Hi, my name is Leon Johnston, and I'm the CEO and founder of Affiliate Insider, and you are joining me on the Three Questions podcast, where I'm going to interview some of the industry's most interesting and innovative affiliates and affiliate marketers. With me today, I am joined by Atanas Tane from Website Limited, who is the founder of EphereBet, which is one of the websites that this company owns. Hi Atanas, how are you today?
SPEAKER_02Hello. Hey Al, I'm good. I'm glad that you invite me to speak with you.
SPEAKER_00Thank you so much for joining us. I'm really, really grateful to have you on this podcast today. I wanted to kick start our questions with a little bit of a background as to as to how you got into affiliate marketing and in this particular industry in the sports bidding and casino state and why you've built the websites and the brands that you've launched over the last couple of years.
SPEAKER_02Well, I was working as a freelancer back in 2014 on a project for Ken, and this is when I got familiar with this niche. Then I realized that you need to have serious expertise, detailed reviews, ratings, both from the website authors and also the players themselves. Back then there were just a couple of brands that meet this criteria. And slowly but uh steadily I saw the early signs of success. And uh immediately after this, we have made a transition to the English market. So that's how so that's how it began.
SPEAKER_00And how many websites have you got at the moment?
SPEAKER_02Well, at the moment we uh we're running about uh five or six, uh the the biggest one are four big brands, and the other are just uh projects that we started wrestling.
SPEAKER_00Okay, and what are some of the key lessons that you've learned in building your affiliate business up to where it is today? Because I know you started out quite a few years ago now, but if you can just kind of take our listeners back to what it was like to start your first website and and what sort of effort went into making it to where you are today.
SPEAKER_02Well, uh, probably everybody from this uh industry knows that uh it takes a lot of patience and uh dedication as well as everything else. Uh, a lot of the things that are trendy now, you know that uh they will change tomorrow. So we need to be prepared. During that time, uh, you start to realize that you need to invest mainly in your team as well as in uh different marketing strategies because not everything is working like it worked before. The current situation is proof of just that.
SPEAKER_00And let's talk about that a little bit quickly because I know it's the elephant in the room for everybody that might be listening to this call. Yeah, so how is social isolation working from home, how has that impacted your business, and how are you working to kind of work around it at the moment?
SPEAKER_02Well, working from home is uh not so big deal, you know. So uh we are people that uh uh it could work without any problem from home, yeah. But uh yeah, it's definitely not good uh in this situation. The the main problem is that there aren't so many events, you know. Probably 99% of the sports event was uh cancelled. Yeah, it was cancelled. So mainly now most people from the industry they start to start to point their traffic mainly to caseros. So everything is now very different because uh a lot of companies they like us, uh they usually c uh bet on their sports pool reviews. Uh their traffic is uh mainly from people who love to bet on sports, and uh now they they were forced to switch to casinos.
SPEAKER_00So that switch actually worked because a lot of people are also saying that you know sports betters don't really they're not really interested in casino. So is that just something that you're doing as a short-term pivot, or are you actually seeing some results in terms of people betting on alternative things because sports isn't available right now?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, well, uh about us our goal is to to continue with the casinos, not only with the sports book, but uh definitely um if a lot of people like to gamble, they will uh definitely switch to casinos.
SPEAKER_00And what about esports? Have you guys had a look at what's happening in the esports?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, I was going to tell you this uh lately. Esports uh they're also trendy, and I believe that they will continue to reach success in the upcoming years.
SPEAKER_00Awesome. So there's definitely opportunity, even though there's a downturn in one sector, there's opportunities happening in others. And as a business, you're looking into those those sectors because you can, you can move quite quickly when the market changes. But also, how are you how is that impacting your marketing strategy? Because you mentioned that a little bit earlier, where you said that as an affiliate and as a growing affiliate business, you're having to always keep an eye out for what's changing in the marketplace. So, really, has COVID made you sort of look at alternative strategies faster than what you normally would, or is it more or less business as usual for you?
SPEAKER_02Well, for us was very uh difficult because uh we were we are very familiar with the sports group and uh probably everything that uh we're that we did till this moment was uh mainly for this, but uh now we we were forced to change uh our strategy. Now the first thing we did was uh creating uh different content which was strictly related to casino reviews. We start to work with uh lots of brands uh and uh also our SEO strategy. Now it is uh very different from the first uh class we got.
SPEAKER_00And that's obviously, I mean, making such a huge pivot in such a short space of time is obviously quite a costly exercise for you guys, for your team, um, you know, for your content writers. And I wanted to sort of talk a little bit about that because I think a lot of affiliate managers in in our industry they don't really ever get to see the inside or the inner workings of an affiliate business. So, what sort of advice can you offer to affiliate managers that that you may or may not be working with that could maybe help them to understand what happens in an affiliate business when change happens like this and how they can maybe help you to pivot through that change? Um, you know, are there any tactics or services or um you know ideas that you can give to affiliate managers that might be listening on this podcast today?
SPEAKER_02Well, you know, the the business with the their work at all. I mean, uh the things that they are doing, it's uh it's uh very different. This is normal because they have so many different tasks uh as managers. They uh they want results from us, but at the same time their working process is a lot different uh than ours, as I said. So I understand uh perfectly. My advice to them is to uh always be in contact with uh their partners to keep these contact and not just uh via uh email, you know, but also in person. I often request from my managers to provide me with uh everything that's new, such as uh new license information, new offers, and so on. So we we can act uh immediately.
SPEAKER_00Okay, so communication is really key at the moment in general.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, exactly, exactly.
SPEAKER_00Not just a monthly newsletter that goes out telling you about their products, but actually to have a physical human uh account manager that you can sort of talk to and and discuss issues with. Yes, exactly. Okay, and how many, um just out of interest, how many sort of affiliate managers do you deal with on a like monthly basis? Like how many brands are you currently working with at the moment, actively working with?
