

What's up, Detroit? Welcome to another episode of Authentically Detroit, broadcasting live today from my living room. I'm Sam Robinson.

Donna Givens Davidson 2:00

And I'm Donnie Gibbons Davidson.

SPEAKER_01 2:03

Thank you for listening in and supporting our efforts to build a platform of authentic voices for real people in the city of Detroit. We want you to like, rate, and subscribe to our podcast on all platforms. We're here today with the co-chair of the Association of African American Museums, Stephanie Wright Griggs, and Brian Taylor Sullivan, one of the stars of the Mountaintop by Katori Hall, directed by Brian Maribel at the Detroit Public Theater. Stephanie and Brian, welcome to Authentically Detroit. How are you guys feeling today? Good, good, good. Really good.

SPEAKER_05 2:35

I'm feeling good. I I do have to make a little correction though. I am co-chair of the history project of the Association of African-American Museums. Not of the Association of African-American Museums. I don't want them coming after me.

SPEAKER_01 2:52

Well, thank you for that correction.

SPEAKER_05 2:53

Yeah, I'm out of the director, not of the whole group, you know.

Donna Givens Davidson 2:58

And she is also daughter to Dr. Wright. So Charles H. Wright's daughter. So she um definitely has history in her blood. And um, I can't wait to talk to you about that because you know I know you because of my husband, and I hear so much about you, Stephanie. Can't wait to have that conversation.

SPEAKER_05 3:17

I'm looking forward to too. You have a dynamic husband who I will say, whenever I get the chance, is largely, largely responsible for the success of the Charles H. Wright Museum. Know that. When you meet Kevin Davidson, you meet the oldest employee at the museum. Wow.

Hosts Kick Off And Guest Intros

Corrections And Charles H. Wright Legacy

SPEAKER_01 3:38

All right. It's time for hot takes where we run down some of this week's top headlines in the city of Detroit. This week we're talking about Adam Ollier. He dropped out of his Secretary of State bid to launch an east side state senate campaign. Uh, it's the third state senate district, the east side. The law market told Michigan Chronicle last week. Uh he is, he feels like he's the most experienced. He knows that he probably will have the most money and resources of any candidate running to represent the district that covers Detroit's Eastside Highland Park and into Oakland County. This is a redrawn um uh third state senate district. Uh Adam Ollier in September of last year ended his congressional district run. He wanted to challenge Shri Tanadar. Uh he joined black candidates, Deputy Secretary of State Agogo Adevier, and Lieutenant Governor Garland Gilchrist as Democratic primary candidates before he dropped out last week. Adobe A exited the race last month, saying he expected Gilchrist to become uh the nominee. Uh Olier was endorsed by Warren Evans uh when he wanted to take on Shree uh again in 24. Uh failed to turn in enough valid signatures to make the ballot, and there was some disappointment among Detroit's black establishment uh who are upset with Tanadar. Um they were really upset with Adam when he wasn't even able to make the ballot. Uh the conversation in DC was that, you know, this guy's political career is over. Of course, we knew here in Detroit that it was not. Uh Adam is a young guy in his 40s, he's got a lot of time to run for many other offices. Uh, however, there is a number of other candidates. Uh, Donna, I know that you were uh supporting Ebony Taylor at her uh launch event last week. John Conyers III is also running. Um, and Ebony is also endorsed by Stephanie Chang. She currently sits in the seat that partially represents that new district. But Donna, I'm curious to hear what you heard from Ebony at her um launch party.

Detroit Politics: Senate Races And Strategy

Donna Givens Davidson 5:39

You know, I I teach on Wednesdays, and so um I had to go first um because I had to rush out and go um teach. I'll come back to the office to teach. Um, but Stephanie Chain was there, Letitia Um Johnson was there, Denzel McCampbell, Gabrielle Santiago Romero was there, and many other people who I think had a lot of stature in the district. Um, Stephanie has been endorsed by the Working Families Party. She's got some union endorsements. She's a Ebony has been in this community, grounded in this community, and all honesty, she's on our board. So um I've known her since I've been at this organization. And I really will always lend my support. And this is what I said in my comments. If you want to know what somebody's going to do, look at what they've done. Okay. She has been a servant leader in this community, rolling up her sleeves with Mothering Justice. She's worked with Higher Heights, helping to organize support for women candidates across the nation. She's a beautiful person, a mother, a wife, a volunteer in the community, and she was asked to run for the office. I can promise you that she did not do it because of, you know, pursuing any kind of ego thing. She was asked by people in this community to represent them. And so um it's unfortunate that in the race to try to figure out who I'm gonna run for, Adam Ollier ended up in the seat of a friend, running for the seat of a friend who we went to elementary school with, um, because it certainly was um very hurtful to her for to have him do that. Um, I think you know, the question for me is I know you want to be something, but you just you're all over the place, okay? You went from Secretary of State, which I think is a really unusual kind of decision for somebody to run for Secretary of State when they have falsified petitions that they submitted to the Secretary of State and got called out. Now you want to run for Secretary of State. Um, you probably want to demonstrate for voters. So I don't know, I know that you say that it's clear his candidacy or his political life is not dead. I don't know that it's dead, but I do know, and I said this to him, I said this to John Conyers, anybody else running for office, when you run the room and you want my support, I need to see your service first and then come up and let me know what you what you want to do. Because if I see what you've done, I have a better understanding that you have something to offer our community, um, which is in need of really great representation. I'm gonna just say this final thing. Stephanie Chang is one of the greatest senators in the state of Michigan. I absolutely love Stephanie. I have so much respect for her when it comes to water shutoff, Stephanie is there proposing legislation in the state. When it comes to evictions, when it comes to um property taxes, when it comes to police violence, Stephanie shows up every single time. She writes more bills than just about anybody in, you know, I've ever seen. And so to have a representative be so effective, show up every time. I've watched her daughters grow up because she comes to all of our community events and makes sure that she keeps her fingers on the pulse of this community. We need a representative like her to replace her.

SPEAKER_01 8:46

Yeah, uh, a lot of people are going to be paying attention to that race. Uh, Donna, of course, today you also had uh Abe Ayash uh announce formally that he's gonna be running in that um first state Senate district. Uh, of course, Justin Owen um is a candidate in that race as well. And I should also say Corey Hall is a candidate in that third state Senate district as well. And so getting all of that out of the way, I mean, the conversation that I had last week and even today at this luncheon with Governor Whitmer um Garland Gilchrist comes in um uh about half an hour into the event. And so we get to talk to him sort of off uh uh, you know, uh away from Whitmer. You know, the conversations around black candidates in Michigan and how the Democratic Party supports uh the certain types of black candidates. Of course, uh last week we saw in the 35th district, Donna, that is where my parents live, Midland Bay City Saginaw. Um, we saw the uh conversation be around this uh establishment-backed candidate, uh Chedrick Green is his name. He's a fire captain versus Pam Pugh, who people view as the grassroots um uh more leftist progressive candidate there. Chedrick beat Pugh pretty handily. Um he had he had like double the campaign cash. Um so in an area like that where um people are pretty tuned out already to these sort of races, and so a special election, you know, you're completely tuned out. The candidate with the most money is probably gonna win.

