You're listening to the Affiliate Marketing Podcast brought to you by affiversemedia.com. The chapter and verse of everything you need to know about running a successful affiliate program for your business. This is a podcast for digital and affiliate marketers, publishers, networks, agencies, and ma tech providers who operate, support, or manage affiliate marketing programs around the globe. If you want to launch, scale, and grow a successful affiliate marketing program, you're in the right place. In this podcast, you'll learn how affiliate and partner marketing is constantly changing, and tune in to industry experts who are getting behind our mic to share tactical insights and practical knowledge to help your affiliate program grow. Here you'll discover what's new and trending in affiliate and performance marketing, how to run your affiliate program successfully, and gain industry insights from experts and practitioners from around the globe. The truth is, you simply won't find this information anywhere else. Now here's your award-winning affiliate and performance marketing host, an industry veteran, your affiliate marketing guide and the founder of Affiverse, Leanne Johnston.
SPEAKER_02I've got Leandro joining me from Fuel. He's the founder of Fuel, which is a blockchain technology that is being built to track affiliate performance marketing. So I'm super excited to talk to you, Leandra. How are you doing today?
SPEAKER_01I'm doing great. Thanks, Leanne, for having me and very excited to chat with you.
SPEAKER_02So am I, because I'm gonna pick your brains about everything that's happening in the kind of blockchain metaverse web 3 world. So let's get started this week by just giving a little bit of a background as to what Fuel is, what your background is, and how you came into the affiliate industry and what led you to this podcast ending today.
SPEAKER_01For sure. So yeah, brief background about myself. I started my career back in 2014 working in mobile marketing for the XPD of Latin America. And I think back then my whole focus was on building BPC campaigns across Latam and growing for the company. Then after that, I co-founded my first company, which is now today the largest secondhand electronics marketplace in Latin America. So we grew the company from four Argentinians to 460 people in Brazil. So we moved countries. And yeah, that was a company that we were starting a new category in Brazil, which was mostly about second-hand refer-rich smartphones and so forth. And yeah, and also I co-founded a growth marketing agency in Latin America before that is now regarded by Google as one of the top five in PPC and growth. And yeah, and then I would say that my journey in crypto started in 2014. So I'm from Argentina. I think from early on, I experienced a very unstable economy, political situation. So when I first heard about Bitcoin in 2014, I think it made sense for me to invest in an asset that would hedge me from my own country's political and economical situations. But I would say that it was not until 2019, 2020, well 2019, that I was seeing like more DeFi, decentralized finance protocols and applications being built on top of the blockchain, NFTs, gaming projects that I realized that now was the moment for me to come in full-time and with my background in marketing, start building for mass adoption of crypto and web 3.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so let's take a step back and talk a little bit about what Fuel is, who it's for, and what it actually does.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so Fuel is an affiliate marketing protocol that helps crypto projects partner with influencers and publishers and just pay for performance. We're leveraging all the benefits of blockchain technology and mixing those with affiliate marketing and bringing it to Web3. And we're building Fuel as a protocol, which that means is that we're building an open source software and platform for then other affiliate networks come in, leverage all this infrastructure, and start also working on blockchain affiliate programs. Same for publishers, they can come in and they can be part of this ecosystem.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so I love that. And we're gonna talk a lot about that because a lot of people don't understand the blockchain. They're still a little bit wary about Web3. They know it's coming, but they don't really know what it is, and they don't really know how it's gonna be practically applied to them. So can you dumb it down for us and just explain where a retail brand, say for example, HM or something, or any brand, pick any brand. I'm not affiliated to any brand. But I've now got a really integrated e-commerce web shop platform. I'm integrated with a network. I'm either managing it in-house using a technical solution, a tracking solution, or I'm on an actual affiliate network, CJ, whichever one it is. What do I have to do now as I'm looking forward to Web3? Because there's lots of factions that we need to think about. There's the blockchain itself in terms of the smart contracts and the transparency. And I know that you can talk a little bit about what that means. But there's also the impact of what other platforms do I need to be able to track, like sandbox, rubber, metaverse, everything else that's going on around the web. So can you start at the beginning and just tell us what blockchain means for affiliate marketing and what do I need to do right now as an e-commerce or even gambling client for that matter, to actually get myself from where I am today with web two to web three?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, for sure. So I think like my view about like when blockchain will actually be mainstream is when people don't actually need to know what is blockchain. I think it's great that marketers, like people that are into e-commerce or brands in general, they're now thinking and educating themselves about like Web3, blockchain, what are the main benefits for this technology. But I think you'll actually hit mainstream when people that are using it don't know that they're actually interacting with a blockchain. And a blockchain, at the end of the day, is a public database. Okay? It's as simple as that. But I think, like, for example, when I go into my email and I just send a message, I don't really know what's going on in the background. But there's a protocol behind it, it's a protocol for email that basically defines how the message is encrypted and displayed in different clients and so forth. Same when we connect with the internet, there's a TCP IP protocol that enables for the internet. And I think, I mean, I'm 31 years old, but I think very like more than 30 years ago, people were debating about like the internet. And I think there's lots of nuances on technology and everything, but actually when it hits to mainstream, when it's actually adopted, like you don't actually need to think about what's going on in the background, it just simply works. And I think blockchain can add lots of values because of its public and decentralized nature. And what that means is that imagine if you're a brand, you have your own Shopify store, all those transactions they go into a database that is private to the brand. So nobody can see what's actually going on those transactional levels.