SPEAKER_02Um we are working uh at uh at the moment with more than uh 200 brands, I guess. Yeah, even even more, but uh on a daily basis, we uh I'm communicating with uh probably 20 people, 20 affiliate managers.
SPEAKER_00Okay. And do you sort of account every day? Do you do you sort of account manage the affiliate managers like affiliate managers account manage affiliates? Is there like sort of an 80-20 rule where the programs that have the most um real estate or or the most um conversion, do they get a personal account manager on your side, or do you deal with everybody equally?
SPEAKER_02Well, it's uh depending uh on the brand. And uh some brands they have uh different uh how to say it, uh not not every not every brand can afford to give you a personal attitude and personal manager only for you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So it's it's good for us. Uh we can we can uh require and uh request for personal uh affiliate account manager if we if we got some really impressive results. If we don't have uh you know it's it's not it's not okay for us because we we we will not have so many work with the guy.
SPEAKER_00Okay, so relationships really do matter when it comes to working with a brand. It's not just about the conversion and all the payment that you're receiving from the brand, it's about the relationships with the brand and the account managers that you have to deal with on a day-to-day basis. Absolutely, yeah. Okay, that's good to know. Um, you know, there's been a lot of talk about, I just want to kind of move on to regulation and um a lot of you know recent fines happening. Do you think affiliates should be regulated and apply for licenses to operate in regions like they are in the US? And you know, how are you guys looking to maybe expand into other markets like that?
SPEAKER_02Well, uh, if you ask me, I think uh that regulations are uh something really good and uh they have a positive impact. Uh we we sustain our websites thanks to the information that we get from the affiliate managers, but uh personally for me the the affiliate partners shouldn't be under any uh regulations because they they just follow the orders of the companies. All of uh these regulations will just overcomplicate the situation, you know. This is my uh personal opinion.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, okay. So as an entrepreneur, this brings me on to my last question. What sort of advice would you give to your younger self? And I know you and I had a very long conversation at the London Affiliate Conference where this um you know podcast came about, um, in terms of your entrepreneurial journey becoming an affiliate, and what sort of advice would you give to other affiliates that are coming into this space, which is quite competitive? Um, and and how would you advise them to set up and run their businesses?
SPEAKER_02If I if I have to do it, I I can say uh there's a long road ahead of you. So be ready for a lot of challenges and difficult moments. Uh, I would also advise uh you said what I can advise myself if I was younger. Yes, I would advise uh myself not to take things so seriously uh and to believe that everything will be okay. There will be a lot of mistakes, but uh success comes only to those who are uh how to say brave enough to get it. So uh of the competitors and other persons, they just uh have to enjoy the journey.
SPEAKER_00So wise of you to say that because uh you know I speak to a lot of entrepreneurs every day, and I myself am an entrepreneur. I mean, I've started a new business in the last two years, and I think you hit the nail straight on the head there by saying that you need the experiences of failure in order to learn. And whilst it's incredibly painful to have failure, it is one of the best ways to learn. Can you maybe share a little bit more about that point in your business? Because I know that you know you've worked incredibly hard to get the business to where it is today, with a lot of, you know. I mean, I think I remember you saying to me that, you know, even your parents were asking you when are you gonna go get a proper job?
SPEAKER_02Um, remember this. We talked about this a little uh yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00And you know, I think that's the one thing, the one key message that I thought was so brilliant from you as an entrepreneur is that you know, the failure is okay. It's okay to make mistakes because that's how you're gonna learn. But to have the bravery to continue and to persevere at it, I think that's when you become successful. Um, and that's definitely been your story, and it's one of the things that really touched me about meeting you in person and hearing your journey. And I really want to thank you for sharing that with our listeners today as well.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, thank you. I uh it was a pleasure for me to meet you in uh London. Also, uh, like you said, I think that most people they are only talking uh and they only want they are the persons that I I I call them wannabe. Most of them they just wanna be. Yeah. So that's why I say it's uh it's a very it's a very it's very hard to reach something like this. And uh at the same time, when you look carefully, you realize that you you're uh on the start. So patience and dedication is uh probably the best thing that uh I can advise not on not only the others but uh myself in future. So like we we talk about the uh the market changing for affiliates and uh the different opportunities that they they they can pursue in the next two, three years in our interview.
SPEAKER_00Amazing. Okay, just uh before we end off our podcast today, what are your thoughts about what's going to happen in the next sort of 18 months as we come out of social isolation as the COVID pandemic sort of um peters off? And we do hope that it does um peter off. Where do you think you're gonna be focusing your efforts in future with your team? Because I know you're you're extremely passionate about the people that you work with and that you brought into the business. So, what where do you think the future of iGaming lies?
SPEAKER_02Uh well, the the addition of uh many different sports has a positive impact on the market.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um more countries uh starting to welcome the betting and casino industry, such as uh some African countries uh as well as uh uh also Mexico, Portugal, and a lot more. So I think that uh this country they they have a future uh about about this industry. So my advice is to the people they can uh also think about this market. This is a huge market, so it's definitely worth it. So also like uh we we we talk uh esports, yes, they are also uh uh trendy, and uh I believe that they will continue to to read this success in the in uh uh the coming years.
SPEAKER_00Okay, thank you so much for sharing your time with us today. I know I asked you slightly more than three questions, but I really appreciate you taking the time out to you know share some of your insights and share your experience with some of our listeners. It has been a great pleasure to have you on this podcast with me, and I'm really looking forward to seeing you at future events again soon.
SPEAKER_02Sure, thank you too, dear. It was a pleasure for me.
SPEAKER_00Amazing, thank you so much.