Welcome to this week's episode of the Affiliate Insider Affiliate Marketing Podcast. And you are joining me, Leanne Johnston, your host, who hopefully you've been listening to for a few weeks by now. But if you haven't, welcome to the show. This will be your first introduction to all things affiliate marketing. And today I'm super excited to have Ellie Hooper, who is the account director at the GOAT Agency, who I was fortunate enough to meet because she was literally going to save me in a bind and come and speak at our recent Elevate Summit. And we just got chatting about influencer marketing and affiliate marketing. And I thought it would be great to invite her onto the podcast show today. So, Ellie, it's a pleasure to have you here. Thank you so much for making the time to be on the pod with me.
SPEAKER_04Leon, thank you so much for having me. Really excited to discuss all things influencer affiliates. It it feels like it's my absolute passion. You've already you've already framed it by saying free-flow this conversation. And yeah, unfortunately, that seems like a real excuse to do that. So yeah, really excited. Fantastic.
SPEAKER_01So let's start at the beginning. Let's start about how you landed up at GOAT working with the brands that you do work in, and you can mention some of those brands if you like, to promote influencer marketing. Let's start at the beginning of your journey.
SPEAKER_04Oh, the beginning. Oh god, I'm old now. But way back when I've always been in kind of social, but I actually started off my career in an agency in Paris working on editorial and SEO, uh, primarily for kind of like uh L'Oreal was a big client of mine, and we did a lot there. And I found it really interesting. So started off that career in SEO, ended up writing SEO articles for these luxury screen care brands, and thought, hey, there's really something to this, but we can go more. So I then moved to a paid media agency. We specialized in sports marketing. It was fantastic. I loved sports, I love all things sports marketing, we've got whatever channel that might be, whether we're looking for paid influence or whatever. An awesome place to be because that's really where communities lie. It is don't see anything like it outside of sports. So loved working there and loved, had a real kind of performance mindset. Every penny that goes in provides something out, but sort of felt that there was something just kind of lacking in terms of that creative peer-to-peer recommendation space, and that although paid media has an unbelievable kind of reach and it drives these fantastic results, it feels like there could be something that built on top of that. So got really interested when I was working with Loreus, yes, the World Sports Awards, where we got big kind of sporting names involved to back certain kind of sporting moments, and we made this big campaign around a kind of public vote to decide on a sporting moment. And really, it was at that point that I understood what individuals could do on social alongside the pay media elements side of things. So I've known about GOAT for years, and it was sort of a dream agency. I was desperate to work there. If you haven't seen it, go check out their vlogs. We've done daily vlogs for like 400 days. We've, you know, picked them back up again. Now we're all in an office, and they're super entertaining, really engaging. Great watch if you haven't seen them. It ultimately seemed like a fantastic place to work, really full of like young social natives who just wanted to be super creative, doing some awesome stuff with some huge brands, but obviously really driven by influences. So, you know, landed myself that dream job at Go.
SPEAKER_01And it's And how did you land that job? Like, what did you actually do to go and get it? Did you just Facebook stalk them for weeks or I think I watched every single vlog?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, good. So everyone I interviewed with, I felt like I knew. It was very odd. Starstruck, you might say. God, I hope if they listen to this, they'll just think I'm such a weirdo now, but hey.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, they regret that.
