{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":0.45,"endTime":3.3,"body":"Welcome to the show"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":0.45,"endTime":3.3,"body":"today we have on Dr. Donald"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3.3,"endTime":6.99,"body":"Hoffman. He's a cognitive"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3.3,"endTime":6.99,"body":"psychologist and science author"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":7.2,"endTime":10.2,"body":"and Hoffman studies"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":7.2,"endTime":10.2,"body":"consciousness visual perception"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":10.2,"endTime":13.92,"body":"and evolutionary psychology,"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":10.2,"endTime":13.92,"body":"using mathematical models and"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":13.92,"endTime":18.15,"body":"psychos physical experience"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":13.92,"endTime":18.15,"body":"experiments. He has a book out"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":18.15,"endTime":20.73,"body":"now called the case against"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":18.15,"endTime":20.73,"body":"reality. And we're going to"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":20.73,"endTime":24.48,"body":"discuss this and his theories,"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":20.73,"endTime":24.48,"body":"but also some of the research"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":24.48,"endTime":28.44,"body":"that he's working on now. And"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":24.48,"endTime":28.44,"body":"this is very intellectual, deep"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":28.44,"endTime":31.32,"body":"stuff. And so if you find some"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":28.44,"endTime":31.32,"body":"of it's above your head, you're"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":31.32,"endTime":34.56,"body":"not alone. I often felt that"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":31.32,"endTime":34.56,"body":"during this conversation, but"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":34.56,"endTime":38.76,"body":"try to focus on the big picture"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":34.56,"endTime":38.76,"body":"and understanding the concepts."},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":38.91,"endTime":42.09,"body":"Dr. Hoffman is clearly a very"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":38.91,"endTime":42.09,"body":"brilliant guy and he's done some"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":42.12,"endTime":45.93,"body":"doing some really exciting work"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":42.12,"endTime":45.93,"body":"so stick around, check it out."},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":45.93,"endTime":46.44,"body":"Here we go."},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":60.299,"endTime":64.139,"body":"Boy, so reality perceptions of"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":60.299,"endTime":64.139,"body":"reality. So I think the first"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":64.139,"endTime":66.539,"body":"thing that we can talk about"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":64.139,"endTime":66.539,"body":"that's kind of basic for I"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":66.539,"endTime":69.779,"body":"think, for most people"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":66.539,"endTime":69.779,"body":"understand is the mistakes that"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":69.779,"endTime":72.419,"body":"we're seeing with our"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":69.779,"endTime":72.419,"body":"perceptions of reality. And like"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":72.419,"endTime":75.959,"body":"one example you give in the book"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":72.419,"endTime":75.959,"body":"is The these jewel beetles. So"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":75.959,"endTime":77.699,"body":"explain that to my audience"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":75.959,"endTime":77.699,"body":"like?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":79.23,"endTime":80.94,"body":"That's"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":79.23,"endTime":80.94,"body":"right. So we typically think"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":80.94,"endTime":83.94,"body":"that evolution would shape us to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":80.94,"endTime":83.94,"body":"see the truth, or at least the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":83.94,"endTime":86.97,"body":"truth that we need to see"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":83.94,"endTime":86.97,"body":"because that would make us more"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":86.97,"endTime":90.6,"body":"fit. That seems intuitive. But"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":86.97,"endTime":90.6,"body":"we have examples in nature where"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":90.6,"endTime":93.21,"body":"we see quite the opposite of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":90.6,"endTime":93.21,"body":"that, like with the jewel"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":93.21,"endTime":98.34,"body":"beetle, the the beetles are"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":93.21,"endTime":98.34,"body":"dimpled, glossy and brown. The"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":98.34,"endTime":103.17,"body":"females are flightless, the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":98.34,"endTime":103.17,"body":"male's fly and they search"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":103.17,"endTime":106.23,"body":"around for females. And when"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":103.17,"endTime":106.23,"body":"they find a eligible female,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":106.56,"endTime":110.85,"body":"they'll alight and mate. But"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":106.56,"endTime":110.85,"body":"anyway, I think well, so"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":110.85,"endTime":115.59,"body":"evolution has shaped them to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":110.85,"endTime":115.59,"body":"know what females are. The male"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":115.62,"endTime":118.86,"body":"beetles know what a female"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":115.62,"endTime":118.86,"body":"beetle is. But it turns out that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":119.28,"endTime":122.52,"body":"these beetles are in Western"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":119.28,"endTime":122.52,"body":"Australia and near the Outback"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":122.52,"endTime":126.51,"body":"and in the outback. And so some"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":122.52,"endTime":126.51,"body":"guys, some Australian guys,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":126.54,"endTime":128.97,"body":"we're throwing out these beer"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":126.54,"endTime":128.97,"body":"bottles, they call them studies"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":129.12,"endTime":132.57,"body":"into the Outback. And they're"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":129.12,"endTime":132.57,"body":"dimpled, glossy, and apparently"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":132.57,"endTime":135.6,"body":"just the right shade of brown to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":132.57,"endTime":135.6,"body":"grab the fancy of these beetles."},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":135.6,"endTime":138.18,"body":"And so the male beetles were"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":135.6,"endTime":138.18,"body":"just flocking all over the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":138.18,"endTime":142.47,"body":"bottles trying to mate. And the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":138.18,"endTime":142.47,"body":"females, the real females"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":142.47,"endTime":146.91,"body":"weren't getting anything. So the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":142.47,"endTime":146.91,"body":"species almost went extinct. And"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":146.91,"endTime":150.72,"body":"notice that the male beetles are"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":146.91,"endTime":150.72,"body":"crawling all over these bottles,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":150.72,"endTime":155.01,"body":"they have full body contact, and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":150.72,"endTime":155.01,"body":"yet, they still cannot break the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":155.01,"endTime":158.43,"body":"illusion. And so the species"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":155.01,"endTime":158.43,"body":"almost went extinct. And they"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":158.43,"endTime":161.73,"body":"actually, you know, had to click"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":158.43,"endTime":161.73,"body":"the bottles and do things to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":161.73,"endTime":166.77,"body":"help the Beatles along so. So"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":161.73,"endTime":166.77,"body":"here, we see the male jewel"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":166.77,"endTime":170.31,"body":"Beetle was shaped by evolution,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":166.77,"endTime":170.31,"body":"not to really know what females"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":170.31,"endTime":176.31,"body":"are, but it was shaped with a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":170.31,"endTime":176.31,"body":"sensory trick or hack. A female"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":176.31,"endTime":179.64,"body":"is anything dimpled, glossy and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":176.31,"endTime":179.64,"body":"brown. And apparently the bigger"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":179.64,"endTime":185.19,"body":"the better so, so that instead"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":179.64,"endTime":185.19,"body":"of seeing the truth, evolution"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":185.19,"endTime":189.39,"body":"does things on the cheap. It and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":185.19,"endTime":189.39,"body":"that was the first insight that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":189.39,"endTime":192.93,"body":"made me start to study this was"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":189.39,"endTime":192.93,"body":"I thought, well, evolution might"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":192.93,"endTime":195.15,"body":"be doing things on the cheap. So"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":192.93,"endTime":195.15,"body":"maybe we won't see the truth."},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":195.15,"endTime":198.6,"body":"Maybe, maybe we'll just have all"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":195.15,"endTime":198.6,"body":"these tricks and hacks and not"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":198.6,"endTime":201.78,"body":"the truth at all. And it turns"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":198.6,"endTime":201.78,"body":"out, that's part of the story."},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":201.78,"endTime":204.03,"body":"But it's not the deepest part."},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":201.78,"endTime":204.03,"body":"It turns out, there are even"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":204.03,"endTime":207.18,"body":"much deeper reasons why we're"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":204.03,"endTime":207.18,"body":"shaped to see basically no"},{"speaker":"Dr. Donald Hoffman","startTime":207.18,"endTime":208.59,"body":"aspect of objective reality."},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":209.46,"endTime":211.38,"body":"So yeah, and then"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":209.46,"endTime":211.38,"body":"there's some other things too,"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":211.38,"endTime":215.01,"body":"are the, like, the Phantom Limb"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":211.38,"endTime":215.01,"body":"phenomenon is kind of an"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":215.01,"endTime":217.5,"body":"interesting thing that I still"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":215.01,"endTime":217.5,"body":"don't understand this, but"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":217.5,"endTime":222.57,"body":"people will lose their limbs."},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":217.5,"endTime":222.57,"body":"And then they're feeling like"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":222.6,"endTime":225.81,"body":"there's a limb still there, but"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":222.6,"endTime":225.81,"body":"there's not a limb there. So"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":225.81,"endTime":229.02,"body":"that's some sort of air with"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":225.81,"endTime":229.02,"body":"this evolutionary thing as well."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":229.92,"endTime":233.46,"body":"Well, that's right. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":229.92,"endTime":233.46,"body":"we might say, Well, look, maybe"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":233.46,"endTime":237.3,"body":"we don't get the truth with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":233.46,"endTime":237.3,"body":"vision. But surely when I touch"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":237.3,"endTime":240.39,"body":"things, I'm not making that up"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":237.3,"endTime":240.39,"body":"that I mean, touches direct"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":240.39,"endTime":243.39,"body":"contact with objective reality."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":240.39,"endTime":243.39,"body":"So they're, we're perceiving the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":243.39,"endTime":247.74,"body":"truth. But the Phantom Limb"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":243.39,"endTime":247.74,"body":"phenomenon when people have, for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":247.74,"endTime":252.18,"body":"example, they lose lose an arm."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":247.74,"endTime":252.18,"body":"In many cases, they'll they'll"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":252.18,"endTime":255.69,"body":"complain that they still feel a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":252.18,"endTime":255.69,"body":"hand and that often they have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":255.69,"endTime":259.26,"body":"pain in the hand in the arm, for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":255.69,"endTime":259.26,"body":"example, that that isn't there."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":259.26,"endTime":261.12,"body":"And if you ask them, where's the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":259.26,"endTime":261.12,"body":"pain, they'll point to empty"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":261.12,"endTime":264.96,"body":"space, and they feel a pain in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":261.12,"endTime":264.96,"body":"empty space. That's where they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":264.99,"endTime":270.27,"body":"refer the pain to. And from a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":264.99,"endTime":270.27,"body":"neurobiological perspective, one"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":270.27,"endTime":273.93,"body":"would argue that this is because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":270.27,"endTime":273.93,"body":"there are areas of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":273.93,"endTime":279.24,"body":"somatosensory cortex that are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":273.93,"endTime":279.24,"body":"that are getting bad input or no"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":279.24,"endTime":284.67,"body":"input. And so as a result, this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":279.24,"endTime":284.67,"body":"is a cortical thing, I think for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":284.67,"endTime":287.55,"body":"deeper reasons that the brain"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":284.67,"endTime":287.55,"body":"doesn't even exist when it's not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":287.55,"endTime":290.79,"body":"perceived. So, so we'd have to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":287.55,"endTime":290.79,"body":"go after a deeper explanation."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":290.79,"endTime":293.37,"body":"But But, but if we just stick"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":290.79,"endTime":293.37,"body":"with a standard neurobiological"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":293.37,"endTime":300.81,"body":"explanation, the Phantom Limb"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":293.37,"endTime":300.81,"body":"sufferers are perceiving have a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":300.81,"endTime":304.77,"body":"hand in an arm and feeling pain"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":300.81,"endTime":304.77,"body":"in it even when in fact, there"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":304.77,"endTime":308.79,"body":"is no hand and arm. So that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":304.77,"endTime":308.79,"body":"also an illusory perception. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":308.79,"endTime":313.32,"body":"so so the idea that our senses"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":308.79,"endTime":313.32,"body":"have been shaped, to show us"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":313.38,"endTime":317.88,"body":"truths about objective reality,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":313.38,"endTime":317.88,"body":"which is something we all deeply"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":317.88,"endTime":320.91,"body":"believe, when we when we don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":317.88,"endTime":320.91,"body":"even believe we just know it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":320.91,"endTime":323.49,"body":"true, right? We just know that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":320.91,"endTime":323.49,"body":"that mean, how else could it be?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":323.7,"endTime":327.06,"body":"It turns out that we're just,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":323.7,"endTime":327.06,"body":"we're deeply wrong and our best"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":327.18,"endTime":330.15,"body":"evolutionary theory, analysis"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":327.18,"endTime":330.15,"body":"tells us that that's just not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":330.15,"endTime":334.56,"body":"the case, we we've been shaped"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":330.15,"endTime":334.56,"body":"with, essentially a user"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":334.56,"endTime":338.04,"body":"interface, like your desktop"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":334.56,"endTime":338.04,"body":"interface for a virtual reality"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":338.04,"endTime":341.49,"body":"headset that you use to play a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":338.04,"endTime":341.49,"body":"game. So we're shaped with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":341.49,"endTime":344.85,"body":"something to allow us to play"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":341.49,"endTime":344.85,"body":"the game of life, our senses"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":344.88,"endTime":348.75,"body":"allow us to play the game of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":344.88,"endTime":348.75,"body":"life. But what's really going on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":348.75,"endTime":351.42,"body":"is hidden from us because we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":348.75,"endTime":351.42,"body":"don't need to know it, just like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":351.45,"endTime":355.83,"body":"you're playing a virtual reality"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":351.45,"endTime":355.83,"body":"game, with with automobiles and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":355.83,"endTime":358.71,"body":"cars that you're racing, and so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":355.83,"endTime":358.71,"body":"forth, that you don't really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":358.71,"endTime":361.35,"body":"need to know about the diodes"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":358.71,"endTime":361.35,"body":"and resistors and voltages that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":361.35,"endTime":363.72,"body":"you're really manipulating"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":361.35,"endTime":363.72,"body":"inside some super computer. If"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":363.72,"endTime":366.81,"body":"you had to toggle those voltages"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":363.72,"endTime":366.81,"body":"to play the game, you couldn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":366.81,"endTime":371.7,"body":"do it. So the VR headsets there"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":366.81,"endTime":371.7,"body":"to really allow you to play the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":371.7,"endTime":374.58,"body":"game without knowing what it is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":371.7,"endTime":374.58,"body":"that you're really playing on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":374.64,"endTime":377.34,"body":"that. Namely, you don't have to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":374.64,"endTime":377.34,"body":"know about the supercomputer and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":377.34,"endTime":379.56,"body":"all the software that's in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":377.34,"endTime":379.56,"body":"there. And so that's what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":379.56,"endTime":383.16,"body":"evolution really did for us. It"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":379.56,"endTime":383.16,"body":"allowed us to play the game of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":383.16,"endTime":386.85,"body":"life. And we don't need to know"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":383.16,"endTime":386.85,"body":"the reality, we just need to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":386.85,"endTime":389.01,"body":"know the right user interface."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":386.85,"endTime":389.01,"body":"And so that's what our senses"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":389.01,"endTime":390.12,"body":"have been shaped to be."},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":390.42,"endTime":392.34,"body":"Right. And it's, I"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":390.42,"endTime":392.34,"body":"mean, it's different for"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":392.34,"endTime":395.04,"body":"different species, like the"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":392.34,"endTime":395.04,"body":"fish, you know, fish can live"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":395.04,"endTime":398.31,"body":"underwater, obviously, we can't."},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":395.04,"endTime":398.31,"body":"But now, do you think that we"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":398.31,"endTime":401.94,"body":"were designed that way"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":398.31,"endTime":401.94,"body":"originally? Because how did we"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":401.94,"endTime":405.21,"body":"evolve if like, because I think"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":401.94,"endTime":405.21,"body":"you said that in originally that"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":405.48,"endTime":408.93,"body":"we could see everything and we"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":405.48,"endTime":408.93,"body":"could see the full interface and"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":408.93,"endTime":412.23,"body":"it was didn't help us? It was"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":408.93,"endTime":412.23,"body":"actually what would destroy us."},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":412.23,"endTime":415.71,"body":"So then, how did we did we start"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":412.23,"endTime":415.71,"body":"there and then evolve over time?"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":415.71,"endTime":418.62,"body":"Are we just designed originally"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":415.71,"endTime":418.62,"body":"with that interface?