Hi, and welcome to the Affiliate Insider Podcast with me, Leanne Johnston. This is a podcast for digital and affiliate marketers. Listen up as I explore the latest digital and affiliate marketing trends and give you the insider scoop on what's occurring in affiliate marketing. Join us as we explore affiliate strategies, host expert interviews with leading affiliates and tech entrepreneurs, and discuss the latest affiliates and digital marketing trends. If you want to stay at the cutting edge of affiliate marketing, you're in the right place. Join me for this week's episode and let's get started.
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SPEAKER_03Welcome to this week's episode of the Affiliate Insider Affiliate Marketing Podcast, where we're exploring affiliate marketing around the world. Today we're focused on how affiliate marketing is evolving across the globe and some of the key things that affiliate managers should be taking note of when expanding their partner programs globally. And joining me today to take this discussion forward is our head of agency, Miss Liana Clyde. Hi, how are you? I'm good, thanks. Welcome back to the pod. It's always so great to have you on the chat here with me to talk through the nuts and bolts of growing international affiliate programs because it's something that you and I have been doing for quite a few years now. And we've got a lot of real life experiences that we want to share as we kind of gather together all of the thoughts that have happened in this season's episode of the podcast. So looking forward to getting started on that. But for some of you who don't really know Liana as well as what I do yet, I'm going to hand you over to her to do a super quick summary of who she is and what she's accomplished in affiliate marketing over the past few years.
SPEAKER_02Thanks, Lian, and thanks for having me back on the podcast. What can I say about myself? I started my affiliate journey in iGaming and in finance. And over the past few years, I've actually expanded and worked across a ton of different verticals. So, you know, there's eye gaming, finance, retail, and even really niche little areas like lotto, et cetera. So it's been quite interesting and I've learned a lot doing that, especially since, you know, this podcast is about global affiliate marketing. I'm hoping that I can share some little tidbits that I've learned, you know, working across all of those verticals and across the globe in different markets.
SPEAKER_03Okay, so let's get down to business because I know that you're extremely experienced in running global affiliate programs. But this season we were looking specifically at affiliate marketing around the globe. And I wanted to bring you on to talk about some of the things that we've learned together launching and scaling affiliate programs that target customers around the world. And one of the key things that I wanted to talk about this episode is what you've discovered or learned from the season's experts that we've had on the show.
SPEAKER_02I think one of the most interesting things that has been talked about is infrastructure and tracking. There's a lot of tracking platforms out there. You have a lot of choice, and setting up your infrastructure is very important. It does seem that you should start with your end goal and work your way backwards to ensure that your platform is set up properly so that you have the correct groups in place so that you have the ability to actually look at numbers in terms of the different geos that you're working in. Also, I have seen some really interesting pieces on localization. So, you know, actually translating all of your infrastructure to suit the affiliates that you're working with. I think that's very important.
