Hi and welcome to the Affiliate Insider Podcast with me, Leanne Johnston. This is a podcast for digital and affiliate marketers. Listen up as I explore the latest digital and affiliate marketing trends and give you the insider scoop on what's occurring in affiliate marketing. Join us as we explore affiliate strategies, host expert interviews with leading affiliates and tech entrepreneurs, and discuss the latest affiliates and digital marketing trends. If you want to stay at the cutting edge of affiliate marketing, you're in the right place. Join me for this week's episode and let's get started.
SPEAKER_00If you're looking to launch an affiliate program but aren't 100% sure where or how to start, put your best foot forward and book a free agency call with us today. Affiliate Insider offers a range of agency services from strategy and consulting to technical integration, affiliate recruitment, and in-depth program audits. Our team will help you plot the right course, save you time to launch and scale a successful affiliate program and strategy. As one of the UK's top 50 rated agencies as ranked by the Drum's Digital Agency Census, we've helped hundreds of brands launch and grow multi-million dollar programs across a range of industries. Why not book a free scoping call and let us help you expand your reach with successful affiliate marketing? Visit affiliateinsider.com and click on agency to find out more.
SPEAKER_03Welcome back to Affiliate Insiders affiliate marketing podcast with Lindy Ann Johnston. And today I'm absolutely thrilled to be joined by somebody who has loads of experience in affiliate marketing, Linda O'Connell, who is the Senior Vice President of CJ UK. Welcome, Linda.
SPEAKER_04Thanks, Gleanne. I am very excited to be here and thanks so much for having me on your fabulous podcast.
SPEAKER_03Thanks so much. So today we're going to be talking about affiliate marketing around the world, which is the theme that we have for our podcast this season. And with CJ being one of the biggest and probably most established affiliate networks, if I could give you that title. For anyone that's listening, let's start at the beginning of the story. Can you give us a little brief history of the network and how you came to be working as the SVP there?
SPEAKER_04You're right. So CJ was founded way back in 1998 in uh lovely sunny Santa Barbara in California, where our offices are still there as commission junction, which people sometimes still call us now. Then shortly after we launched in the UK and across Europe and quickly became uh, you know, a largest and most established player in the affiliate space. So we work with tons of global brands, obviously giving them distribution and reach across the largest pool of publishers across all continents. And most recently, CJ, we're now under Publisers Group, which is fantastic and really proving to be a great home for CJ. They understand they value your business and certainly invested heavily in the channel. We're doubling in our engineering resources and our client-facing teams. So it's a really exciting time for us. Um, my history, so I started back in 2005 in our London office. Um, and I actually started in our sales team as a business development executive. But my background was actually always client services. So after a while, I moved over to our client development team and worked there, worked my way up. And my family and I actually moved back to Dublin and Ireland, which is where I'm I'm located at the moment. And actually at that stage, we at CJ, we were very much, that's probably around 2009, really working a lot more with international brands. And we had a lot of well-known US brands who were looking to come into Europe and then expand across there. So I headed up our international team, working across all of our teams, across all of our offices. So there's a lot of collaboration, and we have learned so much from that, which I'm hoping to share with you today. But yeah, I quickly became then part of our UK leadership team, heading up our client development team in the UK. And now more recently, I'm heading up our UK office. So little did I know back in 2005 that I would have ended up, you know, SVP of CJ UK. So it's been a pretty amazing journey and very grateful for all friends and colleagues within the industry that have supported the journey.
SPEAKER_03This actually wanted to just segue quickly before we move into our questions, because yeah, in one of our previous podcasts, we've actually spoken about what is the career path of people coming into this industry. And you've just heard it right here. There are so many different types of ways to splice and bust your career and get to really, really senior positions within the affiliate marketing industry, which is something quite exciting, I think, for maybe young graduates that are listening to this podcast and interested in getting into the affiliate industry. So thanks so much for sharing that career projection. Because I think people don't really understand all the different types of roles that go into this industry. And you know, the more we talk about our career paths and how we've actually got to where we've got to over all of these years, it helps the younger generation to just understand that. So thanks for sharing that.
SPEAKER_04Absolutely. And that's what's rewarding, right? Is that with a lot of junior graduates that join and they've worked their way up and either worked across our different offices around the world as well. So yeah, no, it's it's a great industry to be in.