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":419.7,"endTime":421.26,"body":"Well, in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":419.7,"endTime":421.26,"body":"simulations that some of my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":421.26,"endTime":424.26,"body":"graduate students have done on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":421.26,"endTime":424.26,"body":"this using genetic algorithms,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":424.26,"endTime":427.02,"body":"and so forth, Justin, Mark, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":424.26,"endTime":427.02,"body":"Brian Marion and other graduate"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":427.02,"endTime":430.2,"body":"students, what we found is that,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":427.02,"endTime":430.2,"body":"when you just start off with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":430.23,"endTime":435.69,"body":"random genes in your simulated"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":430.23,"endTime":435.69,"body":"creatures, that there's very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":435.69,"endTime":438.78,"body":"little chance that you'll ever"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":435.69,"endTime":438.78,"body":"get a creature, an organism"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":438.9,"endTime":441.87,"body":"evolving, that even has the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":438.9,"endTime":441.87,"body":"right genes for seeing the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":441.87,"endTime":447.12,"body":"truth. So my guess is on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":441.87,"endTime":447.12,"body":"evolutionary grounds, just using"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":447.12,"endTime":450.42,"body":"evolutionary theory on its own"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":447.12,"endTime":450.42,"body":"terms, probably there's never"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":450.42,"endTime":455.28,"body":"been a point in history, except"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":450.42,"endTime":455.28,"body":"maybe some trivial thing now,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":455.28,"endTime":459.12,"body":"and then by complete accident,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":455.28,"endTime":459.12,"body":"where the sensory systems would"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":459.12,"endTime":462.57,"body":"ever see reality as it is, my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":459.12,"endTime":462.57,"body":"guess is that has never"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":462.57,"endTime":465.42,"body":"happened. Again, this is just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":462.57,"endTime":465.42,"body":"based on evolutionary theory,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":465.42,"endTime":467.97,"body":"right? I don't know what the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":465.42,"endTime":467.97,"body":"truth is. All I'm saying is that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":468.15,"endTime":470.64,"body":"when you take evolution by"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":468.15,"endTime":470.64,"body":"natural selection, seriously,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":470.79,"endTime":477.15,"body":"this is what the mathematics"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":470.79,"endTime":477.15,"body":"says, you know, we can argue"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":477.15,"endTime":479.64,"body":"about whether that's the right"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":477.15,"endTime":479.64,"body":"theory or not, but that's the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":479.64,"endTime":482.7,"body":"best theory the scientists have."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":479.64,"endTime":482.7,"body":"And so that's the reason I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":482.7,"endTime":484.71,"body":"studying that theory, because we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":482.7,"endTime":484.71,"body":"have no better theory than"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":484.71,"endTime":487.53,"body":"evolution by natural selection."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":484.71,"endTime":487.53,"body":"And in particular, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":487.53,"endTime":490.23,"body":"mathematical version of it that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":487.53,"endTime":490.23,"body":"John Maynard Smith came up with,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":490.23,"endTime":493.26,"body":"which is evolutionary game"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":490.23,"endTime":493.26,"body":"theory, and evolutionary graph"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":493.26,"endTime":497.43,"body":"theory. So So all I'm saying, so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":493.26,"endTime":497.43,"body":"I won't be doctrinaire all else."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":497.46,"endTime":501.93,"body":"All I'll say is this, as a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":497.46,"endTime":501.93,"body":"scientist is just my job to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":501.93,"endTime":504.66,"body":"study the best scientific"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":501.93,"endTime":504.66,"body":"theories we have today. I'm not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":504.66,"endTime":506.34,"body":"saying that they're the final"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":504.66,"endTime":506.34,"body":"word. I'm not saying that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":506.34,"endTime":509.22,"body":"they're the truth. But they are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":506.34,"endTime":509.22,"body":"the best theories we have today."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":509.49,"endTime":513.84,"body":"And the best theory we have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":509.49,"endTime":513.84,"body":"today about sensory evolution is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":513.84,"endTime":517.95,"body":"very clear, the probability is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":513.84,"endTime":517.95,"body":"zero that any organism has ever"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":517.98,"endTime":522.03,"body":"perceived the truth in any way."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":517.98,"endTime":522.03,"body":"Now, we may not like that. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":522.03,"endTime":524.64,"body":"we may then want to find a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":522.03,"endTime":524.64,"body":"deeper theory. But we don't have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":524.64,"endTime":526.65,"body":"a deeper theory right now. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":524.64,"endTime":526.65,"body":"this is the best theory we've"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":526.65,"endTime":528.42,"body":"got. And that's what it means."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":526.65,"endTime":528.42,"body":"All"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":528.42,"endTime":530.55,"body":"right. So there's"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":528.42,"endTime":530.55,"body":"the evolutionary that theory."},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":530.55,"endTime":533.61,"body":"And then you say there's also"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":530.55,"endTime":533.61,"body":"problems with the space time"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":534.06,"endTime":536.88,"body":"continuum theory like that's, I"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":534.06,"endTime":536.88,"body":"mean, that's basically what a"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":536.88,"endTime":539.37,"body":"lot of this stuff is talking"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":536.88,"endTime":539.37,"body":"about, like the things that we"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":539.37,"endTime":542.19,"body":"see are not real. So then that"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":539.37,"endTime":542.19,"body":"means like, a lot of the space"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":542.19,"endTime":544.38,"body":"time theories are not accurate"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":542.19,"endTime":544.38,"body":"as well."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":545.49,"endTime":548.46,"body":"Right? That's one of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":545.49,"endTime":548.46,"body":"the radical implications of this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":548.46,"endTime":551.1,"body":"theory, from evolution by"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":548.46,"endTime":551.1,"body":"natural selection, it clearly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":551.1,"endTime":557.1,"body":"entails that no aspect of our"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":551.1,"endTime":557.1,"body":"sensory perceptions are telling"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":557.1,"endTime":560.19,"body":"us the truth. And that includes"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":557.1,"endTime":560.19,"body":"the big structure, like space"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":560.19,"endTime":565.32,"body":"and time. Those are also just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":560.19,"endTime":565.32,"body":"merely convenient data"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":565.32,"endTime":569.25,"body":"structures that we evolved to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":565.32,"endTime":569.25,"body":"survive there. They're not there"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":569.25,"endTime":572.97,"body":"to show us the truth. And you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":569.25,"endTime":572.97,"body":"might say, okay, look, Hoffman"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":572.97,"endTime":575.67,"body":"is just a cognitive scientist"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":572.97,"endTime":575.67,"body":"studying this stuff. We're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":575.67,"endTime":579.87,"body":"talking space and time. That's,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":575.67,"endTime":579.87,"body":"that's the domain of physicists,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":579.87,"endTime":582.99,"body":"right. So surely the physicist"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":579.87,"endTime":582.99,"body":"will put this whole thing to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":582.99,"endTime":586.74,"body":"rest. Well, it turns out that,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":582.99,"endTime":586.74,"body":"no, the physicists are quite"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":586.74,"endTime":591.03,"body":"onboard. Independently, they,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":586.74,"endTime":591.03,"body":"based on their own theories,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":591.03,"endTime":593.82,"body":"namely, when they put quantum"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":591.03,"endTime":593.82,"body":"field theory together with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":594.18,"endTime":597.09,"body":"Einstein's theory of gravity,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":594.18,"endTime":597.09,"body":"general relativity. They come to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":597.09,"endTime":601.98,"body":"the same conclusion that space"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":597.09,"endTime":601.98,"body":"and time or Einstein's fusion of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":601.98,"endTime":606.15,"body":"space and time into space time"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":601.98,"endTime":606.15,"body":"is not fundamental. So they will"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":606.15,"endTime":610.92,"body":"say, space time is doomed. So if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":606.15,"endTime":610.92,"body":"you if you just Google, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":610.92,"endTime":616.53,"body":"phrase space time is doomed, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":610.92,"endTime":616.53,"body":"will be sent to the videos and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":616.53,"endTime":620.46,"body":"so forth of physicists, who will"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":616.53,"endTime":620.46,"body":"tell you with great precision,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":620.46,"endTime":623.46,"body":"why space and time cannot be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":620.46,"endTime":623.46,"body":"fundamental. And that includes"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":623.46,"endTime":626.67,"body":"quantum theory. So quantum"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":623.46,"endTime":626.67,"body":"theory, and the Hilbert spaces"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":626.67,"endTime":629.01,"body":"of quantum theory are not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":626.67,"endTime":629.01,"body":"fundamental, either. There's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":629.01,"endTime":631.92,"body":"some deeper structure and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":629.01,"endTime":631.92,"body":"they're finding, by the way, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":631.92,"endTime":637.14,"body":"younger physicists aren't upset"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":631.92,"endTime":637.14,"body":"about this, this is fun for the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":637.17,"endTime":640.08,"body":"new generation of physicists"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":637.17,"endTime":640.08,"body":"mean space and time has been the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":640.08,"endTime":643.5,"body":"framework for centuries. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":640.08,"endTime":643.5,"body":"now, they have, they're the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":643.5,"endTime":646.62,"body":"first generation of physicists"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":643.5,"endTime":646.62,"body":"that gets to go beyond space"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":646.62,"endTime":649.8,"body":"time. And they are finding these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":646.62,"endTime":649.8,"body":"beautiful new structures, things"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":649.8,"endTime":652.98,"body":"called the cosmological"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":649.8,"endTime":652.98,"body":"polytopes, and the amplitude"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":652.98,"endTime":657.21,"body":"hedron, and associate hedron."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":652.98,"endTime":657.21,"body":"These are these beautiful,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":657.24,"endTime":663.15,"body":"mathematically defined geometric"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":657.24,"endTime":663.15,"body":"shapes beyond space time, that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":663.15,"endTime":666.48,"body":"have no notion of time or space"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":663.15,"endTime":666.48,"body":"built into them. Technically,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":666.48,"endTime":669.87,"body":"they have no notion of unitarity"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":666.48,"endTime":669.87,"body":"or locality that which we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":669.87,"endTime":673.62,"body":"haven't space time. So so they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":669.87,"endTime":673.62,"body":"and they have no notion of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":673.62,"endTime":676.02,"body":"Hilbert space in them. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":673.62,"endTime":676.02,"body":"there's no quantum theory there."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":676.23,"endTime":679.23,"body":"So these are structures beyond"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":676.23,"endTime":679.23,"body":"space, time and beyond quantum"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":679.23,"endTime":685.53,"body":"theory. But these structures"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":679.23,"endTime":685.53,"body":"predict experimental data in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":685.53,"endTime":687.72,"body":"space and time like at the Large"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":685.53,"endTime":687.72,"body":"Hadron Collider, when you're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":687.72,"endTime":691.77,"body":"smashing particles together and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":687.72,"endTime":691.77,"body":"seeing what sprays out, you're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":691.77,"endTime":694.77,"body":"looking at those kinds of so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":691.77,"endTime":694.77,"body":"called scattering events and the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":694.77,"endTime":698.43,"body":"amplitudes of the probabilities"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":694.77,"endTime":698.43,"body":"for those events. These new deep"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":698.43,"endTime":702.6,"body":"structures give you wonderful"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":698.43,"endTime":702.6,"body":"simple computations for them"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":702.6,"endTime":705.42,"body":"much simpler than if you do them"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":702.6,"endTime":705.42,"body":"in space and time. So the math"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":705.42,"endTime":708.36,"body":"becomes easier. When you let go"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":705.42,"endTime":708.36,"body":"of space and time, the math"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":708.36,"endTime":712.53,"body":"becomes easier. And they've"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":708.36,"endTime":712.53,"body":"discovered new symmetries that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":712.53,"endTime":715.77,"body":"are true of the scattering"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":712.53,"endTime":715.77,"body":"events when using like, have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":715.77,"endTime":719.31,"body":"two, so called gluons smash into"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":715.77,"endTime":719.31,"body":"each other and four gluons go"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":719.31,"endTime":723.33,"body":"spreche. This spring up. There"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":719.31,"endTime":723.33,"body":"are symmetries in those"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":723.33,"endTime":726.48,"body":"interactions that you don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":723.33,"endTime":726.48,"body":"really see in spacetime. But you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":726.48,"endTime":730.02,"body":"do see them once you let go of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":726.48,"endTime":730.02,"body":"spacetime. So called dual"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":730.02,"endTime":733.08,"body":"conformal symmetry, that that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":730.02,"endTime":733.08,"body":"true of the scattering data, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":733.08,"endTime":735.72,"body":"you can't see it in space time."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":733.08,"endTime":735.72,"body":"So the physicists are saying"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":735.72,"endTime":740.76,"body":"space time is doomed, is not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":735.72,"endTime":740.76,"body":"fundamental in physics. And when"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":740.76,"endTime":744.03,"body":"you let go of it, all of a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":740.76,"endTime":744.03,"body":"sudden, all sorts of new vistas"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":744.03,"endTime":746.04,"body":"open up that are really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":744.03,"endTime":746.04,"body":"exciting. And the younger"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":746.04,"endTime":748.89,"body":"generation is jumping in and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":746.04,"endTime":748.89,"body":"having a good time exploring"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":748.89,"endTime":752.52,"body":"this new realm. So it's overflow"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":748.89,"endTime":752.52,"body":"space time, and it's a big party"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":752.52,"endTime":752.91,"body":"out there."},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":754.019,"endTime":756.149,"body":"But isn't just"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":754.019,"endTime":756.149,"body":"space time. And they're just"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":756.149,"endTime":758.219,"body":"saying, you're saying that's"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":756.149,"endTime":758.219,"body":"part of the interface that's"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":758.219,"endTime":761.519,"body":"very surface and it goes much"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":758.219,"endTime":761.519,"body":"deeper? That's what you mean by"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":761.519,"endTime":764.189,"body":"it's not fundamental right?"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":761.519,"endTime":764.189,"body":"Like, that's not the basis of"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":764.189,"endTime":766.769,"body":"it. This is just part of the"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":764.189,"endTime":766.769,"body":"interface. And then it goes even"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":766.769,"endTime":767.699,"body":"below that,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":768.36,"endTime":771.36,"body":"that that's exactly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":768.36,"endTime":771.36,"body":"right. So so evolutionary theory"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":771.36,"endTime":774.45,"body":"makes it very, very clear that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":771.36,"endTime":774.45,"body":"that spacetime has to be just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":775.11,"endTime":778.23,"body":"like our headset, it's like the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":775.11,"endTime":778.23,"body":"the heads up that we're right,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":778.26,"endTime":782.28,"body":"it's not fundamental, and then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":778.26,"endTime":782.28,"body":"the physicist independently, not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":782.28,"endTime":784.92,"body":"thinking about evolutionary"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":782.28,"endTime":784.92,"body":"theory at all, just based on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":784.92,"endTime":788.49,"body":"gravity and quantum field theory"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":784.92,"endTime":788.49,"body":"and how they interact, have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":788.61,"endTime":791.76,"body":"concluded the spacetime cannot"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":788.61,"endTime":791.76,"body":"be fundamental that there has"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":791.76,"endTime":795.09,"body":"been and so that so that's not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":791.76,"endTime":795.09,"body":"fundamental in the sense that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":795.09,"endTime":798.21,"body":"there is a much, much deeper"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":795.09,"endTime":798.21,"body":"structure. It's like, we used to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":798.21,"endTime":802.05,"body":"think that earth, air, fire and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":798.21,"endTime":802.05,"body":"water, were the basic elements,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":802.05,"endTime":805.38,"body":"right? Well, we discovered"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":802.05,"endTime":805.38,"body":"they're not with me, they're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":805.38,"endTime":808.11,"body":"interesting. earth, air, fire"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":805.38,"endTime":808.11,"body":"and water are interesting. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":808.11,"endTime":809.7,"body":"if you're going to build a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":808.11,"endTime":809.7,"body":"theory of everything, you're not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":809.7,"endTime":812.61,"body":"going to build it on earth, air,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":809.7,"endTime":812.61,"body":"fire and water. Well, that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":812.64,"endTime":814.74,"body":"what's happened with space time,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":812.64,"endTime":814.74,"body":"we thought that we could build a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":814.74,"endTime":817.83,"body":"theory of everything based on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":814.74,"endTime":817.83,"body":"space time, but just like earth,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":817.83,"endTime":820.44,"body":"air, fire and water, it turns"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":817.83,"endTime":820.44,"body":"out not to be fundamental. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":820.44,"endTime":824.7,"body":"so there's these these new"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":820.44,"endTime":824.7,"body":"polytopes, these new structures"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":824.7,"endTime":829.62,"body":"beyond space time that have just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":824.7,"endTime":829.62,"body":"been discovered in the last 12"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":829.62,"endTime":833.49,"body":"to 15 years, this is brand new"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":829.62,"endTime":833.49,"body":"stuff is very, very new. But the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":833.52,"endTime":836.91,"body":"interesting thing is they're not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":833.52,"endTime":836.91,"body":"finding any dynamics. They've"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":836.91,"endTime":840.9,"body":"just got the static shapes right"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":836.91,"endTime":840.9,"body":"now. There's no notion of who"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":840.9,"endTime":843.96,"body":"ordered them, why are they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":840.9,"endTime":843.96,"body":"there? Why are they capturing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":843.96,"endTime":845.94,"body":"everything that we know about in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":843.96,"endTime":845.94,"body":"space and time? There's no"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":845.94,"endTime":849.21,"body":"dynamic, there's nothing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":845.94,"endTime":849.21,"body":"dynamical about them in any"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":849.21,"endTime":850.98,"body":"sense. So we don't know what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":849.21,"endTime":850.98,"body":"it's about"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":851.13,"endTime":853.26,"body":"or something and"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":851.13,"endTime":853.26,"body":"they see the shapes and the"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":853.26,"endTime":855.69,"body":"micros are how do they how do"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":853.26,"endTime":855.69,"body":"they even see them? Or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":855.72,"endTime":859.44,"body":"no, wow. So they're in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":855.72,"endTime":859.44,"body":"high dimensions. So they're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":859.44,"endTime":863.67,"body":"beyond four dimensions in many"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":859.44,"endTime":863.67,"body":"cases. So so they're the way"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":863.67,"endTime":867.51,"body":"they're finding them use"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":863.67,"endTime":867.51,"body":"mathematics. They're discovering"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":867.51,"endTime":870.99,"body":"these structures mathematically."