Hi, and welcome to the Affiliate Insider Podcast with me, Leanne Johnston. This is a podcast for digital and affiliate marketers. Listen up as I explore the latest digital and affiliate marketing trends and give you the insider scoop on what's occurring in affiliate marketing. Join us as we explore affiliate strategies, host expert interviews with leading affiliates and tech entrepreneurs, and discuss the latest affiliates and digital marketing trends. If you want to stay at the cutting edge of affiliate marketing, you're in the right place. Join me for this week's episode and let's get started.
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SPEAKER_02Welcome back to Affiliate Insider's Affiliate Marketing Podcast. And today I'm super excited because I've met David Pouat from Dognet, which is a very interesting affiliate network, that we're going to be talking about the CIS regions and how affiliate marketing is progressing in the smaller regions in Europe. And following on from the previous episode where we deep dive Russia and Ukraine and how affiliate marketing has progressed in these countries, I'm going to get you in the pod to talk a little bit more in depth about some of the smaller Eastern Europe markets and get the affiliate or publisher perspective this week as we dive a bit deeper into affiliate marketing around the world. So, David, welcome onto the podcast. It's a pleasure to have you here. Thanks very much for being here.
SPEAKER_04Thank you, Leanne. My pleasure as well.
SPEAKER_02So let's start off by asking you to introduce yourself to our audience and tell us a little bit about how you entered into the world of affiliate marketing.
SPEAKER_04All right. So thank you again for hosting us. It's a pleasure. Vanis comes to me and affiliate marketing. I've been in this business for four years now. It's been just four years since September. And uh yeah, I got into this business because our CEO is we've been in contact past before I joined Dognet. And uh he knew that I was working not in affiliate marketing but in the e-commerce in general. And I have had experience when it comes to expanding across the CE region because yeah, as we'll probably clarify that later, this is a very fragmented region but with with some big potential. And Dognet was just about to expand to Hungary, then to Romania, and so on. And he just asked me when we were sitting in a bar. But I would I would join the company, and so it was nothing formal. We just had a beer, and I was like, why not? Uh, I felt like I needed some change in my previous job, so yeah, then I joined Dognet, and then on the way I learned about affiliate marketing and all that stuff around it. Yeah, and since then I didn't expect honestly to stay that long for the company. I thought that I would like one, two, three years, maybe it's just to start things ups and running. But yeah, I'm still on board and and still having plans to expand the other markets as well.
SPEAKER_02That's the thing about affiliate marketing, it sucks you in and you think, oh, I'll just go take a quick look at it, but then it becomes a lifelong career prospect. So I always love to ask the story of how people come into affiliate marketing because I think it makes quite an interesting opener. So you were sitting in a book, you had a lot of e-commerce experience, and now all of a sudden you're running a really great and niche affiliate network. So tell us a bit about the story behind Dognet because it's quite niche. You're obviously operating in very interesting markets, but why the name? Like tell us about your humble beginnings and you know where you're focused on in terms of growth as a leading affiliate network in the CIS region for retail and e-commerce brands.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, well, then it comes to May, I might have to disappoint you because there is no like great story behind it. The CEO was working on an agency back then. I mean, the network has been co-founded by an agency, and then they sold their parts, and now we have like two owners. The second owner is not that much involved in the day-to-day agenda. And yeah, I think they had some side project that was like dognet that they had some logo prepared and domain registered, and yeah, there it started, so yeah, there is there's no like uh special story behind this. And yeah, and the whole story started in Slovakia, like it's gonna be seven or eight years almost now, and it was always like started as a side business of an agency that still be various uh e-commerce campaigns. And then Czech Republic was also an obvious choice because the Czech and Slovak markets are quite connected to each other. And yeah, in the end, after those first one and a half, two years, there was a first employee. Yeah, then it started growing, and suddenly from a side project, it became a normally working and sustainable business.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So let's talk a little bit about Lchenization for a minute, because that has been a big theme in the series as we discover how cultural differences rather impact affiliate relationships and program management. So you talk about all of these kind of markets that are either closely related or actually quite different. So what do brands and even you know affiliates who maybe want to talk with those regions? What are the key things that they need to know about that kind of like area in Europe that really they need to understand and get under the bonnet of before they try and launch a campaign or you know, even a brand in those spaces? What are some of the key things that you can share with us in in the podcast today?
