Have You Heard? Episode One

In the first episode of Have You Heard?, Arlyssa Heard sits down with father, mentor, coach, author, and youth advocate Jonathan Shropshire to discuss the rise in fighting, bullying, and violence in schools. 

Together, they explore how social media conflicts spill into classrooms, what's driving these behaviors, and what parents, schools, and communities can do to better support our children.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hello, hello, hello, hello, everyone, and welcome to Have You Heard? I am Arlisa Heard, uh, and I am a Detroiter and a parent and a community activist and advocate and all of the things here in the city of Detroit. And this is a podcast that is going to talk about all things revolving around education. And welcome to the first episode of Have You Heard? Um, today I just want to give you a little bit because we are uh we all know that schools are the center of our communities, and education is at the very foundation of pretty much everything that we do. It is where our children learn, we socialize, and all of these things. However, there are other things that impact um our lives in education. Not just, it's not just academics, it's not just about um matriculating through systems and getting degrees. However, there are other things that affect what happens in schools, and we want to deal with some of that today. Um I want to introduce, uh first of all, I have my uh a guest here with me, a very, very interesting, dynamic um young man here. I say young, but probably not, I shouldn't say young man. Oh, I'm young. Oh, yeah, you're young. Okay. Not an old man. 36 is young. 36 is 36 is young. But it's and it's not old, but it's not too young. It's not so you're right there in there. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:44

I got grays in my beard.

SPEAKER_01 1:45

Oh, yeah, he does you do have grays in your beard. And that's that's good though. But that's wisdom. So, but I want to um say welcome and hello to my wonderful guest here, Jonathan Shropshine. I got the name right. You won't you don't have any idea how many times I tried to practice this name and didn't get it right. I got close. I got close.

SPEAKER_00 2:08

You did a really great job.

SPEAKER_01 2:09

Oh, I still messed it up. Shropshire. Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_00 2:13

She put the shine in it. But you know, we all be shining.

SPEAKER_01 2:16

Shropshire shines. Okay, we're just gonna say that. Anyway, listen, we we're gonna get I'm gonna get this name right by the end of it. Amen. But now, um, the the interesting thing about Johnson is that, well, I'm gonna just give you all the different types. He's he's a mentor, he is uh an advocate, he is um an author that I just recently found out, and all of the things, but I don't want to mess up any more than what I already have with his name and what he does. But can you just give us a little bit about well, who you are and what you do?

SPEAKER_00 2:56

Yeah, yeah. Well, um I think the best title that I I can describe myself is a servant. I'm a servant of the people, servant of the Lord. Um, I have been working with youth since I've been 17 years old.

SPEAKER_01 3:09

17 and 36. Let me do the math on that. That's right. Oh, so maybe you are. Well, technically, you are an old man then.

SPEAKER_00 3:15

All the seven. Somebody I'm an old man. Okay, yeah. The kids think I'm old. Yeah, well, yeah. But uh, like you said, I've done a lot of things. I've been working with youth. I've been a uh I've had mentoring and tutoring programs, family programs, uh, workforce development, all the all the things, serving the youth, feeding the homeless, feeding the the community uh resources. Uh now I'm I'm really proud to to say I'm working more in the communal space and adjacent with the young people. Um but community young people are are are my heart. And I've been doing that for a very long time.

SPEAKER_01 3:51

And that and so that means that you've seen it all though. And I think and I think today, um, one of the reasons why I think you just really um can really provide some perspective on this is because um part of what we're talking about, you know, everybody talks about schools and all the things that it does and get your education. However, there are some things that is happening in our schools um and in in the city of Detroit, but not just in the city of Detroit, the state of Michigan, and even across the country. And um I think before we can get to the academics, we have to also talk about the climate of schools and what's going on behind in in the doors, outside of the doors. And so I just want to I just want to give a a couple things that I'm just wondering, have people heard about what's been going on lately? And I know we have, you know, um, I was looking something, um, looking at some, I think it comes from West Africa, this this phrase that talks about how are the children or are the children well? And that is the um the greeting. And you know, that sounds so you know, it sounds kind of cliche. Yes, the children are doing fine, but when you really think about that question, when you're talking about in terms of community and society and where we are, when you ask if the children are well, if you take a pause at that, there are so many things that come out of it. And just looking at what's happening in our schools today, we're hearing about incidents um across the city, like within the last 12 months in some of our Detroit schools where the children have um incidents of violence and bullying. Uh, there was an incident where we even had in a Detroit school a few months ago where the daughter was being bullied or the child was being bullied. And this is K-8. And um, you know, for whatever reason, leadership didn't respond right away to the mother's cries about it. So the mom gives her a knife to take the school for protection and somebody ended up getting stabbed. But not and and not just that, we're seeing fights, we're seeing teachers being jumped, we're seeing um children fighting amongst each other, the teasing and all of these things. And even though statistics show tell us that nationally now, that um there has been a decline with physical fights over the last decades or so, um, what seems to be really trending upward is like, well, they call it cyberbullying, but I'm just looking at all of the beefs and stuff that's starting on social media that spill over into the schools. And even to the degree where we see even some of the teenage takeovers and all of that, not necessarily saying that those things, it starts on social media, but looking at teenagers and people being in the streets and fights happening, I'm just asking, what is going on with the behavior? Yeah, of what does it indicate? Are we paying attention? What do you just what is your take on that? What's happening in the schools? What's what's your take? What's going on?