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":867.51,"endTime":870.99,"body":"And they're proving that the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":870.99,"endTime":874.47,"body":"structures actually compute the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":870.99,"endTime":874.47,"body":"scattering amplitudes correctly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":874.47,"endTime":878.58,"body":"and show you new symmetries that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":874.47,"endTime":878.58,"body":"aren't there. So the flashlight"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":879.0,"endTime":884.04,"body":"into the Dark Beyond spacetime,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":879.0,"endTime":884.04,"body":"is mathematics. And these these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":884.04,"endTime":889.32,"body":"brilliant geniuses in so Nima or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":884.04,"endTime":889.32,"body":"Connie Hamid, one mole to Siena"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":889.32,"endTime":892.38,"body":"and lots of people that are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":889.32,"endTime":892.38,"body":"working with them, all of whom"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":892.41,"endTime":895.95,"body":"are saying those two guys are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":892.41,"endTime":895.95,"body":"saying spacetime was doomed. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":896.31,"endTime":899.22,"body":"Nathan CyberGhost saying that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":896.31,"endTime":899.22,"body":"David gross. There's a bunch of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":899.22,"endTime":902.16,"body":"physicists who are very, very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":899.22,"endTime":902.16,"body":"famous who are saying space time"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":902.16,"endTime":906.21,"body":"is doomed. And they're, they're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":902.16,"endTime":906.21,"body":"using mathematics to discover"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":906.21,"endTime":909.18,"body":"structures beyond space time."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":906.21,"endTime":909.18,"body":"And they know they're onto"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":909.18,"endTime":912.12,"body":"something when they can take"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":909.18,"endTime":912.12,"body":"those structures, and project"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":912.12,"endTime":915.75,"body":"them back into space time and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":912.12,"endTime":915.75,"body":"get back what we know is is true"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":915.75,"endTime":918.99,"body":"within space time. Okay, true"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":915.75,"endTime":918.99,"body":"experiments we can do within"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":918.99,"endTime":919.47,"body":"spacetime."},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":919.5,"endTime":921.69,"body":"So some of the"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":919.5,"endTime":921.69,"body":"things that we do know a little"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":921.69,"endTime":925.47,"body":"bit about, like the black holes"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":921.69,"endTime":925.47,"body":"and the wormholes. What is going"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":925.47,"endTime":929.19,"body":"on there, then is that is that a"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":925.47,"endTime":929.19,"body":"mistake in the interface or?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":930.33,"endTime":934.05,"body":"Well, so black holes"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":930.33,"endTime":934.05,"body":"are really one of the big hints"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":934.05,"endTime":937.53,"body":"that space time is doomed. So so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":934.05,"endTime":937.53,"body":"I'll just go into it just a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":937.53,"endTime":941.52,"body":"little bit. Okay. So the, what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":937.53,"endTime":941.52,"body":"the physicist will point out is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":941.52,"endTime":948.66,"body":"that when you want to study at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":941.52,"endTime":948.66,"body":"smaller and smaller scales, what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":948.66,"endTime":950.28,"body":"you're seeing in space time,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":948.66,"endTime":950.28,"body":"like you want to use a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":950.28,"endTime":953.31,"body":"microscope to look down to see"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":950.28,"endTime":953.31,"body":"things you can't see at a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":953.31,"endTime":956.94,"body":"smaller scale, what you have to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":953.31,"endTime":956.94,"body":"do is use light that has smaller"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":956.94,"endTime":959.46,"body":"and smaller wavelengths, right"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":956.94,"endTime":959.46,"body":"to resolve the smaller and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":959.46,"endTime":963.12,"body":"smaller stuff. Well, with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":959.46,"endTime":963.12,"body":"quantum theory, that's no"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":963.12,"endTime":966.06,"body":"problem, you can just make"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":963.12,"endTime":966.06,"body":"smaller and smaller wavelengths"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":966.06,"endTime":969.9,"body":"as much as you want, the energy"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":966.06,"endTime":969.9,"body":"goes up, the smaller wavelengths"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":969.9,"endTime":973.71,"body":"of light have more and more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":969.9,"endTime":973.71,"body":"energy. So you have put more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":973.71,"endTime":976.2,"body":"energy but but in principle, if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":973.71,"endTime":976.2,"body":"you had enough energy, you could"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":976.2,"endTime":979.74,"body":"go as small as you want it. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":976.2,"endTime":979.74,"body":"gravity is the party pooper"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":979.74,"endTime":982.62,"body":"here, because as soon as you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":979.74,"endTime":982.62,"body":"start getting more and more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":982.62,"endTime":984.72,"body":"energy into a smaller, smaller"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":982.62,"endTime":984.72,"body":"space, because you're getting"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":984.72,"endTime":987.96,"body":"these finer wavelengths of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":984.72,"endTime":987.96,"body":"light, Einstein tells us that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":987.96,"endTime":991.89,"body":"that energy is equal to mass"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":987.96,"endTime":991.89,"body":"equals MC squared. And so you're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":991.89,"endTime":994.26,"body":"getting more and more mass"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":991.89,"endTime":994.26,"body":"concentrated into a smaller"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":994.26,"endTime":997.95,"body":"area. And once you get enough of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":994.26,"endTime":997.95,"body":"it, you create a black hole. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":997.95,"endTime":1000.17,"body":"all of a sudden, you can't, that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":997.95,"endTime":1000.17,"body":"you're trying to see something"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1000.17,"endTime":1003.29,"body":"really small, and all of a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1000.17,"endTime":1003.29,"body":"sudden, you've destroyed it. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1003.29,"endTime":1005.93,"body":"if you say, Well, I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1003.29,"endTime":1005.93,"body":"try to go smaller, smaller, I'll"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1005.93,"endTime":1008.66,"body":"put more energy in smaller,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1005.93,"endTime":1008.66,"body":"smaller wavelengths, the black"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1008.66,"endTime":1011.72,"body":"hole just gets bigger and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1008.66,"endTime":1011.72,"body":"bigger, bigger. So effectively,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1012.02,"endTime":1015.77,"body":"what happens is we know when"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1012.02,"endTime":1015.77,"body":"spacetime ceases to make sense,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1016.13,"endTime":1021.53,"body":"is precisely around 10 to the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1016.13,"endTime":1021.53,"body":"minus 33 centimeters. And that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1021.53,"endTime":1024.83,"body":"not very deep, I would be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1021.53,"endTime":1024.83,"body":"impressed if it was 10 to the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1024.83,"endTime":1028.43,"body":"minus 33 trillion, but it's only"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1024.83,"endTime":1028.43,"body":"10 to the minus 33 centimeters,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1028.43,"endTime":1031.88,"body":"this doesn't go very deep. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1028.43,"endTime":1031.88,"body":"beyond that, the very notion of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1031.88,"endTime":1035.21,"body":"space time and space and time,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1031.88,"endTime":1035.21,"body":"so time, it's a 10 to the minus"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1035.21,"endTime":1039.14,"body":"43 seconds. So it's not that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1035.21,"endTime":1039.14,"body":"they're pixels of space. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1039.14,"endTime":1042.02,"body":"time, it's not like there's some"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1039.14,"endTime":1042.02,"body":"kind of digital surface that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1042.02,"endTime":1046.34,"body":"we're reaching is rather than"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1042.02,"endTime":1046.34,"body":"the very idea of space, time, or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1046.34,"endTime":1049.13,"body":"space and time, simply don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1046.34,"endTime":1049.13,"body":"make sense. There's no"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1049.16,"endTime":1053.27,"body":"operational meaning to them."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1049.16,"endTime":1053.27,"body":"There's no way of putting any"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1053.27,"endTime":1057.62,"body":"meaning to the concepts of space"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1053.27,"endTime":1057.62,"body":"and time. So that means that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1057.62,"endTime":1061.28,"body":"number one, the ontology of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1057.62,"endTime":1061.28,"body":"space time, which has been the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1061.28,"endTime":1064.67,"body":"fundamental ontology of science"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1061.28,"endTime":1064.67,"body":"is over. And we don't know what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1064.67,"endTime":1067.4,"body":"the deeper ontology is yet. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1064.67,"endTime":1067.4,"body":"this is really cool. All right,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1067.49,"endTime":1070.64,"body":"this x has been about space and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1067.49,"endTime":1070.64,"body":"time and what happens in space"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1070.64,"endTime":1073.4,"body":"time. And now we don't know what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1070.64,"endTime":1073.4,"body":"physics is about yet. We're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1073.4,"endTime":1076.64,"body":"finding these, well, they're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1073.4,"endTime":1076.64,"body":"finding I'm not the physicists"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1076.64,"endTime":1080.21,"body":"are finding these these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1076.64,"endTime":1080.21,"body":"polytopes these geometric"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1080.21,"endTime":1084.14,"body":"structures beyond spacetime. We"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1080.21,"endTime":1084.14,"body":"don't know what they're about."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1084.5,"endTime":1086.63,"body":"We don't know if there's any"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1084.5,"endTime":1086.63,"body":"dynamics that we're missing,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1086.72,"endTime":1089.3,"body":"that what that whole world is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1086.72,"endTime":1089.3,"body":"about, we don't know, we've only"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1089.3,"endTime":1092.63,"body":"seen the structures in the last"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1089.3,"endTime":1092.63,"body":"12 to 15 years. So so we're just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1092.63,"endTime":1094.91,"body":"like, we've got our flashlights"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1092.63,"endTime":1094.91,"body":"on them. But we know that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1094.91,"endTime":1098.36,"body":"they're there. And we know that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1094.91,"endTime":1098.36,"body":"they work. But what it's about,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1098.39,"endTime":1102.11,"body":"we don't know. So it's pretty,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1098.39,"endTime":1102.11,"body":"pretty exciting stuff,"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":1102.139,"endTime":1104.149,"body":"right? Because"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":1102.139,"endTime":1104.149,"body":"like, I know that I remember"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":1104.179,"endTime":1107.239,"body":"somebody telling me like, you"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":1104.179,"endTime":1107.239,"body":"know, time travel, the way that"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":1107.239,"endTime":1109.999,"body":"time travel would work is like"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":1107.239,"endTime":1109.999,"body":"the because of the speed of"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":1109.999,"endTime":1113.539,"body":"light. Like if you had a really"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":1109.999,"endTime":1113.539,"body":"long telescope, and you were in"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":1113.749,"endTime":1116.809,"body":"another universe, and you had it"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":1113.749,"endTime":1116.809,"body":"and it was 10 million light"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":1116.809,"endTime":1118.999,"body":"years away, I would or you would"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":1116.809,"endTime":1118.999,"body":"see like the dinosaurs and"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":1118.999,"endTime":1122.209,"body":"stuff, right? But that's still"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":1118.999,"endTime":1122.209,"body":"just on the surface of the"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":1122.209,"endTime":1125.629,"body":"interface. So even you could go"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":1122.209,"endTime":1125.629,"body":"even deeper below that you could"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":1125.629,"endTime":1126.799,"body":"find out a shortcut."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1127.97,"endTime":1130.97,"body":"That's, that's really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1127.97,"endTime":1130.97,"body":"an interesting possibility. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1130.97,"endTime":1133.22,"body":"we haven't worked that out yet."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1130.97,"endTime":1133.22,"body":"But But right now, you're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1133.22,"endTime":1136.46,"body":"absolutely right. To get to the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1133.22,"endTime":1136.46,"body":"nearest star, it's it's, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1136.46,"endTime":1139.82,"body":"know, it takes several years at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1136.46,"endTime":1139.82,"body":"the speed of light. And to the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1139.94,"endTime":1142.91,"body":"to the nearest galaxy would take"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1139.94,"endTime":1142.91,"body":"several million years to the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1142.91,"endTime":1147.74,"body":"Andromeda Galaxy is like 2.4"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1142.91,"endTime":1147.74,"body":"million light years away or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1147.74,"endTime":1151.46,"body":"something like that. It's so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1147.74,"endTime":1151.46,"body":"you, you're not going to make it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1151.46,"endTime":1153.14,"body":"your grandkids aren't going to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1151.46,"endTime":1153.14,"body":"make it your great great"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1153.14,"endTime":1155.33,"body":"grandkids aren't going to make"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1153.14,"endTime":1155.33,"body":"it out, you know, how do we get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1155.33,"endTime":1159.95,"body":"there? Well, if spacetime isn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1155.33,"endTime":1159.95,"body":"fundamental, if it's basically"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1159.95,"endTime":1164.93,"body":"just a data structure, a headset"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1159.95,"endTime":1164.93,"body":"that we've evolved, then if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1164.93,"endTime":1168.23,"body":"we're sharp enough to figure out"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1164.93,"endTime":1168.23,"body":"what's behind that data"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1168.23,"endTime":1170.75,"body":"structure, maybe we won't have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1168.23,"endTime":1170.75,"body":"to go through spacetime, we can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1170.75,"endTime":1173.75,"body":"go around it. So maybe we'll"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1170.75,"endTime":1173.75,"body":"find ways of just, I want to go"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1173.75,"endTime":1176.84,"body":"to approximate star, Proxima"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1173.75,"endTime":1176.84,"body":"Centauri, one of the nearest"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1176.84,"endTime":1179.51,"body":"star, I don't have to spend"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1176.84,"endTime":1179.51,"body":"years at the speed of light"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1179.51,"endTime":1182.24,"body":"going through space, maybe I'll"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1179.51,"endTime":1182.24,"body":"be able to figure out how to go"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1182.27,"endTime":1185.81,"body":"around space. Just like when"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1182.27,"endTime":1185.81,"body":"Maxwell came up with the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1185.81,"endTime":1188.6,"body":"equations of electromagnetism."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1185.81,"endTime":1188.6,"body":"All of a sudden, we found a way"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1188.6,"endTime":1191.48,"body":"to just talk to people on the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1188.6,"endTime":1191.48,"body":"other side of the world without"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1191.48,"endTime":1194.51,"body":"having to do what we thought we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1191.48,"endTime":1194.51,"body":"would have to do. So new"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1194.51,"endTime":1198.5,"body":"technologies, open up all these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1194.51,"endTime":1198.5,"body":"new possibilities. So no, I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1198.5,"endTime":1200.81,"body":"not saying that the physicists"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1198.5,"endTime":1200.81,"body":"have found how I'm not allowed"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1200.81,"endTime":1203.93,"body":"to go around space time yet. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1200.81,"endTime":1203.93,"body":"so I'm not saying that that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1204.26,"endTime":1206.81,"body":"established. But I am saying"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1204.26,"endTime":1206.81,"body":"that you know, it's a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1207.08,"endTime":1210.38,"body":"tantalizing possibility. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1207.08,"endTime":1210.38,"body":"once we understand these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1210.38,"endTime":1214.01,"body":"structures beyond space time,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1210.38,"endTime":1214.01,"body":"that's we always know that there"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1214.01,"endTime":1217.16,"body":"will be new technologies. Every"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1214.01,"endTime":1217.16,"body":"time our science advances,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1217.34,"endTime":1221.42,"body":"technology comes along, that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1217.34,"endTime":1221.42,"body":"seems miraculous compared to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1221.42,"endTime":1224.12,"body":"what we had before. So I tried"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1221.42,"endTime":1224.12,"body":"the same here. So"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":1224.119,"endTime":1225.859,"body":"that's what I think"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":1224.119,"endTime":1225.859,"body":"the question is of I'm sure"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":1225.859,"endTime":1228.709,"body":"you're trying to answer is what"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":1225.859,"endTime":1228.709,"body":"is what is behind the curtain?"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":1228.709,"endTime":1231.349,"body":"What is the real reality if"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":1228.709,"endTime":1231.349,"body":"though, if what we're living in"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":1231.349,"endTime":1234.679,"body":"is kind of maybe just an"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":1231.349,"endTime":1234.679,"body":"interface and a perception of"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":1234.709,"endTime":1236.899,"body":"we're not seeing the real"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":1234.709,"endTime":1236.899,"body":"reality? What is behind the"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":1236.899,"endTime":1237.349,"body":"curtain?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1239.089,"endTime":1244.429,"body":"Right, so our theories"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1239.089,"endTime":1244.429,"body":"are good enough to tell us where"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1244.429,"endTime":1246.979,"body":"they stop. Right? So spacetime"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1244.429,"endTime":1246.979,"body":"is doomed. We, our theories"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1246.979,"endTime":1249.139,"body":"tell, but our theories don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1246.979,"endTime":1249.139,"body":"tell us what's behind the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1249.139,"endTime":1252.739,"body":"curtain. Right? And so that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1249.139,"endTime":1252.739,"body":"why it's sort of fun for the new"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1252.739,"endTime":1255.049,"body":"physicists and also for, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1252.739,"endTime":1255.049,"body":"know, cognitive scientists like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1255.049,"endTime":1259.819,"body":"me to ask, okay, well, so our"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1255.049,"endTime":1259.819,"body":"theories aren't going to tell us"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1260.119,"endTime":1264.709,"body":"what's beyond space and time. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1260.119,"endTime":1264.709,"body":"we get to make creative leaps."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1265.489,"endTime":1268.129,"body":"Come up with our own ideas about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1265.489,"endTime":1268.129,"body":"what's beyond space and time."