Soul ties - Dave and Amanda Lebda

In this episode, we discuss sexual addiction and hear about the Lebda's experience confessing affairs, healing, and more infidelity being confessed. We are so thankful for these two, as we have been walking with them for the past month through some of our own struggles, which we will discuss on the next episode. For now, enjoy the Lebda's!

Transcript

spk_1:   0:02
Thank you for listening to distinct podcast. Recorded live from Fresno, California. This is the distinct podcast today. We welcome Dave and Amanda Lebda. David Amanda had been blessed with 17 years of marriage. A true testimony of love, endurance, surrender, forgiveness and reconciliation. Dave, he works in commercial construction, and Amanda is a licensed marriage and family therapist. They have a story you are all really going to enjoy. So Nick and Andrea, let's hear more from the lab does.

spk_2:   0:46
All right. Welcome to the distinct podcast, guys. We're recording

spk_1:   0:50
now. Way literally went there about five

spk_2:   0:54
minutes of talking.

spk_1:   0:55
I realized

spk_2:   0:55
that record by minutes, five seconds. Okay. It was maybe 30 seconds, but

spk_3:   1:00
it felt like, Yeah,

spk_2:   1:03
embarrassing. Uh, welcome again, Dave. Amanda, we are very appreciative that you guys are here, and we're looking forward to encouraging some people in their marriages and in their lives and pointing them to God. Real quick to our listeners is number one. Thank you for listening. And ah, we appreciate your donations which were receiving. We appreciate you guys following us on instagram and Facebook. And and, Ah, if you can share this podcast with a friend, we would much appreciate it. So, David, Amanda, we are just eager to learn about you guys. If you wantto maybe let the listeners know a little bit about who you are and maybe give us a slice of your testimony and

spk_3:   1:47
he's looking at

spk_0:   1:48
we're looking at each

spk_1:   1:48
other. Yeah. Who's going to start? I told you I would

spk_0:   1:50
let you start, cause otherwise I'll dominate

spk_3:   1:52
an entire time. You can say

spk_0:   1:55
Okay, well, testimony. Well, a little bit about me and then a little bit about you. Okay, So, um, like you said, Dave Lebda Ah, am 43 years young. And, uh, I know I need to start saying that it's first time I've done that. I'm gonna do that from now on. My life

spk_3:   2:11
when I had to say it was 40.

spk_0:   2:13
Did you? Yeah, it's okay. Gets better after that.

spk_3:   2:15
Okay.

spk_0:   2:16
Yeah. You can use Young when you're 43.

spk_1:   2:18
If we let you do that. Oh, no.

spk_0:   2:20
So ah, yeah. Born and raised kind of here in the Fresno area early on, I always had this kind of personality that really kind of attracted people as far as like, in a community of friends and so That was kind of my out. For even though, Like, I couldn't relate to them in school from, like, a school perspective, grades and things like that I could out on the playground I could on the weekends and sleepovers and stuff like that. So I used my personality early on in my life to get friends and then even having one very specific friend that I grew up with that I only saw in hindsight that it was God putting him in my life because he would encourage me all the time, just like you can do it. You know, he would always push me to, um, do my best. And he was kind of essentially the older brother to me. Um, and it was really him that once I got kind of through high school that really introduced to Mito to ah, youth group. And really, when I was kind of nerdy, stood toe Christ, um, our family kind of went to church growing up, but it was kind of the thing that we would do

spk_3:   3:25
Well, even am I remembering it?

