Welcome to the affiliate marketing podcast with Mealy and Johnston. And today I'm super excited to welcome on board Ray Wright, the co-founder and chief revenue operations officer of UFurnish, somebody who I've got to know extremely well in the last 12 to 18 months since we we first met at a affiliate conference in London. And I've been excited to get you on this podcast because I was just blown away by your journey, your entrepreneurial journey, what led you down this path, how you entered into the affiliate space. And I really want you to tell your story today and share some of the insights and the learnings that you've had in the affiliate industry. So let me get started by asking you to say hi to our audience and to introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about your journey into affiliate marketing.
SPEAKER_04Sure, no problem. Thank you very much, Leanne. It's a pleasure to be on the podcast and to be to be talking all things affiliate marketing. Um if I if I sort of take a step back from affiliate marketing and one of the things you touched on, like being an entrepreneur, I mean, it's quite a it's quite a universally used term, right? And what does it actually mean? I still don't know, right? As a as a company founder on that side of things, I think it just means that you're interested in business, right? And uh and you go out and try and make it happen. I actually studied entrepreneurship at universities, my degree, it was my major uh at uni. So I guess I've always been fascinated with the way that businesses work and uh and all that kind of stuff, and really probably has played into the journey of ufurnish.com. I've been in marketing technology now for over 10 years since moving to the UK from Melbourne, Australia. And really my journey led me into starting ufurnish.com with my wife, which I'll talk about in a minute. But it then lent into affiliate marketing because the way that this industry works and the type of model that we operate basically sinced quite well into the affiliate industry. And actually, when we were starting the business, you know, what we probably became very aware of and what we've learned significantly over the journey is that this industry is burgeoning and there's so much opportunity, and that opportunity is predicated on different points of value dependent upon what you do in the affiliate industry. So we've tried to tap into our own niche around that. So I guess that's how we sort of ended up here, Leanne, uh in in this space and getting to know each other.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. And I love meeting other entrepreneurs who are doing innovative stuff. So talk to us a little bit about what you furnish is and the idea and the concept behind how you and your wife decided to start this business.
SPEAKER_04Absolutely, absolutely. So um, so ufurnish.com is a search and discovery platform for furniture and furnishings for the home. So for those people who are listening in the UK, if you think of a platform like Write Move, where you search for properties and you search across the market all the estate agents, we do exactly the same thing for furniture and furnishings. We bring in all the furniture retailers into one place and we allow the consumer to search right across the market and to be able to run comparisons, delve into content, help them with the decision-making process, and make it simple, make it easy for them and make it engaging. And that's that's what our platform does. The reason we created it, uh, ironically, is because we had the exact issue ourselves of trying to find furniture when my wife and I uh bought our first home together. So basically the journey that we were on was that uh we were both working in professional jobs, very busy, didn't have much time to go traipse around the shops. So we were trying to search online and we're trying to do it in our lunch break work or 15 minutes that we had. I had Deirdre, who's my wife, sending me all sorts of links to different products to look at. And it just was quite a fragmented process. So one night we had a discussion where Deirdre raised to me that there has to be an easy way to search for furniture, there has to be some kind of search website or aggregator. We realized that it really didn't exist in the industry, that nobody had created this. And what was fascinating to me is that in my uh previous company, I used to spend a lot of time in North America and in Europe. And as I traveled to these markets, I realized that the solution didn't exist in these markets. It wasn't just a UK problem, it was a universal global problem. So, really, that was the beginning of our journey. We sketched out some ideas of what we were trying to create with the consumer in mind, and then we went on that journey of building our own website. Uh, we self-funded it for the first sort of 18 months of building an MVP. And then we moved that from being an MVP into a fully fledged product. And as we grew revenues and raised investment in the business, we created what is UFurnished.com today. So that is the background in a nutshell.
