Beauty and Political Beef with Jessica Kwalli

In this episode, Donna and Sam ran down some of the hottest political topics across the city including some of the upcoming primary elections. They also sat down the Jessica Kwalli, the owner of Jessica Blair Beauty.

Jessica Kwalli is no stranger to identifying and servicing the needs of others which is why she is the Founder & CEO of Black Diamond Beauty Supply Co. LLC. As a native Detroiter, she was always at the epicenter of beauty and fashion. Growing up in the inner city made her realize there was a lack of representation and ownership in the hair care industry reflecting its largest consumers––African Americans. After repeated incidents of poor customer service and a lack of knowledge in Black hair at local beauty supply businesses, Kwalli made it her mission to create a hair care disruptor by the people and for the people.

To stay up to date on all things Authentically Detroit, click here. 

THIS WEEK IN THE MICHIGAN CHRONICLE:

STATE SENATE CANDIDATES AIYASH, ONWENU CLASH AT DETROIT FORUM 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Up next, Authentically Detroit welcomes Jessica Qually, the owner of Jessica Blair Beauty, to discuss how she's making a name for herself in the beauty industry. And of course, what we're reading from the Michigan Chronicle. Plus a huge congratulations to Orlando Bailey and the team at Outlier Media for their awards from Wayne State University's Journalism Institute for Media Diversity, SPJ Detroit. Keep it locked. Authentically Detroit is going to start right after these messages.

SPEAKER_01 0:26

Interested in renting space for corporate events, meetings, conferences, social events, or resource fairs, the Sodomar Wellness Hub and Mass Detroit Small Business Hub are available for rental by members, residents, businesses, and organizations. We offer rentals for activities such as corporate events, social events, meetings, conferences, art classes, fitness classes, and more. To learn more about our rentals and reserve space, visit ecnetroit.org slash space rental.

SPEAKER_00 1:26

Welcome to another episode of Authentically Detroit. We're broadcasting live from the East Side Community Network. I'm Sam Robinson.

Donna Givens Davidson 1:33

And I'm Donna Givens Davidson.

SPEAKER_00 1:35

Thank you so much for listening in and supporting our efforts to build a platform of authentic voices for real people here in the city of Detroit. We want you to like, rate, and subscribe to our podcast on all platforms. Today, joining us is Jessica Qually, the founder of Jessica Blair Beauty. She's in the building with us. Jessica, you are no stranger to identifying and servicing the needs of others, which is why she's the founder and CEO of Black Diamond Beauty Supply Company LLC. She is a native Detroiter, was always at the epicenter of beauty and fashion. Growing up in the inner city made her realize there was a lack of representation and ownership in the hair care industry, reflecting its largest consumers, African Americans. After repeated incidents of poor customer service and a lack of knowledge in black hair at local beauty supply businesses, quality made it her mission to create a hair care disruptor by the people and for the people. Jessica, welcome to Authentically Detroit. How are you today?

SPEAKER_05 2:33

Thank you. I'm good. Thank you for having me. Um, the first thing I did want to clarify so people don't get confused: Black Diamond is my former uh business name. Okay. So the current name is Jessica Blair Beauty Supply, but it did start off as Black Diamond Beauty Company.

SPEAKER_00 2:49

That was the OG name.

SPEAKER_05 2:51

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 2:51

And what what uh sparked the transition?

SPEAKER_05 2:54

So when I got ready to trademark Black Diamond Beauty Supply Company, you would have thought that I would have seen the other business that existed in California. But luckily, when we were doing a search, I went on their website and it was like the same exact branding that I had here. Like it was a beauty supply store, the same logo, same color scheme, same everything. And so at first I was kind of devastated because everybody who knows me from when I first was starting, they knew me as Black Diamond. Like people still nickname me and call me Black Diamond because that was like my passion. So I was devastated when I had to change the name. But that same week, I was meeting with one of my advisors from Tech Town, and her and then my significant significant other at that time, they both were like, Why don't you just use your name? And at first I was so against it. I was like, no, like, what? Why would I use my name? And so after I thought about it a little bit and I was like, okay, let's go for it. And I met with my trademark attorney, and she was like, We have a green light. There's nothing out here with that name, with that color scheme. Um, so this is a great way to set yourself apart. And that's kind of how Jessica Blair Beauty came about.

SPEAKER_00 4:08

There is a lack of black beauty supplies in the city of Detroit, which is a little bit crazy.

SPEAKER_05 4:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:14

Talk about it. I mean, whenever I go in, I'm always kind of interested to know, you know, who um these folks are and where they're getting their products from. Um, and there's a lot of conversation that uh, you know, I don't know if they've I've ever read any reporting about this. Like in the city. I can speak to it.

Donna Givens Davidson 4:32

I can speak to it a little bit. And that is, you know, because when I grew up, um, I had a friend whose parents owned a beauty supply. Um and there were several black-owned beauty supplies. Of course, we were talking about the 1970s and 1980s. But what happens is that you have groups of people from other places who come together and um have these purchasing trials or whatever where they're purchasing everything at a discount. And they can undercut the business. They provide um small business loans to each other to help support their businesses, and it makes it very hard for Black Beauty Supply to compete with prices and also with some of the startup capital. Is that an accurate reflection of some of the barriers?

SPEAKER_05 5:15

That is absolutely accurate. Okay, very accurate, actually. Um, and that was one of my concerns, like when I was first going into it, because I literally spent probably like I would say like six to eight months just researching the industry before I even took steps forward to even getting into it. And that was one of the things I read the most was about, you know, the lack of capital, um competing with larger beauty supply stores who are able to get a lot more product at a cheaper rate. And then what a lot of people don't realize is a lot of these beauty supply stores, they're not really competitors, they're owned by the same people or their own, their family, or they're they're funded by the same people.

Donna Givens Davidson 5:57

I was reading something where when people want to open a store, there's I they I think what what I was reading, they called them triads. They would give them like $10,000, open your store or whatever, and then you're doing that same purchasing. The same thing happened with Spartan foods, and that put independent black um grocers out of business because they are purchasing their foods. They don't call themselves Spartan anymore. There's a longer name to it. But for a while you saw the Spartan brand on food and you knew people were purchasing collectively. There's nothing wrong with that, really, except that as a community, black people have not done that. And so everybody's on their own. There's this um individualism mindset that maybe we could look at some of that and say, why don't we do more of that?

SPEAKER_05 6:41

Right. What do you think of that? That is absolutely true. And so one of the things I did notice, that's a big point about the buying power, because there was a beauty supply store out in Farmington who also had relatives who own stores in Detroit. So when one of the stores in Detroit was kind of struggling, they were able to take product and loans and stuff from that store in Farmington until the store in Detroit, you know, was back on its feet. So, like what I do with some of um the other African-American beauty supply owners, it's only a handful of us, but we have a group chat. And so now we kind of use our buying power together. So, like if somebody has a hair account that another black-owned store doesn't have, we work with each other. Or, like, for example, if we have a surplus of inventory and we need to move that inventory, we may reach out to someone else and be like, hey, are you short on this inventory? Like, could this be of use to you? So now we kind of work collectively. So even though we're different stores, different names, not owned by the same, you know, owners, but we still work together behind the scenes because there's not many of us.

