Barbie

The Imbibe Cinema crew raves about Greta Gerwig's Barbie (2023), starring Margot Robbie, Ryan Gosling, America Ferrera, Kate McKinnon, Ariana Greenblat, Simu Liu, Will Ferrell, Michael Cera, Helen Mirren, Issa Rae, and more. The featured cocktail for this post-screening discussion is Frosé.

Barbie and Ken are having the time of their lives in the colorful and seemingly perfect world of Barbie Land. However, when they get a chance to go to the real world, they soon discover the joys and perils of living among humans.

In this episode, Blue Whiskey Independent Film Festival Operations Director and podcast host Jonathan C. Legat is joined by Cinema Centennial Program Director Tricia Legat, Executive Director Michael Noens, and Filmmaker Liaison Katherine Siegle.

Remember to imbibe responsibly! If you haven't seen "Barbie," watch the film before you listen to the episode.

Looking for more episode content? Read the Episode Recap, including links to episode references and the ingredients for this episode's featured cocktail.

To begin your Imbibe Cinema membership, visit imb.watch/membership.

Featuring Music by Soldier Story: "Bring Down the Money (Freedom)"

Transcript

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SPEAKER_02 0:00

I just love it. How our season lasts like years.

SPEAKER_01 0:07

Yeah, it feels like baseball. Greetings andor salutations and welcome to Imbibe Cinema. The Imbibe Cinema podcast is brought to you by the Blue Whiskey Independent Film Festival, otherwise known as Bwiff. We are currently accepting submissions for our 2024 festival. We seek independent character-driven films of all length, styles, and genres. To learn more, visit BWF.com. I am the Festival Operations Director and MC Jonathan C. Leggett, along with my co-host's uh executive director, Michael Newens, and Cinema Centennial Program Director.

SPEAKER_03 1:04

Trisha Leggett.

SPEAKER_01 1:06

And our special guest are uh filmmaker liaison.

SPEAKER_06 1:10

Katherine Siegel.

SPEAKER_01 1:11

Ooh, liaison. Liaison. I I there was a little French to that. Only a little?

SPEAKER_02 1:16

Yeah, well, it's all the rose.

SPEAKER_01 1:18

It's the frose. Yeah. I got the AC on.

SPEAKER_06 1:23

Come on.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

Yeah, no, like I'm schwitzing here. Yeah, you all are there.

SPEAKER_06 1:27

It's a good drink. It's a good drink.

SPEAKER_01 1:29

This is Greta Gerwig's Barbie, uh, which is available on digital download. Uh the cocktail that we are imbibing is, as I have mentioned probably about nine times now, uh the Froze. Uh it is some frozen rose with some vodka and strawberries. It is quite effervescent. Uh the recipe, as well as any pictures, are available on our website, imbibesinema.com. So uh all right. Um who wants to kick off on this one? We know it's gonna be sure.

SPEAKER_02 2:02

I did see the movie like four times. Yeah, maybe four. So here's the thing. First off, I did not want to see Barbie. I didn't want to see this movie. It had no interest for me. I was like, right, you know, next is the elf movie. You know, like what else are they bringing back? And I'm like, yeah, I know. But then um my girls are young and um our neighbor, uh her her daughter's same age, and we were both talking about how the kids were excited to see this movie, and we thought, I don't know, it's PG 13, but then all the marvels are about the same thing. So, like, I don't know. So we went and we're like, we'll just have a girls' night to go out away from our children and just make sure that it's appropriate. And then we saw it and we laughed and we cried, and I was like, Oh my god, this is the best movie, and it's not appropriate for our kids yet. I mean, it just they won't understand it. Like there's a lot that will go over their head, but then I saw it again because another person, my mom, was all like, uh, oh yeah, people are talking about it. And I was like, you know, I'll go see it if you want to go see it. And she's like, Oh no, I don't want you to go out of your way. Okay. Okay. And so then she's like, I talk to all my sisters, they want notes. And I'm like, they can go they're they can go see the movie. I will take everybody one at a time to see this movie.

SPEAKER_04 3:11

Worldwide. Right.

SPEAKER_02 3:12

Yes, right. Every time, every time somebody comes up to me, I'm like, I will help you. Let me help you walk, I will walk you into this theater. And but you know, it's uh it's a really good movie on so many levels, but I have prepared a statement so I don't ramble. There are men that I love and respect that say this is not a movie they want to see. They don't have an interest. This is not a movie for them. They are misled. This movie is more than a discussion about a doll or women, it is a conversation about how we see, treat, understand gender as a society, and it is brilliantly done. I saw an interview from a while back in which Meryl Streep compared gender to language, which I thought was amazing. She said, Women are raised in the language of men. I agree. It is how our history is taught, is how the world is run. We need to speak and understand it to succeed in this world. But men don't need to speak women, and why should they? That language isn't required to survive or to better their situation in this world per se. One of the reasons I love this movie so much is that it is so hopeful. It takes us on a journey of what me it means to be a woman, but also what it means to be human. And it is ridiculous and beautiful and insightful. I found uh I find how society treats the concept of gender fascinating. How threatened and confused we seem to be by it. No matter our gender, we all have the same capacity to learn and grow. We are equally capable intellectually, emotionally, and spiritually. I would argue that we are more alike than we are different. We are equally human and should be respectfully treated as such. It breaks my heart that the world doesn't see that, that we let superficial details, uh differences such as reproductive equipment get in the way of us essentially evolving as a species. After all, in the grand scheme of things, those differences are just accessories. Now, statement completed.