SPEAKER_04But yeah, no, I'd started actually, yeah, it was actually a very rigorous process. Goat has this unbelievable culture. So although you might know everything that you're speaking about, you need to be really driven, super motivated, want to be innovative, and it's it's employing people like that who want to keep pushing boundaries that that make us who we are. And you'll you'll find the same. Everyone who works in social parties saying no one can be resting on their laurels. No, no one's doing the same campaign now that they did six months ago. We can't platforms are changing, tastes are changing, trends are changing, culture's changing. Like it's got to be a place where we we keep innovating. So I don't know, maybe showed the showed a spark of that in the interview. But I think having a wider kind of digital background was quite helpful. I I knew nothing really about influencers when I first started, other than that I followed them. And the ones that I did are the ones that I trusted with recommendation. Yeah. And then ultimately that's our sell. Like if a brand tells me to buy something, I'll be like, oh, that's interesting, but I'm not going to trust them to buy it. If my mum tells me that she's found this great product and she wants to buy it and she thinks it's great, I'll buy it. I'm 10 times more likely to go at least check it out than I would if that brand told me to. And so it's a similar, I guess, link to affiliates. The whole reason affiliates works is because you're talking to your community, people that trust you and who want to be influenced by what you're promoting.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, no, no, no, absolutely. I mean, that okay, so so we we heard your journey to get in, but what I I mean, what we're here to talk about today is the convergence between affiliate marketing, which you've now literally just touched on, and influences, and how affiliates are becoming influencers and how influencers are becoming affiliates. So talk to me a little bit about your experience with this because you're actually really at the nib of it, at you know, in between the two. And and I know that you work across a lot of like really cool brands as well. So talk to us about what you think some of the key differences are between content curators, which is kind of what we use to talk about influencers, and the challenge that you know affiliate managers currently have and and how they can overcome them in working with these influencers, content curators. And, you know, we've got so many terms in our industry, but where where do you see that convergence happening and and where do you see some of the challenges that we're currently being faced as this convergence takes place?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and I I think it's really interesting. And I think just to frame it, firstly, looking at how we probably all got started in digital or social media marketing, it's one blanket turn for what we can do on social. And I think actually now we're becoming a lot more sophisticated, not only obviously having very, very different approaches to our content on different platforms, but also the way that we drive performance on different platforms. Yes. For instance, now TikTok has finally changed their method of attribution, which makes affiliates a massive deal then. But actually, before that, and you know, they're still in that beta phase of changing that that attribution process, but before that, TikTok was bloody amazing for awareness. Absolutely. Not much we can do past that. So affiliate doesn't sit super well there.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04So I think in terms of that convergence and how they all work, I mean, I guess historically, affiliates has probably been slightly smaller creators. Yeah. And as you say, we've got so many terms, so I'm bound to stumble on this. Yeah, but yeah, I think ultimately they're always a bit smaller, and influencers do the kind of heavy lifting at the awareness side of things. Topic channel. Exactly. But actually, I think the more that we're finding it, and like a big thing that we talk about at Go is that 80% of influencers, content creators, affiliates, however you want to talk call them, don't work. And the reason being it's just because brands are just using those vanity metrics of you know, you've got a million followers, perfect, you're bound to win. Our founders have this like very well-known story at Go as to how we even got started. Share that story, share that story now. I'm gonna have to I'm gonna have to avoid names because I actually can't fully remember them. But in the past, our our founders worked in a different agency, and again, that was sports related. Yeah. I think they were looking to drive traffic to site or down or something like that. Something which was a slightly lower, more lower funnel metric. They paid this huge footballer lots of money. You know, we're talking like Ronaldo level, like loads of money to promote this, and they saw no traffic, they saw absolutely nothing come from it. Yeah, so they were like, crap, what are we gonna do? And one of them knew a small Twitter influencer, I say influencer, but far, far smaller. We're talking 10, 20k, and actually found that they drove far more traffic, particularly when we're looking at cost per's, like the value for money of what they drove than what actually this huge influencer who has this massive name who everybody knows, this way smaller Twitter profile in the small time that they were live drove significantly more traffic. And it's at that point that you really understand that A, there are different influencers for different objectives, B, there are different platforms for different objectives, but also C, it's understanding different influencers, affiliates, communities to really ensure that you're driving the right message. So, for instance, that huge footballer might have worked really well for getting a brand name out there, yeah, you know, and for just creating that brand resonance or whatever it might be, but they didn't really do much from a performance side of things. Yeah. Whereas actually it's those smaller creators that will help there. And like that's ultimately what it is is that every influencer has power and has a niche at different scale, regardless of that scale. It doesn't matter, affiliates influencers, they all do kind of extremely well. And it's more about the kind of term of engagement that I guess defines the influencer versus an affiliate. But likelihood is they're both in the same thing.