SPEAKER_03That's true, because often what happens is, you know, we launch an affiliate program in a network, for example, and the network is only in one language, and then we're taking the program global and just common things like terminologies, you know, whether it's basket value, order value, sale, first-time sale, you know, even those types of cultural and language issues that appear in the tracking solution can have a big impact on how you move your program forward in local regions. So that's something definitely that we've seen in our time managing global programs where we haven't been able to convert the technology infrastructure into the localized language. And it's not just about, you know, offering creative in the local language for the partner or the publisher to pick up and promote, but also helping them to understand the administration function of your program in their localized language.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And then it can be done through the communications that you're sending through the platform. So if you can have that translated, especially with really niche markets like Vietnam, for example, it's very, very helpful. Obviously, if there's an easy way for customers to make payments, then you're going to have an easy way for affiliates to promote your products. Regulation is very important, especially when you're looking at certain verticals. And then there are the tools that you can use, like the fraud and compliance tools that you might use to monitor your program. So these are all really interesting pieces that you've talked about and discussed in the last season of the affiliate marketing podcast.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And I just want to go back to payments because I think we always talk about the customers and how they need to be able to deposit and pay for products easily on your site. But also think about payments in terms of how you are remunerating and paying out your affiliates because one of the key things that I've learned, you know, managing affiliate programs over the last two decades is the faster you pay your partners, the faster they can promote you and increase their promotions for you. So making sure that localized payment options for affiliate commissions and payout is relevant and available in your technology stack is also just as important as the localization of the language, too. And I think one of the other things that we've seen over our time is that digital doesn't always mean one size fits all approach. And what do I mean by that? It's really taking a look at the offerings that you're giving to your partners and having a look at how you can customize them for different local regions. You know, what are some of the things that you've seen and what's your take on that, on the programs that you've been managing over the last 12 months?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean, I do feel as though there are a lot of cultural differences between different regions, which if you can tap into those differences, that can really help you to make push sales. One area that is close to my heart because I am born and raised here is Canada. There are some huge differences between the English-speaking part of Canada and the French-speaking part of Canada. Obviously, when you're in French-speaking Canada, you want to be spoken to in French. It's very easy to slap up an English page and just assume that they're going to be able to understand everything the same as a Canadian who speaks English as their first language, but that's not always the case. So it's important to really tap into that piece of the market. I know that you talked as well with Samantha this year about Latin America and how that is a very unique region. So the localization there can go right down to different dialects in the same country.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, especially when she was talking about Brazil, where north and south are completely different, because that's something that I actually didn't even know. You know, from a marketing perspective, just changing your graphics on your content to Spanish isn't going to be enough. So that was quite interesting. We will kind of pull out the highlights of that episode later on in this season. But some of the other things that were mentioned as well was David from Dognet in the CE region. He was talking about the fact that customers actually need to engage with brands on a very personal level in some of the regions that brands want to go really deep into. So even things like your customer support and your live chat or even telephone communications are still important. And I think we found that in a couple of the regions that we were working in in the finance industry, where clients really wouldn't sort of trust, you know, depositing money or sending money somewhere unless they actually had a human to speak to. So whilst we're all looking at ways to implement marketing automation, I think it's very important that we think about what the local culture and the local customs require as well. And maybe talking to affiliates about that is a good place to start.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, definitely. And as affiliate managers, there are things that we can do in our role that will actually be very helpful in this regard. Like, you know, in Japan, perhaps there's a little bit more of a need to be professional in your emails or your communications. You definitely want to use that to build the trust. So it's a very interesting topic, which I think we could go on and on about if we've looked into each and every region that we work in, because they all have their little pieces that you can use to actually really create those relationships with your affiliates, make sure that you're using the right marketing materials, localizing all of your content on your site. So there's so much to be looked at here.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And I think it's also a strategic play, you know, before a business enters a new market, they really do need to be thinking about how their partners and their affiliates are going to help to kind of speed that entry to markets where they maybe don't have the insight around, you know, what the local customs and cultures are. I remember when I was talking to Constantine on our From Russia with Love episode, where he was saying that, you know, in Russian, if you walk up to somebody with a smile, they're going to kind of look at you wary. Whereas in other places in the world, approaching somebody with a smile is an open invitation to start a conversation. So just local customs like that can be completely, you know, misaligned with strategies that need to be built into your affiliate program, not just on the customer side, but on the referral partner side too. So I think it's important that affiliate managers that are looking to kind of expand their program into global regions, that you really spend a little bit of time or money even with experts in local regions who can help you understand those finer nuances of building your program out in a respectful manner as well, because we definitely have moved away from that one size fits all approach to affiliate marketing. And whilst it becomes more difficult to manage thousands of affiliates in a platform or in a program or a network, you really do need to be looking at those little niche areas because that's kind of where we used to see a lot of the growth. If you remember back to our days at NetLean Scroll, you know, often if we were chasing growth modules, you know, we'd have to go and do that research in all the different regions to have a look and see where are the opportunities. And that could mean spending a little bit of marketing budget to actually go do some research pieces.
SPEAKER_02It's interesting the profit that you can find in the places that you didn't realize exists and going into different markets and different countries. That's a great way to test new traffic and see where you can actually make those sales and push that success.