SPEAKER_01The thing that I want to say here is, and this is what we're going to delve a little bit deeper into, is that it was an idea that sparked an innovation and it happened very quickly because I think UFurnish is not even two years old or two and two and a bit years old. So the fact that you've gone from an idea around your kitchen table to where you are right now, being quite a large publisher in the e-commerce world for retailers that operate in furniture. Like, talk to us about that journey. How did that work? Because I'm pretty sure there's a lot of affiliates listening to this podcast. There's also a lot of affiliate managers that listen to this podcast, and I want them to understand what goes on behind the doors of an affiliate business, because they cannot do certain types of commercial deals. You know, they they always struggle. And that's what I'm going to talk about today is just like how does that journey go from an idea, a concept, an MVP around your kitchen table to where you are now with, you know, the level of stuff that you have, the technology solutions that you've got in place, all of that stuff. Like, talk about it.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah. It's a great question, actually. I mean, it things organically evolve, right? And you just need to have a vision of what you're creating. And then the answers start to present themselves along the way. So, what I mean by that is to your point, we were around a kitchen table. Uh, you know, we were jotting down ideas of, you know, what was the problem that we experienced? And then what we wanted to do was validate that, first of all, Leanne. So we jotted down those ideas. We contacted friends all over the UK and friends in the US as well, and we organized focus groups. So we ran these focus group sessions about an hour at a time, and we asked a series of questions. And what happened was that the answers that were coming back to us basically validated that the problem that we were trying to solve for the consumer wasn't just some feelings that we had. It was actually feelings that other people had. They felt frustrated, they felt like they couldn't find products, they felt a bit overwhelmed by the current experience, you know, using platforms like Google and the like. So that really for us was the first sort of stage of qualification. The next stage of qualification was saying, could we create technology that would support this and how would we do it? So we had to go through an evolution of understanding what tech needed to be used and what tech partners we could work with to help us get moving and then growing a team around that. And probably the third element that has been really fascinating, but it has really helped us focus on how we add value is signing up retailers to our platform, going out initially with what was a concept, a wireframe, and getting retailers engaged in what we were doing, and then building the relationships from there. And we've built some really strong relationships with, you know, well-regarded businesses across the market, from made.com to Dunelm to Heels and the like. And actually, you learn a lot from the retailers. So they will openly tell you what their frustrations are and where they are trying to find opportunities and what their business objectives are. So what we try and do is we try and look for the synergies in the consumer journey to say, well, where can we add value on both sides? Because it's a two-sided thing, right? It needs to work for the consumer and it needs to generate business for the retailer. And that's how we've done it, the end. It's just trying to listen and then innovate around the learnings that we've taken from the journey.
SPEAKER_01Okay, but it also, I mean, so two years is not a long time. Okay, you're still pretty much in the startup phase. But how did you move forward to get the kind of resources and the funding and the stuff that you needed in order to get to where you are today? Because it that that journey happened really quick. So, what sort of how did you begin that journey? How did you think, you know, once you'd qualified and quantified and spoken to all of these publishers and and brands and people and focus groups, you knew you were going to need to get some some money from somewhere and you had self-funded it all of this way. So where where does somebody start if they want to go on that journey?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah. So I think there are a few things actually. So the first thing that we wanted to do was we were very eager to have the MVP and a working prototype of our platform to evidence the fact that you could put website traffic onto it, you could track consumer journeys, you could see touch points, you could have retailers interacting with it, and that people would move through the funnel and actually go and transact with retailers. So we had a working model, right, as a base point. So what we did was we developed a proposition around that that we could take to the investment market because what we realized was that we needed capital in order to be able to build this technology at scale and to be able to drive our brand forward. So we we did that. We built out a pitch deck, we built out a business model, and then we took that to the investment market. Our first step was to focus on angel investment. And for those people in the UK, uh angel investment is significant, and there is a lot of tax breaks and supports that government offers uh to people who are interested in investing in early stage businesses. And there are a number of people who are active