SPEAKER_01And I think that ties in nicely with what Robert Glazer has been talking about in terms of performance-based outcomes. So we're not just looking for traffic anymore in the affiliate channel or in the partnerships channel, whatever you want to call it. And we really do need to get slick with our terminology now. But I think that is the challenge that you've hit nail on the head there in terms of affiliate managers, is that they need to know how to engage with all of these different types of partners. They need to know what trigger points they're looking for those partners to fit in that funnel, whether it's brand awareness, you know, cost per sale, whatever it is that they that they need to use that partner for. And that's what makes it challenging, is that it's very difficult to be an affiliate manager where you're dealing cross-channels, cross-platforms, cross-GEOs, you know, and localization. And it's becoming a really big job to understand how to actually work with all of these things. Now, I love the fact that you shared that story as well, because I also want to point out for affiliate managers, sometimes we're too scared to make mistakes. We have to make mistakes in order to learn. And that was one really big mistake that happened that actually ended up growing a really successful agency. So don't be afraid to try new things when it comes to working with influencers and testing different metrics, because you never know what's going to work. And, you know, and you possibly even have to retest things because what didn't work six months ago could maybe work now because the rest of the market is sort of caught up and and you know, maybe data and analytics are a little bit clearer. And as the channels, as the different channels that these content curators work in, offer different metrics, like you mentioned with TikTok, you know, we we can start going a little bit deeper into how to actually utilize these channels as part of the marketing mix. Now, what are some of the key things that you would suggest brands consider before they start thinking about involving content curators and influencers into their affiliate mix? What do you think they need to be looking at specifically before they actually start?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and and I think this comes down to the you know significant portion of influencers that won't work for your brand. I think brands really need to have a clear view of like what they want to deliver and why, and to what target audience. And to do that, you need to identify, you need to have those that clear analysis of what you're actually really after. So there's quite a lot of preparation work into in terms of scoping and really understanding what those objectives are. Like, yeah, absolutely there is there is trial and testing, but we'll have so much data at our fingertips, particularly if you've got a presence on social that's organic, and you'll have that data, even looking at your Instagram channels, your Twitter channels, TikToks, Facebook, it might be minimal, but you'll have it best understanding your audience. But then when working with influencers, it's not being seduced by the big numbers that they might have in their following. It's not being seduced by even really strong engagement rates. It's speaking with them and best understanding their analytics, it's understanding the data that feeds into their own accounts. So you can best understand, like, okay, they might have a really strong engagement rate, but actually they might not be good click drivers when you look at their stories or when you get a better view at those other links that they have in their profiles. Actually, they've not got the kind of community that do engage with them in that way.
SPEAKER_01You know, you actually how do you check that stuff? Because I mean, do you literally have to ask them to share that personally before you actually get down to the nitty-gritty of discussing a campaign? Because for example, and this is and I'm glad you touched on this, that smaller influencers are actually better partners because I am quite engaged with my community on LinkedIn. And somebody actually said to me the other day, but Leanne, you're a macro influencer. And I was like, what the heck is a macro influencer? But I do have a very engaged audience, and when I put stuff out there, people engage and they like to see what I'm thinking when I'm talking. The other day I even saw somebody shared my stuff in German and I don't speak German. So they literally took what I'd written, translated it, and published it out to their community and said, Hey, look at this. This is what we need to be looking at. So I do understand the value metric behind looking at not just you know big numbers, because chances are, while those numbers are big, they're not engaged. They're just people that are like in the scroll in the feed. But how do you actually get that data? Is there tools that you can use, or do you have to have one-to-one conversations with the content curators themselves?
