Episode 83: Should Uber Eats Include the Tip In the Offer Amount

For the associated blog post with screenshots and links you can go to the website page for Episode 83

UDM broke the story on his Youtube channel that Uber Eats is rolling out a change in the delivery offer display in some markets.

"Starting today, you'll see an upfront price that includes the expected customer tip. This is based on what your customer adds upon checkout. The exact tip amount may change as customers have 1 hour after delivery to edit or change their tip."

Early last year Uber Eats rolled out a change where customers could tip when placing the order. But they still allow you to edit or change the tip. That's a good thing but it's also something that could make this change a disaster. We talk about why in this episode.

Some other relevant links mentioned in today's episode:

My article on reverse cherry picking.

An earlier article referring to accusations that Doordash was stealing tips.

Earlier this week we posted about Grubhub's minimum pay during the pandemic

One concern with the new practice is customers could begin tip baiting - a practice that has been a problem with Instacart customers.

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Transcript

0:03

Well, hello, Courier Nation. Welcome to the Deliver on your business podcast, where you are the boss. Each week we talk about how to make the most of your business as an independent contractor, as a courier delivering four gig economy apps like Grubhub, DoorDash, Postmates, Uber Eats and so many others. Well, hello, Courier Nation, welcome back again. It is good to have you back and it is good to be back on this week's episode of the Deliver on Your Business podcast. So how are you all doing out there? Shoot me a note sometime. Let me know how things are going. Let me know the kinds of questions you have, the things you'd like to talk about, different stuff like that now lately, before diving into the topic for the episode. I've been talking about some of the other things going on, and I want to do that just a little bit today. But this time I want to talk a little bit about what has got coming up next week on the podcast, on the podcast, with the blog post and with the podcast episode. That'll be the first opportunity with a link to sign up on this course that I'm working on, I'm putting together an email course. I'm still not sure the exact a couple of details on that. I'm still getting put together and I've been down not doing as much delivery the last few days. I've had a little bit of arthritis kind of up on my knee, and that's kind of forced me to stay at home and which is a good thing in some ways because then it just makes me work on some of the stuff that I've been wanting to work on. So that's a good thing. But next week, we'll do the official announcement and I'll have all the details in there. So I'm kind of forcing myself to have things ready, aren't I? By announcing that? Another thing that I'm looking at doing here in the next several weeks is I'm going to start taking a little bit more deeper, look at some bike delivery. I've done one or two articles about it, but I'm kind of of the mind of really trying to give it a a little more of a shot than just, you know, every once in a while, I'll go out for a couple of hours in the afternoon or something like that. So be prepared for that. And one thing that I really want to encourage you to do is go to go check out financialpanther.com and Kevin. Hopefully he'll be able to be on as a guest here sometime soon. Kevin's got an amazing story, you know, just all things around. He paid off just a huge amount of debt, and he did that by doing gig work. And lately he has been knocking out like five or six deliveries an hour, sometimes all while doing deliveries on an e-bike. So I'm hoping to get him lined up here sometime soon in the next week or two to be able to talk a little bit about that. And maybe we can get him on again another time just to talk about some of the financial advice that he's got because he's got a lot of good stuff. So go check out financialpanther.Com. Look up financial panther on Twitter. He's always putting up a link when he's got something going on there. You really ought to check him out. One last thing I want to dive into just a little bit before getting into the topic. The last three weeks I did a series on what is it like to deliver for these different delivery companies? And I started off with Uber Eats and then I talked about Grubhub two weeks ago, and last week I talked about DoorDash and the one that I did not get into and I finally decided I'm not going to do an episode on them is Postmates. And mostly, I thought, OK, instead of getting into that, I'll just do a real quick thing. I think as far as I'll just give you a couple of quick thoughts that I've got with Postmates and why I'm not doing it and why I'm not delivering for Postmates. If you listen to me much, you know, because I don't hide my feelings about this at all. As far as Postmates is concerned, in fact, I've been blocked by ash and lemon on on Twitter, so I've maybe been more vocal than I thought I had been. I don't know. But here it is in a nutshell. I actually kind of enjoyed Postmates for the most part. A lot of people really hated them because they felt like they didn't get paid well. When I started running numbers for everybody individually, I was really surprised to find out that I was making as