SPEAKER_00 6:58

Yeah, I mean, that's a great question. I got a lot of hot takes that are very unpopular. So I might get canceled after saying what I'm about to say. But I do feel like um the internet, I always say this: the internet is one of the worst things that has ever happened to our society. I think it it takes some of the worst things in our communities and it amplifies it and gives it a voice that is like a tornado that begins to wreck our communities and it normalizes abnormal behavior. So it makes people think that these behaviors are normal to fight, to to bully, to uh flash guns, and it becomes cool and it normalizes behavior that was never known to be things that we honor in our community. From the history of African Americans, um, we have never been known to glorify drugs and um and a lot of these things. So I I think that internet one is is a very powerful tool at helping um the dishonest sense that is going on in our community. Um, but two, everyone says this is the parents, this is the parents, this is the parents, and unfortunately it is the parents, but not for the same reasons that people think it is. I think people think that parents aren't showing up for their children in a way that they're supposed to. But when you really look at the average parent, um, especially from our urban lens, the average parent is exhausted. They're tired, they're overworked, they're underpaid. And then we have them show up for so many different things. We want them to be politically understanding, we want them to contribute educationally, we want them to be able to hold their own and have a life outside of being um a mom, a father, a sister, a brother, or whatever else titles that they may have, uh, a community advocate. And we we have a lot of expectations that we put on parents, but there isn't a lot of support that we offer parents at the same time. And so, what happens when a parent is over overworked, underpaid, and no support, their children are gonna reflect that their behavior is gonna reflect uh unsupported a child, uh, is gonna reflect um especially don't don't let them be starving.

SPEAKER_01 9:16

So, what do you so what so what happens in that? Because we hear, especially in the school in the schools, we hear a lot about um teachers being blamed uh because they're not managing their classrooms well, uh teachers being blamed if children are failing, parents are blamed when children are misbehaving or fights and all of these things. And I'm wondering how what is how do you heal that? Is it do children, you know, are we able to hold children accountable without sacrificing or uh criminalizing their childhood? Um, what age group, you know, do schools bear responsibility to help when we're talking about restorative practices and conflict resolution, where where does all of this kind of come together? Because we see, we see a lot. I think there are even some um, I know at one time, I don't even know if children if there are some parents are being um held legally responsible for some of the things. Of course, obviously, if a minor does something, and in some cases parents are being held legally responsible, even at one time uh parents could be ticketed or held liable in cases of truancy. But when it comes to the climate in schools, when you have all of these things, you talked about the internet, but the internet is here to stay. How do we how do we use those same tools and still be able to manage classrooms? You know, when you have kids that are being bullied, and then uh we see it all the time. I mean, I can't even turn on social media without a fight being recorded. It's almost as if recording a fight or recording um a dispute, even not just with children, even with the adults, it's almost like people would rather record rather than call intervention or stop somebody from breaking it up. So what, so like I know that you you have mentoring groups and all of that. Have there been situations where um even maybe some of your kids have experienced some things? And how do you, is there anything that you do to help them work or walk through this conflict? How do you resolve it? How do you help children to dysregulate? Who's and who's responsible for that? How much of the schools are responsible? Because it seems like everybody as adults, it seems like we all have a responsibility to respond.

SPEAKER_00 11:54

The community. We were a community. I remember growing up, you know, I'm a 1990s baby. Communities from the 90s until now is vastly different. Even growing up in church, we hate it.