SPEAKER_02So the publisher sees I made$100 worth of commission of five clients. That's pretty much all that they see. But what they don't see is that there were actually 10 clients that converted, but five did a charge back or something. That's what you mean.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So tying it up to affiliate marketing, basically, yeah, like you know that there was a pixel that got fired on the thank you page. So you have to wait probably until 30 days after, even 90 days after, for the brand to tell you, okay, out of those 10 transactions, actually four went through. And the reason for that is because the other six they got charged back, or there were cancellations, returns. And you, as a publisher or an affiliate, you just need to trust that because there's no way that you can actually go and see what actually took place.
SPEAKER_02You only see what the brand is showing you and tracking you in the actual tracking solution that sits between you and the brand.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. So you can verify that if the brand were to use blockchain as a public database. The other thing that's really important about blockchains is composability. So you touch a little bit about the sandbox. Do I need to track the sandbox? Do I need to track other metaverses? And the truth is that no. And the reason for that is because all of these companies or metaverses, they're being built on top of a blockchain. What that means is that all the assets that you have on a metaverse, you could, for example, you can transfer them to another metaverse, or you can use it on another metaverse, for example. So your integration would be with the blockchain itself, not with the actual client or the front end or the application that you use to interact with that blockchain that sits beneath that metaverse.
SPEAKER_02So what that means is just so that I understand, because I mean I'm really trying to get like my head around blockchain over 3.0 because it's important, it's the next iteration of where we're going to get to in terms of online. What that means is that it could actually simplify how many like platform solutions, integrations you need to make from your front-end shop to reporting and back-end and providing information to the partners that are sending you traffic, which could effectively also mean that it'll improve tracking and latency because we do see there's always a disparity between what you're recording, what your Google Analytics is recording, what your affiliate platform is recording, what your affiliate software is recording. Everybody's always got a different number and there's 20% attrition rate, if not more, we don't even know. So this could really solve the problem of being lost between all of these different places that the customer has to touch with pixels and cookies and everything else, which isn't really accurate. So to me, that's the big idea here is like how do we get more accurate with the money that we spend and make sure that the money that we are spending is going in all the right places to reach the right customers. That's the ultimate like utopia.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So again, like all this transaction information is now public and it settles on chain, on the blockchain. Like it's it you can actually see that a transaction is pending, somebody's doing a transaction, and then that transaction is settled, it's approved. So that's a definite state. So in a matter of seconds, you can see that transaction went through or not, and then everybody can look at the same information. Like with fuel, for example, when you are using like an affiliate network or Google Ads, you usually need to implement like conversion tracking, right? And it usually involves some type of Pixel or like API connection. With a blockchain, you just input like a smart contract address, which means let's say it's like your public database address. And you input like what is the event that happens on that transaction for it to be marked as a purchase, for example. And then as simple as that, you can pull out like all these commercial events. You don't need to do any actual development because all that information, again, is public and it's accessible to anyone.
