How Does Auto Insurance Work With Gig Economy Drivers, with Dustin Walsey of Buckle

Dustin Walsey, co-founder and President of Buckle Insurance, joins us to talk about all things insurance.

If Buckle is in your state, you can sign up here. If they aren't in your state, you can still sign up and get notified of when they are available. During the interview I misspoke their URL as GetBuckle.com (instead of BuckleUp.com). Dustin said he thought that probably would get you there as well, and it turns out he's right.

If you are a gig economy driver (Doordash, Uber Eats, Grubhub, Instacart, Shipt, Uber, Lyft and many others) this is an incredibly important topic that you MUST pay attention to. A shockingly high number of gig economy drivers are uninsured when out working the apps, especially in the delivery industry.

Buckle Insurance is the first insurance company I'm aware of that was created specifically for the gig economy. They work closely with many of the gig platforms. As of the posting of this episode, they're only in a handful of states but they cover about 30% of the U.S. population.

We cover questions such as:

What is Buckle Insurance and how did they get started?
What are the challenges for a new insurance company trying to get approved to provide coverage in every state?
What kind of coverage does Buckle provide?
Why is delivery considered high risk to insurance if we aren't carrying passengers?
How the explosion of delivery during the pandemic impacts our society and the need to protect contractors who are out in the field
Looking at different types of insurance and how Buckle compares, such as personal policies, rideshare endorsements, commercial policies, and hybrid commercial policies.
When should a person consider full coverage instead of liability only, even if their car is paid off?
How do state insurance regulations and different kinds of risk impact insurance premiums?
What states are served now by Buckle?
What can someone do to make sure they're covered in states Buckle isn't yet serving?
How do credit ratings impact typical premiums and how is it different with Buckle?
What kind of relationship does Buckle have with different gig economy platforms?
What kind of coverage does Buckle provide if you're driving for a platform that Buckle does not have a relationship with?

Buckle is available at GetBuckle.com.  Some products on the website and podcast are ones I have an affiliate relationship with, and if so, I may receive compensation for products purchased.

Comments or questions? Shoot me an email.

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Transcript

0:00

Well, Hey everybody, have you got your taxes done? As I record this and upload this, or hopefully get it uploaded here today. It is April 13th and we all know tax day is April 15th. So we've got a little bit of a reprieve this year. Not as much as we've had in the last couple of years. It was June a couple of years ago, May last year. And we're back to April now, but we do get till the 18th because of falling on a weekend. And I believe it's related to Easter weekend, but. If you haven't got your taxes done yet, we've got all sorts of resources and information over at entrecourier.com and you can just click on tax guide, or if you scroll all the way to the bottom of the page, we've got all sorts of, categories of all the different articles and you can find the, categories for taxes there. And so hopefully. You know, what, what I've tried to do is instead of just giving you one or two, 10,000 foot view articles about, Hey, this is what taxes are and oh, by the way, remember to track your miles and all these different things, you know, you, can't just, you can't do it justice with one article and, you know, one, you can't cover everything, but two, what you do cover just isn't covered well enough. So. We've taken a different approach. Just trying to get into a lot of detail about all different aspects, about your taxes as an independent contractor, just to try and help people understand because you know, you might be looking for information on, well, what kind of miles can I claim on my taxes? And somebody else is looking for you know, um, what is this Schedule C thing, and how do I fill out the different fields for that and stuff. So we tried to do different articles to answer the different questions out there. So I hope you find what we've got available useful. Just head over to entrecourier.com and click on the tax guide or scroll to the bottom and look for the tax categories. And, and hopefully you can find what you're looking for there. So, anyway, we're not talking about taxes here this weekend on the podcast. And speaking of podcast, welcome back. Welcome to the deliver on your business podcast. And we're glad to have you back again. And if you're not familiar with Entrecourier or with deliver on your business. Here's what it is in a nutshell, this is what we're all about is that when you signed up with GrubHub, DoorDash, Uber eats Instacart, Uber, Lyft, any of those you signed, you agreed to language that says something along the lines of, I agree that I am providing a service as a business and not as an employee. And my friends, I honestly believe that in the gig economy, you know, a couple of things going on here. One, these companies are trying to weasel out by using independent contractors. I don't think there's any question about that. They want to get out of their responsibilities using a massive workforce, but they don't want to pay for a massive workforce. So they go the independent contractor route. But, I believe that your best opportunity to succeed and to do well in delivery, rideshare, anything in the gig economy is if you treat that as a business, if you really look at yourself as a business owner, and that's where the name comes from, deliver on your business. And that's what we're all about is helping you. You know, if, if there are things about business, maybe we can help you understand those things. And if we can just encourage you to take a business attitude, that's what we're hoping to do. So welcome, if this is your first time. Welcome back, if it's not, and we're going to get into our episode today here, I'm excited about we're talking about today cause we've got Dustin, make sure I pronounce his name here. Dustin Walsey. Who is the co-founder and he's the president of Buckle Insurance. Buckle insurance is an insurance company that was created just for gig economy, drivers for delivery, for ride share. And right now they're the only ones that I really know of that do this and, and folks, this is, I I've been hoping to get somebody from insurance on for a long time. Because it's one thing. If I try and give you warnings, if I try and tell you this is how it works, I think it, it helps you understand insurance a little bit better if you hear it from the mouth of somebody who is in that industry, you know, and I talk a lot on the website about how important it is that you get the right insurance, because the fact of the matter is there is a good chance right now that you are uninsured when you're making your deliveries. There's a real good chance of that. If you don't have the right type of insurance, most personal insurance policies, they've got language in there that says you're not covered while you're doing. You know, most of us think, well, yeah, it makes sense with ride share, but it's true with delivery too. And sometimes it's harder to get insurance for delivery than it is for ride share. And we talk about all sorts of things like this. Why is it this way? Why, why do the personal insurance companies not cover you? And what type of insurance do you need to get now? Obviously Dustin's going to tell you that you need to get buckle. Unfortunately, Buckle isn't in every state right now, as he talks to us, he says, they're there, they're in states right now where they cover about 30% of the U.S. Population. And so that basically means the biggest states. I'm in Colorado and they're not here yet But I am glad to have somebody on that can just talk about some of these different questions about how insurance works. And when we get done, I'll kind of wrap up with a few of my thoughts as well. And for now let's, uh, let's get Dustin on here.

Ron at EntreCourier: 5:42

Well, Hey everybody. I am really excited to have a Dustin with buckle or get BuckleUp.com buckle insurance on with us here. We want to talk about insurance today because insurance is it's. It's a big issue for a lot of delivery drivers and, and it's probably the biggest issue that most of you don't even realize is an issue out there. And so. I think one of the most important things you can do financially beyond just making money, doing your deliveries is to make sure that you are not at a tremendous risk when you're out doing deliveries, because here's one of the things that I think most people don't realize I'm. And Dustin, you might have a better idea of this, but I would hate to think what percentage of delivery drivers are uninsured while they're doing their deliveries, when it all comes down to it, because they don't realize maybe their personal policy doesn't cover them and that, you know, the delivery compaines don't really offer very much either if anything, at all. And, and that's why I was really excited to see, you know, started, uh, just seeing some things about buckle and kind of being up first in a couple of states and they're starting to grow and as they grow some more, I really love what they're doing. Um, because it's, it's an insurance company that really is built around the gig economy it's built for delivery, rideshare drivers, things like that. It's a, you know, they probably the first ones that I know of, maybe the only ones that I know of that have really stepped in to try and fill that gap. And so I was just really happy to be able to get that Dustin on. And Dustin, tell me, I guess, tell us a little bit about yourself and about how. How are you guys all got started with buckle and, you know, your role with the company and, uh, you know, what, what prompted you to get started with buckle?