Donna Givens Davidson 10:26

Um that seat sat vacant for a minute.

SPEAKER_01 10:34

It didn't, and people criticize the governor for it on both sides of the aisle.

Donna Givens Davidson 10:38

I mean, she's the she had the sole authority to call for an election in that district, and it kind of is it's disturbing only because I so strongly believe in representative government and to have my own voting rights to manage through emergency management. I hate to see um political calculus determining when people get to have representation. The people, your parents have the right to representation. I'm glad they're gonna have it, the actual elections in May, right?

SPEAKER_01 11:09

Yeah.

Donna Givens Davidson 11:10

Yeah, but that maybe the whole year to have a representation, yeah. You know, and there's so many reasons why that's important. You know, for example, if you're trying to, if you are running an organization or doing things to the community, and you're trying to get a grant from the state, a um congressional or a state directed grant from your representative, and you don't have one, it makes it that it that much harder to even access some of the resources that you know that communities need and deserve. So I'm glad to know there's going to be somebody. Um, all of my friends, um, a lot of my friends were supporting um Pampu. I was invited to a fundraiser for hers a couple weeks ago and didn't make it. So um, you know, I think the issue is getting out there early, doing the grassroots work, and everybody's not going to make it, but we've seen a definite movement towards the left in our state politics, actually across the nation. You're seeing more grassroots uh progressives winning campaigns, and unfortunately, she did not. I don't really know much about her opponents.

Money, Turnout, And Special Elections

SPEAKER_01 12:12

Sure. Uh, he is a fire captain. Uh, we've had a lot of good fire captain uh candidates. One, uh James Harris, uh, he ran as a fire captain. He did not come close to beating uh Mary nor Coleman Young. However, uh, a lot of people were excited about his campaign. We're gonna see how this guy, I think the uh Republican candidate up there uh beat a former Dow chemical uh director or some sort of leader. I think he's a sort of a grassroots. The Republicans did actually get the more uh less establishment um candidate in that race. So uh how about we take a break and then we come on back and we talk to Brian and Stephanie uh all about, well, I I really want to hear about this this play and and Stephanie, the of course, the work uh that you're doing. Uh we're gonna take a break and we will see you guys on the decide. For us, that means we just sit here until we go back on. Okay. All right. Welcome back, everyone. Healthcare administration and African American history are the paths by which Stephanie has given a lifetime of public service. Her passion for both runs deep. She organically entered the path of preserving African American history and childhood as her father funded Detroit's Charles H. Wright Museum of African-American History. Stephanie's passion for the preservation of African American history extends well beyond Detroit. Currently, she's working with the Association of African-American Museums as the co-chair of the 50th anniversary project and a member of the Burroughs Wright Scholarship Selection Committee. Brian Sullivan Taylor, an actor, director, acting coach from Southfield, Michigan. He has experience across film television theater, commercial print, and voiceover. Brian, you are the founder of the award-winning Detroit Drama Studio, where he trains actors using the Ivana Chubik technique. I want to hear more about that. Uh, Brian made his professional acting debut in 2017 in Detroit Public Theaters Award-nominated production of Dominique Marisot's Skeleton Crew. His theater credits include 67, Sunset Baby, Jesus hopped the A-Train, the world premiere of Into the Side of a Hill at Flint Repertory Theater, and the Michigan premiere of Halftime with Don at Tipping Point Theater. On screen, Brian can be seen on Amazon's Amazon Prime's H-block, McGraw Ave as Detective Harvey. I went back and watched some of those clips uh before doing that. He made his directorial debut in 2023 at Tipping Point Theater with their award-winning production of Driving Miss Daisy. Brian is honored to portray Dr. Martin Luther King in the Mountaintop. Brian, let's start with you and the Mountain Top. Donna, you you saw it over the weekend. I did not. It is running, you said through March? Until March 8th. It closes March 8th, Sunday, March 8th.

Donna Givens Davidson 15:15

Yeah, so listen.

SPEAKER_00 15:16

Yeah.

Transition To Theater And Museum Talk

Donna Givens Davidson 15:17

I was um went there and I knew it was a play about um Dr. Martin Luther King, but this is a Dr. King I've never seen before. Um talk about the role and what you were seeking to portray in Dr. King.

Brian On Playing Dr. King In The Mountaintop

SPEAKER_00 15:32

Um well, I I'll start by saying this this role is definitely the heaviest lift that I've ever had to do. Um because it's a blend of his actual life and you know things that did occur in this fictionalized setting. Um I I'm a member of Alpha 5 Fraternity Incorporated, and um telling my age, I'm almost 20 years in. But I've had the opportunity over years to go to conventions and things and uh meet brothers who actually knew him, like knew him. It's kind of in the way that you see him in the play. Um, so years, it's it's been years of me getting this information before I was even, you know, before even God even put this in my hands to do this role. Um, so it's it has its challenges, but it's fun because you know, we've always seen Dr. King, for lack of better words, as a superhero. And we just assume that all of our heroes are just otherworldly and they have powers that we don't, where in actuality he really was just a man. There's a there's a part of the play, I'm not giving it away, but just where I'm I'm saying I'm just a man. I'm just a man. Like despite what the world may see me as, at the root of it, I am just a man. Um and it's just it's been such an exploration for me, just exploring him as the man versus the symbol. And I'm still discovering things. Like when you see it, Sam, whenever you see it, if you see it March 8th, the show at Donosaw will be totally different because I have so many more discoveries. It's gonna be a great experience.

Donna Givens Davidson 17:11

It was uh um, but you you you played a strong figure, and you know, I saw these moments in time without giving away the play where you were moving into that charismatic leader role. But that was very little of what you did. Yeah, and so um, you know, I wonder about that. Um, in his interpersonal life and talking to people, was Dr. King a charismatic person, or was he just a dude who knew how to put it on stage and then went back and he was just another brother, you know, in the room?

SPEAKER_00 17:46

I I think he was definitely a brother in the room. But I also what I what I what I learned in my research, so my my my um I'm I'm gonna go to church with you for a second. So my barber, he is um, he's cogic and he always he always laughs and jokes with me, like you Baptists, because I'm Baptist, like you Baptists always do something on Sunday and then do another thing on Monday. And you know, my Luther King was a Baptist preacher. And and and you know, he he he he had his trials and tribulations, but uh what made him special was his command of language and how he was able to use his charisma and his intelligence and his command of language to get people to see his vision and his dreams. And behind closed doors, that didn't too much change. It was just in public, we got the symbol, and his friends, Ralph, Jesse, and everybody around him, and you know, obviously Coretta, she got to see the flawed version of himself, the relaxed, stressed, insecure version of himself, and I think he knew that just where he was at the time and being in the public eye and what his symbolism meant to all of us and the rest of the world, that he had to be Martin Luther King Jr., whereas back at home he could be Michael. Oh, I'm not giving away too much, sorry, y'all.