SPEAKER_02So what about like triggers? So for example, we've got quite complex commercialization triggers. So in the gaming industry, for example, we'd want to pay a conversion, a cost per lead, or a CPA based on whether a customer has made a purchase and wagered and actually played that purchase money through. In the e-commerce space, we might want to pay not on 60 days, but actually when the transaction happens. There's lots of different reasons and use cases for why blockchain makes more sense. But just understanding the practical application of that is that one, it's gonna kind of reduce latency on tracking and make things more accurate. Two, it's gonna make things more immediate because you can actually track where that sale is. So even for E2B SAS companies, for example, where their sale pipeline is normally quite long, you refer a customer and you wait sometimes 90 days to see if that customer ever converted because the sales process is so long. Does this mean that the blockchain would actually give you that visibility? You could actually put the events in as sale qualified lead, marketing qualified lead, business development demo done, and then sale is made. And could you actually in commercialize each step? Like down to say for a marketing qualified lead, we're only gonna pay 10 pounds. For a demo lead, we'll pay 40, and for a sale made, we'll pay 150.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02Is that what you're saying?
SPEAKER_01Okay. Yes.
SPEAKER_02This is super exciting for me.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I think there are three things that I want like everybody listening to this like to take home and think about is that like why blockchain could be such a breakthrough in affiliate marketing and compared to web 2 affiliate marketing. So the first one is that, you know, as I was mentioning, like transactions on the blockchain, they settle in a matter of seconds, and these are definite transactions. What I in my experience, like affiliates, when they engage on an affiliate program, they usually get paid 90 days after the transaction takes place. And the reason for that is because there are cancellations, there are returns, there are chargebacks. So that doesn't happen in crypto today. Actually, chargebacks don't happen because in order for you to make a transaction on the blockchain, you need to have the funds available. So I think that as merchants start incorporating, I know Fi is now connected with Coinbase, for example. So as these merchants start adopting like crypto as a payment gateway, they'll they will enjoy less chargeback fees and then those usually it's less expensive. So I think as there's more of that on blockchain component, it will be easier to sell transactions faster. So that means that publishers will get paid faster in almost real time. That will be possible. The second thing is around transparency. So again, touching back to the public database idea. So I know I follow your podcast and I know you talk a lot about the partnership economy, and it's such a powerful term, and I love that. So in any type of partnership, you really want to be transparent, you want everybody to be on the same page, have the same information, because at the end of the day, it's all about a common goal. And the common goal is to grow the program, bring more transactions. And now I think it's really powerful that both affiliates and merchants, advertisers are looking at the same data. So there are no energy being lost on tracking, or hey, like why is this conversion rate so low? We're all looking at the same data, we're all pulling to the same side. So that's the second piece. So the third idea is actually that now, through a blockchain, you can also see all the actions that a user took interacting with the advertiser. Okay, so what that means is that you can now pay a commission for the lifetime value that a user is bringing. So let's say that I'm a brand, I'm a B2B brand, or I'm a B2C brand, and I want to say, hey, if you bring me users that convert into this event, I'm gonna pay you for 10% for the lifetime value that this user generates to us. You can do it because all of these actions for that user are gonna be recorded on this public database that is a blockchain. So that is super powerful. That is something that it's a novelty. We're very excited to bring that to affiliate marketing.