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1268.399,"endTime":1270.889,"body":"And you there, you can get any"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1268.399,"endTime":1270.889,"body":"ideas that you want, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1271.009,"endTime":1273.409,"body":"in any way you want to maybe"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1271.009,"endTime":1273.409,"body":"it's driving, you know, drinking"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1273.409,"endTime":1275.659,"body":"or smoking or something,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1273.409,"endTime":1275.659,"body":"something or whatever it might"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1275.659,"endTime":1278.809,"body":"be. But eventually, you have to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1275.659,"endTime":1278.809,"body":"get a mathematically precise, be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1278.809,"endTime":1281.869,"body":"sober, and then go make"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1278.809,"endTime":1281.869,"body":"predictions that you can test"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1281.869,"endTime":1286.129,"body":"inside space and time. So the,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1281.869,"endTime":1286.129,"body":"the idea that I'm playing with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1286.129,"endTime":1291.739,"body":"is that consciousness is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1286.129,"endTime":1291.739,"body":"fundamental. So this turns"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1291.739,"endTime":1295.849,"body":"everything around. Most of like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1291.739,"endTime":1295.849,"body":"my colleagues, for example, in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1295.849,"endTime":1299.209,"body":"cognitive neuroscience, think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1295.849,"endTime":1299.209,"body":"that space and time is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1299.209,"endTime":1302.329,"body":"fundamental, because that's the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1299.209,"endTime":1302.329,"body":"way it's been until very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1302.329,"endTime":1307.429,"body":"recently. And that therefore"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1302.329,"endTime":1307.429,"body":"things like brains, are the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1307.429,"endTime":1310.039,"body":"source of consciousness, somehow"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1307.429,"endTime":1310.039,"body":"brain activity causes our"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1310.039,"endTime":1314.089,"body":"conscious experiences. Well,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1310.039,"endTime":1314.089,"body":"spacetime isn't fundamental. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1314.089,"endTime":1317.149,"body":"objects in space time aren't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1314.089,"endTime":1317.149,"body":"fundamental. That means"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1317.149,"endTime":1321.049,"body":"particles, like protons,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1317.149,"endTime":1321.049,"body":"electrons, gluons, and so forth."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1321.259,"endTime":1324.379,"body":"These aren't fundamental, these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1321.259,"endTime":1324.379,"body":"are just part of the interface,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1324.379,"endTime":1328.099,"body":"and so is the brain. So it's not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1324.379,"endTime":1328.099,"body":"going to be making consciousness"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1328.099,"endTime":1332.059,"body":"because in some sense, the brain"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1328.099,"endTime":1332.059,"body":"doesn't even exist when it's not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1332.059,"endTime":1335.089,"body":"perceived all of these things,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1332.059,"endTime":1335.089,"body":"all objects in space and time,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1335.269,"endTime":1338.479,"body":"just like the objects in your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1335.269,"endTime":1338.479,"body":"virtual reality headset. Like if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1338.479,"endTime":1341.389,"body":"I'm if I'm playing a game of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1338.479,"endTime":1341.389,"body":"Grand Theft Auto in a VR"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1341.389,"endTime":1347.119,"body":"headset. I look over and I see a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1341.389,"endTime":1347.119,"body":"red Camaro. Well, the Camaro"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1347.119,"endTime":1350.269,"body":"only exists when I look, as soon"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1347.119,"endTime":1350.269,"body":"as I turn my headsets over there"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1350.269,"endTime":1354.829,"body":"and see a white Porsche. I've"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1350.269,"endTime":1354.829,"body":"deleted the red Camaro there,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1354.829,"endTime":1356.959,"body":"and there is no red Camaro in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1354.829,"endTime":1356.959,"body":"the computer. If you look, if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1356.959,"endTime":1359.059,"body":"you look on the supercomputer,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1356.959,"endTime":1359.059,"body":"there's no red Camaro in there."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1359.059,"endTime":1362.059,"body":"There's diodes and resistors and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1359.059,"endTime":1362.059,"body":"software and voltages, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1362.059,"endTime":1365.149,"body":"there's no red Camaro anywhere."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1362.059,"endTime":1365.149,"body":"The only red Camaro is the one I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1365.149,"endTime":1368.569,"body":"made when I looked over there,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1365.149,"endTime":1368.569,"body":"and that Camaro disappeared when"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1368.569,"endTime":1371.239,"body":"I looked over there and saw a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1368.569,"endTime":1371.239,"body":"white muscle, a white Ferrari,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1371.239,"endTime":1375.109,"body":"or whatever I saw over there. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1371.239,"endTime":1375.109,"body":"we're making this stuff up on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1375.109,"endTime":1378.409,"body":"the fly, and then deleting it as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1375.109,"endTime":1378.409,"body":"soon as we look away. And that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1378.409,"endTime":1381.859,"body":"true of the brain. We create"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1378.409,"endTime":1381.859,"body":"brains and neurons when we look"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1381.859,"endTime":1385.279,"body":"inside skulls. And as soon as we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1381.859,"endTime":1385.279,"body":"look away, we delete them. Now"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1385.309,"endTime":1387.829,"body":"there is some reality we're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1385.309,"endTime":1387.829,"body":"interacting with, just like with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1388.009,"endTime":1391.639,"body":"when I see the red Camaro, there"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1388.009,"endTime":1391.639,"body":"is a reality. I'm interacting"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1391.639,"endTime":1395.239,"body":"within that metaphor. But it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1391.639,"endTime":1395.239,"body":"nothing like a red Camaro was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1395.239,"endTime":1397.249,"body":"not red. It's not Camaro shape."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1395.239,"endTime":1397.249,"body":"There's nothing like it. It's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1397.249,"endTime":1400.009,"body":"like circuits and software and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1397.249,"endTime":1400.009,"body":"diodes and resistors, something"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1400.039,"endTime":1403.909,"body":"utterly different. And so, so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1400.039,"endTime":1403.909,"body":"the same thing is going to be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1403.909,"endTime":1408.169,"body":"true about brains and neurons"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1403.909,"endTime":1408.169,"body":"that that's what we see when we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1408.169,"endTime":1410.809,"body":"look in a certain way. But what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1408.169,"endTime":1410.809,"body":"we're really interacting with,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1411.079,"endTime":1414.469,"body":"has nothing in space and time."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1411.079,"endTime":1414.469,"body":"And so I'm proposing with my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1414.469,"endTime":1417.319,"body":"colleagues in shaytaan, Prakash"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1414.469,"endTime":1417.319,"body":"and Manish Singh and Robert"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1417.319,"endTime":1420.379,"body":"threatener. And Chris fields and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1417.319,"endTime":1420.379,"body":"other brilliant colleagues that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1420.379,"endTime":1424.069,"body":"have been working with, we're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1420.379,"endTime":1424.069,"body":"proposing a mathematical model"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1424.069,"endTime":1426.769,"body":"of consciousness. So we're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1424.069,"endTime":1426.769,"body":"turning things around, we're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1426.769,"endTime":1430.759,"body":"saying instead of saying that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1426.769,"endTime":1430.759,"body":"the brain or you know, maybe the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1430.759,"endTime":1433.849,"body":"right kinds of artificial"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1430.759,"endTime":1433.849,"body":"intelligences can create"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1433.999,"endTime":1437.959,"body":"consciousness is the other way"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1433.999,"endTime":1437.959,"body":"around, we have a mathematical"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1437.959,"endTime":1441.169,"body":"model of consciousness, we have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1437.959,"endTime":1441.169,"body":"to show how that could lead to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1441.169,"endTime":1445.249,"body":"the creation of space and time"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1441.169,"endTime":1445.249,"body":"as a data structure, and then to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1445.249,"endTime":1449.659,"body":"objects like brains inside that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1445.249,"endTime":1449.659,"body":"data structure. So the idea"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1449.659,"endTime":1451.759,"body":"would be consciousness creates"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1449.659,"endTime":1451.759,"body":"space and time and it creates"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1451.759,"endTime":1454.999,"body":"brains, just just the reverse."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1451.759,"endTime":1454.999,"body":"Instead of having brains create"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1454.999,"endTime":1457.699,"body":"consciousness, it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1454.999,"endTime":1457.699,"body":"consciousness creates brains."},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":1457.91,"endTime":1460.25,"body":"So how do you do"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":1457.91,"endTime":1460.25,"body":"that? How do you how do you find"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":1460.25,"endTime":1461.24,"body":"out that formula?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1462.8,"endTime":1466.61,"body":"Well, so we published"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1462.8,"endTime":1466.61,"body":"one. So if people are interested"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1466.61,"endTime":1469.49,"body":"and want to just see what this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1466.61,"endTime":1469.49,"body":"would look like, we have a paper"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1469.49,"endTime":1472.46,"body":"called objects of consciousness."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1469.49,"endTime":1472.46,"body":"So if you just Google my name"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1472.46,"endTime":1475.22,"body":"and objects of consciousness,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1472.46,"endTime":1475.22,"body":"it's online for free. So you can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1475.22,"endTime":1478.25,"body":"just pick it up real easy. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1475.22,"endTime":1478.25,"body":"you can see what we did. But at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1478.25,"endTime":1481.55,"body":"top level, if you think about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1478.25,"endTime":1481.55,"body":"it, if you want a scientific"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1481.55,"endTime":1485.03,"body":"theory of consciousness, there's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1481.55,"endTime":1485.03,"body":"lots of things that that are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1485.3,"endTime":1488.66,"body":"going to have to be talked about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1485.3,"endTime":1488.66,"body":"in consciousness. There's the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1488.69,"endTime":1494.21,"body":"notion of a self, perhaps free"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1488.69,"endTime":1494.21,"body":"will, learning, memory, problem"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1494.21,"endTime":1499.37,"body":"solving, intelligence planning,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1494.21,"endTime":1499.37,"body":"the raw experiences of you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1499.37,"endTime":1502.34,"body":"tasting cheese Chocolate, we're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1499.37,"endTime":1502.34,"body":"having a headache. All we think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1502.37,"endTime":1505.97,"body":"all these things are gonna be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1502.37,"endTime":1505.97,"body":"part of, of what we want to talk"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1505.97,"endTime":1510.41,"body":"about in consciousness. So for a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1505.97,"endTime":1510.41,"body":"scientist, creating a theory of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1510.41,"endTime":1514.52,"body":"consciousness, we want to take"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1510.41,"endTime":1514.52,"body":"the smallest number of parts of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1514.52,"endTime":1518.6,"body":"consciousness, the smallest"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1514.52,"endTime":1518.6,"body":"aspect of consciousness that we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1518.6,"endTime":1521.78,"body":"can get away with, turn that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1518.6,"endTime":1521.78,"body":"into mathematics, because we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1521.78,"endTime":1524.9,"body":"want to then prove all the rest"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1521.78,"endTime":1524.9,"body":"follows. You don't want to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1524.9,"endTime":1527.18,"body":"assume everything, because then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1524.9,"endTime":1527.18,"body":"it's all everything's a miracle."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1527.27,"endTime":1529.82,"body":"If you just assume everything,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1527.27,"endTime":1529.82,"body":"I'm going to assume freewill,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1529.82,"endTime":1532.67,"body":"I'm going to assume cells, I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1529.82,"endTime":1532.67,"body":"gonna assume learning. If I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1532.67,"endTime":1535.37,"body":"assume all that stuff, there's,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1532.67,"endTime":1535.37,"body":"there's no work for me to do. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1535.58,"endTime":1538.97,"body":"what we've assumed in our theory"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1535.58,"endTime":1538.97,"body":"is what we think is a very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1538.97,"endTime":1542.03,"body":"minimal set, we assume that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1538.97,"endTime":1542.03,"body":"there are conscious experiences."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1543.17,"endTime":1548.84,"body":"And that they can affect other"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1543.17,"endTime":1548.84,"body":"conscious experiences. So we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1548.84,"endTime":1552.53,"body":"have this idea of, of conscious"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1548.84,"endTime":1552.53,"body":"units or conscious agents, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1552.92,"endTime":1555.44,"body":"the word agent may bring in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1552.92,"endTime":1555.44,"body":"notion of a self. So I'll call"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1555.44,"endTime":1558.44,"body":"it a conscious unit for the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1555.44,"endTime":1558.44,"body":"moment. And these conscious"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1558.44,"endTime":1560.72,"body":"units have certain set of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1558.44,"endTime":1560.72,"body":"conscious experiences that they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1560.72,"endTime":1563.6,"body":"could have like a head ache, or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1560.72,"endTime":1563.6,"body":"the smell of garlic or something"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1563.6,"endTime":1567.35,"body":"like that. And they can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1563.6,"endTime":1567.35,"body":"probabilistically affect the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1567.38,"endTime":1570.17,"body":"conscious experiences of other"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1567.38,"endTime":1570.17,"body":"conscious units. That's it,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1570.17,"endTime":1573.89,"body":"that's all we assume. And from"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1570.17,"endTime":1573.89,"body":"that, we can prove that in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1573.89,"endTime":1576.86,"body":"principle, we can boot up"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1573.89,"endTime":1576.86,"body":"learning memory, problem"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1576.86,"endTime":1583.19,"body":"solving, even a notion of self,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1576.86,"endTime":1583.19,"body":"but as a construct, not as a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1583.19,"endTime":1586.91,"body":"fundamental thing, but as a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1583.19,"endTime":1586.91,"body":"construct of consciousness. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1587.36,"endTime":1590.12,"body":"and then the other thing we have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1587.36,"endTime":1590.12,"body":"to do is to then show how we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1590.12,"endTime":1593.99,"body":"would get space and time arising"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1590.12,"endTime":1593.99,"body":"from a theory in which"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1593.99,"endTime":1598.52,"body":"consciousness is fundamental."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1593.99,"endTime":1598.52,"body":"And to do that, we're going to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1598.52,"endTime":1601.31,"body":"first have to show how we can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1598.52,"endTime":1601.31,"body":"get the kinds of new structures"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1601.31,"endTime":1603.92,"body":"that the physicists are finding,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1601.31,"endTime":1603.92,"body":"right, that's, they're finding"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1603.92,"endTime":1605.78,"body":"these things called the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1603.92,"endTime":1605.78,"body":"amplitude hedron, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1605.78,"endTime":1608.66,"body":"cosmological polytopes, these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1605.78,"endTime":1608.66,"body":"these geometries that I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1608.66,"endTime":1613.73,"body":"talking about, be behind space"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1608.66,"endTime":1613.73,"body":"and time. And so we, we have a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1613.73,"endTime":1616.64,"body":"way of doing that we are, in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1613.73,"endTime":1616.64,"body":"principle where we're looking at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1616.64,"endTime":1619.88,"body":"the long term, or what's called"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1616.64,"endTime":1619.88,"body":"the asymptotic behavior of these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1620.51,"endTime":1622.61,"body":"interacting conscious agents."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1620.51,"endTime":1622.61,"body":"When you look at the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1622.61,"endTime":1626.12,"body":"asymptotics, you get a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1622.61,"endTime":1626.12,"body":"description in terms of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1626.12,"endTime":1630.05,"body":"permutations, that that's a way"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1626.12,"endTime":1630.05,"body":"of describing the asymptotics."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1630.05,"endTime":1633.14,"body":"And it turns out the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1630.05,"endTime":1633.14,"body":"permutations are the heart of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1633.14,"endTime":1635.6,"body":"the new structures that the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1633.14,"endTime":1635.6,"body":"physicists are finding. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1635.6,"endTime":1638.48,"body":"that's going to be the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1635.6,"endTime":1638.48,"body":"connection that we go after. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1638.48,"endTime":1640.91,"body":"we'll have this. So what's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1638.48,"endTime":1640.91,"body":"interesting is we'll have this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1640.91,"endTime":1643.7,"body":"theory of consciousness where"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1640.91,"endTime":1643.7,"body":"consciousness is fundamental,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1643.85,"endTime":1647.93,"body":"and dynamics. And when we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1643.85,"endTime":1647.93,"body":"project that dynamics on to just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1647.93,"endTime":1651.35,"body":"its long term behavior, which is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1647.93,"endTime":1651.35,"body":"a great simplification of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1651.35,"endTime":1654.95,"body":"dynamics, then we find out that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1651.35,"endTime":1654.95,"body":"we're getting all these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1654.95,"endTime":1658.1,"body":"permutations coming out and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1654.95,"endTime":1658.1,"body":"combinations of permutations."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1658.46,"endTime":1662.36,"body":"Well, that turns out to be the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1658.46,"endTime":1662.36,"body":"backbone of the structures that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1662.36,"endTime":1665.81,"body":"the physicists are finding"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1662.36,"endTime":1665.81,"body":"beyond space time. So we'll"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1665.81,"endTime":1668.18,"body":"connect there, and then the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1665.81,"endTime":1668.18,"body":"physicists tell us how to get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1668.18,"endTime":1671.12,"body":"from there into space time. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1668.18,"endTime":1671.12,"body":"we'll so the physicists have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1671.12,"endTime":1673.94,"body":"done half the work for us. All"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1671.12,"endTime":1673.94,"body":"right. And so that's how I hope"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1673.94,"endTime":1674.9,"body":"to see this thing work out."},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":1674.93,"endTime":1677.06,"body":"Because then the"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":1674.93,"endTime":1677.06,"body":"other the other two things that"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":1677.06,"endTime":1679.04,"body":"I think are going on right now"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":1677.06,"endTime":1679.04,"body":"is like we know, people are"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":1679.04,"endTime":1682.19,"body":"making these virtual reality."