Donna Givens Davidson 7:47

So what would be kind of cool is also if you started purchasing. Now I think there are um one exception to that, it seems like there are a number of black um women, especially who own um hair um, you know what is it, weave um industries. I don't know where they're getting it from, but I know of a young lady who does, and I'm sure there's more than one. Can you talk about where you get your hair?

SPEAKER_03 8:12

Yeah.

Donna Givens Davidson 8:13

And um, is that an area where you're seeing more black people being involved?

SPEAKER_05 8:17

Yeah. So for me, I actually source my hair from so many different places. So it was kind of hard to just say like one place, but yeah, they all do come from overseas. Some of the vendors are in China, some of the vendors are in India, some of the vendors are in Indonesia. It just depends on like the hair type and the company because it's so many different um hair companies. And then another major one I forgot is Vietnam. Um, a lot of people don't realize people automatically think, oh, hair comes from China, but a lot of the top brands you see, if you actually read the package, is coming from Vietnam or Cambodia.

Donna Givens Davidson 8:53

The other thing that's interesting is like even in the like the nail care business, right? Um, there were these grants, I believe that were given to Vietnamese people, and they were giving them small business training, and that's the reason they dominate um nail care.

SPEAKER_01 9:07

Yes.

Donna Givens Davidson 9:09

Yes. And so um other communities have found ways to really make a lot of money inside of predominantly black communities, servicing our needs, and you are doing something different. Yes. But it's not just your ownership as a woman, because I remember when you were in the planning stages of your business, um, there were other things that were different about your products. Can you talk about those things?

SPEAKER_05 9:31

Yeah, so one of the big things about Jessica Blair Beauty, although I do carry a lot of the top products that you find at any beauty supply store, I do partner with a lot of local Detroit-based brands. So they're not just uh local brands, but they're actually curated and created in Detroit. Um, a couple of them being Moy Hair Essentials, Preva, which is a skincare and men's beard line. I love Preva. We all love Freva.

SPEAKER_04 9:59

Yeah, shout out to you, Scott.

SPEAKER_05 10:01

Yeah. Um, MG Studio, um, Crown of a Woman. That's just a few I can name off the top of my head right now. But that was one of my biggest things going into the beauty spa industry. I knew, like, okay, if I can penetrate this market, how can I also give other people the platform that they need? How can I also give them, you know, we had so many great Detroit-based brands, but they just needed that opportunity for more people to learn about them. So even like with um Moy Hair Essentials, we do a lot of collaborations together because she's also an up-and-coming Detroit-based brand. And I love her hair products. I love her. The owner is so sweet, and it's like it's easier for us to work together than to, you know, all be working in our own little silos.

Donna Givens Davidson 10:47

Yeah. So that's kind of cool. Um, are there differences in those products? Sometimes I worry about the kinds of things I put in my hair because um it's like, what is in here? And I know that there's been this move towards beauty products and hair bombs and skin balms and other kinds of things. It's really cool. Lipsticks, you know. Um, what's different and how do you promote that to potential customers about the products that you sell?

SPEAKER_05 11:14

Yes. So I actually love promoting the Detroit-based products because believe it or not, those are the products that are a lot cleaner. Those are the products that actually are probably something you should be putting in your hair. So a lot of times when I talk to customers, I'll literally show them the back of a label of two different hair oils. For example, Crown of a Woman, she has the organic vitamin E oil. And then I'll show them like another high-end hair oil that everybody wants. And when you literally look at the ingredients list, her hair oil, I think, has like three ingredients. When you look at the other hair oil from like a major company, it's like a hundred ingredients in very small letters.

Donna Givens Davidson 11:52

And can I pronounce every word on here? Exactly. You know where this is here from.

SPEAKER_05 11:57

Exactly. So that's always a selling point for the local brands because their products are actually like great quality. Even more hair essentials. Her products are a lot cleaner than a lot of the natural hair care products that's on the market. Like we see all of these major hair products, you know, that are popular on TikTok and Instagram, but it's also like, are they really good for you? Right. Just because they're popular doesn't mean that they're good for you.

Donna Givens Davidson 12:21

Are they good for your skin? Are they good for your hair? Right. Will they break it out or dry it out and all those other types of things? Do you tell tell us about your background though? So you did not, you know, go into business. That's not your big background. It's not. Um, what is your background and how did that play into you starting this?

SPEAKER_05 12:41

Yes. So business just really became my secondary thing. I never, I was never really a person who like dreamed of business or like dreamed of entrepreneurship. It was like I fell into it. Um kind of from 2020. I think 2020 was a pivotal moment for a lot of people. But for me, I was still working in healthcare at that time. Um, my degree is actually in kinesiology and health promotion, which is something completely different than business. And so at that time, I wanted to either go into nursing or I wanted to be a physical therapist. So I hadn't decided yet if I wanted to go into a nursing program to be a nurse practitioner or go to PA school to be a physical therapist. But it was like during that time with so much stuff happening um with COVID and with the healthcare system, it was like I was just completely burnt out. And it was like I had to go back to the drawing board. Like, is this truly my passion? Is this what I want to do? And so at that time, um, I just started praying about it. And a beauty supply store had never crossed my mind. And all of a sudden, I couldn't get it out of my head. And so from there I just started researching the industry, trying to figure out, you know, how to get into it because I did always have a passion for like skincare, hair care, beauty, but I didn't really know how to turn that passion into profit. And so it wasn't until like I said, I just started praying about it, and a beauty supply store just wouldn't leave my head, and that's how I'm here today as Jessica Blair Beauty.

Donna Givens Davidson 14:15

So looking at your website, people don't just go to you, you'll bring your products to them. Yes. What does that look like?

SPEAKER_05 14:23

Yeah, so Velvet is also another Detroit-based brand. Um, they created, so it's two women who created an app where it's supposed to be like the DoorDash, but for beauty supplies. So for like a lot of women who you might be at home with like five kids, and it's like, oh my gosh, I ran out of hair grease or I ran out of this conditioner or something, but now I gotta get all of these kids ready to go to the store to get the stuff. Or like we're in Detroit, we have really bad winter sometimes. You might be in the middle of trying to get ready for something and then it's a snowstorm. So they created this app for convenience purposes to where you don't have to leave your doorstep and you can get those beauty products delivered right to your door. How long is the wait? It depends on the radius. So I believe each store has a radius of up to 15 miles. So if you're the furthest 15 miles away, it could be up to a half hour. But if you're closer, it could be as soon as five minutes or 10 minutes. So it really just depends.

Donna Givens Davidson 15:24

And it will come from your store.

SPEAKER_05 15:25

Yes. Okay. So it's also other beauty supplies on that app as well. So I'm not the only beauty supply. It's about, I would say, maybe five of us that are listed on there. And it right now is just dependent upon the radius. Are those all black-owned stores? I believe so, yes. That's amazing. Yes. Yep. So it's one in Taylor. Um, I believe who's black-owned. It's another one in Southfield that's on there. Um I believe it's another one from Southgate that was listed on there. So we're all kind of spread out. So that's why I say it depends on the radius of where you live, would determine which store you can order from.

SPEAKER_00 16:03

It is so interesting to think about the there's families that own several stores. Where I'm at now, you know, Kelly Beauty supply is the big thing. The Kelly brands, the the big one on Eight Mile, like the biggest. That really should probably be like a Kroger or something. But um it is interesting thinking about just in the city of Detroit, how um black business owners have have really sort of just been shut out.