in that space. So we just found a way of tapping into that kind of community and meeting those types of people who we had probably come across on the journey in our careers in some respects, but we found that that journey gained momentum for us. There are other ways of raising investment as well. There's raising from the crowd, there are seed investment funds and organizations who can support. So it's about developing your own way forward. But we took the value prop to these angel investors, talked to them about the proposition of what we were trying to do and how they could support. And what was really interesting was that every single time we took it to an investor, they played it back in relation to their own home scenarios. So we felt that if we could actually articulate the problem and they identified with it, we'd probably be likely to get them invest, which is probably why we've got quite a few females on our cap table, because the problem is probably felt more by females than it is by males. So it's about just articulating the problem. And if people resonate with it, they'll invest. Our focus within that process, though, was to be very clear about the ask. Because what investors want to see is they want to see how do you progress against your ask. So what are you focused on? Are you delivering on your promise or are you just flittering the money away? So we were very clear around we were building the technology in-house, we were building a team, we were scaling our brand, and we're improving our business model, and we would stage that because we realized that actually it would take significant investment to build a business like this and effectively disrupt in the industry. So those are the principal things, Leanne, that we focused on in the early stages of the business.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And I love the fact that you've given away a lot of different uh angles as well for how affiliates can move forward with you know angels, seed, crowdfunding. Are there any things that people need to know about those different avenues, like initial avenues, like pros and cons, maybe?
SPEAKER_04There are. There are. The first thing that people need to know or be clear about is do you actually need that funding or that investment? So it's not for everybody. And uh and some people like to build businesses that they bootstrap, and maybe it's more of a lifestyle business, or maybe they feel that that fits better with them. So I think it's really important that people are cognizant of that fact because when you start raising investment, obviously, you know, you'd be a shareholder in your own business. Hopefully, you've managed it in the right way and you're a majority shareholder in your business, so you can still maintain control and make decisions. But there are these things to be mindful of is because you have accountability to people through that process once you start raising investment. So for us, it was very important to go out and establish that. So my advice to people is answer that question yourself first of all before you go out and raise investment. What am I doing it for? And am I prepared to go on that journey and what that might mean? And if you've answered it and said, yes, and I need the investment because my objectives are X, Y, and Z, then you're in the right place. From there, it's really a case of just making sure that you're tapping into the support functions that are there. So I'd advise people to get out and actually speak to people who have raised money before. So look within your own network or within the affiliate network, reach out to people on platforms like LinkedIn who you know to be successful entrepreneurs or people that had raised money and ask them for a bit of time. We did it, and we have been amazed at how supportive the entrepreneurial and affiliate communities have been in terms of offering time and feedback and advice and making introductions and and helping you get the ball rolling. So you've always got places you can go and people you can speak to, and I'd advise on tapping into that. Some of the supports that are available, I'll just touch on one because I could spend all day talking about these things, but there is a significant program here in the UK which is called SEIS and EIS. So SEIS is around raising very early stage seed investment. It's up to about £150,000 that you can raise. And EIS is up to about £12 million in investment that you can raise. What it means is that you register for these, so you qualify for them as a startup business. HMRC approves you on that side of things, and then you can go to investors and you can offer them the ability to invest under SEIS or EIS. And what that gives them is tax breaks. And I won't go into the specifics of it, but they're very favorable tax breaks to investors, and investors like it, and they'd be very, very first on it if they're regular investors in early stage businesses. But those tax breaks give those investors minimal downside. So the the idea behind it is it's trying to stimulate the economy to help startups get off the ground because the government understands that capital is at a premium for early stage businesses. So you can take that as part of your value proposition to the investors to paint division about where you're going and also let them know that, okay, any investment is capital at risk, but there is a lot of upside to that capital at risk, and the downside isn't as bad as they might think. And it's important that you tap into that because I think education is key when you're raising investment and building relationships.