SPEAKER_03And sometimes you have to even take a step back. Because if you remember when we were building agent programs on the ground where we were, you know, linking up affiliate programs to bricks and mortar businesses in in countries like Africa and Latin America, you know, before you even launch your affiliate program, you need to go and get local ambassadors on the ground, you know, and that could be somebody in a local shop or whatever the case may be, where community values are still so big and really drive brand trust forward. So, you know, we're all talking about ambassador marketing right now, but your ambassadors are anybody that supports your brand. So looking not just at the online traffic component of publishers in regions where you're trying to expand your brand, but looking at offline publishers too, or agents or referrers, because that's kind of where we saw a lot of success. You know, I mean, neither of us spoke Japanese, neither of us spoke Spanish, but yet we built one of the biggest affiliate programs in these regions. So it's really about looking at the niche sectors and figuring out how you can take your marketing strategy forward so that it benefits your business.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, definitely. I agree.
SPEAKER_03The other thing that we spoke about on this season as well, which I wanted to sort of touch on a little bit, is that we know that affiliate marketing is quite advanced in Europe. And we're quite lucky to have learned our craft here in this space. But if you're looking to get into another country and open your program up to get publishers, what are some of the easiest ways to do this? What are some of the things that you've experienced?
SPEAKER_02Well, I mean, one of the things that you always say is to go hang out where your affiliates exist or where they hang out. So some of those places might be, you know, communities online, social media groups, Facebook groups, maybe you're on Telegram and you're in groups there. Those could be great places to find partners. You should also look at your SEO and PPC keyword drivers specific to those regions. I think that's very important. One of the things that obviously is forgotten about often is YouTube, because actually YouTube is one of the biggest search engines in the world. You go on there and you can find all sorts of influencers, partners, other people looking to do business or help with your business. And you can find them by simply searching for different keywords and terms that you would be looking to use for traffic. So you can find those people right on YouTube, which is quite interesting.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And the other thing is like even the app marketplace, you know, people forget about the fact that certain regions are very much geared towards mobile traffic. You know, that's kind of where people are hanging out. Their phone is actually their computer. So not looking at traditional desktop traffic, but actually looking at how you can get into local apps that are very useful for your community. And it's really about understanding your customer avatar and thinking about where is that customer hanging out online. And it's actually hilarious because I had a conversation with a client earlier this week and they were hell-bent on having their entire affiliate marketing strategy focused around particular customer avatar. But what they forgot is that that same customer is hanging out in multiple places online, not just in the place where they would look to find them. And I kind of bring that back to your voucher code and loyalty and cashback sites because as humans, we all want to bargain, right? Everybody is looking at those sites all the time or doing comparisons for insurance or cheaper finance or whatever the case may be. It's about thinking laterally about your customer and thinking about, you know, where and how are they engaging online and how can you target them in multiple different places. And I think that was one of the key things that came out of this season when I was talking to some of the experts that we've had on the podcast, in that it really does take a localized strategy to think about where customers engage. I mean, from my perspective in South Africa, for example, nobody uses Facebook. We're all on WhatsApp. You know, Facebook is something that your brand uses, it's not something that the young hip kids are doing. There's, you know, WhatsApp communities and content streams that are relevant about chat groups. And it's basically referral marketing. It's where, you know, your friend refers you into the WhatsApp chat and you all get the bonuses and the offers that are happening there. So it really does take a little bit of time to understand what works in each place and figuring out what works for your business too.
SPEAKER_02I think one thing that you should never forget about as well is networks, because I think there's a little bit of fear in certain verticals about working with networks because you don't have the direct relationship with each and every individual publisher. However, networks can be a really great way to build a strong partnership. And the right network and the right partnership can really give your program a great boost.