SPEAKER_06 5:11

Wow. Wow. Very impressed. I don't really need to say anything. I just completely agree with what you just said.

unknown 5:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:18

To to add to uh you know what Trisha had had mentioned, uh, we have a mutual friend uh who once said something so poignant and interesting to me um that was when it comes to toys, um you you can't say that that Barbie is not a boy's toy. Uh you you cannot say that it is only a uh a girl's toy, because um the the big question remains, which part of their genitalia do they use to play with? If it is not specifically uh a penis or a vagina, then it is not a gender-specific toy.

SPEAKER_02 5:57

Not that there's should exist.

SPEAKER_01 5:59

No, but at the same time, that you you really can't say that you know it is a gender-specific toy if it does not require gender parts.

SPEAKER_02 6:08

Um the Amazon catalog, which has replaced the JCPenney Sears catalogs of old. Because even though they're all online, they're like, We'll send you a catalog, because that's how the kids get the stuff, right? Right. So the catalog uh has pictures of kids playing with the you know toys as you know catalogs do, having a having a blast so that the children will be like, I want that toy. Look how happy that child is. I will be that happy. Um, but uh now I you see like the whole trucks and superhero stuff, you see girls and boys playing with these toys, along with everybody of uh every um diversity. Yes. Um, so that you know, everybody can see themselves represented uh in consumerism uh under the age of 18.

SPEAKER_01 6:58

Which I think brings us into actually probably the the the first section, which would be child at play. So the the the way that the film let you know that you're in the world of Barbie. Um, you know, the fact that that she doesn't use the stairs, she floats down just the way you know you would the one statement the giant hands come in and play with you.

SPEAKER_06 7:18

No, that what what what why would you think like right that's creepy w the way that the movie opens is I think very brilliant because otherwise jumping into it, it's it's Barbie land, right? But before that, you know, is it Helen Miren? Is she the oh yeah when she's describing dolls prior to Barbie, the only option was to be a mother to these baby dolls.

SPEAKER_05 7:42

Yep.

SPEAKER_06 7:42

And I thought, like, that's right. And I just thought it was a brilliant opening for what we were about to see, given it given it context, because all of a sudden, the next scene, you see every kind of Barbie in every kind of occupation. Yep, and that's who we're playing with now. You know, we don't all have to be mothers.

SPEAKER_01 8:03

She is the monolith, she is the the progression of intelligence, she is the thing that that that helps us to become more enlightened. Uh as a species, we go from being the the chimpanzee to being an enlightened being because of Barbie.

SPEAKER_02 8:21

And it's not the only Stanley Kubrick reference to this film, there are quite a few.

SPEAKER_04 8:25

Yes. So that's the most like obvious one though.

SPEAKER_02 8:28

Right. Like um the uh Mattel's headquarters, Doctor Strange Love headquarters, very similar. Oh, yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 8:36

Um they also reference the shining.

SPEAKER_02 8:38

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:39

Uh the daughters asking if you shining. Are you two shining? Are you shining with a Barbie right now?

SPEAKER_02 8:43

There's so many lines in the script that I love. I just love that this is just sweetly put in right in the beginning, because it's a movie about a major corporation's uh product, right? Right, right. And they are one of the many production companies, right? And so Meloyer Barbie says, in our assessment, money is not speech, and corporations have no free speech rights to begin with. So any claim on their part to be exercising their right is just an their attempt to turn our democracy into a plutocracy. This makes me emotional, and I'm and I'm expressing it. I have no difficulty holding both logic and feeling in the same time. It does not diminish my powers, it expands them. Yes. And I was like, oh my God, I love that. It's like a little disclaimer, and it's like, you can sue us. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:36

Um, the question I guess I would throw out as from from a dialogue standpoint is the the the record skip moment. Do you ever think about dying? Oh, yes. I mean, how like off guard did that catch you?

SPEAKER_02 9:50

Do you try to remember, right? Yes. First time you catch Yeah, I mean it gets a big laugh. I think everybody in the audience. Absolutely, because everything stops. Real, yeah. Everything stops.

SPEAKER_01 9:59

I'm trying to remember if it was part of the trailer. Trailer. It might have been.

SPEAKER_04 10:02

Like I feel part of the trailer. Oh, I I don't think I saw that part in the trailer. Oh. I don't not that I remember, but just remember a lot of beach. Oh, yes. There's a lot of beach. Um, the the park bench scene. Oh my god, it's so beautiful. It's so beautiful. Um, you're so beautiful, I know it. Um, I kind of I just want to reference um a little bit about this just because I think it's it's I I totally agree with it. So uh according to a variety article, this sequence, this whole scene was actually going to be on the cutting room floor. Um, Studio Execs wanted to cut it. And Greta said, If if I cut this scene, I don't know what this movie is about. Yeah. And I couldn't agree with her more. Oh my god, yeah. It's of all of the moments in this movie um that are incredible, and you you like the more you watch it, the more you unpack, the more you you bring away from it. Um, but I remember after seeing it the first time, this this was the scene that stood out. This was the scene that I was like, oh my god, that was such an amazing moment. And such a beautiful what what Greta does um in in the filmmaking is it's like you're going along and you like there's just this undertone constantly throughout the entire movie of like almost every scene, every moment of dialogue where there is just so much more beneath the surface, and you can either get in on a first viewing or you know, get it later and all of a sudden have a realization of, oh wow, I didn't even realize that. Um, but anyway, that was that was just something I wanted to share.

SPEAKER_02 11:52

No, well said. No, that's uh there are scenes in this and one of I think this is the first one, I could be wrong, where um uh when you have like this deep moment, they'll start playing uh the um Billy Eilish song. Yep, and then it builds and then when you have the big, you know, God moment, then the song takes off. And it's like she does this amazing job of like taking the silly, the lighthearted, the deep stuff, the like just all of it and just braiding it neatly together throughout. So it's just un in it it's all tangled together. There's no way of separating it, nothing's like slapped on top.