SPEAKER_04Well, the first most obvious thing is the translations that you need to speak the language of your customers. I mean, in most regions, I mean, most of the people at least have some basic understanding of English. But when it comes to like, for example, in Czechia, it's a very competitive market, and if you don't have the web translated into Czech, nobody will have an interest to shop at your store because there is a plenty of other competition in uh Czechia. And for example, in Slovenia or Croatia, that's an interesting case because there are also even some stores shipping there and doing business even without having a localized version. Maybe because this market is so small that the people just are used to shopping also from foreign stores. But on the other hand, it's not only about the translation as such, it's also about understanding the local habits. For example, when you communicate online in Hungary, for example, you're not formal, you're not saying like miss or misses or Mr. whatever, you're just talking to people with their first name. This is like a little difference when someone visits your page than if you are using, for example, formal ways to communicate, then Hungarians will see that you are not a local store, maybe. Or for example, in Romania, you should have a help desk, like people answering phones because the many people are just browsing the net and then ordering through phone, like to like 10%.
SPEAKER_02Consumer behavior in terms of interacting with online, very different in each of these regions. And you know, brands that want to get in there, they need to make sure that they've actually got you know real live customer support, that the pure online model isn't actually going to be enough to convert that customer. What about brand trust? What about you know how people view English websites, for example? You mentioned that some people are already shopping in foreign stores, but you know, is it necessary? Is it possible to use a network such as yourselves to actually launch your brand before you convert your site into the localized language?
SPEAKER_04There are some exceptions. We can cooperate even with English sites, but it's the conversion rate will be far below the average if it's not localized. So we can just give it a try. If you have a really great product that is nowhere else, then we can give it a try. But if it's a product that can be found like 10 different stores in the same market, then it's probably not going to work. So yeah, it's always about the product or service that you are offering, and based on that, we can start brainstorming whether it makes sense or not.
SPEAKER_02What about like social media in these regions? Are people, you know, as taught on Facebook advertising and influencer marketing, or is it still sort of emerging in that space and it's more traditional publishers that are kind of pushing products and brands?
SPEAKER_04I think, well, that's an interesting thing that, for example, all this new wave of social or mobile or whatever is growing faster than anything else. So, for example, in Romania, also TikTok is very popular, or more people are shopping through mobile, I guess, in Romania than for example in Czech Republic, because otherwise that's like a mobile first nation or less. I mean, on the other hand, they have quite fast internet connection. That's interesting, but uh in the mainly in the cities and outside the cities, mobile is ruling. So these like new trends are also pretty much a thing, also in these regions. Yeah, only for example, one one like curiosity or main differences in the region, for example, in Czech Republic, where besides Google there is another strong search engine called Cesum, and they have like almost now in the past they had more, but now they have around 40% share on the market. So you have to keep that in mind that if you advertise only on adverts, you are not covering the whole Czech internet. But there is also a local competition. But all that other things when it comes to social media are pretty much the same in in all regions.
SPEAKER_02And you mentioned then the mobile first is still something that brands need to think about. Is that the same in all the regions or only in just a few, like Romania?
SPEAKER_04Well, I think that the easter you go, the important mobile is because for example, my generation starts it or here. So desktop was the thing, then then we learn mobile. And for example, in Romania or other countries, uh Romania is becoming the first experience with the internet, and then comes desktop. So that's probably how you should also approach this market that's without mobile, it's pretty hard to get through.
SPEAKER_02So we've talked about, you know, having customer service in localized languages on the telephone. We've talked about understanding the local market and the language differentials between all of them, you know, making sure that you've got mobile first at the forefront of your brand or or your shopfront. What about things like how PPC and SEO has kind of driven brands forward here in the UK, for example? Do you see those same trends emerging in the CIS regions in the smaller countries? You know, or is it very much moving quickly towards loyalty, voucher codes, cashback? Is that the same sort of emergence happening over there as what it did here in the UK?