SPEAKER_03So we're going to talk a little bit about affiliate marketing in Europe and the UK because this is quite an established and mature industry as far as affiliate marketing goes. I mean, I've been in it for 20 years now, and I think other regions around the world, which is what we're exploring in this podcast, are at different stages. But I wanted to get you on because you've kind of been there since the very beginning and you've seen the market mature, and you can share some of the insights and things that you've learned working with different clients around the world at CJ. But what marketing are you seeing right now growing pretty fast where affiliate marketing is really making the leap forward around the world outside of where we are here in the UK?
SPEAKER_04You know, look, we obviously have tons of data across our network and we look at those trends, but it's amazing to see on the back of COVID just how the pandemic has accelerated that huge shift in online shopping in the past 18 months. So it's really helped to drive the affiliate channel, which I think we've all experienced across all markets, right? Even in kind of mature markets, which we've certainly seen across our network. We actually recently hosted our annual event, CJU, and our president Mayor spoke about as well how the pandemic has reset that growth of global e-commerce. And we spoke about their stats from eMarketer, right? They broke out that percentage change in e-commerce sales growth by region in 2020, and worldwide it grew by 28%.
SPEAKER_03Amazing.
SPEAKER_04But one of the largest growths was in Latin America, which is, you know, by over 37%. And we're seeing those similar trends, but also even parts of Europe like Eastern Europe, for CJ as a network, you know, we've seen that kind of sector um in parts of Europe, countries like Czech Republic, Slovakia, Poland really significantly grow. We partner exclusively with Viv Networks, who are basically our CJ in Eastern Europe and have a very much dominant presence. So it's really amazing to see, you know, the affiliates, the publisher models, like your cashback vouchers, but also now it's expanding into some of those publisher models, your influencers, a content, you know, becoming quite prominent in advertising strategies, right? In the brand strategies. But also, I guess those kind of markets that are emerging are your Latin America, Asia Pacific. We're seeing progressively develop, certainly in regards to affiliate marketing and regions also that at CJ we've been investing in for quite a number of years. We created a dedicated publisher development team. They're focusing on helping a lot more of those publishers grow and educate them as well within those markets. I think mobile commerce is, you know, really heavily driven there as well. So ensuring that publishers have mobile optimized content if a brand is thinking about working with publishers there. You know, China that offers a huge opportunity, but it's quite dominant by those platforms like WeChat and getting in there as well. And it's also not just a matter of copying what's done in Europe and in the US. So you can't just do the same, right? In these markets, there's so much more of a complex culture differences and languages and local nuances. Like Southeast Asia is also another growth area that we've seen where there's affiliate marketing is certainly growing a lot more. And we're seeing a lot more growth of transactions and sales being driven a lot more from those regions, and something that at CJ we're certainly supporting and enabling our brands and clients that are on the network to expand into those markets as well.
SPEAKER_03So you spoke a little bit there about educating publishers. I think that's something that brands forget. You know, they just create their affiliate program and they think, okay, it's all open now and everybody's going to want to come and work with me. But they forget that publishers are at different stages of their business maturity lifecycle. So talk a little bit about some of the things that you've maybe seen in that whole education process with publishers and how spending that time with them can actually help improve your program sales as well.
SPEAKER_04Exactly. Yeah. So it's a crucial part that that certainly is a network CJ invests in and educating those publishers. And it's more about understanding both on the advertiser sides and the brand sides of how to work with those publishers. But what we also spend of a lot of our time as well, it's more about standards and procedures and the right ways of working within the affiliate landscape, like what's allowed, what's not allowed. Um, and in these emerging markets, that's where we're, you know, we invest very heavily in our network quality department and what we call our compliance. So there's been a lot of educating publishers on the right way of working and abiding by that different advertisers have different terms and conditions that they might allow you to brand bid, but others won't, or they'll work with you. So there's a lot as well of understanding the publishers have to recognize that not all advertisers have got the same requirements and that they have to comply with what those regulations are in order for them to have a healthy and productive partnership with those brands. So that's a key area in a lot of the mature markets that we're working on as well, making sure that that compliance, that integrity, right? Because it all goes back to the integrity of the affiliate channel, which within Europe and you know in the UK certainly and in the US, we've come on leaps and bounds, and it's a very much respected and reputable channel. So certainly on the education side, there's that element of it. And then it's more about how some of these publishers are going to work with different verticals and understanding travel advertisers, they're not going to pay you commission until they know that that person has booked because people can book uh, you know, so far in advance, but then it could be cancelled, right? So it's a difficult situation. I know even some of our travel publishers in the UK have challenges with that as well. But from a from a brand's perspective, it's you know something that they have to manage in terms of managing their spend.