From Fabi Bay Parkers, who's the head of our physician and he's one of the most knowledgeable people under affiliate marketing in Africa. And we caught up together at the recent LAC event in London. And it's just a joy for me to have you here today, Bill. Thanks very much for coming on to the podcast.
SPEAKER_00Thank you very much for having me, Leon. Yeah, excited to have this chat.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, me too. So let's delve in and get you started by telling our audience a little bit about your journey into African affiliation and the affiliate market as a whole there. And also how Premier Bet has established itself on the continent as an early market leader.
SPEAKER_00Sure, yeah, thank you. Yeah, Premier Bat partners. Um we are basically uh the centrally uh the central body behind the marketing of our local partners. Yeah, Premier Bat uh um, I mean the cradle of Premier Bat is really spread across 24 different African countries, I would say. What we what we do, we can only support uh uh the work that those guys are doing uh being a central marketing function. Yeah, I think Premier Bat really, really started showing phase with the brand uh being operated on the ground by local uh agents, local shop owners.
SPEAKER_02Um so the vision of our founder It's kind of the way that most brands start in Africa. There's this offline local presence, and then the kind of online business follows after suit. Um so tell us a little bit about that transition journey and how Premier Bit has become one of the biggest brands in Africa.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So this day's back since the uh the late 90s. Uh so the vision, uh the vision of the guys behind Premier Bat was always to offer sports betting and lottery uh um to the continent, but in a way that makes it interesting enough uh for the people to operate with, to build careers around it, and to tap into their entrepreneurial spirit, so to speak. So yeah, Premier Bat started with uh green flags, uh, you know, green flags that uh local agents and urban African area areas operate with, as well as, you know, uh I guess more conventional batting shops like we would know them right here. Top of my head, DRC and Cameroon have been like, you know, two of those textbook examples that are at the forefront of that. When I think about Premier Bats, and I guess like visualizing what a brand is about, uh I'm thinking about a city like Kinshasa, heaving, loaded with uh um, you know, very driven people, uh, all doing what they have to do. And Premier Bat really embodies our spirit too. Um we want to make their lives easier, um, you know, um and offer offer products you know that are easy to operate with and that actually are adapted to you know these market circ circumstances. I think a big part of that was uh um yeah, again, uh started on the streets, a lot of human contact, uh so a lot of face-to-face interaction to educate people around our uh products. And that has that was actually the foundation of our long-term trust, you know, with people that operate for us, but also ultimately the customer. Um you know, these guys uh they they've they've played their part to uh um to actually yeah educate people around both lottery and sports betting. Um and that wouldn't have been possible without, I guess, that that human interaction. Um you know, fast forward 20 years, um, like everywhere else in the world, uh the continent is transforming into the digital space.
SPEAKER_02And how how quickly is that happening? Uh, because because you know, people think of Africa and they still think it's a dark continent, but actually they surpass us in terms of you know, like they they kind of skipped the the desktop phase and just went straight into mobile. And the penetration in mobile in Africa is unreal. Like, I mean, if you've ever been to Africa, you can see pretty much everybody on the street has a mobile phone and they're ordering things and they're selling things and they the transferring money to each other. I mean, I know I'm South African, so I know a little bit of the African continent, you know a lot more. Um, but how how do you think that that progression has influenced the way that affiliate marketing is coming forward?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, 100%. And and and yeah, it's it's it's so true. Like uh there's this there seems to be this this trend that most uh the countries we targets, they tend to skip a step. Um so you know, we all we all I guess we're all millennials slash generation Z, however you want to call it. We grew up with the laptop generation, right? We used uh whatever Amazon Messenger. Um that's the whole step that'll be skipped by uh, I guess, like uh African youth, uh, and and you know, I guess African as a whole adopting uh uh digital platforms, smartphones, etc. They're a smartphone first audience, uh more so than Europe ever has been. We've always had that bias, I guess, towards um yeah, desktop experience and I guess early millis internet experiences.