SPEAKER_01See, now I love this conversation because I know that affiliate account managers or junior account managers at networks, at brands, whatever, they're not really seeing affiliates this way, like you know, bodified business entrepreneurs. They're just seeing them as a website or a a channel or a you know, Instagram account or whatever the case may be. But this paints a very clear picture as to what affiliates are navigating on the flip side of actually driving the traffic to the brands. Um, this is like serious business. You know, we've got to the point in our industry, and I know you and I are going to talk on this a little bit later, but this is serious business now. You know, like affiliates are in it, they're not, it's not just a quick buck anymore. It's actually about building a proposition, about adding value, about engaging audiences, about, you know, filling a gap in the marketplace or solving a solution in the marketplace as you are doing. And there's a lot of work that goes on behind the scenes, and there's a lot of people that need to be paid and you know, salaries that need to be, you know, generated. And so I want to bring that to the full because when I hear affiliate manager saying, oh, you know, traffic is too expensive, do you understand what goes into behind all of that traffic that's magically coming to your website? I don't think you do. So I'm really happy that you that you're being so willing to share that you know what's happened and how quickly you've made this business come to life and you know the the trials and and not tribulations as such, but I'm sure they have been. But, you know, the the kind of work and effort that goes into actually building a business of this nature. We've spoken about your journey, we've spoken about how quickly it's happened, we've spoken about why it's happened and it's come from innovation. I want to talk a little bit about your experience as an as a newbie into the affiliate space and what your experience of working with different brands has been and where there have been some downsides and maybe an objective view of what could maybe start being improved in this industry.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. It's been quite fascinating, actually, having come from marketing technology and SaaS sales. You know, the my career prior to this was all about working with businesses to demonstrate value and to understand problems and then show them how your software solution could solve those problems. And that was quite easy to articulate if people were open to sharing. And if they weren't, then you probably couldn't arrive at a junction where you could add value. And I've probably found the same thing coming into the affiliate industry. What I was quite taken back by at the beginning was companies' willing willingness to share information and then looking for results, right, without context of why they're looking for results or what they're prepared to invest to where they're prepared to go. Now, what's happened over the journey, Lee and we have the majority of our partners, is that we've built great relationships, we understand their business objectives, and now we can go and we could sit down and have value-additive conversations where we can pitch them solutions and we can pitch them opportunities, and we're doing it because we know that it will actually deliver results for them and help their businesses grow. But stopping short of that, like not getting that information, made it challenging. And at first, I think people looked at us and said, Well, who are these guys and what are they about and that kind of thing? And I don't know them. And people would say things like, Oh, your domain authority is small, or um, you know, I haven't heard of you guys before, and and I invest in other things. And that and and maybe that's fair, but probably my ask if the industry would be to say, let's get on the page when it comes to context around context around the affiliate and who they are, what they offer, and context around your business to find alignment so that you're not turning a blind eye to opportunities. And I think that's where the that's where the industry can level up in in that space.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I totally agree. I mean, so many times I see programs when when they're brought to us, because as you know, we're an agency as well, there is, you know, they top heavy in certain types of affiliates. There's a lack of understanding that there needs to be, you know, a channel of different partner types in order to get you from the top of the funnel to the bottom of the funnel. And essentially that's just legacy-lazy affiliate account management. You know, it's about relying heavily relying on the partners that you know can deliver value and squeezing those partners harder in order to meet targets instead of going out and finding net new. And and I guess there's also, and not to kind of like bash affiliate account managers because that's not what we're here for, but there is also the trade-off on the brand side and or agency side, depending on on who's managing your program, in terms of where do I spend my time, because I can't manage a thousand affiliates, you know, effectively. But I think in that process, and because there's this old way of doing things that that isn't changing or not changing fast enough, we're missing out on these types of opportunities. Because I'm sure as X, if I was a brand two years ago when you came, you know, when you came to me and said, this is what I'm building, if my account management team didn't listen, they'd be sorry now. You know, less than two years later, look at the volumes that you guys are doing and and the value that you're adding in that customer bio journey. And they would have missed out simply because they were too busy to have a conversation. And I relationship building still very much leads this industry. But relationship building is more than going out for a beer at the pub.
