You're listening to the Affiliate Marketing Podcast brought to you by AffiverseMedia.com. The chapter and verse of everything you need to know about running a successful affiliate program for your business. This is a podcast for digital and affiliate marketers, publishers, networks, agencies and matec providers who operate, support, or manage affiliate marketing programs around the globe. If you want to launch, scale, and grow a successful affiliate marketing program, you're in the right place. In this podcast, you'll learn how affiliate and partner marketing is constantly changing. And tune in to industry experts who are getting behind our mic to share tactical insights and practical knowledge to help your affiliate program grow. Here you'll discover what's new and trending in affiliate and performance marketing, how to run your affiliate program successfully and gain industry insights from experts and practitioners from around the globe. The truth is, you simply won't find this information anywhere else. Now here's your award-winning affiliate and performance marketing host, an industry veteran, your affiliate marketing guide and the founder of Affiver, Leanne Johnston.
SPEAKER_02Welcome everybody back to this week's episode of the Affiliate Marketing Podcast. And joining me today is somebody that I actually call a friend because we've known each other for a couple of years now. We've visited each other's homes. We uh hang out at events so uh constantly all the time. And joining me is Naomi Barton, the portfolio director for Clarion Gaming, which is the company that runs IGB affiliate events around the world. And these are events that I've been attending for decades now. And it's really a pleasure for me to have you on this podcast with me today to talk about women and leadership and the affiliate marketing industry and where it's heading. So, Naomi, over to you. Thank you so much for being here today with me.
SPEAKER_00Thank you for inviting me. It's such a pleasure to have a bit to be able to have a chat with you as well as sort of talk about all the things that we're both really passionate about. So honestly, thank you for inviting me onto your podcast. I'm very honoured to be here.
SPEAKER_02I'm very grateful to have you. Now, I know I mentioned your fancy title, which is Portfolio Director of Clarion Gaming, but can you tell us a little bit about what you do, what you're responsible for, and then we'll get into the nitty-gritty of what we want to talk about today.
SPEAKER_00Sure. So I joined Clarion about five years ago, and then around four years ago took over the IGB events business. So I run the IGB events portfolio for Clarion Gaming, and that is IGB Affiliate London, which takes place alongside ICE every February, and IGB Live, which is B2B and affiliate iGaming Affiliate Marketing, which is in Amsterdam. So comprises of two key sort of core events for the iGaming affiliate industry.
SPEAKER_02Brilliant. Now that is everything from kind of understanding the theme of the events through to the actual execution of the event, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think probably it sort of starts from setting the strategy and the business strategy and sort of the overall ownership of those two events and the PLs and the business side of things, and then ensuring that the direction of the business is taken in a direction of growth and then really managing a really quite amazing team who then deliver operationally. We have a sort of marketing team, commercial team, content team, etc. So all of those different elements really come together to produce what we obviously run as the events every year. And there's a real common misconception that sometimes these things, you know, once they happen, it's sort of like, well, what's next? And actually, it's such a big operation that it never stops really. You're always in executions mode, but you have to learn to then stop and pause the plan to figure out where you're going next and sort of strategically plan long term. So it's not dull, it's quite, it's it's quite busy, but it's great.
SPEAKER_02Now, a lot of people tuning into this podcast, they attend these events. Like they go to these events at least, you know, twice a year, maybe even more if if there's other smaller satellite events happening. But why do you think events like this are so important for the affiliate marketing industry? And what have you noticed since coming into this industry five years ago?