Dustin Walsey: 7:36

Well, well, first of all, Ron, thank you very much for having me. Um, I think you'll find as we have this discussion today, there's a true passion, uh, for it and for what buckle does for what I do with the company and the the overall gig economy in general. So, excited to be on your program here. Um, really what buckle is though is it's a, you know, financial services platform and inclusive financial services platform for the gig economy. Where we're really initially focused on insurance. And, you, you asked a bunch of questions right there, but really what started, as a, a simple thesis in the early days as insurance for Uber drivers, because that was really the first gig economy company out there that revolutionized the way people move around. Fast forward to today, and, you know, delivery has become a massive piece of, the gig economy and it's just not food delivery, but it's packages, it's prescription drugs. It's, it's pretty much anything that needs to get to the house. So, what buckle is really focused on is how do we support these drivers who support the world? So, you know, as I said, buckle got started in the Uber Lyft world. And now today we work with, you know, all of, most of the delivery companies across the country. Um, you mentioned where at a bunch of states right now, as we continue to roll out across the country, but the idea is to help these drivers, acquire assurance, insurance that covers their vehicle, which is probably their most important asset they own, because not only is it worth something, but it helps them generate revenue and protect them so that they have the peace of mind that they can operate and, really, drive how they want when they want, where they want, whether it's for work, whether it's on a gig economy, whether it's running an air and taking a kid to school on a family vacation and really simplifying the process of the, of the insurance policy.

Ron at EntreCourier: 9:31

Wonderful. Wonderful. Yeah. And I'm glad you guys are there. Uh, just, uh, you know, I, I wish you guys could hurry up and get into all the states, but you're working on that. I know that, but

Dustin Walsey: 9:39

Yeah, we cover, I think we covered like roughly about 30% of the population of the U S population right now. Um, you know what I tell people all the time, a challenge with insurance is it's regulated at the state. Not at the federal level. So every state is pretty much like operating into its own country so there's different rules, there's different, rating factors. There's all. All different things that have to go into operate every state. And that's just, that's why it's a slower process versus just being in all 50 states at once, which trust me as much as you want to be in all 50 states so do I.

Ron at EntreCourier: 10:11

I'm sure you yeah. Yeah. And there's a lot of hoops I'm sure to, to jump through as part of that, just, and, and, and every hoop is different. So.

Dustin Walsey: 10:21

And every state operates completely differently, both. Uh, as I said, rates, rules, forums, politically, the way people are elected or appointed and, and the whole process is it's a real challenge. Um, and. It's a lot of energy to roll into new states.

Ron at EntreCourier: 10:37

Does that, why, like you mentioned being in 30% of the population, does that kind of enter into, I guess, um, your strategy for how you choose which states to go after next is just trying to cover as much of the population as possible. I would imagine California is going to be ahead of Nebraska as far as priority for some.

Dustin Walsey: 10:55

Yeah. I mean, so yes, it's absolutely where the people are, is where there's more deliveries being made. So that makes sense. Um, some of the states are more difficult to get in from a regulatory standpoint, so they take longer. So California is a longer process, for example, than say Texas. So that is all taken into account, but there's no doubt about it, where the people are, is where the demand.

Ron at EntreCourier: 11:18

Where you want to be, sure. Let's talk a little bit about that insurance cuz I've made the comment and I've, I've been beating this drum for three years since I started the website that guys, you got to pay attention to your insurance. Because, most personal policies have exclusions in there that say, we're not going to cover you if you're on a delivery or for commercial purposes. And, I don't think most people realize, I think they think we're not doing rideshare. We don't have people in the car. So why would we need to do something different with insurance? So talk to us a little bit about that whole issue and what kind of, what, what kind of things do people need to look for in their insurance?

Dustin Walsey: 11:57

Ron you're a hundred percent, right. Um, there is a lot of exclusions for personal auto policies when drivers are doing commercial activities. Uh, so first of all, very specifically, I would encourage everybody to read the fine print of an insurance policy, which by the way, is an awful experience. It's thick. It's, it's confusing, but. Pretty basically, uh, personal policies do not cover delivery. They don't cover rideshare either. Um, if you were to talk to your insurance agent and be forthright from that with them, they would probably explain that. Uh, there are situations depending on who you deliver for, for, the delivery network company may extend some liability coverage. They may not, and you've got to look within each one of those companies, what they are willing to offer, not, but the vast majority, if not all of them do not protect the driver's car, they're really protecting the liability. If the delivery driver was to run into something. Eh, it caused damage fatalities. Those things. Those tend to get covered more frequently than not, but it is a very confusing process. And what buckles really trying to solve is, Hey, how do you protect the driver with the driver's best interest in mind? How do you protect the whole entire ecosystem? Who we're all dependent on all these goods and services being delivered to us, and then the broader public and do this in a manner that a is easy to understand. And B is affordable, because a true, you know, commercial policy is expensive, but most drivers do not do this full-time they tend to be part-time jobs in, uh, in, in most of the United States. So how do we support this in a way that makes it easy and affordable for them to do.

Ron at EntreCourier: 13:44

Sure. So if you're not covered on your personal policy and let's talk about some of the different companies or something like that, and you can kind of let us know if, if you feel comfortable talking about any of them, as far as. What kind of quality coverage they do provide, if any?

Dustin Walsey: 14:02

Yeah. Well, I would, I would tell everybody to go directly to the companies and I don't want to give that advice. Things change quite frequently as well. They need to go read. I mean, just, you know, you go to any of the delivery network, company sites, you know, search for insurance, they'll say what they provide, what they don't provide. Um, but it is, it is very different across every single company.

Ron at EntreCourier: 14:27

Yeah, it is an and I, and that is something that you. I mean, um, guys, you got to take a look at all this stuff. You've got to first take a look at your personal policy. You know, I've when I did the few policies I've looked at, usually the first place I go to look is in the exclusions, which is usually at the back. Although like one insurance company I had, they had exclusions over every single type of policy. So, you know, you got to do searching yet. Look for things like commercial references to. Commercial insurer or commercial driving commercial use livery is, is a very common term that I've seen, um, which is transporting people or goods for services. So the fact that you're not carrying peopledoesn't mean anything.

Dustin Walsey: 15:12

You're still doesn't mean you're, you're correct. Right. And I will tell you most, if not all personal auto policies exclude this type of driving, some of the, larger, personal auto carriers will allow for an endorsement for food delivery that might lower the deductible and might do some additional things, but it is not a complete policy. And where Buckle stands alone is we are out there to cover the driver no matter who they're driving with, how they're driving, in, in a way that it works for them, for them.

Ron at EntreCourier: 15:40

Yeah. Why, why is it that, you know, if you're not carrying people, if all you got is just food sitting on your side, why is it that these insurance companies don't provide coverage?