much or maybe even slightly more on my Postmates deliveries. And so there were some good things about it. I loved the freedom. I love just being able to log on, log off on the fly. And so there were a lot like Uber Eats in that regard. Now, back in the day, they were better at their customers were better at tipping then than on Uber Eats, which were both platforms that people tipped after the fact. And you had at least, you know, you could see on a map something as far as where you were going. And back when I was doing more Postmates, you couldn't see that with Uber Eats. And so there were times that it was actually really good. I have not delivered a Postmates delivery in almost a year now. It may be more than a year now. And in fact, to the point now that I can't deliver, I've I've tried logging in and I can't get in and I can't get any answers from support or any responses from support. That's part of the problem with Postmates is support is non-existent and I think it's just I've been on off for so long or something like that that I just I can't find anything that told me that they deactivated me or anything like that. But actually, when I try and log in, I just get stuck on this spinning wheel of, I don't know, spinning wheel of death. I guess you would call it. But the reason that I quit delivering for Postmates is very simple. It is one thing, actually, it's a combination of a couple of things, but the main one was when they started their party line thing there, their party line feature. They started this feature where if somebody places an order, then from a restaurant, then other people living nearby there had a certain amount of time that they could then place an order also, and they'd get a free delivery doing that. Great idea in that regard. But the problem was that was how it is implemented on the delivery side. And that is, let's say I take a I accept an offer at Joe's pizza, so I go to Joe's pizza and then all of a sudden I get this little notification. Another delivery has been added to your queue. So what do you mean? Well, what do you mean? Another delivery has been added. I did not get any kind of offer. I did not get any kind of notification. I did not get any kind of opportunity to reject that offer. And then all of a sudden, I've got two and I've had as many as four deliveries all of a sudden show up from the same restaurant. That's a problem. That's especially a problem when you're trying to kind of work around some other things or something like that. But it's a huge problem as far as the independent contractor relationship. You can't just add deliveries on. Without giving me the opportunity to reject that offer, so so that was a huge issue right there. And I mentioned, I guess, kind of a few issues that kind of compound on that. And the biggest problem with that was, OK, that would happen. And it's like all of us said, No, no, no, I am not doing four deliveries out of this place right now, especially when sometimes those deliveries can last a long time. Well, the problem is you cannot selectively decline any of them. If you decide you're not taking all of those deliveries, you have to. It dumps all of the deliveries. And I had that one time I dropped 4.4 deliveries on me. Well, all of a sudden I get this warning that says, Hey, you can be deactivated here for rejecting too many offers. And the other thing that happened was they knocked me offline for better than an hour because you dropped too many deliveries, so you can't take any offers for four. It was like a 65 minutes. I think it was. And it's like, No, that's that's totally wrong, you know, and I understand when you accept a delivery, you're making a commitment to that. And you know, some of the companies kind of make a Grubhub and DoorDash, DoorDash especially make a big deal out of that, and I kind of understand that. But it's when they are deliveries that are added on without you getting the opportunity to accept it and then you're getting punished and possibly even being deactivated. I've seen a lot of people that have been deactivated for that very thing. And so when you add all of that up, it was just like, OK, I'm done until they fix that problem. I'm done. And I, you know, I tried to log back in not that long ago. Just OK, I'm going to give it a try, see if the same things happen, any of that stuff. And like I said, I couldn't get in and I didn't feel like I could give you a a wide enough and current enough viewpoint of what I felt like. My experience was doing deliveries for Postmates when my experience really is only going to be memories from almost a year ago. So that's where that is. But that's kind of, in a nutshell, kind of my my take on Postmates and why I don't do Postmates right now. So enough of that. Let's dive into the topic for today. OK, so let's get into the topic for the day, and that is this question, should Uber Eats be showing the tip amount as part of the pay offer they show on their offer screen? Should you know which you are completely going to get from Uber Eats upfront? And the reason that I ask this question is it's starting to happen, at least in. I'm guessing that it's a test market. Now, I got to be honest here, I stole this topic and I stole it from YouTube. Usually, I don't have much to do with what I see on YouTube, because most of it I just see is clickbait pants and not a lot of substance, but there is one person in particular that I really I just got to say, I really respect