SPEAKER_02A lot of our listeners are probably similar age to you and I. And I mean, I know I sort of get a little bit suspect when I don't when I hear of a business and they don't actually have a website. I'm like, is it a bona fide business just because they don't have a website? But in Africa, that isn't the case because people are building on Facebook, they're building on Instagram, they're using you know TikTok channels. Um so just the whole traffic marketplace in Africa is completely different, right?
SPEAKER_00Yep, absolutely. Yeah, and like you say, like you know, big platforms are used in different ways. You know, they got the most out of, I guess, uh these uh microgroups uh on platforms like Facebook. Um and yeah, yeah, I I think you just upon a brief, arguably the most African um adoption that that I can think of is yeah, definitely like mobile money. Um, you know, actually the the whole concept of using um a tele a telecom network uh to facilitate currency is just that's just uh yeah. I mean that that's that's innovation in its own right. And I guess that that's that's that's a textbook example of like, you know, make making making this technology work for them within within their infrastructure and you know with within within their uh um macro uh uh circumstances, uh so to speak.
SPEAKER_02So you've got you've got quite a unique experience because I know you have a lot of European marketing experience and then European affiliate experience. How have you transitioned that experience over into Africa? Because you know, we talk of Africa as a continent, but actually it's a little bit like the state. Each country in Africa is a completely different country with a different culture, with a different adoption rate, with a different infrastructure. So how have you transitioned your expertise at Premier Bit from the European side, you know, coming from the European side of you know the iGaming industry and and and plugged that into the kind of ethos and methodology that Premier Bit is building in Africa? What what are some of the key things that you guys have had to innovate on?
SPEAKER_00For sure. So that yeah, um it's very true. Um there's definitely a couple of you know learnings um that we can use uh as long as we don't ignore some of the local uh uh local realities, local preferences. Uh first of all, you know, sports betting, um it's not really um it's almost irrelevant what the preferred channel is, and with that I mean, you know, whether whether um whether a sports batter prefers doing its cast in hand in a shop or online. Um some of the principles are you know the same. You know, we all of Premier League football. You know, we all of I think coincidentally, Premier League is also pretty big in Africa. You know, a football fan is a football fan to an extent. I think one thing that I would want to point out there, though, in terms of like batting behavior, as much as they are football fans, probably even more than you know, in Europe we are, they do look at uh sports betting almost as more of a uh a lottery background. So you know, a classic way of batting uh uh I guess in a market like the UK is like you know, pretty sophisticated bat builder bets, uh, where you have like quite deep legs with very specific selections, red cards, whatever. Africa is all about accumulators. So, you know, they they will pick you know the Barcelona, the Man Cities, you know, the big the big likely winners, and they'll find they'll find 30 of those across you know a set time. That's a very classic African way of betting. Yeah, so they're a lot bigger on an accumulator, probably less on the more like uh uh deeper, match specific markets. Um, but but again, that's changing. So, one thing I would point out for you know African sports books in general, it's like your sports book needs to be optimized for that. You need to show the right markets, but you also need to show the right features and offers that cater into that kind of betting behavior.
SPEAKER_02So that should really be one of the things that affiliates looking to get into Africa should look for in the partners that they work with, is the product stack needs to actually match what customers really want in that region, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, 100%. And that that's that's that's desk research that can be done and it tends to become quite clear uh um if that's optimized. Um so yeah, that's something that I would recommend uh any affiliate that's interested in operating in Africa to do, you know, to do their own task research, so to speak. Yeah, uh it's it it's it's a big one, and uh that's where it starts. Um channel-wise, um I would say there's no underestimating. Well, you you touched upon it briefly, like you know, it's it's one continent, no two countries are the same. Um I think both both operators and affiliates need to be aware of the country level, digital adoption, you know, cost of data, infrastructure, smartphone adoption in general. I I think that I think that's the biggest thing. Um you know, the most actionable way of segmenting any African country am I within what we do, um I find is smartphone users versus you know uh um uh featured phone users, uh, which again is a very African phenomenon. A smartphone user is you know probably the most comparable with what we're used to. You know, it's um great UX, uh data-rich um websites, you know, feature heavy, you do it all for the experience, and you got the data as a user as well as the infrastructure to uh to support that experience. A feature phone user, you know, uh uh, and I'm thinking about countries like DRC, Nigeria, Tanzania, uh a feature phone is optimized to um one have a stable experience in uh uh in what's a pretty jumpy um internet infrastructure, so low data, close to 2G, 3G, and two, to use the lowest amount of data possible. Um, you know, this is like linked to like payment plans and uh uh and that kind of stuff. Now to cater for that kind of segment, that's that's data, that that data sensitive. An operator should have you know what what's referred to as a light version of their website. Basically a website that's um yeah, optimized for like Oprah and extreme mode, uh extreme mode. There's a whole audience there, you know, a very kind of like small audience. Uh that needs to be catered for in that way. Um at the end of the day, it's up to the operator to decide which segment he wants to target. But it's very important, you know, it could be both, it could be one of either. It's very important to be aware of that and you know, who you go after, who you don't go after because of, you know, internal, external, commercial reasons. I think that's a big one.