SPEAKER_00I think I've been bit doing a really interesting piece of work on this, um, and I'll share some of that work sort of, you know, at some stage in the next coming weeks and months with with our community. But the biggest thing I have learned is that this industry is all about trust, it's all about trust-based partnerships, and that is literally the one thing that underpins, I think, this industry. So, because of that element of needing to create and foster trust, a face-to-face opportunity to do that is so key for this sector. And I was interviewing a customer last week in Sweden, and we were talking about the need for digital metrics and data and analysis and analytics, and then coupled with that, you need connection and human connection. So if you can get that right, if you can create the sort of the tangible metrics and add that to the intangible but really important human connection, then I think the iGaming community and the affiliate community, that's what they really need. They need to have that face-to-face connection as well as all of the data and all the measuring. And that's how they prefer to do business. That's what we learn.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head. Unlike other digital channels, which can be run purely off of the data matrix and optimized accordingly, like paid media, social, SEO, this is the one digital channel where relationships really do matter because you're dealing with other humans. You have, you know, they're entrepreneurs, they're business owners, they're running teams of people. And I think that's the one thing that affiliate managers sometimes forget. You know, they see a name on a piece of paper and they go, oh, that's my partner, and I need to go work with them. But without actually meeting that person and understanding what the commonalities are between you and them, you don't really get to feel the enrichment of the account management experience and the relationship building experience if you're constantly sat behind a screen. And I know this because I've been in the industry for two decades, but you know, like some of the best partnerships that I've ever created have been on the back of meeting at an event, you know, laughing about something that both of us have experienced, or talking about our kids and really making that that personal connection, which then transcends after the event into kind of how do we work together to kind of mutually benefit from what is the performance relationship. So I think it's I think you've hit the nail on the head there in terms of like the data plus the relationship building is really what makes this industry great to work in. And I want to talk a little bit about that because I mean you hold a huge portfolio, okay? You're responsible for a lot of people, a lot of money, a lot of businesses, a lot of clients, a lot of affiliates who come to all of these events. And I guess it must be a little bit intimidating because it is still very much a male-dominated industry. And I'm sure you realize that when you when you kind of came in and walked around the first show that you ever did in affiliate marketing. I mean, predominantly it's still very male-driven. And that's that's not because of any negative reason, it's just the way that the industry's kind of progressed. And so coming in to sort of take ownership of this and go, okay, I'm going to take this you know event forward. And we're talking thousands of people. I mean, how how big is your biggest event then recently?
SPEAKER_00Well, uh IG, so IGB Live, I mean, they've all um been growing sort of really quite nicely and exponentially year on year. So we had around 8,000 people to our last event in Amsterdam. Yeah, it's it's big. And it felt like that as well. It felt busy and buzzy and there was an awful lot going on. And I think when I first, when I first, the first thing I remember was running IGB affiliate London in 2020 and standing at the top of the stairs in London and looking down and just seeing this sea of people, because I've worked in international sort of B2B events for quite a long time in different sectors, and you know, not all markets are in are in growth and have that energy and vitality actually that this sector does. And I was flawed by it. I just sort of looked around and thought, this is amazing. There's so many engaged people, there's business being done, there's networking, there's lead done. It just felt really vibrant and dynamic as an industry. And I think I came into it thinking, goodness, I've I I'm I'm quite entranced and sort of by this sector. And I I want to learn more, and I want I want to help, I want to grow with it, I guess. I want to grow with it, I want to develop and understand. And also, I guess when you talk about the female side of things, and and I want to celebrate and mentor women into this sector because I think that there are such great career opportunities. It's very tech savvy, it moves very fast, it's fast-paced. You know, I've started to really fall in love with the sector, and so I want to do what I can to encourage people into it. And I think when I do a lot of research with our customers, you realize that we all really share the same challenges. You know, how do I grow and scale my business? How do I meet people that I trust and form good relationships? How do I find good people? How do I retain my good people? What do I give to my people? And you realize that it does again all come back to the people, right? The people before profit. And if you nail that and if you get that right, then the rest will sort of follow.
SPEAKER_02And that's good mantra for any affiliate manager listening because it is about people before profit, even when you're running your affiliate program. It's always about establishing that relationship, building that trust, and then using that to actually leverage and grow the program moving forward by exploring lots of different opportunities. But it is still a male-dominated industry, unfortunately. And people like us are working hard to bring other women into the industry and to show the career progression that's here. What are some of the tips that you can give to like young affiliate managers coming into this industry who may be feeling a little bit, you know, not scared, but overwhelmed by, you know, the sheer fact that there are a few in a mass of many when they're walking to an 8,000-strong conference? Like, what are some of the pieces of advice that you can give to women who are looking to get into leadership roles and actually take, you know, the next generation along with them?