SPEAKER_04 12:33

It's just beautiful, yep, beautiful, yeah, yep.

SPEAKER_06 12:37

Jumping ahead, there's two well, there's two sections. Um the first of dialogue, America Ferreira's speech. I mean, I feel like that could be a podcast in and of itself. So I don't want to like like go, you know, but I think it's worth mentioning that it was like Trisha's speech in the beginning. It was such an important part. So I want to talk about that a little bit, but then I think a correlation to the park bench scene is at the end when Ruth is talking to Barbie about how the creation of Barbie was necessary to make sense of the world and to get us through the hard times. What? I mean, you here's a Barbie. Yeah, right. You don't think you don't think about that, and then here she is just saying that. Um, you know, us humans need to create these things in the world to help us get through life. Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_03 13:34

It's messy, it's complicated, and then you die. And then you die. Right.

SPEAKER_01 13:38

But then the toy is specifically not meant to have an end. It's it's about the story, it's about the journey, it's about being able to work through stuff essentially on your own to find your own end.

SPEAKER_02 13:52

Yes. In therapy they use dolls.

SPEAKER_01 13:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:54

Do they? I can't say that for certain. It's just what movies have told me. But that people will act like they can use with children, they can use dolls to act out so they can they can express their feelings by having the dolls talk.

SPEAKER_05 14:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:09

Sorry. Right. No. I mean I could be making that up, or it could be from the 70s. What about Bob? What about Bob?

SPEAKER_04 14:15

Set a thing in What About Bob? Yeah. Oh, I don't remember. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:19

Uh sorry. R R Richard Dreyfus's character has like dolls for the every member of his family. And so whenever they get into an argument, the dolls come out so the dolls can have the argument, and then it's not between him and his family. And yeah. Gotta watch What About Bob Again. Oh, so good. But yeah. No, I uh I know specifically that the the line that Ruth uh has at the end uh was what really you know hit Trish. Oh yeah. Um I mean the Americ she she mentioned, you know, with the first time she watched it, she came home after watching it with her friend, and I was kind of sad because I did want to watch this movie. Um but uh she came home and she's like so America Pereira has this really empowering speech, but that was not the one that that that really hit home.

SPEAKER_03 15:13

Because I knew it already. I was like, Yes, you're right. I get it.

SPEAKER_01 15:15

Yeah you're you're really just speaking truth to my own ears. Hopefully other people will hear it. But what was the line that that specifically got you there?

SPEAKER_02 15:25

Uh when uh Ruth Handler or aka God um talks, she says, uh as women uh as mothers, we stand still so our daughters can look back and see how far they've come.

SPEAKER_06 15:39

I can't even talk about it. It's so good. It's so good. Yeah. Yeah. It's so good.

SPEAKER_02 15:47

Ken Ken's wisdom is amazing. Like hit my favorite line of Ken's is we were only fighting because we didn't know who we were.

SPEAKER_05 15:54

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 15:55

Right. And it's like, oh yeah, well now that that now world peace. Thank you. You figured it out, Ken.

SPEAKER_04 16:00

Well, like that's another example of like how ridiculous the line is. Yeah. And how amazing the line is. Correct. It's profound so ridiculous, weird that you like how do you do that? I don't think that that could even be replicated again. Like, how do you how do you do that? Well, I just don't even know.

SPEAKER_01 16:23

Yeah, it's it's it's the lyrics uh and and just the song, the the the power ballad that is Ken. Kennergy. You know, uh it's got all the Kennergy, it's Knuff. Um but like the the whole idea that they start the song in this, you know, storming the beach in Normandy with tennis rackets and lacrostics and you know, fuzzy balls and you know, just absolute absurdity. But then when they finally get to the moment where the two of them beach each other off so hard that it becomes a like dance montage, it's a dance ballet, it's a dance ballet, it's a dream ballet, and they realize that they don't need to fight, that they can work through their res you know, like they can resolve their their issues with and it's just like, well, uh yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:14

Right. If only we were all that. Right. No, and as our as our dance uh expert, uh resident and dance expert did uh how do you feel about dance ballets and dance ballets?

SPEAKER_06 17:25

There should be more of them. Yes, there should be. There should be more of them. Dream ballets. What's the technical term? I either, I think. Uh it was and I loved it. I mean, I loved that it was all men dancing this incredible for ride and gasling dancing, hilarious. Yes. Actually very good at it. Yes. I don't know who maybe he didn't know he had it in him. Uh I loved it. I loved the dance sequence, and I also loved the dance sequence when she's like uh with the girls having girls night. Yeah, yeah. And uh isn't that when this is the first time she says you ever think about dying?

SPEAKER_04 17:55

Do you ever think about it in the middle of the dance?

SPEAKER_02 17:56

It's in the middle of the dance sequence. And I was like, oh yeah. Uh-huh. No, and I've seen uh interviews about uh this and how like they decided like Barbie's dance music had to be disco because disco makes the assumption you want to dance. Right. Right, right, right. And so it was very Bee Gees inspired song, and it's it does make you want to dance. It does. Yeah. Uh I was looking forward to going to weddings and hearing this song. Yes, yes, yes. Um, and the dance moves are real simple, but when you do them in a group, uh-huh, I was like, this is a thing I mean, I don't do line dancing, but I would learn this.

SPEAKER_01 18:32

And and we watched uh behind the scenes, one of the things I found most fascinating about that that specific dance number was that the choreographer of that one specifically pointed out that um it wasn't about being crisp and in unison, it was about knowing your body and how your body moves and doing the same dance moves, but being your own unique individual at that same time. And so that you know, as each Barbie is technically just a little bit more unique than the next, right?