spk_0:   3:28
Yeah. Yeah, it was It

spk_1:   3:29
was a

spk_0:   3:29
big deal because I didn't know it at the time. It was a reflection in hindsight and quite frankly, this this thing that we do in re engage, um, with the, um the life maps. Will we go over with Couples Kind of their story, The 1st 1 that we did during that time with everybody I hadn't. I thought of it ahead of time. I remembered his name was Chris. In fact, his name's Chris Cooper when our son's name is Cooper on. And so there there is a connection there. And so I realized at that time, like that was God and I just broke down right there in our living room because in that moment I realized, when you think about like, the poem footprints, where the idea is this description of, of where were you in my life? I only see essentially one set of footprints, and Jesus says it's my footprints that, you see, cause that was carrying you It was that that kind of the realization of my life, where were you? God throughout my life, when I'm struggling and feeling alone and realizing that when I was with Chris, I didn't feel that way at all, and it was like that was me in your life. That was me. Being, you know, we're talking about the church's is God. God knows that he doesn't have a physical manifestation in our life. So what does he do? He uses the church so we can audibly hear his voice through community. We can feel more hugging our brothers and our sisters in Christ, right? And so for me in my life, that was, in hindsight, realizing that he was he was Jesus essentially for me. And so just that being kind of the the the, um, the combating the negativity and the fear and the struggle was got doing that early on to me, realizing that in hindsight and so so yeah, him being in my life was a huge part of it. And I don't I'm only recently kind of talking about that more because I'm realizing it more recently. So people that have known me for a long time never even realized that because I'm just now like God's kind of putting these pieces together. So it's a beautiful thing hindsight in the impact that it can have currently, right? So anyway, so obviously Chris was a big part of my life. growing up just struggling. Um, that would say sometime in my early teen years, um, I was exposed to pornography, and so, already struggling in my life finding this, you know, my dad had a stack of playboys in the closet that I found probably in seventh grade, um, and then found the stack of videos next to the stack of playboys and, ah, um, just there was I mean, still, it's still even difficult to explain the feeling that happens when you see that stuff. And but it it was also a deep feeling where all of this worry waas because for people who do struggle with that, it goes into your psyche. It goes into the imagination, because when you see that stuff, it imprints, I mean literally in a man who could speak to this with her background. It it speaks to the imprint that it makes on your brain.

spk_3:   6:35
Yeah, we can just talk about this for a second. Um, so part of I mean, we'll, we'll get there. But I worked for about eight months in ah, sexual Addiction Ministry basically and did a lot of reading in that time. I was studying for getting licensed a couple years ago. And so just I understanding what pornography does and that basically over a long period of time of using it, you know, I mean part of pornography being like a drug, you start to see the whole world of sexualized, and and so the filter that you begin to see the world through is a sexualized filter and me understanding that and then coming to David explaining that I think that is part of what even helped us him going toe. Oh, gosh, You get it like you get me. You know, as I'm explaining kind of the like he said the psyche or the psychological side of pornography And what it does him going, Yeah, yeah, you understand? And so I think that that even kind of helped us.

spk_0:   7:44
Well, I think that one of the talking about the effects that viewing porn has on an individual it's literally a chemical reaction that happens in your brain. They've done studies where they have hooked people's noggin and had them view porn in seeing things that are firing in their brain. In the endorphins in the in Katherine's that air released while someone is being subjected to that about while they're literally watching porn and they the equal to a person that is using drugs and what they're finding about it is, is the chemical release that is happening is it's an astronomical amount Maur than the most addictive drug. So study second more than here. So, yeah, they're saying heroin is the most addictive drugs for what it does in your head is it literally develops in such a way where you cannot live without it. They say they're saying that that pornography addiction is astronomically greater in terms of the effect that it has on an individual's brain over drug addiction. It is only in the last five or 10 years that the medical community, essentially in the council and communities actually you've never

spk_1:   8:59
used to here

spk_3:   9:00
doesn't want you to know that.

spk_0:   9:01
No, but you've never heard sexual addiction. That's only that's somewhat of a recent term.

spk_3:   9:05
And, yeah, sexual addiction isn't even in the d S m yet,

spk_1:   9:08
right? So yeah, what given all

spk_3:   9:10
the celebrities that have been caught in are probably sex addicts, right? Sexual addiction is not

spk_1:   9:16
because the

spk_3:   9:17
diagnosis

spk_0:   9:18
That's right. They haven't seen these studies that are coming out where all the sudden they're saying. And now you see that from, like, call that a scientific perspective. No, no, no. Okay. Where's God In all this? Well, God, obviously that that is something we don't have control of, right? As far as what that does to our brain. So why does it do that to our brain? Well, there's a god reason why does that tour brain God created sex God created in a man to be turned on to light up like a Christmas tree in his brain when he sees the person that God has for him. In one of the biggest things that I learned from from a counselor that I had that helped me through the understanding of what this sexual addiction isn't. Why do I do what I d'oh is to understand that the desire that you have is not bad? Every man is created for desire for women, women were turned on by women. It is a personal decision that we have to make to harness that and point it towards our spouse. That is what we're supposed to dio were turned on. Some guy's more than others, but for the majority guys are turned on by the pope. The billboard of the gal in the bikini that that is an instantaneous reaction almost before you can even choose to react to it. God created that. Did he want us to be arbitrary and how we point to that desire out? No, He intended to be towards one person. That's what we have to make that personal decision to say. I love my wife. My wife is beautiful, man. She put that bikini on a day and girl, you know, I

