You're listening to the Affiliate Marketing Podcast brought to you by affiversemedia.com. The chapter and verse of everything you need to know about running a successful affiliate program for your business. This is a podcast for digital and affiliate marketers, publishers, networks, agencies, and market providers who operate, support, or manage affiliate marketing programs around the globe. If you want to launch, scale, and grow a successful affiliate marketing program, you're in the right place. In this podcast, you'll learn how affiliate and partner marketing is constantly changing. And tune in to industry experts who are getting behind our mics to share tactical insights and practical knowledge to help your affiliate program grow. Here you'll discover what's new and trending in affiliate and performance marketing, how to run your affiliate program successfully, and gain industry insights from experts and practitioners from around the globe. The truth is, you simply won't find this information anywhere else. And here's your award-winning affiliate and performance marketing host, an industry veteran, your affiliate marketing guide, and the founder of Affert, Leanne Johnston.
SPEAKER_02Welcome to this week's affiliate marketing podcast with me, your host, Leanne Johnston. And today I'm really excited because I've got uh editorial director of Global Savings Group, Anna Heck joining me on the podcast this week. Anna, it's a pleasure to have you. I'm so excited to have you behind the mic this week. Thanks so much for being here.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_02All right, so we've got a lot to kind of break down in terms of working with content publishers and specifically kind of big media content publishers like Global Savings Group. But before we get started, I really want you to just take a moment and tell everybody how you got into the role as editorial director of Global Savings Group and why you are so passionate about content marketing. Because I kind of picked you out on the stage at the IPX meeting in London and just thought I have to get you on the mic and just talk a little bit about the content that you're crafting and the work that you're doing at Global Savings Group and just help affiliate managers to understand a little bit more about how to work with you guys. So start us off with your backstory and let's begin.
SPEAKER_00Okay, perfect. So I am the editorial director. I'm now the global editorial director at Global Savings Group. So very exciting stuff happening because we're really expanding all of our efforts and trying to make it really like a global initiative where we're bringing commerce content to different markets. And so I've been at Global Savings Group for now about two years. Um, I didn't intend on moving to London, but when a friend calls you and says, I think you'd be a good fit for this role, you and it's London, you don't really turn it down. So essentially, I think my love for e-commerce kind of was an accident, or how I got into e-commerce was sort of an accident. So I started off in shopping magazines in New York City. And you know, when you're young and just got out of journalism school, you just want to go to New York and work in fashion magazines. So that's what I did. But soon after I got there, I realized that the landscape was very much changing. So, of course, like publishing and all of this was kind of taking a hit. So everything was moving into digital. So I essentially ended up working at InStyle magazine. So I was working at Time Inc. And kind of as a coincidence, I was working as an editorial assistant and then I moved into being a project manager. And basically, I was tasked with kind of starting our e-commerce initiative within Time Inc. So I was working alongside some pretty well-known names in the industry now, but we were all just like kind of guinea pigs then trying to teach editors how to make affiliate links, trying to get them to think about what their shopping content would be coming up and making sure they had it in their editorial calendar. And so I think that what I noticed at that point was this is something very exciting that was coming for magazines because we could really kind of change the landscape of how we were making money. So I started doing that at Time Inc., did that for about two years, but I got a call from CNN come over to CNN and start this shopping website, CNN underscored. So that was our first ever shopping website. And so I think I've been kind of doing that ever since. I've been working for kind of a flurry of startups, and then I ended up at Global Savings Group. I've done some consulting in the past on e-commerce for smaller brands. So I don't know. I think I just kind of keep getting pulled back into it essentially. And I really enjoy it. And it's something that I'm really passionate about because I think my journalism background makes it so that I care a lot about creating quality content still. But it then we have this marketing piece to it as well. And it's kind of fun to be sort of like, you know, straddling the line between business and journalism and editorial.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I love it because you've actually had such a depth of expertise in creating the content and curating the content. And now you're moving into the kind of commercial side of the business in terms of taking that content and, you know, building the performance marketing part out, which has a lot of the bigger publishers have been a little bit late to come to the party in terms of working on performance and they're starting to realize the value that this can actually add on their revenue streams outside of just the traditional advertising model. So I love the fact that you've had that experience and you're now bringing that forward and putting it into the brands and the companies that you're working with right now. Now, I know that you guys have literally, and this is a bit timely, launched a new product. So can you talk us through this new product? Because all of our listeners are affiliate managers, they're going to want to come and work with you on this product. And we're showcasing it here on the affiliate marketing podcast first. So give us the scoop on what you've just launched.