SPEAKER_00I think, first of all, I think know that you know that you deserve to be there, that you deserve your seat at the table, you deserve your voice. When I look back at what I was like, uh I love that the hunger and the energy that young people have coming into a market. You can you can feel it, you can see it. I think not being afraid to ask questions, like no question. I still say it now in most of the meetings that I run. There's no stupid questions, like none. And and the other thing is that you never stop learning or growing. Because if you're pushing yourself out of your comfort zone, you should always be asking questions that might make you feel a little uncomfortable. You're pushing yourself. So it's not like you get to a stage where you suddenly know everything because you don't, because life changes and and and sectors and work changes. So, and I think not being afraid to ask, if you hear somebody that inspires you, not being afraid to say, would you would you mentor me or can I speak to you? Like, I have done that frequently in my career, and I have been mentored upwards and downwards. I'm I'm being mentored all the time by you know amazing people, amazing young women in their 20s, who are so much more tech-savvy than me in certain areas, have a really unique and different perspective of marketing geniuses. You know, I learn from them all the time, but what I can hopefully give them is a level of experience and confidence to say, just ask, ask the question, ask why, don't be afraid to, you know, to make your mark and and not be don't be afraid to fail, which I know is quite a sort of cliche thing to say, but you know, I used to really take failure quite personally. I felt like if I got it wrong, I really used to take it personally, and I've had to really learn that it just doesn't matter, and you only learn from failure. And all the things that you think sometimes you hear when you're younger, all the memes, they're true. Like you only really do learn if you mess something up. But also the world doesn't cave in if you said something silly. It doesn't. So learning to have a slightly less sort of yeah, it's not personal. I wrote that on my fridge really early on in my career. It's just not personal. No one's out to sort of trip you up or mess you up, you know. It's just just ask the questions and be wholehearted. Don't be afraid.
SPEAKER_02So there's three things I took from that because it was quite a good like leadership speech, really, for women coming into this industry. The first thing is you already have a seat at the table. By being here, you are already here. So there's nothing that you need to prove to anybody, and there's nothing that you need to do other than continue your own personal development and learnings. Because guess what, guys? Like, as as you heard from Naomi, she's learning still, even though she's been running these huge events for many, many years. I'm learning still, even though I'm running multi-million dollar affiliate programs all around the world. Your learning never stops in this industry, and you have to be okay with that. Like, if you're gonna come into this industry and you're gonna want to build your career, you need to be okay with the fact that you're gonna be a continual student and you're gonna have to keep learning. The second thing that you need to be okay with, which Naomi said, is you need to be okay making mistakes. Because guess what? You're gonna make them and you can't be perfect all the time. And when you make those mistakes, that's when you learn from them. And I think just to tie that back, you know, to the industry, a lot of affiliate managers miss out on opportunities because they're afraid to make mistakes. They're afraid to deviate from the path of least resistance that they know already works. And you got to make a choice early on in your career. Are you gonna be a vanilla affiliate manager that always does the same thing every month? And that's that's okay. There's a time and a place to do the same things that work. Or are you gonna be a trailblazer that's going to go out there and take risks and try things within reason, not being crazy with your business budget, but having a budget to test lots of different things because this industry moves fast. I mean, you heard Naomi say it five years ago when she came in, she she thought she'd seen a huge event. Now she's running events of 8,000 people in multiple different locations, and it ain't getting any smaller. So, you know, the thing is you're already there. You you need to be testing and learning. And I think you need to you need to look for mentorship if you want to really survive in this industry. And and both of us have had great mentors. We've actually mentored each other, even um, from different aspects of the industry. And it's about asking for what you deserve. And you deserve to be well mentored and well trained as an affiliate manager. And going to events like this to meet people like Naomi, who and I have seen you walk the showroom floor, like every single event that I've ever been to that you've run. You don't hide in the in the organizer's office. You're out there, I've seen you on the floor. Stop her and say hi, you know, and say, Hey, how did you, you know, are you what's your plans? Where do you see the industry? And ask questions from these people because that's how you learn. It's not about sitting, you know, reading newsletters and all of that kind of stuff. It's it's really getting out there and accessing people in the industry to learn what's happening. And you said it yourself, you interview clients all over the world. You you're having those conversations because you want to see what the industry's doing and how the industry's changing and how your events can support that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and you know, fundamentally, we we are, you know, we are there as a platform for the industry, right? We're a community-based live platform for the industry. So we we we we will follow what customers need and want. We'll understand what customers need and you know what their challenges are, but also I'm mentoring somebody at the moment that's just about to go into the affiliate space who has worked on the B2B sides. And actually, again, she she's giving me market knowledge, she's giving me her specific knowledge for what she does on a daily basis, and I can give her some, you know, hopefully some knowledge and experience on the business side, and and therefore that's a really beautiful, like win-win situation. So, my my knowledge and my customer insight is what's going to drive products that customers need and want, and I can give her some tips and tricks because I just, you know, I've been around a little longer and hopefully have learned some stuff along the way. And that relationship is just awesome, and hopefully that will always be the case. So definitely stop me and say hi because I'm always happy to chat, and I'll learn something from you, just like you'll learn something from me, hopefully.
