Welcome to the affiliate Insider Affiliate Marketing Conference with Mili and Johnson. And today I'm absolutely thrilled to have Simon Byrd, the co-founder and CEO of Revlifter, joining me. And we're going to be talking a little bit about marketing tech, the kind that supports brands to grow their customer engagement and helps affiliates to make more sales, which is kind of what everybody tunes in every week to listen to. And we often talk about affiliate recruitment, growing programs, but we seem to forget to shed light on what brands should be doing to increase engagement, conversion, and getting a little bit more margin squeeze from the partners that they're working with. So, Simon, thank you so much for joining me today on the podcast. It's really a pleasure to have you here.
SPEAKER_01Thanks very much for having me, Leanne. I'm really excited to be involved.
SPEAKER_04I want to kick off this kind of interview and ask you to start off by giving our audience a little bit of your backstory, which is kind of the first question that I ask everybody when they come on the podcast, because everybody's got an interesting story about how they got into the affiliate space. So how did you get into affiliate marketing?
SPEAKER_01Uh yeah, I well, well, um, hopefully it's interesting. But basically, I mean, I suppose when I ask that question to a lot of people often it is I kind of fell into it. And so so my personal background, you know, I moved to the UK about 18 years ago from Australia. That's where I grew up. And um, my background is very much HR, human resources, but always with a vein of kind of sales and commerciality. And when I moved to the UK about, you know, 18 years ago, I ended up deciding to kind of move into my other love, which is which is marketing, which is which I suppose is now my first love. And the long and short of it is I ended up uh when I moved to the UK working for a promotional marketing agency, and uh and they were running a business at the time called Saver Point. And what Saver Point did is it sold sort of CDs and DVDs and that kind of stuff. And the guy that was the marketing manager there said to me, Oh, uh, you know, I do all this stuff to get traffic to the website and one of those things back in 2004 was affiliate marketing, and that and that, and I was like, Well, what's what's affiliate marketing? His name is Steve's. And Steve said, Oh, yeah, it's kind of when you know we we pay out a commission to publishers in return for sales. And and I thought to myself, wow, that you know, from my perspective, that's an incredible thing to be able to say to an advertiser that you only have to pay out when a sale happens. So I quit my job two weeks later and I reached out to all the major affiliate networks at that time. And back in 2004, it was networks like DGM, it was networks like you know, the big ones were Trade Doubler and Commission Junction and AWIN, Affiliate Window, it was known back then, was one of the small ones. And so I went uh met a lot of them, and at that time Rackitan was just entering the UK market as well, and I got job offers from a number of them. So I've sort of went to them and said, Hey, I want to be your sales guy effectively. And um I got offers in particular from from affiliate window and uh and Rackitan and uh and I decided I liked the affiliate window more and that was it. So back in 2004, I became their brand sales manager at AEW. So that's how I got into affiliate marketing.
SPEAKER_04Very interesting story. And most people do gravitate in here from either like a customer support role or sales role because it is a very commercial-driven channel that you that that we work in. And I'm trying to figure out a new word because at our elevator event a couple of weeks ago, we we all decided as experts that um we don't want to call it a channel anymore. It's it's more like a metric.
SPEAKER_01Agreed.