SPEAKER_02 19:04

Yeah, and that bounces us back to play because not only is are these toys and the idea of play, but the fact that um uh the whole project from the get-go, they wanted everybody to channel their inner child and be free to play and to just let go and and and get silly and that energy, I mean that set had had like the best energy. Oh yeah, and they said uh that oh yeah, because everything is real, there's no CGI. Uh they like all the crew got to like build these incredible sets.

SPEAKER_06 19:37

Yes, yes, in the costumes. Oh my hassle. It was crazy. It was amazing, awesome.

SPEAKER_04 19:44

Weird Barbie.

SPEAKER_06 19:46

I love Weird Barbie and the bigger.

SPEAKER_04 19:50

Just amazing. Um, and and uh I think you know the the the Barbie that you know has been overplayed with totally, totally nailed that perfect. Yeah. Um and then the choice, the choice that um that we're gonna Birkenstock.

SPEAKER_06 20:09

The choice that that I can't don't even get me started.

SPEAKER_01 20:12

You're not even ready. Oh no, yeah, not ready. Go. All it means, all it means, Cash, is that you are already enlightened.

SPEAKER_06 20:17

Yeah, I was already enlightened. You've taken the journey. Oh my gosh. The fact that she had the choice of a high heel or a Birkenstack, um, coming from a person who has a deep and passionate love for Birgen stacks. The only shoes I wear, thank you, Birkenstack. And how many pairs do you have? I have 45 pairs of Bergenstacks. Oh my god. Uh we counted not that long ago.

SPEAKER_01 20:36

Very enlightened.

SPEAKER_06 20:37

Very enlightened, very enlightened. Specifically, the line where she's like, why would I wear high heels if my feet weren't always shaped like this? Right. Right. Why would you wear high heels if your feet weren't always shaped like that? You should be in a Bergen stack. Oh, sorry. I just I mean, the excitement. I had to buy pink ones after I saw it.

SPEAKER_01 20:57

That's fair. And then even Barbie is wearing her, she's she's rocking her. The Burgen sacks at the end.

SPEAKER_02 21:03

At the very end. They are at the road to enlightenment. They are the road to enlightenment, which I found funny because I saw like a clip of some conservative uh person talking about how his friends were anti-Barbie, and he's like, No, you guys, you didn't get it. And this is one of those things in our society where we all hear something because uh reality is the illusion of shared space. And so like we all hear it and we're like, oh yeah, but we all heard something different. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, and he he said, Well, the reason it's it it it's uh it's more conservative than you think is that um Barbie doesn't have a real choice. It's the illusion of choice, right? Because uh Weird Barbie tells her, she's like, You don't have a choice, you have to solve the problem. You can't just go back to the way it was. I was giving you uh the this this I was giving you this so you would have like this uh the illusion of control. Right. So you don't have it. Right.

SPEAKER_04 21:58

And because you can't just ignore. problem. It won't go away. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:01

You have to, you have to, you know, you have to solve it. You have to, you know, work through it. And that's not what he took away. He took away that um because you have to all women have to be feminist or it doesn't work. And all women have to want to go and have a job and nobody gets to stay home and have babies because nobody wants that. Oh and if you do want that you're wrong. And I was like, you know what I love about this? He's so adorable. He thinks we live in a society where you don't have to have two incomes. And what is this? The 1950s?

SPEAKER_01 22:30

No, I mean let's let's let's be perfectly honest. Because if you remember quarantine uh there was at least one house representative or senator who specifically said oh you know oh sure that you know this person's going to get like you know two thousand dollars that's that's a that's a that's a new car that's a that's a new kitchen. It's like what fucking kitchen is this guy building that he thinks somebody's going to renovate their fucking house for it's like you know you guys are supposed to be good with money.

SPEAKER_02 22:57

I don't understand.

SPEAKER_01 22:58

It's like clearly you have been living on a government pension for too long if you think that that's going to do shit for a like us like fucking like what is it the uh from from the Ellen show when she does the the game with Bill Gates of like how much does milk cost?

SPEAKER_04 23:13

Bill answers and then you get the real answer.

SPEAKER_02 23:16

Yeah that's awesome. Yeah yeah um yeah but it like but now that I've opened the political door um the other thing that I think is really amazing and in very like it's very inclusive. It's very you know everybody is involved in this conversation in in a in a world in which we're all canceled for speaking up when we're not supposed to be speaking because we didn't know we were supposed to not be speaking and everybody didn't get the memo and and some people should have the memo. It should be obvious and whatever. Anyway everybody's included and the best way that I think like one of the best things is like Ken is an accessory Ken has no power. He lives in a world in which Barbie runs the world all the money all of it she runs the world and he's just kind of at the at Barbie's mercy. And uh and then you go to the real world and Ken's like mind blown.

SPEAKER_04 24:07

Right.

SPEAKER_02 24:08

He's like I'm just being respected because of who I am another line where you're like oh God They asked me for the time right which was silly yeah but yeah I mean yes they're silly and there's uh a lot of uh you know dialed up but it is a lovely mirror situation in which you can it's like put yourself in this position. And then my one of my favorite monologues is uh when Barbie talks to Ken at the end and she's like you're not your house you're not your girlfriend you're not you know like Beach no you're not even beach and you're not any of it. You know you're you and as she's saying it Margaret Robbie's doing this brilliant job of at the same time you're watching her go oh I'm not my house I'm not this like she's coming to the same epiphany as she's saying it in front of Ken and it's like no we there's something deeper there's something more to you than your stuff and your status and who you're with right and it's just so profound it's like wow right maybe it's Barbie and it's Ken.