Dustin Walsey: 15:51

Well, most people would agree and the industry would tell you the longer a car is on the road, the higher likelihood for an accident to happen. Right. Um, like anything else. So obviously when someone's using their vehicle to deliver. Food, the car is on the road more than if I was just driving, you know, running an errand, going out to dinner, doing my own thing. So there there's that component of it all, but a, uh, the financial services industry and the delivery industry is when that car is being used in a commercial fashion. Uh, the, the, the financial insurance infrastructure just isn't there to support it. And that's where buckle has built our gigpolicy. And it really takes the best of personal auto and the best of commercial auto smartly combines them together to allow the driver to do what they want to do. So that's, that's really where this has come from and, um, and it it's just an solution to an industry that's absolutely exploding over the next. Five years, it's going to be a huge part of our gross domestic product. I mean, the amount of goods and services that are delivered to my house and to everybody's houses is, is unbelievable. Um, and, and again, only growing.

Ron at EntreCourier: 17:06

Yeah. And I think it's going to continue because right now, you know, it's, I mean, it started off mostly, you know, food restaurant delivery and, and that blew up during the pandemic. It was already getting pretty big, um, But now everybody's trying to get into groceries or trying to get into other products. And, you know, you've got a lot of, uh, regional companies starting to just pop up everywhere that are, you know, all sorts of different niches. And, and, uh, even if food delivery levels out, you know, which is where a lot of, you know, my listeners are from, there's a lot of other things that are just going to grow up like crazy. And it all kind of fits under that same definition, as far as your you're doing livery work, you're doing commercial work.

Dustin Walsey: 17:51

Oh yeah. And the grocery business is going to be explosive, explosive growth over the next few years. Um, you know, if it's call it 5% of all their revenue right now is delivered, or maybe less than that, you know, I've got to think over the next five years, it's going to be 20, 30, 40%. And these, uh, companies are gonna need drivers that deliver this to our houses. Um, and it's only gonna be. Expand, not just to groceries, but all to home goods, all our, you know, from toothpaste to toilet paper, uh, I mean from products that are sold at Walmart and home Depot and best buy, they're all going to be delivered to our house. And it's, it's, it's amazing to watch this happen. And it's exciting to be in the middle of it all in the, you know, which is the forefront of, you know, this, this growing workforce. That's going to be a, uh, a dominant player in, uh, in our country for years.

Ron at EntreCourier: 18:45

Yeah, it really is. It's, uh, you know, in all of this discussion going on totally a different rabbit hole we could dive down about, um, you know, should you be employees should be contractors. Are you running a business? Are you not running a business or something like that, but it's just the way that this has all blown up though. The independent contractor model actually works real well when you start to look at it as, okay, I can do this delivery for Curri. I can do this delivery for Doordash, and then I can run out and do a catering order for DeliverThat or something like that. So, yeah.

Dustin Walsey: 19:17

Or I can take the day off and I don't have to work today. And then I can go to it's the democratization of work right now. And it's an incredible phenomenon. That's happening. Oh.

Ron at EntreCourier: 19:27

And I think it was a lifesaver that we had this during the pandemic, because how many people got laid off or, you know, are just not able to do much else. But they could go jump in their car and do, you know, a few deliveries or a lot of deliveries.

Dustin Walsey: 19:44

Ron, this is interesting. And if you've heard me in the past, you know, my partner who I started this with Marty Young he's, you know, ex military west point, you know, very, very focused on the veterans and all those things. But what, what the takeaway I've seen of what the gig economy and the delivery driver is, they were the soldiers on our war against COVID and the pandemic. And when everybody was at home, these people were out really working hard, delivering. Our goods and services, keeping our country going. And, you know, there's a, there's a place in our heart as a, as buckle for these, these people. Um, and you'll see us refer to them as members because, uh, they, they just did so much for us. And yeah. Listen the pandemic made the gig economy what it is today and it just turbocharged its adoption into the world. Whereas my parents would have never used door dash or Instacart five years ago now are regular users of it and use it. And that changed the way we changed our habits and our buying patterns and stuff. So it's, it's fascinating.

Ron at EntreCourier: 20:47

Yeah. I hate to think if this had happened 10 years ago, where we would be, because. You know, the voice over IP technology, the, you know, the, this, this whole zoom type thing that you can do. Uh, all of that stuff was not anywhere near as well-developed and, and, and being able to work from home, being able to have that infrastructure in place that could. You know, some of it in place and some of it able to grow up around it to be able to handle all those things related to everybody being at home is just huge.

Dustin Walsey: 21:19

But also the company's help spinning up, spin up these restaurants that never in a million years have been able to handle this type of delivery and the logistics and getting the drivers and putting all those pieces together. It's it's it's it's. It really is.

Ron at EntreCourier: 21:33

It has been an interesting time to be alive. And especially being in this industry, when that all happened, I want to talk a little bit more just about coverage and things like that, because I think it's really important people to understand some things like that. So I'm thinking of, let's say maybe there's a delivery company that they say they offer liability insurance, and what's the difference between something like that and having a commercial policy.

Dustin Walsey: 22:03

Okay, great question. And I caveat again, you've got to read the fine print of the delivery company. So first let me answer it from a buckle perspective, then I'll answer it if you don't have buckle. So w what buckle does is we work with the driver. They tell us the delivery company they're working for, and then we provide coverage. No matter how they're driving, whether again, whether they're doing a delivery, if they're doing something on their personal time, we cover. They're waiting for the delivery to be dispatched to them, whether they're picking up the food or package all to the delivery, to the housework office, wherever it's going to be. And that is all covered. It's covered in a very simple to understand that.$500 deductible. Do you want physical damage coverage? Do you? They all comes with liability coverage. Do you want uninsured motorist all the, the, the traditional coverages that you could get on a personal policy? We capture that in our commercial. And that policy becomes the primary policy that the driver uses. So if there's any accident, if there's any questions, if there's anything whatsoever, you pick up the phone, you call buckle. Our claims team gets involved and we adjudicate these claims as fast as possible. Get these drivers back on the road. So they're start earning their money. Again, these drivers, their car goes down, their cars go down, they lose income. So time truly is money to these people. Take the flip side with a, just a random personal auto policy. Um, and an accident occurs. You are at the whim of a, your personal auto and how they handle it. And then B, if they deny the claim, which most of them will, then you have to go to the delivery company and deal with. And, uh, quite commonly, they will not cover your car whatsoever. So, you know, a bumper or a fender bender, you know, a total loss that it will turn out to be on the driver. A lot of times they cover some form of liability. Sometimes they don't. And it's just a case by case, by case, by case. I do believe over time, it will normalize. And, um, you know, this will, there'll be, you know, buckle and other companies will evolve and be able to step in front and help these drivers more and more. But today, uh, we really are the only player out there that does this. Yeah. Yeah. And again, and I, and I say this, it's it. Uh, it's a little, you know, it costs a little more for a buckle policy. Put your asset your car, your revenue source is protected. And I mean, you lose a car and it's a total loss. I mean, that's expensive and there's no coverage. I mean, it's, it's not good for anybody in the end of the day.