Donna Givens Davidson 16:31

Well, it's it's again, the it has to happen with intention. You had a lot of people who own stuff and they got priced out.

SPEAKER_03 16:39

Right.

Donna Givens Davidson 16:39

You had people who own buildings and they could not afford the leases. But in order to have a successful business, you have to be able to purchase at one price and sell at another price so you can generate revenue from that. Right. And when the competition across the street is able to sell for less because of um an intentional business arrangement that we were not aware of. Right. It sort of happened overnight. Overnight you had no more black-owned grocery stores, no more black gas stations, no more black beauty supplies. All of our stores were owned by other people. But I, you know, when I tell you I grew up in a neighborhood in a city where black people owned a lot of the businesses that we used to go to. And I can tell you that these were not people saw a market that they could take over and exploit. And I don't mean exploit in a bad way because I'm not hating the people who took our who took the business and filled the need. I am saying to us, it's a call to action for us to come up and because what you're talking about is a circular economy. Yes, it's purchasing from local people who can then make things and have a place to sell them.

SPEAKER_03 17:37

Right.

Donna Givens Davidson 17:37

And um, so that's all exciting. And um, you know, one of the challenges I have with so many of our new businesses is the inability to shop online. Yeah, I do not want to go to the store most of the days. When I get home today, I'm not leaving. I'm gonna go home and eat. I have Father's Day, I cooked for my husband and all of our children, and we are blended families. There's a whole lot of miles and grandchildren. I'm tired, okay? And so, you know, I'm not it's so much easier for me to go to an app. What is the name of the app again? Velvet.

SPEAKER_05 18:08

So it was formerly known as Beauty Go-Go, but they just rebranded to Velvet like a couple months ago. And where's Jessica Blair located? Um, in Rosedale Park on Grand River in between Southfield Freeway and Outer Drive.

Donna Givens Davidson 18:22

And you're located in a building with other beauty businesses. What are that help you?

SPEAKER_05 18:27

So it's so funny because we all kind of came at the same time and nobody knew what each other was gonna be until we got there. So it's weird how it happened, but I'm the beauty supply store. Right next door to me is a spa slash boutique. Um, then there's a barber shop and a hair salon, uh, a flower shop, and then another hair salon and a nail salon on the end. So we're oh, and I'm sorry, upstairs now is another, um, they have different suites upstairs. So it's a lot of hairstylists, um, tattoo artists, piercers, things like that. They do. They do. How is business? It's actually been really good. Um starting off, it was very rocky. Like, I can't lie, and that's for any new business. Um, I probably questioned so many times, like, all right, Jessica, are you crazy? Like, are we still about to do this or are we about to go put this degree to use? Like, that's kind of where I was at. So, at so many points um of opening this store. But here recently, now with the whole the wave of like shopping black-owned, um, with all of the different like court cases that have come out within the past couple weeks or so, a lot of people, a lot of my customers have been very serious about shopping at black-owned beauty supply stores. So, a lot of all of us, really, all of the local black-owned beauty supply stores, we've all been like barely able to keep inventory on the shelves because people have truly been serious to this boycott.

Donna Givens Davidson 20:01

Oh, you know, it's it's amazing to me how life goes full circle.

SPEAKER_03 20:05

Yeah.

Donna Givens Davidson 20:05

How people are in our society thinking, you know what, I'm going to assimilate. I'm not going to worry about being black anymore. We have overcome. And then you find out that you have, and then there's a new consciousness. And that new consciousness is let's take care of our own community, especially when you know that you're hated by our government. Yeah. Um, not all of our government, but certainly a lot of those folks at the federal government level, right? Um, and it reminds me of um a presentation I uh received years ago from this um professor who talked about the post-Reconstruction era. After the Civil War, you went through Reconstruction where black people were given opportunities and a lot of um barriers removed for voting and political office and business ownership and whatever. And then post-Reconstruction is when all those things started being taken away by people in a backlash.

SPEAKER_03 20:55

Yeah.

Donna Givens Davidson 20:56

And when I was growing up, all I ever heard were the sad stories about the backlash and how we lost things. And then someone pointed out that in that time when we lost everything, um, that's where you had the NAACP form. That's when you had Black Hospital Associations form and savings and loans institutions. And certainly I see you have your AKA stuff on black Greek organizations formed in that nader. And so um, when governmental protection gets taken away, somehow we become so innovative and we start creating new things. Right. And I look at what you're doing and the success you're having as possibly evidence of that truth in 2026.

SPEAKER_05 21:33

Yeah, it is. It is because I like I said, being honest, I had a very rocky start. When I first uh was opening my store, before I even opened the doors, it was like I was taking losses before I even opened. Um I had paid a company out of state for inventory and for services, not even realizing they were gonna go out of business like a few months after that. And I never recouped my money. So It's like, how do you operate a store for almost seven months with no inventory? So I tell people it was nothing but God, then my doors was even still open because I had already paid for the inventory that I only got maybe 15% of the inventory that I paid for, and essentially had to figure out how to operate for seven months, you know, without having the proper inventory levels. So it was like it was very testing and you get very creative. Like as an entrepreneur, it's like you're learning so much as you go. Like the thing I always tell people is the stuff you can't plan for. Like we create these business plans, we do all of these programs, but it's always the stuff that you just cannot plan for that can happen.

SPEAKER_00 22:42

Yeah. I want to talk about um my own. You know, when I go uh into a beauty supply, I'm I'm trying to get heat protectant. Um, I'm trying to get braid gel. You know, what what are the brands that I should be looking for in those items?

SPEAKER_05 23:01

So if you want a better braid gel without all the chemicals, there's a company called Pure, and I believe it's spelled like Pure Rio, but it's really pure with an O on it and like like some green, it's like a green label, and it says neat braid. That one is pretty good, and it's a lot cleaner than a lot of the popular ones. But you do have the popular ones that will get the job done, like all day locks, um the BTLs, all of those are still like really popular.

SPEAKER_00 23:30

All day locks, that's the one, the orange top. Yes, yeah. I have that one sitting in my house. That's very there's a purple one too that's also popular. Not the one with the kangaroo on it, but it could be BTL. BTL.

SPEAKER_05 23:43

Um, that's another popular one. Um Bellotique is a newer brand that's become really popular. Pink Lemon is another newer brand that's become really popular. But I always say go for the ones that's cleaner. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 24:02

Some of those other ones might pull your hair out. It'll it'll it'll make it look very neat, but I wouldn't put too much of it in.

Donna Givens Davidson 24:09

You know, that's when you talk about health education. And I always think that that is health education where you talk to people about, you know, what is healthy for their hair and what's healthy for their skin. Um, it's so important that people understand that some of the ingredients for amaldehyde is in some great and other things are in, and we don't know what that is. I mean, we can hear about it in a funeral home, but you know, we don't know why it's used in our beauty products and an impact on us. So hopefully in the future, um, I know that I've seen people have workshops on, you know, on the health of the brands they're using. Is that something you're looking forward to doing?