SPEAKER_04It is. It is. I mean, ultimately, we're all here to deliver results for whoever we're beholden to. So, you know, we're beholden to the advertisers and the agencies that we work with, then they're beholden to the people that we work with, or beholden to someone else who runs that organization or shareholders. And so there's a there's a virtuous circle of that kind of stuff. I think the thing about it is, you know, we try to look at it from like the glasses half full perspective. We work with a number of account managers, the affiliate networks, uh agencies who are highly engaged and who have built strong relationships with us and allowed us to actually build strong relationships with the brands directly and work with them collaboratively. And those relationships are flying. Like they're they're going super, super well. And they're a really good barometer of how success can be achieved. And we all feel like we're on the same page. And it also leans into look, not everything's going to be great news. And Jesus, like if I had a dollar for every time that I heard someone say, Oh, I invested in this campaign with such and such or whoever, and it didn't work, and now I've got no confidence in the industry, it's like, well, I don't think that's a good proxy. You know, I think that there's this sharing and there's openness and there's success and there's failure, and then there are learnings off the back of it, and then there's a commitment to growing the relationship and working through those learnings. So I think if you're invested in the relationship, you can make it work, you know, and and you just have to accept the journey that that will go on. And and yeah, it's improving. It's definitely improving for us. But there are there's still a little way to go, you know. And I I think there's still a bit of evolution and learning for people to go on with that journey.
SPEAKER_01But I think you're right as well, because there seems to be, I mean, you know, I've been in the industry 20 years and there has always been a them and us. And actually it cannot be because we're supposed to be working collaboratively together. And there's also a disparity or a friction point around data sharing, which I think you mentioned a little bit earlier before. If we shared more data with our partners and and, you know, affiliates, influencers, whoever it is that you're working with, we'd actually be able to extract more value. But because there's always this, oh, I need to keep my data private and sensitive. And and I'm not talking about personal data, I'm not talking about customer names and IDs and all of that kind of stuff. I'm talking about where's the value coming from. Then I think we'd have a more collaborative space to work in. And I'm just waiting to see when this is finally going to happen because it's it's been like this forever. So when we're actually gonna change it and when are you networks gonna open up and show lifetime value reporting and some Some platforms do, but some platforms don't. They don't track that way. They don't actually have reporting and data analysis built into their platforms that way. So we're still struggling to actually understand insight. It's not we've got a lot of data, but there's no insights that are built on top of that data.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I think the so I think the challenge actually falls back onto the advertisers themselves. And the reason being is that if you look at affiliate marketing, given what affiliate marketing is, right? Everything from content to influences you've touched on to voucher and cashback, there are there are so many different uh connotations to what affiliate actually is. But when you look at that in in light of the marketing mix, and then you realize that a lot of brands actually bundle affiliate into, oh, and here's affiliate and we shard it up over there, but then they'll put things like Google and Facebook and Pinterest and other various platforms in a different basket managed by a different team, and then you've got PR and brand and all sorts of stuff over here. They cut investment in different ways, but they don't look at the attribution model. And ultimately, I think where the conversation needs to go is to say, what is what are the right investments for a brand, right? And what does the mix need to look like in order for efficiency to be achieved? And it's a broader conversation just talking to an affiliate manager. Because an affiliate, the ask of an affiliate manager within a brand might be, I just need results right now. I just need conversions right now. And if someone comes to me and says, I need conversions right now, I can offer them some opportunities. But I can't, I mean, I offer more than that, right? And a lot of affiliates do. And they might gravitate towards a voucher code site just so they can hit people straight away and get results. But the challenge on it is how do you build sustainable business that means you don't need to throw out the baby in the bathwater every single time? You just want to drive sales. It's like, how can you build something that incrementally grows? And I think that's incumbent upon the brands to say, what does this mean in our mix of investment? And maybe we do need to look at value from other channels. But there's that old bit that always relates to IBM where it's like, you know, no, whatever got in trouble for buying IBM, I think is how the saying sort of went. And I think it could be the same when it comes to some of the bigger, let's call them ad tech platforms that are out there these days, that people sit in their safe space, but their safe space doesn't mean they're getting the right outcomes. And that's the conversation we're going to drive.