},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":1679.04,"endTime":1682.19,"body":"They're doing the metaverse, so"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":1682.19,"endTime":1684.47,"body":"they're making a virtual"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":1682.19,"endTime":1684.47,"body":"reality. So they're doing that"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":1684.47,"endTime":1688.64,"body":"way. And then also the robotics"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":1684.47,"endTime":1688.64,"body":"with the AI. That's another"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":1688.91,"endTime":1693.83,"body":"avenue. Is it does that do those"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":1688.91,"endTime":1693.83,"body":"two fields kind of connect to"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":1693.83,"endTime":1694.88,"body":"yours at all?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1695.66,"endTime":1699.38,"body":"Well, yes, I think that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1695.66,"endTime":1699.38,"body":"the meta verse is going to be a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1699.38,"endTime":1702.86,"body":"big help here in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1699.38,"endTime":1702.86,"body":"psychologically, right now, when"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1702.86,"endTime":1706.13,"body":"I talk about this stuff, people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1702.86,"endTime":1706.13,"body":"of my generation, just find it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1706.13,"endTime":1709.88,"body":"almost impossible. I mean, this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1706.13,"endTime":1709.88,"body":"like, Give me a break, you're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1709.88,"endTime":1712.19,"body":"saying that the brain doesn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1709.88,"endTime":1712.19,"body":"create consciousness,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1712.19,"endTime":1715.04,"body":"consciousness creates the brain,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1712.19,"endTime":1715.04,"body":"that that's and that the brain"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1715.04,"endTime":1717.98,"body":"doesn't exist when it's not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1715.04,"endTime":1717.98,"body":"perceived. Create the brain"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1717.98,"endTime":1721.25,"body":"where I look, and I delete it. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1717.98,"endTime":1721.25,"body":"create the moon when I look. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1721.25,"endTime":1724.55,"body":"then when I look away, the moon"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1721.25,"endTime":1724.55,"body":"doesn't exist. How can you even"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1724.55,"endTime":1728.24,"body":"think about that, but for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1724.55,"endTime":1728.24,"body":"someone, some kid that spent"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1728.24,"endTime":1731.78,"body":"most of his life, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1728.24,"endTime":1731.78,"body":"playing with friends in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1731.78,"endTime":1734.54,"body":"metaverse, he's gonna take off"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1731.78,"endTime":1734.54,"body":"his headset and know that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1734.54,"endTime":1736.55,"body":"everything that he saw there was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1734.54,"endTime":1736.55,"body":"something that he created on the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1736.55,"endTime":1740.27,"body":"fly. If you saw a red Ferrari in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1736.55,"endTime":1740.27,"body":"virtual reality, or in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1740.27,"endTime":1742.79,"body":"metaverse, that was because he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1740.27,"endTime":1742.79,"body":"made up the red Ferrari, there's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1742.79,"endTime":1745.79,"body":"no red Ferrari there. It's it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1742.79,"endTime":1745.79,"body":"all virtual. So when he takes"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1745.79,"endTime":1749.06,"body":"off his headset, the kind of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1745.79,"endTime":1749.06,"body":"stuff I'm talking about will be,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1749.3,"endTime":1752.57,"body":"you know, of course, this won't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1749.3,"endTime":1752.57,"body":"be a big deal. So So I think the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1752.57,"endTime":1754.79,"body":"metaverse the next generation"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1752.57,"endTime":1754.79,"body":"that's raised on the metaverse"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1754.94,"endTime":1758.27,"body":"will just sort of get this. It"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1754.94,"endTime":1758.27,"body":"might my generation doesn't get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1758.27,"endTime":1760.85,"body":"it but but we didn't have this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1758.27,"endTime":1760.85,"body":"technology to help our"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1760.88,"endTime":1764.66,"body":"imagination. But it won't take a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1760.88,"endTime":1764.66,"body":"big imagination for the next"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1764.66,"endTime":1768.14,"body":"generation to get this. So I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1764.66,"endTime":1768.14,"body":"think it will really, really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1768.14,"endTime":1776.36,"body":"help AI will will mean AI helps"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1768.14,"endTime":1776.36,"body":"in a very, very different way."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1776.36,"endTime":1779.36,"body":"So a lot of my colleagues right"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1776.36,"endTime":1779.36,"body":"now are trying to figure out how"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1779.39,"endTime":1782.54,"body":"AIS could become conscious right"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1779.39,"endTime":1782.54,"body":"if we get them programmed in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1782.54,"endTime":1787.22,"body":"right way. They could be come"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1782.54,"endTime":1787.22,"body":"conscious, right? The the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1787.22,"endTime":1791.33,"body":"attitude is, look, we know that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1787.22,"endTime":1791.33,"body":"machines can be conscious. The"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1791.33,"endTime":1794.63,"body":"brain is machine. It's a carbon"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1791.33,"endTime":1794.63,"body":"based machine and it generates"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1794.63,"endTime":1797.87,"body":"consciousness. So if carbon"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1794.63,"endTime":1797.87,"body":"based machines can create"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1797.9,"endTime":1802.13,"body":"consciousness, why not silicon"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1797.9,"endTime":1802.13,"body":"or Other kinds of hardware"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1802.19,"endTime":1805.58,"body":"machines, why can't they create"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1802.19,"endTime":1805.58,"body":"conscience? If so, the idea of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1805.58,"endTime":1809.03,"body":"most of my colleagues is that if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1805.58,"endTime":1809.03,"body":"you have the right function to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1809.03,"endTime":1813.29,"body":"the right software running"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1809.03,"endTime":1813.29,"body":"effectively, in on the hardware,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1813.35,"endTime":1819.95,"body":"then you can somehow create"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1813.35,"endTime":1819.95,"body":"consciousness. So what I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1819.95,"endTime":1824.54,"body":"saying is that that approach"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1819.95,"endTime":1824.54,"body":"won't work. Because FaceTime"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1824.54,"endTime":1827.72,"body":"isn't fundamental. Consciousness"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1824.54,"endTime":1827.72,"body":"isn't being booted up from"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1827.72,"endTime":1830.06,"body":"physical stuff is the other way"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1827.72,"endTime":1830.06,"body":"around, the physical stuff is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1830.06,"endTime":1833.54,"body":"being booted up from"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1830.06,"endTime":1833.54,"body":"consciousness. So, but do I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1833.54,"endTime":1837.32,"body":"think that we could eventually"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1833.54,"endTime":1837.32,"body":"build things that are AI? Is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1837.32,"endTime":1840.62,"body":"that effectively our"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1837.32,"endTime":1840.62,"body":"consciousness? I think so. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1840.62,"endTime":1841.1,"body":"was there a way"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":1841.099,"endTime":1843.319,"body":"to transfer if"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":1841.099,"endTime":1843.319,"body":"someone dying? Could they"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":1843.319,"endTime":1846.619,"body":"transfer their consciousness"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":1843.319,"endTime":1846.619,"body":"into a virtual reality or into"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":1846.619,"endTime":1848.119,"body":"an AI robot?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1849.049,"endTime":1855.169,"body":"Well, so? That's a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1849.049,"endTime":1855.169,"body":"great question. And it really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1855.619,"endTime":1858.949,"body":"helps, I think, to clarify the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1855.619,"endTime":1858.949,"body":"different issues here. So the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1858.949,"endTime":1861.829,"body":"way that most of my colleagues"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1858.949,"endTime":1861.829,"body":"think about this is they would"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1861.829,"endTime":1865.819,"body":"say, Look, if we if we're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1861.829,"endTime":1865.819,"body":"thinking about the brain as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1865.819,"endTime":1869.629,"body":"creating consciousness, and as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1865.819,"endTime":1869.629,"body":"somehow the programs running in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1869.629,"endTime":1872.359,"body":"the brain that are really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1869.629,"endTime":1872.359,"body":"critical to that, once we can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1872.359,"endTime":1876.079,"body":"sort of decipher what those"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1872.359,"endTime":1876.079,"body":"programs are, we could download"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1876.079,"endTime":1878.959,"body":"those programs into a computer"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1876.079,"endTime":1878.959,"body":"and run those programs on a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1878.959,"endTime":1881.269,"body":"computer and the computer would"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1878.959,"endTime":1881.269,"body":"have your consciousness so we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1881.269,"endTime":1884.269,"body":"could download all of your your,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1881.269,"endTime":1884.269,"body":"your personality and your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1884.269,"endTime":1886.849,"body":"consciousness into that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1884.269,"endTime":1886.849,"body":"computer. But notice, that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1886.849,"endTime":1889.759,"body":"assuming that the computer"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1886.849,"endTime":1889.759,"body":"exists when it's not perceived."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1891.019,"endTime":1894.499,"body":"Right. And the AIS can exist"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1891.019,"endTime":1894.499,"body":"from there. But even space time"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1894.499,"endTime":1897.439,"body":"itself doesn't exist when it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1894.499,"endTime":1897.439,"body":"not perceived. So no objects in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1897.439,"endTime":1901.759,"body":"space time is that so that whole"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1897.439,"endTime":1901.759,"body":"framework of of downloading into"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1901.759,"endTime":1904.729,"body":"another physical system to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1901.759,"endTime":1904.729,"body":"preserve your consciousness has"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1904.729,"endTime":1907.849,"body":"to be rethought from the get go."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1904.729,"endTime":1907.849,"body":"But here's how here's how I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1907.849,"endTime":1910.459,"body":"think we can rethink it there."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1907.849,"endTime":1910.459,"body":"But this you have to really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1910.459,"endTime":1916.279,"body":"think out of the box here. Okay."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1910.459,"endTime":1916.279,"body":"So when I am talking with you,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1916.609,"endTime":1920.869,"body":"with with Chuck, I, I know that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1916.609,"endTime":1920.869,"body":"I'm interacting with your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1920.869,"endTime":1924.349,"body":"consciousness, I believe that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1920.869,"endTime":1924.349,"body":"your consciousness is being"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1924.349,"endTime":1927.949,"body":"affected by things that I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1924.349,"endTime":1927.949,"body":"saying, but by ideas in my mind"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1927.949,"endTime":1930.049,"body":"are affecting your ideas, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1927.949,"endTime":1930.049,"body":"your ideas are affecting my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1930.049,"endTime":1934.699,"body":"ideas back and forth. How is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1930.049,"endTime":1934.699,"body":"that happening? Well, through"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1934.699,"endTime":1938.959,"body":"our bodies, well, what are our"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1934.699,"endTime":1938.959,"body":"bodies, we used to think that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1938.959,"endTime":1940.999,"body":"the bodies were these physical"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1938.959,"endTime":1940.999,"body":"things that it just always"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1940.999,"endTime":1944.119,"body":"existed, they were there, right?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1940.999,"endTime":1944.119,"body":"In space and time. Now we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1944.119,"endTime":1946.879,"body":"realize that the bodies are like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1944.119,"endTime":1946.879,"body":"the Ferrari in virtual reality."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1946.939,"endTime":1948.799,"body":"It's there when you create it,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1946.939,"endTime":1948.799,"body":"and it's not there and when you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1948.799,"endTime":1953.239,"body":"don't so so what's going on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1948.799,"endTime":1953.239,"body":"here? Well, your body, really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1953.569,"endTime":1956.539,"body":"the body of the ice of Chuck."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1953.569,"endTime":1956.539,"body":"And right now I'm only seeing it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1956.539,"endTime":1960.109,"body":"through zoom. So I'm really only"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1956.539,"endTime":1960.109,"body":"seeing pixels on the screen. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1960.109,"endTime":1963.919,"body":"nevertheless, I'm getting a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1960.109,"endTime":1963.919,"body":"portal into your conscious"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1963.919,"endTime":1969.259,"body":"experiences. And my body as you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1963.919,"endTime":1969.259,"body":"perceive it, is your portal into"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1969.259,"endTime":1972.799,"body":"my conscious experiences. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1969.259,"endTime":1972.799,"body":"instead of thinking of our"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1972.799,"endTime":1977.599,"body":"bodies as creating conscious"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1972.799,"endTime":1977.599,"body":"experiences, think the other way"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1977.599,"endTime":1982.609,"body":"around, I am creating a body"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1977.599,"endTime":1982.609,"body":"image of Chuck, which is my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1982.609,"endTime":1986.089,"body":"portal into a consciousness"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1982.609,"endTime":1986.089,"body":"behind that, which is Chuck's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1986.089,"endTime":1988.639,"body":"consciousness, which I'm not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1986.089,"endTime":1988.639,"body":"creating Chuck's consciousness"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1988.669,"endTime":1991.969,"body":"checks consciousness is there,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1988.669,"endTime":1991.969,"body":"but I'm getting access to it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1991.969,"endTime":1996.109,"body":"through my portal. Now, when I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1991.969,"endTime":1996.109,"body":"look at my cat, my portal isn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1996.109,"endTime":1999.499,"body":"as good. I have some idea about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1996.109,"endTime":1999.499,"body":"the consciousness of interacting"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1999.499,"endTime":2004.629,"body":"with. And when I look at an ant,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1999.499,"endTime":2004.629,"body":"my portal is quite poor. Now I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2004.629,"endTime":2007.629,"body":"not even sure it is conscious,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2004.629,"endTime":2007.629,"body":"you know, who knows what I have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2007.629,"endTime":2011.589,"body":"a portal that I call, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2007.629,"endTime":2011.589,"body":"like a rock. Now my portal is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2011.589,"endTime":2015.069,"body":"giving me no insight into"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2011.589,"endTime":2015.069,"body":"consciousness. But that is no"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2015.069,"endTime":2019.029,"body":"surprise spacetime is just an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2015.069,"endTime":2019.029,"body":"interface is going to dumb"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2019.029,"endTime":2022.329,"body":"things down. So I'll have better"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2019.029,"endTime":2022.329,"body":"insight into Chuck than I have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2022.329,"endTime":2025.689,"body":"into my cat better insight into"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2022.329,"endTime":2025.689,"body":"my cat than into a rock. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2025.689,"endTime":2028.569,"body":"that's not because I'm not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2025.689,"endTime":2028.569,"body":"dealing with consciousness is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2028.569,"endTime":2032.889,"body":"because my interface has to give"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2028.569,"endTime":2032.889,"body":"up at some point. So so as a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2032.889,"endTime":2039.039,"body":"result, once we understand how"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2032.889,"endTime":2039.039,"body":"these portals work, and we have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2039.039,"endTime":2042.369,"body":"one technology for building new"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2039.039,"endTime":2042.369,"body":"portals, right, we have to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2042.369,"endTime":2046.809,"body":"reverse engineer so the one"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2042.369,"endTime":2046.809,"body":"technology that we all know, we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2046.809,"endTime":2050.739,"body":"can use to build new portals"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2046.809,"endTime":2050.739,"body":"into consciousness is very low"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2050.739,"endTime":2058.539,"body":"tech. It's having kids when you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2050.739,"endTime":2058.539,"body":"have kids, you are building new"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2058.539,"endTime":2061.659,"body":"portals into consciousness that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2058.539,"endTime":2061.659,"body":"were never there before. So we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2061.659,"endTime":2061.869,"body":"haven't"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2061.87,"endTime":2064.18,"body":"reversible Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2061.87,"endTime":2064.18,"body":"you're creating life."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2064.78,"endTime":2067.12,"body":"You're creating life"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2064.78,"endTime":2067.12,"body":"and consciousness and you're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2067.12,"endTime":2069.82,"body":"accessing a consciousness that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2067.12,"endTime":2069.82,"body":"will surprise you you kids will"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2069.82,"endTime":2074.08,"body":"surprise you know, I'm sure"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2069.82,"endTime":2074.08,"body":"Einstein surprised his dad, with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2074.08,"endTime":2076.96,"body":"his theory of relativity with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2074.08,"endTime":2076.96,"body":"dark are so we were creating new"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2076.96,"endTime":2081.49,"body":"portals that are not the same as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2076.96,"endTime":2081.49,"body":"us. They're they they're opening"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2081.49,"endTime":2083.53,"body":"up new windows into"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2081.49,"endTime":2083.53,"body":"consciousness where we can be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2083.53,"endTime":2087.25,"body":"surprised by what we learn. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2083.53,"endTime":2087.25,"body":"once we understand this whole"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2087.25,"endTime":2091.54,"body":"business of is not body's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2087.25,"endTime":2091.54,"body":"creating consciousness, bodies"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2091.54,"endTime":2094.33,"body":"don't even exist. Spacetime"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2091.54,"endTime":2094.33,"body":"doesn't even exist. Space Time"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2094.33,"endTime":2098.86,"body":"is doomed. bodies in space time"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2094.33,"endTime":2098.86,"body":"are data structures in our"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2098.86,"endTime":2102.85,"body":"consciousness. and some of those"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2098.86,"endTime":2102.85,"body":"data structures open good"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2102.85,"endTime":2105.82,"body":"portals into consciousness."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2102.85,"endTime":2105.82,"body":"Others are, you know, like my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2105.82,"endTime":2108.76,"body":"rock structure is not a very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2105.82,"endTime":2108.76,"body":"good portal into consciousness."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2108.76,"endTime":2111.37,"body":"It's very good for other things,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2108.76,"endTime":2111.37,"body":"but not for me understanding"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2111.37,"endTime":2111.97,"body":"consciousness."