Donna Givens Davidson 19:12

But that's okay. Um, you don't get it though, right? But um it was amazing um to learn those types of things and made me think about how invisible the other people in his life were. He was a personality, but when you saw the side of him that you portrayed, you just wanted to go hug Coretta, you know, and the kids. If I was his daughter, I'd be like, no, no, don't show my daddy like that. You know how we are about our daddy, no, no, don't don't show that. Um how how is the family? So has the family seen this play?

SPEAKER_00 19:49

Uh, you know, I I'm not sure. I have to assume so, because the play was originally produced in 2009, and Samuel Jackson and Angela Bassett um did the original version uh in New York. Um, so I don't have I don't have actual 100% evidence that they've seen it, but I'm pretty sure they have to be familiar with it. Because his daughter is she's a huge activist as well. So I just have to assume that they've seen it you know in almost 20 years of it being running.

Donna Givens Davidson 20:15

Yeah, okay. And just um one more question about that. It was written by Katori Hall. Yes, and Katori Hall is a household name for another piece of work. Can we talk about that?

Charisma, Symbol Vs. Man

SPEAKER_00 20:29

So it was so funny because I didn't put two and two together for we were probably like a week into rehearsal because when so Katori Hall is also the writer and executive producer of another hot show called P Valley on Stars. And my wife, she used to watch the show all the time. She kind of fell off. But we were in the rehearsal room, and I and I'm familiar with Katori's Hall, her name, but it just wasn't registering to me. And when I started reading the script, and one day our director was like, Yeah, you know, Katori, she does P Valley. I was like, wow, because these are two different pieces, but it just shows her artistic range that she can do a show like that and write this well-crafted play about Martin Luther King.

Donna Givens Davidson 21:08

I saw some connections. I mean, honestly, I think that what she's able to do is she's able to lift up human beings who are overlooked and give them agency and give them face and make them sympathetic and connect to connect. And so, um, and with a special focus on you know, certain groups of people, certainly black people who are everyday blue-collar folks, not your special folks. And so, what I saw without giving away the play was this connection between this great man and this woman who was very, very ordinary. I really hadn't read about the book. I expect to see Ralph Abernath. I was waiting for Jesse to have blood on his shirt. I was ready for everything, but what I saw, it was, you know, this because you you don't think of the king with the people who are not, you know, in. His realm. So that was that was a shift. But there was a lot of humorous moments.

SPEAKER_00 22:06

Yes.

Donna Givens Davidson 22:07

Um, can I say that you guys are smoking?

SPEAKER_00 22:10

Yes, that's fine. You can say in advance. Yes, yeah.

Donna Givens Davidson 22:14

Tell people, listen. And it so yeah, it felt very realistic. I'm just gonna say those are herbal cigarettes.

SPEAKER_00 22:20

Oh, yes, those were herbal cigarettes because I am not a smoker at all. And I look at my my nose is stuffy now when you said smoke, but yes, this is it's all herbal or natural.

Donna Givens Davidson 22:30

I don't know whether you're acting or not, but that those herbs smell like tobacco. I was like, wow, this is very realistic. And other the the set, oh my goodness, that set was amazing. I've been to the Detroit Public Theater in the old building.

SPEAKER_00 22:46

Yes.

Donna Givens Davidson 22:47

This is a brand new space, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 22:49

Yes, yes, it's about three years old, but uh what they're able to do now, you know, with all the stuff you saw, I'm not giving away because y'all need to come see it. Yes, um, it's it's an amazing experience. It just completely immerses you even more as an actor where you can really like just zone out and be in the moment.

Donna Givens Davidson 23:09

So you are a Detroiter, yeah.

Katori Hall’s Range And Human Focus

SPEAKER_00 23:12

Listen, okay. Only only I'm a Metro Detroiter. My friends always tease me because you know, I'm I'm from Southfield, and all my friends are from Detroit. So they're like, you know, you from Southfield. Don't get over here lying like you're from Detroit. Like all the same.

Donna Givens Davidson 23:26

Are you Lathrop or high?

SPEAKER_00 23:28

Lathrop.

Donna Givens Davidson 23:30

Lethrop. So uh were you there when our current mayor was um at Lathrop?

SPEAKER_00 23:35

Oh, current mayor?

Donna Givens Davidson 23:37

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 23:38

Oh, oh, Mary. I'm sorry. Funny enough, Mary, Mary's uh, I think she's a year older older than I, and I was in high school with her, and I was in the same year with Kyrie Harris Bowden, our our uh Supreme Court justice. So I was in school with both of them at the same time.

Donna Givens Davidson 23:54

So you can't later folks are trying to give Cash Tech a run for his money. Oh, yes, yes. They're coming for y'all.

SPEAKER_01 24:04

You got any stories that you'd like to share for us? Either either one of those folks. I mean, what well, you know.

SPEAKER_00 24:10

Well, I have I have a story about Kyra. Um, so Kyra has always been on this track. Like, we weren't surprised when she ran and and you know, got a late. We weren't surprised at all. When we were in ninth grade, we had an honor civics class together. And our teacher, Mr. Menedeo, every single Tuesday, he would require us to bring in articles from the news, and then we'd have to debate them. And it came to a time where me and Kyra were like the two debate leads in class, and I was a really huge wrestling fan at the time. And I had this big WWF title belt. I told Kyra, I said, I challenge you to take my belt because I just really didn't think she could do it. To this day, when I see Kyra, she'll probably come to the show. I always joke, like, I've never seen my belt since because we battled, she won it, and she's always been like an advocate and like a legal. It makes sense that she is who she is today. Yeah. I wish I could get my belt back. Maybe she'll see the show.

SPEAKER_01 25:05

That's a fantastic story. I'm glad I asked you that because that's really a great story.

Donna Givens Davidson 25:12

All right. So um, Sam, do you have more questions? Any questions?

Set Design, New DPT Space, Detroit Roots

SPEAKER_01 25:16

Yeah, I want to ask Brian. Um, you know, people see you on TV. I looked you up and you know, I go through your IMDB, but you know, I see people the chatter on on social media and you know, your family and friends proud when they get to see you. Um, you know, for people who want to get into acting young people, uh, where do you where do you start? Where did you start? At what point did you realize that it was going to be possible to do what you do now?

SPEAKER_00 25:40

Um, the very I the very first place I started was I had to give the utmost credit to um my band teacher in middle school, Randy Scott. He's like a working saxophonist. Yes, you know Randy Scott?

Donna Givens Davidson 25:52

Randy Scott, my my three children had Randy Scott at um Bernie. So I know he went to elementary school. You may have known my daughter, um, but that's another story. Go on.