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And I mean, you know, for small medium enterprises that are looking to get into the filler channel, like they don't often understand what is the value behind working in a network. And I just want to like point this out, this is it. It's the fact that every publisher that you then connect with in the network is getting this type of training and education so that they can work compliantly with you. It's not just about the technology and the tracking solution that the network provides, it's about the kind of background services that happen without you even knowing as a client. Because that's often the thing that I get asked from the kind of management perspective is well, what am I paying all of this money for? That's what you're paying the money for. To actually make sure that when you're in the network, the people that are there have been vetted and approved and understand how to work compliantly with you. And there's almost like an extra level of protection. Exactly. Yeah. So what are some of the things that brands here in Europe have kind of leapfrogged in affiliate and performance marketing that other countries are maybe only starting to learn as they emerge? Like what are some of the big things? Like you've spoken about Ford and compliance, but what else is there that maybe you can share?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, so I think one of the beauties and why I love this industry is that the performance model, right, is meeting consumer needs and trends. And again, like we spoke, the pandemic is such a great example of where it's completely changed consumer needs. And what we've seen is how our publishers, they've risen to the occasion to meet these new needs. So we've seen a lot more new models like your buy now, pay later. So it's helping those consumers, right, to facilitate purchasing those products that they can pay for over a certain number of months or to really help with their financial situation. And also, I think in the EU markets, brands, they're very much well versed and experienced in affiliate marketing. So they're probably quicker now, I feel, to pick up these kind of models, maybe than other emerging markets. I think where in the EU where brands are quicker to test and experiment, which is really crucial to continuing pushing the boundaries of your affiliate program and looking for those new pots of reaching the consumers because that's really how you're gonna take your program to another level. But a good example as well as like technology publishers, like your RevLifters, Yield Defy, you know, they've really helped to further optimize that consumer journey and also enhance the conversions, which we've seen huge growth in Europe and in the US, but in less mature markets, they're probably slower to uptake the kind of model, perhaps potentially due to the technical implication. But you know, that's where I guess DJ as well, that's what you're paying for, where we take that hassle away for our brand. So we enable brands to easily be able to work with these kind of technology providers. I also think in Europe now, affiliate marketing, we've kind of leaped frog or or certainly are a lot more advanced now in exploring different ways in terms of commissioning models. And CJ released a product quite a few years ago in terms of what we call situational commissioning. So it really enables our clients to really look at how they're commissioning, be it by product, but also enabling additional what we call situation. So is it a new customer? Have they used a voucher code? Is it, you know, a customer that's part of their brand loyalty program? So you're able to manipulate your commission, that it's more valuable for you, more profitable for you, but yet at the same time rewarding for the publisher and also helping the publishers understand and identify what are the kind of consumers that are valuable for the advertisers that they're working with. So I think that's certainly something that we've seen in Europe, which maybe some of those emerging markets are not at that stage yet, but no doubt we'll get there very quickly. And also how you work with your publishers. When I first started way back when, it was, oh, I'm going to give this flat commission rate to a publisher and let's just see how they go. But now it's more so much more depth. Yeah, right. You've got tenancy opportunities, right? To really target again consumers in in particular, you know, whatever their demographic might be. But also working, for instance, with voucher publishers. We've seen great performance from brands who have potentially also given them permission to bid on certain search terms, right? So with their brand name but plus voucher or whatever. And that's really cost effective for advertisers because it's not cannibalizing on their PPC, right? Because that's normally the first concern that you get. Yeah, but it really complements the strategy, the old PPC strategy. And it's really cost effective for the advertiser because it's the publisher who's going to be bidding on those terms, but the advertiser is just paying for the completed sale at the end of the day or whatever, whatever the action might be.
SPEAKER_03And I think that's a life cycle that you and I have seen in our lifetime because you know it started out, oh, affiliates with the new shiny thing. Let's try it. And then it was like, hang on a moment, these guys are like cannibalizing our marketing. We need to restrict them, restrict them. And now all of a sudden we're getting this, no, they're actually an extension of our marketing team. Let's bring them back in and talk to them about how we can really partner at a deep level. So it's almost like we've seen this relationship model like, you know, go from you know, start to middle, and and we're now at like sort of like the end of the chapter of the book. But it's interesting to see how that relationship is going to expand further as we get better technology and as we get better data to make more, you know, it informative decisions like what you've just spoken about.