SPEAKER_04So tell us what led you to launch Red Lifter, which is the company that you co-founded and run right now.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, great. So I was at AWIN for if I pick up from you know 2004, I was at AWIN for about three and a half years, and then Xanox bought AWIN and you know became a much bigger entity. And I decided around that time that I didn't want to be part of a bigger company. So I got approached by a company in America called Savings.com, one of the biggest people sites in America, and they said to me, you know, would I like to set up Cebu, which is their international arm? And so I spent the next seven years after that, and all the way into uh so I was there from 2010 all the way to about 20 uh 17, building out Cebu across the world. So I launched Cebu in 14 markets, and Cebu, for those who don't know who Cebu is um they pushed voucher codes and deals and offers, and I helped also the UK become a charity-focused voucher code side as well. So that was really interesting. And during that time, I suppose I saw the the rise of voucher codes because back in 2010 uh it was the end of the credit crunch, and consumers were turning to sites like cashback sites, but also voucher code sites, which I suspect might start to happen again given the recession we're entering. I know we'll talk about that, you know, later on. But basically, I'd noticed uh around that time that you know we we kind of know consumers, and this sort of leads into the engagement of Red Lifter. I kind of noticed that the main time that you and I want to uh a voucher code is typically when you go to a retailer's website, you add something to the cart and you see that voucher code box, and then consumers leave and they go to Google and they type in you know DVDs force, discount codes and stuff like that. And by the way, that's the main driver for the voucher code channel, anyway, of people looking for deals. And I thought to myself, well, you know, could can that be done better? Because there's there's a lot of question marks around, uh at least from retailers, around how incremental you know that traffic is. So I met my co-founder named Ryan at a you know, um, at around the time that I sort of left Cebu and sort of said to Ryan, you know, I've got this sort of concept where what happens if when consumers leave you know the retailer site and do that search in Google and then met with all of the different different sort of voucher code websites, you know, why are the retailers themselves having their own kind of voucher code page listing themselves? But then I thought, and I said to Ryan, but better that micro, I mean consumers are clicking on the official deal site for the for the retailer, but you know everything about them because all this has come from the retailer's website. So why don't you build a page that responds directly to what the consumer has in their colour in real time? So if I know Leanne's about to buy a pair of trainers from from Nike, I can say to you, Leanne, hey, you've got a hundred in the basket, why don't you buy a pair of socks or maybe even another pair of traders at the same time and you get a better deal. So it's kind of making discounting incremental, and that's kind of you know what you know, that was the beginning really of Revlifter back in 2017. Um but it really was one of those situations where I was sitting with Ryan in a pub in Farrington, dotting it down on a napkin, or the back of a napkin, it really was one of those. Then the business has sort of gone, you know, from there. But but I guess my foray into running my own business, because Savu wasn't my own business, I was sort of building out for a US business, was that I started to invest in other businesses. And I did that deliberately because my personal goal was by the age of 40, I wanted to sort of set up my own business. So I guess you can call yourself an entrepreneur when you've put everything on the line. And I guess to the point I said I'm Redlifter, I guess I was an entrepreneur for lack of a better term. And so I wanted to back all these businesses, and some of them have been very successful in the affiliate space. Like we give to do kind of gift code. So I was their chairman, a board member there, Bid Namic have done a great job in giving shopping feeds and many others. And so that was really my learnings to figure out how to set up my own business and also get the get the investment right. So so RevLifter, you know, over the last five years has raised nearly 10 million pounds in investment. And I guess that's the other decision you have to make, right, as an entrepreneur, is whether you try and grow organically or whether you sort of, you know, you get that money behind you to uh to help you grow.