SPEAKER_04I mean, it's got to be a combination. So we again having worked with influencers for seven, eight years, yeah, we've built up a big old database and now hold all this information. It's kind of it's cool. We've got it from we've got it over time. So we also know the power of macros five years ago versus now, and actually, therefore, what strategy they fit best in with, etc. etc. That data's obviously been been built up over the years. But to be honest, yeah, there are tools, but having one-on-one conversations and getting these analytics and just literally just asking for screenshots, yeah, is what will give you the information that's needed. And the reason being is because clients will come to us and say, right, we need x percent percentage of clicks, and we'll say, okay, that's fine. And we can look at it in three days, and that's what an influence will send us. And we'll be like, Wow, that's really good clicks. And then we look at the content and we're like, okay, you did also just run a competition. Okay. Can we have the last 30 days? And then you can look at averaging it out and better understanding like what's a true metric for you, and then how valuable that is. Like what those one-on-one conversations, which again is why like it does tend to be, particularly for influential campaigns, employing an agency is helpful because it takes a hell of a lot of resource. And actually, like from our point of view, we don't just want to chuck tools at it and crack on because you don't always get the full picture. No, so I guess it's it's marrying up the data versus those individual relationships and partnerships. But that definitely is something that I think affiliates can also like look at, you know, have a good clear view of their own performance and where their strengths lie on each of those platforms before working with certain brands, whether it's traffic or whether it's sales, and you know, actually looking at, and I mean affiliates are only going to work with brands that they genuinely feel close to or that they feel they form for otherwise affiliate. Yeah. Yeah. And also like like consumers are savvy. It's the reason that influence marketing or affiliate marketing works so well and has become such a big like, you know, we're we're taking budget from TV, left, right, and center, because you're just not getting that targeted, genuine, trackable performance that you can on social. And it's yeah, it's a it's about having that data and really understanding what's going to work where for you.
SPEAKER_01So I'm hearing things that you need to do before you get into working with influencers. One, have a clear plan of what you want influencers to do, which part of the funnel you actually want them to support, two, get very clear on the data that they have and whether that data matches you, not just looking at the last three days, but looking at the last 30 days or 60 days, even, depending on what it is that they've been posting. Four, maybe take in specialist advice because it is a channel that does require skill. It's not something that any anybody, and I say this about the affiliate channel, like don't just, you know, launch an affiliate program and hope for the best. Go and ask an expert to come and help you map that strategy. And I would assume that the same thing applies here. If you are looking to converge and bring influencers into your program, get very clear about what the value metric is that you're going to be working with them. Because whilst, and this is actually my next question is whilst we are encouraging content curators to work on a performance basis, that isn't always the case. And I know you and I chatted quite substantially about this when we were talking about our Elevate Summit, in terms of the fact that, you know, you can't just walk up to a content curator and go, hey, take a percentage of sales, because that doesn't always work for them. So talk to us a little bit about how, you know, you can manage that upfront fee versus RevShare, because I think that's the biggest thing that affiliate managers are asking me is they all want to work on fixed fee, and we've got a budget that's based on performance. So, how do you actually approach that and how how do you suggest that people can get around that and still get the benefit of working with these collaborators?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it's a really interesting question and one that I've actually been quite thoughtful about and still probably am coming to my own conclusions about it. I mean, there are benefits in both. We actually work on a guaranteed deliverables model. So we up front say you're gonna get, if you pay X amount, you're going to get this many impressions, this many, this, this many, that. And like we will guarantee that. And if you don't get it, you pay the percentage that you did get. Okay. So that is how we as an agency work. So we're very clear with the performance marketing side of things, yeah. But we then have to pass that on to our influencers. So a big way that we work is, you know, really mapping out what individuals and what influencers are going to achieve for us within, you know, and we're really trying to move away from a kind of place where we say, right, we're going to get you X amount of Instagram stories, X amount of TikToks, X we want X amount of content because we do find that influencers have such different performance on different channels and will all deliver value. But it's up to, you know, you, me as the experts, to really make sure we're mapping that out, that out well. But in terms of like the performance guarantee for an individual, I would say it also depends potentially on like the longevity and the value of you see working with that brand and that individual because they're all that sorry, that brand, yeah, moving forward. Because obviously affiliates is fantastic if you can get continued revenue from that and you really see your audience working well at it. But if it's more of a one-off purchase, and like we've seen that model actually be introduced like sex toys, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And and to be honest, like that's probably the kind of thing you're gonna buy one of.
SPEAKER_01One one time, yeah. It's not something it's not like a Boscara that you're gonna replace every six to eight weeks, you know.