SPEAKER_05 24:44

I actually would love to do that because one of the things I do right now with some of my customers who um like who actually come in and tell me that they're looking for something that doesn't have a lot of chemicals, or they may tell me some of my customers, believe it or not, will have the most vulnerable moments in there with me with where they'll disclose to me, you know, that they're going through chemotherapy right now, or they just finished chemotherapy. Um, and this is why they need these kind of products. So I have an app on my phone called Yuka where you can literally scan the labels on products and it'll tell you exactly like what chemicals are in it or what chemicals to avoid. Um, so a lot of my customers, I usually do that with them, the ones who actually say, like, hey, I can't have all these chemicals. Is it any product in here that's like actually natural or actually organic?

SPEAKER_00 25:36

Interesting. I want to learn more about your store. I'm gonna go in there and buy some. I gotta you see how I gotta get my hair braided right now. I gotta find a new freaking braider. Um, your journey as a small business owner, uh, I could imagine ups and downs. But uh when you are going through the hard times of the beginning, what kept you afloat? What kept you saying, you know, maybe I'm not making the money that I need to make, but it'll come.

SPEAKER_05 26:08

I always tell people, Jesus is the CEO of this business. So people see my name is CEO, and I literally tell people, like, no, Jesus is the CEO of this business. Because that literally, honestly, was the only thing that kept me going. And it was so funny because every time I would be sitting in my store and I would be praying, like, all right, like this, this is how much I done made. I haven't really had no customers yet. I got all this debt I done took out. And I'll be ready to throw the tile in, and then a customer walked through the door. And then I had to look up, like, God, you are funny. Because like, these are the signs you're telling me, like, to keep going. And now, like looking back, I had to realize I had to go through everything that I went through because it prepared me for now. It prepared me for the success. It prepared me for not losing myself. It prepared me to be able to remember like those days when it really was a super struggle to where I appreciate now, like all the success that I'm getting. But I do truly believe I had to go through all of that. I had, and it also helped me do a lot of self-improvement as an entrepreneur, but also just my personal development. Um, it was very testing, but it was worth it, I could say. You know, like at the time, I always say to be an entrepreneur, you kind of got to be borderline delusional. So it was like in the very beginning when I was having all these issues with like my contractors, I was losing money. Um, I had the issue with my inventory where I took like a $20,000 loss on that. It was just so many things. And I guess I still was slightly delusional to where it was like, all right, eventually this is gonna work. And it did. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:59

Well, that's beautiful. I really want to say congratulations. And um, I really want to uh encourage everybody to take that step, be delusional. Um, when I was laid off from my corporate media job two years ago, I set out on my own and said, I don't know if this is gonna work, but let me try it out. And yeah, our community shows up for us.

Donna Givens Davidson 28:22

Yeah, definitely. And when you show up for the community, they show back up for you. They should so you're bringing good products and you're helping other people out. Uh one commend you. Thank you for coming in. I will be there possibly, but definitely I will be on Velvet, ordering from they would love to hear that.

SPEAKER_05 28:43

I'm sure they would love to hear. Um, they've been getting a lot more attraction now, so that's a great thing.

Donna Givens Davidson 28:48

Yeah, my granddaughter lives over there, so sometimes I'm in the neighborhood, dropping her off, whatever. I might stop by when I'm on the west side, but I'm an east side or so within 15 miles, though. So, yeah, I think this will be great. Oh, thank you for coming in for having me.

SPEAKER_00 29:04

Yes, we are gonna take a break when we come back. We're gonna talk about what's happening this week in the world of uh state legislative races, one that all of you are tuned in and tapped into. Uh, we're gonna hear from some of those candidates uh later tonight. Um come on back on Authentically Detroit. We're gonna be talking about the first state senate district race. But first, we want to talk about the black Detroit Democracy Handbook. It's out now, I'm looking right at it. Donna, the black Detroit Democracy Handbook has been a long time in the works.

SPEAKER_04 30:22

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 30:23

Uh A Citizen's Guide to Action. Talk about it. Uh, this is another um uh work from Authentically Detroit Press.

Donna Givens Davidson 30:32

Yeah. So this the genesis of this is so longstanding. Um, I hear people say, well, democracy doesn't work, it doesn't matter who you vote for, they all sell you out. And I see so many things, and there's this growing popularity of a belief that we are powerless. And um, so a couple things. One, I've I started teaching, as you all know, if you listen, at Columbia University in 2021. And in the run-up to that, I started reading a lot of books about Detroit's history, and I was really fascinated with how much influence black Detroiters exerted when they were in a definite minority and when power seemed um hopeless. I mean, you had everything from the Blackburn riots in 1833 before black people were recognized as citizens, and in many places as human beings, and yet um black people came together and prevailed over a situation where somebody was going to be returned into um enslavement. And that was just really, wow, look at the community, tiny community coming together and saying, no, not today. Um, and there were so many examples of how black people came together in formation and management of the Underground Railroad, um, how Supreme Court cases were won in the 1890s in the state of Michigan. And this was all due to the moxie, to this feeling that we can make good things happen. And so to see people feeling powerless in 2024, 25, 26, this idea that we don't have power because corporations do, um, is problematic. This idea that democracy became problematic these past few years when for so much of our history in this United States, we did not have any rights that were recognized by our government. Um, well, that speaks to me to a broken democracy, right? And so the question is what is democracy? It's not voting. Voting is a tool of democracy, but it is only one of seven ideas that I have around what democracy can and should be. Everything from identifying candidates to identifying issues to reshaping narratives around why things are the way they are, to voting, to funding campaigns, but also you have a monitoring and putting pressure on candidates after they are elected. Um, people say, well, you know, these candidates only listen to moneyed interest. When you vote for somebody, and that's the last time somebody hears from you, the very next day after they're elected, they're going to be hearing from moneyed interest every single day, making demands on them every single day. So while you go home, other people are stepping up to the plate, even entities that cannot vote. And the question is, why don't we continue to put the pressure on? Um, you can like a candidate and still hold them accountable, just like you love your children and you still hold them accountable, just like you love your partners or your wife or husband and still hold them accountable, or your friends, or the people you work for. So this idea that you eat that that support and accountability don't go hand in hand is to me ridiculous. Um, but it's how you give up your power. And so I wrote this book um to try to piece together a whole lot of ideas that have been in the making in my mind, and I've been reading about things about the fact that U.S. democracy as a whole is declining, not just in places like Detroit. Um, and then you have to look at the impact of things like emergency management. So the book is divided into four sections. The first section being um democracy, citizenship, and the unfinished promise of equality. And then the second section is a long black Detroit tradition that takes us all the way back to Detroit is a gateway to freedom, the Underground Railroad to the collapse of voter engagement. And then the civic map, how Detroit is actually governed. Um it's not the way you learned in school. Um, everything you think you know about how the city is governed is going to be um, you know, different once you really look in the details. And what if you don't understand how um government is structured, you don't know how to fight back and how to get the things that you want out of government. And then finally, a section on reconstructing black power seven strategies. Um and then finally a close with a conclusion what Detroit has done before, Detroit can do it again, can do again. We are powerful and we have the capacity to build back our power, not in a way that's taking it from somebody else, but in making sure that black people are adequately represented at every part of our government and our needs, collective needs and individual needs are being met. Um, if you look at our city right now, our city treats corporations and wealthy people like customers. That's who they design their policy for. People who show up and vote and people who get actively involved are citizens. But people who are on the sidelines, who are disengaged and not making active demands, really, even though legally we are citizens, we are functioning in our world as if we are subjects, non-citizens, people who do not have full rights of citizenship, and that's gotta change.