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I think I'd left to like to take you out for a cup of coffee because I'm at I'm I'm at that point too. And I think a lot of entrepreneurs in the affiliate space do get to that point where they start to think, you know, how do I actually leverage, how do I move forward? And and I'm pretty sure that that's a very interesting story, but for another podcast. So what I love about what you just told me now is that, you know, from the back of a napkin, a little bit of innovation, a lot of understanding of the industry, you've created this awesome product that can actually help brands improve incrementality, um, improve their user journey experience in a very simplistic way, which is kind of what we need in this industry because there's a lot of tech sitting on top of or next to or alongside. And we really kind of need to make all of these things gel, all of these different channels gel together. So at the end of the day, the customer is the center of the universe and you know, they have the best experience. But from an affiliate management perspective, because clearly you've got years and years and years of experience working both client side, affiliate side, and network side as well. What is so important for affiliate managers to look outside of the network or SaaS or product provider that they're using for their tracking to engage new Martech tools like yours to help innovate the performance? Because I think there's also a little bit of kind of industry laziness where we run our program in a network and we kind of sit back and go, okay, we're doing our thing. And actually there's other tools and things that should be plugged into affiliate programs, just like RevLiv did, that you know, maybe all networks haven't got yet, or you know, like what's why do you think it's important for affiliate managers to be looking at this kind of stuff?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, look ultimately I think that laziness is it happens right across the industry where you sort of go back to the same world time and time again, yeah, based on your existing relationships. And the the the role of a network, I would say, is to not only deliver the best publishers, but also, you know, keep encouraging new publishers to sort of join the industry as well. And I guess, you know, what when I've seen through RevLifter and and there are other kinds of um, you know, the the strangest thing is like Redlifter is very much a technology business. But in but I guess in the early days when we started in the utility channel, we were kind of branding ourselves as technology publishers because we're kind of always thinking of publisher on a retailer's own website. Because, you know, just to finish off a bit about what Red Lifter does, we sort of do the personalized offer space, but then we've now we're now off a personalization of offers right across the e-commerce user journey. So retailers can show the right deal to the right customer at the right time. But the interesting thing is, you know, in some ways we're actually because we get paid a commission for what we do, we're actually being a publisher on a retailer's own website, but we we don't just touch affiliate traffic, we touch the traffic for the whole of a retailer's website, and we can prove increases in order values and conversion rates. But the reason why I I mentioned all this is to your question is that affiliate managers are fast becoming a source of innovation for their businesses that affects the whole of the traffic set, not just affiliates, because it ties back into what you were saying before about the whole idea that affiliates isn't just a channel, it's a channel of channels, and it's actually a commercial model. A lot of the time we actually uh pre-installed on AWIN or Racket Sand Stag or whoever, and then the affiliate manager can just turn us on without any inspiration happening. So I think what I'm seeing is that affiliate managers, so it depends on the fabric of the organization, are now saying to their colleagues in other departments, hey, we've got this new technology or this new publisher that actually might be in the area of sustainability or whatever it may be, that will change the perception of how our company runs and change effectively the customer experience. And I'm seeing much more of that happening right now. So I think for all the affiliate managers listening in, you are in an excellent role in that you can impact the entire fabric of your organization to be able to source these cool new partners that might not be classic affiliate publishers in the industry.
SPEAKER_04Well, this is what we're kind of saying is you know, we want affiliate managers to be looking outside of what what is currently available to them because that is how they spot trends and innovation. And it really is uh it's not a reactive role. Affiliate management is not a reactive role, it's uh it's a it's a proactive role. It's about going out there and finding out what's working for you. So we spoke a little bit about what affiliate managers need to be doing and and the role that affiliate managers and or affiliate account executives, whatever your title is, because even that's difficult in our industry. We can't, you know, there's so many different names for for what it is that we do. What are some of the other big trends that you're gonna or that you are seeing already that are gonna impact performance growth in the e-commerce industry right now? Because Market Tech is one section. We're seeing a lot more development, a lot more innovation coming in. Um, you know, and that's great because that's what the industry needs. But what about kind of things like compliance and regulation and competition? Like what are you what are the trends that you're seeing there across the e-commerce space?