the way he approaches everything like that. He has been on this podcast before, and that is Udim, he goes. Brian is his name. He goes by Udm on his YouTube channel. And he brought this up. He received an email. And so he's always been one that has commented about how my market is always the one that seems to get like the first look at changes that these different gig economy companies roll out. Well, Udm got the scoop on this one here, and he received an interesting email. And so I want to talk about that because that's what it looks like. They're starting to try and try out, at least. I don't know if it is part of a gradual rollout. I don't know if it's a test market type of thing. But in his market, he's down in Florida. He said that Uber Eats announced that they're testing a new feature. He got an email that said, starting today, you will see an upfront price that includes the expected customer tip. I'm like, Whoa. This is based on what the customer adds upon checkout, the exact tip amount may change as customers have one hour after delivery to edit or change their tip. Or delete their tip, that part's not in that email, but we all know that that's a big part of it. All of a sudden, Uber Eats is playing with trying to be like the other guys, and it's something that a lot of people have been clamoring for. And so this is kind of a big deal. This is a big change. You got to remember that it was only a few months ago that with average, you got an offer. You didn't even know the name of the restaurant. You might be able to guess based on where it is on the map that they showed you. You had no clue whatsoever where you were going and you didn't know what you were going to make. And they changed all this. Now they present present information that I think kind of rivals what anybody else is doing. It's almost as good, maybe even better than what DoorDash provides, because you know, the restaurant, you know, the drop off location. One thing you know that nobody else tells you is like the cross streets nearest to the customer. You know, the total miles, you know, the estimated time that it's going to take. That's another thing that nobody else shows you. And really, the only thing you don't know is what the actual pay will be. You do know they give you a dollar amount. Now that is something else that was new that they rolled out as part of their pay model change late last year, early this year. But they didn't include the tip into that, at least until now in at least one market and probably a few markets. And so that's going to be interesting. You will see an upfront price that includes the expected customer tip. Now, like I said, the last few months, Uber Eats has started showing an amount, but it is how much you could probably expect to receive from them now that displayed amount was a minimum amount that you would receive. I've had a number of times when that Uber Eats portion, you know that the amount is what is Uber Eats going to pay you? And that's basically their fare, plus what they call the trip supplement a plus, whatever. Maybe the boost is or something like that. And. I've had a number of times where the actual pay was more than what they had. And most of those times it's had to do with restaurants where I've had to wait a little bit longer and I've had a couple of times where the route because of traffic, you had to go a different direction or something like that. And Uber Eats still seems to pay based on real time information. That's at least you know what, what I have observed. I've never actually heard it said or whatever. I've never actually seen it confirmed. They don't tell you anymore how they base their whatever their pay is, but it has been sometimes and usually it's when it has taken longer than what you might expect for that delivery to happen. You end up getting paid a little bit more. And I say that to their credit, because I'll tell you that Grubhub and DoorDash, they're still based on their estimate. And if you get stuck with a long wait, sometimes you can get some extra money for it, but you got to go through support to do it. My experience is that's usually more lost that time than what you get compensated for. It's not worth going after it. In my experience, but anyway, you know, everybody says I at least automatically adjust for that. That's a good thing. But one thing has been true for me is that probably 90 percent or more of my deliveries pay a lot more than what was offered on that screen. And that is because the tip has never factored into that displayed amount. And it still isn't in my market here in Denver, but it looks like it's starting to show up in some places. And so it's going to be interesting to see what that's like. Now the thing you've got to pay attention to is they said this is based on the expected tip. One of the thing that's really different about Uber Eats, and this is the part that I think makes it a little tricky. I think it makes it a little risky, actually. And that is this piece that says that. The customer has up to an hour to adjust or add or delete their tip. In other words, the amount that they're going to be displaying is not a guaranteed amount and they will be the only ones to do that. They will be the only ones out of the major three delivery companies where you could actually get less than what they display on the offer screen. And so now DoorDash does sometimes allow someone to add a tip after the fact. Although my experience has