SPEAKER_00So essentially, we, you know, for it's kind of been a long time in the making, but Global Savings Group, or if I say GSG sometimes, that's Global Savings Group, they've been wanting to take their content offerings to the US for quite a long time. So we recently just launched Smart Shopper for coupons.com in the US. And so essentially coupons.com is one of Global Savings Group's uh domains that we kind of recently launched in March. And now we're adding on Smart Shopper. So that's actually the name of our brand. So it's kind of like a New York Times wire cutter or CNN, CNN underscored like equivalent. So we live on the site and we are now bringing users shopping content. So we're covering everything, you know, from tech to travel to lifestyle to home to fitness. So it's really like we're just testing everything now and really taking an as SEO heavy approach, but we're also doing a lot of branded content. We're gonna be doing high-yield lead generation content. And this just launched on February, sorry, July 25th. So it's brand new. So we're very, very excited about it.
SPEAKER_02Well, that's amazing. I mean, I can I can see how this is gonna be quite exciting because it's it's a whole new genre that you're adding in, you're testing lots of different things. So, guys, if you're listening to this podcast and you've got anything in the retail sector, you're gonna want to be reaching out to your account manager at GSG right now to get in on this new product. Now, a lot of affiliate managers reach out to publishers like you and they want to get their products and services featured. Like everybody wants to be on the page. But one of the things that they should be doing before they actually send out that request, what is it that makes you actually take up a product? And I really want you to spend some time educating our audience about how they need to pitch a big media conglomerate because a lot of affiliate managers are like, oh, I want to get my stuff on Forbes or I want to get it on this site or that site, and they really don't know how to sort of pitch the affiliate program proposition to them or the or the product proposition. So if you can give us a little bit of a low down of what your pet peeves are, you're like the best pitches that you've ever had.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, totally. I mean, I I don't know if I know any off the top of my head, but I think that when you consider that people are often reaching out like in a kind of a batch format where they're just shooting off the same email to everyone or the same message in an affiliate network to everyone, I think it doesn't drive up a sense of urgency, first of all. And when you when you do have a lot of choice or you're like a large publisher, it's there's a good chance that any kind of generic pitches would be put to the back burner, unfortunately. And so essentially, like what I think I've noticed in the past is when people are reaching out to us, they've really taken stock of like what our brand is and like what we stand for and kind of what we are offering to readers. So obviously with Smartshopper, we're on coupons.com. So any reader who lands there is looking for like an amazing product at a great price point or some kind of great deal. So I think that kind of thinking about the savings aspect, at least with Smart Shopper in particular, that would be something to think about when you're positioning it to us. But I think also, you know, we also do affiliate content for Daily Mail, and that's a very different way to pitch us because it's way more fashion and beauty heavy and kind of has a more pop culture vibe to it or more of like a magazine. So I think really understanding what the brand is before you pitch your product or your client is really important. And also, I mean, I think it's really helpful when people reach out and they actually have taken a look at our content and they say to me, like, hey, this product for my client would do really well in your particular category or vertical or set of substories, we're really happy to kind of take that feedback on board because when we are being inundated with pitches, not that we need you to make the decision for us, but it is really helpful to know that you've kind of thought about where your particular product or brand could kind of fit within our ecosphere. So I think just doing a bit of research beforehand. And then, you know, if you are reaching out via email, like let us know that what affiliate network you're on and what your CPA is that you're willing to pay and how we could actually partner together for like a long-term meaning in a kind of like a long-term meaningful way, is what I would suggest. Because obviously a one-off is not as appealing as really forming a bond and then saying going forward, here's how we can work together.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I love that. So that's three really hot tips there, guys, that Anna shared with you. The other thing is don't you get a lot of those kind of pictures of saying, oh, I've seen you written this article and my product would fit really great in that article. To me, that's still spammy because you're probably getting a thousand of those a day. So really having like in the first three lines, the kind of key points that you've just mentioned now or kind of make a difference between you being put into the spam folder and you actually getting a reply. What about things like being timely about when you contact? Because obviously there's different shopping periods, different seasonal events, different things that happen. Like instead of just trying to get on the page and you know, not actually putting any thought to why you should be on the page, but do you think that may plays a role as well?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, totally. I think that even sometimes just like thinking about my inbox right now, you know, sometimes I get story ideas from the pitches that I'm getting. So if it is like timely or it's about hair care for summer or for the beach or for when you're traveling or whatever it is, sometimes that can even tip us to be like, hey, we should actually revisit that story we wrote a year ago because maybe it is a good time to talk about it. And if you have brought this up to our attention, it's way more likely that we're gonna open the email, think about the featuring it, that kind of thing.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so seasonality is quite important because it can actually spur you to create new content stories. Now you spoke about going back into content that you've written in the past and you know, maybe updating it or upgrading it. Let's talk a little bit about that. Like, how often do big publishers go back and look at their previous content pieces and update them? And what's the work that goes into actually keeping all of this content that you're writing on the site all the time fresh and ranking? Like talk us through the kind of evergreen story behind doing a paid placement on a huge media company.
