You're listening to the Affiliate Marketing Podcast brought to you by Affifirst.com. The chapter and verse of everything you need for running successful affiliate programs and partnership management. This is a podcast for digital and affiliate marketers, publishers, networks, agencies, and Martech providers who operate in affiliate marketing. If you want to launch, scale, and grow successful affiliate marketing programs, you're in the right place. In this podcast, you'll learn how affiliate and partner marketing is changing. Gain behind the mic access to affiliate marketing veterans. Listen and learn tried and tested program management tactics. Discover what's new and trending in affiliate and performance marketing. The truth is, you simply won't find this information anywhere else. Now, here's your award-winning affiliate and performance marketing host, industry veteran, and your affiliate marketing guide and founder of Affiver, Leanne Johnston.
SPEAKER_00Welcome to this week's Affiliate Marketing Podcast with me, your host, Leanne Johnston. And joining me today is the founder of Affiliate.ai. Now I know that AI has been top of priority in anybody that's heard about ChatGPT or has been using ChatGPT. Everybody's looking into AI at the moment, and there is nobody that I could think of other than this gentleman who's joining me today, Rob Beresford, who is the founder of affiliate.ai, to come and talk about the elephant that's been in everybody's room. Rob, it's a pleasure to have you here on this podcast with me today. Thank you so much for being here.
SPEAKER_02Thanks for having me. Yeah, thanks for making this happen.
SPEAKER_00We go way back to the early days of affiliate marketing. That's when we first met when we were we young, you know, sprightly kids, really excited about our careers and everything else. Lots happened since then. So I think what I want to do is start this week's episode off with you just telling us a little bit of your backstory. How did you actually get into the affiliate industry? What did you do before you started affiliate AI and you know what you're doing today?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So I was going to be a publican. I did my undergraduate degree. And those of you who've been in affiliate marketing for a long time know that it was a very pub-based trade. Um, 10 years ago, 15 years ago. Yeah, I was going to be a publican. I then realized that you had to work on godly hours and you didn't actually get to have any fun in the pub, you just worked in the pub until 3 a.m., cleaning it up. And so I started working for Open Table. I then went back and kind of you know did my postgraduate degree. And so I segued from hospitality into online. I went traveling for a year and came back applying for jobs as affiliate marketing in the UK was exploding. And so like DGM had just launched, and Amazon Associates was kind of 18 months old, and like Trade Doubler just landed in the UK, and all of a sudden, like nine out of 10 interviews I had were for affiliate marketing jobs. And you know, I interviewed like again, I was 24. I interviewed CJ and Trade Doubler and DGM and AOL and like all of these big companies, ended up going to work for DGM, which were funny to think about it, the biggest affiliate network in the UK at the time. Yeah, so then you know, worked there for nine months because they saw how much money was flowing into publisher bank accounts and not into my pay packet. And so quickly went to the publisher side. And so I was the first employee, and this shows you how crazy affiliate marketing was back then. My boss was this 19-year-old guy, Chris Kelly, who is now godfather to my kids, but he was one of the top 10 publishers on the affiliate network. He was doing stuff from his BlackBerry in between lessons at Cambridge.
SPEAKER_00I mean, those were the days, right?
SPEAKER_02We're talking, you know, at least six figures of publisher commissions a month flowing through this young guy's bank account. And most of it was all paid search, and you know, there wasn't huge amounts of margins, but it was a lot more margin than I was making in my job. So yeah, joined there, ended up you know, being there for five years, that was acquired. That's now part of LogicSurf. Left there, started a group buying site, that was acquired, and then I was chief revenue officer of my batch codes, still very much thing, and then I was at Button. So then I've just spent my last six years at Button, and Button, for those of you that don't know, you know, kind of really pushed the app tracking and you know link routing agenda in affiliate. Um, think back five years. No one was even trying to track in apps. We weren't really sure if people would transact in apps. You know, Michael Chacone, the founder, was very sure that people would transact in apps, but kind of look back then.
SPEAKER_00There's always gonna be one person that's got a pioneer, so it seems like that's what you've done.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, did six years there, left there just before Christmas with the view of you know starting this company. I had an acorn of an idea, and then I spent you know, January and February in the room in rooms with you know every affiliate marketing CEO, including yourself, that would listen to me and let me pick their brains. And so I put a lot of people, a lot of lunches and a lot of coffees, and just asked a bunch of questions about you know their pain points and what they saw the future and how I could help them. And affiliate.ai is kind of what came out of it.
