Have You Heard? Who’s Joining the Podcast Network with Arlyssa Heard and Kevin Ashwood

In this episode, Donna and Sam introduce the latest segment on Authentically Detroit, What’s Happening at ECN featuring Outreach Manager for the Housing & Economic Department at Eastside Community Network, Kevin Ashwood.

Kevin leads resident engagement, community outreach, and program education efforts centered on housing stability, wealth building, and neighborhood empowerment across Detroit’s Eastside.

They also introduce the latest addition to the Authentically Detroit Podcast Network, 482Forward Education Organizer, Arlyssa Heard. 

Arlyssa is taking 482Forward’s mission and turning it into a podcast! Have You Heard? Is a podcast dedicated to addressing school reform from all angles. Whether it be students, teachers, parents, or administrators - Arlyssa wants to talk to them all and get to the bottom of one question - how can we produce better outcomes for our students?

To stay up to date on all things Authentically Detroit, click here. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Up next, Authentically Detroit welcomes 482 Forward Education Organizer, Arlissa Heard, to discuss how she's working to create a better Detroit for our young people and her upcoming podcast, Have You Heard. But first, our new segment, What's New at ECN, where you guessed it, we highlight the work going on at the East Side Community Network. Keep it locked. Authentically Detroit starts after these messages.

Donna Givens Davidson 0:20

Calling our residents and lovers of the East Side, the Spring Stalemeyer Showcase on April 16th is your invitation to come in, get connected, and discover all that the Stalemeyer Wellness Hub offers for Eastsiders. Experience the space, meet staff and instructors, and learn more about programs designed to support everyday life. Whether you're looking for health and wellness resources, opportunities for your children and family, or ways to stay connected and engaged in the community, join us on April 16th and see why the Stalemeyer is the place to be.

SPEAKER_02 2:02

But I I I need to. Please tell the people the origin of that name and when you know your mom was like, no, it's not. It's Arlisa. Yes, Arlisa.

SPEAKER_03 2:19

The origin, I don't know. No, I do know the origin. My uh my cousin, my father's niece. I just recently found out that she named me. Oh I didn't know that. About two years ago I found that out. How much older is she? She's like maybe about 20 years older than I am.

SPEAKER_02 2:41

Uh-huh. I've I learned in the last five or six years that I was actually named after my mom's sister who passed away when my mom was pregnant. I'm named after a woman. I like to tell people that. Her name was Shelly Joe, and my name is Samuel Joseph.

Donna Givens Davidson 2:55

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 2:56

But um yeah. I get I get a kick out of people's name pronunciations last night at the NAACP Freedom Fund dinner. Camellia Landrum, uh, her name, which also has like a I versus E kind of sound name. Yeah. And people mispronounce it Arlisa. It's Arlisa. It's Ar Lisa. And same with Camellia, it should even say Camilla instead of Camellia. And I was just like, uh, Governor Wimmer was like the only person to get that right.

SPEAKER_03 3:20

Yeah. Well, I get it all the time because the way my name is spelled, it's the why in there that throws people off. I usually I just it's been all my life. I usually let it fly, but um sometimes. No, not not here. No.

Donna Givens Davidson 3:31

No, I mean, because you are in our network. Yes. And we have to get it right because you're a partner. I just want to say how excited I am to have you here. Um you are uh first of all, I still always remember when we met, we had a great conversation, and then you came here and you were such a great guest. And for you to have your own podcast really talking about issues that matter to Detroiters, um, you cannot have too many voices speaking from our community. And so I really, really appreciate you setting up this, accepting the challenge, but apparently you've been planning to do this anyway.

SPEAKER_03 4:02

This is something that uh has been a little bit of a a bit of a dream. It's something that we talked about over at 482. We were trying to figure out how does this work and you know where are we gonna go with it, what do we do. So it's uh it's kind of always been out there, and then I've always had um over pretty much a great portion of my life, I've always been in either invited on a radio show back in the days, right? Radio, right, to do interviews and all of that. So until I got my start.

Donna Givens Davidson 4:30

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:31

Oh well, college radio, yeah 2017.

Donna Givens Davidson 4:34

You know how many times have I been on radio and even sometimes on television shows? You need your own show. And um, and then I don't have one, right? And so Orlando and I were like, ooh, let's just do a podcast. And um, and authentically Detroit was born. And as much as people criticize some podcasts for the negativity, um, creating a space that we own where we can say the things that need to be said on behalf of our community is so important because narrative is important. Now, Kevin, you're having a special day right now. I know you're having a special moment because I don't think anybody mentioned to you that you were being promoted. Um, but um congratulations, sir.

SPEAKER_00 5:11

Yeah, I'm definitely really happy about that. You know, there's some talks, you know, you you keep your eye open, but you know, um, I'm definitely happy to hear that that's you know moving forward. And so um great to know that the impact that I've been trying to make has been, you know, reflected.

SPEAKER_02 5:28

Yeah, let's let's talk about it. Let's uh move into our new segment, what's happening at ECN, where we highlight some of the work going on here uh inside the Stademeyer at the Eastside Community Network, Kevin Ashwood. You serve as the outreach manager for housing and economic opportunity department. Uh, you lead resident engagement, community outreach, program education. Uh, here uh the efforts centered on housing and stability, wealth building, neighborhood empowerment across Detroit's east side. In his role, Kevin works directly with residents, block clubs, and community partners to connect Detroiters to critical housing resources, including tax relief support, home repair programs, affordable housing opportunities, and financial readiness services. He is also heavily involved in ECN's continued partnership with the Coalition for Property Tax Justice, as well as the Hope Property Tax Exemption Program. Recently, Kevin became the first ECN team member to pass the examination to become a HUD housing counselor. Kevin is deeply passionate about creating pathways for both Detroit residents, not only to remain housed, but to thrive, build wealth, and feel empowered in their community. Kevin.

Donna Givens Davidson 6:42

Yeah. Can I just say a couple words before you told Kevin? It is always a joy to have people work who are passionate about what they do. Because, you know, the passion in an organization cannot reside with a few people. When you have a bunch of passionate people who are trying to do good things, and since Kevin has been here, he's just all over everything. So, you know, it's it is recognized, it's appreciated. And I want to acknowledge that this was your idea to create this segment. It was not somebody asking you, can you create this segment? That kind of initiative is appreciated. Um, so thank you for your continued contributions um to our organization, our community.

SPEAKER_00 7:19

I appreciate it. Um, yeah, this is really a surreal feeling just being on the podcast. I know Donna, I've kind of brought it up before, but um authentically Detroit is what brought me to um ECN. That's also um and just the chance to really um interact with the community in a meaningful way. Um I want to be a part of an organization that that you know prioritizes that. So um definitely happy uh to be a part of the team.

SPEAKER_05 7:47

Love it.

SPEAKER_02 7:48

Let's talk about uh some of the work that you do here. I really am interested in in what it means um talking about uh the the HUD housing counselor. When I was buying a house, you know, that topic was was brought up. Kevin, you're 28 or 29? Yep, 29. 29. So I'm about to turn 29 uh just this year. And so I could imagine um you know, we were probably at similar places of like wanting to put our feet down and put roots down and help a community. Uh you know, I've known uh your work through just coming in here and and seeing you and hearing about what's going on at ECN through Donna and Sarah. Um tell the people that that uh are interested because I think you're not alone in the fact that authentically Detroit sort of serves as a um you know touch point for people that didn't already know about ECN to come in and check it out. Um talk about your your first time in the building and um when it became apparent to you that you could have a role here and really uh work to benefit some of the same goals that ECN has already uh you know has has been working on.