spk_1:   10:53
mean, it's like That's

spk_0:   10:54
God's intention, yes, go nuts, but go nuts for one. And so a lot of people have that difficult time to transition from none. Toe one and especially if we've been viewing this pornographic image were like you were saying where it's hard to just be one, because it's like I've looked at thousands and that's created that desire in my brain, and I have to teach myself that. No, it's for

spk_3:   11:17
one. Yeah, the the other part of that. The other part of the sex thing right is again going to the counselor side of things. But when so there's grooves that are created neurological group is right when especially orgasm. And so if you're doing that, um, you know, Sorry, I talk with my hands. If you're doing that to somebody on image or something other than your spouse, you're creating those grooves in your brain. And so this idea that if you are harnessing that, like Dave said towards your spouse, then, um, you're creating that connection with your spouse,

spk_0:   12:07
which is the intention you're you're you're up, like in the group that I was in to recover from this we called it sold ties the jury literally. You can make a soul tie to an image on a screen. You can make a soul tie to another. Even if you've made a marriage covenant to one, you can make a soul tie. So so we get you know, part of my my past is involved not just pornography, but involved affairs. It's some physical, some emotional. My brain doesn't know the difference. My brain is making a connection to that person that even if I stop the physical act, there is a lot of time, even sometimes years before you can literally disconnect from that individual because we are created to make a soul connection, a soul tie. And so, walking through freedom in this, it was important for me to pray through that Lord break the tie Then that was connected between me and this person.

spk_2:   13:06
Yeah, we talked a lot about that, and actually that term came up with the sole tie Still working together. But I you told him you were done. But there was still that desires. That's demotion was most definitely there, right? In my mind, I never heard that term. But once I heard it, I knew it. Only because I had been an affair previously. And I knew I hadn't talked this girl. And I don't know at that point, it was month. Um, but there was still that Ty e mean it. It would allow you to go back and talk to this person and pick up right where you left off, right? Do whatever you did, you know, in the desire was there. So I I was talking to someone recently and I had thrown out sold time, not knowing the exact definition, but kind of understanding a little bit about it and telling him the only way I think to break it short of obviously God, please break It would be confessed confession to your spouse or a confrontation of that person like a break up. This is it. We're done and then healing from that. But it would be like snapping an arm. And I think for me when Drake when I confessed my affair, it took I mean, it had already been We had almost got the ring gate at this point. Would have been a year out a year and 1/2 at least since I'd even talked to this person. Um, but she still felt this other girl felt that she could still call or text and would do it every six months. And and, uh And then when I finally told Dre it was an immediate, she grabbed my phone. I mean, in mid sentence on and Texter and ah, snap that arm. Yes, she confronted like immediately, and I felt free as soon as she did that. Yeah, like thinking I don't have to worry about her calling anymore because I've been sweating about it, you know? So

spk_0:   14:56
I think that's a difficult for for couples that have gone through. It is people understand, like this has happened, it's confessed, and now we're working on maybe reconciliation or trust again. But I think what's really difficult that I've heard couples say that they didn't anticipate or expect that was really hard is the grieving of the loss of that relationship for whoever was in that affair.

spk_1:   15:21
There's a literal your

spk_3:   15:23
calories until the most recent one, where he he went through a grief process each time but never shared that with me until, most recently where he's he said, You know, there's there is a grief process of getting rid of that

spk_0:   15:38
because even though in the reason why that's the hard part two shares hard enough

spk_1:   15:43
right to share that this happened.

