Hi everyone and welcome to the Three Questions podcast with me, Leanne Johnston, CEO of Affiliate Insider. I am joined today by Martin Hanna, who is a content marketing guru and the founder of Ghost Foundry. Hi Martin.
SPEAKER_01Hi Leanne, how are you?
SPEAKER_00I'm fine, thank you. Thanks very much for joining me today. I know we've got some really interesting things to talk about in terms of content marketing, which is our theme for this month. So I'm going to kick off this podcast with the question that really I get asked the most, which is why is content marketing so important right now for affiliates and affiliate managers? What are your thoughts on that?
SPEAKER_01So for from our side as a as a content marketing agency and as a as a writer myself, for affiliates in particular, it's their entire um kind of model is really around SEO, or for the vast majority is around SEO. And at the heart of that nowadays, it's it's content. So any any affiliate wanting to sort of start in the industry or to grow what they already have, content has to be the driving force behind that. There are other elements that come into this, you know, some affiliates focus more on PPC, some focus on above-the-line advertising, but all that again ties back to content. Um, and that's why it's it's so important to not only have a strategy in place and to make sure you're creating the content that your audience is looking for, whether that be you're drawing your audience out of Google or whether it be that you're using social media to drive them to a page, they have to be coming to good quality content. Otherwise, even if you bring them in, they're just going to go and bounce back out again.
SPEAKER_00So there's a lot of things about quality content, and the first thing is audience engagement. I mean, content really drives your audience to your site, but it also keeps them there, as you've just said. So, what are some of the things that you can do on a really tight budget? Because we know that it's expensive to create content, um, you know, valuable content, but what are some of the key tips that you can give to affiliates and also program managers about building brand awareness and you know driving the customer audience engagement through some of the tips and tools and tactics that you use in your agency? So give us give us some of the dirt in terms of budget and cost-effectiveness.
SPEAKER_01So I would say that anyone that is an affiliate has some confidence in their ability as a writer, otherwise, you you wouldn't be in this game given how how important content is. So anyone that's here in the first place has some ability to write. Um, it's like anything, there'll be people that are that are slightly weak content writers, all the way up to people that are very skilled and and and qualified and very good at it. Um if if you are at the sort of bottom end of that skill bracket, um, it's about your planning and you know, thinking about the pages. You will know that the the certain pages that your audience um will be searching for, or certain queries that your audience is is going to be looking for in Google. You need to be focusing on those pages in particular. So if it's a budget thing, if you have zero budget, you know, identify these big pages, look at what your competitors are doing and doing well. Don't copy them. Um you know, Google is is very strict on duplicate con duplicate content, so don't don't copy word for word. Um but you can use that as a starting point. So if it's you know you're looking for new online casinos as as a as a page that you're going for, there is no harm in looking at what they've done. Um I would always look at structure over how things are written.
SPEAKER_00Um what do you mean by structure?
SPEAKER_01How the pieces laid out. So um what what do you start with? It there can be a focus too much for on the SEO element and on um keywords and things like that. You still have to deliver, like we were just saying, the the right experience to the person when they land on the page. So what's the first bit of information they're looking for? Why are they coming there in the first place? Um, you know, is it that you need a little introduction that says, you know, take your new online casinos page as an example that just outlines what a new online casino is? It sounds simple, but it some people might not know, or or it might just be that they're looking for that introduction and then they're looking for a list of casinos to come below it, and then they're looking for more in-depth information further down. What should come where? You know, when you're talking about new online casinos, is it the bonus offer that they want to read about or the different bonuses available? Or is it more about whether there's loyalty schemes available? Is it the banking method? So just look at what is put and where it's put. There is reasons behind that.
SPEAKER_00I think that's also true for affiliate managers and affiliate programs too. So while you know, while we're talking about content marketing from an affiliate's perspective, for the affiliate program managers, often you get, you know, if you're a new affiliate and you're coming to have a look at a brand, you go to that affiliate web page, and half the time, you know, what you earn as a commission isn't even shown on the top of the page. So, you know, the content and the structure of how you display the content that you want to give to your end users is super important from that perspective as well. Um, now we spoke a little bit before we got on this podcast about outsourcing content um creation. So a lot of affiliates do, you know, they do write their own content, but they also want to find agencies or service providers that can help them or write content writers even that can help them to create you know differentiated content and add value to what the user is experiencing. What are some of the top tips that you can give to people when looking to outsource content? Like what are the things that you look for if you are looking to hire end writers?