been. That really only happens if the customer didn't put a tip in there in the first place, I don't know if anybody's ever gotten a tip added on after when there's already been a tip through the app. To my experience and to my knowledge, you can only do that if they didn't tip ahead of time to begin with. Grubhub doesn't give you any option at all. Now, sometimes I think you can go in there with either of those two, if you call support and everything like that, but I have never, ever, ever seen a different amount from Grubhub than what was promised upfront. So I've never seen the tip adjusted. So that means either I've just done such a good job on the customer service or you know that nobody's ever tried to get the tip back or if they did, they still didn't come back and take it away from me, you know? Now, personally, I kind of liked it that way, that they did things that way that as far as being able to change the tip now, it was only, gosh, a year year and a half ago that they introduced that ability to tip through the app when you're placing the order. But I always kind of liked that they did that because there's just too many bad apples out there that are delivering, I think there's too many times, especially with Grubhub, where you get somebody, they just don't give a crap and they will give terrible service. And there's there's no consequence. There's there's absolutely no consequence for bad service or anything like that. And I think sometimes it ought to be that somebody can take that chip away or change that tip. I think that it's fair that somebody be tipped based on their customer service. And so I don't have an issue with that being able to change it or anything like that. I do think, though, that because they can do that when you couple that with now showing people an amount based on that expected tip that can lead to some problems, we'll get into that in just a minute here. But why are they doing this? My take is, guys, I really do think I think Uber Eats is poised to really make a run at DoorDash. I think they're really pushing to make a run at number one. And I think they could do it. I have watched them make these gradual changes and I've watched them make the changes quietly. And I think they see an opportunity here with all of the issues that DoorDash has had with their app and with service and different things like that that I think Uber Eats could really make a run here at number one. But to do that, they're going to have to get more couriers if they grow their market, if they grow their customer base, if they grow the deliveries, they've got to get more people doing deliveries. And to do that, they've got to overcome a bad reputation that they've got among couriers, at least among the people that don't deliver for Uber Eats. And I would be among those or I was among those all of 2019, I I didn't even do $600 of UberEats and that was a full time driver. And and that's just somebody that really almost all of my deliveries were Grubhub and DoorDash. So I barely touched UberEats, and it was almost grudgingly when I did, and sometimes I did it just to see what it was like because they really weren't a good option. And the main reason they weren't a good option was because you didn't have the information you need to make it a good decision. And especially if you're trying to mix it up with other delivery companies, you didn't know where you were going, you didn't know what you were going to get. You had no idea what you were getting into whenever you took a delivery offer. And to me, that was a deal breaker, and it was only when they made that change that I started doing more Uber Eats that gave them a try and was actually kind of blown away about how well I was able to do with that. But the thing is, towards the end of last year, the beginning of this year, they started rolling out. A change where they started showing on the map where you were going and and they changed their pay model, and there were a couple of things I didn't like about that pay model change. They took away some of the transparency and how you could figure out, you know, where you know, how much you were going to get paid. It used to be very clear and and it was real easy to determine what you were going to make on an Uber Eats delivery. And I did like that part, but they did take that away. But in return, they added the information. They added the restaurant name. They added a map that shows you where the customer is, so you could get an idea what you were getting. And all of a sudden they started looking better. And then over time, they're just adding more and more stuff to it. And if you go to EntreCourier.com/83, which is for episode 83, that's the associated blog post. I've got some screenshots of some different things. I've got, you know, screenshots of the email that Brian or UDM displayed during his video. But I also got one that shows kind of the progression of some of the things. I've posted this a few times, but it was kind of like, you know, four different screenshots of offer screens over time, and each one just added something to what they're providing. And so. Eats has been doing it, I think a good job of. Improving the experience and making it work better for the drivers. They are. I mean, as far as I think experience, as far as everything right now, they're my favorite easily over the other two. I just enjoy doing the deliveries more and I'm making more money right now with them. But it's