SPEAKER_02What I'm hearing here for affiliates that are tuning in is that A, you need to be choosing which operator you're gonna be kind of partnering with in the country or region or or state that you're gonna be uh targeting. And obviously you've got to do your research on the data infrastructure, the mobile uh penetration in in that region. But secondly, you need to make sure that the partners that you are joining or the programs that you are joining understand that uh their platform needs to be adjusted uh country to country as well in in you know in Africa. Here in Europe, it's like the same front end website with a different landing page again for you know Italy, France, Africa, whatever. So the the entire marketing infrastructure for um you know operators going into the the African market, they need there needs to be a lot of thought that I guess put behind the product itself. Um and affiliates need to be uh you know understanding that and doing their research to partner with the right brands in each country, otherwise they could be wasting their time promoting certain brands that just aren't ever gonna convert because the infrastructure isn't right. So it's it's almost quite scientific. Like, you know, when you think of Africa, you think, oh, there's millions of people then it's super easy to go and penetrate that market. But what you're telling us is is that there really is a lot of deep thought behind what's what's being put out there.
SPEAKER_00Yeah yeah, absolutely. And and and and I gotta give a bit of a shout-out to um our product team here. I think one of uh one of the biggest priorities that came to fruition last year and um is you know will will very soon be rolled out across any of our active geos, is um is a uh server-to-service style technology. So you know, some people refer to it as headless websites. Um so you know, without without trying to make it too technical, the principle is that uh um your front-end code is decoupled from um the server where your website is. So what what we have done is actually um some um a technology that that actually um loads much quicker. Um so what basically um affiliates will feel this in their conversion from visit to sign-up. Um we we've seen it, it's been tried and tested. Um it has has had a massive massive impact, particularly um on bounce rates and visit to visit to sign-up. Um yeah, it it's it's uh uh we we continue to double down on that one because it's made it's made it's been making the biggest difference technology-wise.
SPEAKER_02And that's really intelligent marketing. I mean, it's it's you know, you you you're really developing the products so that affiliates benefit from from promotions because that registration to conversion is probably the most important metric that an affiliate really cares about because it directly impacts their bottom line earnings.
SPEAKER_00That's it, yeah, yeah, yeah. And we're very conscious about that. And um, and to be honest, I find that part, those conversations, um usually the most meaningful uh on a regular basis with our trusted partners anyway. Um, you know, we're we're we're not we're not uh um we we both want to make this work usually, you know. Um both uh both affiliates as well as us have commercial interests. Um whatever they report back to us, we try to take that on board and optimize and go again. Uh but I think that's the beauty of affiliate marketing. Um that that makes to me that makes the difference between I guess a transactional media buy versus um, yeah, I guess like a performance-based model where both parties have a you know a good finger in the pie. Um yeah.