SPEAKER_01Uh so the three I'll touch on now are kind of first party data and sharing about data, which ties into what you're saying. Influence marketing is obviously another kind of one where I'm seeing a confluence of the industries and uh and of course the economic trends that we all part of state right now. So, yeah, so speaking initially of the first party you know data sharing. So basically the the biggest resource I think that any you know website has, a retailer website has, is that they've got their own information or their own website where they can know a lot about the consumer and what they're doing, whether it be their behavior or you know what they're clicking on or you know, what they've got in their cards and a whole bunch of other stuff. And it it always amazes me to this day is that retailers aren't really using that enough. And I think they will have to turn to that because obviously the the demise of the third arty cookie, which is happening and being enforced by all the browsers out there and all the legislation going on. Um so so I think you know, retailers leads to start getting used to trading in um in an environment where you don't know a lot about who that individual consumer is, but you get to know, but you'll start to understand, I guess, maybe the segment that they're in or the audience are in all their behavior and start to draw inference inferences on that. And my my big call out to anyone listening that's you know working for a network or that is a publisher or a network, you've all got this first-party data, right? You should all be figuring out ways to share it in a way that's anonymized to the consumer. And there are lots of different ways of doing that, but I think the industry now needs to start doing that a lot more to create better outcomes and better consumer experiences because of the rise of this, you know, this macro change. Another one is you know, speaking to influencer marketing. So I invested in an influencer marketing business called Taylor Fire. They specialise a lot in Instagram and others. What I hear in the industry is that you might have these really famous influencers like Rihanna or whoever else might be running around out there, and they often get paid a lot of money to say something on one of their social networks, but but they don't necessarily drive meaningful engagement from users. And what I keep hearing from everyone is there's sort of like this mid-tier of kind of influencers out there that perhaps aren't as famous, but they're more, perhaps more genuine, more authoritative about certain subjects. They attract a really interesting audience. And that audience, by the way, those influencers are more accustomed to getting paid on commission or CPA versus that Rihanna V wants 10, 20 grand or whatever she charges for making a post. So I think that's kind of why we're seeing that confluence of, well, perhaps an influencer is another form of publisher, and can they join the affiliate or performance marketing space? And so that's a mega trend that I don't see going away as well. But I do see an opportunity by the way of because I'm noticing it from a dealer's perspective, and I see all these influencers pushing deals and offers on TikTok or wherever they are. I do think the connection point between when that user sees the deal from that influencer and getting to the retailer's website, there's a bit of a disconnect. And I know that, you know, at least from a reverence descent, when we're working on a way to help connect that influencer in TikTok all the way to a sale, and that's what we all want in performance marketing is did that person that talked about that product that had a voucher attached to it, did that result in an actual sale? And can you attribute to that micro remote? So I think that's the bit the industry needs to figure out more so as that sort of macro trend carries on. And then I suppose the the final point in terms of mega trends that I'm seeing, of course, is the economy. I'm feeling it myself. So I'm kind of looking at my Tesco bills going, how that, how on earth is the Tesco bill going up so much that I'm kind of getting less delivered to me? And so I'm thinking to myself, well, maybe I should join like a cash and carry, like a bookers or a Costco, so I can do my sort of you know, big shop every couple of months and then do you use use Tesco as like a top-up. But that thinking is going to be happening everywhere. And I'm talking to really big brands like Den Elm and others who are, you know, that they're a bit worried that you know that people's disposable income is going to go down. Well, what we find, what I've seen by the way, is that consumers that have less disposable income they they'll they won't trade out their kind of you know weekly shops with like Domino's and others, they'll continue doing that, but they might think twice about buying something that don't they may not absolutely need. And so we're gonna see a lot more of that. And what what I think that will shape into, and we're seeing this across our client base already, that RevLifter are consumers that will only buy if there's a deal, right? And so, and that's what we saw, you know, 10 years ago with the credit crunch. We're seeing the same thing happening again. And you know, thankfully, at least at RevLift, there are always winners and losers. I think the winners are gonna be the discount sites and the you know, the voucher code sites, the cashback sites. And I think to anyone who's listening um who runs true content or is an influencer, whatever, you're gonna have to start offering deals and offers on your true content type websites versus letting the consumer, you know, find interest in the product that you're pushing and then go, yeah, I'm gonna buy it from John Lewis now, then find a discount. You're gonna do more of that upfront, I think, in a really clever way. So I think that's gonna be a massive sort of mega trend that we're gonna see over the next 24 months.