SPEAKER_00Well, I think in terms of the updating piece, there are so many different ways that we approach updates. It can be KPI driven, where maybe each week we're looking at which content was doing well two weeks ago and which is not now. And so maybe we're taking a look at are people clicking through to the product or were they and now they're not? Is it getting less sessions all of a sudden for some reason? We're always looking at that on a weekly basis to consider like which piece of content is really priority for us to optimize right now because maybe something's not going well with it and the health of it for some reason is falling. Like maybe a product is out of stock, or maybe we have a 404 error, or maybe people are bouncing from the page really quickly. So we just need to understand like which content was ranking and why is it, you know, kind of failing right now. But then I think there is also like the evergreen content that we write, but it is actually more seasonal. So we're thinking about, you know, even right now we've pulled all of our content that we have coming up for fall that we're going to be updating. And so we're we have a huge list, but we also have to work it into the editor's, you know, like weekly workflow. So there's only so much they can handle at a given time on top of creating new content. And so I always say, like to my team, I'm kind of like, we need to consider what are our most valuable pieces with the highest search volume for the topic that we're writing about. And when do we prioritize those pieces of content and making sure they're fresh and new versus writing new content because obviously we don't want to have like a graveyard of content behind us where everything is out of date or, you know, just losing sessions every few weeks. So essentially that's kind of how we think about it. We look at it seasonally, but we're also looking at things on a weekly basis just to make sure we know exactly where our content is and that nothing's like falling off. But it is a huge part of the job. Like I think if you look at Wire Cutter or something, you know, they have a hundred people on their staff, at least the last time I checked, and a huge portion of that staff lineup is people who are just dedicated to doing updates, and a majority of the content on their homepage is updates. So you can see how important it is if you're doing like an SEO evergreen model with content, because they're like a leader in the space, of course.
SPEAKER_02So I love that because actually the that opens up an opportunity strategically for affiliate managers to actually contact you. There might be past articles that they can read in that research piece that you told them to do before they contact you to actually go and have a look at some of that old content that you're looking at and actually give you ideas on how to update it. So if you can't necessarily get on the home page and you've got limited budgets, you don't have to necessarily always pitch with you know fixed fees or whatever the case may be. You can actually do the research and help them to increase the content. And you would consider that just as evenly as an opportunity to work with an advertiser as somebody coming to you with a brand new concept or a topical thing that's you know fresh and hot right now to talk about. So I think that's a really good actually um like strategic point for people to to kind of like pick up on in like reading between the lines. Like if you haven't got budget and you and you've got a really strong product, go and do the research on the pages within the slide, like in depth, and then put your pitch forward to Anna and her team and say this is what we could possibly do to help you start ranking again.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, totally. I mean, I think the doing the homework piece is so important, but also like if you can't offer a higher CPA or you can't, you know, at this point pay for like a placement in an article or something. There's also very simple ways to convince editors to test your product, and that would be to provide a sample. This is one of the things I want to get down to and all the little hacks. Come on, give it to us. They all love a uh, you know, a free beauty product or something to test out. And we still will only cover products that we, you know, really enjoy. But I think, yeah, I mean, once we get into talking about the different content types, like one of the big topics and that we're focusing on now is how much product testing should we be doing? Because we need to like keep up with, you know, the whole market and everything that's happening and make sure our content is very much expert-driven or product tested and really quality. So being able to get like a product in our hands and touch and feel it and say if we really like it just drives up trust with our user anyway. So that is like a strategic point for us as well. But maybe it could also be beneficial to the affiliate manager.