SPEAKER_02So talking about performance, I want to get a little bit deeper into like customers and how they perform, because uh as we mentioned, uh every country is very different to like the one next to it. Just because you're on the same continent doesn't mean that everything's similar. So can you talk us through some of the key differences in the major African markets that you're seeing growth in right now? Because I think that's what the affiliates that might be listening to this podcast are really interested in. Like if you're a new affiliate, you've got traffic, you've got some African traffic, but you're not really doing anything with it. Like, where do you start on the continent? Like, what's what's the most valuable uh area that you guys have seen that you can leverage and teach you know publishers to kind of get involved and help increase those early beginnings, those early um, you know, sparks of like there's something here. Like what are the key, I mean, we know Nigeria, you know, huge. Um, but what are some of the other African markets that are quite interesting right now?
SPEAKER_00For sure. Yeah, no, great question. Again, I think we've talked about this already, uh, but there's there's definitely a strong correlation with, I guess, digital transformation and you know, the infrastructure behind that. You know, thinking about countries like Kenya and Tanzania, they're pretty much there. You know, it's very high when it comes to yeah, just uh digital natives and obviously you know, operators can cater for that with online products. Um, you know, uh preference to payment methods. If we're talking about again, we've talked about it before, if we're talking about cash-enhanced markets, then you know, uh it's still very much retail forward. Um but but yeah, usually again, that that that digital adoption tends to translate in higher player values as well. Uh and there's a bit of a general trend around that in uh I would say like East African territories. Um and you know, that comes with higher player value uh as well. I have to point out that there's a bit of a flip side there too, um, because you know, um operators know that too. Uh, and and most brands that enter Africa will pursue these markets uh for that reason, because the quality is there. Um for the affiliates, um what that would imply um would be inflated media buys. Um, you know, uh there'd be higher demands around digital impressions. Um affiliates are gonna feel it's in their CPMs, and consequently their CPAs are their end. Uh so it becomes a bit more inflated. We've seen better results and you know, almost like beyond East Africa, uh, I would say like West Africa, Portuguese-speaking Africa. Um, it's a bit more, in a way, like um there's a lot more education to be done, but it's less saturated. The investment at the affiliate hands should be lower, so it should be more cost-efficient. At the same time, that player value won't pay off right away, uh, but but imminently it will come. So again, our best partners uh, this is this is how we work, you know, we're in it for the long run, you know, and with that I mean like, you know, when you come from a European way of thinking, three months tends to be, you know, three months' break-even tends to be a bit of a milestone. Here we're talking, you know, if you're doing a good job, we're talking about six months, and that's just the way, that's just the reality of the market. But it's changing so quickly. Um, being an early mover, you know, has nothing but benefits.
SPEAKER_02But are you saying that customer values and tenures are a little bit longer than what we would expect here in Europe? Because there's a lot of uh, you know, like promiscuity in players here in Europe because there is so much choice. But um in Africa, because it's still an emerging market, the kind of metrics that you need to be thinking about in terms of what you charge for your placements and how you, you know, what kind of commercials you're negotiating with with affiliates and um that have traffic in Africa, we need to think about longer tenures or um, you know, shorter, shorter pay or longer payback times, but um, you know, more long-term partnerships being developed versus short-term like kind of plays um where I want to be on this side for this this event and then I want to be on that side. So this is more about building partnerships, less about onboarding as many affiliates as possible. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00Um yeah, no, absolutely. And I think I think the guy the guys that have done the best work together with us, they get that too. Like, you know, they'll be the first ones to call it out. Uh um, they get that. They anticipate for you know um yeah, being in a for you know relatively longer run. Um this this probably is a good segue uh uh uh to talk about verticals as well, uh, sports books, casino. Um look, I think we all know like I mean, uh pretty much all of Africa is football crazy. They absolutely love it. And and you know, as an affiliate, it's obvious that that's why your conversion, you know, that's why that's why you got your first-time depositors, you know, in those environments, and you know, they're so engaged with it. Um the conventional uh the conventional tactic tends to be you know acquiring within sports environment and and cross sell on a CRM level two casino products. Um having having said that, um for us two uh 20 uh twenty two has been a bit pivotal, um particularly with casino first campaigns. And I g I gotta say, like uh um I can humbly say our expectations. were exceeded. There's something about how some of our countries respond to a casino first campaign. And with that I mean supported by a bit of above the line and adopt that on a game level, you know, rather than having to go via sports book. And that's a game changer when it comes to you know player uh uh player lifetime you know with quicker payback basically um and we you know we we we recognize that as well you know and and our uh our reward rates will you know athletes will be rewarded for that accordingly for driving that casino traffic um yeah it it's it's wonderful how it's adopted too because there's definitely there's a more um kind of like a uh relaxed casual way around using casino products that I haven't really experienced or seen in Europe. It's a bit more lighthearted um which is good in a way because uh um you know because obviously we want to protect players and you know we want to do do do it right but it's yeah there's this whole community thing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah I mean I think that's baked into African culture really I mean everything is about the community the uh you know your your next door neighbor uh and you don't experience that here in Europe like people in Europe are a little bit more closed off they're in their flicks you know you go on the tube in London and nobody even makes eye contact whereas in Africa somebody will have a full on conversation with you on the train before you've even reached your destination you've shared the sandwich you now know that they're you know you're probably connected through your mother's aunties uncle's cousin like that's how Africa is it's like it's very uh community focused so I think brands need to realize that they need to realize that you know the even even right down so the product needs to be different the commercials need to be different but even right down to what you're offering country by country also needs to be different because like you said you know what happens in Kenya doesn't necessarily happen in Tanzania.
