Your Brain On Vinyl - One reason why we like Music on Vinyl

Scott And KJ Talk about how vinyl makes us feel - and specific examples of genuine emotional reactions.  These reactions might help explain why music on vinyl makes us happy.  Several references to Oliver Sachs' book Musicophelia.   


Making a record of your own? Your music deserves the best.
Learn more about Masterdisk here.

Support The Oddysy here.

Mentioned :
Musicophelia By Oliver Sachs

Nonesuch records
Teresa Sterne



Music heard :
Artist - Herbie Hancock
Song -  New York Minute
listen on Spotify :  Click to hear full song on Spotify 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:16

Hello everyone and welcome to Making Vinyl at MasterDisc. I'm Scott Hall, the owner and chief engineer at MasterDisc in New York, where we make master records for artists from all around the world. And we've got plans for another podcast today with my regular co-host, KJ from the Odyssey. Hello, hello. Hey man. Um so we're gonna dive right into something what that I find really interesting. So if uh the full listeners, if um if you want to get really down and deep into why we like records and some of the reasons why I think we like records, and some of the um soft science maybe that's even behind why we like records. I had a client ask me the other day um about why they felt a certain way after listening to a record. And it got me thinking and got me putting pieces of puzzles together and uh including some reading and some other things that I've I've talked to other people about. And it's a really fascinating topic to me of of how we uh how we uh interact with our records and um um some of the ways that literally our our brain reacts to the music. And so we're gonna get we're not not brain scientists, but we're gonna pretend we are today.

SPEAKER_02 1:43

Yeah, I I'm uh I can see you putting on your white lab coat and uh the stethoscope around your your neck. I feel totally comfortable with your medical authority right now.

SPEAKER_00 1:55

Well, I I I did more than just watch a YouTube video. I actually read a book. Wow. I would highly recommend it. I'll mention it again at the end, but um Musicophilia, it was written by um uh it's called uh Tales of the Music in the Brain. Dr. Sachs, uh Oliver Sachs wrote this book, and it's it's it's just fascinating.

SPEAKER_02 2:21

Um of the we're gonna we're gonna throw up a link to that um on social and and all that kind of stuff so you guys can check it out.

SPEAKER_00 2:28

It's one of the best, like um bestseller, and there was uh there's thousands of used books in the market. So even if you're only slightly curious, it's a it's a really good uh it's a really good starting point. Now he goes into gr really great detail about the ways that therapists use music and you know what earworms are and and how catchy tune won't leave our brain, and how different parts of our brain um react to music and how um some music compels us to dance and and uh how um there's some connection to our body functions, our our heart and our and the rhythms of our body are connected to uh music and how slower tempo music will uh affect us in one way and up up tempo music will affect us in another way. And we we we sort of, as musicians and songwriters and producers, we all kind of understand this and and believe all this. But so there's some fascinating details that um I that I think are at some of the roots as to why vinyl is better.

SPEAKER_02 3:34

Um a bold assertion by by Dr. Hull. The whole truth and nothing but the truth. That's right, from the incredible hull.

SPEAKER_00 3:44

Oh boy, we're pawing it up today.

SPEAKER_02 3:47

It must be a special episode.

SPEAKER_00 3:50

So um uh let me get kind of right down to it. Um this is my theory, which is mine. Um uh and so don't hate me for my theory. You know, it's it's the magic of it is it can't be proven right and it probably can't be proven wrong either. So um it's a it's a it's a simple hypothesis, but taken from uh accidental clinical trials in my mastering studio over the years, what I've noticed is that people without cause, without any predisposition, will find themselves having a different sort of reaction to music when it's being played back off a vinyl than when it's being played back off of a really clean, perfect digital copy of the same music. And uh I I had a recent conversation with someone who's very dedicated and very committed to high-resolution digital. Um very much so, some of exploring the brave new world of of extremely high definition digital audio. And they had a uh spontaneous reaction in my mastering room after listening to something that we'd been working on all day and that they had been working on for months, off working off of the digital, the super audio CD it's it's high as it goes, sample rate. Then I made a a cut of a of from their extremely high resolution file directly off their computer onto the com onto the to the lacquer, and then I played it back for them and we got through the side and without even really thinking about it, it felt like it was a really very honest uh assessment. Um my client said, you know, I I really felt like I enjoyed the music, maybe more so maybe for the first time. And uh I'll you know relate that to conversations that we had years ago when people somehow magically felt like they expressed it as it felt like it was a record. It felt it felt like it was finished, and somehow having it on a reference lacquer uh you know at the end of the process made it feel like a record. So I'm compelled to try to figure out why, you know, what that is and and why that is. And uh I'll if I haven't put you all to sleep, I'll I'll I'll try to uh I'll try to answer that question. No.