it has been kind of amazing to see and it's just been these little incremental changes and and they've been doing it quietly. And I think it's all about they're making a run at DoorDash. But there are just too many people out there that especially if they've delivered for Uber Eats before and they kind of still think it's like what it was before. So they're not going to touch them or. They still have this one sticking point that you don't know the total amount that you're going to get. And if you don't know the tip amount and you don't know what you're going to make is not worth taking in their mind. And so I honestly think that's why they're trying this out to see if they can pick up more drivers and and put them in a better position to take over number one. That's my guess. That's my guess why they're doing it. I don't have any word from the horse's mouth or anything like that, so I couldn't tell you for sure. But that's that's my take on what's going on. Now the question is, is it a good idea? I think that's a real good question. I think a really, really good question. And to be honest, I don't know. My gut is it's not such a great idea, but I do think, you know, adding the chip tip information will make them more attractive to a lot of drivers. I think it's one thing keeping a lot of them from giving UberEats, another shot or a first shot, because Grubhub and DoorDash already provide that information and they won't touch UberEats without that information. But. I'm also afraid that it could backfire. Personally, I would rather they didn't include the expected tip in the order amount and which is kind of funny because if if you read much of my stuff and listen to some of my episodes, you know, I preach this 40 cent rule when it comes to accepting orders, things like that. And all of that kind of depends on knowing what you're going to get paid. And it's hard to do that if you don't know what you're going to get paid. So why? Why wouldn't I want the tip included here? But I think with the way that Uber Eats does some things, unless they really make some fundamental changes in other areas, I think it could just really be a problem. And I think the biggest reason is that, you know, the amount they're going to show is not going to be a guaranteed amount when you know, right now, when you get an offer from Uber Eats, you know, it could vary, but it's always if it varies, it's going to be for more. With DoorDash, it could vary, but when it varies, it's always more. And all of a sudden they're going to put themselves into a position where. The customer can change the tip, and that makes it possible for the payout to be less than what showed up on the offer screen. And I'm going to tell you that's going to create some huge issues. It's going to create a cry and you're going to get a lot of pissed off drivers. I'm just I'm just telling you, that's what you can expect. And so I think that's part of the problem is that with any of the other carriers, it's like you get this dollar amount thrown at you and it's a form of a contract. It really is. And it's like if they don't pay you what it is and some people say they don't always get paid what they were offered. If you've got the screenshot of that, you can go back, you can get the pay. Well, this one is going to be you might get paid this much money. That's what it looks like right now. But if the customer takes the tip away, you won't get paid that much. That's going to be a problem. I think another thing for me has been that on Uber Eats, knowing the tip just hasn't been necessary to me, it kind of surprises me. I, you know, from from the way that I have always done things in the way I've always evaluated offers, I really never expected that that would be the case. And yet I think that's part of what has made it work so well is just this maybe there's not as much stress or something like that that I just I look at different things. And in fact, if anything, you know, what I do is usually you could call it a reverse cherry pick. I even wrote about that, about how I reverse cherry pick on Uber Eats. And I wrote that especially before you knew before they started displaying some things like, you know, the distance and the amount of time that a delivery could take. And it was like that low dollar offer when they started adding dollar amounts because it was the amount that was paid by Uber Eats and because Uber Eats still more than anybody else, I think ties the pay to the time in the distance. A very low paying offer meant that it was going to be short and it was going to be fast. And so if I did anything based on the dollar amount. I was more likely to decline to reject the high dollar offers and more likely to accept the low dollar offers, because what I've learned is that with UberEats, the most important thing to look for is how fast you can get it done. If you don't know the tip amount, the thing is is a low tip hurts you less on a very short, fast delivery. And usually, if you can get it done in 10 minutes or 15 minutes, you're going to do OK, even if you don't get a tip. And so I didn't stress about the tips with Uber Eats and quick, short deliveries meant you could just get more deliveries done, and that was always going to add up. And in my experience, that has always added up to. In the end, you're making I'm making more than if all I did was just focus on high paying orders with anybody else and. But this one change. I mean, maybe it's kind of