Ron at EntreCourier: 24:45

Well, and so like, here's kind of the difference too, is let's say you're, you just dropped off an order and you're driving to get back to a hot spot. You're getting back to a place where there's a lot more restaurants, so you can get better orders. Uh, but you still got the app turned on and you'd plow into somebody. Maybe you're looking at your phone and, and, uh, you know, trying to see what's up with an app and you don't notice this car over here, you plow into them. It's completely your fault. And now there's this guessing game between, you know, one, what stage of delivery are you in? Is, is Doordash or grub hub or somebody is, does their, does their liability cover you at that time or not? Because you didn't have food in the car or you weren't on the way to a delivery. Um, if you're on Uber eats, there's a little more coverage, you know, to my understanding. But even then there are a lot of gaps. And so there's, there's this guessing game involved. And then there's all the questions about your own insurance But I think one of the things that I've noticed and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but I've, you know, there's a couple of companies that they say, well, we've got, you know, a million dollars of liability coverage or something like that, but it seems like that's different than having an actual commercial auto or auto policy in your name, because basically it's in the name of that company. Yeah, you're not personally.

Dustin Walsey: 26:12

You hit the nail right on the head is the named insured with buckle would be the driver. Uh, the named insured with the delivery companies is the delivery company. Uh, so that is, that is the difference. So, you know, we're there for the driver and recovered their vehicle. Yeah.

Ron at EntreCourier: 26:33

And here's, here's where, I mean, here's where I think it makes a huge difference if you're going to rely on. XYZ delivery companies liability. You know, you, you know that they don't have any coverage for your car, or I hope, you know, you should know that, but even if you created the damage and now all of a sudden, you know, there's a hundred thousand dollars that has to be paid somewhere. And if your insurance doesn't cover you, they're coming after you then. So if, if you've got. And Buckle says, we're not going to cover you. There's still some recourse, you know, there's state insurance commission, there's all sorts of things where you can appeal that down the line If you're relying on, you know, XYZ deliveries companies and they just say, yeah, we don't think you're covered here or something like that because you're not a named insured. You've got a lot less recourse to.

Dustin Walsey: 27:29

Yeah, I believe that's a fair statement, but, uh, you know, again, ours is designed for the driver, not for the, you know, cause that's the driver in mind and everything on their vehicle, uh, and the damage they. Yeah. And again, we, and I think this actually another important stick distinction. So we actually work with all the states and the state department of insurance to get approved, to do business within their state. Very specifically for delivery for livery, you know, people products, good services. And the states admit us into their, uh, into, as an admitted carrier. So they stand behind us as well. So it's just a it's, it's that buffer, it's that protection. It's that peace of mind that we get to bring to the driver that makes this, that makes our product work. And it makes us special in my opinion,

Ron at EntreCourier: 28:17

I think so, too. Um, you know, and here's the thing I think with delivery guys that. I think a lot of times people get this idea. Well, there's not as much risk because you're not hauling people. I think there's a lot of ways where there's actually more risk. We're stopping more often. We are getting out of the car more often, you know, and, and, and think about it. If you're pulling over to pick up a passenger, they're getting in, usually off the street side, if you're jumping out of your car to take food up the door, all of a sudden you're swinging your door out into traffic, you know, you're stopping, you're pulling in, you're pulling out. And a lot of these companies are putting so much pressure on drivers, too. I have the food delivered within a certain timeframe, or they might get a contract violation and, you know, time, um, you know, and, and it's just all of that stuff that I think there, there may be more risks with delivery than just doing rideshare.

Dustin Walsey: 29:11

Maybe not bored. How about differences? Different, maybe different is, is right, but I I'm sure there's plenty of doors that get hit off as they open the door and the car drives by and smashes into it. It's not funny, but you know, it's, but it's, it's real. It's real, you know, Food and package is a little different than people because there tends to be a tighter radius around restaurants. For example, I'm not having food, that's delivered an hour away versus, you know, an Uber or Lyft who picks you up at the airport and might drive you 60 miles and then have to come back with the door dash offers. I see. Really, sometimes it's crazy, but I think you're right. I live in, I live in Atlanta. I tend to order with, you know, within a two or three mile radius. Okay, but, but you know, it's groceries, but groceries and, you know, you got companies like goPuff that deliver in tighter radiuses and you know, you've got, uh, you know, the, the grocery store companies. They're not delivering across the town. They tend to have it all dialed up and tightened up really well. So it's just a different risk profile, but it's a different driver. They might spend more time in higher conduct congested areas versus rural. It is so different. And it's one of the challenges that we face at buckle is because all the drivers are all different. The delivery companies operate differently. Some work on shifts, some work on, on a per fare basis or a per trip basis. Some have broad, you know, like I only deliver. Three to seven or 10 miles from a central point at some might go, as far as the eye can see, you know, so it's all different. And, and the challenge is this industry is evolving so rapidly is how do we stay nimble? And up-to-date with the latest and greatest, because there's probably 50 companies that I've never heard of that are getting ready to start that are coming into this space that are delivering all types of things and that are rapidly growing and the various. Okay.

Ron at EntreCourier: 31:01

When you think about it, I think all of that, and it's just this, especially nowadays there's, there's, uh, you know, inflation just going crazy. And of course, gas right now, gas is just shooting up and. Kind of when there's all those pressures on a driver, you know, like you mentioned, you, you, you said this a little bit ago that you might not be, you might have to pay a little bit more to get a buckle policy than what you got to pay for your home policy. Um, how does the driver kind of reconcile that, that it's like, everything else is costing more? Why should I pay more somewhere else now? Because it's getting harder and harder because of the increasing price.

Dustin Walsey: 31:45

Well, you mentioned inflation. Interestingly, the phenomenon that's going on in our lifetime right now is actually used. Car prices are actually going up. Cars are appreciating. So, uh, Hey, if your car is getting more valuable, there's more reason to protect it, right? There's greater equity in the vehicle for every single driver. So to protect that asset without a doubt, um, the, the other thing is when something bad happens to fix that car is more expensive. So if you don't have the proper coverage and you have to come out of pocket to fix your own car, that is even a, a larger burden. Uh, so you know, you take those two factors. It's in our view, really worth the peace of mind and the additional coverage to make sure that that asset a is protected correctly. It's fixed fast. It's repaired it's on the road and it's done in a way that is safe and. And works for everybody, but, uh, it's it's I get it. And it's, it's a hard time. And, you know, I see you see delivery companies are starting to add some fuel surcharges and hopefully that could continue to do so. Uh, cause I mean, gas is a variable cost is a, is a real cost to these drivers. Um, we tell drivers as well, when we talk about. I know we talked to, you know, that we live in an independent contractor world, you know, depreciation expenses or things that they need to look into as well with inflation and how that all plays out. So, you know, as, as you look into this world, that's getting more expensive for these drivers to operate protecting though what's so important to them, I think is the most.

Ron at EntreCourier: 33:17

Oh, I think so. And in fact, I think that as the prices are, as, as, as some of these price pressures become even harder, I think it makes it more important that you make sure you got yourself covered. I saw him, you know, there, you may have seen this meme kind of popping up in a few places now where, um, it said something like, uh, okay, so you can't afford the gas or you're going to go out and pay$50,000 on an electric vehicle, you know? And the idea that behind, and it's something that I've been saying. I said, it's like, okay, if you're already thinking of buying a car, that's something to consider, but to respond to a dollar a gallon increase in gas by buying a new car and spending thousands upon thousands of dollars may not always be the best choice, but, you know, and, and the whole point that I bring that up for is that it's like, guys, if you have trouble making it on what amounts to about a 20, 20 cent per delivery increases, what the average is, kind of come out to, if you have trouble making it on, how are you going to afford something happening to your car? If you don't have the right kind of coverage? You know, I think that it's like, you got to kind of think of it in terms of, you know, if it's maybe 30 or 50 or a hundred dollars more per month for that insurance. If you break that down over the year and over all the deliveries that you do, especially if you're doing this like full time, it doesn't really make that much of a difference. But what happens if you're not properly covered? It could be devastating.