SPEAKER_02Totally. And from a content perspective, I mean, I always feel because there's a big conversation that happens around gifting to or you know, like giving free products or free trials or whatever the case may be to content creators. But I honestly believe that if somebody can touch and feel and use a product, they're going to write about it very differently to if they had to just get like a fact sheet about here's all the product stuff. And have you actually seen that that make a difference, like in your own personal writing experiences?
SPEAKER_00Yes, totally. I mean, I think if our main goal is to add more value for the reader than a retailer site alone could. And if we can't get more information than what we can just see on a retailer site or read in reviews, we're essentially not doing a huge service to the reader. So even though we can't test every product we write about, the goal is that we get to the point where we are actually testing and, you know, like you say, touching and feeling every product that we're talking about, because that will just add so much more value. And like you say, the way you write about a product, if you've actually used it and tried it out and seen how long the battery life really is or how it really connects to something versus just reading what people are saying online. And I mean, we are we consider ourselves shopping experts. So I think that it makes a big difference if we can actually see if it's a quality product. What happens if it's not a quality product then? Unfortunately, we we will say that. So that's kind of the thing, also, is you if you go onto our website, we for almost every product we write about, we do have pros and cons. And that's just to drive up trust with the readers. So almost every product you have is gonna have pros and cons. And we try to be fair and balanced about it. But we will like we even had our content planning session two days ago, and some of our editors were talking about doing reviews, and they were like, Well, I didn't actually like it. And we're like, perfect, write about it, you know, because it's, you know, we have to give our honest opinion to our readers.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, absolutely. And and that's not necessarily a bad thing for a brand, because I often get clients asking, Oh, I don't want to be on the site because they're not gonna give me a positive review. Well, if clients only see positive reviews, they're not gonna trust what they're reading anyway, because let's face it, we're all human and we know nothing is perfect. So as long as it's not factually incorrect, it's not, you know, blasphemous to your brand where somebody's just taken a complete, like, you know, left field turn and and you know, been very emotive about the fact that something they don't like about the brand, then you know, it's okay to have, you know, small things that might be incorrect because clients will still purchase you anyway. Like I know for shoes, for example, you know, I don't find Puma shoes very comfortable. I'm a f I'm a I'm a bit of a shoe addict, but I love Nikes. And it doesn't mean that Puma is any worse than Nike, it just means that that's my personal preference, and I know that they're not as comfortable because my feet are wider. So, you know, there's lots of different things like that that happen. And I think affiliate managers they sometimes get scared about branding and they they overthink it a little bit, but actually what you need to think about is how much value is that SEO link gonna bring me and how many customers are actually gonna see my product, regardless of whether it's not presented as 100% perfect. And what's the outcomes of me doing this long-term collaboration with a content creator to boost the rest of my program? So I totally agree with you.
SPEAKER_00We do try to be, you know, fair about it. I just want to add one thing because it's not like we're going to just say overall this product is like terrible. You know, we're what it what we typically do is like if you're buying something for camping and you need it to have a longer battery life, you know, we may say if you're not a serious outdoorsman, this is a fine product for you and it's a great price point. But if you're needing it to last you for two days, probably not. So it's more of like on a use case basis that we try to tell you what's good or bad, good or bad about a product.
SPEAKER_02So it's context, right? It's always about putting that product into the context of what it's going to be used for and how often and how long. And that's not necessarily negative branding. It's it really isn't. Now I want to talk a little bit about the elephant in every editor's room, which is AI content creation. Uh some people are very pro in terms of using it to come up with ideas and you know, write rough drafts and do basic content pieces. Some people are very negative about this should not be happening and it should not be infiltrating into our space. What are your thoughts on this?