SPEAKER_03We've experienced that as well in the last three months as we've started launching programs on bigger networks like CJ and Impact, the data that these networks have that really, as the customer of their network, you can kind of ask your account manager what works in certain regions. We've had programs that we've launched that we thought would perform a certain way and then have realized actually that's the norm, or they've underperformed, and the network has been able to help us to understand exactly why through different categorizations, through, you know, different targeting perspectives. So really, you know, not being shy to ask your network to help you to understand what's relevant in those regions when you're expanding out and asking for benchmarks as well, because the data that can glean from having a really in-depth conversation with your account manager is something that you can use in your marketing strategy and it's free. And you don't have to actually pay an external agency to come in and give you that markets analysis when your network would have information on that across multiple different programs that are similar to yours in your vertical. So I think really leveraging your strategy and understanding, you know, do you want to take your program into multiple markets direct and what is the cost and resource of that look like versus perhaps leveraging a network relationship in, you know, one or two different territories outside of your internal program. And I think that's, you know, sometimes people look at and they go, oh, it's gonna be too much hassle to manage a program across multiple networks or across multiple platforms. But actually sometimes that's what you have to do. You have to look at what's gonna be better to really help your entry point into a new market and help you leverage partners that might already be there, willing and ready and able to promote you.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's right. I think there's different ways to launch yourself into a new market and looking at all of the different options and deciding which is best for those markets is important, having the strategy or the plan in place.
SPEAKER_03And also it boils down to price. You know, I mean, different networks charge different things, they offer different USPs, and really just understanding how does that benchmark back to some of the other direct marketing that you're doing in those regions. You know, in the gaming industry, we see a lot of brands launch into new markets using local ambassadors from, you know, anything in the music industry to this thought spending industry and anything in between. So it's really about understanding again the locality of that region that you're getting into and what people really identify with on a grassroots level, and then trying to leverage that back into your marketing messaging.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I agree. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03The other thing that affiliate managers really need to consider in terms of global expansion when working with their affiliate programs is the plethora of marketing and ad tech partners that now exist and could be working to help expand their brand reach locally. And I'm talking about things like tools that help you with shoppable content and e-commerce businesses, for example, like we've seen some great results with Honey and various cashback and loyalty sites with clients that have been adamant that they don't want to work with those partners. But then again, that boils down to the strategy and then also looking at big mainstream media advertisers that are coming into play with pay on performance relationships and changing the way that they actually want to charge for revenue in their huge media website and digital assets. What have you seen, especially because I know that you work a lot with like YouTube and streaming sites in iGamExpress? What have you seen happen in terms of how things are changing with tech partners?
SPEAKER_02I do agree that there's a lot more partners out there who are willing to go on a performance-based model now rather than a pay up front kind of a model. And I think the reason for that is honestly, the last year has pushed us a little bit further ahead for when it comes to performance-based marketing. You want partners who can actually show you the customers coming in and show you the revenue before you actually pay out because people have had to tighten up their budgets. They've had to really focus on their strategy, they've had to decide on clear goals and revenue targets. And so a lot of the partners that then work with these programs, especially those, as you said, which are tech-based partners, they are also doing the same thing. They're kind of adjusting how they work in order to reply to the environment around them. So I think there's been a big change. I do think it's important when working with those partners to make sure that you have a recruitment plan that matches your strategy. So you shouldn't necessarily go after everyone. That approach doesn't always work. But if you try or test a few partners like that and then optimize and narrow your approach, that tends to be the best option.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And I think you hit the nail straight on the head there, you know, that we don't want a spray and pray approach anymore. Some of the most successful affiliate programs that we've managed have had under 100 affiliates that are active, and yet they are still growing month on month with the same amount of partners. So it's really about kind of going deep instead of broad and understanding what traffic sources are going to be best for you, not only for your global expansion, but also in terms of your margins and ROI. And a lot of the tech that I've seen from a couple of the events that we've been to in the e-commerce industry in the last three months really opened my eyes to the innovative stuff that marketing tech companies are doing in order to help brands really engage with their customer throughout the buyer awareness journey. You know, there were some really cool conversations that I was having with tech companies where they wanted to actually help affiliates to increase their upsells, which normally you would find in an operator site. And actually, there were some really cool pieces of tech that were focusing on the publishers because they're starting to realize that affiliates are building huge databases and huge data sources, depending on the types of traffic that they are obviously curating and sending on to brands. But that really surprised me because normally everything has always been focused on the operator side or the merchant side, where marketing tech is concerned. But I'm starting to see a lot more widgets and tech tools that can really help publishers to augment their user journeys and deliver better ROI and value for operators, which just gives me even more faith in the fact that, you know, we should be investing more budget in affiliate and partnership marketing because of the benefits that it has for your business, not only to localize your program, but also to improve your cost margins and your profit. And I loved what you said about the fact that, you know, a recruitment plan needs to match your marketing strategy because it really isn't, in our experience, and I'm sure you'll agree with me, that it's all about volume. It's not about volume, it's about quality.