SPEAKER_00That story is quite interesting for me because actually, if you listen back to what Rob's just explained, he's always been at the forefront of something, which is a great place to be, but it's also kind of scary because you don't really know what's gonna be happening. And I think that's how people are feeling about AI right now. Like I'm seeing content being pushed out about is AI gonna replace affiliate managers? Is AI gonna replace my job as a marketer? You know, like people are starting to get a little bit scared of the unknown, which is why I wanted to bring you on this podcast today, because you've kind of lived in that, you've lived flying by the seat of your pants at an industry that's been growing incredibly fast. Like plan, what plan? You know, you would just kind of run with it. And I think for newer people coming into the industry, you know, we are a little bit more chillaxed about it because we've kind of seen the industry evolve from the early days. We've seen, you know, big companies come in, they get changed, they get bought. But for newbies coming in, they oh, have I picked the right career? Because, you know, now there's all of this AI, you know, what do I do next? kind of thing. So talk to us a little bit about what affiliate AI is going to be doing. Because I know that you you're just about to, or you have launched your first like Wii product that you're gonna be that you have taken from all of those development conversations. So talk a little bit about what it is.
SPEAKER_02So, what came out of those conversations at a high level is that everyone in affiliate marketing is feeling a margin squeeze due to increased manufacturing costs, a highly competitive industry, and largely commoditized technologies. The margin that almost everyone in affiliate marketing is making has crept down over the years. At the same time, we're seeing increased salary costs due to the greatest cost of living crisis since the Great Depression. And so everyone's getting squeezed in the middle. And so productivity is the way out of that. How do we achieve more in the hours we have in our day? And I truly believe that well-built artificial intelligence products for the affiliate industry will help everyone in this industry achieve more in their working day. And so we are building products to superpower the humans that work in affiliate marketing and allow them to get more done by shaving seconds, minutes, hours, days off of the tasks they already do.
SPEAKER_00Let's talk about that because that's a very important thing. Like, I don't think people really understand what affiliate managers do. Like, just in order to pull a report, sometimes you have to pull three, export it out into Excel, configure it so you can actually tell use the data in a meaningful way, and then go make a decision and then go back into the platform again to go and find that affiliate, their contact details and everything else. Now you think you've got a thousand affiliates in a program that you're trying to actively manage and look at. That equates to like seconds in hours and probably days. And I've worked in programs where it takes you three days just to consolidate and reconcile a month end.
SPEAKER_02The worst scenario is you don't do all that stuff because it's hard. Like you you end up the level of effort isn't worth like the juice isn't worth the squeeze, and therefore you don't do that work, and therefore your program doesn't grow or it runs out of, it doesn't have the same opportunities because you don't have to profit margins that you just spoke about before, which we're all getting squeezed to do.
SPEAKER_00So we know a little bit about your history, and we know that you're brave, because that's kind of what your career has been all about is going into the unknown and making it happen. We know why you've launched affiliate AI, and it really is timely. I mean, were you thinking about this a little bit before the whole chat GPT thing exploded, or was it just something that was sort of coincidental? How did you get that acorn of an idea?
SPEAKER_02I've been thinking about the problem set or the rough opportunities for uh some time. And for me, that has been the affiliate industry sits on a boatload of data, and I think we all know that we don't do enough with that data because of the reasons that you spoke to. Sometimes it's hard to get to, sometimes it's hard to patch together. Um also I came to the understanding through a lot of work we did at Button is that if you can build the right products alongside the big networks and agencies, you know, all of the meaningful brands on Earth have a relationship with call it eight parties. And so if you can do five network deals and five agency deals, five contracts, five API integrations, you have access to 60,000 of the world's biggest brands who have data that is underused. And so I've been kicking business concepts around on that. The aforementioned first 19-year-old boss now works at Google AI. So I've been very he was at DeepMind, so I've been kind of very close to what's been happening there. But that business has been built, or all of those kind of first-wave deep learning AI businesses have been built on you know PhD scientists. Average wage at DeepMind is you know over a million dollars a year. And kind of, you know, affiliate marketing doesn't make the margins to support that sort of business. And so while I've been kicking the tires on it, like doing deep learning and affiliate marketing, just there is the take rate isn't there to support that type of business. And so then when what happened was when you know early January OpenAI launched their Chat GPT product to the public with APIs, it fired a rocket up the whole industry. So before that, Google weren't shipping these products publicly. They were talking about them in journals and scientific reviews. They certainly weren't shipping APIs. As soon as OpenAI made this technology publicly available, everyone else had to make it publicly available. So now you have this whole infrastructure of AI tooling, which you can then use to build artificial intelligence companies on top of in a relatively low-cost way without hiring 350 PhDs on a million dollars a year. So, yeah, so I had the idea and the building blocks, and then the tooling came into place as I was talking to the CEOs of affiliate marketing, and it was kind of perfect timing, really.