SPEAKER_00This is a topic that we are talking about constantly. But it's sort of like when is it appropriate for a team to be using it and when is it not? And of course, what are the SEO implications long-term of using AI, which most of us don't really know yet, I would say. And so essentially I have had kind of a slow burn with it. So I when I mean when we first started talking about using AI a few months ago, I of course kind of had a bit of a, you know, heels in the sand kind of reaction to it because I really value the human content that we are creating. And I know that for such a long time, Google has been telling us that if it feels like it's written by bots or if it looks like it's overoptimized, you will be penalized for this. So it is kind of a weird shift just because I know Google is going in more of an AI overall direction anyway, with how they're going to set up their SERPs. So I think that if they're doing that, they can't really tell us not to do it. So now we have to figure out what is the balance between the type of content that we create using AI, what will make us faster and more streamlined and able to keep up with the competition, and what's going to be actually harmful to the brand where we become so generic that we are not even a brand anymore. You know what I mean? So I think that what the way that we're approaching it now is we're considering, we're doing some testing. So we haven't started using it yet, but we're considering whether we could use AI for things that are like listicles or where it's actually very simple writing, you know, because every single website is going to have like the best air fryers, you know. And so could we actually use AI to at least give us an output that starts us off on having some kind of framework of content to work with? And then and we will still have editors looking at that content and fact-checking every piece of it and making sure that it's very sound from top to bottom. And there are also just different types of content that you can't really use AI on yet. You know, for example, like if we are doing a piece of branded content for like, say, I'll just throw out there like Marriott or something, and they want us to write a piece of content on the best sustainable hotels curated by Marriott or something. I'm just making this up. And then, you know, check. Chat GPTs tends to be kind of two years behind in terms of the data that it outputs for you. So you can't really write that brand new newsy piece of content with the data that it's currently crawling. So if it was a piece on how to travel sustainably, then you could potentially think about using AI to supplement some of your content.
SPEAKER_02I think everybody is. And I think it's a very sensible approach, to be honest, because I think you want to find efficiencies in your teams because we want to be able to do things faster, better, quicker, and provide that service to our clients. But we also want to keep the authenticity. And I don't think a chat GPT bot, whatever you're using, can ever be authentic. It can certainly, you know, like you said, if you if if you've got like listicles, it can certainly pull all of the data, compare it, put it into a table so that it's done, which would normally take you 20 minutes, 30 minutes anyway. And what better way than to, you know, allow your writer to focus on the emotive, the you know, quantitative or and do the research behind the products while Chat GPT is doing those bits. But I do think it will get more intelligent as it continues to learn. So maybe in five, 10 years' time we'll be having a different conversation. But for right now, I really don't see how we how any business could fully authentic, like authentically grow a content-based service business with just AI. I just don't think it would be possible right now. And that's my personal opinion. I could be wrong, but you know, I think there's there's use cases for it 100%. Um, and and I'm actually speaking to a lot of people that are using it in very interesting ways, like to even spurn ideas. And that that could be something that affiliate managers could do. They could take a piece of content, chuck it into Chat GPT and say, give me some alternative ideas to pitch to editorial staff member that will help me, you know, create a content brief for them. Like that could be one of the things that we could test out. Maybe somebody listening to this uh podcast can do that and and and maybe email it to you and see what you say. Okay. That's pretty interesting. And you did touch on this a little bit, but what do you think the effects of AI content flooding into search engines is gonna be? Because obviously I think that you know, for short-term bursts, you probably could get AI content to rank in some way, shape, or form if you're really clever about it. But what's the impact to the user? Because ultimately I think Google always cares about what is the user's experience within the search space. So what are your thoughts on that?
SPEAKER_00I think that the impact on the user will really come down to how the publisher is handling it, because you know, of course, you want to make sure that you still have editors who are checking everything, fact-checking it, making sure that it's accurate and that it sounds nice and is enjoyable to read and is relevant. But I think that in terms of like what the impact will be on SERPs and like just Google's rankings overall, is you know, I'm not exactly sure at this point, but my feeling is that it may become way more competitive to rank for things because if you think about most publishers have already been using SEMrush or HREFs or another SEO tool to pull all of their keywords, and everyone has visibility over what are the best topics or what is the most interest in a particular market. So that's kind of how we, or at least publishers who are doing an SEO-driven approach, are kind of doing their content brainstorming. So we've already landed on the point where maybe a lot of us are gonna have the same topics. But then if many of us are also using similar tools, how similar will that content actually be? And I think that I think the editors are gonna have to be very have a very close eye on their competitors to make sure that we're not creating too similar of content. Of course, the way that you prompt something will give you a different result. But that's just kind of my feeling about it. And I think that also if you think about how important it is to have experts in your content and how important it is to add more value than the competitor publisher next to you, it will still take a lot of work from a human to make the content better than the next person's and also writing styles and writing, you know, because you put yourself into every piece of content that you're actually writing.