more of a personal thing because if all of a sudden now they're displaying that dollar amount, it kind of makes my reverse cherry pick method obsolete, doesn't it? Almost, I think there's still some merit to it. Here's another issue I see, including the expected tip amount is going to create a cherry picking problem for Uber Eats. I'll say that in a loving way because I see myself as a cherry picker, but I just see that I just see that changing a lot of things with Uber Eats, and I'm a little worried about what that could mean as far as just the overall experience that results because of that. If you're not familiar with that term, cherry picker, that's a term has been used in the courier community, it really, you know, I first started seeing it used in, you know, in reference to Grubhub because back when I started two and a half years ago, Grubhub was the one place where you knew what you were going to get. And it was the one place where you knew when the chip, when, when the delivery didn't have a very good tip to it. And so what happens is people would then just start rejecting those very low paying orders. And a lot of them then started just doing their whole acceptance and rejection amount, you know, routine just based on the dollar amount. It's, you know, they draw the line at $8. I've heard of some that draw the line at $15, anything less than that amount, and they reject it. And if it's more than that amount, they'll do it. Personally, I think it's stupid and because I think you lose a lot of opportunities and I think you still get stuck in some really bad paying situations when you do it just based on the dollar amount. Another topic for another day. I've talked about it before, but anyway. You got to look back at some of the stuff about cherry picking in the history or something like that, like I said, you know that with Grubhub, that was that was the thing there that it happened and people knew what the order was paying. And they would reject, and so Grubhub had a real problem with not getting certain orders delivered. They've had the problem since. As long as I've been around that, they've really struggled on, you know, some of these $3 offers not getting accepted and, you know, orders being really, really late because all the drivers are just passing on these three dollar offers. And what happens is then Grubhub becomes. The one place where they really start getting a lot more involved in all tactics to try and control, or to manipulate or intimidate drivers into accepting offers, into making you think that OK, you could you could lose your ability to deliver for them if you're not accepting orders, things like that. It's a huge problem with Grubhub. I think now DoorDash, Uber Eats and Postmates. At the time, they didn't have the issue with some of those orders sitting there based on no tip because on any of the platforms, you just you didn't know if an order was a stinker, you know, you just didn't know. Uber Eats and Postmates, you didn't know at all what you're going to get. And with DoorDash, they had kind of a different pay model. It would be generally it was almost always five dollars and fifty cents, at least in my market, and it was all based on it was like $1 plus tip. And if the tip wasn't enough to meet what they thought, the minimum ought to be for your work. There is no formula for that or anything like that, then they would make up the difference. And so. You know, you say five dollars and fifty cents was the minimum, but because you didn't know that there was no tip, you didn't know whether it would only be five fifty. It was if the customer tipped well, it could be a lot more than that. And so they didn't have as much of an issue with people taking or rejecting the offers under that pay model. The problem with that was that people started figuring out, you know what, if the customer tipped only a dollar? Or if they didn't tip at all or if they took four dollars and fifty cents, it didn't matter because, you know, you got the same amount of money on any of those situations. And it was like the customer tips more, but you don't make more. And that started ticking off a lot of customers. It started taking off a lot of drivers. It led to accusations that they were stealing tips. You know, I wrote about it way back then, you know, saying, no, they're not stealing tips. It's just this is how it works. This is what they're doing. And you know, a quick little aside, I always found it kind of interesting that. Grubhub is essentially been doing the same thing during the pandemic, and I don't hear any complaining about that, but maybe the reason is that what I found was Grubhub was doing about $9 per delivery minimum compared to the 5.50 that was common with DoorDash. So, you know, of course, they're not going to complain that much, although I guess I did. I did see people starting to say, especially new drivers, that they would say that, well, hey, the base pay is lower when the customer tip is good. That's not fair. And they don't realize that before the pandemic, there was no minimum and you could be getting these three dollar offers anyway. That's an aside. I'll put a link to that article in an article that I just wrote about that whole issue because Grubhub is starting to kind of scale that down. And people are starting to get upset about it. But no, they're not cutting prices or anything like that. You know, once again, back to the topic. DoorDash was forced into changing