SPEAKER_00 8:56

Yeah, honestly, I would say from the the moment that I did come in, um when I did my interview, uh I sat in the space and I'm really big on energy, um, really big on like the vibe. And so um sitting in and seeing people come in and interact with the front desk, and um I took a walk around and saw the paintings on the wall, and just what what do we um prioritize as like a space? And so um from the moment I was in, I was bought in. And so um I think that the more that I really got the chance to um sit in with community members um in like neighborhood association meetings and um working with the coalition for property tax justice, um, I really got to see myself as uh being someone that can reflect the needs of the community that I'm trying to serve. And so I never really saw another opportunity to be more effective with that than at ECN. Um and so that's really it was really a shining light.

Donna Givens Davidson 9:58

Can you can you talk about what you where you came from before you were here?

SPEAKER_00 10:01

Yeah, before I was here, I was um I went to Michigan, uh, University of Michigan, I started my career over at um Rocky. Um so I worked um with Go Blue. You were that was my auntie in Michigan, you were like, so for here Samuel. Well go Broncos, go western Michigan. Oh my god. You know what my sister is uh a Western Michigan, so you know I can't say say anything too bad, but uh absolutely um I think that just um beforehand I was working with um in downtown with uh Rocket as a real estate advisor. Um and so there was some time of being an actual listing agent and then just connecting people with um real estate agents and kind of walking them through that housing process and that like home buying process. Um and that's really where I think the understanding of there's just not enough source like resources to actually allow people to become homeowners, um, and that I wanted to feel like my my job was contributing to creating more pathways for people. So um I was definitely happy when the opportunity came to make that switch. Um and it was really just serendipitous how it happened of hey, I want to get more information. I actually reached out to Donna about being um more like a uh mentor. I was like, you know, I'm looking for some mentorship, I want to get into community development, and then I saw, hey, there's a position actually open that's exactly in what I want to do. Um so I think everything happens for a reason and timing couldn't align better.

SPEAKER_02 11:42

Buying a house is something that I just did, and it was not easy, but it wasn't like the most difficult thing that I've ever done. And so when you when you're just uh talking about the lack of resources and stuff, my biggest resource was literally YouTube. Um you know, that they make you do a Fannie Mae homebuyers class. Like I think pretty much every bank, if you do a loan program through they'll make you take like a you know housing education class that'll kind of like go over all the things that you'll learn in YouTube university already. But um Yeah, I I I'd be interested to hear, you know, why that is something that you took an interest in. Um I wanted to get a house because I felt like I've been giving my money to developers that don't live anywhere near here. And why would I do that when I could just instead give my money to a bank, which somehow benefits me? How does it benefit me? Owning versus renting, why should people own homes?

SPEAKER_00 12:36

Um, well, there's a lot that goes into, and I think that definitely if it depends on where you're at. Um, some people own homes because it's an investment, right? And that you see it as this opportunity to um you know have more wealth, more equity, you can resell your house. Um the Detroit housing market is a little different in that way, though. That when you talk about why to own a home, it's really about creating roots. It's about you know having a place for your family, um, some place that kind of cements you into the city. Um, and so I I do think that homeownership is something that people should pursue if it makes sense to them. Um, if where they are is where they're trying to plant those kind of roots. Um and they should know what their options are, um, whether or not renting makes more sense for them and how to buy a home in a way that will not leave them financially constrained. Um and I think a lot of people don't really know what the resources they have available are. Um that's one thing we really want to highlight, especially with the Housing Resource Fair that's coming up this Saturday, um, is bringing in people to uh kind of get more information, see what are the the tools that are available to them to make homeownership possible. Um, but outside of that, you know, recognizing that there are other avenues as well that, you know, renting or even more experimental views like shared housing or things like that are possible.

Donna Givens Davidson 14:15

You know, I I want to point out something because you you made that point. I want to just stick with it for a second. In Detroit, um, people talk about owning homes right now. You know, we have this black capitalism thing and always like, you know, generational wealth.

SPEAKER_02 14:27

Very few people buy black back your block.

Donna Givens Davidson 14:29

Yes, very few people get wealthy in Detroit owning homes. Let's just be honest, right? In order to get wealthy owning your home, your home has to appreciate value every single year at faster than the rate of housing inflation, right? If it's not gaining value, it's losing value. But we want to own homes anyway, not for generational wealth, but generational well-being. And that's what you're speaking to, is the well-being aspect. I don't think everything we do should be about wealth. So much of what we're doing is about place. It is about connection. And the people who lost their homes did indeed lose wealth, but they also lost community. And um, so what you're doing, what what Sam just did was invest it in a community. Yeah, in a place.

SPEAKER_02 15:14

In a place. And that that's so true. I mean, people at talking about, oh, you know, you can go get a job in DC now and rent out your house. Like, yeah, I guess I could, but like, that's not the motivation for buying it. Like, I just bought this house, I want to live in it now, you know? And so I I I I do see um when you talk about roots, right? Like, I don't have family that lives in the city of Detroit. My family is in uh Midland and Virginia. And so, you know, unless I want to go somewhere else and then have to come back to this sort of really rigid and callous and really unfriendly renting market that exists in Detroit, I think we should really get serious and and real about how bad conditions are for renters and how I don't want to say good, but it's just out of balance. Developers and landlords are so getting the better end of these deals when you talk about what's happening around the sort of four and a half square mile radius of the downtown. Right. And it's just it's it's amazing that when we think of new people coming into Detroit, they're renting first. They're they're not coming in as home buyers. The ones that are are the you know, sort of upper middle class to wealthy white people that will move into Indian Village or somewhere where the you know that this Great Water homes on the east side.

Donna Givens Davidson 16:28

But you know, I I want to say this because having co-chaired the housing, development, and planning um transition team committee, I can tell you that a lot of landlords, especially black landlords, are struggling. Yes. And so we have like two Detroits still those downtown developers who get all of the subsidies, who get all the love, and then you have the neighborhood developers who have one or two homes and are just trying to hold on by the seat of their pants. And a lot of times we cast them as the problem, but I look at the ecosystem of housing has to be reinvested in and supported so that small landlords can do their job. There's amazing people like Bina Elliott with the opportunity fund who is looking at helping support small landlords so that they can be good landlords. And to, you know, in all transparency, um I'm a small landlord now, right? My husband got some property, and all of a sudden we have to figure out how to fix it up, and it was very badly damaged by the people who were there before. It's thousands of dollars of investment before you can get anything out of it, and we're not going to earn anything back for at least a year. So when you look at it, I think we have to understand, and I think there's uh Detroit Future City just did a report on small landlords, and they found that most landlords in Detroit are small landlords. And um and then you have the predators. And the biggest predators are not always landlords. They're people who are selling you a home by way of land contract and a predatory deal that makes you accountable for a home that's falling apart, and you lose the home if you miss one or two payments. Or even worse, people who are in lease-to-own deals where there's no law, not contract law, not landlord tenant law. And the reason people who own properties, predators, enter into these spaces is because they are not regulated. So we could do a whole conversation, and hopefully that's going to be one of the things that's talked about at the um housing fair that's coming up on Saturday. Educating people about their housing options so that they don't fall into this trap of thinking the problem is rentals.