SPEAKER_02Well, let's talk about imposter syndrome because you and I have had long conversations about this, and I think it does affect younger people coming into the industry because there are so many strong female leaders in our industry as well, and it's that middle level before you get to the management level that I'm seeing affiliate managers actually drop off and drop out of this industry, which is sad because they spend time learning this job, they get burnt out because they're not supported, and they end up spinning out into other digital channels, and we're losing skills, we're losing skill set because they're not supported. So let's talk a little bit about imposter syndrome. I mean, both of us have experienced this, and I'm quite happy to be vulnerable on this, and and I'm hoping that you'll do the same. But how does imposter syndrome make you feel? And then what do you do to mitigate it? What are some of the like tips that you can give to affiliate managers listening to this? And and this isn't female or male, like anybody can feel imposter syndrome in their job. And when you start to listen to that, you actually become less efficient in your in your role. So, what are some of the tips that you can give us on that?
SPEAKER_00I was thinking about this just before we started our conversation, and I think I I think it's a work in progress, you know. I think there are days when you feel on top of the world, right? If you've sort of, you know, just mentally you're in a good headspace, you know, you've slept well, you've done a run, things are going well, you've got a run of sort of feeling like you're on top of things, whether it's like, you know, it's at work and at home normally when you're juggling stuff, but actually things seem to be in a fairly orderly place. And then and then there are other times when, you know, you might have had a bad sleep, and you know, one of my kids has lost, lost his football boots and has lost the plot before school, and I've, you know, I'm I've missed a parent's evening and I'm trying to finish a budget, you know, deck or whatever. And suddenly you just think, oh my goodness, like you know, I don't know whether I can do this all, or I don't know whether I can do all these things. And again, I think the biggest thing sometimes is I just have to stop and I have to breathe and literally have to tell myself not to be so hard on myself. So, number one, I do good work, I am enough. That phrase, I am enough, I used to find so hard to say because it's obviously triggered something that was really, you know, quite deep in terms of being like I wasn't. And so it's almost that voice that you just have to be like enough, like I am enough, and I'm not gonna listen to that voice because everyone has that default sort of negative voice sometimes in their head. So refusing to give into it but accepting it. So there's a woman called Susan David who talks a lot about emotional agility who I love, and she talks a lot about naming your emotions, and just being able to say, you know what, I'm feeling a bit like an imposter, like I'm not doing a good job right now, or I feel like I shouldn't, and just being able to step back from it because you you are not your thoughts and you are not your feelings. So if you can label it, you know, it's it's it's not true, it's just how you, it's just how you think, you know, it's just a thought or a feeling, it's not it's not the truth. And being able to step back and do that, and then and then I think number two, you know, just just remembering that you are that you are there just alongside everybody else, and that everybody has these moments because we're human beings, so you know, you wouldn't you would be a bit of a psychopath if you didn't have these sort of natural emotions and the ebb and the flows. And in order to get the positive highs, you have to sometimes have the lows and the doubts. But it ebbs and life ebbs and flows. We are human beings, we're never going to operate, and I don't think I would want to actually uh just a real, you know, never having any sort of emotions, just literally, we're not robots, we're not AI. That's the beauty of human beings. We're not gonna be replaced in that sense because you can't replace the emotional connection with people.
SPEAKER_02And that's well, that's also another reason why I love this industry so much, because that emotional connection with people is what drives this industry forward and makes the magic happen. So why why would you want to take it away, you know?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but you know, and and and I guess the other thing as well is is is is seeking out those people that can can make you feel good. But you know, there is something about having to validate yourself sometimes that's really important that you know I I've had to do a lot of work in that sense to feel you know, to feel good and to tell yourself on a daily basis that what you're doing is good and that it's enough. I think it's that, it's really simple. Just you know, and accepting that some days you are gonna go home and have one of those days where you think, you know what? Wow, that was not a that was not my best day or my best self, you know, and we've all had those. I mean, we have. And so and then accepting that those though, you know, a bit like when you first when I first had a child and I had Holly and she used to wake up, I think, what's wrong with you? What am I supposed to do? How am I supposed to deal with this? And then you'd be like, tomorrow's another day, and you know what I mean? It's just we're all finding our way. So I think accepting like that we're human, like you talked about being vulnerable, that it's okay sometimes to feel like you don't have all the answers, and you probably don't, and that's okay, you know. I think women are so hard on themselves.