their pay model because of that criticism. And when they did that, they had to be more upfront about what they were paying out and when they got more upfront about what they're paying out. They started having the same problems with cherry picking that Grubhub has. And since that time, I've seen them get a lot worse about threatening, about manipulating, about intimidating drivers into compliance. And I just don't want to see the same thing happen with Uber Eats. I do wonder if the cherry picking that will happen and it will happen if they start revealing that amount. It will happen. I do wonder if that's going to hurt some customers who actually honestly intend to tip because you got to remember one thing about Grubhub or about Uber Eats. For the longest time, the only option to tip with them, you know, once upon a time, you couldn't even tip through the app, so you had to tip in cash. So you've got a lot of people that are still living off of that. I don't run into as many of them now as I used to. But the other thing is that when you when they did announce, you know, the ability to send tips that. Could only be done through the app after the delivery. And it was only about a year and a half ago that they changed that to where you could start tipping with when you place the order. I always thought that was a bad way to do things just because it goes against the usual psychology of tipping. And that's why I think tipping was so bad on UberEats for a long time. Because people are used to tipping when they pay and when they pay is when they place the order and the other apps. DoorDash and Grubhub got that, you know? But the thing is, you bring the food to the people and they're not thinking about tipping now, they're thinking, I'm hungry. And it's different. You know, it's so it's a different type of thing than when you're at the restaurant. You know you, you tip when you pay. And so they're not as likely to think about going back into the app to provide a tip. And I think that that caused some problems. But that said. I just think there's still a lot of people that are used to tipping after the delivery, and they're not going to know anything's happening, right? And and so they go any place their order and they don't enter the tip yet. Maybe they they just like to do it afterwards. They want to tip well, if the customer, you know, if the customer service is good, they don't want to be stuck with their tip or whatever, whatever. So for them, it's easier just to go. That's what they're used to. They're going to tip after the delivery is done because that's the way they've always done it. But now all of a sudden, their orders are not getting picked up. They're probably going to tip and tip very well, but now their orders aren't getting picked up and everything like that because the offer amount is so low. Now, honestly, I don't feel too bad for Grubhub or DoorDash customers that have this happen to them, and it happens all the time because most of the time when there's no tip on there from Grubhub or DoorDash, they're just not tipping. Every once in a while, they'll they'll they'll tip afterwards. Every once in a blue moon, a DoorDash customer can tip through the app afterwards. But you know, the thing is, you know, you're asking people to perform manual labor. You're asking them to spend your own money on their own car to bring food to you. And if you're not willing to pay for having that done, I don't feel bad for you at all if you don't get your food. And that's how I feel about Grubhub and DoorDash customers that didn't tip in the app, because that's about the only way to tip. That's where DoorDash or Uber Eats is different, though, because that's the way a lot of people are still used to doing it is tipping afterwards. And so in that situation, when it's somebody that is planning to tip, but now they don't get their food because they don't realize that it could keep them from getting their food because there's no tip included in that. You know, I just see that being a bad thing for customers, including customers who do tip. One other issue here, and this may be the biggest one, I don't know it kind of related to the first thing that I said when when I listen to Udm, when he was talking about this and his his wife brought up this concern, I thought it was maybe one of the most insightful things that I've heard on YouTube in a long time. I seriously do. And she brought up, you know, this could be a problem with tip baiting. Now, tip baiting was a problem with Instacart in particular, because, you know, the customers when they place an order and, you know, then people could choose whatever their offers are, their deliveries that they're going to do and they see the amount. So they see a big tip in there, something so they say, OK, this is going to pay really well. And people started figuring out, You know what? I could make sure that I get this delivery done and I get it done. Maybe well. If I had a large tip and then after the delivery is done, they take the tip away and they call it tip baiting that they're going to offer this big tip to get people to take the delivery with the intention of taking that away. Guys, that's going to be an issue, it's not possibly going to be that is going to become an issue with Uber Eats. Once people start to figure out that you know what, their deliveries aren't being taken because there was no tip. People figure that stuff out quickly, and then all of a sudden