Early Inspiration And Training For Actors

SPEAKER_00 26:03

So, Mr. Scott, every band concert, he would always require kids to get up and speak, uh, like to introduce different sections. And he let me do it once, and I just ran away with it. And it got to a point where he was like, I'm not even giving you a script, just go up there and talk, Brian. He was like, People love you when you go, just do it. He gave me the inspiration and courage to like talk in front of crowds and just to be me. Um, and from there, um, in high school, I joined the Mosaic Youth Theater of Detroit under Rick Sperling and Kate Peckham and Jasmine Rivera, and they molded me and taught me what it was to be a professional actor. Mosaic is like, it's not the normal like youth kid theater. Like they train you like professional actors. Um, and from there, years past, years past, years past, I had the opportunity to connect with one of the world's greatest acting coaches, Ivana Chubik. She is actually responsible for Halle Berry's Oscar and Charlie Starron's Oscar. Um she happens to be from Detroit. And I went to LA for a couple of months, trained with her, got certified. She she whooped on me and whipped me in the shape. Actually, coming into this audition for this role, I worked with Ivana and her daughter for like two months to prep. And Ivana was like, You're gonna get this role. And I was like, Well, Ivana, I don't know, you know, she was like, You're gonna get it because we're working and you're gonna get it. And I would tell anybody, any any young actor or or any young artist in general, whatever the art is, dance, painting, whatever, instrument, you have to train. I see a lot of people just jumping out, just trying stuff because mama told them, you know, baby, you you're gonna be a star. But like with anything, you have to work at getting better. Um, and I always say, five, find a coach in whatever it is you do, find the resources um that can help you get better. I still I coach actors, I'm an adjunct faculty at the College for Creative Studies where I teach job chuppy technique, and I still get coached. I still get trained. Um, so that's that's what I would say. Find somebody who can train you.

Donna Givens Davidson 28:02

You know, um, it's so interesting that you mentioned both Randy and Rick Sperling. So Randy was um everybody's favorite teacher, I think, at Bernie Middle School. He was phenomenal and um still is. You know, my son was in his jazz band. He got to open up, I think, for Earl Clue or something like that. Um, you know, he he did so many wonderful things. I have nothing but love for him. But Rick Sperling is actually now um working with a lady named Nafisa Simonet, and they formed the Detroit Excellence Youth Arts Organization to try to ensure that more young people have arts in their schools. And so you are such an example of how arts of school can change lives.

SPEAKER_00 28:43

Yes, it definitely changed mine.

SPEAKER_05 28:47

Stephen on a historical note. My father was in Selmud during the uh march across the Pettus Bridge, and he was down there working the first aid station. And while he was in this first aid station, he was part of a chain of communication that had to get to Dr. King that they should not come all the way across the Pettus Bridge because the state troopers were gonna shut them off on the bridge and attack them. Oh wow. And he actually had a conversation with Dr. King right after that to see, you know, how he felt and whether or not he had gotten the message clearly, and he said he had, so that's just a little aside.

Donna Givens Davidson 29:28

In a major life, wasn't that the impetus for him coming back and um creating the museum that merch? No, it was not okay.

SPEAKER_05 29:41

He so he started the museum. He probably started the museum actually as a little boy growing up in Dothan, because he saw all the trauma, he saw the drama, but he had decided at the age of six when my grandmother said, Well, why don't you become a doctor? They're well respected. He he felt that was a good idea and set on that path. But he had some pretty traumatic experiences as a little boy. One that wasn't so traumatic, but you remember always was they wouldn't give him a library card. And they told him he could come after hours, and he said, No, I'm not gonna do that. So he found another way to uh you know get books and read. He went to Alabama State. Alabama state had never had anyone go to Maharry Medical College ever in the history of the school, and he knew he had to be really prepared, so he took courses and classes on the side, and he got into Alabama State. I mean, got into Maharry and he graduated sixth in his class in terms of you know that whole moving forward. But while he was at Maharry, this shows you the rebel uh warrior side of him. He would leave medical school and go work on the local politician's campaign. Uh, a guy in Tennessee was one of the first people I think that run for city council. And I thought, boy, but yeah, and they were getting upset with him. He said he would still do it, and he graduated sixth in his class.

Donna Givens Davidson 31:09

Wow. Yeah, but you know, the museum itself was incorporated though, right after that merch in 1965. Yes. So there's maybe there um Kevin had it in his mind that somehow that merch inspired him, but you're saying his inspiration was really uh a childhood. You said he grew up in Tulsa.

SPEAKER_05 31:31

Dolphin.

Stephanie On Dr. Wright: Origins And Vision

Donna Givens Davidson 31:32

Dulce.

SPEAKER_05 31:33

Dolce, Alabama. Alabama. Okay, Alabama. And to finish, to fast forward to what really inspired him, he went, he was sent to Africa twice on uh health survey uh program. He went to uh Dahomey, he went to Sierra Leone, he went to Nigeria, then he went to Liberia. And as part of that trip, he would visit really in the interior of these countries. He wasn't saying in the large cities because they wanted feedback. He and another black doctor were sent, and they wanted feedback on the actual status of health in out in the really remote areas. And what struck him was he said when he walked into these villages, the first thing he would see or be greeted with was a grio telling him the history of their tower. Now, this is way out in the bush, guys, in the 60s, coming up to this stranger doing this, and then they would take him to this. They said in each town he they had this a small area that showed artifacts and told the story of the history of that village. That's what triggered because he said, if you can have if I can find this in the most rural part of Africa, what are we not doing in the United States to uplift us and our children? That was part of the really front-faced motivation to come back and say, I am going to make a difference in this country by starting a museum of African-American history because I believe children should not only be physically healthy, but mentally healthy and have the knowledge of history that'll cause them to really appreciate and withstand some of the trauma that affects us.

Donna Givens Davidson 33:16

So, question um when the museum started, where did it start?

SPEAKER_05 33:22

Oh, it started in our our old home on the boulevard. We used to live there, and he converted the house into the first museum. 1549 West Grand Boulevard. The museum was there from 1965 to 19, uh, really about 87.

SPEAKER_04 33:38

Wow.

SPEAKER_05 33:39

Yes, a whole lot of act, a whole lot of activity took place there. I I, you know, when I think about all the things that took place there and the impact it had on the city, it's amazing. It's it's absolutely amazing. It was the first place back black artists could show their work. The museum had a small gallery, and black artists started bringing their work, and folks were coming through, and that was part of the whole program. It wasn't the program because it is and was a history museum, but the early museums knew they had to really support all members of the community. So you, when you look closely at the early museums, they all had a piece for art because we know the large white institutions were not looking at their art, our art.

Donna Givens Davidson 34:24

All right, so how did that impact you? Having that museum in your home?

Founding The Museum At Home And Early Exhibits

SPEAKER_05 34:29

Oh, we weren't there. Okay, oh, we had moved, but it was so pretty weird. I I remember saying uh at an event, I was it was so I was shocked to walk back in my bedroom and see it converted into an exhibition space. And I've never forgotten that because I was like, but you know how you're going now. I kind of see what my father was up to because the whole house was converted, and his office, which was in the basement, this was this was his first office in Detroit, and it had a side entrance. That actually became the first underground railroad. I mean, yeah, the underground railroad and the middle passage.

Donna Givens Davidson 35:03

Oh wow. So you had an underground railroad and middle passage in that house in the early days, yes. Oh my goodness. I I didn't know that those types of exhibits existed there.

SPEAKER_05 35:14

Oh, yeah. He was he was the forerunner of a lot of it in terms of the whole movement, and that's why he and Dr. Burroughs here really co-founded the association, which is the association for all the museums of African-American history throughout the country, which now numbers about 200, 300.

Donna Givens Davidson 35:32

And so you are um on one of the committees for the the association that your father started.