SPEAKER_04And that's actually a key point, Leanne, as well, is that I think in Europe now, in in the kind of more mature markets, it is about looking at the data and understanding the whole consumer journey as well, which I'm sure we'll we'll talk about in more detail. But yeah.
SPEAKER_03It's a big part of what I'm speaking about right now and in terms of making sure that programs are segmented properly, because I'm always teaching my team, you know, make sure that we're not top-heavy in any one type of affiliate or any one type of publisher. Yeah. Okay, so getting back to some of the juicy questions that I wanted to ask you. So, knowing what you know about this market, if you're a small brand and you want to get into more of a global reach to find new customers, what's the biggest piece of advice that you can give to an SME starting out as they tune into our show today?
SPEAKER_04Wow, gosh, there's so much advice. Can't pack it into like a 30-minute session, but I know, I know. So, yeah, I mean, obviously, as I said, look, we we work with so many global plans, grow big and small over the years. So we have taken so much of learning, so we're able to apply and help them. I think probably the biggest piece of advice, which seems very obvious, but it's amazing how it's not so obvious, is that you have to understand the market that you want to go into. You have to understand the local nuances. Europe is not one country, and there's lots of different languages, there's lots of local nuances, even you know, obviously, language currency is top of mind, very key, but also local payment models. In Germany, people pay on an invoice for you know their online goods. So, you know, it's not like they pay immediately. So you have to have a good understanding of the kind of the local market. More importantly, knowing, you know, what are the right publishers and what are the types of relationships that you need to leverage. And that's right again, where this is where CJ, right? Your network is going to help you do that and introduce you, especially as an unknown player coming into a market. You know, you're not going to get that premium exposure immediately. And you need to be able to be creative and innovative of how you're going to work with some of those publishers. It's not necessarily just going to be a straight CPA. That's not always going to do it. So you need to potentially look at tenancies or giving them exclusive offers or, you know, different levers that you can pull to really ensure that you're getting as much exposure with those top publishers. So I guess the biggest piece is that localization that you can certainly dabble in some of the markets. And obviously, if language is like English, like in Australia or something like that, that also helps. But the good thing, right, about e-commerce and affiliate marketing is that you not just marketing to the UK, right? You already have a global audience and an audience that you can reach and you can tap into those publishers. And also, there's so many publishers now that actually have a global reach themselves. So we're seeing so many who traditionally maybe were in the UK, but now they're in France or Germany and in the US and other markets. So that's also a great way of helping you. You know, you might work with them in the UK and now you might want to go into France. So that publisher can help you get in there as well and certainly share learnings.
SPEAKER_03And probably also share those learnings, yeah, because it's so right what you say about localization. You know, people discount it because they think, oh, well, it's an English-speaking region, I can just toggle all the same brush. But let me tell you, South African English is very different to British English, and it's probably very different to Irish English and you know, all the rest of it. So different colloquialisms and meanings and things like that. Like that's really important. And I think even if you are a small brand, you should be looking at that. Like if you know, there's no excuse not to look at that kind of stuff because if you really want to be there for your customer, you need to understand them first.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and we did. We have worked with brands, well-known brands, who wanted to work in Europe, but their website was just in pounds. And it's offensive. Yeah. And it's like you gotta, you know, you gotta cater to the markets you want you want to target. So that's probably the biggest piece of advice. And then definitely leveraging your network to introduce you to those really key publishers within each of those markets to get your under the door and then to build up your relationships and your partnerships. And like you said before, diversify. So try work across multiple different types of publisher models is really key.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, from my perspective as well, it's also have a good plan. Don't go into affiliate marketing without a plan because you can just waste so much time and so much money without having a proper proper strategy in place. So let's talk about some myth busting stuff that you've learned over the years, because I love asking people that have been around the industry for a long time. What's one of the biggest myths that you've heard that you'd like to squash about affiliate marketing?
SPEAKER_04You could probably do a whole podcast on this topic, because there are so many myths. I'm so many. I guess there's probably two, really, right? Because they're probably both the same. So the one is you cannot just set your affiliate program and let it run itself.
SPEAKER_03Set and forget does not work, people.