SPEAKER_04It also depends on the market. For example, in Czechia, there are many cashbacks and also ultra sites.
SPEAKER_02What are the biggest ones that are there if mentioned that?
SPEAKER_04Typically Raffundo, Plnap, Benashenka, some of them are a bit harder to spell in English. Uh but yeah, these three are the main ones, and there are like many smaller ones. Yeah. And uh Slovakia is more less very similar. And in uh Hungary, the first cashbacks entered there like two years ago, two and a half years ago, and in Romania it's pretty much similar. So uh yeah, in Czechia and Poland, cashbacks are a thing, but in the other countries it's still more about the organic traffic and STO and content and so on, and things like Croatia or Slovenia, the whole affiliate marketing as a topic is in a very early stage. So we are now like pushing the market forward to convince both sides that it makes sense to invest time and effort into affiliate marketing. But for example, also in Croatia, there are some affiliate marketers, but they are doing affiliate marketing through Amazon in the West because there was like not no program locally in Croatia, so they're like, okay, it doesn't really make sense for us to launch anything if we have nothing to promote. But now that we have some campaigns already, now we are convincing them to do something also in their native language. It's a long run, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's a long, it's you're kind of getting in there early, you guys. Now I know you have a big focus on Poland and Croatia, which we've just spoken about as well. But what are some of the trends that you see in these markets in relation to affiliate marketing and the uptake of performance models that work best here? Because Poland is obviously quite a big target region, especially in the gaming space, but you know, there's a really big populace there. And also here in the UK, there's a massive Polish population here in the UK as well. So, what are some of the trends that brands can look at if they really want to kind of localize their campaigns to those regions? What are some of the things that they need to know about the Polish market?
SPEAKER_04Well, the Polish market is, I mean, it's not a trend, but it's a thing that it's it's a very, very competitive market. So uh if you are not kind of a blade-back attitude, but if you are used to, for example, in Germany, everybody is like willing to pay the price because that's the price. In Poland, everybody is looking for the not sure if the cheapest option, but something that's I mean, there are like stores making money only on shipping because they have almost no margins on the products. So if you enter Poland, don't be confused about the size of the market because that's one thing. On the other hand, you have to have really competitive offering because otherwise you will just spend a lot of money and do not generate revenue. So it's also lots of, for example, checks because while Czech stores are really like good at expanding in the region because the Czech market is like big enough, but not too big. For example, German companies started to expand in the region just recently because the German market is huge and they had like still a lot of things to improve locally in Germany. In in Czechia, once someone grows like not big but like medium-sized in Czechia, they are expanding also in other countries. And uh many of these stores that start getting spent failed in Poland because they were like copy-pasting their strategy from Czechia, and then they realized that it's a much tougher competition there. So you have to be really competitive when you enter Poland. And in Croatia, it's still kind of an early stage. The whole e-commerce market it's uh scrolling quickly, but it's still in its early stages. So, I mean, hard to tell about some trends. I mean, what I see as a trend, and also in our case, when it comes to the whole CE, is that for example, for us, it was a new thing that's when I also was at affiliate hotel that these technological publishers are entering this region. I mean, that's the proper term. I'm not sure what the proper term is like when you when you're not uh cooperating with a publisher that brings you traffic, but that's solution on your side that improves the traffic you have on your side or converts the audience.
SPEAKER_02There are really new um technology stack that I've seen integrating into the e-commerce space.
SPEAKER_04Well, not a lot, but this is a trend I see that I know that it's a thing in the UK and in the West already. And now these technological partners are discovering this region and offering their services to local stores. So uh we are happy to have some new partners on board as well, and it's something that is gonna uh grow surely in the upcoming years. Yeah, and for example, uh Google Shopping, it's been around for a while now, but it's also like booming because it was a new thing like two years ago here because it wasn't available. And for example, in countries like uh Croatia, it's still not available. So once Google Shopping will be a thing in in Croatia, it's another way of expanding also for publishers that want to enter this region. Yeah, for example, when we were at affiliate all we had a few conversations with uh publishers that are working with as a CSS partner, and now they are looking into region of C where they would like to enter. So I think that's also a great opportunity.