SPEAKER_02You know, everybody looks um I and I do have you know, young women coming up to me at events going, Oh, I love what you're doing, and you know, I can't, you know, I want to learn more from you. And I'm thinking, you want to learn from me, I'm still learning from somebody else. Like, you know, it's like I look great and uh above the water and everything, but underneath my feet are going just as fast as yours are. So, you know, it's like nothing is ever perfect from the outside. And I guess if if we just leave young people coming into this industry, because it is very stressful being an affiliate manager, it is you have to know. Little bit about everything, every single part of the digital industry. And right now, I don't think the industry values the skill set that an affiliate manager needs to have. And you know, now you're thinking, okay, you're dealing with imposter syndrome because you're young and you're having to learn everything on the job. There's no university or school of affiliate marketing. It's like everybody's learning this on the job.
SPEAKER_00No, there's no affiliate marketing degree.
SPEAKER_02Like, where is the specific It's like one chapter in a digital degree? So it, you know, and then you have people like me who are coming to teach and train and support and all the rest of it. But then you also have to deal with like major career issues in your life. You know, like, am I good enough at, you know, am I gonna get my raise at the end of the year? That you've got all of this stuff on your shoulders, and then you think, well, and then you, you know, getting married, having children, you throw all of that into the mix, and you think, my goodness, how do we actually, you know, support everybody when and and some people work with great businesses who have like full HR teams and you know, support groups and mental health facilities and everything else. And then some people don't have those experiences. They work with smaller businesses that don't have all of those things plugged in. So where do they go for support? You know, they come to events, they talk to other people, they share a network like we're doing right now, going, yeah, neither of us is perfect, but we're still learning and doing everything that we need to do. And we want to share that story with all of you because you know, you're not alone and you're not the only person feeling this way. And that's why I really wanted to.
SPEAKER_00You know, the biggest thing that I heard, like the biggest, the biggest thing that I heard actually, that I'm really hearing, I'm so passionate about, is is is peer networking, is that I keep, I've had many customer meetings in the last, particularly in the last few months, where where women are crying out for this sort of peer-to-peer networking, and because it can be quite lonely sometimes trying to sort of figure out how to to do things. And so actually, that's something that that we're really going to focus on for IGB Affiliate 24, is to create those peer-to-peer networking opportunities for people who really need and want it, because I think there is a huge desire for it, and and just to bring just to be able to facilitate that and bring people together in that environment to be able to learn from each other is what I'm hearing, particularly our female customers and our you know in this industry really want. So, so we need to do that.
SPEAKER_02So let's talk a little bit about what happens when you experience a setback in your career and and how do you deal with that? And you know, when do you hit the reset button? Like what has been some of your experience? Because I know you manage hundreds of people in Clarion, and you're a very inspirational leader, which is why I brought you onto this podcast to talk about it, because you're not afraid to talk about when things go wrong. How would you recommend that affiliate managers, which are your clients, I mean you speak to them every day? How how do you recommend that women kind of get bounced back from that when things don't go to plan? What happens when things go wrong? How do you how do you make it right? What's your advice?