SPEAKER_01But you see, that's where I think an agency adds value because an agency is a good agency should be tech agnostic. And they should be recruiting both within the network of the the available publishers that are there, especially for a startup brand, but they should also be recruiting outside of the network. And if they're not, they're not doing your program justice. And I think that's sometimes where smaller brands probably lose out because they're either self-managing and they don't have the resources to do that, or they're not thinking about how they can leverage agencies to come in and help with certain pieces of their program management. Because an agency doesn't have to do everything. We we certainly have clients where we only do the uh the outreach and the onboarding, or we or we do the incrementality, or we do certain regions, or you know, we we cut and splice how we support our clients in many, many different ways. So I think we've touched on incrementality now, which was kind of the next question, but you kind of you got ahead of me there. But I think you're right. I think that there's a lot of improvement that needs to still happen in the relationship side of managing partnerships as part of the entire digital mix.
SPEAKER_04There actually, there's something on that, Leanne. Uh just a quick one, like just as a bit of context, if this helps affiliate managers out there. I I've had numerous conversations over the journey with people who will come to me and say, um, so I've got this opportunity with this uh with this advertiser, and it fits really well with what you do. And it does, like 100%, right? And we love that, and that's great. But then they I talked about, okay, well, let's talk commercials. And they're like, well, they're only prepared to work on a CPA with you, and what they want to do is give you their content calendar, and then what they'll do is they'll give you an extra two percentage points of commission if you run the content calendar for them. And I I go, okay, I get all that. But the the challenge here for me is I've got companies that are investing significant money with us for prime advertising placements and promoting their brand and running different activities, and they're investing. It's like if you think that the CPA element is the thing that's going to get an affiliate over the line, you're probably wrong, right? Because it's out of the affiliate's control in terms of what conversions really look like in a last click world. But take a step back from that. If you're going out and you're selling to a brand, we'll work with you, no upfront money, and what we'll do is we'll work on commission through this network and we're gonna drive you incremental results and that kind of thing, you're you're misselling. You are absolutely misselling your value to that brand in the first place. Because if that brand thinks that all of a sudden the world's gonna change because they offered someone 5% or 10% commission, that is a huge misnomer. But you but you've gotta you've gotta be realistic with what that is. And you know, the reality is like how much value can you add? You know, if you come in, you're not adding much value to a publisher, you know, we've got to make money too on that side of things. So so there's that there's that element of things that I think affiliate managers, account managers need to be really, really mindful of that when they're thinking about how they can actually go and grow a publisher network and deliver actual results for a brand.
SPEAKER_01Certainly, and I think that's a very good point. I mean, I'm I'm loving the fact that you're being so frank and honest because it I think we need to hear fresh perspectives coming into this industry from different channels that you know some of the stuff that we do here is broken and we need to fix it. But how? And who who takes ownership of it? And I think it's every affiliate manager's duty to change the way that they do things and to move with the times. And if you're not doing that, you're not actually doing your your program or your business or yourself any justice. Because this is an industry that continues to evolve, and it is an industry where you yourself need to invest in your learning. Otherwise, you will never be the best at what you're trying to do and what you're trying to be. So, talking about the future of brand and partnership marketing developing as we face Web 3.0, because I'm kind of asking everybody this question to get a real big broad view of what's happening in the world at the moment. What do you think is going to happen as we move into kind of the metaverse?