SPEAKER_02 6:11

Um what what was hard? Come on, come back, come back. What were you uh what were you listening to, out of curiosity?

SPEAKER_00 6:19

This particular uh project?

SPEAKER_02 6:21

Uh yeah, yeah. When I mean when this person had the breakthrough.

SPEAKER_00 6:24

It is a high-resolution recording of uh Patricia Barber, a uh very well-known, very profound and deep solo vocalist singer, you know, in in jazz settings and and in semi-classical settings. But this is a um principally a uh uh a um small format jazz record, quintet quor quartet quintet kind of thing with her voice. And very simply, but it had been it's one of the first recordings, some of the first recordings ever that the entire multi-track and the entire process was done at this really high um sample rate. Um DXD, it's called. It's it's extremely high super audio CD. I won't bore because it's an analog audience, I won't bore you with the technical details. So you can go you can all go find find that.

SPEAKER_02 7:13

Um suffice it to say it sounds really, really, really, really good.

SPEAKER_00 7:17

Well, it's it gets closer and closer and closer to the you know being there, you know, to the sound of the of the the output of the recording, the mixing desk of the you know, the analog sound. And to some it it exceeds that, to others it doesn't, but that's that really not part of the debate or part of the discussion. So um w what it seems to me, if we don't mind me diving right in, what it seems to me is that there's there's sort of a technical or analytical side of the brain. And in this case, um this engineer was was um trained over years of experience to be very technical and kind of remove themselves from the emotional content of the music for a a as needed, not permanently, but just as needed, to make you know clinical decisions about the music. Was the vocal loud enough? Was that snare too bright? You know, all these kind of decisions that uh engineer producer types you know have to make on a regular basis. And I believe that there's a um a portion of the brain that uh is busy trying to solve those problems. Um and it it come in. Let me let the UPS go. No problem.

SPEAKER_02 8:37

Totally permitted. Okay, so you were uh well if you could pick up your train of thought.

SPEAKER_00 8:41

Well, this analog, this technical side of the brain is trying to solve problems. It's listening for mixed problems, it's listening for balance issues, it's listening technically. Um, not in a way that a typical, you know, music appreciation type person would listen to um uh music. They would just be letting it kind of waft over them and and they might enjoy even some of the irregularities. They might even enjoy it might actually inspire them that there's some you know tone or intonation changes. So all right, so I'm getting I'm getting off topic, but um the analytical brains one one part of it. And I found that I can't really feel the the music while I'm analyzing the music. And okay, we we get good at it, we practice it all the time, but the magic for me happens when I somehow can turn off the analyzer and just let the music talk to me.

unknown 9:40

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 9:40

And just let my just and I actually have to kind of my analyzing brain has to kind of step back and try to analyze my creative brain and figure out what it's listening to and why I know this sounds really dopey, but um, no, it's it's it's just like performance.

SPEAKER_02 9:57

I mean, you you know, you shut off the the analytical part and feel and create. I mean, this is this is part of your job, right?

SPEAKER_00 10:03

Yeah, uh, but and I really feel like there's a moment um when I'm outside of that technical realm and I'm able to make absolutely crystal clear decisions about taste, uh, quality, qualitative analysis, um without any concern, without the interruption of my analytical mind. And I bet I'll bet that the record noise, um, the surface noise and the ticks and pops and things that are subtle and usually tucked away back into music, but I I bet our technical brain is busy trying to sort all those things out and trying to decide, you know, trying uh because every one of those little sporadic clicks and pops represents a potential um localization uh cue to our brain. All right, so it's back up to a back out to a slightly different topic. Our brain uses time delay information uh processed by our two ears to tell us where an object is in a 3D space. And the shape of our ear, the shape of our ear canal can tell us if something's in front of us or in back of us or above us or below us. Um and we do it magically, we don't even really have to think about it. But every time a you know, the sound of a stick cracking, or you know, a little crack or a snap or a pop happens, uh coming out of one speaker or another, the brain goes uh subconsciously into process mode. Like, where did that click come from?