SPEAKER_06 25:25

Uh-huh right amen I mean yeah you gotta love yourself before you can be loved and you should you know make an effort to know who you are so right so they're listener I'd like to talk to the costume department uh and try to understand or wonder how many other brands of shoes did they go through before they decided on a Birkenstock or was Birkenstock always the number one choice as it always should be well you can reach out to Jacqueline Duran. Okay um because it was so brilliant um so I'm just I would just be curious about that I would be curious like is Birkenstock the road to enlightenment or did you have to try so many other things first? That's what I'd like I was just curious.

SPEAKER_01 26:20

I think you know I I would have to say you'd you'd have to come up with something that is current right iconic um and not a heel and and not a heel and so you know you really I I I guess that narrows the pool. It really does. While I love my Converse I don't necessarily think that that is um like you know something where you'd be like oh this is like an enlightened and relaxed and groovy I mean you're you're Converse was like the the hip thing in the 80s maybe the 90s but like I I think that you know just the the idea of a Birkenstock and what Birkenstocks are yeah I think they are iconic enough and relaxed and groovy enough that that was the now you should get another pair.

SPEAKER_02 27:04

Okay they should send it to my for this free advertising by cinema brought to you by Birkenstock oh my goodness oh my god it would be my happiest day ours too yeah yeah yeah she become the full four full-time fourth member of yeah right it'd be Lia's Leon I can't even say liaison liaison liaison yeah yes filmmaker and Birkenstock liaison yes brand ambassador I'll take it oh that would be nice you know another thing like if you're looking at Barbie uh from your childhood um I remember uh it was not my favorite I don't have like a childhood passionate memory but I do remember we had the Barbie dollhouse and it had an elevator and that was very important that it had an elevator you had the dollhouse yeah we were spoiled and um we also had like I remember really really wanting a brunette Barbie like that was you know I mean because Princess Leia is you know awesome and I thought like brunettes were better and um yeah and there weren't really any brunette Barbies and so like when there was one I was like that's the one I want I want the one with the brown hair because it's so cool because they're all blonde and now my girls have like 800 Barbies. And initially I was not on board with it because I was like I don't know it's a lot of superficial like clothes and accessories. I know small motor skills are good but I don't know how I feel about what I'm handing to them and like having them look like what is that really saying and then it's like oh my God these dolls they come in every shape size color I have brought some for them to look you know for our guests to look at because I'm just like Barbie has come a long way. Oh there's some really gorgeous representations of all women and yes I also brought out the mermaid that's our John Cena doll.

SPEAKER_01 28:58

Yeah but it's not actually the John Cena doll but it's the merman I'd be like she brought that out and I immediately said oh how about a Brewski for my big thirsty man yeah is this in the Barbie line?

SPEAKER_02 29:09

Yes yeah get out of here the secret reveal um uh bar uh Barbie mermaid series and that is the the only male I think oh there's an entire movie there's a movie and yeah and he's not the only um there's a little there's a boy mermaid because they have skipper like or not skipper uh Chelsea Chelsea Aplenty my kids have like a bucket of Chelsea oh um but it but they were so excited sister they were so excited to have like a little boy even though he's a mer boy not a mer like man he's a mer boy a moy yeah because they were like oh something different you know someone to have a conversation with yeah yeah um and like the tails come out and they're like combs no you're not that one but his is definitely I think his comes out um it's crazy I know um I I do have one complaint with for Mattel uh oh um dear Mattel dear Mattel um there is a friend of Barbie's I can't remember her name not mid Cozy or paisy or something anyway she's she's over in the basket of things and she is uh very she's got pink hair oh yeah super cool she's uh a girl with curves she's a bigger girl and that is amazing could she have more than one outfit and could it not all be like a moo moo like dude yeah that is that is really sad that they don't have more oh more dolls like clothing like she's she's great and the girls loved her but the problem is is like they'll try to change her and do Barbie things and it'll work.

SPEAKER_06 30:43

No did she come with her accessories?

SPEAKER_02 30:44

She came with one outfit but like like basically a poncho and you're like dude yeah sadly she should probably come with a number of like sell with some articles if you had kids who like that doll we would sell so much if you could give her her own line. Yeah of I'm so proud of her thighs. Right? They're real they're real thighs. I mean they still don't touch she probably does not have back issues. Right no right right exactly she has all realistic boobs she's proportioned. Yeah well and they've gotten better on that too oh have they they've taken it down a notch there's no uh what is the what is it growing up Skipper or what Skipper better the one in the that was torn like the one of the things about the movie that is fascinating to me is the discontinued line of dolls that you find out are real because you don't believe them necessarily and then you see in the credits they show the real version of the doll. Oh yeah and you're like holy crap like sugar daddy really with the earring no no no no no no no no it's not sugar daddy it's sugar's daddy because you gotta remember the dog is named sugar and he is sugar's daddy he's a so you don't say it's sugar daddy it's sugar's daddy right right yeah no that was totally meant not that way at all what what what what year did you or like we we found that uh because it's in the credits it says wasn't it like 26 it was after 2009 or something yeah it was something like that so with the term sugar daddy had already been oh yes yeah no that was bad yeah and this is this is where uh Mattel had suffered uh where uh I think a lot of us were like God she may have a job in every profession but why does she always dress like a hooker? Like seriously give her some real clothes and I am very proud that the doctor wears scrubs now that she has like scrubs and the coat and you're like you look like a doctor right not like you're playing doctor.

SPEAKER_00 32:42

Can I get a cliche pen and a sharp thing?

SPEAKER_04 32:45

Yeah I can do an epidectomy no I talk to a doctor I am a doctor no maybe we should take a moment and imbibe more after this okay hey there listener this is Michael with imbibe cinema and the Blue Whiskey Independent Film Festival did you know that imbibe cinema isn't just a podcast? We've also got a variety of articles and reviews available to read on our website plus a streaming membership that gives you access to a new batch of independent films every month. Become an Imbibe Cinema member today at watch dot imbibesinema That's watch dot imbibescinema dot com. Thanks for supporting and imbibing the various content we offer.