SPEAKER_04Oh man. And that's it's almost like your affiliate marketing is like an afterthought, especially for smaller businesses who potentially don't have the resource to properly manage it. So that's where you look for affiliate insider. We see a lot of agencies are absolutely primed to help them do that. We obviously have you know our support and service as well within our network where we're helping those smaller markets, but you need to be able to invest in it and have a plan, help with those publisher relationships and really monitor it and have it as part of your overall marketing mix. So that's one of the myths, right? That some brands think, oh, I'll just set my affiliate program and all the publishers are going to come flocking. And no, I guess just one other myth is just about the affiliate marketing channel, you know, how it's not relevant, what's not taken seriously in a marketing mix, which I Think we have come uh so far, certainly in the UK and I don't know within Europe, that it's just such a valuable channel. You know, it has to be part of your overall marketing makes. We've proved it's incremental, it's so cost effective, it's performance-based.
SPEAKER_03And yet there's so many CMOs out there that don't actually understand the value of this channel. And yet, most brands, if you look across like the industry, and I'm sure you've got way more data on this. And in gaming, sometimes 60% of their revenue comes through this model, and yet it is resourced with people that are inexperienced, ill-prepared, and don't actually know how to work the strategy behind the program. And that is why I started Affiliated Cider, because I was tired of seeing people that couldn't be trained, you know, that didn't have access to resources or training or expertise, and programs are failing because they were mismanaged, not for any other reason. Yeah. Not because of the price points, not because of the cost of technology, not because of anything, but because they're absolutely mismanaged.
SPEAKER_04Absolutely, a hundred percent. And it's, I mean, this is why you and I and and so many other of our colleagues and peers in the industry are here because it's such a valuable channel. Like it's intended to meet consumer needs, just in a way that brands can't meet on their own, like that whole power of third-party endorsement almost. And it's certainly a key channel. And we are, to be honest, and I think you know, across everyone who's involved in the industry, we're all flying the affiliate flag, and we've seen certainly improvements definitely. And in a lot of the brands we're working with, they've invested and hired staff to focus on their affiliate activity, which is very rewarding and fantastic to see. So it just needs to keep going.
SPEAKER_03Absolutely. So I'm often asked what do brands decide, like how do brands decide which network to work with? Because every network has its own key specialism and value ad that they can bring from the technology side, the client side, the publisher side, whatever it is. But what are some of the big things that brands should consider in terms of tech relationship support and how can they avoid making mistakes when starting out to launch their affiliate program?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, so I mean, obviously they should decide to work with CJ. But uh no, seriously, it what will we always say, and I know our sales team do this as well, right? When they're speaking to brands who who get in touch, you you they need to understand what they want to get from their affiliate channel. No, for their affiliate network rather. They may not know as well, right? And that's where we would certainly inform them and educate them of the key areas. But you first all, you need to have a network that just does the basics really well. So you have to have your robust tracking, you need extensive publisher reach, stringent network quality and compliance, right, which we discussed earlier, and then also various service options that's gonna align with what their requirements are, you know. Um, if they have an in-house team, you know, they want to manage the program themselves, but maybe they need support from an agency like yourselves, or we manage it as well, and we and we work with a lot of agencies also. But more than I guess the basics, you want a provider that also gives you the opportunity to also add in more sophisticated solutions. So as your program develops and as your business grows and as your affiliate marketing program, you know, takes on that next level, you want to ensure that your provider is able to adapt and also bring to you new ideas, new innovative ways of how to work. You know, if you want to expand into markets, it may not be something that you're thinking about right now, but in the longer term, you might think, yeah, it will expand. So can that provider also enable you to leapfrog into those markets and also to deep dive data and analysis and also test, like we spoke about before, right? Become more sophisticated in your commissioning model. So I guess in essence, you also need to think of the longer picture. You want to have an affiliate network that you want to have a long-term partnership that's going to grow with you as you're starting off. And you know, the key thing is do the basics, but then be able to mature with you and guide you on how you can take your affiliate program to the next level and continue on from there. So yeah, I think they're the kind of key considerations that any brand should be, you know, thinking about when they're looking at any vendor.
SPEAKER_03Knowing what you know, what advice can you give to brands operating in markets that maybe are still emerging to work with, where partners and traffic sources aren't as uh as mature as what they are here in the UK?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, so for brands in emerging markets, really understanding what your customer is seeking in that market, what is working well, and also potentially what your competitors are doing, but also understanding what and how the publishers are going to promote you. There are some ways in which you can work with publishers like influencers and ambassador programs can certainly help get you in the door, right, in those particular markets. And you just need to be a lot more aware of how to work with those publishers and enabling them to ensure they're reaching the right customers in the right way, considering their payments differently than how you might be working with them traditionally. So you have traditional big publisher media agencies, you know, they are now very much coming into the affiliate marketing space and in those kind of less emerging markets is also a way to work with them in a more performance-based model as well.