SPEAKER_00 36:12

Where can people find the handbook?

Donna Givens Davidson 36:16

Well, um, later this week you'll be able to pick it up at ECN. But right now, um, we have um we're gonna be putting it on our um online on the authentic authentically Detroit store website. You can get it from Amazon um right now, but of course we want you to get it from other places, and ultimately also I will be offering workshops and I'm working with various people who are also going to be offering workshops to really provide some level of training. I've been really, really encouraged by the response I've gotten from other activists, other organizers, other people doing this kind of work because it is all written down, and a lot of times these are just things we say, and there is no reference material. So this is creating a reference material that will hopefully be used by other folks.

SPEAKER_00 37:02

I want to talk about an important campaign update in our Michigan governor's race. Just today, I'm having to eat all of my words said on previous episodes of this podcast, talking about how John James was not in the favor of Donald Trump. Because today Trump endorsed John James. You know, there was a question whether this would happen. Eric Nesbitt, um, John Yab, Michon Maddock, and Perry Johnson. Um, Eric Nesbitt is a state senator running for governor, and then John Yab and Michon Maddock are working for Perry Johnson, but those are actually the more important figures. Perry is just a rich guy. Michon and John and a lot of these sort of um um operators, Republican GOP operators in Michigan, uh, they are Trump loyalists to the core. Uh Trump could shoot somebody on Fifth Avenue, and Michon would be the first person to defend him and tell him why it was justified.

Donna Givens Davidson 38:02

And John James would be the second.

SPEAKER_00 38:03

He would not, yes. And John has been really working hard on this um for a long time. And it has not convinced Michon or John Yab, which is why they convinced Perry Johnson to run. Um it's it's really interesting that the um initial sort of, well, I don't I don't know if I like John running for governor because it opens up an opportunity for Democrats to take his House seat. Um it doesn't matter in the end. Uh Perry Johnson nor Eric Nesbitt could suck up to Trump enough. And so John James is the winner in that contact.

Donna Givens Davidson 38:42

John James did a very good job sucking up to him, actually putting out a commercial this past week, and you know, I sent that to you as more proof where he says, Hey, Trump has endorsed me four times. Nobody else can say that. Um and it's so it's very interesting to me that somebody like that would also like to pretend as though they are not in his pocket. They are. And it looks to me as though um, as it looked like um Cox was actually gaining on James. And that may be why Trump ended up endorsing him because he didn't want Cox, who was a little bit more distanced from from Trump. Very distant. Yes. So he didn't want him to have the opportunity to um you know defeat Meg in Michigan. And um Perry Johnson, he had his weaknesses. He was not actually that convincing. And so what he was able, he was flipping, right, as Cox was growing. And um and and James was sort of staying in place. So it's a fate accompli. I think many of us expected it to be John James versus Jocelyn Benson, and now the race is pretty much clear, in my view.

SPEAKER_00 39:41

Yes, uh Trump's endorsement will um affect that race. I don't think he um needed the endorsement of Donald Trump to win this Republican primary. However, um now that he has the support, and sort of the back the inside baseball um dynamics here was that John James is supported by the DeVos family. The DeVos family, as we know, has had some um issues with Trump after January 6th. Bessie DeVos. Bessie DeVos has had it. And so, yes, the whole DeVos family, Amway, the Orlando Magic. Um, you know, they they actually they they they pay one of the most vocal MAGA NBA players. His name is Jonathan Isaac. Right.

Donna Givens Davidson 40:21

I mean, but also you also have to look at Eric Prince and Blackwater and the role of Blackwater as a um private militia that goes to war, he makes a lot of money in these um, you know, engaging in extra legal activities. There's been reports that when they go to other places and fight, that they torture and do other things that um U.S. soldiers cannot get away with. So um Eric Prince is like this dark force in the DeVos family, and he came out very strongly in favor of Trump last year, even as Betsy, his sister, was not quite sure where she stood. But when you are a billionaire, um you're never gonna be completely on the outs of a person like Trump because he still needs the favor of billionaires. I mean, even though remember Elon Musk and Trump were warring to a certain extent, but they're never gonna get that far apart. This is just like a sibling rivalry or family feud that ends up being resolved in favor of um um empire and and um a shared uh focus on wealth building white supremacy.

SPEAKER_00 41:28

Yes. Um John James, uh, let me read the the statement from Justin Benson's campaign. Nikki Goldsheen said Donald Trump's endorsement of John James is just more proof for voters that James will put his own extreme agenda ahead of what's white for Michigan while families are struggling with the rising costs of everything groceries, gas, prescription, drugs. James has spent the last year focused on one thing, winning Donald Trump's approval. That comes as no surprise. These two failed DC politicians have worked in lockstep to make life more expensive for Michigan families, the Benson campaign says. Um John James, Jocelyn Benson, black Republican, white liberal. I could imagine that a lot of these union endorsements for Swanson, I could imagine that the racial discrimination lawsuit against the MDLS, I could imagine that a lot of of um the things that the data center relationship that Benson has is gonna be brought up in this in this um post-primary once it's you know heading into the general election.

Donna Givens Davidson 42:42

I mean, I think what they're more likely to bring up is the Southern Poverty Law Center.

SPEAKER_00 42:46

Which is something else. You know, I keep reading the details, and I'm just like, you know, I I don't know if what you're trying to say is what was happening. Um and I I don't know. I don't know if you can trust the Trump Department of Justice. You don't know? Yeah, well well, yeah.

Donna Givens Davidson 43:03

Because I can help you out. I know. Um there's this book um in my library. I've been reading it kind of, and it's a secret war against hate, where they talk about the rise of Nazis and some of these folks right after World War II. And the exact same thing was happening. You had these people going on and investigating um um hate groups, and then they were investigated for investigating hate groups because they were saying, listen, you're contributing to them the same kind of backwards logic. Um basically the um fight against the Southern Poverty Law Centers, they get um money from donors to infiltrate hate groups so they can monitor hate groups and hold them accountable and also report them to law enforcement. And somehow that infiltration is looked at as collusion, and people know it's not. Um, but if you are a hate group or you're a hateful person, then that's gonna look very um Is it's going to look like treason. You are infiltrating our hate and trying to expose us. And so you have to understand that, in my view, there are people uh in the Trump administration who are des definitely aligned with groups that are um under attack by the Southern Povert Poverty Law Center and they found a way to defame them. The challenge for them is that Trump has no credibility with data centers, with the environment, with racism, or any of these things John James wants to bring up. And John James trying to, you know, leverage that as a black man is almost the kind of thing that's going to enrage other black people. Like, how dare you when you won't even tell this man that to stop attacking black people, to stop attacking black nations. He calls a nation a shithole nation, and John James has no answer for that. But if um if somehow um Jocelyn Benson, who is an imperfect candidate, but she could not find a more perfect time to run as an imperfect candidate than when she's running against MAGA.

SPEAKER_00 45:07

Yeah. Uh Mary Sheffield endorsed Benson last week. Um she's gonna have a coalition um that may have some of the same dynamics that played against Kamala Harris in uh 24.