SPEAKER_04So that's exactly it. So I think it's just work, and you know, affiliate links are great for wider umbrella fashion brands where you can get continued things from depending on styles. So I think I think to be honest, when you look at that paid versus revenue share side of things, a it depends on your scale, I would say. Like influencers should be paid for the activity that they're doing. I think brands find it it's helpful for brands to be paying influencers because we can guarantee performance. And as an agency, that's what we really specialise in. Guarantee the type of content that's going to be distributed, but it's you know, guarantee the messaging and you know what's gonna go out, etc. And that's interesting because that's a really kind of that we we we work with these influencers to ensure that the content's super authentic, but also we're making sure that you know we're getting the right influence on the board for the right brands who will deliver what we're after on a campaign period. Whereas affiliates are slightly more fluid, I guess. Like you do it for your on board with a brand and you do it more for your audience and how it's best to get that message across for what you know they might be interested in.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Would you say? I do. I do say, and I also think you've hit the nail on the head with yet another point about why it's maybe important to get specialist experience when you're working with influencers and and that convergence into your affiliate program is brand reputation and brand management, because a lot of brands resist the urge to work with influencers on social channels because they feel like they don't control their narrative as well. But essentially, I think if you pre-plan and you pre-curate or uh you can't tell an influencer what to put out there because it's their content, but you can give them guidelines, very strict guidelines in terms of how the brand should be conveyed and how you know whatever it is that they're going to be doing with that content should be curated. So I don't think that that should be something that puts you off. But I do want to talk about the things that sometimes go wrong because that's why people are here listening to us. They actually want to hear the nuts and bolts, the kind of raw deal of you know, this convergence that's happening. Should I, shouldn't I? And when I do, what should I get ready? But what is maybe one of the big lessons that you've learned working in this space for the last eight years that you can maybe share with our audience today? Just something that maybe didn't go the w as well as planned and that you learnt a valuable lesson from. Oh God. I'm sure that you're not spotchier now. And you really, you really are ready to talk about what went well, but talk about what went well first. Talk about some stuff that you've done that maybe others listening to this podcast can actually kind of, you know, just think about and ruminate on and go, hey, maybe that would work for me.
SPEAKER_04You know what? I could probably do both at the same time. Okay. Because I think like I would say the first thing about things going wrong is that social platforms change all the time with absolutely zero warning. Um whether that means, you know, and I'm like famously, I remember there was a blackout for like probably not even that long, 12 hours. And it just completely messed up a the timelines, the the messaging of campaigns. Some people had already gone out and therefore refused to take it down because they've already done it, etc. And it just impacted performance so significantly.
SPEAKER_01Time sensitivity. So I mean, that's something that, you know, whatever, something can happen and you can't control and you learn from that. Do you obviously have backup plans and things in place?
SPEAKER_04It yeah, absolutely. But then also less significant, less visible platform changes that happen and happen over time. Like, and affiliates will feel this, I'm sure. Yeah. Suddenly your story views are dropping from 20% down to 10%. Yeah. That that's big. Like that suddenly changes everything in terms of the pool performance you're expecting to be expecting to get, the strategy that you put forward, the types of messaging that you're using on stories versus feedbots, like platforms for me and remaining responsive to what's going on, but also being very upfront and clear with clients that like you know we can predict 90% of stuff, but Instagram, TikTok are their own beasts. Yeah. And not even individuals within TikTok and Instagram might be might get the heads up on these changes. So I'd say that that's definitely been a bit of a learning. It's just being reactive, as you say, having backup plans. Like, and again, like this is a media. And in my previous for the you know, however many years before I worked an influencer, paid media is easy. Chuck money in Facebook, and don't get me wrong, that business manager is not an easy platform to use, but you put it in, money comes out, it's very solid and reliable. Influencers and affiliates, everyone's got their own lives. We're dealing with people here, so it's also working, it's working with that and like trying not to be too unhuman about it. You know, affiliates and influencers are the most unbelievable performance channels, but also when the relationship's right, yes, like that's so important. So, yeah, I'd say those are a few big learnings. I think like I know that something we're kind of gonna speak about is also what those insider learnings look like. Yeah. And like recently I've been out to Qatar actually for the World Cup, and it had a bit of a learning for both kind of you know, what brands should be doing versus also what influencers should be doing. Yeah. And I think actually for a brand perspective, it's that relationship which is so important and giving the right experience. And you know, it doesn't need to be massive and lavish and huge PR box, but a note which introduces someone to an affiliate program or an influencer to get them really excited and say, Hey, we're so excited to have you on board, just gives that extra little touch. You'll get the content better, the messaging will be better, just the general brand love, like likelihood is you're also going to get a hell of a lot more earned content, which is so important and really does drive that authenticity, which to be honest, is where we see that performance coming from. Yeah. But then on the flip side, an affiliate or influencer who is professional and who looks to professionalize this market, as you say, like we've got too many words, yeah, even when we're speaking about this, and we'd both worked in it for years. Like there is certainly an element of like sophistication that we're all working to in this space and this industry to really make sure it's a viable, long-term, sustainable media channel. Yeah. And actually, influencers that do want to look to professional as that industry. Like, I cannot explain the value of being prompt, being timely, being communicative, being honest, giving feedback, you know, just working in a very professional business-like manner will go so far.