SPEAKER_02So there's a lot of collaboration happening in this market, even though it's a bit fragmented still, there's there's a lot of opportunity and a lot of you know innovation that's taking place quite quickly, purely because the market is growing and performance-based marketing is becoming, you know, one of the top channels to invest in for brands, especially with all the problems that we've had with Facebook. And, you know, not to date this episode, but Facebook did go down for six hours, you know, it can make a massive impact on the number of sales and obviously campaigns that are live. So let's talk a little bit about like publisher traffic. So we we touched a little bit earlier on about cashback of it starting to come in, but uh, what about like social media SMS push and email marketing? Does that kind of exist in those regions as another uh source of traffic or is that still also emerging just like performance marketing is as a whole?
SPEAKER_04Well, cashbacks are surely a thing when it comes to like traffic like SMS and push. It's um I I don't recall anything like massive in this in this segment. I mean, sure there is an option, and there are some publishers, for example, some cashbacks or vouchers I do that as part of their activity. But like uh I don't really know about a publisher who's doing just like push notification. I mean, there are some probably, but not not nothing significant um that I recall. And yeah, social media is a thing that we have many publishers work with like massive social media groups or pages or similar sources.
SPEAKER_02Like our brands are really moving to make those influences into ambassadors for their programs and with them to curate content as well. So that piece has kind of come to the fore quite quickly than in an emerging market and like here in the UK, it's really now starting to come to the fore, whereas we've had more PPC, SEO, and cashback and email marketing for for a much longer period. But it's quite interesting to see how different markets are leapfrogging over all of those like journeys and going straight to stuff that's topical and of interest. So, why should brands who enter this region consider working with a specialist network? Obviously, there's a lot of complexities and a lot of fragmentation in these smaller regions, but what is it that like a network like yourselves can actually help brands do to fast track and build success on their campaigns when they want to enter these regions?
SPEAKER_04Well, probably one of the biggest advantages that we know the region and we know the people who can help you to grow faster, and we also have native support in each language. So it's also a thing when you would like to manage your campaign yourselves, and if you want to have it successful, then you need to find people who speak the language and know the region. So in our case, when you cooperate with us, you you don't have to because we already have those people on board. And on the other thing, it considering that we are talking about many small regions, hiring a full-time person just for Romania or for Slovakia doesn't even make sense if you are just starting. So once your campaign grows and it's generating a lot of revenue, then it might be an option. But in the very early stages, it I think it doesn't really make sense. So that's where uh network can help with their native team.
SPEAKER_02What about local education as well? Because we we spoke a little bit earlier prior to the call about uh the fact that you guys are really investing in educating affiliates locally as well. So, what about events and things like that? Are they like local events that brands can attend in these regions to meet new publishers?
SPEAKER_04What's kind of happening on the events in the well, uh there are not a lot of events, so that's why we are creating our own events.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04So we we have uh we just have an event called Hot Dognet that we are organized for our publishers. We uh have had several meetups here in Slovakia and Czechia as well, and then uh in Hungary we had our third meetup just two weeks ago, and also in Croatia, that was the first event, and we were happily surprised. For example, in Croatia, where we have only a few publishers on board, it was very well attended and it was like a nice discussion there. I mean, there are publishers that have experience with other kinds of like they are running Google AdSense on their page or so, not specifically with the affiliate, but now they are looking into that direction that they see that we are there and motivating them to cooperate. So, yeah, and obviously there are a lot of like e-commerce-related events in the region, but when it comes to affiliate marketing, not a lot is going on. But it's still, for example, in Hungary there is already some kind of little community forming that wasn't there when we entered the market. So we had had to build that community up ourselves.