SPEAKER_04Well, I think you're scaring people with Web 3.0, Leanne. So what what do I think? It'll take time. So when you look at it, so when you look at Web 2.0, like it took 10 years to get from Web 1.0 to Web 2.0. And and that's an evolution. And that that isn't how that hasn't even fully evolved, right? So when you think about that next iteration, it's it's a big jump forward, right? It's a big jump forward, and people will adopt it over time. And you just look at that adopter sort of scale on it. I think the thing that it will change, and and I like where this is going, is I think it will drive much more personalization and better user experiences for buyers, for consumers in market. And I think there's this huge value in that, right? It's immersive experience. I mean, it's what we're all about, and it's what journey that we're on at leveraging data to be able to drive better user experiences. And I think Web 3.0 opens the door to that and it encourages innovation in the space so that people will naturally step into the space and then we'll think more broadly uh without limitation. So I think that's the big impact. The question for us is gonna be how fast do we move in that direction? I know there are a lot of people operating in that sort of space through various guises at the moment, but it's it's gonna be a case of how quickly do we actually move into that space and what does the adoption rate look like, but yeah, it looks like there's some infinite stuff in there that that's ahead of us.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And I mean I l I've you know, I've been in the industry since Web 1.0 and it has been a wild ride. So I can only imagine what the next 10 years are gonna look like, and then I'll be tapping out because I'm gonna retire one day. But I think it's gonna be a rough, you know, it's gonna be an interesting ride, especially in terms of how the next generation are are engaging with online and what they expect and what they want delivered to them as a consumer proposition as well. So I think there's a lot of food for thought out there for brands to actually start thinking about how do they move forward into the next iteration. It's interesting to see how everybody's viewing this.
SPEAKER_04There's always one thing that I was taught very early on at university, which is your biggest competitor in business is actually always going to be the government. And, you know, probably the thing that people aren't thinking about or maybe not considering as much is what role is the government going to play in the the adaptation or the iteration of Web 3.0? And will they want tighter controls over it? Will they not? Do they understand it fully? I think the sort of digital evolution that we've been on over the last 20 years, that government's policies probably haven't adapted as quickly to that as as maybe you would expect, but they seem to be more in tune with where it's going. So, you know, how limiting or not limiting will that be? And I think people operating in the space would probably want to keep a close eye on what role is government gonna have in the way that Web 3.0 evolves. But again, let's see. Let's see how they move.
SPEAKER_01Well, that doesn't surprise me because as an industry that's growing double digits year on year and has not shown any signs of slowing, you know, I think there's gonna they're gonna want to come in and regulate and start talking about taxation and you know how things should be done and best practices. And and whilst we have self-regulated ourselves, there is probably gonna be a bigger worldwide, you know, assimilation of how how does video marketing work everywhere? Because already there's disparity in terms of how it works in the States compared to how it works here. So I think that's that's super interesting. But the whole journey of UFinish is super interesting, which is why I wanted to get you on the podcast. And it's been an absolute pleasure to have you on here with me today, sharing this journey. I know we spoke probably at the very beginning when you I mean, going back to the first conversation that we had on the telephone, and I just I was blown away by you know what you were doing back then, and and I'll continue to be in awe of you right now. So thank you so much for being on the podcast and for sharing your journey and for talking about affiliate marketing as you're seeing it as a a newcomer into this space.
SPEAKER_04You're more than welcome, Leanne. Thank you so much for having me. It's always uh always a pleasure.
SPEAKER_03And that's a wrap for this week's Affiliate Insider Affiliate Marketing Podcast. If you're loving what we're putting down in this series, head on over to Apple iTunes and give us a five-star rating and subscribe to our podcast channel so you never miss another insightful episode. Tune in next week for more digital marketing insights and traffic driving tips, tricks, and strategies to keep your digital marketing fresh and your affiliate program driving consistent sales.
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