SPEAKER_00So that was going to be my next question is what was the most common thing that everybody in the room said when you took them out for lunch or their coffee or whatever the case may be? And was it similar or were there completely different viewpoints that were coming at you?
SPEAKER_02Productivity is the the squeeze is the kind of big one. Like we we have seen, well, probably the last five years, realistically, the margin, everyone's margins getting squeezed and it just making it life harder, and which was kind of okay and sustainable until you know inflation ripped through the cost base and the salaries went up, and now everyone's getting squeezed. So like everyone's so for me, yeah, it was a productivity. And affiliate marketing is ripe for it in ways that a lot of I believe we will, and this is why we're starting in affiliate marketing, is because affiliate marketing is a relatively inefficient channel in terms of the human, like the fingers on keyboards that and emails that swap back and forths that need to happen in a way that most of the marketing stack is in a lot more programmatic, scalable place than we are.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but the reason for that is because it's still heavily relationship-based, I believe. It's not like a paid media campaign where you can go do your research, you know, stick in your keywords, create your creative, and the platforms that have been built will kind of execute on that. So I think, and also because you're in affiliate, you're still also working in multiple platforms. Like you could have a program that's running on tune and a program that's running in impact. And you have to manage both of those platforms as an affiliate manager. And there would be reasons why that's happening, you know, the strategy of it, but there's still a lot of this kind of human administration that needs to happen in order to bring these programs together and work. So for me, it's quite interesting that all these people that you've pulled into a room have all said that they're looking to improve the margin squeeze and they're looking to improve the profitability.
SPEAKER_02Or at least maintain the profitability, yeah. Maintain their current profit levels. You know, you booked it quite nicely at the start by you know, we all do like stupid stuff over and over again because the tooling isn't in place. And I do believe the tooling is in place because the take rates and the margins haven't been there. If the margins were much higher, we would have thrown more engineers at these problems and you know, we would have built very different businesses. Yeah, the only person getting a really great deal out of affiliate marketing is the end user who uses the cashback site who actually takes they make way more margin than the publisher or the or the network or the agency.
SPEAKER_00So let me ask you the question then. Why didn't you think about because you come from a sort of publisher background as well, you know, working at the network and even at Button to a certain degree. Why did you not start with helping the publishers first instead of helping the agencies, the networks, and the and the people who have the resources?
SPEAKER_02I've been selling into publishers for five years and I've never got one of them to stick their hands particularly deep into their pockets. This industry is largely been built by brands paying networks and networks paying publishers, publishers, you know, no one has really built a substantial business charging the publisher side of the marketplace.
SPEAKER_00Okay, that's quite interesting because in the gaming industry it's a little bit different. Like they invest heavily in tech and you know, reporting tools and things like that to make them more efficient because they've got so many brands that they need to be working with, and there is no networks in that industry.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, the other piece is that the and we will get to the publisher piece. You know, most of my career's been on the publisher side. The publisher data set is much messier. If I want to do, if I want to like the most brands still sit on a single network. If you're like a really big global brand, you might sit on two, maybe three. Your average publisher is working with 30, 40 networks, and so you need to plug in 40 APIs versus one, and then maintain them and clean that data and kind of do all that stuff. The cleaning of data is you know dramatically easier in a AI world than it was in a more static data world. You know, it's still a long to-do list to maintain relationships, like the technical relationships with all those data sources.
SPEAKER_00With all of this data that you've gathered and all of these projects that you're now starting under affiliate AI, what do you think AI brings to the performance marketing industry? What do you think it's going to start with first? So it's problem solving, solution driving.