SPEAKER_02I mean, that's the truth, right? Every every person that's a wordsmith is gonna curate their content in a different way. And Chat GPT is very robotical. Like, I don't know if you've been using it at all. I've been using it quite a lot just to generate stuff to see what it comes, just to play with it. And it's very robotical, like it it has no personality. So you definitely do need to have different people doing different things, and and you know, they'll have a penchant to be a beauty and editor writer, a home, you know, they've got they've got a passion for those products, and that's what makes them great writers. But you you you did speak a little bit about different types of content, and I just want to touch on that point a little bit more because I think affiliate managers also they don't get created in their pitch to you, they they they just want to be on the page, but they don't actually talk about what kind of content would work for them. So, can you just share the different types of content styles that people should consider when they are pitching to you? Because you mentioned listicles, obviously reviews, like what are some of the other types of content pieces that you do?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, maybe I'll start with those two first and then we'll move into some other types. So essentially, listicles are one of the top performing types of commerce content, and that's because you see them everywhere, of course. A listicle would be, you know, your best laptops of 2023. And it's really like this is the piece of content that a user is looking for when they're actually ready to buy. Like they have decided already that a laptop is the right device for them and a desktop computer is not the one that they want, um, or they don't want a tablet. So they are kind of at the point where they're just like, show me the laptops. I just want to pick one. And that's why we call it a listical, because it really is just a list of laptops. I think these are really common and important for every type of commerce publisher, just because this is where you're gonna get what we call like your money keywords, or whatever we are writing about is going to be searched a lot by the user. So if you're looking at the US market versus the UK market, people everywhere are searching for best laptops. So I think with listicles, of course, we want to have a variety of brands in them to give the user a lot of choice. So I think if you are, you know, someone who is trying to pitch your laptop client or something to a publisher, consider what's already in certain content pieces. Let us know that this is a big and upcoming brand and you haven't really covered it in any of your laptop content. So you could definitely bring that to us because it is a pretty easy and low-lift thing for us to add a laptop into a listicle. Uh it doesn't take a lot of time. And it's good for us to have a variety of products because that really is where the user is deciding which one do I want. And then we have product reviews. So just to go back on this a bit, of course, it's where the editor is really reaching out to a PR house or to the brand itself and it they're getting a sample that they can call in and test for a certain period of time. Typically, we're doing either short-term tests or long-term tests with these product reviews because we really can see that some things you can try it once or twice, you know how it works, you know how the battery life is, you get it. There's other things where if it's like a beauty tool or something, you may need to use it for a bit longer to see the desired results that the retailer or the manufacturer is marketing. So then we try to still do them, but do them very tactically because they do take a lot of time.
SPEAKER_02And that's actually a good point because before you pitch a publisher, figure out what kind of content you need and at what point in the customer user journey you want that content to be featured, because that will dictate the type of content that you need to be asking for as well. Because a lot of affiliate managers, they just they just want their content, they just want their product reviewed. But actually, that's maybe not the case. Maybe you can start out with a listicle first and then work to the review later. So, what other kinds of content are there that people should consider? I mean, uh obviously there's like email content and all the other types, which would be more timely. So if there's a special offer or special special promotion. So really getting tactical about what kinds of content you want the publisher to write for you is important in your pitch.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, totally. And I think just to touch on the next most successful type of content that we can see in the market, which would be buying guides. So buying guides are the piece of content that you write when the user is still at the evaluation stage. Like, do I even want a laptop, or is that even a good product for me? And there, or maybe it's even like a more, you know, a newer product that they haven't really heard a lot about. But if we use laptops as the example, it would really be your uh definitive guide to buying a laptop and everything to know about it, you know. So it's really like telling you what specs you should look for, what maybe some of the major brands are. This is also a piece of content where we would tend to link out to a lot of our related content. So we will call this like our pillar page. And that means that if the user lands on the pillar page, they can find a lot of other similar content. So then they can really kind of stay with us throughout their buying journey. Like maybe they start at the buying guide, then they see that we have a link to our best picks listicle. And so they will click on that. Then so they've kind of started it at the evaluate at the evaluation stage and then gone to where they're like ready to transact, and they will go over to the listicle. And so we do all types of content in this way where we're linking them together. But I would say buying guides and listicles are like our two like kind of bread and butter types of content that we do.