SPEAKER_00I mean, you won't be surprised to hear that I'll probably refer to the to the pandemic as as a time in recent times where we've really had to dig very deep, as as the whole world did, really, because the whole world stopped ground to a halt, and particularly in in the sector that I'm in, it's an international live events business, so it relies on face-to-face. That's that's the business model, and that business model overnight stopped completely for a good 18 months, and so navigating the challenge and navigating it, a huge a huge amount of people who all felt the same, including myself, didn't matter what level you were at and what you did, everyone was impacted by it, and trying to trying to navigate your team and your people through that at a time when there was a huge global shift and a huge change that was not something we could control. So I think honestly, the answer was to be human and to go back to just trying to work together. I think accepting that emotions at times could be high, that people didn't know what to do, people didn't know how to behave, didn't know how to act, but to just be human about it and to try to work together. It's it's again, it's all the things that whenever I think about navigating challenges, it's always back to the same things of trying to trying to just work work your way through something and and trying to give in to the fact that you're not gonna have all the answers, but you're doing your best to figure it out and to show that you're human side. So it's the same as what I would try to do with my children or my friends or my partner is just to start off with being open about it and saying, you know, what are we gonna do and and be humble. I think being humble because there is a there is a temptation sometimes as a leader to think that you have to know all the answers and you don't, but what you you don't, but and it's okay Sanos to say, you know what? I I remember when my I remember when I first realized my parents didn't have all the answers. I remember my mum saying, I just was I was doing my best, you know, and I was like, that's so true. It's so that's I think it's it's being human, being humble, but also not being afraid sometimes to take people in the direction that you feel is right, because you know, there are two ways that we make decisions, really, really it's data and gut, you know, and actually you're not always gonna have the data. Sometimes you have to take a view on something, and particularly when you're in a position of authority or you have a team that you that are looking to you for, they're looking to you for some guidance and some leadership. And sometimes you have to be the one to stick your head up and say, okay, you know what? We're gonna go this way. This is what I think is the right thing to do.
SPEAKER_02That's the thing that I think affiliate managers listening to this need to take away. Because sometimes you do have to lead your partners, you have to lead your affiliates down where you need them to go because your business has a vision and a strategy, and it is a partnership. But a lot of affiliate managers that I speak to, they're too too afraid to ask their affiliate about doing something differently or trying something differently or doing something bespoke or unique because they get sucked into this. Well, here's the package, this is what you need to do, and that's it, and then they go forward. And I think that's a very, very important point that I want you guys to kind of take away from what Naomi said is you need to kind of review where you are and sometimes just make a gut feel about where you need to be, and then talk that through with whether it's your teammate, your boss, your partner, whoever it is that's involved in that situation, and make that as a mutual decision together because that's all you can do. I mean, that's that's the the kind of honest truth. There is nothing else that we can advise that will tell you any different. There's no one size fits all program, there's no one size, you know, like checkbox of things that you need to do when things go wrong. You just have to sometimes go with your gut, and that means trusting yourself.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I think I think digging in, right? I think something that you know we took we've talked sometimes before about Brene Brown and you know, getting in the ring, like I've got I've got a picture that I I've I've got a picture on my wall at home because I needed to remind myself sometimes it just says I showed up. I showed up, you know, and I say this a lot with my with my team. Yeah, like I just want people to get in the ring and show up sometimes, and hopefully that's the that's the way that I try to build my teams. You know what? If you show up, if you dig in, if we try and figure this out, and and and I guess therefore not having a blame culture, you know, there's something really important about having accountability. That is key in any business, right? We are here to run businesses, to develop businesses, to deliver growth. We are, but there's something different then about, you know, it doesn't, it's like accountability, but um, you know, by the same token, not blame culture.
SPEAKER_02Keeping each other accountable to the outcomes that you're meant to deliver. That's that's pretty much what affiliate marketing is in a nutshell, is keeping each other accountable to the outcomes that you want to have delivered. And having those outcomes clear with your partners is part of the problem when misunderstandings happen. When you haven't been clear about the type of customer, the the value of the customer, the first deposit amount that you're expecting customers to deliver, the games that you're expecting them to play, you know, like that's when misconceptions happen and when misunderstandings happen and when campaigns fail. That's in in my experiences as it's as simple as that. So I think having having an open and honest conversation and having very clear outcomes also avoids mistakes from happening or you know, negative things from happening. But I think that's great. I mean, one of the things that I definitely want to ask you is who do you look up to as inspirational and why? Like what are some of the inspirational leaders that you've kind of followed in your career and why?