SPEAKER_00 18:31

Because for a lot of people, it may really be the the best option to um create more financial security for yourself and to put yourself in a position to one day own a home if that's something that you you um desire.

Donna Givens Davidson 18:46

Yeah. So what else is going on at ECN?

SPEAKER_00 18:50

Um Yeah, so um to start, definitely that housing fair that we have coming up this Saturday um is gonna be at 14711 Mac. Um, and it's gonna be from 11 to 3 p.m. And we'll have vendors there from you know, local officials, um, councilwoman, Letitia Johnson's office, um, as well as um a bunch of community partners as well. And so we're really just trying to provide something for every resident, um, the person who owns their house and is looking for um some renovation projects or to or some much needed more critical repairs um for their home. We're looking for the person that's looking for new housing opportunities and um are trying to get more information on how to do more home readiness and uh home buying readiness and stuff like that. Um and so we're having vendors that's catered towards all of those topics, um, as well as food, raffles, you know, and really just uh a moment to come together as a community. Um additionally, I know we will be having um the containing black utopia. Um it's gonna be like a book talk at the Charles H. Wright Museum that's gonna be on the 6th of May from 6 to 7:30. Um, and so definitely we want to encourage people to come out and really have uh and engage with this conversation about um, you know, different black utopian civilizations or not civilizations. Communities um over the years and and you know, different ways that um that has looked over time.

Donna Givens Davidson 20:34

You know, I want to say a word about that. You know, sometimes you're watching the news and you just want to escape everybody, right? Like, I need to go to Utopia because these folks hate us, right? And you're watching it. And there were actually people who freed themselves or who were freed from slavery, who formed their own communities. They didn't all come to Detroit, they didn't all come north and do the great migration. Some of them found some land and built communities where they set the rules, and they called their communities a lot of times freedom and or utopia, and there was this vision that they had. Um, so I was just reading a book. I'm trying to remember the name of this town, uh, but this in this instance they had kings and queens. And sometimes they established royalty to try to recreate a presence that was taken from them. Aaron Robertson is the author of that book, and he is amazing. The other book is by Michelle Adams. She wrote a book called The Containment, and it's all about the school desegregation efforts in Detroit in the 1970s. As somebody who grew up in Detroit in the 1970s and was going to school and the teachers were on strike and everything was going on, I didn't know why we didn't go to school until October. I didn't know what was happening, but there was a lot happening behind the scenes. There was a lot of racial violence as black students were integrating school schools like Cody and Osborne, um, where there were actually fights, and there was actually court mandated interdistrict school busing where Detroit students were supposed to be. Able to go to school in all of the suburbs. It was stopped by the Supreme Court and it's the case. Very few people we know about Brown, but we don't know about Millican. Um this decision came down, and the the impact of that decision, obviously. Well, they'd made the decision. They said, well, Detroit's school segregation or housing segregation was not intentional. How anybody could look at facts and come up with that, you know, but this is when there was a pushback against it. So come and listen to these brilliant authors who are both from Detroit, black folks from Detroit, who have taken their time to document meticulously our history. And one more thing about the Black Utopians, it really covers a lot of information about the Shrine of the Black Madonna. So if you are ever curious about how it was formed, who did it and why, and how it operated, it's a great book to read.

SPEAKER_00 22:51

Absolutely. Um, and so we want to support, you know, um those authors and you know, highlight that as well. So please do come out to that event. Additionally, um on May 19th, um, from 5 to 7, we are going to be having our estate planning workshop um here at ECN. And so that's really just giving residents the opportunity to learn more about um putting uh a will together. What is the benefit of having a Lady Bird D and really what that means, and without you know, spoiling too much ahead, but it's very necessary for people who want to transfer ownership um to a family member or a loved one and keep their house um in the family in a way that you know isn't going to um keep them stuck in a probate court for forever. And so I think a lot of people kind of skip ahead through that part. And um, we see that in Detroit there's a big problem with like heirs properties or properties where um essentially people's name isn't on the deed because they inherited the home unofficially, never went through probate court. Um and so we do want to protect as many family homes, those family legacies. Um, like we said, that's really where families find their place in Detroit a lot of times. And so um this workshop is gonna be really equipping people with those tools to make sure that they're holding on to their homes for as long as possible.

Donna Givens Davidson 24:22

And that's also one of your roles. One more shameless plug. On May 11th, I'm going to be releasing my book, Divining Freedom, at the hottest new place in town, I think, the Howard Family Bookstore.

SPEAKER_04 24:34

Yeah.

Donna Givens Davidson 24:34

Um, I'm really excited about it. It is something I've been working on for four years. I started when I lost my mom and I finally finished it, I think, even though I'm still doing a little bit of copy editing still. There's all there's 118,000 words, and there's so much room for error with 118,000 words, you'd be surprised. But it really is my heart. And so I hope those of you who are interested, come out and check it out and also visit the Howard Family Bookstore, opened by our friend Jeron Howard, who is now the director of youth affairs for the city of Detroit, um, but also um has invested in our community on the west side. I'm gonna be on the west side, folks.

unknown 25:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 25:11

From the far east to the far west. That's what me and my friends say after I bought my house. Um, Kevin, I before we leave, um before I I walked in here, I was reading about you on Outlier, um uh where you can read about some of these housing issues also with the landlords not having the resources to repair their homes in order to get up to code and whatnot. However, I was reading about you and I overheard you talking about your wife. You're wearing a wedding band and you're also 20, you're under 30. So for people like me that are that do not have a wife, but perhaps are seeking that out, talk about your family, man. Talk about how long that that that has has been a part of your life. I think uh we don't talk about this uh on our show a lot, but I'm really interested in the young people that have that down, that part of life down.

SPEAKER_00 26:00

Oh, yeah, absolutely. I'm always looking for an opportunity to talk about my wife. Yeah. Um we met in high school a while, and so you know, we started dating my senior year in high school, um, dated through college, and then um we got married when we were 25. Um, so yeah, she's my best friend. She's also a um brilliant social worker, therapist, um, and a children's book author. Um so she's written two books, um, really trying to teach kids about uh how to navigate, you know, social emotional emotional learning. Um the first is Amethyst has a worry, um, and the second being Ruby Loses Focus. Um kind of talking about ADHD and tools that you know kids can use. So bring her on the show. Yeah, I was just gonna say, bring her on.

Donna Givens Davidson 26:50

What high school, what college?

SPEAKER_00 26:52

Um, so we went we both went to Renaissance Um High School, and then uh for college, she went to Michigan State. I went to U of M.

Donna Givens Davidson 27:01

So divided family.

SPEAKER_00 27:02

Yeah, house divided, big flag in the living room. Um, and so we we go back and forth on who's the the true victor. But to be honest, she um did kind of cheat because she went for to grad school at Michigan. So she can count both. There you go.

Donna Givens Davidson 27:20

Well, thanks for asking about that. I appreciate that. Yeah, and then um, just one more thing about your family. One child who's won. That's what I was gonna say next. And what's the new exciting news?

SPEAKER_00 27:29

Yeah, so I've got a one-year-old son and a little girl on the way. Oh my god, that's awesome! Congratulations. Thank you. I appreciate it. Super exciting. And then two and done. We're um we're we're finished. That's good.

SPEAKER_02 27:42

Yeah, get it all you need to do on that. Kevin, thanks for sharing uh that personal side of you. Um that's really awesome, man. People under 30, men under 30.