SPEAKER_01 33:39

Now back to the show welcome back and we are continuing to discuss Greta Wiggs Barbie. Enjoy this podcast please subscribe or follow us on all of your favorite podcast providers to get new episodes as soon as we release them. Rate and leave us a review to help our show reach a larger audience you can also follow Imbibe Cinema on Facebook Twitter and the Instagram all right I I have switched up to bourbon because there just was not enough of the Froze oh fair why is the frosé gone um we switched to tea yeah somebody's gotta drive home that's right I've got my my second drink and tea so I'm I'm double fisting yep has about a fr uh frosé and warm tea that hot actual tea it's quite good. Isn't that good?

SPEAKER_02 34:30

Mm-hmm very good thank you thank you thank you Catherine so wait this was from Catherine to Trisha and now I'm in bibing and that is how the world works that's all work together just like this movie land yes yeah you would you would think that a a a construction site at lunchtime would be a small place for femininity I was really no oh yeah speaking of that like the lines where it she's like I'm I I I don't understand how what the word I don't have a word for it it's like I'm conscious but it's like of myself right or there's a an entendre which I think might be double right right no no line is thrown away in this entire no no yeah amazingly well written uh and again that that is uh uh Greta and uh Noah Baumbach uh and the fact that they apparently wrote this for the most part during their quarantine and then they had a baby like they had a yeah yeah so like a quarantine goodness no they didn't yeah I I think around that time. I don't recall I mean I wasn't there I don't know but like I heard I heard there was a like that that had happened around that time. I obviously please fact check me I have no idea but um that being said if you do have a newborn then God bless them they wrote an incredible script and they had no sleep I'm sure right and the child is still living so that's amazing like people can't do that. That's crazy. Ladybird she got nominated for best director for Lady Bird if I am correct.

SPEAKER_04 36:18

Michael is nodding she would then be the uh fifth woman to be nominated for best director in the history of the Oscars fifth woman to be nominated wouldn't fly in Barbie land no no no no no no and uh and then this isn't even her baby this is Margot's thing like no sorry now I slitch I I know what I didn't talk about like she slitched she is these these frosets are good I really can't have wine in any form shape or um basically what I'm trying to say is this project was Margot Robbie's project this was her baby she doesn't have credit growings baby weird serrogate shit going on not that that's that there's nothing wrong with that right right that is not what's happening no no but obviously I have I have there was a lot that I don't know so all right so yes uh uh in 2018 she was nominated for best director as well as best original screenplay for Ladybird she was also nominated for best adapted screenplay uh for little women in 2020 uh those are the Oscars there's uh a number of British academy uh nominations as well as critic's choice including uh though she also won the critic's choice for best adapted screenplay for little women yes now there are great performances and normally I I I like to you know focus on that aspect uh and uh Margot Robbie is amazing in this film amazing and everybody I mean we've talked about like during the break we were giving more credit to Ryan Gosling yeah he's just brilliant uh they're all I mean it down to like the smallest parts everybody brought just amazing and uh and so yes there should be many nominations in this film's future yes I'm talking directly to the Academy because I know they listen to me uh speaking of just casting like um so the the the narrator uh having Helen Miren yes be the narrator fantastic um so many wonderful moments um in the narration um I know Catherine you w what was the the line that you really liked?

SPEAKER_06 38:49

No to the filmmaker Margot Robbie is the wrong person to cast if you're trying to make this point.

SPEAKER_01 38:54

Yes and it's when she specifically says I'm not beautiful anymore. Yeah right I wonder did did Margo know that was going to happen going into like when performing that scene that this was going to be whether it was actually in the screen or if it was or if it was a moment where we were like we need to comment on I mean you're you you're not wrong in the sense that like Helen Miran and the the the narration does take a very prominent uh pace uh in in the first act and then it disappears for a time. Yep yeah so it's not really until that that quick hit I mean she does intersperse occasionally I I almost feel like I need to watch it a third or fourth time now okay but uh I I will uh believe me uh we're getting to the point where the girls might actually watch it it also the opening song also plays into the narration because there are moments when the song oh you good like in the song uh as Barbie's getting ready for the day um I thought it was oh yeah yes and that's Lizo yeah it's awesome you you good okay and then continues the song and how it's different the second time right oh yes where it starts to go off I don't remember what it pink initially stands for the song's called pink and um I think it's like never sad as N and K is cool and then it switches in the second one P stands for panic and I is I'm scared and and N is nauseous and K is death and you're like wait a minute what? Yeah pretty intelligent never sad and K is cool and then speaking of just the the the music the Billy Eilish song what was that and the fact that that plays pretty much whether it's whether it's just the the the chord progression and the underscore of it that happens to play every time that that Barbie is having a philosophical moment it's when she's on the park bench and she's watching existential Barbie comes into mind.

SPEAKER_02 41:02

Yes yes yes suicidal thoughts Barbie right no it's like and because that's a the one of the things is did depression Barbie yes it's like she like stalks her best her ex her former strange best friend online she uh eats a entire bag of Skittle yes yes and she watches the Colin Firth version of Ryan Prejudice Prejudice yeah antidepressant sold separately yeah so good there's cellulite Barbie yes so good so good and then the the the average average is like uh ordinary Barbie ordinary Barbie she could be a mom or maybe she's not a mom or maybe she has a job maybe she doesn't maybe she has a job and she's a mom maybe she doesn't really matter.

SPEAKER_03 41:47

But she really just she has a flattering top flattering to get through the dentum feeling somewhat good about herself.