SPEAKER_01But I think it's also collaboration because we try and and and this is no negative comment on affiliate managers, but we try and fit everybody into the box, into the box of what our platform can do, into the box of what our budgets can do, into the box of you know what our brand um, you know, curators want us to do. And actually, you just have to work with a person, and that person isn't gonna fit in every box all the time. But being professional and being collaborative, that can go such a long way, both on the affiliate side, the influencer side, and as you've just said it, with even with agency stakeholders, it's all about just being collaborative and professional.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, for sure. And you're so right about fitting everyone into a box. And the reason that we do that is because social moves so quickly, we don't have time. Like we had a brief five-minute conversation for this where we both are like, yeah, busy. It's been a busy couple of weeks, etc. But actually, like having taking an extra five minutes from all stakeholders just to just to really be meaningful, tailor things slightly, really be thoughtful and think about it, will just save that time in the future. I say it all the time to people I work with, people I manage to, you know, even when I was with influencers and you, you know, you get round one content through, and you're like, it wasn't a part of the brief. But if we do it right the first time, it just takes that stress off, you know, really keeps those relationships there. And and yeah, I think I think it's such an important part of being the driving forces in professionalizing it. Like when we were when you know, I've worked with influencers with five or six million followers, and I've been with them, and they've been the most unbelievable people to be around. And you know, you're starstruck by these people. You've seen them on social, they're they're household names at this point for a lot of people, versus some influencers who have far smaller following and maybe who are less engaged and on their phone. And you know, I I get it, I totally understand it. It can be an intimidating space to be, but making that effort to just be the professional, particularly in person or in content, just I can't explain how far it goes. It does.
SPEAKER_01And also people imprint on you, you know. So, and when you're working with influencers who have communities, they want to imprint on their community as well. So giving them that creative license and freedom to not have to be forced into the box, the same box as every other affiliate, and to let them actually consider how they would work with you as a brand, and maybe even come up with something unique, which isn't always you know a possibility depending on you know budgets and and resourcing, that can go a long way as well into helping them to integrate and and converge into your performance channel as well.
SPEAKER_04You're so right. And actually affiliates suddenly become ambassadors. And I've had it with various clients in the in the past, you know, even working at big kind of sports nutritionist brands where affiliates is a huge part of what they do. But suddenly then, like you're a big part of it. You might not be a huge, huge sales driver, but being that communicative, putting out great content, being enthusiastic, being being excited about partnership, which ultimately all influencers should let's do anyway, but like suddenly they're in brand videos, they're in huge hero shoots, they're a big part of their social content. Like you don't know what could happen if you imprint on someone, as you say, and you know, just that avenue into it. And then, you know, suddenly if you're doing that, there are there are other kinds of opportunities in terms of pay, etc. So suddenly it's not about affiliates, it's about a lot more than that and creating partnerships. You know, we've had loads of influencers go from one singular influencer campaign to actually thinking, hey, you just want to read well to this, we'll put you on the affiliate side of things, and then pass them on to kind of affiliate managers as well who can work on that more consistent kind of revenue driving. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01So I do like to ask everybody kind of, you know, where you've come from, what you've learned since you've been here, and where do you think it's headed next? In the last kind of two minutes of our podcast chat, which has been phenomenal, thank you for being here. Where do you think we're gonna be heading next with content curators, influencers, ambassadors, whatever we're gonna umbrella and jargonize these people into? How do you think that brand should be kind of looking to move forward with these guys?