spk_0:   15:45
Yeah, And then it went for me. Example. It's like, OK, this happened. I got it out. Thank you, Lord,

spk_1:   15:51
that I was able to have the ability

spk_0:   15:53
to confess this and in this last one before when further before, turned into a full blown affair, Right? But what's hard is now I'm left with my head being trapped, thinking about this person all the time, wanting to be with this person, you know, again hear me with the imagination, picturing myself with that person driving through neighborhoods, imagining living in that house. And I'm living in that house with her imagining on vacation with her, and it's like, How do I bring my wife into that? She's already damn it. She's already had to hear this. And now she How do I bring her into the fact that this is I still want? They're still part of me even know cognitively. Outwardly, I am choosing to be with my wife and I want to be with my wife. It's not that I don't, but there's this this trailer that I'm hitched to, that I'm dragging, that I can't shake. And and it's important for people, understand. That is riel. Oh, yeah, that is really that happens and and it's it's it's hard to know howto why bring my spouse into the fact that this is happening, though I choose her, And how do we together snap the axle of this trailer and get it out of the way in it? Like so many other things when affairs happened, it it happens over time. That's just something that you have to choose. You have to go to the lower daily and say Lord, this is in my heart. I know this is not from you, but I know this is a result of the decisions. I've made the consequences of the decisions I made. The Bible says that the wages of sin is death, and I feel death. But also it's conflicting. I feel death, but I feel a desire for this person. Lord on Lee, you can make sense of this overtime. You know, you have to be intentional about that, and that's the only way that that could end in a short period of time as possible with the fact that it exists is important for beautiful. No, because it goes beyond just the construction.

spk_3:   17:36
Yeah, I don't think it's not very often as far as the person who had the affair. They don't want to share the difficulty with their spouse, that of getting rid of that relationship and grieving that relationship.

spk_0:   17:48
Yeah, for me, that was something I was grateful for. And you talk about God's intervention at a time when you know you're not making good decisions. That was truth for me, for the job that I had, because I literally I knew enough because of Prior affairs that that had it had been, Let's see. So this happened in 2016. This emotional for the last of her I'd had was, 08 So it's been eight years of hardly of definitely nothing in terms of affairs and and because I had walked out of this sexual addiction and this is kind of an understanding to people they're listening as it relates to you Run. You don't dabble with what you struggle with, because you'll be right back at it quicker than you know. And in my story is the case. I've spent eight years of in hard accountability, sexual addiction, freedom, you know, Ministries and and, um, I found myself slowly kind of peeking at things that kind of and then not doing the things that I know I needed to do to keep myself in a good place. And then all of a sudden, there's this person, right? And so for me, I knew enough to know this does not end well. I've been here before, so I need to go deep to run. I need to get out of this. And then so confessed it to Amanda, um, and then literally sent a text to, like, five guys. Like I need prayer to get out of this place. And I had about 22 months prior, been working on this other job opportunity, but it was kind of falling flat and literally the next day, I didn't even go to work. If you remember this, Um ah. I woke up. I knew that she was there. She always walked her dog by where my office was. She She was fully embracing this whole idea. We had already confessed to each other that there was feelings and it was on. And, um, I two things that I literally remember that was a god interruption to letting this go any further. One was prior to this day sending her a text message saying, I'm in this house waiting for you because there was because so before I was in commercial construction of the residential construction, she was a homeowner. So that's kind of how this started. Um, we would we would meet in front of this house that I was building an eye texture one morning. I don't even know if you know this light texture one morning and

spk_3:   20:00
said, I'm I'm like so I'm starting to get something.

spk_1:   20:03
Yeah, so? So this is this is

spk_0:   20:06
God. So I sent a text, and, um, got no response. Um, and when I looked at my text message, it wasn't even there. It literally wasn't in my phone. Um, in in knowing in just thinking, like had that text message went out what would have been the result of that, and and I still to this day can't explain. I mean, literally, there was nothing. It didn't, you know, you go. You look in your text, right? And you see where the text is that you sit and you wait for the dot, dot dot, Like that person's texting back. Right? And I'm waiting to see that I go to see if there's a dot, dot, dot in the text that I sent isn't even there. And I knew I sent it. So this was at the tail end of this time and then literally the Friday following that. A week or two later was when I realized I can't even go to work tomorrow morning. Um, I got up in the morning, we were upstairs in our room, and I'm like, I don't know what to d'oh! You know, and phone ring. And it was this company saying, I need you to come in today, not Hayward. We want you to come work with us. It was Hey, I double booked a meeting, and I Can you come and I'll pay you just for today to be in this meeting so called in sick for work or whatever went to to this other company work for that day. It was a Friday, called my boss and said, I'm done. I'm not coming back at all. I have five days of vacation. I'm gonna burn that for my firm, for it was like the week of Thanksgiving and I never went back and that and so and then started with his other company and text All of the guys back that I a text who had been praying for me, saying God has answered my prayers. I don't even have to go back to that place. So again, just God's intervention, right? To stop that from happening that was amazing about that is for me is I was not in a spiritually