SPEAKER_05 35:40

Right. The 50th anniversary of this association is coming up in two years, which is a huge deal. And a group of us got together and said, you know, we really need to document the history of this association because it ties back to all the individual work the museums have been doing, you know, for the past 50 years. So that's how this got started. And we're interviewing and pulling information together. So that's that's what that is. And we hope to have some kind of presentation after at the 50th celebration, which is due to be in Detroit, because that's where the founding meeting was held in 1978, the Association of African-American Museums Incorporated in Detroit.

Donna Givens Davidson 36:19

So lately, people have been really um excited about what's happening in the museum in light of what's happening nationally with you know the museums and the attack on black history. Um what do you see on a national level and how has it changed the um the black museum movement? How has that changed in from the time it got started until now? What should we be looking at?

Building AAAM And Facing Today’s Headwinds

SPEAKER_05 36:47

Oh, I think they um I well, there's a need to come together more than ever before, and that's been happening at our uh yearly conferences because there's a need to just support each other. You know, this current administration wiped out a whole agency that supported museums. So there museums right now are very vulnerable, and of course, the most vulnerable are museums of African American history. I mean, we all know that. So these are difficult times, but people are supporting each other. People are standing up to uh, I wouldn't say individual attacks, but there have been some museums that have really lost a lot of funding just because they don't have alternative funding other than the government. And that's really been the key. If you have funding from other sources in the federal government, you'll probably have a better chance of withstanding it. But the group together is very strong in saying we know one of the main goals of this administration is to wipe out our history. We've understood it, it's been there, it's there, and it will be there. And this is one more attack we have to withstand and keep on doing what we're doing. And that's collecting, preserving, and exhibiting our history because it is American history. And I'm glad we finally say that because for a long time we couldn't say that. And by the way, this year is the hundredth year of Carter G. Woodson starting Negro History Week, which I'm glad to say is now a month. But if you're in the African American Museum movement, we use it as the kickoff month for a whole year because you should really celebrate our history 365 days out of the year, right?

Donna Givens Davidson 38:23

I remember in um in second grade being really excited because I won the black ribbon during Black History Week at my elementary school. Umrator, I like to talk then too, so I gotta do that. And you know, black was the top ribbon, and then you had um green and then red, and the amount of pride I had in second grade being a black girl, getting my ribbon, um, really speaks to the importance of this type of history. We don't necessarily need it, but that whole week was just a celebration of blackness. And you know, my mother was an artist, and so um my sister won because my mother um helped her draw a portrait of Frederick Douglass, but um I won on my own merits, okay? I didn't need my mother's. It was like really competitive trying to figure out who's gonna do it, you know. We went to the auditoriums, and so we do have to always honor Carter G. Woodson. Um, is that happening by the museum association? Is there any special recognition that you guys are helping to usher in? Or, you know, are you aware of that?

SPEAKER_05 39:32

I think the museums, because we're a membership organization, that is a membership organization, they do it at their own level. You know, museums of African American history have been celebrating uh Black History Month forever, because Carter G. Woodson came before most of the museums of African American history. I see the group, museum group, as extending what he did and expanding on it and making it full-blown because you also have the association of Negro Life and History, but they're more the academicians, the scholars. They the museums show, exhibit, educate.

Donna Givens Davidson 40:05

Yeah. I'm really interested, though, in very specifically Carter G. Woodson and his role in some of this stuff because a lot of young people don't know who he is. And um, I think it's important to elevate the fact that he um he he played such an important role in the documenting and celebration of black people in the black life, you know.

Why Black History Gets Targeted

SPEAKER_05 40:25

Well, he did. He did, he founded the association of Negro Life and History. I think he was the first PhD to graduate from Harvard in history, and interestingly enough, and I just recently found that out, the Association of Negro Life and History started here in Chicago. I did not know that. They have an association here. I just hadn't picked up on that. I saw something because they were celebrating the 100th. So it's you know, it's very good to also celebrate anniversaries because it reminds people of what you've accomplished. And I would, you know, too, of live to see the museum, Jose Strip Museum of African-American history turn 60 years old is breathtaking. It's breathtaking. When I think of my father and my sister and I, he would say to us, let's go sell memberships. He'd take a folding table and three chairs, and we'd go sit out on Woodward. This was back in the day when you could just go out on Woodward and sell trinkets on a Sunday. You didn't need a permit, you didn't need anything, you could just go out and sell stuff. And we would sit there and sell memberships. And what struck me was I was about 11 or 12, I looked around and everybody else was selling trinkets. And at that time, I realized my father was selling a vision and how different that was. You know, we weren't selling bag of potato chips or anything, we were selling a membership to an organization that had not yet truly started, but his vision and his conversation with people was actually saying, I want to donate to this cause, and they would take out a membership right there.

Donna Givens Davidson 42:02

And we're still doing it today. Yes. So how how what would you say to people who are new to the museum, um, Charles H. Wright Museum, that so many people are moving to Detroit? What is the significance that you see of this museum right now?

SPEAKER_05 42:19

Well, I think you have to continue the education because in the schools, actually, this is more crucial now than ever because no one is teaching African American history anymore. I was surprised to find out the Detroit School Board has no more money to bring the buses that used to come in the 70s and 80s and somewhat into the 90s to the museum. What? Yes, that has been cut out. I found that out last year when I was visiting the museum and talking to staff because I was like, I don't see school buses anymore. Well, they don't have the money. The principal can sometimes do a fundraiser and bring his, but I and I was so taken back. And I said, and I have been talking about this to my at the building I can. Museums of African American history should take on teaching African American history. That should be a charge. One of the interesting things about my father was when he started the museum, he felt people should know African history. He held African history classes for people who were coming on board to work or be yeah, a volunteer at the museum as he was starting the museum. He collected several black PhDs from Oakland University in the 60s, and they agreed to teach classes, and he gave out certificates. Yes, as a as a precursor to understand what you were getting into if you were going to work with this organization. Isn't that wild?

SPEAKER_01 43:51

I'm loving your ability to recollect these stories and these moments. Well, I'm I'm just right.

SPEAKER_05 43:57

I want to because I realize I'm gonna. The few people that's really a living witness to the history for the whole 60 years. I witnessed it from the beginning. I was there and I am still here. And it's amazing, it's an amazing feeling to see the impact the museum has had, not just locally, but also nationally, you know, in terms of a place, because our history is so critical. And to get back to your question, Donna, people should be encouraged as new citizens to come in and join and keep the momentum going. Because now, more than ever, they are destroying our history. Now, I don't know that Charles H. Rice wants to put a sign out in front, because that might be a little much, but this is what is going on. Yeah. And do we understand why?

Donna Givens Davidson 44:49

That's a really good question.

SPEAKER_05 44:52

Um because they are threatened by our accomplishments in spite of all the trauma that we have suffered.