Donna Givens Davidson 27:52

We you can have a family, and it's so important because all of the negative stories about men. Yes, yeah. And yet, you know, we can't have a world without them.

SPEAKER_02 28:02

There was another negative story over the weekend, you guys saw that.

Donna Givens Davidson 28:05

Well, there's always one, right? Yes, there's always there's always one or several. Um, yeah, I mean, it it it happens daily, it's usually the other way around. But the reality is that we have got to also lift up those men who are the good guys because a lot of times, um, you know, like my husband Kevin is a great one, you are a great one. You know, a lot of times guys who are good, men who are good, especially black men who are good, are treated as if they are anomalies. And I think that there are lots of good black men, and Sam is one. Um Sam is looking at me. I know, I try to do it. What about me, okay? I try to be every day. Well, Sam is a good man, I can tell you that, right? And um, and and I like to celebrate you guys um because as much as I am sometimes considered a feminist, I consider myself a womanist. And as a womanist, I love my community and I just want us all to be treated as equal. So thank you for showing up, for being a good husband, a good father, and also another wonderful employee.

SPEAKER_00 29:03

I really appreciate it. Uh absolutely. And you know, I think that that's really um what it's all about is that it's not the anomaly, it's not the the one-off. Um, and how do you find the community of men who really do care about you know their um their home and the protection of um black families? And so um it means a lot.

SPEAKER_02 29:29

I love it. All right, well, thank you so much, Kevin. Uh, we want to again welcome you back on, welcome your wife on, and uh congratulate you today for your uh just recently announced promotion that Donna announced prior to us um going live on on air here. So thank you so much, Kevin, for joining us. All right. When we come back, we are going to talk to Arlisa Heard. She is the director of 4824 Word. Keep it locked, Authentically Detroit will be right back. The Authentically Detroit Network is proud to announce the Amplify Outside Podcast, hosted by Ian John Solomon. The Amplify Outside Podcast is greening Detroit's narrative. Amplify Outside presents an undertold story of black environmentalism, from recreation to liberation. Detroit's not new to this, it's true to this. Follow along as Ian and guests explore Detroit's unique axis of blackness and climate resilience. Together, they're painting the city green through connecting, uplifting, and reimagining environmental realities. To learn more and subscribe, visit authenticallydetroit.com slash amplify outside. Welcome back, everyone. 4824 is creating a Detroit where every student graduates ready to become a fully engaged participant in the world, equipped with the character and the capacity to negotiate her environment and change it for the better. At 4824, they take a different approach to organizing. Education organizing refers to the actions of parents and other residents of marginalized communities to transform low-performing schools towards higher performance through an intentional building of power. This is different from other approaches to school improvement because they believe those who are most affected by the problem should help create the solution. In other words, families and students have to be in the driver's seat if we want kids to succeed. Education organizing focuses on system change and school accountability. Now, our Lisa Heard is taking 482 Forward's mission and turning it into a podcast. Have you heard? Is a podcast dedicated to addressing school reform from all angles. Whether it be students, teachers, parents, or administrators, our Lisa wants to talk to them all to get to the bottom of one question. How can we produce better outcomes for our students? Our Lisa Heard is with us now. Arlisa, at our break, we were talking about that you went to Northwood University. What an interesting background in Midland, Michigan. Midland, Michigan. Where authentically Detroit listeners probably know by now, but if you didn't, I spent more than a decade in Midland after moving from Baltimore, Maryland. My mom was a nurse at Johns Hopkins Hospital. She's from Midland, Meridian, Sanford. Um, and so I went to Midland High School. I went to uh Central Middle School on Rod Street and Carpenter Elementary School on Carpenter Street, I believe. And Carpenter Street was the school closest of the schools that I went to to Northwood University. I spent my summers in the old gym, it's been renovated, but the old Northwood University basketball gym where they would play men's and women's basketball games. I did a um Detroit Pistons summer camp every year.

SPEAKER_03 32:50

Are you kidding?

SPEAKER_02 32:51

Yes, with a man named Coach Steve, who I think now a Pistons employee tells me he goes by Coach Joe because that was just his like stage name.

SPEAKER_03 32:59

I think the gymnasium used to be the Bennett, Bennett something. The Bennett Center, yeah. The Bennett Center. Yep. Exactly that. Yeah. And then uh What years was this? Oh God, I'm not gonna tell that. Oh, okay. Oh my god, but I well, don't because it's the the university. Oh yeah, it wasn't even a university whenever. Okay, it was just a college. It was Northwood Institute. And so it was a private college. And it was a business college? It's a business college and then uh automotive aftermarket and all of that. So there's a Did you know that the school is built like a dollar sign? Did you know that? No. I did not know I did not know. That's why it's so confusing to like drive around there.

SPEAKER_02 33:35

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 33:38

Honest to God, I did not know this until the day I graduated. You want to know why? Because there was an aerial view on the front of the, you know, what is that, the program that they give you? Yeah. And this is, you know, we there's this long walk that's from the from the village uh, you know, on campus apartments all the way to the uh to the on, you know, like at the dorms or whatever, that's the strip. And the crooks road is an S. Crooks Road. Crooks Road. You're 3225 Cooks Road. Oh my god. And it's an S. And the strip is the is the sign. It's the dollar sign. It is. Now, if that was not something, it is a dollar sign.

SPEAKER_02 34:19

So capitalism, right-wing politics, Midland, I mean corporate demagoguery.

SPEAKER_03 34:24

We were in the heart of it. We were in We were in the heart of it. We we they drilled in us that you know, no it was free markets. Free markets, yes, free enterprise, no welfare, although they accepted uh financial welfare. Corporate welfare. I mean uh they like it for themselves. It was a really big thing. I mean, that oh wow. There are so many things that I So there's this a trauma.

SPEAKER_02 34:45

I talk about it in the in my experience from elementary school, middle school, high school. Uh, you know, I knew I would not be friends with like any of those people that I went to high school with. And you know, just true today. I talked to maybe two or three people that I knew from Midland, but um, it was something that I'm grateful for. I wouldn't have taken back, I wouldn't go back and do over. Like I'm grateful to have had that experience. It was traumatizing, it was racist, frankly. I mean, I mean really I there's countless times where I'd be walking down the street and people would yell the n-word at me, like on their trucks.

SPEAKER_03 35:17

Oh, that happened that happened, that happened a lot of times. And that and you're and of course, I'm like 20 years older than you, right? You're in the 80s, I was in the 2000s. That's what I'm saying. And so you can just about imagine what was going on. I had my you know, my ex-boyfriend back in the house, but he was chased. I mean, they chased him. It was it was crazy. But you know, I used to have an econ professor. This is just to put you in the mind of what's gonna. He was the cheapest thing, collected all these newspapers, always collected popcans. In fact, like the you take the first class, you know, the freshman class comes in, he takes off his belt, and he shows you that it's double-sided. This is how he saves money, so it goes from black to brown. And he was talking, every telling everybody how you save money and you build wealth, and he would show us the bottom of his shoes. He's had them resold a couple times, and so that's the reason why. We used to be like, how much money does this guy? He had a pair of the same, you know, the brown slacks and the black slacks. I mean, it was just crazy stuff. But fun fact one day I walked into my econ class and we had a guest um person that was going to teach us, I guess, that day. And it was John Ingler. Oh, wow. Interesting. And his car was parked because you could pull up in front of that, you know, that was circular drive on one of those, I think it was the Griswold, what they called it. His car was parked right there because you know, he ran on this whole thing of he was gonna save Michigan money and he didn't need fancy drivers and all that. Boy, oh boy, I learned a lot that day.