SPEAKER_02Well, that has always been a bit of a surprise for me because in e-commerce it's normally the average basket value for a cookie period of 30, 60, 90 days, and then that's it. You don't earn any money off that customer because the e-commerce platform is saying I'm keeping that customer engaged with all of my remarketing and everything else. But what if you could tell? And Google Analytics 4 is now going to tell you when a customer is net new to you and where that customer has come from. Because there has been no data to actually show, or not a lot of data, to show that this is a customer that was new to you that didn't touch through any of your other attribution, like modeling paid-for media channels. So I think this could also revolutionize the way in terms of how money is apportioned across different segments of your marketing. So if you know that partner referrals are sending you net new customers, you're gonna want to spend more of your paid budget into that space, which will maybe change the way that we commercialise affiliates as well. Because I would want to be paying affiliates that are bringing me net new customers that haven't been touched by any of my other spend a little bit more because I know that I'm gonna get them for the first time, I'm gonna retain them longer. And right now, affiliates are getting a bit of a raw deal because they only get that first 90 days of purchase history in most cases. And this is just one example, but I think that does sound very interesting and exciting to me. So if I was a publisher listening to this, like how many publishers out there are actually looking at getting into the blockchain so they can track their customers? Because the other thing, and you did mention your age, so you did say that you're in your 30s, I'm in my forties, you're in your 30s, and my understanding of the internet and the way that I use it is actually very different, even though we're only like eight years apart. So for me, it's not that I want to tell everybody my age, but it is a generational thing that you need to be thinking about as well, because every year, every one of your clients is getting older and new clients are coming in and they're younger and they want to interact and have the freedom to pay by crypto if that's where they've got their funds. And also in different countries, as you said. And and one of the things that I did want to touch on when you were talking about Argentina and where you grew up, Latin America is a huge adopter of cryptocurrency. Like I'm seeing some serious numbers when I look at like chain analysis and other places where you can look at data, where Latin America is just like spearheading ahead, and it's as a result of the fact of the infrastructure instabilities that are happening. So for people that are running global affiliate programs or products that are being shipped around the world, like you really do kind of need to be looking at this stuff because fiat is up and down. I was in Cape Town a couple of weeks ago, meeting a whole bunch of people in the affiliate world there, and they've even got infrastructure issues with electricity. And then I found out that there was a company that can actually, you can buy a solar panel, sell your coin that you make off of the energy that is put onto the blockchain, and use that money to cash out to go buy your food if you want to. There's just so much innovation that's happening in this space already with utilities and things that you wouldn't even think about. And I actually ended up phoning my dad and said, get some solar panels on your roof because you can actually monetize your roof while you're sleeping. Like this is the power that Web3 will have in future. And I know we're talking like crazy pie in the sky stuff, but people are already investigating this right now. So to me, it's exciting and it's just about helping everybody to understand what the context is, which you've explained, the three things, but also the practical application and what you need to be doing to get prepared for that. So let's talk a little bit about the preparation stuff. So you've undertaken to develop the platform. You've said that you think now is the right time. Five years ago there were people looking at it as well, but it just wasn't the right time. What do you think is going to lead that at that mass adoption? Is it the fact that cryptocurrency needs to be more stabilized and integrated into e-commerce platforms? And then the second stage would be the tracking, or do you think that it's happening right now? What are you doing at fuel to actually get brands involved right now?
SPEAKER_01That's a really good question. I think adoption will come a lot with regulation, unfortunately.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's gonna slow it down.
SPEAKER_01I mean, I think we're actually being slowed down by regulation in general. I think there's not a lot of clarity on the rules. So I think there's lots of brands that are really excited about blockchain, but they haven't went full in because they still don't know the plain rules.
SPEAKER_02So who has to drive that? Is it kind of like how the affiliate marketing industry was 20 years ago, where we all sat around a table and went, okay, this is gonna be what our best practices are? Like who is it the customer that's driving that? Is it the regulatory bodies, the financial regulatory bodies in each country that has to drive that? Or can it actually be the consumer themselves? How do you think that's gonna play out?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so I I think there's lots of manifestations of customers or consumers that are leaning to crypto because, again, like they they understand the value of digital money, digital assets. Um you're talking about generational changes. And I look at my nieces and they are playing Roblox or other metaverse games, and for them it's just like so natural to be like interacting, engaging with their friends on a virtual environment. I guess also the same as we used to buy like CDs, now we listen on Spotify, like why I carry with CDs or why I carry lots of books when I can add my Kindle. I think money to some extent, like digital money, also could be an analogy for like bills or maybe having like funds locked into US bank or UK bank, like when you can actually transfer it to anywhere. But yeah, I think regulation is gonna play a really important role here. I think there'll be jurisdictions or countries that will be favoring crypto, others are gonna be adopted crypto.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01But yeah, I think that's gonna be like a huge thing, and hopefully this year we'll see lots of definitions around that.