SPEAKER_02And I think that's important because I'm still old school when I do affiliate deals. I want to look people in the eye, shake their hand, and get to know them and stuff. And I think our entire industry has been built on relationship management that happens, you know, at these live events. So for the last couple of years, it's been incredibly difficult to kind of run and grow programs without having these meetings. So it's great that we can get back to them. But also in emerging markets like this, where it's difficult to find out who affiliates are because there is no big event that's happening that you can go and network at. So, you know, getting to understand how to actually really get into at a grassroots level to meet these guys and to help them and to show them how they can make profit, using some of the tools and technologies and stuff that we're bringing in from other better formed markets, should I say, is quite important. So there's anybody listening to the podcast here, get in touch with David if you want to help him out and get involved in some of these localized events. And I'd be really keen to especially check out Coratia. So uh hit me up the next time you're having a meeting and hopefully I can get out there and meet you guys there too. It sounds like a really exciting market you're promoting, but it does have a lot of things to consider. Like it's not something that a brand's gonna go rush and get into or even an affiliate is gonna rush to get into unless they have that localized knowledge of the culture and and customs that that need to sit behind the brand marketing. But it's good to hear that there are a lot of local level partnerships happening and that you know your network is really spearheading that in this community to help affiliates to grow and take affiliate marketing worldwide. So, one last question before you leave us what is the big trend that you see in affiliate marketing as we head into 2022, where we'll be talking about you know the amplification of performance marketing at our affiliate summit. So talk to me about where you think the trends are are headed for performance marketing as you see it.
SPEAKER_04I mean, I can only talk about trends that we see in here in the in the region. Absolutely. And usually what's happening in the West that's sooner or later is happening also here. I see not an early trend, but it's going on for a while now that everybody's asking about influencers and how our influencers are work working with affiliates. Usually our reply is that it's not something that you cannot work really work with influencers on a purely CPS basis, but you can nicely combine the two. So, for example, some of the influencers are not quite experienced in e-commerce, for example, affiliate marketing is a nice way to try it out. So that's for example one trend. Google Shopping has been here for a while now, but it's also a trend like we see more and more CSS partners coming up. And the the whole uh expansion story, for example, we see that trend. And that once our publishers tried and is successful in the local market, they are quite eager to expand those things into other markets in the region. So uh the small local market and the region will be more and more uh interconnected, which is great because it's great to see uh people are willing to try and work in other markets as well and and expand their know-how and and knowledge into other markets as well. Probably I guess that's it. And uh yeah, for example, then one of the newest trends is this final pay later solutions that are just a new thing in Czechia, and for example, just there is a new CMR company that has been established, so that's that's another thing that's gonna be coming up in the next few years.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so really partnering with like payment providers and tech companies that can help in your customer journey is gonna become quite important in this region, as well as realizing that you're building relationships with smaller partners who, when they do become successful, will transition you into other regions as well. So, really taking a longer term view. You're not just looking for affiliates in each region, you're looking for affiliates that are actually skilled, who can then take you into multiple regions because they're happening with the localization and the knowledge and the network to do so. So that's really interesting. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast and talking about this region, which nobody ever really pulls the curtain back on because it's so complex and fragmented. So I really appreciate all the value bombs that you've dropped in here today for us. Looking forward to seeing you at some of the CIS region events and getting to know that market and understand that market a little bit better and seeing what comes out of that area. So thanks very much for sharing all of your knowledge with us today, David. It's been great to have you on the Comfast. Thank you, Leon. It's been a pleasure.
SPEAKER_03Amplify your digital and affiliate marketing performance next year and join us for our affiliate insider summit. Taking place on the 17th to 18th of January, this free-to-register event will bring together a host of industry experts, brands, and publishers from all sectors to discuss the latest digital and affiliate marketing trends. Or you can elect to join one of our pay for masterclasses and learn with industry experts how to master a variety of digital marketing skills. Amplify your performance at the Affiliate Insider Summit and register now at affiliateinsider.com and then click on Affiliate Insider Summit. And that's a wrap for this week's Affiliate Insider Affiliate Marketing Podcast. If you're loving what we're putting down in this series, head on over to Apple iTunes and give us a five-star rating and subscribe to our podcast channel so you never miss another insightful episode. Tune in next week for more digital marketing insights and traffic driving tips, tricks, and strategies to keep your digital marketing fresh and your affiliate program driving consistent sales.