Donna Givens Davidson 36:54

But what did you learn from him?

SPEAKER_03 36:56

Nothing. Um, uh well, actually, I really felt like, wow, this is the school. I don't know if my parents really knew what, you know, what type of school we were in. You know, we it was only a uh it was a portion, you know, a small segment of black folks, but all the black people stuck together. So we all knew each other.

SPEAKER_02 37:14

Even when I was sort of interfacing with Northwood University at a young age, most of the black students were athletes at that time in the early 2000s, 2010s. Yeah. And so were those student athletes even aware of the sort of political dynamics? I don't think so. And I don't think a lot of the students even.

Donna Givens Davidson 37:37

Yeah. And their coaches begin to indoctrinate them with their political beliefs. And, you know, going along with the coach, you know, the the interesting about thing about coaching is coaches' obedience or following the leader is really encouraged, and that's the reason why you have so many athletes, I think, who are confused about their identities and whatever, because of the influence of coaches. And sometimes um, you know, coaches take them in when they're in high school and begin molding them. And so And they're shaped.

SPEAKER_02 38:05

And I I saw that when I was working for Western Michigan football. I I was an employee of Western Michigan Athletics, and I mean, just it was a white supremacist that had all lives matter on one of the like, you know, characteristics of how we want to be. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:21

You know, and I'm just like, oh my God. And it's that that's one of those are some of the things that we're talking about. You know, it's a liberal place. Calum Zoo's liberal. Absolutely. And that and then those are some of the things that we hear about now, about even when we're talking about the NFL and football, you know, what are we, what is it, you know, and then all these white owners, and then people have even likened it to almost like plantation style uh sports. But the thing is, is uh a lot of these guys and a lot of these, and and I say guys because unfortunately the women don't get as much money, but a lot of these folks they get million-dollar contracts and uh their names are known. And so you get kind of get caught up in that, and I think it kind of put aside what the political implications is to not just uh you know, not just politics, but even to our communities. Yeah. Because we even hear people even talk about, especially when we're talking about black athletes, like why does the shade of the person that they love when we're talking talking about marriage earlier, the shade of the person tends to go lighter or changes altogether? And there's this there's this conversation about what happens to black athletes when they become, you know, all this money and they get into this world, this whole new thing, and you get to have what you want pretty much.

Donna Givens Davidson 39:30

But but you also have people controlling their money. Absolutely and so they don't necessarily have controlling, they don't have good financial advisors. LeBron James actually was very smart in that he hired his people, his people, and they they they they didn't and sent one of his people to to business school, and that's the guy over his his kingdom.

SPEAKER_02 39:47

Yeah, Northwood University. You know who else came out of Northwood University? It was the son of LeBron's high school basketball coach. I forget his name, but he is an actual coach at the university today. Really? Yes, I'm completely forgetting his name. LeBron has shouted him out on social media several times. I think his first name is Cam Cameron.

Donna Givens Davidson 40:04

Because, you know, LeBron was raised by a single mother. Oh, yeah, yeah. And she was a teenager, I believe. And so he had this coach taking him in. I think it's important for us to understand that. I think also um, you know, when the athletes go to school, I my my son ran track and he ran at a very high level, right? So a lot of his friends actually are people on his track team. His coach was Stan Edwards. Um Stan Edwards' son was Braylon Edwards. And if you know anything about Michigan football, you know Braylon Edwards was um selected number two in his draft. He was an amazing athlete, and so we were surrounded by these athletes. Um and then he went to um run with Detroit Pell for a while and then went back to Maximum Output. But the point I'm making is I knew some kids, knew them as little kids, and they were good little kids. And they went to college and they got caught up in, you know, sex crimes and they got kicked off the team. One of the kids who went to MSU, it broke my heart because I remember when he was a little boy, and I think that the way that they get indoctrinated or shaped outside of what their parents do. And we're talking about kids whose parents showed up for every single practice and were always giving and loving people, married and taking good care, and the son goes off to college. And so there's something about the athletic culture in a lot of these schools I think we really should examine.

SPEAKER_03 41:22

Even though I was I was there in the late 80s, and we I cannot tell you the number of guys that we watched lose their scholarships because of these sex crimes. What happens? It's one party, it's too many drinks, somebody says yes or somebody says no, and before you know it, we have a whole entire thing where they just it were literally like five, six guys from the football team just bounce.

Donna Givens Davidson 41:47

But it's also it's also the culture that permits the using that that encourages the exploitation of women. And in very specifically, a lot of instances encourages the exploitation of white women who are presented as the prize, right? And so you have people who are coming a lot of times um into these college situations, and some of them have been playing all the time, and they're sheltered. And they get into these situations. I'm not trying to minimize their culpability, but I believe that you have cultures that help to deform how people become what they become. Um speaking of school culture, speaking of school culture, right? Um, you are a person who is trying to improve education for our kids and in in what many ways to make them resistant to the kinds of things that happen in college, but also prepare them for a future. Can you talk about your work?

SPEAKER_03 42:45

Um, where do I begin? So um, well, let me just start with this. I uh first of all, um I really got involved in 482 because I was a parent that had a kid in the school system and I just didn't really understand what was going on. I stood up one day, um, I went to my son, my oldest son, uh started at Malcolm X Academy. And they had these parent meetings on Saturdays, which blew my mind because I'm like, who comes to a parent meeting on Saturday? You gotta be kidding. The place was packed. I stood up and asked a question. And I said, Well, you all are voting on, this is my first time in a public school system. My son's only five, we're just starting. And you all are voting on uh who the uh, you know, the president and vice president and all this. I don't know how to vote on these people. I've never seen them. I don't know who they are. I can't. And they said, tell you what, thank you for asking the question. So we nominate you as the uh as the assistant secretary for the I'm like, wait a minute, I didn't ask. And so that put me in and I learned a lot. And um over the years I be I just grew a little bit more upset because I couldn't quite feel What was wrong with the there was always it was something was just off. My son was getting good grades, but it just seemed like they just weren't authentic. You know what I mean? It was like something was missing. And then things were happening. You know, teachers, there, as we went on, that you know, the book supplies and classroom size was kind of like this model that was echoed during that time. And then there were issues with the building, and then with things like the um sometimes scoring and then funding, and then superintendent, and we were looking at state takeovers, and then it kind of led me in this direction, and um fast forward to today, just really discovering that this is not the principal's fault. It's not necessarily the school's fault or the superintendent, this is systemic. And so for us, um the work that we do at 482 is looking at those root causes that have built out into these larger systems that have, quite frankly, this is why we have a lot of what we have in helping um not just parents, but parents and youth and community partners understand how do we get at the root causes of the system. It's not just about funding, it's also about culture. It's also about uh these things that are happening in the community. When you were talking, we were talking earlier segment about housing. I'm like, it is so housing is such a big deal for families because everything that's happening in our communities, everything that's happening in the culture shows up in the classroom. You don't get away from that. If we have no place to live, families are homeless, that comes to class every day. If the lights are the gas and the water is off, that comes to class every day. Fighting in the hood, all of the internet beef, all of that, that comes to class. We've seen that play out at one of our schools over in Brightmore, over in at Gompers Elementary, where we see a student that ended up, you know, stabbed as a result of this, you know, this tug of war and fighting and you know, bullying one another, whatever the situation. At Denby High School. Yeah, and then and then there's and then there's and then there's more. We just see all of these things happening. And so what is at the root cause of a lot of that? Um, and so, you know, that's it, it takes a lot of work. We've done a lot of good things in the city. Um, and it even though we are, you know, 482 stands for all the uh first three numbers of the zip codes in Detroit, we are uh especially focused on Detroit, and Detroit is the core. However, the reach of our work definitely crosses over into the state uh state policy, state work, because obviously funding and all of that comes from the state uh to help our schools here in Detroit. So we are just really focused on uh having schools be more accountable, but also empowering parents and base and youth to be able to speak for the things that they need and have and come from an informed, educated place of advocating for what it is that you need. Because there's some there's some rules to the can I can I cuss?