SPEAKER_02 41:53

Yes that is a terrible idea that's gonna make a lot of money oh really oh we haven't talked about Will Farrell we've also even talked about Alan Michael Sarah first of all I love Michael Sarah many deeply uh but his delivery of There's no multiples of Alan I'm a little bit confused about that and then we just we don't know why we don't know or or Alan and I will give all the kids foot rubs no I do not like I do not enjoy being that he tries to leave me and they're like no no you can't go you can't leave nobody will notice it's happened before in sync all Alan yes yes even in once they've learned once they figure out how to build that wall horizontally Michael Michael Sarah his delivery is fantastic his portrayal of Alan is amazing yeah and I didn't even know again that an Alan doll is real I didn't know that Alan was a real doll or is I don't even know but Ken needed a buddy yeah right and he's a ginger and he's a gingerly ginger in all the ways that you see Barbie today uh Mattel noted na na redheads so Will Farrell I I was thinking about Alan because no no because Alan's amazing oh and midge speaking of people you didn't know were real midge um oh yeah in the film or no because I mean they're redheads in the film but doesn't matter um that not the point um uh the uh the doll at the end I think it took the second viewing in the credits where I saw that midge's stomach comes off and there's a fetus inside yeah and you're like oh yeah that's in the credits that's you can you can you can have a delivery again the the the the the most amazing thing about the production design and and and and Greta really you know letting Sarah Greenwood and like all all of these people who were on uh the artistic design like she really just released them and this is again

SPEAKER_01 44:00

And where, you know, I think during the break was when we were kind of talking about the fact that like Will Farrell noted if Mattel had read the script, they would never have let this happen. Um everything, everything in that film is historically accurate. They threw every real character, real horrible design flaw in there to make fun of it.

SPEAKER_02 44:25

We've had two female CEOs, one in the 90s and one at another time that I cannot remember.

SPEAKER_01 44:30

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 44:31

Right? And that's true. The executives at Mattel, there are 11 that I saw in my Google search. I deep searched on Google. You know, it's not like I wrote a paper. Um, but they they uh it their executives, there were eleven uh uh of the uh high-level executives of the corporation for our women. Okay, currently. Currently. So, you know, baby steps. Yeah, you know, like like we tell Ken, you know, circular court judge. Sorry, circle court judge. It's when you're doing court in the round. But yeah, no, you don't get you don't get a Supreme Court seat right off the bat. You have to work because women have to.

SPEAKER_01 45:09

And and my personal favorite is Helen Mirren saying, and one day the Kens will have as much power in Barbie land as women have in the real world.

SPEAKER_02 45:20

But also, like we all spoke during the break about people uh not liking this film and thinking that it was very anti uh you know, angry man. And I think it's very interesting how feminism in general is there's the they talk about stigma, right? And stigma for many things in this world have like a negative, and like feminists are all supposed to be very angry. And I can I can totally get why you would be angry, but that's not that's not what right this is. Yeah, it's not. It's not, no. Well, and it's about like self-worth, the film uh and and like Margot Robbie's speech preceding America Ferrer's speech, where she talks about how I'm not a nuclear physicist, I'm not a I don't know how to fly a plane, I'm not a Supreme Court justice, I'm not President Barbie, I'm just Barbie. I'm not I'm not good enough to do any of those things. And I think a lot of us feel like that, where it's like I should be this big success and I'm not, so I I have like less worth than, and that's that's not the case.

SPEAKER_01 46:21

Yeah. Everyone is important, everyone moves the ball forward.

SPEAKER_02 46:26

And when we work together, many hands light work, folks.

SPEAKER_05 46:30

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 46:30

Besides the um Stanley Kubrick references, um, there's uh classic Hollywood is referenced in in different ways, or there's a nod to them. For instance, uh the travel between Barvey land and the real world is a series of transportation vehicles, and all of that is uh live, none of that is CGI. And how they did that is they had a series of like treadmills and they had like three levels of speed of different items. So like there's obviously there's the outer space one, and there's the the boat, and uh so yeah, but all of it was there on a set, and there are their crew members moving things, and that is something from the silent film era. Uh and then they also uh the dream ballet, we talked about the dream ballet. Yes, yeah. Um there uh they referenced how like there this used to be a thing that was very popular in musicals like Oklahoma, um, for example. Um, but I just think of singing in the rain. Yeah, that's the one I remember. Yeah and then they referenced how the the way they painted the background in the dream dance ballet. I guess dance ballet is redundant, isn't it? Um No Thank you. You're welcome. The background is uh painted to be like the the Singing in the Rain version, which is like oh good, because that's the first thing that comes to my mind is that whole sequence.

SPEAKER_01 47:53

Which is funny because actually Grease is the first thing that came to my mind. And mainly because of the fact that they yeah, you heard me. This is the bourbon and the frose. This is the why we imbibe. Um, no, the uh Greece specifically comes to my mind because of the fact that when Ken is in Century City, he is getting all these, he's getting inundated with all these uh male influences, male influences and and flashes of masculinity, and there is the scene from Greece.

SPEAKER_06 48:24

Yeah, yeah, Grease lightning. Right, yeah, and Rocky. Rocky's a big thing because the when they're traveling from Barbie land to the real world on the snowmobile, the boat, the astronaut, are those actual Barbie toys that exist?

SPEAKER_00 48:41

Oh like was there a snowmobile?

SPEAKER_06 48:43

Was is there a spaceship? Is there a feel like the the like the the the trailer, the camping trailer?

SPEAKER_02 48:49

That's gotta be a that is definitely okay. Oh, we had that.

SPEAKER_01 48:53

Barbie snowmobile. Oh, there you go, gentlemen. There it is. There it is. That's a fast Google right there. Uh do we want to talk about Mark Ronson's I'm Just Ken?