SPEAKER_00Uh yeah what 100% and yeah there will always be a bit of a shared uh a shared element there but yeah localization is everything for us it's uh yeah it's it's it's make or break uh uh that point so do you see a lot of influencer marketing stimulating acquisition growth in because of this community environment like are they ambassadors does that actually play a big part of the marketing strategy yeah it's that um it's definitely uh particularly on a local level I would say um so uh yeah and I'm gonna I'm thinking about markets like uh um like Cameroon for example um yeah the the the influence the influencer landscape is pretty big there the output of you know some of these uh social media characters is is is amazing that there's always a nice test of kind of like comedy around it like you know they just love kind of like comedy in general uh um yeah uh music is huge heavy time as well uh so those are kind of like the current themes any any industry of influence uh it will always have something to do with like music comedy um and and yeah usually it's like you know breaking it down like uh uh you know these guys again play a huge part of education around uh our product you know they they they talk they talk their audiences through how to play aviator you know they they uh obviously they they have their way of stepping certain sports buttons yeah and uh again it's all very lighthearted very whimsical um and and and yeah very like almost like peer-to-peer in a in the digital space uh that that that influencer piece that's quite interesting and is that cost efficient or is it like because a lot of what we do here in in influencer marketing is very like fixed fee based there's you know a lot of upfront costs or is it still possible to get the value out of these kind of nano and micro influencers that are are building communities in Africa is that quite interesting still um it's uh it's it's hard to um well in general and this almost goes beyond influencers uh um delivery date uh delivery data in general like even when I think about TV and T VR is doesn't is not a thing in you know our markets like you know so you so the the delivery piece post campaign for all of that all that kind of stuff tends to be a bit yeah a bit of a black box and and we need to be comfortable with that. So influencers of course you got a bit more detail there but again attributing what it brought to the table uh um we always end up kind of like scoping out and looking at the full mix anyway because yeah it's uh um there's definitely a bit of an uh an uh bit of a black box element there um but but but you know this uh to be fair like uh um when it comes to digital media buying um it's a bit more clear you know it's not not you know that's that's not not any different uh from I guess the way that we would have done it here. And then yeah after the equation we're talking about again cheaper CPMs um there's a reason why within the African affiliate space I guess media buyers are so huge.
SPEAKER_02Yes it's measurable yes it's a bit more cost efficient and also the scale and the volume is just uh yeah it's it's uh it's uh yeah it's uh uh um yeah it speaks for itself what about finding homegrown talent because obviously you know a lot of European brands are moving into Africa they've got you know 10 plus years experience already working in digital what are you seeing locally in all of these markets that you work in and I know you've visited a lot of places in Africa as well like you've physically been there is there a lot of homegrown talent like local agencies that are coming up and doing really cool innovative localized marketing or is it still a bit of a kind of like free for all and anybody can come in and do stuff?