SPEAKER_01Um, so definitely experience is is very, very important here. Um the gambling sector, casino sector is is very, very competitive, whether you're an affiliate or an operator. Um your content really has to stand out and it has to have so much authority and understanding behind it. There are agencies out there that have the content writing skill, but they perhaps don't have the very, very specific knowledge for the for the gambling sector or the casino sector, and even market-to-market, you know, regulation, licensing. Um, it's if you know what you do in the UK and how you would target UK players, hugely different to what you would do if you were targeting players or affiliates in India from the operator side. So experience is very important. Um, so look for an agency that that has that. Look at who's actually writing the content as an extension of that. Um some larger agencies will have big teams of content writers, they're all very good writers, but is anyone within that team, you know, have they perhaps worked on a um you know a gambling industry publication? Have they what what are what have they done? Who who who is writing your content for you? Um it's probably something that isn't asked very often, but it should be it's it's your content that's getting created, you should know who's actually doing it. Um other things to think about, um how they work with you. Um, are they looking to kind of collaborate with you on your content? Do they understand who you are, what what your point of difference is? Um again, it's such a competitive sector. You need to have your own brand, you need to have your own voice. Can they capture that? Are they skilled enough as writers to, you know, if you can't say it yourself, can they say it for you in the way that you want it to be said?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I mean, is it is it kind of normal to give people a like test, you know, to get them to test write a piece of content to see how that fits? Would that be standard in terms of outsourcing content or would you have to pay for it a test?
SPEAKER_01Um, I would say it depends if you're working, if you are if you're trying to bring in an agency to help you, um, they're probably not going to do that for you, but they should have case studies that can showcase what they've done. That comes a proportion, um, which we can touch on in a little bit. Um if it's an individual writer, they may be willing to do something for free, but again, if they've got the experience that you need, they should be able to point you to stuff that they've done in the past. Yeah, yeah. So I don't I don't think people should really work for free if you're employing someone because they they are skilled enough and uh you know you're wanting something from them, they they shouldn't have to do that for nothing, but they should be able to showcase what what they've done previously.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Now tools, we spoke a little bit about you know the SEO keywords and getting focused in terms of looking at your competitors. Are there any specific tools that you would recommend affiliates could use that would help them to um you know create and curate their content if they're on a budget?
SPEAKER_01So so um we use ahrefs. Um it's one of the more expensive tools, but we see it very much as being worth worth the cost of that. Um Neil Patel has his own version of it.
SPEAKER_00I think Uber suggests, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Okay, it if you really are on a tight budget, it it will help. Uh but Ahrefs by far is is is the tool that we use, and we find it very, very valuable um in terms of you know uh tracking how content's performing, um keyword gaps, uh, how pages are moving around. Um, you can obviously see what your competitors are doing. Like I said, I recommend copying word for word what they've done. But you can see what's working and what isn't, and it's very, very valuable in that sense. Um, and like I said, to us, it's it's worth the cost as an agency to pay for that. Um if you're a you know a single person affiliate, I would try and budget that in to your your your business costs. We see it as being that central to enabling us to create the content that we do. Um without that, it would be very, very difficult.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so you need to have that structure, you need to have that strategy in place because otherwise you're literally just creating content for the sake of creating content and it's not actually going to drive traffic or sales or revenue into your business. So, just on our last question, um, and you know, I talk about bootstrap budgets right now because we're all coming out of a pandemic, we're all looking at ways to kind of bootstrap our marketing and make sure that it's working really hard for our businesses, whether you're an affiliate or an affiliate program manager. Where do you think affiliates and affiliate managers should focus their efforts right now to get the most out of their content planning strategy? Like what if you had like just three things that you could give us to do to focus on right now to make a difference in our businesses, what would those three things be?