they're like, Oh, I could add a big tip in there. I make sure I get my food and then I can take the tip away because you have up to an hour to change, to add or delete your tip. And so I think that that's that's just going to happen. It's not a maybe it is going to happen. In the end, I see Uber Eats having a bigger PR issue with drivers as a result of this change and especially the drivers that want nothing to do with Uber Eats right now because they don't know the total amount. Think of it, folks. Think about it this way. You lure these drivers in by adding that tip to the pay amount. Well, those drivers, they're the ones that you know, they deliver now for Grubhub, they deliver now for DoorDash. And with those two companies, they never get less than what is offered. What's going to happen the first time a customer pulls a tip because the service was bad or they were doing tip baiting, and so now all of a sudden you got a $10 offer. And you take that offer, you deliver it. And you only end up getting three dollars because the customer changed their mind on the tip. Who's going to scream the loudest? All of the people that you're trying to get to come over in the first place? And so I just know, you know, you and I both know that's going to happen there. All hell is going to break loose once people are getting less than what they feel like, they were promised. You know, I think, you know, everyday is going to make it clear. So this is based on the expected tip. But it doesn't matter once you show that, hey, you can make ten dollars on this. And the customer only makes $3. All hell will break loose. So I don't know, you know, what's going to happen with this, is it? Is this a test? Or is it part of a gradual rollout? They are absolutely planning on doing it. I don't know. You know, I'll stay on. I'll be keep my eye out just to see if it's starting to happen in more places and everything. I really do hope it's a test. And personally, I hope the test fails. I think that there's just a big enough problem. When you include the customer has the ability to change that tip amount after the delivery is completed, and that's going to create some major major major issues. And I think it's going to create some bad feelings with drivers, and I'm worried that it could turn Uber Eats into another DoorDash or or Grubhub when it comes to trying to force drivers now to go out and pick up stuff. You know, that's one of the things I've loved about doing. Uber Eats is a lot more freedom and there's a lot less. Pressure, there's a lot less intimidation, there's just you out. You deliver, and that's it. And if all of a sudden you get the cherry picking that goes with people knowing that there's a bad pain deliveries, I'm just worried about what that does to them. So. Once all of this happens, they're going to put this out there, people start doing the deliveries and you start getting the tip baiting and you start getting the people that the customer changed their mind on the tip. What's going to happen from there, you know, is is over. It's going to change that policy about being able to change your tip after the delivery. That could create problems with the customers. Or are they going to start trying to manipulate and bully and all that stuff like Grubhub and DoorDash do? And I don't know that I want to see either one of those happen. I kind of like that policy of being able to change the tip because I think it's fair. I honestly do. But. I really hope they've got the wisdom to see that this is a bad move. And so I want to ask you if you're in one of those markets because I'd love to hear from you if you are, if you're one of those places where they're doing this. Let me know what's happening with that. I'd love to hear from you. Go to the contact page at Ontrack Courier dot com. You can send me an e-mail from there. You can send me a voicemail from there and or shoot me an email run at Entrer Courier dot com. Leave a comment on the comment section and entre courier dot com slash 83. And let me know what your experience is if you're getting that. Is it a good thing? Have you seen problems with it? I'd love to hear from you. Folks, I thank you once again for tuning in. Coming up, we're going to get into a little bit of stuff about e-bikes and we'll get into some stuff about just taking control and being the boss. And and come back for next weekend's episode because we're going to roll out the class to do thirty one days to improving your profits as his delivery contractor. And we'll get you the details on that and where you can sign up. And it is through the podcast and the associated blog posts that you're going to have the first opportunity to sign up for that. So folks, thanks again for being a part of the Deliver on Your Business podcast. Gosh, buddy, buddy. That's all, folks. You know, I can't speak today. Thanks for being a part of this and for being part of Courier Nation. And the last thing that I ask you as you go today is what I ask every week is take control, take control of what you're doing. Guys, a lot of times we get into this gig work and we just kind of feel like we're at everybody's mercy. You're not at anybody's mercy, you're only at your own mercy. So take control. You can do so much by taking control. And if you want to find out more about that, come back next week and get signed up for the class because that's what we're going to get into is just taking control. Go out there and be the boss.