Dustin Walsey: 34:55

Catastrophic. Yeah. I mean, a total loss is, uh, is something that can haunt you forever. There's a reason insurance existed to cover our vehicles and, um, you know, for people to lose their source of income because the car wasn't covered properly is, uh, it, it hurts. It hurts, it hurts the driver, it hurts the whole ecosystem. So, you know, hopefully over time, um, you know, gas prices will go down. Uh, car prices will stabilize and, um, you know, insurance rates will not be as expensive and it, it. It covers these drivers in a way that they truly can afford everything and that they continue to support the world and deliver the goods and services that we all love to have that show up at our house every time. Sure, sure. Every day. Um,

Ron at EntreCourier: 35:49

let's talk about different types of insurance because, um, I've got a 10 year old SUV. Okay. It's fully paid for and, um, When would, I want to consider getting just a liability policy and when would I want to consider getting the full coverage, which I hear a lot of people say it doesn't make sense to get full coverage on that old of a car or something like that. How does decision that,

Dustin Walsey: 36:21

I mean, that truly is a cost, you know, analysis or across, straight off benefit that needs to be made. So, you know, determining what that car is worth, whether it paid off, I mean, is it worth$7,000? Is it worth$17,000? You know, you look at. And then you balance that against the cost of the full coverage or the physical damage is the term to use to, to ensure that car and the, and the monthly or annual cost associated that and to, to make an assessment to see is it worth it? Um, you know, I don't know what that number is. I think it's different for everybody, but, uh, um, you know, my guess is that ten-year-old, car's worth more than you realize right now. Um, if, uh, Uh, with inflation with the chip shortages, with supply chain issues, all of these things, those cars are becoming more and more valuable and protecting them is, is real. So, uh, and, and on top of it today, accidents are taking longer to get these cars fixed. So if a body shop used to be able to turn a car in a week, now it's taking two, three weeks, we're taking five and that is all time that's cost money. And, uh, so it's, it's assessing that and it's assessing. The best way to, uh, uh, to, to value that is I think an individual decision for everybody, but, uh, um, it's, that's a, that's a hard one and it just comes down to what the, the value of the car is to replace.

Ron at EntreCourier: 37:45

And I think ultimately it kind of comes down to a question that you just got to ask yourself if, if something happened to your car, What, you know, what position are you in? Uh, and especially if you using your car to run your business, you're, you're making your living off of that. Um, what does that do to you? And if you don't have the cash to pay for that repair, or you don't have a backup car, what does that do to you financially? It's even more than that, because now you can't make. Because of that. And so I think that's something that you just have to ask yourself, how well are you able to cover whatever it costs to get it fixed so that you can back on the road. Um, and, and if, if, if that's going to be hard, if not impossible, and now all of a sudden you can't make any money. Maybe it makes sense to get more of a full coverage or something.

Dustin Walsey: 38:42

Yes. And, um, you know, also in that evaluation process, looking at the various deductible amounts, right. So, uh, Um, you know, 500, a thousand dollar deductible that all plays into the rates and the cost of insurance. Uh, I do know, you know, Uber and Lyft have more strict, uh, car requirements than the delivery companies, just because passengers versus food or are a little different. So some of that might be in the evaluation process. So if your car is getting ready to age out, even though it's paid in full and you might not be able to use it for, you know, deliver. That might be a deciding factor. So there's a lot of things that go into it and, uh, it, it takes some time and, uh, and, and laying out the pros and cons.

Ron at EntreCourier: 39:25

Sure, sure. You know, and actually even I had a. 98 Buick and, uh, at one point it even aged out on Uber eats because they've got an element of coverage since they're under Uber, you know, and because they're providing a certain amount of coverage on that, you know, they've got I probably every right to have requirements on the car, I would think. Um, but so let's talk about if somebody gets into an accident, um, And you're not sure about your insurance. Um, there's a lot of advice in Facebook groups and on Reddit that says, oh, just don't tell them that you were doing food delivery. Talk to me about that, whether that's a good idea how that works.

Dustin Walsey: 40:17

Um, I've been so honesty in my world is I was always taught is the best practice. Um, when, you know, people drive without the proper coverage, you know, maybe there, there is inherent risk. Um, do I believe that very commonly, that drivers are driving on a personal auto policy, an accident occurs and they. They aren't truthful about what they're doing. Does that occur? Absolutely. Yes. I think what we're starting to see though is the personal auto carriers and the companies are starting to wise up to it. They're starting to understand what's going on and figuring out different ways to investigate really what's happening, um, in their claims handling process to really understand what the driver was doing. Um, so I think, I think, uh, as time moves on, uh, The personal auto carriers are going to get smarter and smarter. Um, so I think that that's one piece. Um, and, and again, it's, it's like everything, if you. Want to roll the dice. Sometimes you can win. Sometimes you can lose and the losses, the losses are severe. I will tell you for the greater good of society, if you'll put on that hat, if you don't tell the truth to your insurance provider, everybody pays for it. Eventually all of our costs of insurance, right? Someone is going to pay out at some point, if there is. Uh, someone not being truthful to their insurance carrier. So it goes into all of our insurance rates over time. So eventually the ecosystem, I believe we'll work it out self out. I think there's legislation that a lot of the departments of insurance are starting to evaluate for delivery. Uh, coming in the years ahead that will help regulate this better. Very similar to the way Uber and Lyft have been regulated. And a very specific around insurance. Um, but, uh, but again, I mean, I'd be naive to tell you if it just, it, that does not happen. The beauty about buckle is you get to tell you don't have to worry about it. Don't have to worry about it.

Ron at EntreCourier: 42:26

And I think there's probably a difference too, between maybe not volunteering information and actively lying, but, you know, here's, I guess kind of the question, cause I, I see people say this all the time and they say, well, how are they going to know how an insurance company going to figure out that I'm delivering.

Dustin Walsey: 42:46

You know, the, the, the carriers are they're getting smarter, right? So you might have telematics in your car that they're able to look at that finds unique patterns. Um, police reports are typically required and maybe something was disclosed to the police officer or disclosed by someone that they hit. That says, Hey, they were pulling out of a restaurant or they were doing something else that gets, you know, flagged in the police report. So there's all of these little triggers that are starting to occur as the world. And as the industry gets smarter because you know, all this delivery is becoming so mainstream. So the, the world learns and, um, and it's just all slowly catching.

Ron at EntreCourier: 43:27

Do you know, if these insurance companies can subpoena the, uh, delivery companies to find out if, whether or not they were on the, on the clock or logged in or anything like that, or did the company's cooperator?

Dustin Walsey: 43:40

I do not know. I think it's different probably for every single company.

Ron at EntreCourier: 43:45

All right. I, you know, and my personal feeling is. And I'm definitely not a shill for insurance companies. I think most of them, uh, in fact, that one of the reasons I think I've kind of gotten this bandwagon is because most of these insurance companies, if there is a reason for them to get out of paying a claim, they're going to find that reason, you know? And so, and sometimes I think. You know, I, I understand it on one side. Uh, but I also understand that, you know, sometimes it's going to be like, you know, they want to have the money coming in and not have to pay the money out if they can avoid it. And if we're giving them a built-in excuse, you know, it just doesn't make a lot of sense. So I think that's why I always kind of advise people, at least it's, it's not, because I think you ought to be paying more for insurance. I think it's because. You got to protect yourself.