SPEAKER_02Last question that I'm gonna ask you because you've given us so much advice already, is what do you think the future of performance performance and content marketing partnerships look like? I mean, it's getting a little bit more complex with some of the FTC guidelines that are coming into place, all of the rules and regulations, the compliance, just the sheer massive volume of content that's coming into the market. What do you think the future of partnerships looks like with content creators and brands?
SPEAKER_00From my end, I haven't really seen a shift that much yet, but I do know that the rules are always getting more and more strict for product review sites like ours. So, for example, when we launched Smart Shopper, we of course had to go through all of the FTC guidelines and make sure that we knew that we were compliant, that nothing that we were doing was misleading. And there's so many rules around imagery you can use and you know what you can say and in the text and whether you're ranking things in a way that's misleading to the user when it comes to the products. We have disclaimers everywhere. And I think that's the big thing is making sure that you're being super honest with everything that you do in terms of the text and the content that you're putting in front of the reader, because uh the readers are just getting smarter and smarter all the time, and your users are. So essentially, you know, if we're doing anything related to finance, we have to tell you, you know, we are not financial advisors. This is just an option of something that you could use. I think that's something that maybe affiliate managers just need to be aware of because really it's like as editors, we have to cover our backs in that way. So if we are writing a piece of content and we send it to you and there is a disclaimer, there's a very high likely likelihood that that came from our legal team and we can't really do much about it. So that's stuff, that's kind of something we deal with pretty frequently. I think in terms of the future of like performance marketing strategies, I would say that one thing that we are focused on right now is really trying to see how we can work with a whole multitude of brands, no matter their size. So, like small or large, or those with who have established that they have a huge marketing budget versus those that have a small marketing budget. So we're kind of trying to like diversify our different branded content offerings. So essentially with Smart Shopper or with Best Buys in the UK, you can buy different types of article placements at different price points. So either you're higher up in the article or you're lower in the article, but you still, you know, we don't usually feature more than like 10 to 12 products in a given piece. So you're still going to be like very, very visible on the page, even if you can only afford, you know, a lower spot. We do certain different types of native content. So this will be when we're writing a piece of content, we kind of take a more newsy angle with it and try to make the marketing and the content piece feel a lot more natural to the reader and relevant to what's happening, like in the news or seasonally or whatever it may be. So I think one thing we're trying to do is see if we can play with creating native pieces of content that are shared across a few brands. So we're trying to think of different solutions because it can be kind of an exclusive space with branded content if we don't get a little bit more creative.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And also that's, I mean, it works both ways as well, because ultimately you've got bulls to pay, you've got people to, you know, employ to do all of this writing. And I think that's the other thing that we wanted to sort of touch on very quickly is that content costs money to create. You know, there's people, there's humans, there's systems, there's tech, there's legal, there's compliance, there's all of these things that go behind it. It's not just slapping words on a page and publishing it to a WordPress site. So, and and there's all the updates and things that you guys are doing as well, as we discussed earlier. So I think really getting tactical about where and how you want to spend your money and what you need that content to do for you, short-term, medium-term, long-term, and how that's impacting all the other stuff that you're doing within your affiliate program. Like that's really up to the affiliate manager to decide on before they send that outreach email to you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, totally. Yeah, I mean, I think we we tend to encourage brands in general to go for more long-term pieces of content that are evergreen, because of course you'll have the one-off brand that wants to do like a specific sale or something, but like, and that's fine. And sometimes that does work pretty well, but we do try to create content with the idea that it will be live and performing for like 10, 12 months, two years.
SPEAKER_02So if if we think content-based publishers are always at the top of the funnel, like brand awareness, right? And and then you said that you can create content that actually brings you further down into the buyer journey. Are you seeing any kind of tech innovations or things that are coming to the fore now where content-based publishers are trying to get into every single aspect of that 26-point customer journey?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, I think that really like one thing that we're focusing more on now, just because we haven't been so with some of our other properties, we haven't been so big on social, and there's really just been this need for us to really stick to the SEO approach, just whether it was because of the nature of the partnership or the resources that we had or whatever it may be. But I think that, you know, I recently read an article that that Wire Cutter did really, really well around Prime Day, I believe it was, because they had used different social platforms in a kind of like creative way, and they were really testing as they went along. So I think potentially because, you know, different shopping moments like Prime Day or Black Friday are so competitive for ranking, like everyone's pressing publish on the same content at the same time. It's very tricky to think about how you would get a lot of traffic in a given day if you're not a big established website already. But I think that trying to just be up on the trends when it comes to social platforms, understand where your user is shopping and like what device type they're on, trying to create like a cohesive experience across all of the different devices your demographic may be on is really important.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, because you spoke a little bit about like cohesive cross-device shopping experiences coming to the fore, and also a little bit about Gen Z and short short form video trends when we when we were planning this. So, how how are those things impacting future innovation with content creators?