Museums As Classrooms And Youth Programs

Donna Givens Davidson 45:12

I'm just thinking after George Floyd, there were so many books on the New York Times best selling um book list that documented, you know, um, you know, how to be an anti-racist, you know, um, white fragility, and um, you know, we have books like Black A of History, and there's so much scholarship that became part of the public domain. And I really think that there is a backlash to truth. That how do I continue seeing myself as this supreme being when people have used scholarship to break down all of the ways that my ancestors have done horrible things and the way that I do horrible things right now, you can't really justify white supremacy if you know the truth. So you gotta take away the truth so that you continue justifying your position on top of the world. So I remember thinking, even as I was reading these books, I was on a board and they sent everybody, you know, um, a copy of um of um how to be an anti-racist. You must read this book, you know. And all the racist people on the board I was with really recoiled, right? And they told me, listen, they told me this white man told me he did not feel safe around me. He didn't feel safe speaking his mind. And I was like, well, that's probably a good idea because you're not, because you know. Um, but I think that, you know, it it's in his heart, you know, because children of these people. I was when I was in high school, I didn't have the privilege of going to CAS. I went to Mercy High School, and we went, we had this class called social consciousness. And the social consciousness, we learned all about multinational corporations, and we learned about how Nestle was having these women use infant formula and they couldn't afford the infant formula, and their breast milk had dried up and babies were dying or they're getting sick because they were using, and this girl went home and she screamed her dad, how could you do this? You know, because you did that work for Nestle. You know, you don't want your children to learn in school who you are. And so I think trying to turn back the clock is trying to preserve something that really cannot be preserved because no matter how many kit rack shows you have, no matter how many 20 million people watch that, 125 watch that bunny, okay? You can't put that back. You can't somehow maintain it, but there's this desire to hold on to something that in my mind is already lost. I don't think this is going to be a winning proposition. Our responsibility in the meantime is to keep knowledge alive for children who are being harmed. Because even if this doesn't last forever, there's I've got a um six, oh my goodness, she's an eight-year-old granddaughter right now, and a grandson who's two, a grandson who's six months old, he's almost three. Um they are being raised in a world where truth is being actively, you know, you know, taken away. And again, I know that they're gonna get to the other place. And if, you know, raised by me and their parents and other people in our circle, they'll get a correct reading of history, but so many children won't, unless they have an opportunity to go to Charles Wright, you know, and other museums that teach them truth. So it's good to know that. Um, somehow I was not aware, but you know, I know friends. I have I I think that gives us something to advocate for at the community level to make sure that we can take bust the kids there, especially in a time such as this. Because we know also that Detroit public schools used to have an African-American curriculum that they were incorporating into the classroom. I don't know if the extent of which that's being done anymore. We used to have schools like um Natabe Nataki Taliba and the Kinsaroma Institute and others in Aisha Shule, they're really African-centered and very intentional about teaching their students that. And those opportunities are drying up, so the museum feels like it's more important now than just about ever.

Desegregating Detroit Hospitals In The 1950s

SPEAKER_05 49:16

Well, the whole education piece is so crucial. And I'm very proud of the Camp Africa that Charles H. Wright offers now because that is a summer curriculum for students, as well as they've off, I think they're also offering it when the schools are like out of session for spring break. So that's a chance. But I mean, with everything going on at the current government level, you have to counter it with something almost equally forceful or not for more forceful. And if you start children young, it gets incorporated into their lives in terms of how they think about themselves. Because my father was very concerned about self-respect and self-resilience. He wanted all the babies he delivered to have that as well as a healthy body. How many babies was that? Oh, uh, close to 7,000 with his partners. With his partners, let me set the record straight. He did not deliver them all by himself. He had two partners that actually enabled him to go and do ropes and talks and talk about the museum and get on a plane and fly ever. They were delivering the babies right along with him. But yes, his practice uh delivered 7,000 babies.

Donna Givens Davidson 50:30

Where's his practice located?

SPEAKER_05 50:32

It was located at first at 1549, the first museum, and then it moved to 50 Westminster, right off of Woodward, on the west side of Detroit, and it stayed there until he retired. And that was an interesting statement of his commitment to the community, too, because in the 70s, when you had more and more ladies on Medicaid, and those of us who were awfully mobile was were moving to the suburbs. He had some of his friends left the community and went to the burbs. He stayed in the community till he retired. Till he retired. And some would argue he didn't make as much money as he could have, but he said that was not my issue. My issue was to stay and help the community and support the community.

Donna Givens Davidson 51:21

So, one more question about your dad. Um, I've also heard about a role he played in helping to desegregate some of the hospitals in the city of Detroit.

unknown 51:31

Yeah.

Family History, Exhibits, And Community Honors

SPEAKER_05 51:32

He was a civil rights uh fighter. When he came back to Detroit after he had gotten his uh he was boarded in obstetrician gynecology at Harlem. He went there for three years to uh finish that residency. That's where I was born. When he came back with me and my mother, he wanted to practice as an obstetrician gynecologist. Well, the practice in the hospitals was a black doctor could admit their patient, but a white doctor had to deliver the patient. And they were different. The uh physicians in uh internal medicine had issues too. So a group of black doctors came together and said, we will take on the specialties and desegregate the practice in these hospitals. So my father took on what is now Hutsell Hospital, was women's hospital. And he went to the head administrator and said, you know, we really should look at change in this issue here. And she went, so he went to the senator uh of the state of Michigan, found out about the Hilburton Act, which was a federal bill that funded hospitals and gave them their money, but there was not supposed to be any discrimination. And over time, he developed a platform and went back in and told the woman, look, the senator's gonna help me, and we're gonna defund this hospital if you do not give us privileges to admit and deliver our patients. And that's what did it. And other doctors in Hudson, other doctors in the city of Detroit kind of use the same platform, they found their power and they exercised the politics necessary and made the change. And that, you know, that's what it's about finding your power and coming together and making it work. It was a small band of doctors, and he was the lead for OB Gyne because that was his specialty. What year was that? Uh, like 53. Wow, 54, 1953, 54, found in there. Wow, it's that game. There, you know, black patients went to a some little unit somewhere and occasionally got care.

SPEAKER_01 53:39

And that conversation still is one that we have today about around black maternal health.

SPEAKER_05 53:44

I know. And he felt very strongly about teenage pregnancy. Well, that was part of the reason he stayed where he stayed, too, because even though he wasn't for it, he felt everyone should have a healthy prenatal experience and deliver a healthy baby, and then take the steps to help that situation so the child, you know, has a better opportunity. I wrote many papers on the need to support and really look at teenage pregnancy as something that requires community support.

Donna Givens Davidson 54:20

Well, life well lived. And um, so what what do you do professionally? I know that you are on the what what in what ways did you follow in your father's footsteps?

SPEAKER_05 54:33

Um, well, the association work was definitely following him because I I sort of watched him develop and work with the association, and then now that I'm not really working full-time, I said, let me get back and do that. And then the other piece, um, I really had the opportunity to explore my mother's history. I don't know if you saw that on my resume, but I feel so lucky that I've got so much history on both sides of my family. I now my grandma told me and my sister when we were small about her story. She would take pictures out and show us the folks. Fast forward, fast forward, she passes. I'm older, I have the energy. I said to my sister and my daughter, we need to go down to Mattoons, Mattoon, Illinois. Well, when we got there, the librarian was looking at us like, Where have you been? And we were like, What are you talking about? This man ushered us down to the basement library, started bringing out these books. Our family was on the front page of the Mattoon Gazette in the 1800s.