spk_1:   21:51
good place that I think a

spk_0:   21:54
lot of people struggle with its like I would even venture to say that I have mawr examples of God answering my prayers at times when I do not deserve what I'm asking for. There is way more of that in my life than there is of the I'm doing great and God's like you are

spk_1:   22:10
years old. This stuff, yeah, you know, asking you shall be given to

spk_3:   22:13
the idea that the only thing we have to dio when faced with the enemy is, say, the name of Jesus literally,

spk_0:   22:22
and he's at work. I mean, if my son was a teenager and called me drunk at a party and said, Dad, I need to write home I'm not going to say, Well, you should have thought about that before you start drinking. I would already be in the car on my way there. You don't have saying I mean how and then how so much more with our fathers say, I've already got a way out for you. I've already got a way out. As soon as you say the word, I've already got it set up because my prayer was was after he. There's no way that in that short period of time stuff just happened stuff. It's already happening and I might the only reason why it happened after I This is interesting. The only reason why it happened after I said that prayers. Because then the glory goes to God, right? So if he sets this up in waits knowing that I'm gonna call out to him and as soon as I call out to them almost like a snap of his finger, he instigates everything that's already been set up. Then I know you get the glory. This is not something that just by happenstance happened. It's when I cried out to you that you that this happened. So then God says, That's exactly how this works is you need you need to initiate says Knock right and I'll open the door. So that suggests that I have to knock your standing there waiting. But it says Knock, seek, you know, and you will find those kind of things. It suggests that make that move make the first move, and I'll immediately. There's already things in in process and emotion because that's how he gets the glory.

spk_2:   23:35
Yeah. Oh my God, I was getting Children. That's how I got my job when I'm currently working. Um, did not deserve I was in the middle of my affair, and it was just like I hit a point where, like, I'm done literally. I'm done. Ah, And I know I I threw up her prayer like, please, I don't even know what I need right now. I just I remember floating in the hot tub like looking at the scar at the stars, just like, please pull me up there right now. I'm done and ah, yeah, a rip pills and that job out of my life. And he's like, Hey, here's a better job now. And I I couldn't have deserved it any

spk_1:   24:19
less. It was

spk_2:   24:20
not something. I deserved it all. So

spk_0:   24:23
yeah, and I So the current for me, the job that he put me into, I couldn't even write a better description of what I would prefer to D'oh. So in the midst of making ridiculous mistakes, knowing that I can't work any longer this job that I had rescue me from it not to have me go, you know, drive a city boss or deliver pizzas, which at that time, you need to be willing to do what you need to do, right? It wasn't even that it was okay, I'm gonna pull you out. I'm gonna put you in a company that is flourishing that is going to take care of you that it's full of believers that you can tell your story to. I mean, it was just like, Yeah, I'm gonna take you out of the streets, in the slums, on gonna rescue from that. And then I'm gonna put you in my house in a room in my house, in the king's house dress, And you think about that. You think about the prodigal. It's like kill a fatted calf. Here's my robe. Here is a ring, you know, saying that's why people like us that have gone through that in life. We read that and we can't get through that passage without just bawling

spk_1:   25:24
a bucket in years because it's like that's what he's in

spk_0:   25:27
the business of doing is yeah, I'm gonna rescue from that. And then we're gonna have a party. We're gonna celebrate that. I have My son is

spk_3:   25:33
back, you know? How was your guys? Is relationship during the I guess the second time of

spk_0:   25:40
the affair. Obviously, all this stuff happening, right? Affairs, everything just to clarify. So I had pornography affairs in 2008. I had unfair. And I said, Okay, I need to make a decision. I either need to just cut bait and just completely absorb and adopt this life and not burn. Drag Amanda through it, or I need to try and figure out how God can set me free from this. And so that's what that was A pivotal moment that was. That was when I was introduced to a group called Avenue where guys were like, We're gonna It's a three, a five year commitment. There's a lot of it. When he was intense,

spk_2:   26:14
I I noted in your testimony that you said that that line stuck with me. You needed to fully embrace your sin or find help.