SPEAKER_02Right. I've seen some great affiliate programs running with what many programs would consider a small number of affiliates, but they're running strong, and those partners are actually bringing them the traffic that they're looking for. They're very well matched and they're working there as a partner. So it's a continuous, ongoing partnership which builds upon itself. And so you don't necessarily need hundreds and hundreds of partners in your program. You just need the right partners in your program.
SPEAKER_03And determining what those right partners are, there's so many great tools out there now that can help you investigate traffic sources. I guess the message that I want to leave here on this particular point is test, test, and test again. Sometimes we'll have clients that will say, hey, we don't want to work with this partner because we worked with them before. But when was the last time that you worked with them? Was it more than six months ago? Because guaranteed that partner's traffic sources have changed. They've had to find new ways to find new customers. And you could be missing out on opportunities to work with those partners in a more rewarding relationship simply because you've discounted them from a previous deal that maybe didn't work on even another brand that you used to work on. Before, especially in the eye gearing industry where it's the same faces, different places. We often have preconceived ideas of how certain partners perform, but actually what we need to be doing is testing and testing again because traffic is finite at the end of the day. And, you know, a lot of stuff changes. Google has algorithm changes, sites get penalized. You know, so really having an open mind on how you want to embrace your partners and work with them in a long-term collaborative relationship is important too. Yeah, absolutely. So after all the years that you've been running affiliate programs with me and also with AFME, what are the key things drive brands to succeed in affiliate marketing overall? I mean, where's it all headed? Where do you think it's all headed from your perspective?
SPEAKER_02Well, I mean, some of the key things that drive success are treating your partners like they're a part of your marketing team. So don't treat them like they're an external source that's, you know, just going to send you traffic and you're you're kind of going to be done when the campaign's over. But treat them as a partner and make sure that you're talking to them often, you're asking them their opinion because they do know their traffic very well. And when it comes to things like localization, they can certainly help to make sure that your strategy there is very solid. So you must treat them as though they are a part of your team. I think that's very important. I also think transparency is quite a key thing with an affiliate program. It builds trust. Whether the news is good, the news is bad, or the news is neutral, you should share it because then that just builds a stronger relationship between you and your partners. So having a clear strategy, like we talked about, even if that means you have a very clear strategy, but you're going to tweak it in six months to adjust to the things that are going on in the world, that's very important. And as you touched on in the last question, being forever open to testing and improving those campaigns. I think all of those are very key to a successful affiliate marketing program.
SPEAKER_03My thing is also to sort of tell affiliate managers to look ahead. Look at your competition, look outside of your own business, consider things like what's happening with the metaverse, what's happening with blockchain, what's happening with cryptocurrencies, can we do microtransactions? Can we create ambassador programs that can augment the affiliate programs that we're having? Because there is a slight difference between influencers and affiliates and ambassadors. And all three of them work in very different ways. And understanding that one size fits all approach of here's my affiliate program and this is what I'm going to pay people doesn't necessarily work, but you're actually discounting traffic sources in local regions that can help you to kind of build brand reach and build that brand momentum. Also understanding who your customer is before you start building your affiliate strategy in terms of who you want to recruit. Because, you know, are you looking for Gen Zs? Are you looking for millennials? Are you looking for the baby boomer generation? And if so, what types of websites or apps or communities are people hanging out on? Because often I get, I want to get more Instagram traffic or I want to be on Twitter. And I'm thinking, well, your audience isn't hanging out on those channels. So do you actually build your affiliate strategy based around KPIs and numbers, or do you build it around the fact that you're using your partners to refer a certain type of customer to you that you're not reaching direct?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean, ultimately your affiliates are helping you to create that customer journey. They're a piece of it. So you you definitely want to be thinking about the customer and exactly where they are sitting as well. So I agree with that absolutely.