Donna Givens Davidson 45:27

It's not 2024.

SPEAKER_00 45:29

It's not, and I think we we know what the deal is.

Donna Givens Davidson 45:32

Um in 2024, remember you had the Gaza War. Yes, and there was a a a heap of blame that was deserved um on people who were supporting the Gaza War. And um Kamala Harris did not distance herself from that. Now we are somehow in this weird war with Iran that Trump started and he keeps saying it's over and then it's not. Um the Strait of Hormuz, I mean, everything he says is so ridiculous. Gas prices are going up, and he's saying things like, Well, I made the best deal I could, even though it's the worst deal than Obama did, and um, because we don't want to run out of gas because we our our supplies may be depleted, and nobody wants that. And then they close the Strait of Hormuz. The one of the agreements the United States made with Iran is that they would keep Israel in check, and Israel would stop bombing Lebanon. And Israel was like, You aren't my master. I'll do what I want to do. And so Trump looks toothless in the Middle East right now. He can't stop, you know, Iran from closing the strait, and he can't stop Israel from bombing Lebanon. And, you know, so he sends J.D. Vance out, and I guess J J. D. Vance is the fall guy. And I mean, who minds watching J.D. Vance fall, right? I mean, this guy has been kind of a jerk. But I think the reality is that the dynamics in 2024 have shifted. People see who Trump is, there's no more denial, and all of those groups are gonna come together, but I don't think they're gonna be successful this year.

SPEAKER_00 47:10

Yeah, we're gonna find out uh August 4 is a primary election. You can vote um for Eric Nesbitt, John James, and or Mike Cox. Or um you could vote for uh Jocelyn or Chris Swanson. You cannot split your vote though. Um and so the Republicans that want to vote for Abdul Al-Sayed because they think he's gonna be an easier matchup than Haley Stevens against Mike Rogers. Just remember, you're gonna have to vote for either Chris Swanson or Justin Benson in that governor primary on um when what day is the general election? I should know by now it's April 6th. It's the 6th.

Donna Givens Davidson 47:52

Oh, no, you know November.

SPEAKER_00 47:53

November. Yeah.

Donna Givens Davidson 47:54

So I I want to talk about that real quickly, though, because we just saw November 4th. Yeah, I for I was four was right in one of those times. We just saw a poll come out that basically, this is the Mitchell poll. Yes, that says this Abdul El Sayyid would actually um beat um beat Rogers by a larger margin than um the his his opponents. And some people have said that that poll doesn't make any sense. They've questioned the scientific validity of that poll. Have you seen that?

SPEAKER_00 48:29

I have Steve Mitchell of Mitchell Research um talking about allegations against his polling methods. Um and he's defending himself. Uh a lot of people that I know, like Adrian Hammond, have criticized Mitchell's polling methodology.

Donna Givens Davidson 48:50

Um he says, look, I I was thirteenth in the nation in 2024. I'm not sure that's a bragging point. Like, I'm never gonna brag that I was number 13 in so it's bad as a number.

SPEAKER_00 49:01

Yeah, MERS News, um, it's a Lansing-based capital news service, told Politico uh that they did not publish this poll um in part because of pressure from Mallory McMurrow's campaign, Craig Mauger reports in the most recent Sunday Insider. Uh, that was yesterday. It's also Beth, Grant, and Melissa on that byline.

Donna Givens Davidson 49:27

But um, you know, I think it's interesting. I think that polls are scientifically invalid. Um, I think they're sort of guesswork. So you start with um how many people how voter motivation, right? So let's say I like one candidate more than the other. Do I like them well enough to show up on on um you know on voting day? How motivated am I to get this candidate? And I think that um the other aspects of that are which groups are most motivated, right? So there's times when people say, well, young people don't show up to vote. So you under-sample young people, or you say black people don't show up to vote, and you undersample black people, or you do the reverse and you make assumptions. A lot of it is guesswork about voter motivation, and that guesswork gets tested on election day. Um, the other thing is that you have finite samples. You have somebody calling 600 to 1,000 people, and um, some of us answer unknown calls, but I don't. So if you were ever trying to get my opinion, you'd never catch me on a poll. I know a whole lot of people who screen and be like, um-mm-Nope, that's not somebody I know. Um it's harder and harder to reach people back in the day when everybody had the you know ring phone, you had to pick it up and say hello, and you had caller ID, but it was just less effective. Um, right now, so easy for people to screen out phones, and then nobody has landlines. Um, some of the people who you might want to poll don't have the same phone number all year long. Sometimes it's like, this is my phone number, I have a cousin like this. Phone number keeps changing when the phone service keeps going from program to program and or you know, service to service, whatever. Um I think it's important for us to understand that no polls are really that great, in my opinion. And so they are really a bunch of people trying to predict what other people are gonna do.

SPEAKER_03 51:31

Yeah.

Donna Givens Davidson 51:32

And then based on those predictions, trying to figure out how to get opinions from those people. Um, I think that some combination of people spend more time online than they do on the phone right now. And I'm not sure how to make an online poll valid, but I believe Mitchell uses some online poll, you know, sources. I just don't know that anything works.

SPEAKER_00 51:55

You know what's better than a poll is quoting voters and hearing what people have to say. You know, these polls, while you know, scientifically valid, um, sure you can say, oh, out of you know, 500, 300, 200 sometimes voters, right? You know, I that's a small sample size out of the case. It is.

Donna Givens Davidson 52:18

And then and then again, you know, you're not saying out of so many voters. Usually you're saying out of likely voters. Right. And likely is your guess. Likely is your estimate about who is likely to vote. When you say we sampled half Democrats and half Republicans, well, the state might be 60% Democrat and 40% Republican. So if you do half and half, then you're undersampling one group. And again, voter motivation matters. Let's say I don't like Trump. I'm mad at him because of the war, I'm mad at him because of inflation, but I don't like a Democrat. Maybe I don't vote for the Democrat, I just stay home. And so, you know, you want the candidate to either be really, really, really motivated against the other side or really motive, really motivated for your side. That's the way to get people out. And most of the people doing the polling really have no clue what black people think or feel. And so there is this, you know, this um cultural ignorance that sometimes takes place. Um, so I think that, you know, they say they're scientifically valid. Their methodology may be, you know, I'm using statistically valid, you know, methods, but I don't know that the outcomes, every aspect of that has been validated. That's what I'm saying. And so, yes, talking to people matters. Um, but who are you talking to? Are you talking to the people who will talk back to you? Were you talking to your friends? Are you talking to the people who live near you? How do you access those people?

SPEAKER_00 53:45

And so that's something that I think about a lot. I right now, as we head into this um absentee ballots, are gonna be about to be head out um going out to voters. How do I, as a person with a platform, use my platform to remind people about these candidates and about these races? All these candidates are gonna be getting questionnaires from me. Don't worry, it's six questions that are not I'm not asking you a lot, but um, please get back to me. I'm gonna uh do a July um 17th or 18th, whatever week that is. I'm gonna give you guys about a month um to get back to me on this, and um I really want to have a strong um candidate guide to come out of that at the end of of next month. And so when people go to the polls, now the law is that you can actually take your phone into the polls.