SPEAKER_04It's super interesting. I think influencers is the wrong word for this now. I think you're right, it's content curators, content creators, etc. I think the space that anyone with a following or a community, and that can be a following of 2000 or it can be two million, everyone holds that niche respect, that niche authenticity. You know, we work with welding helmets. There is a niche for absolutely everything. I know it's it's very niche. You know, B2B, for instance, like it it's but it what it is, is I think it's brands really understanding how what their objectives are, and then how influencers or affiliates or creators, etc., then fit into that. We really are moving to a space where we're a we're we're not an influencer agency, but we're past that. I think the industry is past that. We're a social media agency who do have content created at the heart of everything that we do, and whether that's driving huge awareness in terms of influencer campaigns and genuinely just doing big bursts of influencer activity, you know, ambassador schemes and infiliating schemes are still so important to have that consistent message, voice, face throughout. But then also finding curators who have the most incredible creation skills, high quality content that they can turn around in 24 hours, you know, the opportunity for them to then create paid assets, for instance, or social content, or be a part of those communities is so big. I think what it is is it's it's just getting more sophisticated about the value that we're seeing, where we'll see it, defining objectives really clearly and then fitting or then defining what those strategies look like. And I think social just will continue to become such a big part of what we do. I think it's you know, pre-pandemic it was big, post-pandemic it's even bigger. I don't think I've sat and watched the TV in years, too used to just going on chicken, you know, don't get me told, don't get me started about that.
SPEAKER_01I mean, I've I've been interested in seeing how, you know, fast fashion has really taken over the social space. I mean, there's a brand that I've been looking quite closely into called She In. And, you know, I'm not saying that I agree with all of the things that they're doing on social, but I mean they're sure as eggs have made an impact and grown very, very fast using the content curators that they can reach out to through social channels. So I think it's super it's a super cool space. I think the convergence of affiliated influencers and content curators, ambassadors, whatever we're gonna call all of these lovely folk that we want to be working with is a very interesting channel as well. And it and I think you're right, it's not gonna slow down. And and as new channels come into the space, I mean I'm seeing new social media channels being created, you know, at least one every month that I find out more about. Or so I think I think we just need to be looking forward and and figuring out what works for us because it is going to be tailor-made.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. I mean, for sure, the best thing about it is data. You you can't get that in traditional media channels in the same way that you can here, like you can't understand who's who is whopting your content from whatever town, like it can get so granular. And I think that's really where the power of influencer and affiliate and you know social media does lie is is data, to be honest. And that's to be us what we're what we're really founded on, and where we really see that interest, and where affiliates does so well too. Yeah, is all on that data where you don't get anywhere else. So yeah, you're right. No sign of it slowing down, I don't think. Only getting more sophisticated, and I think probably getting even more structured as to how we build these strategies and approaches. And yeah, super interesting. You could you could honestly, TikTok was the worst thing to bring up. Don't do that. I could go for hours.
SPEAKER_01Eli, it's been a pleasure to have you on this podcast. Thank you so much for sharing some of your insights, your learnings, your failures, your successes, and really just helping us to understand how this channel converges with the affiliate space as well. Thank you so much for having me.
SPEAKER_03It's been awesome. And that's a wrap for this week's Affiliate Insider, Affiliate Marketing Podcast. If you're loving what we're putting down in this series, head on over to Apple iTunes and give us a five-star rating and subscribe to our podcast channel so you never miss another insightful episode. Tune in next week for more digital marketing insights and traffic driving tips, tricks, and strategies to keep your digital marketing fresh and your affiliate program driving effective failed.
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