spk_0:   26:21
That's right. It was.

spk_3:   26:22
Brad talked about that right

spk_1:   26:24
now. Said

spk_3:   26:24
that recently where you can't have both hands and both cookie jars

spk_1:   26:30
because you're gonna be frustrated all

spk_0:   26:31
the time. You're either on this side. I'm not going to get what you really want. Sand, flash, whatever. And on this side, you're not really gonna be the thing that you want to be as it relates to, um a Christ follower. Right? And so that's where I waas. So that was in 08 And then for eight years it was we were running. We were walking away from that life as it relates to working on what makes us right for me. It was understanding who got really is I had on emotionally absent father. So my view of God was an absent God. It was the king, not the person that loves you. So when that was being re taught to me, I was understanding what my true value is in Christ on walking away from that. So back to your question, then here we are 2016. It's happening again. So prior Thio that time.

spk_3:   27:20
Yeah, we we had gone into healing ministry, Um, individually. So then I did the wives site of Okay. You know, he's confessed. Okay, this is it, right? Yeah.

spk_1:   27:33
She literally went

spk_0:   27:34
through a book called Unintended Journey. So it's the idea that hears these wives that are like, Okay, great. I'm married to a sex addict. What does this mean? And they went through this

spk_3:   27:43
and so it was good in the sense that it taught me. You know, that there's a grief process when you find out about an affair and something that I had never understood and that it's not my fault, you know, and And what is sexual addiction? And so so again in 2008 we both made that decision to go individually into individual peeling ministries and really did well at that. I think me understanding co dependency and and, you know, habits and things that have that had happened in me and boundaries and all of that, Um, you know, important stuff and so feeling like, Well, this is the end of affairs for us, right? He's made this decision decision. We've made this decision to move forward together, Um, and and so me then wanting to help other wives, him getting into leadership and wanting to help men get set free from that. But then I think we just went in tow like coast mode after that.

spk_0:   28:49
Yeah, yeah, it's Our testimony is interesting in that, and I talk about this when we share a testimony you, When you typically hear people's testimony, it's like I socked then God, Now I'm good. Essentially, that's rarely that that they

spk_1:   29:03
Hey, let's bring the Lebanese backup. They had another massive fall on. And so let's let's stay tuned. You know what? Here's part two

spk_0:   29:10
there. I mean, quite frankly. Typically, when that happens, those people get out of leadership and you never hear about it again. Which is unfortunate, because that communicates a message to the church that you can do bad once and God will reconcile you and forgive you. And then we'll put you on stage and you can keep her testimony. But you better. You better make sure that it doesn't happen again. Because now you're gonna make the church look bad.

spk_2:   29:32
I am. So I was so fearful

spk_1:   29:35
watching you guys this

spk_2:   29:36
testimony for that particular reason, I was like, No, we're doing a podcast now. And we're in ministry trying to help people. And I'm just like you say, coasting, like with our podcast. I mean and work. And four kids, like we are feeling speed wobbles like insane. So we're actually have, like, two more guests. Uh, I think serious Tony is in the he stirs, and then we're, like, break time, like, major major break time, because I feel I. I think we're feeling distance, but we only see it.

spk_3:   30:10
We didn't. That's the difference, though. Is we didn't acknowledge the distance?

spk_1:   30:15
Yeah, I'm glad you said

spk_0:   30:16
acknowledge, because it's

spk_1:   30:18
not that we didn't feel

spk_0:   30:19
it. It's that we didn't acknowledge a big difference. We knew there was wobbling going on. But now, Kate, this season we were people's charge. I'm involved in men's Ministry. There she's involved in Women's Ministry. They did a huge teaching where they had a professional, um, like movie crew come up from Southern California and video are our testimony and, like professionally, put it into this huge Siri's that we did at the church. So

spk_3:   30:43
we're literally out there Peoples Church, like we're in

spk_0:   30:47
the spotlight, literally. I'm leading worship in the main service, is there? I mean, you know, I'm

spk_1:   30:51
saying, Ma, Ma, I mean,

spk_0:   30:54
it's just like so it's like when their speed wobble. That's great. But ah, um, this is a Ferrari. So you just if its speed wobbling, you just put the gas down more. That was our That's essentially what we did. We didn't

spk_3:   31:07
pay attention. Even now, when you ask that question as I'm thinking about it, I probably had too much faith in the fact that he would never do that again. Rain you? He were We've been through healing ministry, right that he he knows that I'll be done if you were gonna have another affair, and so he would never do that again. And so then to find out, you know, I always say, I felt like the rug was pulled out from under me because I had I don't think at that point my trust and faith was in that the Lord would protect us, but that it was in Dave, that Dave would never make that decision again.