SPEAKER_01So I would I would use this time to take stock. Um, you sort of touched on it then, it's very easy to get lost in the world of content, knowing what to write, not what to write, what to prioritize, um, word counts, all this sort of stuff. So um have a long-term vision and as a part of that, understand every single page that you want on your website. That will continue to grow. It's a never-ending goal that you're chasing with it. Um, but but try and have a 12-month plan at best, you know, at minimum, have a 12-month plan um and break that down into monthly sections. So again, it is budget-dependent, time-dependent, but in order to really get a handle on content creation and management, you need to set yourself small goals. So month by month is perfect. It might be that you do two pages a month, it might be that you do six. It depends entirely on your ability to get that content written, whether it's down to budget or time. We start to work through the strategy that you that you have to get to where you want to be.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, so that's the that's the best thing to do in terms of getting a sort of a handle on your your whole content situation, if you like. Um, in terms of sort of next steps from that, focus on the pages that are going to bring you the most value.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_01It doesn't always have to be high traffic pages. Um, some of the sites we work with, the pages that we create that are very, very high traffic pages ultimately have lower conversion rates than some of the smaller traffic pages. So there's a lot to be said for identifying um more niche search terms or or niche clone tail and long tail and focusing on those. Um, we can have a lot of success from that. It's far less competitive. It's often that those players coming or or those customers coming. Um they're searching for such niche terms that they're exactly the sort of customer you're looking for or player you're looking for. Um, I said earlier, anyone that's already in the affiliate business, or certainly as an affiliate, um, has some level of competency when it comes to creating content. The more you create, the better you get. Learn from the people out there that are doing very well. Um, do not copy them, but learn from them, think about structure, think about ultimately the person reading it. So, like I said, there's there's a huge focus on SEO in terms of keywords and ranking, but unless you're delivering the answers that people are looking for, then those players or customers are just going to bounce straight back off your site.
SPEAKER_00I mean, that that does actually also feed into kind of like voice search in terms of how you're creating your content and what your content strategy is and what the the keywords are that you're trying to target. I mean, all of those things need to be considered when when you're creating your content because it is going to be picked up in different ways on different devices and also in different like channels. So you're going to speak a question and want an answer, or are you going to be typing a question and want an answer? So totally it resonates with that and with what you're saying. In terms of the content management piece though, um, what are the sort of tools and things that you use for that? Are there any specific tools that affiliate can maybe use? I know we use Asina in our business. Are there any content management tools or tips outside of AHREX and Uber suggests that you can maybe just close off on our podcast today?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, sure. So in terms of management, we tend to use Trello. Oh, okay. Yeah, we're big Trello users. Um, if we're working on a page or if we have a site that we're creating a lot of content for, we map everything out in Trello. So it's all it's all there, it's very visual, but equally we can assign tasks, we can move stuff into pending, completed. It really sort of helps with the workflow. And as we've said earlier, content can become it's almost chaotic, and you can get lost in it and get distracted by it. If you've got everything just in one place, all mapped out, it makes it so much easier to stay on top of. And the best thing with Trello is if you're on a budget, it's free.
SPEAKER_00Oh, well, we like free because we're all on a budget, so that's amazing. Um, I might go and have a look at that myself, to be honest. Um, okay, so you've kind of told us what to do in terms of planning and strategy, you've given us some tools that we can use if we're bootstrapping our content market strategy, you've told us how to kind of be authentic in terms of looking at your competitors and then implementing that into your business. Give us one last thing that we can think about for our content marketing strategies as we come out into what I call the next normal, which is not our new normal because we don't really know what that's going to be. But what's the one thing that you can just leave us with today on the podcast?
SPEAKER_01I think just keep confident or keep you know keep your confidence in the content you're creating, keep pushing it out there. Unlike other forms of marketing, once it's once it's live on your site, it's it's there forever.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01It takes an initial investment either in time or money to get that content there. Um, but once it's there, it's forever doing the job it's intended to do, which is to draw draw in an audience. So it's been a difficult six months for a lot of people and a lot of businesses. Um now's the time to, if anything, push ahead with your with your content. It's something you can do yourself. If you're on a small budget, it doesn't cost you anything. You can write it yourself, you can research it, you can do the whole thing yourself, publish it yourself, promote it yourself. You don't have to spend a penny on it. So now is the time to ramp up your efforts. You know, if you're in your plan, you try and do two pieces a month, do four. You know, get out there now, especially if you're an SEO affiliate or any business that relies on SEO. Um, some of your competitors will have taken their foot off the gas over the last few months. Now's the time. If you've done it over the past four months, brilliant. But if you haven't been, or you've been one of those people that's dropped off a little bit, now is the time to really ramp up your ramp up your efforts, ramp up your output, keep checking back on what you've done, keep tracking, keep monitoring. SEA changes all the time, search terms, queries, all that. Everything's moving all the time. So don't just create it and forget about it. Create it and and continue to love it and look after it and grow it. Um, but you can do it without having to spend a lot of money.
SPEAKER_00Thank you so much for spending your time with us today. I really appreciate your insight into content marketing because it's a really important um part of anybody's digital strategy. So I just want to thank you for coming onto the podcast and for sharing this insights with us. And we look forward to hopefully seeing Coast Foundry again soon in the flesh.
SPEAKER_01Thank you for having me, and thank you very much.