SPEAKER_01 12:07

I think everybody says every generation says that.

SPEAKER_00 12:10

And that's so interesting, but I feel like we're the most disconnected in this generation than we've ever been. Really? I that's how I feel. That's what I've seen. You know, I I remember going over to this person's house, doing dinner at this person's house, people bringing their money together and their time together. We have um big family gatherings, and uh, you know, we're inviting our friends and our family. It was more, it seems like it was more communal. But I think the responsibility aspect to that question is um, you know, and I'm not advocating for this, but I'm just using this as an example about how trusting teachers were to parents. Teachers were so trusted and honored in their position that they were allowed to spank kids when I when I was a kid. Now I ain't spanking nobody's kids.

SPEAKER_01 12:57

You oh my God, do you want corporal punishment back in schools?

SPEAKER_00 13:00

Nah, I don't want it back in schools.

SPEAKER_01 13:02

No, I'm sorry, I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_00 13:03

Because I feel like these teachers aren't emotionally intelligent to be able to wield such a such a such a power.

SPEAKER_01 13:09

I don't know if that was good or not. I remember being paddled as a kid in school. And I, you know, I'm older than you. So I was a little kid in the 70s. I was a little kid in the 70s. I still well, I got a fro now, but I was I was wearing a fro then, right? Because my sisters were like 13, 13, 14 years older than me. So they were like in, you know, high school and all this. And so I remember us being paddled. Um, and I also remember a teacher throwing me up under a desk and saying, Doggy, come get your bone. And my mother lit the school up. I remember those things. And so, yeah, I didn't even, you know, I was a little kid. I don't want to, but I I I don't know. I don't know if we were if we were better. I think, but but I think I think I would say better.

SPEAKER_00 14:00

I would just say communal, right?

SPEAKER_01 14:02

Yeah, I think the support level, the levels of support was different. I think. And I and and I think um what we see now is that some areas of support is not necessarily there. It's not some people now. Let me ask you this though. Some people um we hear folks say that after COVID, things got worse. Do you do you believe that in terms of when it comes to um because I think it well educationally, but the mental health supports for our hundred percent.

SPEAKER_00 14:33

I think even in my own life, you know, they they we had a saying back then um in uh in organizations that people were waking up on 10. Usually a person as a stress level, usually a person, you know, when they wake up, the average person may wake up on four and they go to work and you know, might end the day off with a seven or something like that. People are literally waking up. I might end the day off. Just stress when you get up in the morning. Yeah, I mean, but that's what COVID did. It it's okay. We have a glimpse to see how prisoners in America are treated. You know, it it drives you manic being sick and shut in into a confined space for a long period of time, and we don't think that that level of isolation and separation from our common man does something to our psyche, we would be foolish to believe that it it didn't. And when you compound that with the education, with feeling stressed, with some people trying to get it out of the mud and some people doing illegal activities just to survive in that time. It it's a lot to it's a lot to comprehend and go through.

SPEAKER_01 15:41

Yeah, I've heard so there were things that folks were saying um in turn, I think COVID, because it set us all down at the same time, especially in the schools. Yeah, um, we really saw things. I think parents even got a glimpse of what it's like to have children inside their work with children today. And then we also teach and then and then teachers also had lives too, because they also had children. But then um it I think it showed us a lot of things, but especially in terms of mental health, uh, you know, what we've what we've heard is that it wasn't so much that children became more violent um after COVID, but it was just that the levels of trauma and the stressors that they had to deal with, um it be they were less equipped to handle. And so how do you and I and I'm I'm thinking about that because we even heard of all these different things that were happening around the country, and um that's a lot. It is, you know, people they experienced loss, there was grief, uh, people died. Um and then I know even for my own son, you know, it was he started high school during COVID, and that was a transition year for him. And it was kind of like uh everything that he had learned, it was almost like he learned nothing else once he started, because you know, you were inside of a house and trying to get your um, you know, um uh virtual, virtual learning and all that. But it but when it but but now that we're quote so-called back to normal, we have a lot of things happening in the classrooms. And so I'm just I'm just wondering, do you think this is something? What can the studs what can schools do about it? What do you think? What do you think is missing?

SPEAKER_00 17:32

Yeah, I think the teachers feel unsupported by the parents. There's no accountability, and it's it's almost impossible to hold students accountable. A lot of schools are adopting restorative methods, which is beautiful. But is it working? If you're not good at it, it's not it's not gonna work.