SPEAKER_02So you really do need to actually just start reading and listening and tuning in and actually just being aware. That's kind of the main first step to kind of elevating and figuring out what's the next step. But what are some of the essential things that brands you currently work with need to get done first before they step in? Are there technical integrations that need to happen? Are they or does it just all link together? So talk through the practicalities of that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so the technical integrations are like very simple. So like we integrate on the website part, like on the front end, we use like something very similar to an SDK or to a Pixel. So that way we can track how different users land to the advertisers' website to different tracking links, so we can attribute those to the right affiliate. And then for the conversion portion of it, as I was mentioning, it's as easy as having a smart contract address, which is like this public database address that these different merchants or advertisers have. And then we are able to now start reading from this public database all the events that occur. So what advertising Or crypto projects do, they tell us, okay, this is a specific event that I want to reward affiliates for bringing users. So we start listening and detecting those events. We're mostly working with crypto companies. So like they already have their smart contract going on, they're already on the blockchain. But I think as there's more adoption of crypto payments in more like e-commerce or traditional merchants, we would also be able to tap more into that market.
SPEAKER_02You mentioned that Shopify is already tapped into Coinbase, isn't it?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's not like widely adopted. So I think as it gets more widely adopted, there will be more and more opportunities there. But I think a lot of this will be driven by publishers because if you think if you're a publisher, you're an international publisher, you don't pay any like foreign exchange fees to bring your capital. It's like digital currency. You don't have to wait 90 days to get paid. Transactions are in almost real time. So that's great. You get full transparency of what's actually going on the transactional level. And then last but not least, I think for the very first time, you're now able to get like a an upside on the value that you're bringing to an advertiser.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so what about how you use this public data competitively? Because everybody is worried about GDPR, everybody's worried about because essentially what you could end up seeing is this customer has actually spent this much at my competitor. So how do I get them to spend more at me? Like how what about that kind of play on the data that is available and transparent for everybody to see?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Data's available, data is public. It's anonymous though. So like you can't actually see who is behind, except that person wants to publicly say, This is my wallet address, these are all my transactions. But yeah, so that like unlocks another game. Would be, for example, you as a merchant or sorry, an affiliate with your affiliate program, you could say, hey, I'm actually gonna pay out more commissions if you're bringing me users that have been interacting with my competitors, but they never interacted with me before. So that's something that now we can enable through the blockchain.
SPEAKER_02Now that's interesting because I'm pretty sure that we can't get that data available right now in programs. Or it would be very difficult to try and ascertain that kind of information. And this is where it gets tactical because they say out of every dollar spent on advertising or branding or anything else to reach your target customer, maybe only 26 cents is efficient. Like it's actually reaching the customer that you want to see. Everything else is just like adding to that journey at that awareness stage and everything else. And we don't know how accurate that is. And it's always been the conversation around attribution modeling, which most people still don't understand today. But, you know, first click, last click, percentages, how do you break that down? Nobody's ever been able to answer that conundrum. But actually, if we did all move on to blockchain in the future and there was all of this transparency, maybe it would give a lot of insight into where money should be spent online to actually go and connect with the right customer. And it would also help publishers to add value in other parts of that user journey because you touched on it and said, I'm gonna pay you to activate customers that are already translated transacting with my consumer, but I'm also gonna pay you to bring me customers that have never been to me before. And you could differentiate the value of that customer, and you can actually get really tactical about what the outcomes are that you want your partners to deliver within your program.
SPEAKER_01100%. Yeah, and uh another cool thing is that like everything is verifiable by this public database. So you can actually see and trace back, okay, was this a user that was transacting with another competitor and actually transacted? Yes.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so this is a commission that you should But don't you think that's going to make us into more innovative marketers? Because right now the quickest and easiest way to compete is to always price much or price discount or offer more or whatever the case may be. And now with all of this data, you'd actually be able to become more innovative in terms of the triggers and the mechanics that you can use to actually bring customers to you, the right kinds of customers to you.
SPEAKER_01100%. Like some of the projects that we're working with, for example, they are decentralized finance, like trading projects. And we see conversion goals that are, for example, perform this transaction. Another one is perform this transaction and hold this position for 30 days. Another conversion is and hold it, perform the transaction and hold it for another 60 days, 90 days. So there's kind of like a rate card of commissions now. So like projects are getting really creative on how they want to place the incentives for affiliates to drive the right type of actions with end users. And also rewarding the end user as well. Because again, now what you can do is you can also provide a commission to the affiliate that is bringing the user, but you could also start like a workflow or like a process in which you are giving extra incentives to the end user. So now the end user actually has a really good reason why to maybe engage with an affiliate and not doing directly. Because they can also get like an extra reward for that.