SPEAKER_04 47:19

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 47:20

There's some rules to the stuff, okay? There's some stuff that's happening that people need to be aware of.

unknown 47:25

I say, can I cuss?

SPEAKER_03 47:29

I have to, yeah, I don't see. I was about, I felt it slipping out. I'm getting better. I felt it was about to slip, but there's a bunch of crap um that I think that people we need to be aware of and understand that sometimes the angle sometimes we're we're frustrated as parents, we're frustrated, teachers are frustrated, and sometimes it's easy to kind of go right for one person, the school leadership, or right for the superintendent, or directly for the board. And they all should be held accountable. But sometimes it's deeper than that, and there are layers. And there are also when we were talking about how uh uh uh talking about policies in in court cases, you know, when you talked about Millikan versus Bradley, there are things that have been set in place that has led and fed into some of the things that we're seeing, and all these things are coming out in the watch. So yeah.

Donna Givens Davidson 48:19

What do you mean? Give examples.

SPEAKER_03 48:21

Well, for example, um in the Millikan versus Bradley case specifically, you know, we're talking about desegregation. Uh one of the things, I let me just start with this too. My father, who was like 97 years old when he died, um, one thing he used to always say was he thought that uh desegregation in a lot of ways hurt us. And I never understood that. I didn't really get it. I said, what are you what are you talking about? This is this is good, you know, we need to be together and all these things. But as as I well, I I I think I kind of understand what he meant. Because now, how many how many suburban children or how many white children do we see coming into black schools necessarily? Right. It seems like if you can't break something, you starve it. And so if in the in what was this, the making desegregation. No, no, no. No. Um what I'm this is why he's saying that he really believed that desegregation hurt us in a lot of ways. Um, I thought that maybe, you know, I'm thinking like, you know, can we all just get along? That kind of a mindset. You know, can we all just get along? But when you have, it it seems that we see in the in the how policies are set up, when we have predominantly uh black folks in a particular area, just look and see what you what happens in those communities. A lot of the resources, a lot of the investment goes with it. Why is that? Because is that just strictly because people we we people left? Who left? When white folks left and when they moved out, they took resources and all of those things followed. Policies were crafted to make sure that wherever they landed, this is exactly what we're going to feed and this is what we're going to support. And we see that what happens is a lot of our communities are left behind. One of the things that I always say is where I live, I live in the whole village area. I'm over by like Oakman with Davidson, Lynnwood, Pinkle. You don't see the benefit of education there.

Donna Givens Davidson 50:20

No, but that's the issue. Because it's still we're still we're more segregated now than we were then. Desegregation gets a bad name, right? But segregation to me is the problem. The ability of people to take their wealth out of your school system and leave your children um vulnerable to whatever kind of things people want to put in place creates that. We need to do better in suburban schools, making sure that there's desegregation within those schools, because you have segregation within a lot of suburban schools. But the reality is that the problem with segregation has always been we don't want to share our resources with you. And therefore, we're going to create rules and laws and policies that stop you from having them. And right now, our schools are the most are so hyper-segregated. And when they're hyper-segregated, that means our children have the most needs combined with the least resources because we have more poverty in our communities. We have more children with special needs in our communities because of intergenerational injustice. I was just at an in at a meeting where um Brian Stevenson actually um Orlando Bailey threw um, what is it, the um um his his own. Urban counselor, thank you. The urban counselor brought Brian Stevenson to town. And Brian Stevens Brian Stevenson grew up in Delaware, in a place in Delaware where he is the first person in his family to go to high school because there were no high schools where he lived. So his when they brought busing in, that's how he was able to go to high school. Then he went to Harvard, then he went to Harvard, then he went to Harvard, and he is now one of the preeminent civil rights activists in the the nation right now. He has freed hundreds of people from capital punishment, from death, um, you know, death sentences, from wrongful convictions. He's done so much. And then he started the and I always forget the name of this museum in Alabama, Birmingham, Alabama. I called it the Lynching Museum, but there's another name. You know what I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_02 52:22

I do.

Donna Givens Davidson 52:23

This brilliant man comes from brilliant stock.

SPEAKER_02 52:26

It's the National Memorial for Peace and Justice. Yeah, thank you. It's called the Legacy Museum. Yes, the National Memorial for Peace and Peace and Justice, that's it.

Donna Givens Davidson 52:33

Thank you. I'm gonna have to remember it because I call it the Lynching Museum, and that's the opposite, right? But this brilliant man would not be where he is if we still had legal segregation of schools in the United States. In Detroit, Detroit schools were never segregated in the 20th century. In Detroit, schools were, you know, then you had like neighborhood segregation. And so what they did was they put it us all in one neighborhood and they put school boundaries. The school boundaries were designed to keep us in mostly black schools while white kids got to go to other schools. And the reason there was um there was violence is because in the city of Detroit, busing was ordered in the 1970s to say Osborne can no longer be an all-white school, Cody can no longer be an all-white school. So even though you didn't have intra-di interdistrict busing, you had intradistrict busing. But I think it's important that we look at the data about what happened to kids in places where there was strict school segregation. In Fayetteville, in the um no, the Charlotte, that area, the number of kids who went to college skyrocketed. The number of kids who graduated from high school skyrocketed. I am and will always be a fan of saying our kids have the right to go wherever they can afford to go. And unfortunately, the the people, the why do we have the school districts that we have right now, you know? Because people moved to these suburbs because they didn't want their kids, they didn't want to live with us. They didn't want our kids to have those resources.

SPEAKER_03 54:03

They didn't want to live with us, and then there were also, as we began to make progress. And let me just let me just say this. I am I believe that mixed communities, mixed incomes, mixed uh races definitely helps everybody. It grows everything. It grows, it grows the economy. There are opportunities that come out of that, but everybody is not there yet. Or that mindset, I have no idea why. Well, I do have an idea why. I know, I know why. But let's just put that another way. But I I really what is just so unfortunate is that sometimes um I think there's also this um this mindset or this messaging that comes across as well, if I can just get into the suburban area, then things would be better. I'm talking about our community. Think about how that plays out.

Donna Givens Davidson 54:55

Yes, because again, there's segregation, right? There's hyper discipline of black students in the suburban school districts. So the problem though is racism, right? We need problems.

SPEAKER_02 55:07

We need researchers at the University of Michigan to go into these suburban Metro Detroit schools and talk to these students. Talk go to Midland and talk to the black students of Midland Public Schools like in the 2000s. We don't I like I'm gonna be able to tell my kids I moved out of my hometown because of racism in the 2000s. Yeah.