SPEAKER_01 17:48

Do you see it work in the in the schools that you have a set? Are they are they using all of the the steps for restorative practices? Because we hear about this and we're wondering is are they really doing it?

SPEAKER_00 18:00

Yeah, I mean they what we say rules without relationships is going to equal rebellion. And so if you don't have a relationship, restoratives are hinges on having relationships with youth. If you don't care about youth and you're teaching, you're doing a wrong practice. A lot of our teachers are so tired of caring because they've been in the system getting choked out uh administrationally that when you show up to serve a kid, you don't it's it's like your life, like you said, already starting on 10. So you it's hard for you to show up and care about a young person's beyond beyond the already frustrations of getting disrespected. You know, some of our teachers get paid pretty good now, but there was a time where teachers were fighting for good pay.

SPEAKER_01 18:42

They're still paying. That is true. It's still well. I mean, it well, I well, certain set. So uh I know a lot of times that happens in in our Detroit public school system, they're up. Yeah, the starting pay is up. Uh and a lot of times teachers leave the district and go elsewhere after they've gotten a few years in the city because of the skills or whatever they pick up, they can get hired in other settings, maybe for a little bit more money, but maybe not as many kids in the classroom. And those are just those are also some of the things too, because I uh we're seeing, you know, we talk about teachers, but when you're looking at classroom size, when you're looking at resources, yeah. Yeah, there's just not a lot of teachers there. And so I'm wondering how much of that plays into some of what we see that's in our schools where there's just so much tension.

SPEAKER_02 19:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:35

But we can't, but the schools aren't going anywhere. They're not, the internet isn't going anywhere, and teachers are still gonna teach, parents are still there, our communities are well, we where communities are still standing. And how do we start to change some of this? Because what's happening outside the school doors, I always say all the time, shows up inside the classroom. Absolutely, 100%. And then because of the internet and all these other things, what's happening on the internet and in schools can also spill over into communities. And I think we just have this cycle. But how do we, how do we change those things? Okay, welcome back to Have You Heard Everybody, where we're talking about school climbing and are have things gotten out of control? Are children more violent? I I wanted to um, I'm here with Jonathan.

SPEAKER_00 21:01

Shropshire.

SPEAKER_01 21:02

Shropshire. Listen, I've been messing up his name the whole time. But um, but I just there were some stats. You know, we were talking about the things that you're seeing and working with children and children that you mentor, and we're talking about the city of Detroit, but we all know that what's happening inside the school walls in terms of uh the violence and the bullying and all that is just not local. So I just have a couple of stats that um I wanted to just read through. So this is according to uh the CDC and stopbullying.gov. Uh approximately one in five students report being bullied at school. That's at school. Now, this is this is nationwide. And roughly about 19% of student ages, 12 to 18, reported being bullied. Now, this is during the 21 22 school year. But what's interesting about that is um Middle school students uh as of the twenty-four-twenty-five school year, we're looking at uh middle school students report the highest incidences of being bullied compared to high school students, roughly about 16 per 26.3 percent to high school students um uh 15.7 percent. And that's just what's reported. Also, I found this interesting. Female students have the reported the higher incidences than male students. Um, female students uh reports 21 percent versus 16.7 percent of male students and rural area students, and this is where sometimes we we kind of have a particular picture in our head about what this is. Rural students, 24 percent reported higher instances than city, 19, and then versus suburban 17. And in and I was thinking in the percentages with female students versus males, I wonder is that because typically male or male children may not necessarily may not be as willing to tell it as a woman would. That's just interesting. I don't know. Um, but what is what is definitely up is this whole thing. I think we said this earlier about the cyberbullying and all of the social media beefs and all of that. And specifically in Michigan, um in the 24-25 school year, roughly 10,920 bullying incidents were reported and recorded in 893 victims of violent um crimes during or vi instances of violence, I should say, during the school years. And that's not just physical fights, that could be just pretty much anything. But so, and and and then what I was also looking into is that even though they say some things may not be as high as it was 10 or 15 years ago, um, the perception is that it is, and I think that is because we see so much of this online. You mentioned earlier when we were talking about, like, you know, where is the solution to where is all of this going? Because we can't continue to allow um all of this conflict to continue on. And you mentioned something I thought was very key about relationships and how important that was and um building on relationships. And you talked about these uh restorative practices, whether or not schools are are doing and if they're being held accountable to this. Why do you think relationship building is some of the way to go in maybe even is it gonna change things, you think? Or is this how do you where you know where do we go with that? Why is that so important? Why do you think that's so important?