SPEAKER_04 55:39

Wow.

How To Preserve Family Stories Now

SPEAKER_05 55:40

I my mouth fell open. I said, This is that was the sign I have to do the uh exhibit. I have to do this exhibit. I mean, it was like, oh my god. So we, you know, copied it and took it back. And uh condensing the story, I decided to do an exhibit. I had contacts. I had a contact here as well as in Detroit, but the curator I knew from Du Sabo was the one that really helped me. And I put together uh my exhibit, picture perfect, zealous traveling scrapbook. And it tells the story of how my great-great-grandparents came up through Tennessee, going towards Kankakee to get away from slavery, got off at a little gathering where their folks were, it wasn't incorporated or anything. They found out my that great-great-grandfather was a barber and they asked him to stay. And like they say, after that, the rest is history, and it tells her story growing up in this town, and she went on to be the first person to graduate, black woman, black person to graduate from Eastern Illinois University. So look at all I was just discovering all this unknown history. So I took my exhibit back to Eastern. I made a contact and I took it there, they had a nice ceremony, and then they they said, We are thinking about renaming a dorm, and we want to honor black people. And after a lot of politicking, and a woman on the school newspaper had found out about my grandmother too and was helping me because she supported it. They renamed one of their dorms, they wanted to get rid of Stephen Douglas. If you don't know who he was, he was the anti-Lincoln person back in those days who wanted slavery, and Lincoln was politically against slavery, so they renamed the dorm Powell Norton. My grandmother's maiden name was Powell. Wow. All for bringing history, and then when I took it to Mattoon, where she grew up, and this really surprised me because I didn't know they were gonna do this, and I had it in the library, they had a program, and the mayor gave me the key to the city. Wow, isn't that amazing? I mean, I I I tell people the story because I'm saying, don't think there isn't some reward out there for bringing your history. These were predominantly white people I was dealing with, folks, you know, especially Mattoon, because Mattoon, I see why everybody left. And I, you know, you have so much understanding of your family when you do that kind of digging too.

SPEAKER_04 58:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 58:07

Because at one point in time, black barbers were the king of the road back in the day. You know, black barbers, that's how they made their money, and that was what my great-great-grandfather and great-grandfather were. But um, to see this reaction, I've told people, I said, do your history, trace your history. You never know what you're gonna find. And if you have the ability, and we all don't, to take it and share it, you don't know what may happen.

Donna Givens Davidson 58:35

You know what? Um, on that note, I'm actually writing a novel right now that is really trying to depict so much of Detroit history. Um it's lost. And so um, I'm not really putting my family in there um directly, but I'm drawing on their experiences because I think it's so important that um that we tell the stories. And you know, I w I teach a class about the history, but people don't read history books. So if people make it a novel, hopefully somebody will read it. They don't read that either, right? But that's that that telling the story, carrying on the history books. My mother used to always say, please write a book about our family. Um, but I love my family members, and so um, as long as some of them are still living, I'm probably gonna keep some of those secrets. Um stage.

SPEAKER_05 59:26

No, you have to make that choice because you know, part of the problem with history is we all want to tell the good stories and we want to tell some of the bad stories, but we don't have to beat up on ourselves. I mean, I'm telling the bad stories.

Donna Givens Davidson 59:41

I'm telling some stories now. Okay, there's some stories, I'm just not putting any names behind any of these stories. That's another way to do it. And there's some positive, yeah. Not just my stories, but the stories I've heard of people, so many people, you know, in my line of work, I work with people from all walks of life, and that's the beautiful part about Detroit is the captory, all these different people make us who we are, and and and really trying to celebrate. So it's really a love letter to Detroit in some ways, although other people may see it as you know an indictment, but you know, they probably should. Um, but the point is to tell stories and to keep our history alive. And I just want to honor you for doing that because you don't have to, and um, and also I want to honor you for telling your mother's story. I'm a mama's girl, okay. And um, a lot of times we celebrate men. I was talking about it with Kevin the other day. We know about Martin Luther King and we know what he thought, we know all this. We know so little about Coretta.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:43

Yes, yes, okay.

Donna Givens Davidson 1:00:45

We know about Malcolm X and we know who Betty Shabazz is, but we know so little about her, how she felt, what she was going through. And we know how brilliant women influence the men they're with. We know that Coretta helped shape everything he was. We know that Betty helped hit helped shape everything he was, and I know that your mother helped shape your father, played a big role.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:09

Library, you know, the library at the museum is named after Louise Loving Ray. Yeah, uh, and then and see that's another area where um we, the people in the museum world, have to do something. We're all very concerned about what's gonna happen with all the papers that have already been saved. The current administration just as soon destroyed the archives when you think about it. How do we preserve the papers that have already been saved? And how do we save future contributions and stories that people are collecting and they want to bring to your museum? So we are in a time that's gonna require a lot of new thinking and uh I think just a different approach, but it's it's gonna be challenging. But I people have asked me occasionally what would my father say? And I said, you know, he would say, Nobody ever told you the struggle's over. So take a deep breath and get ready to keep stepping. That would be, and that would be Dr. Burroughs, too. That group was so um salt of the earth, they they didn't have time for luxury, but they were driven. They had the passion we have to preserve our history, and I'll say at at no matter what cost.

Making Heroes Human For The Next Generation

SPEAKER_01 1:02:19

Yeah, Stephanie, we have a multi-generational uh group of folks here, this panel. I want to ask you now, you've talked a little bit about some of the ways that we can do it, but uh you know, how can younger folks like me, like Brian, uh, you know, work uh right in stride with the older generation that might have uh the experiences, that might have the stories, that might have uh the artifacts physically, the the photographs. What could we do uh you know to continue on um and and help in preserving our own history for our next generation? Right.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:56

No, and the technology is so much better than it was even when they were starting back in the 60s. You know, I think with some of your grandparents, you have to get them comfortable talking first because people are still kind of hesitant, and that was always a struggle in the past. People did not want to talk about their history, but they started, and now we're getting over that hump. So I think with individual families, you have to sense who is this true storyteller, and is that they're a good storyteller or they know their history too, and that's sometimes hard to find because people can tell some stories, but let's face it, you don't want to record a lot of I won't say false information, but not information worth capturing. You know what I'm saying? But when you have when you find that person, I mean it's so much easier now to videotape, you don't have to be there with them. You can store it. I think you convert you can convert things to written documents now a lot easier too. So in that way, it's a lot easier to save family affairs than it was in the past 20 or 30 years. And I know most people can do what I did. I I could I could do an exhibit because of my family background and I knew what to do and how to do it. But if I hadn't had the background, would I have still done something? Yes, I think I would have figured out how to preserve what I had, um, and maybe even do a PowerPoint. Not that hard. Do a PowerPoint and send it to all the family members.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:22

Right.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:22

You've done your you've done your job. If you say this is what I have, this is a story, you got some photos and you put it in there, that's a story, right?