Donna Givens Davidson 55:25

You know, I used to be, I used to research this, not under any you know, banner. I used to research this. I would look at this the state education, Michigan Department of Education, no, the the education statistics, national education statistics, you can get a d there's database on how many black kids are in honors classes, how many black kids are in special education, how many black kids are being suspended, how many black kids are being expelled, and the overrepresentation of black kids and all of those statistics, most many of them in special education who don't belong there, then you have the tracking, right? You have the slow track, then you have the AP track, and most black kids do not end up in the AP track. I sure didn't. Um so when when my here's my story. My kids were at Renaissance, and Renaissance had a new school principal, and I I wasn't feeling her, right? For good reasons. Um and I felt like I just wanted my daughter to have a better education. So a lot of parents pulled their kids out. I was living in the Birmingham, Michigan School District. I was in Southfield, but in the Birmingham district. Sarah's able to go to um Renaissance because her dad lived in Detroit. Okay. So I moved her to Birmingham. And the year she moved, her school counselor from Renaissance actually moved to Renaissance, moved to Grows as well. So now she's her school counselor's at Gross, and she tells Sarah, she says, tells me, I'm not gonna put her in the remedial track because she came from Renaissance, but because she comes from Detroit, they want to put they'll want to put her in the remedial track. I'm gonna put her in the college prep track.

SPEAKER_00 57:02

Oh wow.

Donna Givens Davidson 57:03

So she's in the college prep track, and um she they had to do a paper on the Great Gatsby, and her teachers, oh, don't even bother to turn that in. You're new here. And so she turned it in anyway, and her teacher was so impressed she put her in the honors track. So now my daughter is one of like two kids in her age who are in the honors track because all of the black kids, including her good friends, who went to middle school with her, are in the remedial track or in the regular track, right? So then my son comes and he's going from Southfield to a um a Birmingham middle school. And he had never gotten anything other than other than an A. He got scored off the charts in everything he did. They wouldn't put him in honors classes. So then when he's going to high school, he wants to take biology his freshman year. And they said, You can't take biology because you're not in honors math. And I said, Well, look at his test scores. I said, Well, you know, it there's a lot of biology, there's a lot of math in biology. And I said, you know what? I almost completed my biology major in an undergrad, and I did. And they said, Well, school should go to U of M. Oh. So, make a long story short, when they finally told me they were going to put him in the honors track or let him take biology, not even honors track, just taking biology as freshman year, because they had special science classes for black kids. I said, I'm not having this conversation. Let's put this on public record, meet me at the school board and bring his transcript so we can put this on public record. Oh, well, do you think I should ask around? He graduated with the highest GPA in his high school in his class, okay? But I had to prove that my honor student had to prove it. He was tutoring all the other kids, but I had to prove because he was black, they didn't want to believe he was ready. So I started tracking that and I started giving him information. Now he starts educating his kids. So I actually started an educational practice where I was telling parents, let me help you. Your kids are in these remedial programs, let me help you figure out, don't let them put them in Lincoln Academy because Lincoln Academy is a trap. So I get the argument against school desegregation.

SPEAKER_03 59:03

Yes.

Donna Givens Davidson 59:04

But I also think we got to fight those people who do that.

SPEAKER_03 59:07

But it's it's right, because so so there's a couple different things that's at play here. We're also dealing with racism, we all wait, we know it. We're dealing with the inequities and just how easily it is to just disinvest in our schools and the resources just go along with it. The and I as you talked about your son, I thought about my nephew. My nephew graduated salutatorian uh at Cody High School in 2013. Um he had a 3.9. He swears to God to this day they cheated him out of a 0.5 uh think he should have been valued. He sounds just like he said he should have been valedictory. Uh all around discipline, great athlete, got a scholarship, all of that. Went to Michigan State. Of course, he and I, we are, we go back and forth all the time, right? While we're battled. He called me one day and he said, I know why you do this education thing. He said, But I feel like I've been cheated out of my education. I said, What are you talking about? He said, he was in some sort of a math class or something. He said, All of the black kids did not recognize the math that the professor was putting on the whiteboard. And he says, I want to know why I am salutatorian, and I didn't know what the heck he was talking about and what was going on. And then he started talking about too how we started seeing how some of the black kids are on a different, different, kind of like a different track than than the regular. And he just he's he was just, he's been so upset ever since. Now things didn't really work out for him because football was his dream, but he was also smart and all of these things. And this is what I'm talking about. A lot of times we we track what's happening in K through 12, but I'm also interested what happens to those kids who didn't quite make it. You got out of high high school, you may have made a year or two in college, couldn't keep up for whatever reason, or the money was like.

Donna Givens Davidson 1:00:56

We know what happens a lot of times though. They're back on the streets the academic identity, okay? And so I did research on this too. Okay, okay. All right, academic identity is your formation of how you see yourself. Now you have a kid who's smart, you're a straight A student at Cody, and you're smart, you know you're smart, and you go to Michigan State and you're struggling, and now you no longer see yourself as smart. And that change in your identity, I tell every young person who graduates from here, don't allow this to impact you. It's not about smart, it's about are you prepared? And you can work, you can work through it, you can always relearn it. But that is the thing that it's like you hit a brick wall, and so many salutatorians and valedictorians in Detroit go to college and they are shocked by the fact that A, we don't we aren't finishing our textbooks. I used to work in um in northern when Northern High School existed on Woodward. I was talking to some kids, they were teaching algebra two out of an algebra one um textbook. They would teach the first half of the textbook was algebra one, and the second half of the algebra one textbook was algebra two. There's no way you're gonna be prepared for algebra when you go to college if you think that these are two separate classes. When Sarah went to um Groves, that's the first time she ever completed a textbook. She said, We finished this textbook. I can't believe we finished this textbook. Wow. And then when Philip was taking his honors math at Michigan, they were taking, they were, they were learning math from the same textbooks they use at U of M. So they're teaching in high school the same text. And keep in mind, this the the teachers in high school are certified teachers. Those professors in college are not certified to teach, they are academics. And so the quality teaching is not there in the same way that it is in high school, and that's where a lot of our kids get messed up. And I I I could talk about this. Obviously, I'm really passionate about education reform. I was in it for a while. I got my master's degree focusing on education reform because I think we need you uh deeper in the work.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:02

I'm just blown away because you know, Imani, my colleague that's works with us at 42, she talks about this all the time, her own story. Where she went, she went to Renaissance, she went to Northwestern, and she felt she just she said she needed so much help to just try to keep up. She was blown away about the things that she didn't know, and how she said it she really understood how a lot of kids, and it's not just Detroit, a lot of kids in our urban areas, they're going off to college and how they feel and the work that you kind of have to do to just kind of get back and all of these resources and supports that she needed. And thank God she had that. She was able to tap into that. But what happens to those kids who are not able because they are oftentimes they're coming back home or they just graduate high school because they're assisting.