SPEAKER_04And is that something then your company is gonna look at doing to help actual publishers? Because I know that your product works for the for the advertisers, but is there a spin-off that could be created to actually help publishers to incrementally, you know, offer a simplified process?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so we're having affiliate networks come to us saying, can we help do that? Uh, you know, part of our sort of vision at Red Lifter is to help, you know, retailers uh personalise offers and deals in real time to effectively show the right deal to the right customer at the right time throughout the entire e-commerce user journey that's done in a goals-driven, responsible way. And of course, we can't ignore the fact that obviously the affiliate channel is a very important part of that user journey. And and you know, when someone types in JD Sports discount codes into Google, there aren't just you know, I'm not looking just to do one deal slot, which is the retailer's own dealers page. I want to help personalize offers across all the other Boxer code websites, or it could be something as simple as, you know, a cashback website that offers 4% off or 5% off. Why why isn't that dynamic, right? Like why can't you say, why can't you know that someone's got um an Xbox in their cards and then you dynamically change the cashback on the cashback side saying, well, we give you 1% cashback on an Xbox, but 10% on accessories or games, right? So you can kind of use cashback as a way to upsell and cross well. I I I think Red Lifter could be um a pioneer in helping all the publishers take feeds from the retailers and know what that venture is doing in a live way and personalise all their offers in that micro moment to help the retailer change their goals. And so I hope some affiliate networks have reached out uh to us asking if we can help them do that. So stay stay changed on that, but it is something that I'm getting more feedback on and I would like to be able to help in that area.
SPEAKER_04I love that, and I think that's that's a kind of in innovation that we need to see happening in this industry. How would you like to see networks and SaaS platforms improve their offerings? Because you know, they are tasked with coming up with new concepts, new development, but how easy has it been for you to actually get RevLifter into the networks? Have they been open to taking in third-party platforms? Because m my understanding of how the e-commerce industry works, different to the gaming industry where everything is in-house and customized, um, is that you're quite reliant on the major networks or the or the platform that you're using or the SaaS technology that you're using to provide you with those services. So has it been quite easy to get you know this this innovation into the kind of community as a whole?
SPEAKER_01It's been really hard, I'll be honest with you, because the uh you know, there are a couple of affiliate networks that I think are quite forward-thinking and and see themselves as a kind of like almost like building an app store where you can access 5,000 MARTSE companies out there and easily install it on your website. So there are some networks that have built that into their tracking even a few years ago. But I but I feel like because some of those networks have done that, the other networks are kind of in catch-up mode. And so I'm seeing more evidence of the other networks, you know, doing that and be more receptive to it. And I've been told by the affiliate networks that as they see their RFPs, increasingly they're seeing you know, advertisers say, Well, if I'm going to choose your network, can you accommodate third-party plugins to your stack? So I'm seeing a lot more evidence of that. When it comes to incrementality reporting, I am also speaking to affiliate networks about how they're thinking about incrementality reporting as well, which I think is a key thing to help. That's how you measure what we all do, right? Like, you know, it's as simple as if I was working with Revlifter or not, or whoever or not, you know, before and after, am I seeing a net gain versus not? You know, the hardest part about affiliate marketing is affiliate marketing is kind of always on, right? You can't say to a top, you know, top cashback, for example, can you turn off your traffic for 10% of the time so I can build a control group and work that out. But what I think that the affiliate network should do a better job at and is encouraging their retailers to start tracking lifetime value. I think that's really interesting because you know, once you start to see lifetime value, and often they say that people that shop through affiliates in the first place are probably possibly a bit more promiscuous and a little bit more edgy and more intelligent because they're going the extra mile to get a great deal. You know, maybe they're more interesting customers to you as a business, and maybe you should work harder to try and not only capture those customers that hang on to them, right? So I think I think there's a whole body of work to be done around lifetime value. And for any affiliate networks listening, please work with your publishers and your retailers to try and work that out. Because I think it'd be good to have lifetime value for the whole channel, but also ultimately per publisher as well. So wouldn't it be cool to work out, you know, if you know, by publisher, where your best customers are coming from?