},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2112.029,"endTime":2114.939,"body":"So there may be"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2112.029,"endTime":2114.939,"body":"some other world or some because"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2114.939,"endTime":2117.789,"body":"where's that consciousness"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2114.939,"endTime":2117.789,"body":"coming from? I mean, it's it's"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2117.789,"endTime":2119.079,"body":"coming from somewhere"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2119.83,"endTime":2122.86,"body":"outside of space and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2119.83,"endTime":2122.86,"body":"time. So that somewhere but but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2122.86,"endTime":2126.28,"body":"not in space and time, space and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2122.86,"endTime":2126.28,"body":"time itself is just a data"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2126.28,"endTime":2129.43,"body":"structure. So this the theory of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2126.28,"endTime":2129.43,"body":"conscious agents that I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2129.43,"endTime":2132.73,"body":"working on, is, is a theory in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2129.43,"endTime":2132.73,"body":"which there are there are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2132.73,"endTime":2137.05,"body":"countless conscious agents. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2132.73,"endTime":2137.05,"body":"in some sense, they're, they're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2137.05,"endTime":2140.32,"body":"just in this abstract space."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2137.05,"endTime":2140.32,"body":"They don't need space and time,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2140.35,"endTime":2143.5,"body":"except as a user interface to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2140.35,"endTime":2143.5,"body":"interact with each other. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2143.5,"endTime":2145.18,"body":"they're not trapped in space,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2143.5,"endTime":2145.18,"body":"like something"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2145.18,"endTime":2147.07,"body":"basically, we can't"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2145.18,"endTime":2147.07,"body":"even wrap our head around. So is"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2147.07,"endTime":2147.7,"body":"what you're saying?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2148.359,"endTime":2153.099,"body":"Well, I think some of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2148.359,"endTime":2153.099,"body":"us, older folks will be able to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2153.099,"endTime":2155.979,"body":"wrap our heads around it. But I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2153.099,"endTime":2155.979,"body":"think the younger generation"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2156.219,"endTime":2160.179,"body":"will, will just laugh at us. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2156.219,"endTime":2160.179,"body":"they'll they'll, they'll go, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2160.179,"endTime":2162.609,"body":"know, you just had a hard time"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2160.179,"endTime":2162.609,"body":"because you weren't used to it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2162.609,"endTime":2165.429,"body":"when you grew up, just like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2162.609,"endTime":2165.429,"body":"people would think, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2165.429,"endTime":2167.979,"body":"before Maxwell, the idea that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2165.429,"endTime":2167.979,"body":"you could talk with someone they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2167.979,"endTime":2171.039,"body":"lose sight of the world"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2167.979,"endTime":2171.039,"body":"immediately is just insane."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2171.039,"endTime":2175.509,"body":"That's just that's just magic."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2171.039,"endTime":2175.509,"body":"But we just take it for granted."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2175.509,"endTime":2180.939,"body":"And we're not too worried about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2175.509,"endTime":2180.939,"body":"it. But but the one just say in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2181.149,"endTime":2183.789,"body":"terms of what you mentioned"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2181.149,"endTime":2183.789,"body":"about artificial intelligence"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2183.789,"endTime":2188.109,"body":"and consciousness. So now what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2183.789,"endTime":2188.109,"body":"would happen is if we understand"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2188.409,"endTime":2194.199,"body":"how to build new portals, then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2188.409,"endTime":2194.199,"body":"it may turn out that when we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2194.199,"endTime":2197.109,"body":"build new portals, it may"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2194.199,"endTime":2197.109,"body":"involve technology that looks"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2197.109,"endTime":2199.749,"body":"like artificial intelligence, it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2197.109,"endTime":2199.749,"body":"might look like circuits and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2199.749,"endTime":2202.869,"body":"software. But But what will"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2199.749,"endTime":2202.869,"body":"happen will be very, very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2202.869,"endTime":2205.869,"body":"different. It won't be that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2202.869,"endTime":2205.869,"body":"these pre existing circuits and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2205.869,"endTime":2209.859,"body":"software are somehow giving rise"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2205.869,"endTime":2209.859,"body":"to consciousness. It's rather"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2209.859,"endTime":2214.239,"body":"that consciousness has a user"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2209.859,"endTime":2214.239,"body":"interface, and certain tools in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2214.239,"endTime":2216.939,"body":"that interface by which is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2214.239,"endTime":2216.939,"body":"opening a new portal into"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2216.939,"endTime":2221.259,"body":"consciousness. And that tool"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2216.939,"endTime":2221.259,"body":"that portal happens to look like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2221.259,"endTime":2226.059,"body":"an artificial intelligence. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2221.259,"endTime":2226.059,"body":"so it's going to be so so the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2226.059,"endTime":2229.419,"body":"answer is yes, AI's could be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2226.059,"endTime":2229.419,"body":"conscious, but it's very, very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2229.419,"endTime":2232.179,"body":"different from the way standard,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2229.419,"endTime":2232.179,"body":"people are thinking about their"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2232.179,"endTime":2236.559,"body":"their thinking, a real physical"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2232.179,"endTime":2236.559,"body":"system that really exists, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2236.589,"endTime":2239.829,"body":"might not be conscious program"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2236.589,"endTime":2239.829,"body":"correctly, could become"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2239.829,"endTime":2242.019,"body":"conscious, I'm saying that whole"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2239.829,"endTime":2242.019,"body":"way of thinking is wrong,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2242.019,"endTime":2245.859,"body":"because space time is doomed."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2242.019,"endTime":2245.859,"body":"But if we think of these things"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2245.859,"endTime":2249.459,"body":"as data structures that we're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2245.859,"endTime":2249.459,"body":"using, and the AI is just a data"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2249.459,"endTime":2252.459,"body":"structure that we create as a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2249.459,"endTime":2252.459,"body":"portal, then yes, we may be able"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2252.459,"endTime":2256.359,"body":"to create API's as data"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2252.459,"endTime":2256.359,"body":"structures, that only exists"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2256.359,"endTime":2260.679,"body":"when we use them. Right? That"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2256.359,"endTime":2260.679,"body":"portal only exists when we even"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2260.679,"endTime":2264.789,"body":"my kid, my data structure for my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2260.679,"endTime":2264.789,"body":"kid only exists when I use it."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2265.149,"endTime":2269.619,"body":"My kids consciousness is there"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2265.149,"endTime":2269.619,"body":"all the time. But But I have no"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2269.619,"endTime":2272.859,"body":"access to it unless I use my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2269.619,"endTime":2272.859,"body":"portal to get access to my kids"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2272.859,"endTime":2275.439,"body":"consciousness. So there is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2272.859,"endTime":2275.439,"body":"something that exists is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2275.439,"endTime":2279.579,"body":"consciousness, and we get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2275.439,"endTime":2279.579,"body":"portals to it that are only"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2279.579,"endTime":2280.929,"body":"existing when we use the portal?"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2281.26,"endTime":2284.83,"body":"Hmm. Do you think"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2281.26,"endTime":2284.83,"body":"that like with dreams, and"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2284.83,"endTime":2289.36,"body":"meditation and do another degree"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2284.83,"endTime":2289.36,"body":"drugs, psychedelic drugs? Or you"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2289.36,"endTime":2292.3,"body":"think you're kind of getting a"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2289.36,"endTime":2292.3,"body":"peek into those portals? Or is"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2292.3,"endTime":2293.68,"body":"it is that something totally"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2292.3,"endTime":2293.68,"body":"different?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2295.15,"endTime":2300.82,"body":"It's quite possible."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2295.15,"endTime":2300.82,"body":"It's quite possible that dreams"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2300.82,"endTime":2307.0,"body":"and drugs may may be giving us"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2300.82,"endTime":2307.0,"body":"new portals in the following"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2307.0,"endTime":2310.24,"body":"sense. It might be for example,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2307.0,"endTime":2310.24,"body":"that our portals are such that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2310.81,"endTime":2315.07,"body":"they can be tweaked. Right, so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2310.81,"endTime":2315.07,"body":"I'm getting an access to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2315.07,"endTime":2318.07,"body":"consciousness in a certain way,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2315.07,"endTime":2318.07,"body":"too, to other conscious"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2318.1,"endTime":2322.24,"body":"consciousnesses in a certain"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2318.1,"endTime":2322.24,"body":"way, through portals. But maybe"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2322.24,"endTime":2325.9,"body":"my interface can be tweaked by"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2322.24,"endTime":2325.9,"body":"drugs, and then I will see new"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2325.9,"endTime":2328.54,"body":"aspects of consciousness that I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2325.9,"endTime":2328.54,"body":"didn't see before. That's quite"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2328.54,"endTime":2331.57,"body":"possible. It's also possible by"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2328.54,"endTime":2331.57,"body":"the way that some drugs, give"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2331.57,"endTime":2334.51,"body":"portals and others just sort of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2331.57,"endTime":2334.51,"body":"screw things up. Right? That"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2334.51,"endTime":2337.75,"body":"mean that that's quite possible"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2334.51,"endTime":2337.75,"body":"as well. So we're going to have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2337.75,"endTime":2340.87,"body":"to, to really answer your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2337.75,"endTime":2340.87,"body":"question deeply, Chuck will have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2340.87,"endTime":2345.49,"body":"to really have a good"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2340.87,"endTime":2345.49,"body":"understanding of the mathematics"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2345.49,"endTime":2348.58,"body":"of this conscious realm that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2345.49,"endTime":2348.58,"body":"I've been talking about, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2348.58,"endTime":2351.79,"body":"what my paper with my colleagues"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2348.58,"endTime":2351.79,"body":"is the first step, but I'm sure"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2351.79,"endTime":2355.51,"body":"that, you know, it's just 1.0"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2351.79,"endTime":2355.51,"body":"There'll be 10.0 and 20.0, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2355.51,"endTime":2358.12,"body":"so forth, we'll be developing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2355.51,"endTime":2358.12,"body":"deeper and deeper mathematical"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2358.12,"endTime":2361.84,"body":"models of mind is not the final"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2358.12,"endTime":2361.84,"body":"word by anything. It's just like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2361.84,"endTime":2365.68,"body":"a baby step in direction we have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2361.84,"endTime":2365.68,"body":"to go. But once we've made"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2366.13,"endTime":2369.91,"body":"further advances, will then be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2366.13,"endTime":2369.91,"body":"able to understand what more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2369.91,"endTime":2373.63,"body":"about what consciousness is up"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2369.91,"endTime":2373.63,"body":"to what these portals are like."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2374.29,"endTime":2378.73,"body":"And then we'll be able to ask,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2374.29,"endTime":2378.73,"body":"okay, what is five Meo DMT?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2378.73,"endTime":2384.61,"body":"Doing? What is you know, pot"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2378.73,"endTime":2384.61,"body":"doing? What, what, what are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2384.61,"endTime":2388.75,"body":"these various what is LSD doing?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2384.61,"endTime":2388.75,"body":"Because we'll be able to reverse"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2388.75,"endTime":2392.92,"body":"engineer these things will say,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2388.75,"endTime":2392.92,"body":"well, so we're DMT that's just a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2392.92,"endTime":2396.07,"body":"user interface symbol. What does"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2392.92,"endTime":2396.07,"body":"it mean in terms of this network"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2396.07,"endTime":2398.86,"body":"of conscious agents? What what I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2396.07,"endTime":2398.86,"body":"see when I see something called"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2398.86,"endTime":2401.71,"body":"DMT what Has that chemical"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2398.86,"endTime":2401.71,"body":"structure really mean in terms"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2401.71,"endTime":2403.72,"body":"of conscious agents? Okay, now"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2401.71,"endTime":2403.72,"body":"that I know what that means with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2403.72,"endTime":2406.18,"body":"conscious agents, how is that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2403.72,"endTime":2406.18,"body":"affecting the dynamics of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2406.18,"endTime":2409.21,"body":"conscious agents? How is that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2406.18,"endTime":2409.21,"body":"affecting my portal to conscious"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2409.21,"endTime":2413.11,"body":"agents? And is it really given"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2409.21,"endTime":2413.11,"body":"me new insights? Or is it just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2413.11,"endTime":2415.57,"body":"screwing things up? So we'll be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2413.11,"endTime":2415.57,"body":"able to answer this. But you can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2415.57,"endTime":2418.69,"body":"see we have a little bit of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2415.57,"endTime":2418.69,"body":"homework to do. Before we before"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2418.69,"endTime":2421.27,"body":"we can answer that question, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2418.69,"endTime":2421.27,"body":"probably won't get to it before"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2421.27,"endTime":2421.93,"body":"dinner. So"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2421.96,"endTime":2424.78,"body":"no, no, but there's"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2421.96,"endTime":2424.78,"body":"a lot of things that I feel like"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2424.78,"endTime":2428.83,"body":"some of this stuff could be"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2424.78,"endTime":2428.83,"body":"connected. That's why you're"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2428.83,"endTime":2431.08,"body":"right, like, like connecting the"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2428.83,"endTime":2431.08,"body":"dots. Like there's so many"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2431.08,"endTime":2434.56,"body":"mysteries in the world that I"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2431.08,"endTime":2434.56,"body":"just feel like this has to be"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2434.56,"endTime":2437.71,"body":"there's something going on here"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2434.56,"endTime":2437.71,"body":"that we don't understand, or the"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2437.71,"endTime":2439.09,"body":"is there some sort of"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2437.71,"endTime":2439.09,"body":"connection?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2441.13,"endTime":2444.73,"body":"I think so it was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2441.13,"endTime":2444.73,"body":"interesting here is that this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2444.73,"endTime":2447.22,"body":"idea that consciousness is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2444.73,"endTime":2447.22,"body":"fundamental. And we can do a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2447.22,"endTime":2450.19,"body":"mathematical model of it means"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2447.22,"endTime":2450.19,"body":"that there's connections outside"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2450.19,"endTime":2453.49,"body":"of space and time that we didn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2450.19,"endTime":2453.49,"body":"see before. space, we always"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2453.49,"endTime":2456.25,"body":"thought that everything had to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2453.49,"endTime":2456.25,"body":"go through spacetime, we had"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2456.25,"endTime":2460.39,"body":"hints of something beyond with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2456.25,"endTime":2460.39,"body":"entanglement. So in quantum"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2460.39,"endTime":2464.98,"body":"physics, we have this notion of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2460.39,"endTime":2464.98,"body":"entanglement. And we have, we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2464.98,"endTime":2466.99,"body":"can have particles that are, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2464.98,"endTime":2466.99,"body":"know, millions of light years"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2466.99,"endTime":2470.47,"body":"apart, that are entangled in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2466.99,"endTime":2470.47,"body":"changing the state of one in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2470.47,"endTime":2473.44,"body":"some sense, we know that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2470.47,"endTime":2473.44,"body":"instantaneously, it changes the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2473.44,"endTime":2476.92,"body":"state of the other. But with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2473.44,"endTime":2476.92,"body":"entanglement, you can't actually"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2476.92,"endTime":2480.37,"body":"send information through"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2476.92,"endTime":2480.37,"body":"spacetime. You it's interesting,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2480.37,"endTime":2482.53,"body":"you know, the correlations are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2480.37,"endTime":2482.53,"body":"there, but you can't send"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2482.86,"endTime":2488.59,"body":"information using them. But once"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2482.86,"endTime":2488.59,"body":"we get a dynamics of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2488.59,"endTime":2493.51,"body":"consciousness beyond space time,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2488.59,"endTime":2493.51,"body":"we may find something even"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2493.51,"endTime":2498.4,"body":"deeper than entanglement that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2493.51,"endTime":2498.4,"body":"would allow us to actually go"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2498.4,"endTime":2502.48,"body":"around space time, as we talked"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2498.4,"endTime":2502.48,"body":"about before. And so So I agree"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2502.48,"endTime":2505.21,"body":"that there's going to be all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2502.48,"endTime":2505.21,"body":"sorts of connections that we're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2505.21,"endTime":2508.93,"body":"going to see that were hidden by"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2505.21,"endTime":2508.93,"body":"our user interface of space and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2508.93,"endTime":2512.53,"body":"time. And technologies are going"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2508.93,"endTime":2512.53,"body":"to come out of this, they're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2512.53,"endTime":2513.46,"body":"going to be mind blown."},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2513.88,"endTime":2515.86,"body":"Well, do you think"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2513.88,"endTime":2515.86,"body":"that someone's already studying"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2515.86,"endTime":2518.68,"body":"this that but it's in secret,"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2515.86,"endTime":2518.68,"body":"like the government is studying"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2518.68,"endTime":2520.66,"body":"this stuff secretly that we"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2518.68,"endTime":2520.66,"body":"don't know about?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2523.81,"endTime":2528.55,"body":"I really doubt that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2523.81,"endTime":2528.55,"body":"they're much further ahead than"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2528.55,"endTime":2535.66,"body":"the physicists this. So I would"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2528.55,"endTime":2535.66,"body":"guess that the if there are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2535.66,"endTime":2537.64,"body":"people in the government that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2535.66,"endTime":2537.64,"body":"are interested in this, they're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2537.67,"endTime":2540.19,"body":"they're just trying to keep up"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2537.67,"endTime":2540.19,"body":"with reading the papers of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2540.19,"endTime":2543.37,"body":"guys like me, Mark Cunningham,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2540.19,"endTime":2543.37,"body":"and Ed Witten, and one Malta"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2543.37,"endTime":2549.28,"body":"Cena, these guys are super"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2543.37,"endTime":2549.28,"body":"geniuses. And they're super"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2549.28,"endTime":2552.43,"body":"creative. There's very, very few"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2549.28,"endTime":2552.43,"body":"people in the entire earth that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2552.43,"endTime":2556.12,"body":"could do what they're doing so."