SPEAKER_00So I was thinking about this because I think over the years there was a lot that I could think of of people along the way. I remember when, you know, when Cheryl Sandberg first brought her book out. Yeah, she was, you know, she was a pretty unique inspirational leader at the time because she was talking about leaning in and that she she was the first person to really openly and globally talk about this sort of seat at the table. So she was quite impactful. You know, I think I I read something about imposter syndrome the other day because Michelle Obama talks about that all the time. And these are all, yeah, I mean, she's just awesome. And there are, you know, Brene Brown, who obviously talks a lot about vulnerability. So she made a massive impact on my life in terms of her books and her way of thinking because she's a researcher, right? So she's a data-driven researcher, and our the sector that we're operating in is data-driven, it's metrics driven, it's digital marketing, etc. But equally, you know, her research about vulnerability literally connects together all of the data and the research and the sort of sector stuff with the human being, and actually to be really true and emotionally whole, that you have to show vulnerability. And I think that unlocked a lot of things in people, allowing people to be able to show that sort of human side, I think.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so there's three big people there that you guys can go check out if you want to go and read a little bit about leadership and and get a little bit more inspirational. What are some of the things that you're looking forward to changing for affiliates and advertisers in this industry through the events that you direct? So, what are some of the things that you're thinking about for future that you want to see done differently for brands that are coming to IGB events?
SPEAKER_00I think to continually ask the questions about DEI, like diversity, equity and inclusion, and to ensure that this sector plays its part actually and that we educate around why that's important, because we know that the health and wealth of a business, it's not like it was, you know, 10 years ago, where sort of corporate social responsibility and and DEI was something that you you wanted to do to demonstrate that you were, you know, a modern thinking company. It directly impacts the health and wealth of your company and your profits. And females on boards directly impact things like the profit of your business. So we are we have a long way to go. We we still need to be doing things like celebrating that through our content, through our live content on the show floor, ensuring that we set KPIs around, you know, whether it's gender KPIs, diversity KPIs around our speakers, ensuring that we promote our peer networking and our mentoring. We're gonna relaunch Ascend, which is our female mentoring network at IGB Affiliate 24. And I think the main thing is continuing the conversation via our events, but equally creating touch points throughout the year. We have an amazing intelligent business intelligence business, obviously with our digital channel, so Igbaffiliate.com, and we have the opportunity to continue that conversation. So what we don't want to be doing is saying, you know, come to the event and there's two days of this great content, this networking and peer networking opportunities and learning, and then it all just goes dead, actually, to continue that conversation. And so I, you know, again with the mentoring is to continue that online at touch points throughout the year. Uh, have have groups, there's there's various different CEO groups actually that are running now, the women in business and gaming, that that I join in when I can. So the main thing is continuing the conversation, I think, and and not not with the work's never really done. You know, there's not there's not like you reach an end point and then it's finished. It's like there's always something else to promote or um to support, I think. And and so having those conversations that continue around the live events. The events are just the touch point, they're just the moments in time in a whole year of quality partnerships and connection and intelligence and community that that really makes up this sector. So I'd like to continue that peer networking live, you know, online, offline, however we can really. And it's not just that moment in time, it's a continued conversation. It's that, you know, for want of a better phrase, it's you know, but a flywheel, it's a constant, it's a constant conversation. It continues to keep people learning and and growing and developing.
SPEAKER_02I love that because we're all about growth and development, and that's why we have people like you on this podcast. It has been an absolute pleasure to have you on this podcast to talk about leadership, to talk about women in affiliate marketing, to talk about why events are so important for this industry and to really just kind of talk vulnerably together about imposter syndrome, which is something that I hear a lot of affiliate managers talk about. So thank you for coming on. Thank you for sharing your insights on this, and it's been a pleasure to have you on the affiliate marketing podcast this week.
SPEAKER_00Thank you so much, Leanne. It's been a complete pleasure. Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_01This podcast is brought to you by AMP. The Affiliate Manager Performance Program is designed for ambitious affiliate program managers working at brands, agencies, or affiliate networks that are looking to grow and scale their affiliate programs and partner performances. We've already helped hundreds of affiliate program managers from a range of industries get the best out of their affiliate partnerships and build consistent sales within their affiliate programs. With just one hour per week over a 12-week period, this program is unlike any other. You learn proven tactics, test technologies, and access decades of experience with industry veterans who have launched, scaled, and grown multi-million dollar affiliate programs around the world. Book your seat on our next cohort by visiting our website, AfiverseMedia.com, and hit the training menu. From there, you can register your interest for our next cohort launch or simply contact our sales team to find out more. That's a wrap for this week's affiliate marketing podcast. If you're loving what we're putting down, why not head over to Apple IT and give us a five-star review? Make sure to subscribe to our podcast and our YouTube channel so you never miss another entitled episode or one of our free webinars ever again. Tune in next week for more digital affiliate marketing and titles, privates, tips, and content to keep you affiliate and performance marketing on your partner's driving consistent sales.