SPEAKER_02We will start with data recall. So our first product, Instant Assistant, allows you to, through the medium of Teams or Slack, whatever your kind of chat bot of choices internally, ask for whatever data you need in your own natural language. And so that starts with how do we do yesterday versus last Thursday? How did we do in March versus February? How do we do in March versus last February? Give me my top 10 publishers on mobile over the last seven days, give me my top publishers who have sold flights to Madrid in the last 30 days, pull me my QBR, and that effectively allows through natural language, we can then pull that data in and present that data back to you in terms of a table or a CSV back within Teams or Slack in a near instant.
SPEAKER_00And that's gonna be irrelevant of whatever platform you're working in, right? Because this technology is gonna sit on top of your own internal reporting of where you've got it in the databases and then present it back to you. So that's a bit of a game changer because I know that's gonna save a lot of time. Okay. I mean, reporting is probably one of the biggest fags that a an affiliate manager has and has to faff around with at the end of the month or at the end of the week, especially in the e-commerce space where you have to like validate sales and do all of that kind of stuff. So, what about things like fraud and compliance, especially for the more difficult um industries like gaming or insurance or you know the finance piece? Is there a way that you see that AI is going to come into that space as well?
SPEAKER_02I think that's you know, the modeling out of fraud, like what's weird is that the technology that allows that to happen is not new technology. Like there is nothing that happened, there's nothing technically so the piece that we're building, we couldn't have built nine months ago. We couldn't have built five months ago, and this is now suddenly possible with this new tooling set. The tooling set needed to programmatically validate sales has existed for three years. Pulling out data, having two data sets, your sales that have been validated, and your sales that got rejected because of fraud, and then building a predictive model against those two data sets is pretty old technology in terms of the grand scheme of things. And you know, going in and writing a Python model against those two data sets and then making suggestions on which sales to validate and which sales to decline is something that you know we may build at some point, but I don't understand why no one's done it yet. We're building on fresh technologies, things that couldn't have happened six months ago. And these type of problem statements are new problem statements and they're not new technologies that are fixing them.
SPEAKER_00The other thing, as well, is also, you know, I mean, the first place that I would want to start with AI is, you know, go intelligently find me all of the influencers that have the right amount of users, the right amount of engagement, that speak about products that are similar to mine. Bring me that list. Because, you know, recruitment is always a problem for kind of immature programs, and that's time consuming. All of that data analysis and collection and outreach. So, is that something that's on your radar?
SPEAKER_02It is. So you have to the data in AI and kind of you know, we've seen it with OpenAI and the problems in Italy and Spain, and you know, them and you know, Musk already threatening to sue them for ripping data sets. Like you do have to think about these problems in an intelligent way where you know a lot of the big financial institutions. Institutions who do modeling and modeling is their game, insurance is effectively a modeling business. Most of them have banned access to open AI on site because they're so scared that employees are going to copy and paste sensitive data into OpenAI. You no longer own that data, you've given that data to them to be trained on in the future. And you know, affiliate marketing has the same problems. You have to think through how to use these technologies without exposing your data into the monolithic large language model that is now OpenAI. And we've seen with plugins is the kind of the first scenario where you can start pulling live data streams. But yeah, I do believe that type of stuff is the future where we start, you know, you train this model over a period of time, and then you allow it to kind of query new data sets. You know, here are my products, crawl this data source to tell me who is talking about those products, and then match them with people that have profiles within my affiliate network. I think there's stuff like that, which you could do in time.
SPEAKER_00You know, usually you'd have a BI team that's sitting in the background and you stick a ticket into JIRA and you wait for a week and then you get that data, but then you've forgotten why you asked for it in the first place. It's kind of like a media, it's a media, you know, everything's becoming faster. And making those split-second decisions is also going to help you manage your affiliates because they're also in the moment. Like affiliates work in the moment. They're like, oh, I see this traffic source coming in. I need to find this product to match this traffic source, and you're trying to make that extra buck. And sometimes that is the problem, is that we just can't work fast enough to get the stuff done. So I see that changing the way that we relationship manage affiliates too. Have you seen any good use cases in AI? Obviously, because you've been immersed in it now, at least for the last three months, like solidly. Have you seen any other companies doing anything interesting with AI that's true?