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2552.43,"endTime":2556.12,"body":"So my guess is that if you go to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2556.12,"endTime":2557.92,"body":"the Institute for Advanced Study"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2556.12,"endTime":2557.92,"body":"Princeton, where a lot of these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2557.92,"endTime":2561.07,"body":"guys are, that's where it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2557.92,"endTime":2561.07,"body":"happening, and their"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2561.07,"endTime":2563.74,"body":"collaborators around the world."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2561.07,"endTime":2563.74,"body":"But that's that's where the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2563.74,"endTime":2567.4,"body":"stuff has happened. I'm sure"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2563.74,"endTime":2567.4,"body":"that the really brilliant"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2567.43,"endTime":2571.06,"body":"physicists that are involved,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2567.43,"endTime":2571.06,"body":"reps and secret operations at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2571.06,"endTime":2574.0,"body":"the government are following"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2571.06,"endTime":2574.0,"body":"this, I mean, the big, you begin"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2574.0,"endTime":2578.11,"body":"to realize the implications of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2574.0,"endTime":2578.11,"body":"this and that even the quantum"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2578.11,"endTime":2581.08,"body":"ism fundamental, quantum"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2578.11,"endTime":2581.08,"body":"computing isn't fundamental."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2581.08,"endTime":2583.81,"body":"There's, there's this will, of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2581.08,"endTime":2583.81,"body":"course, go through quantum"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2583.81,"endTime":2587.17,"body":"computing stations will be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2583.81,"endTime":2587.17,"body":"fantastic and liberating. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2587.2,"endTime":2590.17,"body":"going outside of space time,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2587.2,"endTime":2590.17,"body":"that's a completely different"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2590.17,"endTime":2594.43,"body":"and deeper game than than the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2590.17,"endTime":2594.43,"body":"quantum so. So Mike, Mike. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2594.46,"endTime":2597.37,"body":"of course, I don't know, I'm not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2594.46,"endTime":2597.37,"body":"inside those government agencies"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2597.37,"endTime":2600.13,"body":"or anything. But my guess is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2597.37,"endTime":2600.13,"body":"this stuff is so hard and so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2600.13,"endTime":2603.58,"body":"new, that any government agency"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2600.13,"endTime":2603.58,"body":"right now is just trying to play"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2603.58,"endTime":2606.46,"body":"catch up to find out what with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2603.58,"endTime":2606.46,"body":"with the ideas that are coming"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2606.46,"endTime":2610.15,"body":"out of the the, the physicist"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2606.46,"endTime":2610.15,"body":"labs that are really at the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2610.15,"endTime":2613.99,"body":"forefront of this, and the math"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2610.15,"endTime":2613.99,"body":"is really hard. So I mean,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2614.02,"endTime":2617.53,"body":"there's very few people who"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2614.02,"endTime":2617.53,"body":"could actually be contributing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2617.74,"endTime":2621.37,"body":"at a fundamental level. But you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2617.74,"endTime":2621.37,"body":"know, that will probably change"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2621.37,"endTime":2626.8,"body":"in 20 years, in 20 years, when"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2621.37,"endTime":2626.8,"body":"the groundwork is really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2626.89,"endTime":2631.15,"body":"established, then, just like we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2626.89,"endTime":2631.15,"body":"expect that, you know, the NSA"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2631.15,"endTime":2633.61,"body":"probably has some of the best"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2631.15,"endTime":2633.61,"body":"quantum computer hackers in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2633.61,"endTime":2637.0,"body":"world, right, would expect that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2633.61,"endTime":2637.0,"body":"in 20 years, the the federal"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2637.0,"endTime":2640.42,"body":"government will have some of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2637.0,"endTime":2640.42,"body":"best spacetime hackers in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2640.42,"endTime":2641.35,"body":"world, right? Because"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2641.35,"endTime":2644.53,"body":"I would think,"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2641.35,"endTime":2644.53,"body":"yeah, somebody's gonna use this"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2644.56,"endTime":2649.12,"body":"technology, this kit for power."},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2644.56,"endTime":2649.12,"body":"So it seems like it's always"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2649.12,"endTime":2651.4,"body":"what happens with these kinds of"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2649.12,"endTime":2651.4,"body":"things. If they're, I mean, if"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2651.4,"endTime":2653.86,"body":"you really, because then you're"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2651.4,"endTime":2653.86,"body":"talking about being able to"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2653.86,"endTime":2656.89,"body":"control everything at a"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2653.86,"endTime":2656.89,"body":"fundamental level. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2656.89,"endTime":2658.72,"body":"that's, that's some scary power."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2659.83,"endTime":2663.13,"body":"Yeah, if you can play"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2659.83,"endTime":2663.13,"body":"with the very structure of space"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2663.13,"endTime":2668.26,"body":"time and even go around space"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2663.13,"endTime":2668.26,"body":"time. You're playing a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2668.38,"endTime":2670.72,"body":"completely different game than"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2668.38,"endTime":2670.72,"body":"anybody else. And I'm sure"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2670.72,"endTime":2673.09,"body":"everybody else is just going to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2670.72,"endTime":2673.09,"body":"be completely vulnerable to you."},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2675.43,"endTime":2677.95,"body":"Right, so. So if we"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2675.43,"endTime":2677.95,"body":"talked about if it was a"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2677.95,"endTime":2682.81,"body":"simulation, so it's either"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2677.95,"endTime":2682.81,"body":"because we have not invented a"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2682.84,"endTime":2686.38,"body":"full vote virtual reality"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2682.84,"endTime":2686.38,"body":"simulation, like a very, really"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2686.38,"endTime":2689.89,"body":"good one. So either we're the"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2686.38,"endTime":2689.89,"body":"last one to do it. Like maybe"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2689.89,"endTime":2693.22,"body":"there's billions before us. And"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2689.89,"endTime":2693.22,"body":"then we're the last one or we're"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2693.22,"endTime":2695.89,"body":"the first one, right? I mean,"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2693.22,"endTime":2695.89,"body":"it's got to be one of the other."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2697.03,"endTime":2699.1,"body":"You think about, like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2697.03,"endTime":2699.1,"body":"Nick Bostrom has ideas and so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2699.1,"endTime":2701.26,"body":"forth about some evolution"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2699.1,"endTime":2701.26,"body":"theory and so forth. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2701.26,"endTime":2703.36,"body":"we're like, I think"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2701.26,"endTime":2703.36,"body":"it was Neil deGrasse Tyson's,"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2703.36,"endTime":2705.91,"body":"it's like, if we're capable of"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2703.36,"endTime":2705.91,"body":"making simulated reality on this"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2705.91,"endTime":2709.12,"body":"planet, then the odds of us not"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2705.91,"endTime":2709.12,"body":"being in a simulation are"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2709.12,"endTime":2711.58,"body":"billions to one like it because"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2709.12,"endTime":2711.58,"body":"either it's happened a billion"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2711.58,"endTime":2716.26,"body":"times before, or and we are the"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2711.58,"endTime":2716.26,"body":"absolute first conscious beings."},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2716.74,"endTime":2719.29,"body":"So like, how do you distinguish"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2716.74,"endTime":2719.29,"body":"which one it is?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2720.22,"endTime":2726.25,"body":"Right. So the way that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2720.22,"endTime":2726.25,"body":"Nick Bostrom, and Neil deGrasse"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2726.25,"endTime":2729.13,"body":"Tyson are thinking about this is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2726.25,"endTime":2729.13,"body":"fundamentally different from"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2729.13,"endTime":2731.65,"body":"what I'm saying. So this is a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2729.13,"endTime":2731.65,"body":"good way to really contrast the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2731.65,"endTime":2735.31,"body":"ideas, what in the standard"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2731.65,"endTime":2735.31,"body":"simulation kinds of theories"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2735.31,"endTime":2740.44,"body":"that Nick and Neil are talking"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2735.31,"endTime":2740.44,"body":"about, they still assume"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2740.44,"endTime":2744.31,"body":"spacetime is fundamental. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2740.44,"endTime":2744.31,"body":"there's this there's this the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2744.31,"endTime":2748.96,"body":"fundamental the base level, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2744.31,"endTime":2748.96,"body":"first geek with their computer"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2748.96,"endTime":2751.72,"body":"that's running the base level"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2748.96,"endTime":2751.72,"body":"simulation, that's a physical"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2751.72,"endTime":2754.9,"body":"world of space and time world,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2751.72,"endTime":2754.9,"body":"all the other worlds are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2754.9,"endTime":2760.12,"body":"simulations built out of this,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2754.9,"endTime":2760.12,"body":"right. And, and I'm saying"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2760.12,"endTime":2765.07,"body":"something even wilder than that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2760.12,"endTime":2765.07,"body":"the base level is not in space"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2765.07,"endTime":2768.73,"body":"and time, it's consciousness all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2765.07,"endTime":2768.73,"body":"the way down. So it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2768.76,"endTime":2773.68,"body":"consciousness outside, at no"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2768.76,"endTime":2773.68,"body":"point is spacetime, fundamental,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2773.68,"endTime":2776.44,"body":"and consciousness inside of it,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2773.68,"endTime":2776.44,"body":"is the other way around"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2776.5,"endTime":2782.35,"body":"consciousness, and countless"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2776.5,"endTime":2782.35,"body":"kinds of consciousness. I should"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2782.35,"endTime":2784.18,"body":"say a little bit about what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2782.35,"endTime":2784.18,"body":"brought there but countless"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2784.18,"endTime":2787.21,"body":"different kinds of consciousness"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2784.18,"endTime":2787.21,"body":"are out there, only a few of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2787.21,"endTime":2791.41,"body":"them use space and time, most of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2787.21,"endTime":2791.41,"body":"the Morrigan use other kinds of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2791.41,"endTime":2794.05,"body":"ways of interacting with each"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2791.41,"endTime":2794.05,"body":"other space time is just one of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2794.05,"endTime":2798.16,"body":"countless interfaces, and also"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2794.05,"endTime":2798.16,"body":"countless kinds of experiences."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2798.16,"endTime":2802.09,"body":"So the kinds of experiences that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2798.16,"endTime":2802.09,"body":"we have of color, and smell and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2802.09,"endTime":2808.24,"body":"shapes and sounds and so forth"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2802.09,"endTime":2808.24,"body":"touches our trivial subset of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2808.24,"endTime":2811.48,"body":"all the kinds of experiences and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2808.24,"endTime":2811.48,"body":"when you have psychedelics, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2811.48,"endTime":2814.36,"body":"get a little hint that there's a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2811.48,"endTime":2814.36,"body":"lot more than than your normal"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2814.36,"endTime":2817.9,"body":"experience. Well, that that is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2814.36,"endTime":2817.9,"body":"trivial compared to what this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2817.9,"endTime":2824.59,"body":"theory is saying that the, it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2817.9,"endTime":2824.59,"body":"a boundless, endless variety of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2824.59,"endTime":2828.19,"body":"conscious experiences of kinds"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2824.59,"endTime":2828.19,"body":"that you and I can't even"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2828.19,"endTime":2831.1,"body":"imagine. And that's all out"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2828.19,"endTime":2831.1,"body":"there. And they're all being"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2831.1,"endTime":2834.43,"body":"enjoyed by various kinds of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2831.1,"endTime":2834.43,"body":"conscious entities out there."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2834.43,"endTime":2837.25,"body":"So. So yeah, it's a completely"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2834.43,"endTime":2837.25,"body":"different thing than the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2837.25,"endTime":2839.56,"body":"simulation theory in that in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2837.25,"endTime":2839.56,"body":"that sense,"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2839.59,"endTime":2843.31,"body":"okay. Yeah. So when"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2839.59,"endTime":2843.31,"body":"we, when we have kids, and we"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2843.31,"endTime":2846.13,"body":"open up the portal, and we"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2843.31,"endTime":2846.13,"body":"create a life, that's one way"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2846.13,"endTime":2849.16,"body":"but then so then when we die,"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2846.13,"endTime":2849.16,"body":"then what does happen? What do"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2849.16,"endTime":2852.76,"body":"we go back to through that"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2849.16,"endTime":2852.76,"body":"portal into? Or is it another"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2853.24,"endTime":2855.22,"body":"consciousness? Or what happens?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2856.09,"endTime":2858.04,"body":"Yeah, that's a really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2856.09,"endTime":2858.04,"body":"interesting question. We all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2858.04,"endTime":2861.37,"body":"have some skin in the game. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2858.04,"endTime":2861.37,"body":"we're all interested. Yeah, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2861.37,"endTime":2865.21,"body":"answer to that question. And I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2861.37,"endTime":2865.21,"body":"very interested, the the answer"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2865.21,"endTime":2869.08,"body":"is, I don't know. Here's, here's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2865.21,"endTime":2869.08,"body":"some some options that I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2869.11,"endTime":2874.75,"body":"playing with. One is that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2869.11,"endTime":2874.75,"body":"there's, there's two aspects to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2874.75,"endTime":2877.96,"body":"our consciousness that are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2874.75,"endTime":2877.96,"body":"important to you. One is just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2878.02,"endTime":2883.33,"body":"the raw, conscious awareness"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2878.02,"endTime":2883.33,"body":"without any content. So it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2883.33,"endTime":2887.86,"body":"just being like, if you are in a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2883.33,"endTime":2887.86,"body":"dark room, and you let go of all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2887.86,"endTime":2892.15,"body":"font. And you just are and you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2887.86,"endTime":2892.15,"body":"just, you're just aware of being"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2892.15,"endTime":2894.52,"body":"but not aware of anything in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2892.15,"endTime":2894.52,"body":"particular, that's what I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2894.52,"endTime":2897.79,"body":"talking about. Or to put it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2894.52,"endTime":2897.79,"body":"another way, here's another way"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2897.79,"endTime":2900.61,"body":"that you can get it get an idea"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2897.79,"endTime":2900.61,"body":"of what I'm talking about. If"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2900.61,"endTime":2905.44,"body":"you if you close your eyes, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2900.61,"endTime":2905.44,"body":"just pay attention to your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2905.44,"endTime":2908.05,"body":"visual world in front of you."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2905.44,"endTime":2908.05,"body":"You'll notice that what you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2908.05,"endTime":2911.47,"body":"experienced just like dark, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2908.05,"endTime":2911.47,"body":"it's a mottled gray or something"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2911.47,"endTime":2915.97,"body":"like this. Okay, but now, with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2911.47,"endTime":2915.97,"body":"your eyes still closed instead"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2915.97,"endTime":2919.57,"body":"of paying attention in front of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2915.97,"endTime":2919.57,"body":"you pay attention behind you."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2921.01,"endTime":2925.69,"body":"What is it like back there?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2921.01,"endTime":2925.69,"body":"Yeah, cat, mom. Great. It's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2925.69,"endTime":2931.18,"body":"nothing. Yeah. It's just being"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2925.69,"endTime":2931.18,"body":"right. It's really when you do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2931.18,"endTime":2934.72,"body":"to sort of freaky like most of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2931.18,"endTime":2934.72,"body":"us never have even gone there."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2934.72,"endTime":2937.33,"body":"But if you can, you can go there"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2934.72,"endTime":2937.33,"body":"and sort of freak yourself out"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2937.39,"endTime":2940.15,"body":"in front of me. i Yeah, it feels"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2937.39,"endTime":2940.15,"body":"like there's something gray in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2940.15,"endTime":2945.49,"body":"Ryan. But behind me, what is it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2940.15,"endTime":2945.49,"body":"like? Well, it's like nothing is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2945.49,"endTime":2950.59,"body":"just being without anything."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2945.49,"endTime":2950.59,"body":"That's what I'm talking about is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2950.62,"endTime":2955.12,"body":"that's what there's one aspect"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2950.62,"endTime":2955.12,"body":"of us that I think will"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2955.15,"endTime":2958.99,"body":"definitely survive. But now what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2955.15,"endTime":2958.99,"body":"about the the sort of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2958.99,"endTime":2963.82,"body":"interface stories, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2958.99,"endTime":2963.82,"body":"Hoffman son of so and so went to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2963.82,"endTime":2967.06,"body":"such and such place for school"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2963.82,"endTime":2967.06,"body":"likes to eat such and such for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2967.06,"endTime":2969.52,"body":"breakfast? That kind of stuff. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2967.06,"endTime":2969.52,"body":"don't know if that will survive."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2969.58,"endTime":2972.46,"body":"I don't know if that that kind"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2969.58,"endTime":2972.46,"body":"of stuff. Maybe the stuff that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2972.46,"endTime":2975.91,"body":"just isn't needed anymore when"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2972.46,"endTime":2975.91,"body":"you when you die? So maybe"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2976.69,"endTime":2978.88,"body":"because there's this is gets a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2976.69,"endTime":2978.88,"body":"deep question, what is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2978.88,"endTime":2983.05,"body":"consciousness up to? If"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2978.88,"endTime":2983.05,"body":"consciousness is fundamental?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2983.29,"endTime":2985.66,"body":"What is it doing and why? Right?"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2985.81,"endTime":2987.28,"body":"Well, that's an"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2985.81,"endTime":2987.28,"body":"that's my other question. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2987.28,"endTime":2990.49,"body":"Is that why like so then what is"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2987.28,"endTime":2990.49,"body":"the purpose if, if this is"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2990.49,"endTime":2993.67,"body":"almost kind of like a simulation"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2990.49,"endTime":2993.67,"body":"that we're in, and like, what is"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2993.67,"endTime":2996.31,"body":"the what is the purpose of being"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2993.67,"endTime":2996.31,"body":"here? What what are we doing"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2996.31,"endTime":2998.65,"body":"here? If we're not even seeing"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2996.31,"endTime":2998.65,"body":"the real reality that is this a"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2998.65,"endTime":3000.42,"body":"game that we're in or what is"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":2998.65,"endTime":3000.42,"body":"the point."