SPEAKER_00Yeah to be honest uh um yeah that there's there's definitely like you know uh hungry and smart switched on local agencies um the the emphasis is still very much on outdoor more than anything else I would say uh um outdoor marketing yeah is still so big um uh you know these same agencies they will be the ones that uh um that will recommend local influences to um um so that that's a recurring theme uh but yeah the the the you know talking about general marketing like the the the outdoor space is so big and and we feel the effects of it as well like uh um I humbly believe that uh um you know uh African audiences respond differently to us or as part of the full mix almost in a direct response way dare I say you know uh compared to uh what we are used to and our and our uh I guess like marketing comms landscape.
SPEAKER_02Yeah I kind of feel like in Europe we're brand blind like who cares about a billboard on a street right like we we're so we we the noise is so loud that almost outdoor advertising and and you know in in stadium advertising whatever we we expect it to be there. We're not looking for it. You know we're not surprised by it. Whereas I think in Africa when you see big billboards and big things like that you actually take notes still because that's still a very key part of the kind of community and and the infrastructure that we have there. So I I tend to agree with you there. But the one question I do have for you though and and I'm only asking this to you because I know you've been there in multiple different countries if the influencer landscape is looking really exciting and and kind of adding value m probably a little bit more so than what it does here. What's the potential to bypass our traditional affiliate and actually move into partnership marketing with other brands in Africa and connecting the dots kind of like I mean here in Europe we've done sports book uh sports betting and football clubs and there's you know rules and regulations that have come around brand connections like that. But are there connections with like local clothing suppliers or you know jewelry suppliers and things like that that where you can actually target you know segmented types of people in those communities?
SPEAKER_00Yeah no I hear what you're saying uh yeah that there's there's definitely a couple of examples like uh and I'm just trying to um one interesting one was uh a restaurant chain you know um there's overlap of I guess people people that love pizza with people that uh um you know watch football that kind of stuff um uh talcon telcon operators are huge you know again because of the um the mobile money thing um I mean these you these are really powerful partnerships if you're close to you know the Airtels uh the Oranges uh I mean uh these guys they they they're all really real big data you know and uh an actionable um mobile first target audience so it's these can be really powerful partnerships um and also yeah you know uh we we talk about football clubs like yes um there there's uh there's a couple of ways that um that brands can go about it like you know for argument's sake if you want to position yourself as a big um international European brand and a straightforward thing to do is like you know uh buy geo uh you know kind of like geo uh billboards and Premier League clubs you know and I have your brand shown there but if you want to be truly African um and you know we you know are we try to position ourselves that you know the probably African brands um you want to more look more at like the grassroots clubs you want to look more at like local influences.
SPEAKER_02I mean I I used to work for a f a financial services company a million years ago in when I when I grew up in Cape Town and one of the key things that they did was support grassroots football clubs in lots and lots of different townships and places and they would actually um you know put on like um school holiday clubs for like you know teenagers and things like that um because a it helped them you know learn a skill and b it also kind of put infiltrated their brand into the localized community and then that kind of like community spread that word of mouth spread used to amplify and just bring in customers by the drift. So it really is a different kind of marketing that you have to do there and you have to be open to lots of other different channels and partnerships too.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely and I would probably want to add to that uh um my impression is that um African sports fans don't follow clubs uh they follow people so and with that I would say like uh yeah people and with people I mean you know they're gonna either um they will follow every single move of Sadio Mani you know they will follow every single move of any successful big African player. So our statement piece was a um yeah DJ drogabout brand ambassadorship it takes all the boxes for us you know it's a self-made African icon you know as big as they get within the football space um through role model um you know um obviously he's a um French football punditry as well everyone every African uh football fan will will will one way or another you know know what he's about um he takes all of our boxes what how we wanted to position ourselves in the continent you know play on that trust um uh you know um yeah and and and you know uh share those values that uh um a person like DJ Drogbar um stands for and I think that's that's it's good marketing you know when you care about the brand and how the brand is represented and how people perceive the brand that sets you up for success and it actually ends up meaning quite a lot for your affiliate partners too because they need to buy into your brand and they need to know that if they're going to expend time money resources to promote your brand that they're going to get the the ROI.