SPEAKER_02There's a lot of you know, much older in like timescale points of view of companies that are built on machine learning and kind of a subset of AI. So like a lot of the publisher discovery and even you know, most I think most big companies will have a version of AI at their core, but in terms of generative, I haven't seen anyone else. A lot of the you know, in fact, like the publisher end is super interesting in terms of content creation. I saw one of the one of the guys that runs you know one of the big social content publishers, and they've effectively given all of their content teams paid Chat GPT subscriptions, and effectively they can 10x their content output.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but if you think about it realistically, and I'd love to hear your opinion on this, because I do get asked this a lot, is because I generate a lot of content, but all of my content is generated by me, a human. Okay, so I know my subject matter. However, I could 10x my content using ChatGPT, but A, it wouldn't be authentic because it would be machine learned and it would be repetitive, which means that the quality is going to go down and it means that it's going to become more difficult to get seen and heard because everybody's pushing 10 times more. So I'm not sure that's such a good idea. Like, I don't what are your thoughts on that?
SPEAKER_02It depends on your audience. So you are writing very specific thought leadership B2B high-quality content. If you are running a series of SEO websites that want to crank out 50 articles about the top 10 laptop bags, like it's like it's an SEO play, and you know, I do believe that the quality of results on Google have already diminished and are gonna dramatically diminish over the coming months. As you know, I could write a thousand articles today on a publisher matter for almost zero marginal costs, and the and then you know, plug in some backlinks, and the internet is already awash with that. And you know, fair play to those hustlers, the publishers cranking that out. Is it content that I'm gonna bookmark and go back to and re-engage with? No. Do they have a window of time where they can gain Google search algorithms and Facebook algorithms? Almost certainly.
SPEAKER_00But I think Google's gonna crack down on that anyway. I mean, there is talk of them looking at all of that anyway. So that could change the way that we do SEO. I mean, all of this stuff, and this is the beauty of working in affiliate marketing, to be fair. So, those of you that are listening in that haven't been around as long as what Rob and I have, everything changes all the time. And things like this that come into the market that are new technology, new ways of working, new ways of generating content, they are all going to have an impact in terms of what the future of the web looks like. You know, when people talking about Web3, like this is encompassed in Web3 because we're gonna change the way that SEO gets ranked. You know, uh Google's gonna get smarter and see what isn't you know human-generated content.
SPEAKER_02It's relatively easy to spot a piece of content that's been produced by a large language model. Like in terms of if you like ran through algorithms, because basically all the LL is doing is suggesting the next word with the highest probability to it's it doesn't actually talk like a normal human being, and so it's almost you know when they've caught that guy cheating on chess.com because he made too many perfect moves, and like humans don't write in like a perfect, predictable way, and so if the content is in too predictable a format, you know, it's relatively easy for machines to spot that.
SPEAKER_00Essentially, you're still gonna need to have humans though, because we will need to make the judgment call on when we use AI for things like a review of a you know coffee cup, for example, or when we use a human to write something that's from an opinion perspective.
SPEAKER_02Have you written a great piece of content and asked GPT-4 for feedback on that content? It does a phenomenal job at spotting your typos, spotting your grammar issues, like in a way that before I would write my own content and then spend half an hour like proofreading it and editing it. But now the proofreading process is 30 seconds because JetGPT can do it for me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, like news sites and things like that, like journals can use it as a second, you know, set up.
SPEAKER_02They're like, Yeah, you spell this wrong. You'll maybe change your heading here. And again, for me, this isn't about you know swapping the humans out, it's about supercharging the humans and shaving five minutes of 20 tasks a day. That's half a day. Like it's incredible. Our parents used to do similar jobs without you know laptops and without computers, and like it didn't reduce the need for humans, it just a thousand X for what we could achieve in our working day. And I think AI will work in the same way that the personal computer did.
SPEAKER_00That was the other one sort of big question that I wanted to ask you because you've been around so long and I keep popping on about that, but it does make a difference. The historical value of the affiliate industry does make a difference in terms of how you view the future. What do you think the affiliate marketing ecosystem is going to look like? Because from my perspective, coming from outside of the e-commerce space and getting into the e-commerce space again 10 years later, it hasn't changed much compared to some of the other industries that I've worked in where it has changed dramatically. And my question is always you know, what's going to happen with all of the networks as brands now have tools like AI, Publisher Discovery, you know, Cake and Tune and all of these tracking platforms, where's the value add going to come in? And are these brands going to want to, you know, cyclically move back in-house and use all of these wonderful tools that are being created? Or do you just think that the marketplace is just going to keep growing? Everybody's just going to keep doing their thing and growing organically?