SPEAKER_02 49:05

And I think initially it was supposed to be like this number they kind of wrote to throw in somewhere, and then it became like this 11-minute huge war, battle, dance production. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:18

I'm just kidding. Any uh hold on, I actually pulled this up. Be a ten. Uh songs are catchy. Because I'm just Ken anywhere else, I'd be a 10. Is it my destiny to live and die a life of blonde fragility? I'm just Ken, where I see love, she sees a friend. What will it take for her to see the man behind the tan and fight for me?

SPEAKER_02 49:45

Oh yeah, and that's another line where America's like they're they're gonna deprogram the brainwash Barbie's. Yes. Right. And uh America's like freshening up Barbie's makeup so she can go and and uh uh pretend like with Ken that she's interested in Ken. And she goes, uh, like as she's like, Do you know he's he was really mad? I don't know if he like still likes me. And America's like, no, he still likes you. That's why he was so upset. And and she goes, I but I don't want to hurt him. And she goes, Yeah, he took your house, he brainwashed your friends. He didn't like and it's like wow, this could be a speech applied to several people who have a bad breakup. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 50:29

Right. Bad breakup.

SPEAKER_02 50:30

It's like I don't want to hurt him. Well, he took your house, he brainwashed your friends. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_06 50:37

In that scene, I have another note for the costume design. Not a note, just an applause, really. And is that a real Chanel purse that she's carrying? Like, can people buy that out there in the world when she's getting ready to go seduce Ken? She's got Chanel beads on in a Barbie style, and then she's got this pink heart Chanel purse. Where where is the how cute is that? Right? Like these costumes are unbelievable in that room.

SPEAKER_02 51:03

Oh my god, that is the necklace that when you're a kid, you're like, that's the one you want because it's got all the colors. Yep. It has all the colors. So big and sparkling. Yes, yes, and and that was one of the things that Greta talked about, how like she would have to like choose the right pinks and the right this and that, and she's like, and I had to like shut off the adult and be like, what did I want when I was a kid? Yes, like what was pretty, yeah. And the necklace, so that totally I she they nailed the necklace. I was like, I would totally want that necklace.

SPEAKER_01 51:30

Overly large.

SPEAKER_06 51:32

It was yeah, like the milk curtain.

SPEAKER_01 51:34

Oh, yes. Yes. I I honestly the the from a production design standpoint, and I uh they they they showed it in the like behind the scenes, but like the fact that the refrigerator, half of it is practical, half of it is decal. Yes, like just how how delightful, how brilliant, how playful, how you know. I mean, like they really did just let their own childhoods come to light.

SPEAKER_02 52:01

Right, and they had to like make up the rules like how fast does a Barbie car move if it's in motion, seven miles an hour. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:10

So poke the bear. Michael now reads bad reviews, and then we will um give our feedback to that individual.

SPEAKER_04 52:19

Got it. Right, right just like your reaction to what somebody else got out of the movie that was totally didn't give up for movie.

SPEAKER_06 52:26

Got it.

SPEAKER_04 52:27

All right, so Scarlett Harris uh says if Barbie wa if Barbie were made 15 or even 10 years ago, I would have eaten it up like a perfectly toasted waffle with a dollop of cream, instead being feminist blamed about the patriarchy and gender inequality every five minutes just soured me to it.

SPEAKER_01 52:50

I I I don't think that there was any spoon feeding of gender inequality. I don't really feel like it was being beaten over the head with it. No, I think it was a uh a perfect story in the sense that it flips the mirror in a way that we need to look at ourselves as human beings and realize that maybe maybe we can all be better.

SPEAKER_04 53:15

What I find it really interesting about this one is if Barbie were made 15 or even 10 years ago, I would have eaten it up. This is less about the movie and more about the reviewer. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:27

You think there's a lot, there's been a movement. Uh I mean, uh politically, uh 2016, uh there was like there's, you know, people had hats. There's been a lot more talk about something that uh had kind of we had kind of backslid, I think, in as a society about uh equality in gender. And this and then gender in general uh right now is very, you know, because we're all concerned about our bathrooms and whatnot. If cerebral palsy or um cancer or something was like the thing that we're all talking about, and they're like, I'm so over cancer. That was like 15 years ago I'd be on board fighting cancer, but now I'm like, why do we fight cancer? I mean, come on. Like it's just like you seem like maybe you're burnt out on this topic because you've heard it a lot. I get it. It doesn't make it less worth talking about because it's still a problem.

SPEAKER_04 54:16

Yeah. All right, and the last one I'll leave you with, which I find to be a real head scratcher. Um, this is Saporta Report. I've know I have referenced them before. Okay. Um, this is real brief. Barbie is, at best, half a movie.

SPEAKER_02 54:32

Yeah. What? Well, they do make you think, huh?

SPEAKER_04 54:36

Like, did they fall asleep for half the movie? It's possible they when I fell asleep during Rogue One and woke up at the very, very end when everything was going sideways. I was very confused. Yeah, that's fair. And you felt like you saw how I felt like I saw maybe an eighth of a movie, because that's what I saw.

SPEAKER_02 54:58

Maybe they thought it should be longer, like it should be like a three-hour Oppenheimer kind of thing.

SPEAKER_04 55:03

Maybe Oppenheimer. Um Barbie was better than Oppenheimer. That's all I have to say. Ooh.

SPEAKER_06 55:11

Yeah, agreed.

SPEAKER_01 55:15

All right. Well, well, we greatly appreciate all of our listeners for choosing this podcast and for supporting independent film. So keep on ear. Keep an ear. Keep on your ears. Keep on, keep keep ears, keep, keep ears. Keep ears. Don't don't do a van Gogh. Keep an ear out for our next podcast. Uh, to check out our show notes or drop us a note, visit imbibesinema.com. I'm Jonathan C. Leggett, and thanks again for imbibing with us.

SPEAKER_06 55:48

You're so welcome.