SPEAKER_02Well, we've been saying for many years that publishers need to focus not just on driving traffic from one place to another, but actually building businesses around providing services or products or user experiences or additional things that the brand can't offer directly. So really plug in the gap and making that journey and interaction as meaningful as possible for the customer because the customer should always be the center of your universe. And if you're an affiliate manager listening to this, the affiliate should always be the center of your universe or partner, referring partner or influencer or whatever the person is that you're working with. So we know that blockchain is gonna kind of revolutionize things in a lot of different ways that we've discussed on this podcast. But what do you think the future of affiliate marketing looks like? Knowing where you've come from and how you've entered into the industry, and thinking about what the future potential could be. Like, do you think that the industry is gonna continue to grow? Do you think that the big BMyths that operate in this space already need to adopt and adapt? Or do you think that it'll just be a completely separate, like you'd have your web 2 stuff happening over here, and you'd build something else separately for web 3 and virtual reality and everything else that's going on over here? Are they gonna be side by side? What do you think the future looks like?
SPEAKER_01No, I'm very excited about affiliate marketing. I think it's gonna keep growing. I we see in web 2 like these huge Google ads, Facebook ads, like they're oversaturated. As more and more companies are moving online, of course, these are now too many business models now unusable because you can't pay the CPCs. You're competing for the same space with other brands that have more opportunity to sell more products so they can have a higher lifetime value for those users and they're willing to pay more. So I definitely think affiliate is gonna be like a channel that's gonna be like growing a lot over the next years. And I think the future of affiliate marketing is on the blockchain. It will be on the blockchain because transparency is gonna be there, there are gonna be faster payouts of publishers, publishers that are overseas or that are international. Again, they will enjoy no foreign exchange trading fees. So I think that the benefits that blockchain can bring are very clear, and I think blockchain is gonna be the superpower for affiliate to finally take off in really big time now.
SPEAKER_02There's a model here for both the brands and also the publishers to actually start investing time and energy and understanding how this structure will work for them. How about AI? Is that gonna feed into like blockchain and some of the stuff that you're building now, or is that still too early to kind of see if that integrates?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so I mean we're not focused on AI. I think AI has already been changing a lot the way that affiliates or influencers or publishers create content. And I think we're going to continue to see a lot of that, and I'm very excited for that. But yeah, like it's not our focus right now.
SPEAKER_02Thank you so much for being on this podcast and sharing some of the things that could actually end up becoming true in my lifetime as I continue my career in affiliate marketing. I'm very excited about what the future of blockchain can actually potentially do, as we've discussed on this podcast today. And it's been an absolute pleasure to have you on here. And guys, watch out for fuel. It's coming in a couple of months, the beta test. If you want to find out more, you can get in touch with Leandro. We'll put a link on this blog transcribe. But keep learning and always be looking at what's coming in the future because it is going to come fast, I think.
SPEAKER_01Awesome. Thank you so much again, Leanne, for having me. It was great. And yeah, happy to come at a later time, tell you about our updates. Um, yeah, if anybody has any questions, please hit me up on Twitter. I'm at IMLO C H A. That's my handle, and I'm happy to chat more about Web3 and affiliate marketing. Thanks.
SPEAKER_02Okay, Lopcha. Thank you so much. Take care.
SPEAKER_00This podcast is brought to you by AMP. The Affiliate Manager Performance Program is designed for ambitious affiliate program managers working at brands, agencies, or affiliate networks that are looking to grow and scale their affiliate programs and partner performances. We've already helped hundreds of affiliate program managers from a range of industries get the best out of their affiliate partnerships and build consistent sales within their affiliate programs. With just one hour per week over a 12-week period, this program is unlike any other. You'll learn proven tactics, tested strategies, and access decades of experience with industry veterans who have launched, scaled, and grown multi-million dollar affiliate programs around the world. Book your seat on our next cohort by visiting our website, affiverse.com, and hit the training menu. From there, you can register your interest for our next cohort launch or contact our sales team to find out more at www.affi-se.com. That's a wrap for this week's affiliate marketing podcast. If you're loving what we're putting down, why not head over to Apple ITs and give us a five-star review? Make sure to subscribe to our podcast and our YouTube channel so you never miss another insightful episode or one of our free webinars ever again. Tune in next week for more digital affiliate marketing insights, trends, tips, and content to keep your affiliate and performance marketing fresh and your partners driving consistent sales.