Donna Givens Davidson 54:38

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 54:39

Yes, and so you can you can have it up right then. You can see what these candidates are about, see the photo of them and and um what they advocate for, who stands next to them, how they felt about Michigan politics over the last several years.

Donna Givens Davidson 54:51

So will you have a Detroit one million slate?

SPEAKER_00 54:54

No, no endorsements. Um, we're not we're not doing any endorsements. Um, please, guys, take it easy on the Detroit Free Press and News reporters, as well as me when the Detroit Free Press, News, and Michigan Chronicle do endorsements. We have absolutely nothing to do with them because we are news reporters. News reporters that work for these brands do not endorse candidates. I I don't I personally don't even care.

Donna Givens Davidson 55:18

Um I think fewer or fewer people care about endorsements of that nature.

SPEAKER_00 55:22

And it's just it's it's a good Instagram thing, and it's a good to say, oh, you know, there's free press where the news stands by me. I mean, if I'm a Democratic candidate, I don't know why you would want the news's endorsement, however.

Donna Givens Davidson 55:34

Um I mean, you know, listen, it's good to say that they put your name out. An endorsement helps to elevate your name and make it visible, but I think that we've seen the um weakness of endorsements over these past few campaigns, not just from mayor, but at every level of government. People are not listening to that. Social media is so powerful now.

SPEAKER_03 55:54

Yeah.

Donna Givens Davidson 55:55

And so a lot of it is who is in my um timeline. On my timeline. Right. Whose messages am I getting? And we live inside of these bubbles, and so breaking through, using facts is important. And I appreciate the fact that you're gonna put some facts out there. I know some other folks who are gonna put some facts out there.

SPEAKER_00 56:13

And I want to even do, you know, I'm talking with with uh some some folks about doing an event just of like a who's who, like, here's who's running for your for these state legislative races. If you live here, if you live here, if you know somebody that lives here, remind them that. Um and so yeah, I want to think about that in the future. Maybe we can do an event here. I've been thinking about um uh my friend at Source Booksellers wants to do like an election-themed event next month, and so I want to inform you all on what's going on. Um, today is Monday, June 22nd. It is five o'clock in an hour. I'm going to be at the Love Building, um, covering, you guys will see it on my Twitter thread, Justin Unwen Yu and Abe Ayash. They are candidates in the state first state senate district. Um Ayash is, of course, the um former House Majority Leader under House Speaker Joe Tate. He was once the, I mean, in the history of Michigan politics, Abe is the highest ranking Arab American official. Um, and Wen Yu is a um environmental activist turned small business um um employee for the city of Detroit. He's also taught labor law at Detroit Mercy, and he is also a young um uh can't, I think he's 30, but Abe, I think, is 31 or 32. And so Abe and Justin are both um claiming progressive credentials. Um certainly the sort of progressive left of Detroit is standing behind Abe. Um Justin does have some um progressive supporters, including the League of Conservation voters, including um representative former uh representative Andy Levin. And so it is uh becoming a contentious race between the two. Umwenu has pointed out uh Abe's lack of vocal support. Abe did not endorse Kamala Harris in 24. This is a growing dynamic playing out between black and Arab candidates all across the country.

Donna Givens Davidson 58:33

It is um if we can put 2024 to bed and run 2026 races, that would be really, really helpful. Um, it's just disgusting to me, actually, that we're using that as a litmus test. Do you support Kamala Harris? Should never be um the litmus test for why you support somebody. I think that one of the things that's happening is the growing political activism of non-black minority people in government. There used to be a time where you had a few Hispanic people in government and black people in government and Jewish people in government, Muslims were not represented, Arab people were not represented, most Asian people were not represented. I mean, Stephanie Chang is the highest-ranking Asian person in Michigan government history governmental history. And now you're seeing increasing activism. Now, in a society that is diverse and multicultural, you should want to see representation. But instead, you have this um this, you know, what is it, the the magic minority um competition going on, whose minority gets represented? And ideally, what we're doing is we're having people representing points of view and not their own um interest group, this own small narrow group, this idea that we have to only support black people and Arab people support Arab people. Um, you saw it play out in New York City and then mom dunny won in a head had uh in a landslide, but you also see that it's generational. Younger black people are less likely to um follow those norms than older black folks are. Um we are still of the mindset of, you know, we just got our power and we're not willing to share it. And I think it's time for us to move on. I'm interested in where Ayesh and Owenu stand on the issues, period. I'm interested in what their track records have been and representing those issues, period. And I'm also interested in who's supporting them and whether the people who are endorsing and supporting them are people whose interests are aligned with my own. And I'm able to look at both of them as um credible candidates with different, you know, points of view. One is not my district, but one is going to be better than the other. Who voted uncommitted and was vocally, you know, fighting for Kamala Harris is irrelevant to me. And it should be to any voter because 2024, you can't go back and relitigate that race. It's over. Um, but I think also the final thing I want to say about this is a lot of black people really do believe that people did not support Kamala Harris because she was a black woman, that she was nearly perfect in their eyes in terms of her experience and in terms of her intelligence. And, you know, she was so highly qualified that the only reason you would support Donald Trump over her is if you hate black women. I don't believe any of the people who are being accused of supporting um did not supporting Kamala Harris were actually supporting Donald Trump. Ayish was not, Abdul El-Sayed was not, Rashida Talib was not. What they have in common is that they are Arab and they went uncommitted for at least for a while.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:54

They did. Um you're gonna hear a lot about that money being spent on ads. Um, we're gonna take a short break. When we come back, we're gonna talk about what we're thankful for.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:12

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SPEAKER_00 1:02:52

Welcome back. We want to thank you all for listening to Authentically Detroit. If you have topics that you want discussed on our program, you can hit us up on our socials at Authentically Detroit on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter, or visit our website authentically-detroit.com. All right, now, time for our weekly shout-outs. Let's start with you, Donna. You have anybody to shout out? I do.

Donna Givens Davidson 1:03:14

First, I want to shout out my husband, Kevin, my son-in-law, David. Um, it's Father's Day, the day after Father's Day, and I am so thankful for these amazing men who love and take care of the young people in our family. I had an opportunity to cook for everybody. I did things the first time. I've never made potato salad before. And I've I took over the ribs, you know, and stuff like that, because that's what he said he wanted. Um, but it was really just great having family come together in love, supporting good men. And um, I'm so thankful to have those in my life as well as many others. But those are the two that are closest to me who showed up yesterday and celebrated with me. Um, I want to also just um congratulate our friend, my co-founder of Authentically Detroit, and friend forever, Orlando Bailey, for the success he has been seeing at Outlier Media. We miss him here, but he and his team won some major awards. And you mentioned one of them, but the one that's actually most significant to me, I have to pull that up. I should have had it up right now, have it here in a second, is um, hold on. Um, all the drama and drum beats is the um National Association of Black Journalists gave them the best practices award. And they will be receiving that on August 15th, the Best Practices Award. In other words, they're doing journalism better than other people and representing and and in our community. I was just so moved to see that.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:48

Yeah, Kobe uh Levin and Brianna Rice swept our SPJ, um, Metro Detroit SPJ Awards uh uh last month, winning the Young Journalist of the Year and winning the Journalist of the Year. And Kobe Levin, guys, if you guys aren't tapped in, go follow him on Instagram or TikTok or wherever you are. Um has been doing some of the best immigration reporting since Trump's presidency um began. And I think is really important work. It's really kind of like sad. A lot of the times the only information that we have is from these advocate activists who, for whatever reason, the d major journalists that work for the major publications don't want to quote. But Kobe has been doing it. I mean it's courageous journalism that he's been doing. So What with with what news with um ICE. I mean which news Outlier. Yeah, he's with Outlier, yeah. Okay. And so he has been doing a lot of I mean, he's really been championing the advocate community that is supporting and defending um undocumented Residents. And so, yeah, shout out to Orlando. Shout out to Breonna Rice, Aaron Perry.