spk_0:   31:46
Yeah, because I had done the work right? And so prior affairs. There was no work. It was just fumbling, and we both knew that. But now we had turned a corner. There was all this time and work for eight years that would suggest that there's no reason why it should happen again. And that's why I was going to say is our testimony is, is one of that. It doesn't matter what work you do. We're all anything. Brad mentioned this in a message even last Sunday of we're all one decision away from being right back to where we have been or toe where maybe we've never been. And our testimony is one as we is, we encourage couples is is regardless of time. You're always one decision away of putting yourself in a compromising situation, where, where you are making bad decisions again, and so it isn't about Is it relevant that we do the work? Of course it is. But it's subject to what we know God has done for us. It's it's not the cart before the horse, so we do because he's doing for us, which is why we're able to do we know we're better at knowing when that we need to stay on top of us because we we've seen even when we've done good for for eight years and you can still one of my my closest friends in somewhat of a mentor in that season, had tens like 20 years of freedom in this and went back to it after like 20 years of freedom, similar to a test me you guys have had where there was affairs and and prostitution, stuff like that. This guy back to that after like 20 years of that all of a sudden in one decision that was back. So that was kind of the thing for us is this is a day to day thing for us. This is not a hey. The longer we get away from it, the less we have to worry about. It s so we have to e I mean, even as we talk about this, it's behaves a reminder to me right now that we have to act as though this happened yesterday.

spk_3:   33:40
Part of what I learned early on in my individual healing was this idea that I need, I need toe. I needed to learn how to trust the Holy Spirit that I would have. The Holy Spirit would tell me something was off with Dave or or between us, but he would. He would never confess to that or would dismiss it. And so I stopped kind of. I'm trusting that that got feeling that holy spirit reaction. And so now that's still there. And and and now I've gotten back to where I can trust that and and kind of discern that. So for him to validate that if he hadn't come to me and said Hey, if he had just said, Hey, we need to have more sex, you know, I would have been like, Okay, something's often me, right? But the fact that he validated that feeling and then we had the conversation, I was open to it because that all lined up in made sense.

spk_0:   34:35
You have to be careful how you explore this, this thinking, but you're looking for validation in an affair. You're looking for validation in a place that you don't feel it feel validated, that you probably haven't feel validated. It's a kind of a self loathing kind of perspective where I'm a less in this area, remember, you know, my past just not feeling good. So when I gain the attention of somebody there making me feel like I'm the top of my class,

spk_3:   35:00
so you're getting the emotional validation or the sexual validation for the two things are well and even getting from correct

spk_0:   35:06
and even in so motion. So what are those two things you just mentioned? Emotional validation, which is what females typically want. So they're getting that in the affair, and the physical validation is what the guy's getting. So it's on.

spk_3:   35:17
Amanda did you ever feel at some point that his affairs were better than they actually were? Did you think like, oh, he totally enjoyed that was better than ours? Yeah, I think in one of the other episodes that I was listening to, Nick, you had talked about that kind of that that you and yes, So I would absolutely build these affairs or even pornography, anything that he struggled with. I would build it up to be this great thing in in my mind. Um and so it's It was hard. I mean, it was he had a connection with these women, right when we talk about the grief process. So there was a connection there, but I think again, what's happened in the last few years believing that he wanted that connection with me and that what we have is better. But yes, I think that is definitely a lie that I believe when we were doing re engage in and we talked about this, but not the specifics of me having Thio. You know, when we got to the point where we both have to confess, right forgiveness and and confession and this idea that he had sort of, you know, again, put me on this pedestal of I don't struggle. I had to confess to him that I actually especially recently, um, you know, with Hit with his with the most recent affair. I was looking at other men in the church thinking, Oh, man, if I had married that guy, he would have treated me better than Dave. And so that's a lie and that's, Ah, temptation, right? And that's I need to take those thoughts captive the idea that the grass is greener on the other side. So even though I didn't wasn't pursuing those men, I was having thoughts of. Hey, this guy would have treated me better. What would my marriage have looked like had I married that guy? And so that was a confession that I had, you know, to ask for forgiveness from, and that's not any difference than an affair. That's that's the beginning of it, right? That's how it starts. It's Hey, what would this person provide that my spouse is not providing