SPEAKER_00 25:05

I think I I believe that the the most basic need that a human has is to feel loved and understood, um, to feel valued. And that only happens in relationships. In relationships, we we can understand one another, we can instill value and empower kids to feel like they're supported and loved. I think most of the time, if you don't have a a home that you feel value, supported and loved, kids will, like you said, show up in school and their behavior will reflect not feeling any type of value, loved, or support, but a good teacher. And this has happened in many, many testimonies from friends, even my own life, that when you feel supported, when you feel valued, when you feel loved, there is a different trajectory and path that is illuminated for that kid. You know, and maybe they take that decision and maybe they sometimes sometimes they don't, but the path gets illuminated to know that they can become something greater than what they've experienced or what they're going through. And that only happens based off of relationships. Getting to know a kid and loving them beyond just the educational platform and some seeing the potential in them like what you are doing fostering that.

SPEAKER_01 26:23

Like what you are doing. I would imagine that you have built relationships with um children over the years. Um, and so it I'm sure you have instances, but describe what is it? Have you had uh children circle back to you? You've been in this game, what, 17 years? Well, for a long time. Um have you had students or other folks that you have mentored circle back to you? And what have you noticed that, you know, like changes and how that relationship um helped build them to what they are today?

SPEAKER_00 26:56

Yeah. I mean, all the time, you know, I've I've seen kids literally grow up, you know, in college and now have families of their own, which is crazy because I'm just a young man. But to be able to see that for myself is just incredible. And all the time, you know, I can be walking with my family, walking down the street, and a car will pull aside, my kids will get a little nervous, the window will roll down, and they'd be like, John, how you doing? And I'll run up to the car.

SPEAKER_01 27:21

And it's been here, like since it's okay.

SPEAKER_00 27:23

Yeah, it's just a kid being a kid. Oh, oh, okay, okay. Just them just remembering the relationship. They remember. Sometimes their families get displaced outside of the community and they have to go live somewhere else or whatever. But when we see each other, it's like they remember how they were treated. So people don't always remember what you say, but they remember how you made them feel. Yeah. And so when a kid feels like they are supported, they're value, and they're loved, the response that they give not only to you, but those that are around them, can be tremendous.

SPEAKER_01 27:54

So I think you know what, that is a very interesting point because when the children are well, when the children feel supported, what it's only up from there. It's almost like society communities win when our children are strong. I think I've heard the the what is the famous quote by Frederick Douglass that it's easier to build strong children and repair broken men. That's right. And there, I think there is um, there's a lot to be said in that. But I think sometimes um we also have heard, you know, folks growing up like children are to be seen and not heard and all of those things. But I think um, first of all, that's that's really not the way that we need to go. But especially since our children spend so much time in schools and in a building with other adults who are training them and teaching them. Um, and it's not just always about enrolling just that one child. When the child is enrolled in a school, we're talking about enrolling in their families. You talk about building the relationships and how children feel supported. Do you see um instances? And I think you may have gotten into this a little bit earlier, but do you see instances um in some of the children you work with, even with the families where the children are not necessarily the supported by the family? And maybe, and maybe it's because maybe that family is struggling. Yeah. And what is that, what has that been like that you've seen?

SPEAKER_00 29:26

Yeah, uh I just had a conversation this morning with someone. I made a phone call to see if their child was gonna come to camp. And they're like, he's living with his father. And uh, you know, they describe to me the dynamic of what's going on in the situation. And what I said to them was make sure you text your son while he's over there because he still needs his mom, and one day he's gonna grow up, and you want him to say, you know, I'm the man I am today because of the contributions that my mom has made. You know, but she was ready to be done with him because of the conflict, right? That between her and the son.

SPEAKER_01 30:04

Her and the son.

SPEAKER_00 30:05

Oh, I see where you're at. Okay. But be because how old is this child if he the child is about 12 years old. 11 and 12. 11 or 12. Yeah. That's it. He's around the age, he's he's a bigger kid, you know. But I think that people don't want to do the work. And we always in our society, we we want to escape doing the work, right? We want to escape going to work and we want to escape doing the work. Our relationships in our community cannot change unless somebody puts boots on the ground and builds real relationships, has very authentic, restorative times with kids. We don't want to do the work.