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3001.41,"endTime":3003.27,"body":"Well, that would be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3001.41,"endTime":3003.27,"body":"like the deepest one of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3003.27,"endTime":3007.44,"body":"deepest questions we could ask."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3003.27,"endTime":3007.44,"body":"The answer is I don't know. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3007.44,"endTime":3012.36,"body":"But I have, I've only seen one"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3007.44,"endTime":3012.36,"body":"idea that is deep enough to at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3012.36,"endTime":3015.45,"body":"least be worth thinking about."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3012.36,"endTime":3015.45,"body":"I'm not saying it's right. I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3015.45,"endTime":3019.44,"body":"just saying that no idea that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3015.45,"endTime":3019.44,"body":"I've ever seen is, is really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3019.47,"endTime":3022.32,"body":"deep enough for me to take it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3019.47,"endTime":3022.32,"body":"seriously. But this one idea is,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3023.58,"endTime":3028.83,"body":"and it's from Kurt girdle, a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3023.58,"endTime":3028.83,"body":"mathematician, logician who,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3028.86,"endTime":3034.14,"body":"like in 1930 1931, he proved"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3028.86,"endTime":3034.14,"body":"that, that, effectively, there's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3034.14,"endTime":3039.9,"body":"no end to the exploration of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3034.14,"endTime":3039.9,"body":"mathematical structure. There's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3039.9,"endTime":3044.67,"body":"no end to it, no matter how so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3039.9,"endTime":3044.67,"body":"if you have your system of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3044.67,"endTime":3048.27,"body":"axioms for mathematics, he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3044.67,"endTime":3048.27,"body":"proved that that system of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3048.27,"endTime":3051.33,"body":"axioms, there will be things"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3048.27,"endTime":3051.33,"body":"that are true, but cannot be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3051.33,"endTime":3054.72,"body":"proven within that system. If"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3051.33,"endTime":3054.72,"body":"you add those new truths to your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3054.72,"endTime":3057.87,"body":"set of axioms, there'll be yet"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3054.72,"endTime":3057.87,"body":"new things that are true, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3057.87,"endTime":3061.53,"body":"can't be proven. So So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3057.87,"endTime":3061.53,"body":"mathematics has infinite job"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3061.53,"endTime":3064.65,"body":"security, no matter how far"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3061.53,"endTime":3064.65,"body":"you've gone, you've only"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3064.89,"endTime":3068.22,"body":"effectively scratched the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3064.89,"endTime":3068.22,"body":"surface of the possibilities of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3068.22,"endTime":3071.91,"body":"mathematics. Now, how's that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3068.22,"endTime":3071.91,"body":"related to your question about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3071.91,"endTime":3076.11,"body":"what is consciousness up to?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3071.91,"endTime":3076.11,"body":"Well, if consciousness is all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3076.11,"endTime":3079.98,"body":"there is, then the only thing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3076.11,"endTime":3079.98,"body":"that mathematical structure can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3079.98,"endTime":3083.19,"body":"be about is about the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3079.98,"endTime":3083.19,"body":"possibilities of consciousness."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3084.72,"endTime":3089.1,"body":"That's all there is for it to be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3084.72,"endTime":3089.1,"body":"about. So that means that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3089.1,"endTime":3092.82,"body":"there's endless possibilities"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3089.1,"endTime":3092.82,"body":"for the varieties of conscious"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3092.82,"endTime":3097.23,"body":"experience. Endless in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3092.82,"endTime":3097.23,"body":"principle, no one can be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3097.23,"endTime":3102.27,"body":"omniscient about it. So maybe"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3097.23,"endTime":3102.27,"body":"what consciousness is up to, is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3102.93,"endTime":3106.26,"body":"enjoying the exploration of all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3102.93,"endTime":3106.26,"body":"of its possibilities, and that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3106.29,"endTime":3111.93,"body":"that, that exploration is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3106.29,"endTime":3111.93,"body":"endless, literally endless. And,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3112.14,"endTime":3114.72,"body":"again, I'm not saying that this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3112.14,"endTime":3114.72,"body":"is right, but this is the kind"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3114.72,"endTime":3118.05,"body":"of thinking we're gonna have to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3114.72,"endTime":3118.05,"body":"do out of the box to answer"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3118.05,"endTime":3120.45,"body":"these kinds of questions. So I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3118.05,"endTime":3120.45,"body":"don't want anybody to take what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3120.45,"endTime":3125.19,"body":"I've just said, and use it to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3120.45,"endTime":3125.19,"body":"stop their creative thinking. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3125.19,"endTime":3129.42,"body":"would rather say this is just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3125.19,"endTime":3129.42,"body":"the first idea, let's think even"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3129.42,"endTime":3131.94,"body":"more wildly about what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3129.42,"endTime":3131.94,"body":"consciousness might be up to."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3132.15,"endTime":3134.97,"body":"But it's not going to be any"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3132.15,"endTime":3134.97,"body":"simpler or any less profound"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3134.97,"endTime":3137.46,"body":"than that. But hopefully, it'll"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3134.97,"endTime":3137.46,"body":"be we'll see something even more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3137.46,"endTime":3141.18,"body":"profound and deep than the idea"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3137.46,"endTime":3141.18,"body":"that I just put out there. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3141.18,"endTime":3145.98,"body":"consciousness may be up to the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3141.18,"endTime":3145.98,"body":"exploration of all of its"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3145.98,"endTime":3150.06,"body":"infinite and boundless"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3145.98,"endTime":3150.06,"body":"varieties. And what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3150.06,"endTime":3154.83,"body":"consciousness does is it tries"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3150.06,"endTime":3154.83,"body":"on different headsets, it tries"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3154.83,"endTime":3158.34,"body":"on a chuck shoot headset in a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3154.83,"endTime":3158.34,"body":"space time interface, it tries"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3158.34,"endTime":3163.23,"body":"on a Don Hoffman headset in a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3158.34,"endTime":3163.23,"body":"space time in your face, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3163.23,"endTime":3166.05,"body":"plays with that and learns what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3163.23,"endTime":3166.05,"body":"it can do and part of your neck"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3166.05,"endTime":3170.73,"body":"case, it also has itself do a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3166.05,"endTime":3170.73,"body":"little podcast between this Don"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3170.94,"endTime":3176.25,"body":"and his Chuck headset of guys"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3170.94,"endTime":3176.25,"body":"and, and learn something more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3176.25,"endTime":3179.01,"body":"about yourself in that process."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3176.25,"endTime":3179.01,"body":"So that would be a very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3179.01,"endTime":3180.96,"body":"different way of looking about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3179.01,"endTime":3180.96,"body":"everything that we're doing with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3180.96,"endTime":3185.91,"body":"people, it certainly sort of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3180.96,"endTime":3185.91,"body":"takes the fundamental notion of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3185.94,"endTime":3188.94,"body":"competition out of things is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3185.94,"endTime":3188.94,"body":"rather we're all part of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3188.94,"endTime":3193.17,"body":"consciousness exploring itself."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3188.94,"endTime":3193.17,"body":"And it's very interesting, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3193.17,"endTime":3196.59,"body":"consciousness would then be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3193.17,"endTime":3196.59,"body":"allowing itself to fight itself."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3196.59,"endTime":3199.65,"body":"What is it learning by that?"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3200.19,"endTime":3202.65,"body":"Right? So maybe"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3200.19,"endTime":3202.65,"body":"then it's to go out there and to"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3202.65,"endTime":3205.68,"body":"have as many conscious"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3202.65,"endTime":3205.68,"body":"experiences as you can to go out"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3205.68,"endTime":3210.12,"body":"and smell the flowers and take a"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3205.68,"endTime":3210.12,"body":"hike and go to a concert and"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3210.15,"endTime":3213.48,"body":"taste the chocolate and"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3210.15,"endTime":3213.48,"body":"everything. Try it all."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3214.17,"endTime":3216.12,"body":"Yeah, that's exactly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3214.17,"endTime":3216.12,"body":"right. And everything that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3216.12,"endTime":3219.33,"body":"people are doing, exploring"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3216.12,"endTime":3219.33,"body":"music, exploring creative"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3219.33,"endTime":3223.77,"body":"writing, writing novels,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3219.33,"endTime":3223.77,"body":"exploring with drugs, doing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3223.83,"endTime":3227.58,"body":"exploring science, all these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3223.83,"endTime":3227.58,"body":"things is just consciousness."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3229.59,"endTime":3232.08,"body":"Playing and why call girdles"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3229.59,"endTime":3232.08,"body":"candy store girdle is where he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3232.08,"endTime":3235.44,"body":"said there's this infinite"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3232.08,"endTime":3235.44,"body":"variety of possibilities mathema"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3235.47,"endTime":3238.29,"body":"so there's this infinite candy"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3235.47,"endTime":3238.29,"body":"store and there's and so what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3238.29,"endTime":3240.72,"body":"you don't want to do is get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3238.29,"endTime":3240.72,"body":"stuck on just one candy. If you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3240.72,"endTime":3243.45,"body":"get stuck on one candy, you're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3240.72,"endTime":3243.45,"body":"missing the rest of the store so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3243.48,"endTime":3246.06,"body":"so the idea Yeah, so maybe"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3243.48,"endTime":3246.06,"body":"that's what death is about. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3246.06,"endTime":3248.4,"body":"it needs to do the Don Hoffman"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3246.06,"endTime":3248.4,"body":"thing for a while but don't get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3248.4,"endTime":3250.44,"body":"stuck on it. Now we'll we'll get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3248.4,"endTime":3250.44,"body":"rid of the Don Hoffman thing and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3250.44,"endTime":3251.52,"body":"move on to something else."},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3252.63,"endTime":3255.36,"body":"Okay, wow, deep"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3252.63,"endTime":3255.36,"body":"stuff really fascinating."},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3255.84,"endTime":3259.11,"body":"Amazing. I got a lot to think"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3255.84,"endTime":3259.11,"body":"about now. Now, can people"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3259.11,"endTime":3260.73,"body":"donate to your research?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3262.26,"endTime":3266.34,"body":"Well, that would be be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3262.26,"endTime":3266.34,"body":"great. If they wanted to. There,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3266.37,"endTime":3270.54,"body":"you can give gifts to the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3266.37,"endTime":3270.54,"body":"University of California Irvine."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3270.6,"endTime":3270.93,"body":"So"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3271.2,"endTime":3273.3,"body":"yeah, I always end"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3271.2,"endTime":3273.3,"body":"each episode with a charity of"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3273.3,"endTime":3275.46,"body":"the of the guests. So I just"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3273.3,"endTime":3275.46,"body":"figured that would be the best"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3275.46,"endTime":3277.77,"body":"thing for you as people could"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3275.46,"endTime":3277.77,"body":"donate to the research. I think"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3277.77,"endTime":3278.49,"body":"that'd be amazing."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3278.999,"endTime":3282.359,"body":"Oh, that's that's a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3278.999,"endTime":3282.359,"body":"really good idea. So if you send"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3282.389,"endTime":3288.149,"body":"a check to the University of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3282.389,"endTime":3288.149,"body":"California, and say that it's to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3288.149,"endTime":3292.589,"body":"support the research of Donald"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3288.149,"endTime":3292.589,"body":"Hoffman, okay, then the money"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3292.589,"endTime":3296.789,"body":"would go to the university, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3292.589,"endTime":3296.789,"body":"it would then 100% of it would"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3296.789,"endTime":3300.329,"body":"go to fund this research. So I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3296.789,"endTime":3300.329,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3301.23,"endTime":3303.18,"body":"they can also buy"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3301.23,"endTime":3303.18,"body":"your book that helps you as"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3303.18,"endTime":3306.51,"body":"well. I'll put the link to that"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3303.18,"endTime":3306.51,"body":"in the notes. I listened to it"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3306.51,"endTime":3310.35,"body":"on Audible. So it's it's kind of"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3306.51,"endTime":3310.35,"body":"nice. If you don't like reading"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3310.35,"endTime":3313.14,"body":"books, you can listen to him,"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3310.35,"endTime":3313.14,"body":"but it's the same material."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3314.28,"endTime":3316.86,"body":"Yes, absolutely. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3314.28,"endTime":3316.86,"body":"So the case against reality goes"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3316.86,"endTime":3321.42,"body":"into all these ideas in in some"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3316.86,"endTime":3321.42,"body":"detail. It's more about the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3321.42,"endTime":3324.0,"body":"evolutionary thing that we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3321.42,"endTime":3324.0,"body":"talked about. It has a chapter"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3324.0,"endTime":3326.61,"body":"of consciousness at the end,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3324.0,"endTime":3326.61,"body":"when I plan hopefully to write a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3326.61,"endTime":3329.16,"body":"book on consciousness and go"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3326.61,"endTime":3329.16,"body":"into more detail later."},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3329.28,"endTime":3330.9,"body":"Okay, well, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3329.28,"endTime":3330.9,"body":"you'll have to come back when"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3330.9,"endTime":3334.17,"body":"you finish that one, we can talk"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3330.9,"endTime":3334.17,"body":"about it. And how could we you"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3334.17,"endTime":3336.99,"body":"have not done Joe Rogan yet?"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3334.17,"endTime":3336.99,"body":"Have you? You need to get on Joe"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3336.99,"endTime":3338.7,"body":"roll. That's like the one show"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3336.99,"endTime":3338.7,"body":"you haven't done."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3340.17,"endTime":3344.61,"body":"I haven't been invited"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3340.17,"endTime":3344.61,"body":"to be on Joe's show. I just had"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3344.61,"endTime":3348.99,"body":"the pleasure of talking with Lex"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3344.61,"endTime":3348.99,"body":"Friedman, on his podcast show"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3349.02,"endTime":3352.11,"body":"hustle days ago. So that'll"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3349.02,"endTime":3352.11,"body":"probably come out in a few"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3352.11,"endTime":3356.34,"body":"weeks. Okay. But you know, if I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3352.11,"endTime":3356.34,"body":"mean, I'd be happy to talk with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3356.34,"endTime":3358.23,"body":"Joe if he if he's, if he finds"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3356.34,"endTime":3358.23,"body":"it interesting. You"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3358.74,"endTime":3361.38,"body":"know, for sure."},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3358.74,"endTime":3361.38,"body":"It's a fascinating topic. You've"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3361.38,"endTime":3363.72,"body":"done some great work. And thank"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3361.38,"endTime":3363.72,"body":"you so much for taking the time"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3363.72,"endTime":3364.98,"body":"to come on my show. Appreciate"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3363.72,"endTime":3364.98,"body":"it."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3365.43,"endTime":3367.44,"body":"Excellent. Chuck is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3365.43,"endTime":3367.44,"body":"pleasure. Thanks for Buddy."},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3367.92,"endTime":3371.22,"body":"Fascinating stuff"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3367.92,"endTime":3371.22,"body":"from Dr. Donald Hoffman. I think"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3371.22,"endTime":3373.92,"body":"I have more questions and"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3371.22,"endTime":3373.92,"body":"answers now. But if you want to"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3373.92,"endTime":3376.77,"body":"learn more, check out Dr."},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3373.92,"endTime":3376.77,"body":"Hoffman's book The case against"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3376.77,"endTime":3380.04,"body":"reality. Or if you want a bit of"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3376.77,"endTime":3380.04,"body":"a different take, you can check"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3380.04,"endTime":3383.04,"body":"out my dad's book ultimate"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3380.04,"endTime":3383.04,"body":"reality. And check out the"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3383.04,"endTime":3387.57,"body":"episode I did with him. That's"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3383.04,"endTime":3387.57,"body":"number 115. And Dr. Hoffman is"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3387.57,"endTime":3391.08,"body":"on Twitter. I don't think he's"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3387.57,"endTime":3391.08,"body":"on the other social media. But"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3391.08,"endTime":3393.87,"body":"I'm on everything. So you can"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3391.08,"endTime":3393.87,"body":"follow me on there that helps us"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3393.87,"endTime":3397.89,"body":"support the show, as does your"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3393.87,"endTime":3397.89,"body":"likes, comments and shares. Make"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3397.89,"endTime":3400.59,"body":"sure to subscribe to the show on"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3397.89,"endTime":3400.59,"body":"YouTube or wherever you listen"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3400.59,"endTime":3403.53,"body":"to get updated on future"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3400.59,"endTime":3403.53,"body":"episodes. And if you really want"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3403.53,"endTime":3405.96,"body":"to go out and support the show,"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3403.53,"endTime":3405.96,"body":"I'd love for you to write me a"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3405.96,"endTime":3409.5,"body":"review on Apple podcasts or give"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3405.96,"endTime":3409.5,"body":"me a rating on Spotify or"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3409.5,"endTime":3413.22,"body":"wherever you listen. That kind"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3409.5,"endTime":3413.22,"body":"of stuff helps, helps it so more"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3413.22,"endTime":3417.09,"body":"people will find the podcast and"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3413.22,"endTime":3417.09,"body":"we only grow through you. We"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3417.09,"endTime":3419.52,"body":"don't have a big corporation"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3417.09,"endTime":3419.52,"body":"backing us up here. It's all"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3419.52,"endTime":3423.09,"body":"just grassroots. So I appreciate"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3419.52,"endTime":3423.09,"body":"any support you can give me it"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3423.09,"endTime":3426.3,"body":"helps out a lot. Thank you so"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3423.09,"endTime":3426.3,"body":"much for listening. Have a great"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3426.3,"endTime":3428.04,"body":"rest of your day and remember to"},{"speaker":"Chuck Shute","startTime":3426.3,"endTime":3428.04,"body":"shoot for the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3428.04,"endTime":3428.28,"body":"moon"}]}