SPEAKER_03I mean, the other thing is that if you are here in the UK and you're looking to get into another market, you can't assume that you're going to get the same types of affiliates in that market. So you do have to look a bit broader in terms of working with influencers or maybe even starting with ambassadors, like your actual own clients and educating them to become affiliates. And I know there's a lot of brands out there that are doing that quite successfully. And the models and metrics, as you said, they're not the same for those types of partners or publishers. And that's actually really the funny thing is that I think here in our affiliate industry, we need to come up with new terms for all of these people because they're not affiliates anymore. Like affiliate to me in the in old school view is somebody with a website. But actually, an affiliate could be an act developer, they could be a you know, widget creator, they could be somebody who's really good at social media, they could be a content creator, they're a streamer. So, how do we label these people? You know, we can't.
SPEAKER_04Right, I know. I I've had this conversation recently, and because as a what we're, I guess, CJ, we're an affiliate network, but we work with all of these publishers. So we still, I guess they're an affiliate, and even these these, you know, content creators and influencers, they they have to say it's an affiliate link. So it still all does come back to like affiliate. At the end of the day, it's performance marketing, and that's as well. Yeah, like you know, we partner with creator IQ, so building our network of these content creators and influencers is such a great way for definitely a small brand to be able to start testing their toes in the water and getting that brand awareness out there. I know you mentioned, yeah, some like Lululemon is such a great example. That's their core marketing strategy as well, you know, and different brands leveraging it at the ambassador as well.
SPEAKER_03So to wrap up on this very insightful podcast that you shared with us, all of your experience from all of these years working in the industry. What's your one nugget of advice that you can drop here? Your what I call the CJ value ball to give brands that are starting out and looking to scale their performance in affiliate marketing programs.
SPEAKER_04Firstly, come to CJ and we'll take good care of you. We spoke about the importance of you know tracking the service, your publisher reach, your network quality, and ensuring that you have the right data to make the right decisions. And if a provider is missing any of that, then a big chunk of what you need is actually going to be missing. But, you know, understanding the customer journey is really what we're all about at the moment. And we've released our affiliate customer journey tool for our clients and also our publishers, it's just so important. You need to optimize and grow your program further. And a key way to do that is to understand the customer journey. We've been helping our advertisers and publishers and how they can view and analyze that customer journey just to drive those best outcomes. So, you know, what we used to do is you'd look at affiliate separately. And it was, it was treated as a separate thing that lived on the side and it didn't factor into the total marketing mix, but that just has changed. Everyone has to evolve with it. So we've seen our brand successfully look at the effect that affiliate has in total, dare I say the incrementality, but affiliate is certainly now held to the same level and sophistication in understanding the journey at the customer level. And that's certainly, I feel like what CJ is bringing to their clients as well as all of our great service and our tools. And we're continually to innovate and invest in our platform, the products that we offer to all of our clients, right? Our advertisers and our publishers. So we hopefully whatever a brand, be it big or small, is looking for, we certainly CJ ticks all those boxes. So we welcome anyone who wants to have a discussion or a chat.
SPEAKER_03Thank you so much for being on this podcast today and sharing all of these insights from the stats that you've seen, the changes in the industry over the years that you've worked in it, and how brands can really master this channel, whether they're in a really strong market like here in the UK or even in emerging markets as well. So there's been some great values and nuggets of advice that you've shared with brands here. And I hope to see you soon at a live event as well.
SPEAKER_04Yes, I love that. Thank you so much, Liam, for having me on. It was a pleasure. Thank you.
SPEAKER_01Amplify your digital and affiliate marketing performance next year and join us for our affiliate insider summit. Taking place on the 17th to 18th of January, this free-to-register event will bring together a host of industry experts, brands, and publishers from all sectors to discuss the latest digital and affiliate marketing trends. Or you can elect to join one of our PayPal masterclasses and learn with industry experts how to master a variety of digital marketing skills. Amplify your performance at the Affiliate Insider Summit and register now at affiliateinsider.com and then click on Affiliate Insider Summit. And that's a wrap for this week's Affiliate Insider Affiliate Marketing Podcast. If you're loving what we're putting down in the series, head on over to Apple iTunes and give us a five-star rating and subscribe to our podcast channel so you never miss another insightful episode. Tune in next week for more digital marketing insights and traffic driving tips, tricks and strategies to keep your digital marketing fresh and your affiliate program driving consistent sales.