Dustin Walsey: 44:42

Just remember though. I think, uh, the, what I, the way I always think about it is insurance companies are in the business of, you know, paying out losses and taking risk and they just want to be paid for the risk that they're taking. Right. And if that is remembered, they tend to operate in a really good fashion. Again, they're all very it's a very, very regulated industry. By the various, you know, states at the government, you know, at the state level. So I think there's really good controls in place. They just, they want it. They just want to get the premium paid for the risk that they.

Ron at EntreCourier: 45:14

Yeah, I guess I got to remember, I'm talking to somebody from an insurance company. Yeah. But

Dustin Walsey: 45:18

I mean, but you know, like you take a taxi, like a taxi is moving people around. It needs to be more expensive than when I'm not a taxi. Right. And there's all those pieces and the cars on the road, you know, a normal, personal auto policy. If I drive out, I don't know, I'm on the road two hours a day, but you know, a delivery driver could be on seven and they want to be, the insurance company wants to be paid for that additional risk because. Again, the longer that cars on the road, the higher likelihood of an accident occurring. So, you know, they, they want to just make sure that that's covered correctly.

Ron at EntreCourier: 45:49

Well, and by law, I think, and you can explain this a little better, but I think by law you have to charge enough to be able to keep, you know, one to keep solvent, but two to make sure that you're able to cover those losses.

Dustin Walsey: 46:05

Well, that's right. And that's where the regulation comes into place. So I mentioned a few minutes ago that, you know, we use an admitted framework, which means that the state looks at our rates, our rules or forms. They approve everything we charge to, uh, to the, our, our members of the drivers to the general public. Um, and they test our financial viability constantly because if God forbid something happens. To the financial solvency of an insurance carrier, the state will step in and pay those claims on the behalf of the carrier if the insolvency occurs. So it's in it's in every state's best interest to really have a fair, uh, relationship with the carriers, the insured, the people, the taxpayers, and all the likes. So it's, um, that's, that's where the regulation is really. Um, it makes it very difficult to, to, to work, uh, because you're, you're dealing with regulated, you know, government entities that make sure that we're doing everything by the book. We just, we just can't just change rates at a whim. There has to be justification. That's submitted to all the states that then approve those rate changes, uh, based on losses, based on changing economic conditions, changing, you know, factors. So it's very, very tightly, right.

Ron at EntreCourier: 47:22

Okay. And that's good to know. I mean, that's, you know, I think that's what a lot of people don't understand is, like you said, you can't just do it on the whim. It's not just because, oh, I want to get money it's because all of those things with that, I didn't know.

Dustin Walsey: 47:35

It's the same reason why we're not in all 50 states because they're all the states are evaluating what we're doing, how we're doing our business practices. I mean, Uh, everything before they even let us operate within the state. So it's, it's really, it's, it's really unique in that sense of how the insurance companies operate with it. In the end of the day, with a partnership with the, you know, the state legislatures.

Ron at EntreCourier: 48:01

Mmm hmm. Since you mentioned that, let's talk about that a little bit. You said, you know, we're not in all 50 states, you're in about 30% of the population coverage. Um, what. Where are you right now? Um, do you kind of have a list of some of the states that you're in or?

Dustin Walsey: 48:20

Yeah, I mean, I'm gonna come off memory, so it could be a little off here or there because it's not, it's not, it's a little bit of a hodgepodge as you bounce around. It's not a continuous like footprint. Uh, so let's see Georgia, Tennessee, Illinois, the DC area, Pennsylvania. Texas, I believe in the next week or two we're Florida. Um, are, are, the states right now, and then rolling further from there.

Ron at EntreCourier: 48:45

Okay. Now, when you say DC area, is that just in DC itself or does that cover like Northern Virginia?

Dustin Walsey: 48:52

Yeah, it's that, it's the, uh, you know, the tri, even though it's two states, the Tri-City area, so, um, uh, but you know, and, uh, and rapidly growing.

Ron at EntreCourier: 49:03

Yeah. So with that in mind, cause you're not, you know, like you're not in Colorado here yet. What does somebody do when they're not there? What are the best options for somebody who doesn't have you guys in, in their state yet?

Dustin Walsey: 49:23

Yeah, that is actually an awesome question. So first of all, you should sign up for notifications. So we can then tell you when we come to your state would be the easy, the Buckle hat answer. But, um, I would call my insurance companies, especially in the delivery play in the delivery space. Let the carrier know that you're doing delivery and buy what they call the rideshare endorsement that extends some coverage. Um, and the, I say it's a rideshare endorsement, I guess it'd be also a delivery endorsement as well that, you know, many carriers like progressive Allstate state farm, they do operate offer. And, uh, I would head down that route. I would talk to my insurance agent and see if there's other options within the state. Um, you know, they always come by a commercial policy to do, to do this, but I think. It's probably a little cost prohibitive. Um, but we'll get to every state in the country at some point and, uh, including Hawaii, where I looked forward to, to launching that one, personally, the weather weather's nice.

Ron at EntreCourier: 50:21

Yeah. Talk to me a little bit about this and, and, and I know it's kind of getting outside of what you guys do, but there are some rideshare endorsement. Don't cover delivery. Aren't there. Um, how does, how does that work? Do you know?

Dustin Walsey: 50:35

Again, I'm not, I'm not sure on every company and again, that's where I would call an insurance agent or the company directly to get those answers. You know, an insurance agent is an incredible, uh, asset that represents, you know, you, the, the, the consumer that truly has the answers to your questions and they would, uh, be able to, to really help you out in that situation.

Ron at EntreCourier: 50:59

Sure. Sure. Um, let's talk about, I guess, buckle compared to maybe a couple of different types of insurance, like you said, commercial, um, you know, there's, there's like a couple of levels of commercial where there's what you expect kind of the really expensive stuff out there. Uh, there are a couple of major companies that have, I think they call them hybrid policies that do provide some personal coverage as opposed to, you know, and as well as coverage for when they're out on, um, you know, gig economy stuff. How, how is that different or similar as far as buckle is concerned.

Dustin Walsey: 51:37

Yeah, we took the best of personal. I think I mentioned in the best of commercial and kind of merged them together. And what we used is we used a framework that uses a commercial framework that allows for heavy personal use to, to accomplish what we're trying to, uh, achieve. And that is the ability to drive for DoorDash or Uber eats or grub hub on our policy. And at the same time, drive your kids to school or go on a family. And our commercial policy is designed such that it's got very, again, understandable features that they're very common in insurance policy, 500 or a thousand dollars deductible liability, physical damage, uninsured motorist, medical payments, towing, and rental, all those traditional pieces that, that are really designed for that. Um, you know, I, uh, a commercial policy tends to be, you know, a true hardcore, like commercial policy tends to be much more expensive than ours and a personal policy just really doesn't offer the coverage that we provide.

Ron at EntreCourier: 52:38

Right. I had a, there for a little while a hybrid policy and when I first got it, you know, it was, it was one of the major ones that's always on TV and when I first got it, it actually was surprisingly close in price to what a personal policy would be. But boy, within two years, it sure cranked up pretty high. It was like each year that amount jumped up.