SPEAKER_03One of the other stats that stuck out to me over this season as well, I think I was talking about voice search, or maybe in one of the upcoming podcasts that we're going to be doing, where, you know, three, four years ago when we were running our boot camp summits, we were talking about voice search and the emergence of. And I remember sitting in a talk with a guy that was highly experienced on voice search, and he was saying, you know, it's coming, it's here. And then I saw the stats, which I can't remember where I read it, but it was something like 48% of search is now conducted over voice. So how are we changing our content on our sites? How are we helping affiliates to understand to amend their copy so that it's not keyword-based, but actually based on phraseology? Because we search in a different way with our voice to how we do when we type on a keyboard. And obviously that impacts localization as well, because even certain terms of phrases can't be immediately translated from one language to another. I know this because I speak two languages myself. And sometimes you just don't have the words to translate, you know, the real meaning and feeling behind a phrase that might bring you really good traffic. So I think, you know, looking ahead and looking outside of your own industry is also a very important thing to look at when you are trying to kind of move your brand from one locality to another.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, what an interesting idea with the voice phrases. I hadn't thought of that, but that is quite an interesting way to look at things because yes, you would have to adjust your content in order to actually catch, as you said, some of those phrases that are commonly used rather than doing it as you would type a keyword. It's quite a different approach to it.
SPEAKER_03And with a number of people that have, you know, Siri and all these other, you know, echo dots and everything in their houses. I mean, it it really is changing the way that we engage online. So I really think, you know, people are talking about the metaverse now, and we're all kind of going, yeah, you know, what is that? How does it look? But I think maybe it's something that affiliate managers need to start thinking about. You know, what are they going to build around their brand, around their partnership and community that they're building in their affiliate programs to support all of these new wonderful ways that we can engage with customers online. To close off this season, I think the fact is that we've realized over this last season that affiliate marketing doesn't really need to be complex if you're going to go global. There's certain key things that you need to do in order to get it right. And we've shared a lot of experience with a lot of the experts that we've pulled together from across the globe to talk about affiliate marketing and how to actually structure your strategy. So we hope that this has given you a great experience in terms of just looking outside of your own zone, of your own locality to see how affiliate programs operate, you know, through networks, through brands, through marketing tech experts that we've brought in on the season this year. And if you've loved this series and you want to learn more about affiliate marketing, we want to invite you now to come and join us at our digital and affiliate marketing summit in January, which is taking place on the 17th and 18th of January 2022. We're very proud to say that we're bringing one of the first virtual events to market to Kickstart 2022. And we've brought together some of the brightest digital minds in performance marketing and created some amazing content. So take a look at our website, sign up for the Affiliate Insider Summit. It's going to be amazing. You're going to have a plethora of experts to meet and greet and talk to about amplifying your performance and go book your seat. And it's it's been an absolute pleasure to have you here with me today, Liana. Thank you so much for sharing some of the insights that you've learned managing, you know, multi-million dollar global programs around the world. It's been a pleasure to have you on.
SPEAKER_02Thank you so much for having me back. I hope to be invited again maybe next season. I hope to see all of you in January at the summit.
SPEAKER_01And that's a wrap for this week's Affiliate Insider Affiliate Marketing Podcast. If you're loving what we're putting down in this series, head on over to Apple iTunes and give us a five-star rating and subscribe to our podcast channel so you never miss another insightful episode. Tune in next week for more digital marketing insights and traffic driving tips, tricks and strategies to keep your digital marketing fresh and your affiliate program driving consistent sales.