SPEAKER_02So it's it's a good grassroots marketing that that I'm really happy to hear and and that premium but has taken the time to actually invest in all of this. But the other thing I want to point out for some of our listeners because this podcast doesn't need to speak into eye gaming it's speaker to e-commerce it's a speaker to retail it's bigger to even the South African product industry you know this is some very very valuable stuff that you've shared about the African continent. And if if any of those types of companies are looking to get in I mean the key takeaway here is like get down to grass streets marketing in the country that you're looking to target and start to look for local ambassadors that can help you to educate the audience and then do partnerships. Like the the one thing about the about the gaming industry is that it's always first to innovate and it usually creeps into new markets very quickly, sauces it out you know does the education piece. So there might even be opportunities for retail brands and gaming brands to somehow form partnerships that give customers a better user experience. So if there's anybody listening to this and you want to get into the African market you want to kind of talk to Gilles about you know how do you actually bring your brand there and it could it could even be like luxury goods it could be you know technical you know IT goods whatever it is if Africa and the continent of Africa is on your target mix to actually build a business like have a chat you know because I think partnerships is is where it's at at the moment and we need to bring brands together to talk about how do we leverage the learning that we're doing with all of this innovative marketing I think. Yeah absolutely cool so one last question before we shut this podcast off for the week which has been super interesting is what makes you passionate about being in affiliate marketing in Africa? Like you as in your career journey and and why you joined because I've never met anybody that's as passionate about Africa I mean other than me who is African um but why why have you chosen to kind of be here and and work in this really cool emerging landscape?
SPEAKER_00Yeah it's a great question. I mean first of all like uh I come from a brand management background uh before I moved into affiliation uh so I think one thing um and you know I will always put my hands up uh uh to our tiny affiliate that we work with we we we we expect the world right like affiliates is uh the affiliates are the you know the hard high converting partners you know that that promote your brand we as operators need to take responsibility to invest in the market as well so I I'm I want to you know any any affiliate that we speak with I I want to acknowledge that whenever we can like you know uh affiliation is is a massive grog as part of our full uh marketing machine so to speak um so you know a shared responsibility um I love the fact that uh um yeah uh that that that that is great that is greater than affiliation almost that there's more stuff more stuff at play um African affiliation specifically and I I'd probably say African marketing in general like you know it's changing so quickly it's transforming um we're all trying stuff out like you know it's we we're talking about you know I would probably roughly say uh um UK 15 years ago or something like that um you know that's just finger in finger in the air um so it's we're talking about you know and again it's country to country but we're talking about a relatively unsaturated marketplace that doesn't have that much bias yet uh you know so we're trying stuff out um I you know personally as a marketer it's I find an amazing opportunity you know uh um it's tabla rasa you know you try something out different audience different response uh different learnings um and yeah and and and that that's the beauty I think of um of operating in our uh markets I would agree and I think it's even more fun because of what we have learned over the last 15 years here in Europe like you've got a kind of bird's eye view of how it was and now you can retry it again but with a fresh audience and actually like do a second iteration almost of what works, what doesn't.
SPEAKER_02And obviously the generational change from where we were where we were 10, 15 years ago to where we are now and the and the digital opportunities that exist makes it even more exciting I think. So it's been an absolute pleasure to have you on the podcast and today and listen to all the insight that you've shared on on the African market.
SPEAKER_01I get asked about Africa a lot um I know that it's happening I know that it's kind of emerging but we've never really had anybody on the podcast that can talk quite down to like the localization differences of data I really appreciated being on the podcast and sharing that with everybody in our community today and if I get to have you like why if my AFMA want to get your affiliate program noticed needs leads for your agency network or start to we can help your business get advertising and podcast advertising titles we can thousand digital and affiliate marketers. And it's actually targeted cards regulated top 100 after 15 and both five star reviews of any affiliate marketing podcast more than two and a half thousand cards downloads five five percent podcasts. Connect and goes to show case studies insights and help them find new clients to companies to find new customers and new links find new advertisers and sites out of that find and connect media studies market industry.