SPEAKER_04See now this is well the flip side of the gaming industry because we do have all of that knowledge and we haven't done to the minutiae of you know where the players come from, what device, how it works, the whole lot. So the commercial decisions are a lot easier to make. And this has been quite interesting for me, actually, on my journey, my learning journey, because I'm seeing the convergence of these two, like gaming, which has always been ahead of everybody else and runs in a completely different way to how e-commerce does. And I think I mentioned it to you on our previous call that I'd love to take your product and actually plug it into that industry because it would be a game changer. So, you know, having that personalization and that journey hasn't been something that our industry has looked at. But on the e commerce side, it's like absolutely vital that the customer journey is so simple and and and easy to kind of get to the checkout point. So, what are some of the myths that you hear about affiliate marketing and account management that you'd like to see in our industry and and that you know, senior people and and junior people all working together can work harder to overcome because you've got years and years and years of experience. And this podcast is all about telling the stories about where we've come from and where we're going to. So what do you think some of the myth busting things are and what do you think that we need to be working harder to change about our industry?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think the main thing I think from my perspective is that that affiliates clearing the last seal is the biggest one I'd see. And and and obviously that that that just challenges the whole idea behind, you know, why have we structured the old channel into the last click? And I think that's a massive challenge, right? And and and it's really good to sort of always challenge you know that concept and while I'm changing our own model at Revlifter to say to people hey if Revlifter's on your website, you know, maybe we shouldn't get rewarded for the last click. Maybe we shouldn't be attributed at all. Maybe we should be just like considered like in an ROI with or without Revlifter are we increasing all traffic levels because a rise, you know, I always think like a rising tide you know lifts all boats. You know, so why should we not trying to like lift this is how crazy it is at the moment sometimes Revlifters set up on a retailer's website where we're always competing against another affiliate for the last click and it should not be about that at all. And in fact we often say to a retailer you know set Revlifter up for example as a soft click instead of a hard click and so we'll stand down if we sort of see um another affiliate in the journey. So I think that's the thing we it all comes down to we are sitting on a lot of information and a lot of data but there are very few insights and I think the industry needs to start creating more insights and I think there are businesses what was that business that was bought by affiliate Bindoto that does the attribution analysis? You know Mark Guller who's business um but but that's a really good example of innovation that's come through an affiliate network to start saying let's challenge this whole idea of where does an affiliate you know fit into this and is it is it just stealing the last clicks from an attribution standpoint. And I'm seeing lots of studies from other networks like you know Rackitan and CJ that are spending a lot of time talking about that customer journey and how important it is like tying back into what I just mentioned to you before about lifetime value and you know that we that as a channel we do deliver really valuable customers. So I think that's that's probably the biggest myth that we all need to work hard on on sort of busting. But I think you can only also ever do that if he lifts the conversation from the affiliate manager level all the way to the C-suite of a retailer as well, right? And and just say hey this is where because a lot you remember that sort of statement that ages ago that the ASOS CEO came out with the grubby gate sort of thing saying I remember that backlash from it and how affiliates were outraged and yet they still have an affiliate program. They do they do and it's kind of like you know but well I think what we need to be sort of where I was I was in the involved the IB for many years as well and we we're on this real quest to try and sort of reposition affiliate marketing and make it more performance learning whatever. But I'm seeing more evidence of that happening and a more appreciation of the channel. And I think as we start to embrace some of what you were saying before about you know learning from other industries like the gaming industry or dare I say it even the porn industry as well right they're they're really early innovators and that that you know they say that actually as the porn industry they even invented affiliate marketing but they've gone through these cycles themselves and what we learn from the way they've positioned things and changed things to help you know sort of demonstrate their real value and in what we offer as a as an industry.
SPEAKER_04Yeah I mean Jules Basley is uh I don't know if you knew him do that Jules yeah Jules has moved over to the gaming industry and him and I have had this conversation a lot because he he now works for Katana Media which is one of the biggest um eye gaming publishers probably in the world and yeah he's seeing the same trend so it's quite interesting uh you know us us oldies that have been in the industry as long as what we have how we're seeing all of these iterations come forward and that's why it's important for me to get you know interesting people on this podcast that newbies coming in can actually hear all of these stories about where we've come from and where we're going to and all of the iterations that have happened in affiliate marketing since. So let's talk about the future. So you look you kind of myth busted some of the stuff that we need to be looking at but let's talk about the future of affiliate and performance marketing as we face Web 3.0 because as you know there's a couple of brands that have already started building retail stores in you know I think it was Gucci and Roblox and HM had one too. So what do you think about that? Like how's that going to impact you know user journey incrementality affiliates getting on board because m my feeling is the minute that brands are there affiliates will follow.