SPEAKER_02That's a great question. Like honestly, we won't know for a while. It took us, if we look back through you know, the network PC, it probably took us five, ten years to get any real understanding of what the tool was. And that, you know, the internet was what a decade later. Same with the mobile. And I, you know, I've talked about this before, but when the app store first launched, the big apps were the beer app and the fart machine app, and like Flappy Birds. And you look back, so now you have you know, the killer apps are like Deliveroo and you know, Google Maps, where you can actually use all the information that this supercomputer in your pocket allows you to do. You know, the first way, like January and February, there were people shipping a whole bunch of novelty AI apps, and then you know the automated sales wave always comes through after that because that's kind of where the easy money is. But I do believe it'll take us time to really understand where the killer apps are and where the value and how that you know how that manifests itself in the affiliate industry. I couldn't tell you. I'm hoping we pay less walking talking supercomputers to click drop downs in dashboards, which is effectively what we pay our junior staff members to do. And I know they're junior, but there's still walking-talking supercomputers that shouldn't be doing dumb stuff over and over again.
SPEAKER_00Well, that creates a bit of a problem, I think, because how do you learn affiliate marketing? You learn it on the job. If you've got tools that are doing it for you, you're never really going to learn the basic principles because you've got the shortcut. So I think constant education in this industry is important. And I would recommend that everybody starts kind of getting their head around AI now, even though it might only affect us in five, 10 years' time. But it's part of your learning process, it's part of your journey as you know an affiliate practitioner, whether you're publisher side, network side, agency side, you need to be asking these questions and you need to be talking to people like you who are kind of running in the forefront and figuring it out. Because, like you said, there is no crystal ball in terms of how AI is going to impact us.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And like the most incredible thing about AI is you know, it's it GPT-4 can write code already. And so what effectively happens is that anyone can write English becomes the next coding language, and then anyone can write code. And so if you start to learn some very basic coding knowledge, then those of us, and I you know, I'm not super technical myself, but I can now build iOS apps and I can write Python, I can have the idea and ask GPT4 to write the Python for me. And then as an affiliate manager, if you're the person in the team that can write SQL or write Python, you're already at the top of the like you're like so impressive at that point. One afternoon and a premium chat GPT license, you're already that person.
SPEAKER_00Well, it's funny you should mention Python. My 10-year-old son has been invited to a coding club at school, and they are teaching them how to do Python. And I'm pretty sure that they're going to be using Chat GPT to show them how to actually create Python using language as well. Of course, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02I'm checking like in the same way that I check my LinkedIn posts for grammatical errors, you can use Chat GPT to check your Python for coding errors. Yeah, it just means you can achieve a thousand times more in your working day than you did before. And why would you ever go?
SPEAKER_00And what's that going to happen? What's that going to lead to? That's my next question. Is what how is that going to affect strategy? How's that going to affect the timing of campaigns? You know, are you going to be able to get ahead of like, you know, like if a news piece drops today, well, you know, usually it would take us two to three weeks to like hop on the back of that, get the creative, do now you can actually do it like within 48 hours. And what you know, how does that impact your bottom line? So really start thinking about it and start getting your head around what the use cases are and stop worrying about whether I'm gonna still have my job in five years' time because I think just use it.
SPEAKER_02Just like go in. Um you can use OpenII for free, but like the premium version is 20 bucks a month. And I guarantee you, you could finish work by noon every day if you worked out how to use ChatGPT properly. That's my pitch. And you know, anyone that's ever worked closely with me or for me, I've always thought about hit your numbers and take a nap. Do the things that matter, do the things that move the needle and then get on with something else. Don't do dumb stuff over and over again because you have to. And ChatGPT and you know, all of these AI products will dramatically increase what you can achieve before your lunch break.
SPEAKER_00Keep us in the loop because we're looking forward to your AI product coming to market. And, you know, when it is, maybe we could get you back onto the podcast to talk about how to use it intelligently. Thanks very much for being on the podcast today and just kind of talking about that elephant in the room, you know, where everybody's going, is my job safe? Yes, your job is safe, and Rob has just told you why.
SPEAKER_02And your job's gonna be so much better. You're gonna have all of that crap that you hate doing on a daily basis. You're not gonna have to do it anymore. But you could just do the fun, strategic, thoughtful stuff. Exactly.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, absolutely. Rob, thank you so much for being on the podcast today and sharing what's happening at affiliate.ai.
SPEAKER_02Thanks, yeah. Thanks for having me.
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