SPEAKER_01 30:46

Do you think do you think it's that we don't want to do the work or don't really know how and where to start?

SPEAKER_00 30:54

I think that when a student is ready, a teacher will appear. I think that people have given up hope on their children before they've exhausted all of their resources to help them.

SPEAKER_01 31:10

Now, what if what if when you say people have given up hope on their children? And we're talking about school culture and climate, because I think it's very important what you're saying, is because if that, I'm just rolling with what's your statement, if that is the case where maybe a family has given up hope, or in this situation where you had the the mother and the son, there's conflict there. And he's 11, 12 years old. So there, so it's that sounds like here, you're gonna have to go live with your daddy because I can't do this anymore because of whatever is happening. And that is a lot of what goes on in families where people need support. And so now this is that time. And so is it that hope is given up? It's exhaustion, or just do we just know how to support our kids? Because when that child goes back into the school system starting in August or September, yeah, what is that child going to be dealing with emotionally, mentally, physically, whatever all of that, the family dynamics bring, whatever the summer brings, how does that child now show up in a classroom with 30 or 40 other kids or 25 other kids with administrators and leaders who may or may not know what's going on? For sure. Um, you know, because and and then how does that child show up? Does he show up as a bully? Does he show up being bullied? Does he show up more violent or withdrawn? These are just some of the things you talked about relationship, but is it but um, you know, back again to the parent thing. Is this something that parents have the ability to just do by themselves? How many of us need to be included in this thing to turn some of this around?

SPEAKER_00 33:04

Yeah. I mean, I think we have to know each other very well, right? And so when we when we don't know each other very well, there's some somebody here to investigate, and they they call that CPS. When we don't know what's going on in that house and that child is behaving and is getting reports that a child is being treated wrong, now we gotta find out what's going on, right? But if the community was involved in your life and I'm seeing how you discipline your kid, I'm seeing how you're showing up for your kid. There is no accountability that we have one to or another to show how we can show up. There was a kid who we did a restorative with, and um, he mentioned something, you know, my mom gives me a spanking, but who spanks my mom when she's out of line or treats me bad? Who's spanking? But who does who who are parents accountable to? And there's no emotional equity that parents feel like they need to give their children.

SPEAKER_01 33:54

This is this is very interesting because um just some of the things that um I was also looking into is that how modeling certain behaviors in front of our children, because children are always watching. And so, um, and it's not, you know, I'm not I'm not necessarily a fan of laying everything at the parents' doorstep. I get it, um, I get it, I understand it, but I think it's just a little bit more involved in that. But uh some of our parents don't really know how to like deregulate. You know, I'm looking at, we've seen instances how parents may show up to a school, how a parent may handle conflict. Absolutely. We see families fighting, we see uh, and it's all a lie. Anybody can look, we see people crashing out at the dollar store or family dollar. Yes, for some reason, Walmart, for some reason, I don't well, uh, you know, all kinds of crazy stuff we see happening in the stores. But I'm I'm looking at how, and then we've even seen where there are even more almost deadly instances where young children are witnessing parents or all these other adults doing all these things in front of them, and then they get into a school climate, and then we expect them to do what? And so what does that mean? We've even seen, I've even seen cases where teachers have even gone online and did video and just I think revealed entirely too much information about what's wrong inside their schools. And so we've got all of these things happening and playing out before us. And um, but but I but I just have to just let you know there's a lot of times we talk about, you know, um in the schools, but our schools are also facing some real life things that are happening that I think is uh not helping towards building on some of these practices you're talking about. We're looking at we're looking at staff shortages, not just teachers, but school counselors. We're looking at um in terms of special education, there's lots of shortages there. We hear all the time about psychologists and mental health. A lot of these things are missing that could possibly be helpful and supportive to our kids. And what does that look like at the end of a school year or three years or four years and five years? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:21

I mean, this so I my crazy thought is I think that eventually the government is going to say, I will incentivize you homeschooling your child.

SPEAKER_01 36:33

Woo, you're getting in my lane now.

SPEAKER_00 36:36

I believe that that's going to come down the pipeline very, very soon.

SPEAKER_01 36:40

Um that is actually being floated right now.

SPEAKER_00 36:44

Because it's yeah, I mean, when you look at what's going on. Yeah, we're seeing that. You know, and I and I I I think in I think we're seeing kids are being suspended and pushed online learning already.