Donna Givens Davidson 1:04:30

You know, I'm family. I can say that my sister, when we were young, videotaped both of my grandmothers. And um, it was amazing. She had a friend who had a video camera, this is before everybody had one on their phone, and she came and she did it, and then when I be on a VHS tape, and then the VHS tape broke. And so, you know, now we actually have the ability to not just capture it, but then put it somewhere where it is preserved. Um, if I could, um I my mom was hospitalized. Um, my sister and I um took our phones and we had her tell stories, you know, and so then I couldn't listen to it. I still haven't listened to the whole thing. I was not able to, you know. Um, but I sent it to my sister so she could she could put it together. And at some point I'll be able to sit through it without, you know. I told you my mama's girl. So um, but yeah, I think that documenting is important. Use tools you have, but the videotaping is really important because you get to see the faces and you get to hear the words, and the stories that you don't know you're gonna miss. You're gonna miss them. There's so many things I want to ask, and there's nobody to ask anymore. So I encourage you, Sam and Brian, to do the asking now, to document it now so that when um you know, and you have something to take, give to your kids.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:56

And ask your friends. I I I still find that. History is an uncomfortable subject for people. And I think the difference is my father wanted everybody, in particular black people, to have a love of history in your DNA. He wanted to be a part of who you are so it comes naturally. And he didn't want you spouting off facts and figures about when Frederick Douglass was born. Nothing like that. He wanted you to have an idea of who Frederick Douglass was, but he wanted you more to gain the richness of the struggle and say, if they can do it, so can I. That's what he has always wanted for people to take away and young people. Because that's your that's that's your reserve. That's your energy packet, you know?

Donna Givens Davidson 1:06:47

Sorry. I'm gonna relate that to Brian. We started with you talking about the um play.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:52

Yes.

Shoutouts, Plugs, And Closing

Donna Givens Davidson 1:06:53

And thinking of MLK as this god, right? He was a man. And he was a man. I always try to tell young people he would he didn't know this stuff was gonna succeed until after it did. Everybody was not behind him, right? He had a whole lot of naysayers. So I think a lot of times it makes it hard for us to see ourselves in heroes because by the time we know them, they're heroes. Yes, we don't ever encounter them when they're not being heroic. And so I think that that that may be another piece of importance for young people to look and say, wait a minute, I sometimes do some of these things myself, and I can still see the difference. I don't have to wait until I get perfect. Right. Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:38

Well, let's take a another quick break, guys, at the top uh side of this. We are gonna come back, close it out. I want to remind you guys, because of the um application that we're streaming on, you don't have to sit by your computer or anything, just don't close out the tab right away until you see um on your screen like successful upload. Our producer has to just upload um the audios uh with our video from here. So if you could just keep at once we end uh your your tab open afterward, it'll usually take like 15 to 20 minutes, but you don't have to be by your computer or anything. I'm pretty sure you can like close it out, but um just don't close the don't close the window. Uh yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:23

Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:26

And then we're gonna do um shout-outs. We do at at the end of our show every week. Just um shout out anyone or anything even uh that you guys feel deserves attention in your lives this week. Okay.

Donna Givens Davidson 1:08:39

I'm gonna shout out the Detroit Pistons.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:42

Well, I did that last week, so you can't steal my thing again.

Donna Givens Davidson 1:08:47

My shout-out was different.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:48

All right, here we go.

Donna Givens Davidson 1:08:53

Our staff team went to see them on Thursday and they lost to the lowly Washington Lizards.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:59

They did the worst team in the league.

Donna Givens Davidson 1:09:01

They managed to lose while we were there, and then win by a much larger march the next day against the Knicks. So um, you know, thank you for letting us know what it's like to see your see you lose. Um, it was it was good.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:17

All right, we're gonna we're gonna come back. We're gonna come back.

Donna Givens Davidson 1:09:21

Well, we did the next day. The next day. Definitely.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:24

We'll be okay. We'll be okay.

Donna Givens Davidson 1:09:26

Well, I know.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:28

All right. Welcome back, everyone. Uh, we want to thank Stephanie Wright Griggs, Brian Taylor Sullivan for joining us today on our episode of Authentically Detroit. If you guys have topics, guests you want discussed on Authentically Detroit, you can hit us up on our socials at Authentically Detroit on Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter, or you can visit our website, authenticly d.com. All right, now uh it is time. Uh each week we shout out, we do shout outs, uh, people in our lives, things in our life that's bringing us joy. Uh, this week, what is bringing me joy? You know what? My cat Paula, I gotta say, she has been using the litter box correctly. There was a scare. We had a Paula scare. I took her to the vet. I said, Why is she pooping on her couch? Why does she do that? Why does she do this? She gave her a little medicine and it's just it's gone away. The girl hasn't pooped on the couch in about a month now. So we're gonna keep cheering for Paula. She's a year old, so it's kind of old to be doing that still. She uses the glitter box regularly, but sometimes she she makes mistakes. I want to say, shout out to you, Paula the Cat, my emotional support cat. Not really, but when I got laid off a couple years ago, I went out and all of a sudden there was a cat outside my house. I said, Come on in. And it just felt like a sign. So I want to say thank you, Paula the Cat, for bringing me joy uh this week. Uh it's cold, so I've been snuggled up and inside all week.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:04

Yeah, go ahead.

Donna Givens Davidson 1:11:05

I'm gonna shout out Ebony Taylor. Um, good job. You are, you know, she's running a good race, she's doing what needs to be done and representing and organizing at the community level. I love to see the new energy of all of our new um young politicians in the city of Detroit. Shout out to Stephanie for joining the ranks.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:25

Um, I'll give a shout out to my wonderful castmate Rebecca Rose Mims, who plays Kameh, and to play the Mountaintop at Detroit Public Theater that everybody should see before March 8th. Get your tickets now.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:39

I want to give a shout out to all the people in the city of Detroit that made six years of the Charles H. Wright Museum possible. I also want to shout out to all the people, and this is such a positive sign of more and more folks coming to the museum for family reunions. I think that is one of the most appropriate things and happy things I've seen. When I visit and walk in, and someone says, Oh, that's a family reunion. And I mean, it doesn't get any better than that. You're gonna get people together at the museum, they have programs, they'll sometimes ask staff to come in and talk or give a tour or not. You don't have to do that. And you know, and we have my final shout out is times are kind of rough now, but do not forget the significance of our history and find a way to keep it going because this too shall pass.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:32

Stephanie, uh, where should folks go if they're trying to learn more about your efforts um and your organization?

SPEAKER_05 1:12:39

There's the Association of African-American Museums does have a website. Um, it's I think it's.org, triple AM.org. And I'm also happy to say, since we're shouting out, I've forgotten about it. I was fortunate enough to already in my current project um recording the history of the association, we have a history of the association, a brief documentary on the website that I helped produce.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:06

Well, all right. Uh, Brian, uh, where can folks find you on on social media?

SPEAKER_00 1:13:13

Uh they can find me at on Instagram at uh Brian Sullivan Taylor or online at DetroitDramastudio.com.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:23

All right. And as always, uh, you can find me, Sam Robinson, on Twitter at Samuel J Rob. Uh, Donna, where can they find you? They can find you at ECN any day of the week, huh? All right, guys, thank you so much for listening to another episode of Authentically Detroit. We will hear from you guys next week. Thank you so much.