SPEAKER_01So how how does that move forward and and what are your thoughts on web 30 I I'll be honest with you I'm I I kind of looked at the whole thing with a level of skepticism to be honest with you because I think it's but but where I think every will pan out and I think you I think you always answer the question yourself is kind of like um in a good way but I think the retailers have got to leave this first right like the retailers have got to forge their relationships with you know the metaverse or whatever's going to go on out there and the retailers have got to embrace things like probably you know cryptocurrencies and all that kind of stuff. I think once retailers do that the affiliates will follow I mean I've already seen evidence the other day I can't remember the name of the business but a new kind of cashback side has has has evolved and and instead of cashback they offer you know cryptocurrency as a reward instead of you know classic sort of cashback. Well I think all that's gonna happen but it's got to be driven by the retailers and the the the publishers will follow you know because you know I think it's as simple as that really I mean the beautiful thing about our industry is the rails have been billions right it's just a matter of how where we take it right and I think the retailers need to push that in and they'll they'll start to push it in as you know uh platforms like Google and you know Facebook and new ones we don't even know about create the opportunities and experiences that we can plug into. But it from my personal perspective I absolutely see world we live in one day where we're running around with VR headsets or we're looking at holograms and you can click on a link in in that and that'll be power plain affiliate network that will take you through to you know in this sort of weird hologram state where you can see like a shelf at a supermarket where you can pick up that product and do something with it and buy it and then affiliate that will be part of that exchange. I absolutely see that and I see publishers also playing a key role in that as well. So it's sort of yeah so that that's what I've seen happening timing wise I don't know I mean who knows I mean it's uh you know but it wouldn't surprise me in sort of five years maybe ten years time that this this will be the world we live in. But I but I think it's changing very very quickly.
SPEAKER_04Well I mean in my lifetime you know in the last 20 years we went from having a brick in our pocket as a mobile phone to a fully fledged small computer that's smaller than your pocket. So you know who knows? I think uh technology moves us fast forward. So it's going to be a very interesting time. But Simon it's been an absolute pleasure to have you on this podcast to hear some of your insights to find out more about what RevLift is doing to innovate um you know Martech and affiliate marketing and just to hear some of your stories. It's been amazing to have you on this podcast with me today.
SPEAKER_01Yeah well thank you very much for the opportunity I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_03And that's a wrap for this week's Affiliate Insider Affiliate Marketing Podcast. If you're loving what we're putting down in this series head on over to Apple iTunes and give us a five star rating and subscribe to our podcast channel so you never miss another insightful episode.
SPEAKER_00Tune in next week for more digital marketing insights and traffic driving tips, tricks and strategies to keep your digital marketing fresh and your affiliate program driving consistent sales This podcast is brought to you by AMP affiliate Instagram is an independently owned business towards sponsoring this podcast episode to showcase our exclusive affiliate management performance program. AMP is our unique program for affiliate marketing program managers. We've helped hundreds of affiliate managers across a range of brands to get the best of their affiliate partnerships and build consistent sales feed to access each semester are very limited, so don't miss out. Run at a live coaching session once per week this 12-week intensive training program is suitable for affiliate program managers at all levels. You will learn proven tactics and strategies that allow you to upskill your program or team performances, growth your sales using tried and tested strategies that have been gained from decades of experience running million dollar affiliate programs worldwide. For more information on what AMP offers or how to book your place on the next open cohort please visit affiliateinsider.com and hit the training button to find out more making a high quality podcast like this one takes a lot of work that's a fact but not when you hire a podcast company with our White Glove experience we handle everything for you from guest outreach all the way through to publishing and promotion we handle it all you show up to hold great interviews and build relationships with your guests and we take care of everything else.
SPEAKER_02Podcasting is not just about the audience every podcast interview is the start of a new relationship with a weekly podcast you'd build relationships with fifty two ideal partners or prospects through your podcast interviews over the next twelve months do you believe that fifty two new relationships would help grow your business we do. Contact Jason at a podcastcompany dot com and let's talk