SPEAKER_01 36:55

We already said that's that's that's definitely happening.

SPEAKER_00 36:58

Everything is is shifting towards because kids are the rules and the handcuffs for what teachers can do as far as suspension and you know, home phone calls is is already getting less and less and less. Um but I think we're shifting that way. And I I'm I'm here for it. I've homeschooled my kids.

SPEAKER_01 37:16

It takes work, but I think that if that happens, parents will we're not gonna, we don't, we're we're those of us those of us who are strongly standing for um free and public schools, we definitely do not want that to happen. Realizing that some people have to have that option, but uh I am a strong believer that we just cannot turn everybody's living room into a classroom in a virtual classroom. It just we sa COVID gave us a sample of that. But anyway, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 37:48

I think I think what's what's interesting is you know, in societies around the world, it thrives on community and children being with their parents.

SPEAKER_01 37:57

And so I think that's that relationship you're talking about. We need to be out there.

SPEAKER_00 38:01

But children need an outlet outside of their parents, of course. And that's where the community comes in. So if you homeschool, you can have, you know, cohorts where kids come together, they have social interactions and learn how to What about recreation centers? Where are all the curricular activities? But I think our Mary um Mayor Sheffield is doing a really great job at promoting activities and recreational uh uh centers for children to go through in the summer. So that's on the rise. And I I say I'm here for that because I think that kids need something to do.

SPEAKER_01 38:34

They need it out there, they need to feel like what they are doing is contributing to something more greater than themselves and teams, you know, anything with teams Do you think that's gonna reduce some of the energy and maybe conflict and violence and different things that are happening in the schools?

SPEAKER_00 38:50

I think it could it can contribute when they see what is attached to to their um to that outcome, right? So if I like playing basketball and I know my behavior, my grades, and there's an incentive behind basketball, you know, maybe I I make a big incentive like every every at the end of the game, you'll you'll get a hundred dollars to be able to do X, Y, and Z. You know, I'm just throwing something out there. But if there's an incentive attached to, you know, me doing something, then maybe I might have a better chance to show up in a different space.

SPEAKER_01 39:28

Whatever happened to the old-fashioned incentives like thank you, or here, you get a nice handshake. Long are the days. That's not working no more.

SPEAKER_00 39:36

Long are the days.

SPEAKER_01 39:37

I think it's about money.

SPEAKER_00 39:38

Kids, we need money. Kids have they have too much access. Like that's not gonna work anymore. Now they see how other kids live around the world. So it's it's impossible for me to say, thank you, you've done a great job.

SPEAKER_01 39:50

Thank you, you've done a good job.

SPEAKER_00 39:51

Pat on the back when they they see kids have million-dollar businesses. And, you know, I mean, it's the spirit of comparison is very, very difficult. But I feel like if we incentivize parents and children um in more meaningful ways makes the financial burden a little bit easier on the parent, they might be able to take less hours at work and show it for the kids. They might be able to do certain things.

SPEAKER_01 40:13

Do you think so? Do you think um we need to have um organizations or qualified folks to come into classrooms and literally teach uh not just con uh conflict resolution, but relationship building skills and uh how to, you know, like um what do you call it when you're well it's relationship building, but it's also kind of almost like this peer accountability things. And even for families. Do you think schools can benefit from that kind of resource?

SPEAKER_00 40:52

Yeah, so to help us. I um I work for an organization. Shout out to the union. Um, we have a program called SWAG. It stands for students with awareness and goals. We go inside of schools during the school day because kids really don't go to after school programs anymore like they used to.

SPEAKER_01 41:07

I'm mad that you just now insert in this, but we're gonna lift this up. This okay, let's okay, yes.

SPEAKER_00 41:12

We go inside of the schools and we have programs and the teachers. And it's called SWAG. It's called SWAG, students with awareness and goals. We play games, we go through activities, we teach them healthy relationships and boundaries, and we talk to them about restorative and the feedback that we got from the kids. It's one thing to get feedback from the teachers to say you're being effective. It's another thing to exp to have a kid express how what you're teaching them is effective and how they move and how they navigate their regular relationships.

SPEAKER_02 41:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:41

It is a powerful, powerful thing about what relationships could really do because we can't control what everybody is. What age group, what is the that was high school that that I just um so me and uh shout out to uh my partner who uh has a business called Restorative Solutions, who teaches restoratives on a big level to you know schools.