SPEAKER_00Well, I think to touch on the cross-device cohesive experience, I just think that essentially you need to know where your user is at, you know, because if your product team is building all of your products on their desktop and that's kind of all they're caring about, because that's all they're seeing, and nobody's bothering to look at a preview on mobile. And I think this is neglected more than you think. Like it sounds very obvious, but if you can see that a majority of your audience is looking at your site on mobile and you have a terrible mobile experience, that's something that you need to address like immediately. And then when it comes to Gen Z, I think it's just, you know, I'm a millennial, but I think one thing that I've been realizing and thinking about is we've been seeing for a long time that, you know, our audiences have often been like middle-aged because that tends to be when people have money and are have expendable income and all of these things. But we do have, you know, the Gen Z generation are coming into adulthood now and they shop very differently and they behave online very differently than maybe I do or that my even my parents do. So I think we're going to have to consider how are they shopping, what kind of devices are they on, and also just taking into account short um short form video. It's not easy all the time, depending on your resources, but if you can really tap into where they are and how they're interested in things, TikTok trends, for example, are just a great place to get inspiration for content. And so also kind of catering your content to those different platforms where they are will be more important than ever in like the next five, 10 years.
SPEAKER_02Well, I think that's also another tactical approach that you've just given everybody here in terms of how do they get on the page, how do they actually get their products published. If you can create some of those short-form video content pieces for publishers to write around, that will help you get your stuff seen and heard. So I think that's a that's a really interesting place to kind of round this podcast episode off because not only have you given us golden advice on how to actually approach big publishers, how to actually pitch your story and how to define strategically and tactically what kinds of content you want to be looking at, but you've also given us a couple of hacks in terms of you know how to really like slide it in under if you haven't got big budgets, which is really why people are listening to this podcast. So I have to thank you immensely for coming onto the podcast with me and sharing all of your knowledge about how to work with content-based publishers strategically and cleverly. Really looking forward to seeing you around at some of our future events and getting you on some more expert panels. And thank you so much for being here. And I believe this was your first podcast. So thank you very much for announcing the inside scoop of the new product and coming on here with me for the first time. I hope that you've enjoyed it.
SPEAKER_00Yes, thank you so much. It was a pleasure, and I was really honored when you asked me to come on. So it was a very interesting conversation, and sometimes it is nice to like reflect on what you're doing, you know, because in the day-to-day it can be such a rat race. So yeah, I think it was really fun to just think about the overall picture of where things have landed in affiliate because it has changed so much just in the last few years.
SPEAKER_02And it will continue to change in the years to come, believe me.
SPEAKER_00I know.
SPEAKER_02Hold on to the seat of your pants and you know, fly fly like the wind. I think that's that's a good motto to end us off on. Thank you so much for being on the podcast with me, Anna.
SPEAKER_00Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_01Want to get your affiliate program noticed? Need new business leads for your agency, network, or staff tools? We can help your business get seen and heard. Appyverse offers a variety of advertising and podcast advertising placements, reaching tens of thousands of digital and affiliate marketers around the world. Our content receives over 800,000 impressions a month and is highly targeted. A podcast regularly chunks the top 100 across Apple in business, news, and boasts the most five-star reviews for an affiliate marketing podcast with more than 2,500 plus downloads per episode, putting us to the top 5% of podcasts worldwide. We help brands and affiliate partners connect and grow. Agencies share case studies, insights, and help them find new clients too. Best companies find new companies and new leads. Networks find new advertisers and publishers. Advertise with us, and you'll find and connect to all the right people in the affiliate marketing industry. Download our media pack by visiting our site, affivertsmedia.com, and click advertise to find out more. That's a wrap for this week's affiliate marketing podcast. If you're loving what we're putting down, why not head over to Apple IT and give us a five-star review? Make sure to subscribe to our podcast and our YouTube channel so you never miss another insightful episode or one of our free webinars ever again. Tune in next week for more digital affiliate marketing insights, trends, tips, and content to keep your affiliate and performance marketing fresh and your partners driving consistent skills.