Dustin Walsey: 53:03

I mean, it's becoming a more expensive risk class than personal auto. It really is.

Ron at EntreCourier: 53:09

I'm wondering if, um, for these commercial policies, if credit ratings are even more prohibitive, as far as how they impact your, your premiums and stuff, then even on a personal policy?

Dustin Walsey: 53:23

Well, I love, I love that. You've just brought that up. So we, we don't use credit in any of our decision-making factors. Um, so. Which is, which is great, which most of the carriers that we compete with do, um, I can't comment on how each one uses credit score, but, uh, we, we completely ignore it. We believe it's discriminatory. And, um, and uh, we use other factors like time on app where you're driving, you know, those sorts of. Okay.

Ron at EntreCourier: 53:51

Okay. So do you, um, so I take it, do you, uh, you connect or you're able to kind of see that activity on the apps with a lot of these providers then?

Dustin Walsey: 54:00

That's correct. That's correct. And we work with a lot. We work directly with a lot of providers as well, uh, because we also have. Cover them. So when a buckle driver has a policy, we're actually stepping in front of the delivery company and we're taking, you know, the liability up to the minimum limits that we provide and it actually supports and helps those companies, uh, de-risk their balance sheets. So we have partnerships with, you know, You know, lots of different delivery companies, such as, you know, Doordash and, you know, goPuff and, and, you know, and lift. And th they actually, um, recommend to their drivers or help promote our policies to their drivers and the benefits that it provides.

Ron at EntreCourier: 54:45

Okay. Okay. Um, yeah, that's what I wonder was kind of how that relationship works. And so you've got like a lot of companies that you're you're working with, but now let's say if I'm driving for one of these new up and coming guys, um, you know, I don't know if you guys have a relationship yet with like, deliver that, who does catering orders. Um, is there a difference in how you're covered or something like that? If you're doing work for a company that isn't quite like one of your relationships or anything like that, or how does that work?

Dustin Walsey: 55:16

Yes, that actually is an awesome question. So when we have partnerships with the companies, it changes the way we cover, um, primarily liability. Okay. Um, so if we have a partnership with you, we'll help extend liability. If not, you know, w w we won't, because. You know, there's benefit that we have that, you know, the delivery companies are, are helping promote us that are helping educate their drivers about us that are helping us investigate claims and things of that nature. So depending on, um, our partnerships, uh, will really drive the, uh, the, the risk transfer, uh, for, for a technical term that we, we achieve with these companies.

Ron at EntreCourier: 55:54

Okay. Um, if maybe somebody does the majority of their work for a company that you haven't partnered with yet, will that have an impact on being able to get a policy or being in or anything like that?

Dustin Walsey: 56:14

Yeah, so, so, so what, what we do is we make it actually really clear both, uh, mainly which is on the deck page, but you know, it's through the app as well, who and what we're covering and, uh, uh, the ones that we don't, so we'll cover the physical damage. You know, but maybe not the liability, um, that will affect price. It, it inevitably impacts everything. Our goal, our goal is to have a partnership with every delivery company out there. Um, we believe that we should be we're friends with all, and that we're a good to the actual ecosystem in general. So, uh, you know, we, we, we spend a lot of time with all these companies working with them, you know, trying to showcase our benefits, uh, the benefits, not just to the driver, which in our opinion is the most important, but also to the company itself. So it is, it is a process. Um, you know, it is really hard because there's so many, as you just mentioned, new companies that are very regionalized and some might just be an us city right now. And, um, it, it, it's, it's challenging. So I think we do an excellent job right now with the big boys. Um, and we're starting to move sort of one tier down into, you know, the, the S the, the more regionalized players versus the national carriers,

Ron at EntreCourier: 57:25

kind of, there's a lot of us out there that, you know, the bulk of what we're doing or with the big guys, because generally they have enough, especially the guys that do it full-time or something like that. And, you know, cause those guys have enough work to keep you busy. And then you might have a little regional company that, you know, maybe once every three weeks something pops up, that is okay. That's worth taking. Um, so is there, there's, there's a, is there a possibility that say if you do in all of that, but then you get this one job and that one job is when something happens. Is there still, like, is there a possibility of not being covered for part of it then or something, or?

Dustin Walsey: 58:06

But depending on the coverage that's extended. So we, we probably would not be covering liability in that situation, which would be made clear to the driver that if you're driving for companies that we're not working with, we're not going to take liability for it. Sure. Okay. We might take it and it's all very clearly laid out. Okay. We've invested a lot of time, um, in our member services team, who are our agents as well, that are really educating our drivers. So they understand what is covered and what is not okay. In a perfect world. We'd cover everything, but it's, it's um, it's, it's not a perfect world.

Ron at EntreCourier: 58:38

Sure. Okay. Um, So probably something similar if, uh, I know a couple of guys that, you know, they pick up just some little, uh, you know, on the side type things where they'll do a delivery directly for a restaurant and there's a gay, some gray area there. Yeah. Okay. Okay. And that's, you know, and that's good to know, and I think that's the important thing. Anything you do is, um, gosh, you got to know what they're going to cover and what they're not going to cover.

Dustin Walsey: 59:05

It's so it's so difficult, Ron. You know, like I just went insurance was five years ago, 10 years ago. No one even thought this stuff ever existed, so everything's playing catch up. But yet this thing's expanding and rapidly growing so fast. So it's not just companies like us. There's all these companies that are supporting all these drivers that are just, they're just trying to catch up, catch up. And these, all these new delivery companies are coming up faster, doing deliveries differently and doing things uniquely. And it it's, it's, it's fun, but it's challenging.

Ron at EntreCourier: 59:38

I'm sure it is. Yeah. Um, so one last question, I guess kind of in, you know, all of these different types of scenarios, especially where you don't have buckle is like I've got it's, it's just a national, you know, national policy. Um, there, you know, I've definitely double checked. I don't have any exclusions in there. And, uh, and, and I've, I've gotten clarification too, from my agent to say, Is there anything that I'm missing or something like that. And he says, no, you're covered. You're covered. All right. Is there anything in that kind of a policy with they're still a disadvantage compared to. Uh, something that is more directly tied to, you know, commercial policy or a buccal type policy or anything like that. Are there concerns that somebody ought to have on that type of policy where maybe their policy does cover them or doesn't exclude them, but it's not a commercial policy.

Dustin Walsey: 1:00:35

You know, I, again, I can't speak on each individual policy of what, what I would tell you what I would tell everybody, obviously read the fine print, read the fine print with the CA the, the delivery partners that you're working with. Um, you know, I think it's a, typically a commercial policy is going to provide broader coverage than a personal with an. Um, but to, to understand that, and they understand the risk rewards of, of those decision-making is critical. Uh, you know, our agents are happy with people want to call up and ask direct questions on specific things. But again, I would direct those questions back to an agent and let them answer those questions. But typically we find that we're offering the most complete coverage out there, uh, for the delivery driver.

Ron at EntreCourier: 1:01:19

Okay. Okay. Thank you.

Dustin Walsey: 1:01:20

I look forward to being in Colorado soon.