Donna Givens Davidson 1:03:54

And we have to prepare them partly psychologically, we have to give them the resilience you talk about. When you understand what's about to happen, then you prepare yourself. But when you go there and you think, look, I'm on top of the world, and then you find out that you're not, it has an it takes an emotional toll. And a lot of young people therefore leave and never go back because they are so disoriented, so so disillusioned.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:19

So I think even more so, you guys mentioning your own children, my own situation was not as the valedictorian or even knowing how to say that word, uh, because it was um I was you know middle of the road student. I wasn't good or bad at anything. Um I was told by my math teacher who was a basketball coach that didn't teach me math. Sam, you you you don't understand math. You probably should have been held back in in certain things. And I say, Well, you know, they tried to do that to me in elementary school, and my mom refused. Um black children are treated differently in Midland. They certainly were when I grew up. Um they were treated as if they were intellectually inferior by authority figures, leaders of communities, and a lot of the leaders of those communities, high school football and basketball coaches, really were predatory in their recruitment tactics of poor black families. Yeah. Getting them apartments or live with me at my house, or to just have the kid on the on the team.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:20

Um, yeah, really sad what goes on. Arlisa, we we want to talk more with you. We're so excited for uh these new um um programs here on the Authentically Detroit Podcast Network, uh, of course, with Ian Solomon and Amplify Outside. And um now you, Arlisa Heard, the host of the Have You Heard podcast. We're gonna take a break, uh, and when we come back, we're gonna do some shout outs. You're listening to Authentically Detroit. Applications have opened for the East Side Community Network Summer Discovery Program. Designed for students entering seventh, eighth, and ninth grade in the fall of 26. This summer experience is a full-day in-person program that combines structured academic learning, hands-on enrichment experiences, and creativity to guide youth in developing life skills related to political and civic engagement, climate change, and environmental justice using art-based expression as a tool for learning and empowerment. The program runs from June 29th to July 31st from 8 30 a.m. to 5 o'clock PM. Applications close on April 30th. For more details on how to apply, visit ecn-detroit.org slash youth. We want to thank you so much for listening in and supporting our efforts to build a platform of authentic voices for real people here in the city of Detroit. We want you to like, rate, and subscribe to our platform, to our podcast, excuse me, on all of the platforms that you can listen to it on. Now it is time for shout outs. Uh we want to remind you that if you want to come on our show, if you have topics that you feel need to be discussed, please do hit us up on our socials at Authentically Detroit on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, or visit our website authentically-detroit.com. Donna, let's start with you.

Donna Givens Davidson 1:07:25

Any shout-outs? I do. I want to shout out um the actress Danae Guerrera. I hope I got her. Okay. That looks good. Yes. Um, she wrote a play called Eclipsed that deals with one of the many uh civil wars in Liberia and the women who experienced how women experience civil war. It's brilliant. We saw it at the repertory theater yesterday. I encourage everybody to see it. There's so many themes in there. Um, but it was also heartbreaking. Um, an absolutely brilliant move um play. And shout out to the Detroit Repertory Theater for doing such a great job of presenting outstanding. Didn't I see you at the repertory theater when fences? Not fences, it was fence. It was a P It was something else. It was a piano. It was it was August Wilson. Was it okay? I didn't think it was Fence, it wasn't Fence, it was the piano.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:19

Oh, the piano, yeah, the piano lesson. Yeah, the piano lesson. That's it. Yes, I saw you. Isn't it great? Yes, it is a gym hidden right there in plain sight. What a gym. And I was just really impressed, and I really enjoyed it. I had never, and I stayed not far from there, had never been there, and I really, really enjoyed it. That's awesome. A lot of people should partake more.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:42

Uh Kevin, do you have any shout-outs? Um I think I'm gonna shout out my wife. Yeah, yeah. I was gonna say you're in a shout-out. Especially with that new baby coming.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:51

Arlisa, any shout-outs? Um, I hadn't really thought about this, really, but um I'm gonna shout out uh I'm gonna shout out my family because I love them. And they've been so supportive. Um, and and I'm gonna shout out my family.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:11

Shout out to the family. Family. I want to shout out my family, uh, all of my family that I've collected um in Kalamzoo in in Detroit. Even the family that I got is still living in Midland over there at Northwood University. That is so funny that we both came to that because yeah, every time I see a Northwood Timberwolves, I'm like, yeah, the Northwood alumni chat. Oh my god, that's probably the worst thing ever. They go to loons games to celebrate. Well, they go every year, you know. What is it? The um I've been to one of those alumni games. Yes, I swear to God, I've been. Uh so shout out to all the people at Northwood. And now you know that the school is built like a dollar sign. You have to. Yes, it is. That is interesting. I want to shout out everybody at the NAACP Freedom Fund dinner last night, all the people that put it all together every year. Um I ended up talking to so many good people like Garley Skill Press. Oh, I did, yeah. I had on my tie.

Donna Givens Davidson 1:10:10

Let me tell you, Sam was clean. He took me how to speak to me. I had to say, Sam, speak to me.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:17

Oh, I was in the middle of the method. No, no, no.

Donna Givens Davidson 1:10:20

Look at his brace. Cleanless. I did.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:23

He was too sharp to talk. Oh, I get it now. I got my, you know, our good picture together, and I was like, I gotta wear a tie.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:29

Yeah, so shout out to my good friend Leah Jackson uh at Detroit Branch NAACP and all the people, Wendell Anthony and Camellia Landrum, that put it together. Um great night last night. Uh yeah, shout out to the advancement of colored people, I guess suppose. Who was the who was like uh best cheeker? Um it was Hakeem Jeffries and um uh Ruby Bridges was there. That was really cool to see her talk about her parents. Um Letitia James, the New York Attorney General, was shouting out Dana Essel. Um so yeah, you had to hear hear from everybody. The theme of the night was the opposition to the Save Act, the federal voting um initiative, and then the the local one is Americans for Citizens only voting, Americans for citizens voting. Um I would imagine coalitions are gonna come together to oppose that. It's it's likely going to end up on the November ballot this year.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:22

Well, they dumped all the money in the state.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:23

They did, and so they they got 750,000 signatures. I was asking Wendell Anthony and Garland and others. Ellie Savitt spoke to this as well. He told me that it's going to disenfranchise women and people with you know, perhaps non-Anglo names, Arabic people, or say a Rodriguez with a Z versus a Rodriguez with a S. That initiative, the language, um, you know, it would force people to match what the name that's on their ID to the their voting card.

Donna Givens Davidson 1:11:49

Having been married three times, I'm in trouble. You are yes, you are.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:54

So you're your example of one of those folks.

Donna Givens Davidson 1:11:56

I am like, I am like, and they they're looking for my voting records and be like, no, this she's got all these names.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:02

They're gonna say that you got people out of the ECN, you know. Nick Shirley's gonna come and say that you're not doing anything here.

Donna Givens Davidson 1:12:07

I know.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:09

You know who I'm talking about. Yeah, some of the people listening know who that is.

Donna Givens Davidson 1:12:13

I used to go to the store and see these people with these certificates, and I would like to get into arguments with people. Sam and I were both doing the same thing. I think one week. Well, I'll ask them.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:22

I'll ask, what are you uh soliciting for? What are you collecting signatures for? And they'll lie to you, they'll straight up like that. They will lie to you.

Donna Givens Davidson 1:12:28

I asked two, and then when they lied, I corrected them, and then when I corrected them, they lied again, and then they started running away from me. Uh anyway.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:36

Yeah, anyway. I did the same thing too, and they'll they'll say they were saying anything to people. They will. Oh, God. A couple years ago. I know people got tricked into signing it.

Donna Givens Davidson 1:12:45

I know I saw this very intelligent older woman who signed it and thought she was doing something good, and then when I explained it to her, she was humiliated, and that made me so angry because you know, the exploitation of good people.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:02

Oh, absolutely, terrible. All right, well, we want to thank you. Please like, rate, and subscribe to Authentically Detroit on all of our platforms. We will talk to you guys again tomorrow, the next day, the next day after that. Uh, keep it locked here, Authentically Detroit. Thank you guys so much.