spk_2:   37:28
pretty much an affair without the pain because you didn't act it out, but had you acted it out, it would have been empty and just full of pain. They had been there. Just Guillen. Shame, Actually,

spk_3:   37:40
I think, um, Drew described it in in their episode, he he talked about how disgusting he felt in house. How just how each time he thought it was gonna be fulfilling and wasn't it just left him empty and sick. And I just I I think that is the part of their story that I teared up because I feel like he really shared what that feeling is like when you go through with that act

spk_2:   38:09
totaling completely Yeah, there's nothing. There's nothing satisfying at all. It's like you were completely duped in that moment. And then you finally gave in your like ass sucker got

spk_0:   38:23
well, it's exhausting to live two lives. Even in your mind. I mean, let alone the physical reality it was. How do I do this and then come home with a smile and glad to be home? It's exhausting. And in it promotes just delusion. Which is which then what is up in what is down in life at all if you have to. If someone an affair has to convince themselves that I am this over here in the night to turn that off and I'm this when I walk in the door, you know, literally. I mean, whether some people physically have to do it or what kind of proverbial obl e literally come inside and shower that person smell off of my body and then go back to life. And in some ways, physically you have to do that in a lot. But I'm speaking more to the emotional inside thing. I have to somehow pretend like that's not happening in that there, the just the visual of just how damaging that is and how that just you just it's just breaking down everything inside of you because you were not designed to live that way. And that's why there's just so much collateral damage that happens in an affair because you're creating this friction of two lives and that's not sustainable. That's why they always come out eventually, whether it's in months or years, you can't sustain that. You're you'll go literally insane. All of you know, parties included in this is we all can relate to that toe one degree or another because we come to our end. We're like, this sucks. This sucks. I am at the lowest of lows, and I'm tired of this and I'm exhausted. People that come out of affairs are eggs, sauced it. They're completely completely exhausted and have nothing. And that's while oftentimes there's the opportunity for just amazing experience of Christ in that time, because he's picking you up at your worst and then the cross becomes really right in the cross. Is not that I would ever endorse

spk_1:   40:08
people tohave an affair to experience God in a way they never have before.

spk_0:   40:12
But I'm saying if people have there listening to this, there is an opportunity for you to experience Christ on what happened on the cross in a way you never have before. It became real to me. So it's like if you're in sin, coming out of sin is not shameful. It's an introduction to the cross, its introduction to the physical you can feel like that was for me. So now I'm ruined. Whenever I hear the gospel

spk_1:   40:31
for God so loved,

spk_0:   40:32
the world is like I can't even finish that because I'll start bawling on this episode. But I'm just I'm just I'm undone by the gospel because I am a reflection of that when I was unworthy. But God, you know, when I was dirty and horrible but God and that is true from my life. And so that's the other side of what can happen in that because it's so exhausting to try and live a double

spk_2:   40:56
life him. I think that's a good place to end it. Um, we appreciate you guys coming over and just pouring your heart out and giving us time and letting us glean from

spk_1:   41:10
everything that you've said. We want to think the listeners again for listening. And if you can please share this episode with your friends, follow like on Instagram. Yeah, thank you guys. For additional information about distinct ministries, go two distinct ministries dot org's. You can also follow the distinct podcast on Facebook and Instagram and email your questions and comments toe Andrea at distinct ministries dot org's.

spk_0:   41:48
When you typically hear people's testimony, it's like I socked then God, Now I'm good. Essentially, that's rarely that that they

spk_1:   41:56
Hey, let's bring the Lebanese backup. They had another massive fall on. So let's let's stay tuned. You know what? Here's part two

spk_0:   42:03
there. I mean, quite frankly. Typically, when that happens, those people get out of leadership and you never hear about it again. Which is unfortunate because that communicates a message to the church that you can do bad once and God will reconcile you and forgive you. And then we'll put you on stage and you can keep her testimony. But you better. You better make sure that it doesn't happen again.