SPEAKER_01 42:01

But that's part of the swag pro that's all under the swag program.

SPEAKER_00 42:04

That isn't the restorative, but the union does pay for a restorative to go and do parent trainings and uh youth trainings for a restorative.

SPEAKER_01 42:13

Is that just is that like high school, middle school?

SPEAKER_00 42:16

High school, middle school, okay. A little bit of elementary as well. Okay, yep.

SPEAKER_01 42:20

And our parents in that those kinds of programs have parents been pretty responsive. I mean, if they Definitely. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 42:26

Definitely. I think it gives people tools. You know, uh Antoine Crowder has a great saying. He says, I'm teaching hurt people that have been hurt by other people how to get along. Okay. And the very interesting thing is we all have been hurt by someone. Yeah, all of us. And we don't know how to approach those conversations. We don't even know how to exist in the same space with them, but it gives us language and it gives us tools on how to respond in situations and how to navigate tra tragic situations in a way that is progressive. And um, and we've seen it work when it's applied in the right way.

SPEAKER_01 43:01

Yeah, I like that. All right, so welcome back. Uh, have you heard we are in our uh last few minutes of uh talking here with my friend Jonathan? I'm just gonna say Jonathan S. Uh because at this point, I don't know what I might say. Uh, but I do know that uh he's shining in Shrap Shrek. Listen, we're gonna get it right. There you go. Hey, there you go. See, that's what I'm telling you. Anyway, um uh But anyway, yeah, so we've been um really just talking about uh climate and schools. We've kind of been talking about a lot of stuff. Uh but but basically I think some of the main things is you talking, you know, relationships and the importance. And you talked about this program that's currently running in schools. We need more of that. Um connecting with kids, helping them uh to get to know who they are, uh, you know, kind of emotional regulation and all of these other things, and just teaching how to um navigate conflict.

SPEAKER_02 44:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:34

Um, and some of the stuff you talked about is how uh you've seen children that it may not necessarily being supported, whether it be via the family community and all of that. But um just, you know, kind of as we wrap up, just your overall take. What is it that you want um the community to know about our children, about our schools, and what you're seeing um as you reach out to families and mentoring those children? What is it that you want to just leave folks with? What hope?

SPEAKER_00 45:06

Yeah, children are so valuable and they're so precious. They are filled with such endless potential. We can never know truly how great a child will become. Um I think they can become as great as the investments that are made in them. Um the amount of investments made in a child, they can go on and do great things around the world, and we have to start thinking a lot more macro instead of addressing situations, um just and reducing kids to their you know, negative behavior. We have to be able to see their value and their potential beyond what they are doing, love them where they are, inspire their hope, and continue to reinforce the good things.

SPEAKER_01 45:51

Yeah, yeah. I think that's well said. I um, you know, Justin, uh these things as we navigate these streets, um, I think we have to realize that not only are we raising children and families, um, and it's not and not just the traditional families, but we are training our children to be the future next set of society that continues to carry it on. And we want them to be equipped and emotionally stable and able to navigate the world despite all of the many challenges. But I just wanted folks to um, I just have some thoughts, you know. Um, as we talk about schools, and I really, really believe that schools are the center of our communities. It is where everything shows up that's happening in a kid's life. And when children are out of school, and once they graduate and move on and do whatever it is they're gonna do, they are going to be people in society that help to contribute to advance the society or to make us go backwards. What we have to also remember is as we talk about these things in our schools, and it's easy to get over into um what violence does to our communities and the different all of the disruptive behaviors and things that are happening inside the schools as well. But we have to also just remember that um bullying and school violence are not simply discipline problems. They are public health, community, and educational equity issues. And I think we see that as a result of having lack of resources and uh when we're looking at shortages in classrooms with all of the things that kids need, these are some of the um, I think the fallout that happens. But so um, and even though we can talk about what we can do to be more secure in our schools as it relates to violence and behavior, the goal should not just uh be to just create schools that are more secure. But I strongly believe that the goal should be to create schools that are more connected, uh more responsive, and more human. And I think that's what we were really talking about here today about why relationships matter in um restoring our people um to a wholeness um so that we can continue to heal. So everybody, have you heard? I want you to go to all social media platforms and like and share. And let's get let's get this moving, moving, folks. And remember the next time you hear someone say how you doing or what's going on, ask them, are the children well? Have a good one.