Ron at EntreCourier: 1:01:23

Well, I hope so. That'd be great. That would be great. Uh, look forward to that as well. Um, I know you've been a great, uh, taking the time here to be with me and everything like that. And I want to respect your time. Is there anything, any kind of message that you would maybe offer to drivers that we haven't covered yet so far?

Dustin Walsey: 1:01:40

Yeah. I mean, first of all, thank you for all that you do. I mean, it makes the world work these days. Uh, but again, Insurance is so critical. It's so important to protect yourself, to protect your car, to protect your assets, to protect your earnings in livelihood. That it, I know it, you know, inflation's real gas is expensive. Um, Uh, insurance rates are going up. Everything in this world is getting more expensive, but you know, that car is so critical and that extra couple of dollars here there is, is really worth it. In the end of the day, to have the peace of mind that your car's covered, that your earnings are covered. And, um, if you have any questions, you know, please feel free. You can find us@buckleup.com. We're on Twitter, we're on LinkedIn, we're on Facebook. And, uh, we really do a good job putting the driver first. And that, that is our focus is, you know, the gig driver. So. Uh, uh, love the industry and. I, I appreciate you having me on, uh, on your podcast.

Ron at EntreCourier: 1:02:38

Yeah. And I need to clarify that because I think I said get buckle didn't I?

Dustin Walsey: 1:02:44

Buckleup.com.

Ron at EntreCourier: 1:02:45

Yeah. It's buckleup.com. So I got to make absolutely sure. And maybe I can dub that in. I don't know, earlier in the.

Dustin Walsey: 1:02:51

I think we'll be all right. I, getbuckle might work, I don't know.

Ron at EntreCourier: 1:02:55

Well guys, you know, and especially if, if buckle is in your state, you definitely want to take a look and actually you can go to buckle up.com and you can kind of start the process or something like that. And, and if they're interesting to you at all, I would, I would recommend that you at least, you know, fill it out because the more that Buckle knows that people in your state want to be there. I'm sure that's going to kind of shift some of their priorities.

Dustin Walsey: 1:03:25

The the other thing is, even though we might not be writing insurance, your state, there's a lot of content up there. We've partnered with Harry, the rideshare guy who does a great articles and some other people where there's really content around all different types of top topics that are really relevant to the gig driver, um, that, uh, is, is useful in the blogs as well as, um, anybody who, uh, shares data with us. You know, we have a membership where they can get discounts on various, you know, Products and services as well. So, uh, you know, we're going to get to all 50 states at some point here in the next year or two. And, uh, we'll look forward to working with everybody and Ron on all the support, you know, people like yourself to give us and the visibility's really important for the driver.

Ron at EntreCourier: 1:04:08

All right. Well, Dustin, again, thanks for joining us on the podcast and I wish you all the best.

Dustin Walsey: 1:04:14

Thank you.

Ron at EntreCourier: 1:04:16

Well, Courier Nation, what did you think? I really appreciate having Dustin on, and I really appreciate that he was willing to answer, you know, a lot of, a lot of questions about delivery and, and I really appreciate the fact that he was, he was upfront about things as well, as we asked about specifics about his policies and different things like that. I cannot give you any kind of recommendation about Buckle, because first of all, I don't have them myself. They're not here in Colorado yet. And, so I can't tell you that"yes, they are a great insurance company. Yes, they are the policy that you should have." I'm not sure I could really do that about anybody, you know, and I'm not going to do that just because I might get paid for it or something like that. I'm going to be honest about, you know, the things that I like and the things that I don't like. And, and I really, here's the thing that I really want to say is I do really appreciate this about these guys, that everything that I have seen, social media, with their interactions, with other people that I know, everything that I have seen about buckle, I have this impression that this is a company that cares deeply about the independent contractor, that they want to provide something to make sure that you're covered, that you're taken care of. And, I really get a sense that they advocate for independent contractors. Um, they, I think they really understand this whole treating this like a business idea, all of these different things. So I really appreciate that about buckle. I'm going to be honest with you that if, and when they become available here in Colorado, I don't know that I will sign up. And it's because of one thing. And that is because I do make deliveries for some of these other platforms that are out there and so and some of them are not covered. And I don't do any independent delivery work myself. but I don't want to rule that out either. But, you know, we mentioned, I think we talked about DeliverThat and Curri a couple of them that I've done deliveries for. And I'm a little concerned that I'm not going to be covered, you know, that, that buckle the, one of the things that sets them apart and makes them real solid is that they've got a working relationship with these gig economy companies. But if they don't have that relationship with them, you know, it's not an all encompassing policy. At least that was the way I understood it. And uh, if, if I hear otherwise, you know, I definitely want to make sure that I correct that, but as it stands right now, You could still have some gaps if you're deciding to do some deliveries for any platforms that are not partnered with buckle. And so that would be, that would be my caveat. That would be my thing to say that if they are in your state and you're only doing deliveries for the big guys, if you're only doing deliveries for platforms, goPuff, I believe Doordash Grubhub, Uber, Lyft, you know, these companies that they have relationships with, they could be a good alternative. And for a lot of drivers and maybe have some issues with high with high premiums because of you know, maybe credit or different things like that, you know, we've all been there before and I think they can be a real good alternative because they don't take your credit into account and instead they kind of are able to look a lot more at just your relationship with the delivery companies. And they know that you're actually making money out there, things like that. So there's, there's a lot of things with them that I think there are some good things. There were some things that you just got to watch out for. And, and I think that's true anything you do with insurance? Ask all the questions, ask all the questions, talk to your agent, talk to talk to people you know, at the insurance company, ask the question, say if I'm on a delivery and I get into an accident, am I covered? And you've got to find that out because here's the deal. I just read an article, today or yesterday about somebody that got carjacked, you know, somebody, took their car while they were taking food in or something like that. And. Uh, they recovered the car pretty quickly, but it had already been, it had been wrecked and this guy was on his own. He was not covered and obviously Doordash, wasn't going to cover him. His insurance company didn't cover him because he was on deliveries and they had exclusions and the exact things that we've been talking about. And it's that kind of stuff that all of a sudden, now he's got this damage to his car. If he's got a loan. They want that money. The bank wants that money. Now, if you know, somehow he's got to get that car fixed. It's just all of a sudden, you're in a spot where you got to do some and you don't have the money for it. That's the whole idea of insurance to begin with. So. My whole point is just make sure you've got the right insurance. Okay. And if it's your personal, I've got a personal policy and I've made sure that, that there's no exclusions and I've double checked with the agent and triple checked and gone through all the language. So I'm comfortable with that. There may be, you know, maybe you're looking at a hybrid policy by a couple of the big names, you know, that have all the commercials on TV and you know, the thing is is just ask the questions and make sure that you're covered. It is maybe the most important thing you could do for your delivery business. And that wraps it up for today. Thanks guys for coming back. And as I mentioned, right at the beginning, you know, hopefully you got your taxes taken care of. If you're listening to this right, as it came out, uh, get it done, get it done quickly if you haven't gotten it done yet. And, and one thing that I asked, you know, that I, that I want to wish you, I just, um, to me Easter weekend, that's a special time, there's, it's just the message and the thing that you celebrate, you know, I'll just be honest, incredibly important to me. And if that's you, I want to wish you just, just a wonderful Easter Sunday but more than anything folks, what I really want to wish for you is, is that you can take control of whatever's going on in your life, but especially in your business, as we talk about delivering on your business and to go out and just be the boss of your own business.