Donna Givens Davidson 1:06:07

Um the whole team.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:09

Yeah, you guys are I admire you guys so much. Um I love Outlier. Uh I mean, even you guys doing the the trivia nights, like keep doing that.

Donna Givens Davidson 1:06:19

Oh my goodness, you can't do it to Spotlight anymore, though, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:22

Yeah, no, no more spotlight. I I did have a conversation with uh Rula. I think her last name is Rula, I think it's David. Um Rula is the owner of Spotlight. She told me um, you know, it's not financial, certainly not financial. She laughed. Uh, it is personal, she wants to be with her family.

Donna Givens Davidson 1:06:40

Um I think they took a lot of heat.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:42

They did. I mean, there were uh sexual assault that happened there that kind of created a community backlash against the response against Rula and Spotlight's response.

Donna Givens Davidson 1:06:52

But you know, I'm I in fairness to them, sexual assaults happen in places of business like that. And I've never seen any other nightclub actually come out and say, you know what, these are the steps we're taking. It gets covered up.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:10

They say it took too long, that's what the critics said.

Donna Givens Davidson 1:07:12

But have it's almost as though that's the only place sexual assault is taking place inside of nightclubs. You've heard of people being roofied and other kinds of things taking place as a woman, you know, going out and just being very careful. They came out and said something. Some of what I heard was, well, they don't let people play rap music and they are Arab in a black neighborhood. And it is some of this is also this um this mistrust and distance between Arab and black people that we're seeing playing out in our community.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:42

And I think I was a lack of will. I mean, a lot of the people that I've heard uh talk about this, I don't know if they've ever had a conversation with Rula. That's what I'm saying.

Donna Givens Davidson 1:07:52

I just feel as though we have to be very careful. There was an amazing, I was vegan for a little while, y'all.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:58

Not to say that I've had more than one conversation with Rules.

Donna Givens Davidson 1:08:00

There was a vegan restaurant on um on Mac, and when I was vegan in this short period of time, it was like the best vegan food I'd ever had. It was um from people from the Dominican Republic. And one of the sons of the owner made a um uh transphobic comment and did some really horrible harassing things. And the owner said, okay, we fired him and we apologize. And they were like, You can't fire your son, we don't trust you. He must learn that at home. And they ran that amazing business out of this uh a restaurant out of business. There's something about um the way that we have um crowd hate campaigns going on where we want to run people out of business. Spotlight served a niche in our community, and I hope somebody else picks it up. I've only been there a few times, you know. I'm not necessarily the demographic, but I've been there for um It's a wide-ranging, I mean you are honest, honestly.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:53

Like you, you really are. And I've I've seen mostly your peers be taken over Spotlight. I mean, I see every person I've ever known in Spotlight. I saw Denzel there last weekend. Denzel McCampbell. I mean, just in the morning.

Donna Givens Davidson 1:09:06

You bring you bring it's a it it was a mixing bowl, a place where you brought everybody together. And there are some people who are gonna say, you know what, that's what they get. For what? For having people who are sexual predators show up, they show up other places. Um, so my heart goes out to them. We actually gave them an award a couple years ago um for um opening an exciting place on Detroit's east side. And I stand by that. Um, they didn't sexually assault somebody, somebody else did in their presence, and I think they did the best job they knew how, and I think they were held to a standard that's not fair. And by the way, every time I've been in there, I've heard rap music. That's not true, that they don't let it play. Um, and they've had other types of music, they've had Afrobeats, they've had um LGBT night, they've done so many things to embrace multiple communities, and they deserve better than this, certainly better than people mocking them and celebrating their dismissal. So I've seen them for what they've done.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:05

I I have seen plenty of mocking and celebration.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:08

Um, but you can read on Cranes, Detroit. Um, I'm gonna put something up based on my conversation with Rula. I said, uh she's like, I haven't been in, I haven't been talking to any journalist about this. And I go, Well, you're talking to me right now. I'm Sam Robinson. She goes, Oh, I I see you in here, I know who you are. Um yeah, I it's sad for me too. I mean, shout out to Spotlight and UFO. UFO is like interesting. Spotlight, I've had some like good and bad moments there, so it's definitely an end of a of an era. I think about sort of the other venues that are going to get a bump and boost from Spotlight not existing anymore.

Donna Givens Davidson 1:10:47

Where?

SPEAKER_00 1:10:48

Oh, there's another there's another East Side music venue.

Donna Givens Davidson 1:10:53

What's that?

SPEAKER_00 1:10:55

Big Pink.

Donna Givens Davidson 1:10:56

Where's that?

SPEAKER_00 1:10:59

Where is Big Pink? I think it's on Atwater.

Donna Givens Davidson 1:11:02

Yeah, that's a completely different kind of kind of vibe. At water's a different kind of vibe than over there on the back.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:11

It is not owned by minorities, and so Yeah, well then they'll they'll get a pass.

Donna Givens Davidson 1:11:17

You know, when I when I saw Lamar Lemon say that he was not going to support Abdullah Elsa yet because the way Arabs treat white people black people, I'm like, so you're going to support he's running against two white women. We're we have more anger at other people of color when they do things than we do of um at white people, and I just think that's wrong. I mean, you shouldn't do engage in group blame anyway, but that kind of thing really just gets under my skin. Um anyway.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:46

Anyway, I want to shout out Jeremy Allen, he's my editor at Michigan Chronicle. Uh Jeremy's a great guy and a wonderful father. I want to shout out all the fathers that I know in my life. Siobhan Bradley is my best friend. He just became a father this year in January. And I think about that a lot. You know, I I don't I don't know if I'll ever be a father, but uh shout out to all the good dads out there. There's a lot of bad dads, honestly. And so I want to uplift all of the good ones. Jeremy Allen, Siobon Bradley, um, thanks for being my friends that are good dads. Shout out to all of you. And so it is Monday, June 22nd. I'm gonna head to the Love Building and go cover this um um candidate forum between Justin and Abe.

Donna Givens Davidson 1:12:42

Uh Donna, I understand that you want to go home and I I also want to thank Michael because Michael um Johnson worked over the weekend to do two really nice things. He put up um some infographics on um Juneteenth, educating our community is so important. We know what Juneteenth is. Yes. And then a really, really nice Father's Day tribute. I know it meant a lot to the fathers who got recognized. Um, they were so moved. So once again, thank you, Michael. Every time you extend yourself, especially on the weekends, because you know, we were off on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, and Michael just kept working. I appreciate that. That's beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:18

All right, guys, we want to thank you all for listening in and supporting our efforts to build a platform of authentic voices for real people in the city of Detroit. Please do like, rate, and subscribe to our podcast on all platforms. We will hear from you next week.