SPEAKER_02 11:30

Right. Is it is a danger? Does it mean something to me? Is it vital information that I have to process? Exactly. Exactly. It feels like uh, you know, some evolutionary psychology to me. You know, like our lizard brains, you know, had to get used to, you know, maybe that click is a you know a stick that a uh a predator stepped on before, you know, before chucking a spear at our heads or something, you know, and fast forward, you know, the millennia, and here we are just you know, we hear a click and and all of a sudden the lights go up.

SPEAKER_00 11:58

Yeah, and I think um even today's human can react to that by being engrossed in something, uh, whether it's a a reading or a book or something to listen to on headphones, and um there's a startling sound or startling, you know, something uh um enters their field of vision that they're not expecting. And the amount of anxiety and adrenaline that courses through you in that you know brief instance tells you that that's something that our body, our brains thinks is really important for us to know. Sure. To activate our flight response as quickly as possible. Um and you know, um heart rate up and and adrenaline and everything. All right, so bring that all the way down to the click level. I think that there's something going on with this record surface noise that frees our creative side of our mind to be able to really appreciate what's in the grooves. And um, you know, while like I said, it's while it can be, you know, it can't really be proven, and I don't think it can be disproven either. So it's um um it's maybe an ideal theory.

SPEAKER_02 13:04

Yeah, seriously. Um so uh so what you're saying, you're looking at the sort of inherent, you know, natural noise of of the vinyl format as positive, as a as sort of a pacifier for the intellectual side of the brain, so the creative side can enjoy what it's listening to. Is that what you're saying?

SPEAKER_00 13:23

Yeah, that's that's pretty much it on a simple sort of level. But the um when you hear people talk about what they like about vinyl, they'll they'll say things like, I feel like I can reach into the music better, like they can hear more detail. It feels like they can um hear the sound stage, they can, you know, they can hear the this sort of the stereo imaging better from side to side. Um, but even beyond the sort of technical reactions, you you know, we just can't deny the fact that lots and lots of people, when placed in a situation where they can hear a good record over a good set of speakers in a reasonably quiet room, routinely go, Oh my god, yeah. Why is this so different? Why am I feeling so different about this music? Um so there's there's there's something there. Um, and I think our analysis of the sound quality of the uh analysis uh I think our analysis falls short when we just look at, well, what's the frequency response, what's the time delay response, what's the interchannel distortion, you know, what's w what are the uh you know, if we measure all those things, it still doesn't come up to a uh convincing argument.

SPEAKER_02 14:32

Yeah, no, you you're talking you're talking about you know using uh using audio production as a creative medium to communicate uh you know something, uh a larger message, a broader, a broader message to the listener.

SPEAKER_00 14:46

Sure. And that that message uh it just feels more profound, it feels more complete. Uh, you know, that doesn't mean that listening to a digital stream doesn't make you uh energized and excited. And I and I do believe that you have to be a little predisposed to the idea. Um I I've I've I've certainly seen people that are you know come into the situation knowing that they hate vinyl and will listen to it and go, like, yeah, it's still got those clicks and pops and that drove me nuts 20 years ago, and I still hate it. Right. So there's a belief factor, it's even better theory. You have to believe in it to to make it work.

SPEAKER_02 15:21

Well, I I think that's true with with so many things. I mean, you you have to there's a there's a a bit of faith, a leap of faith that you take in order to open yourself up to something creative. I think that um it it seems to me that, you know, if you sit down uh, you know, with a if you go through the business, let's say, of putting on a you know a vinyl record, or if you're if you sit down and you know you're listening to a super high quality recording and you're in the right environment and you're in the right headspace, you know, your your mind is going to be open, your ears are gonna be open to hearing things that you know were that weren't there for you before and perhaps surprise and delight you, um, which is what's so great about music, you know, especially listening, you know, re-listening over and over again. So many layers um to this thing. And and the opposite end of the spectrum, of course, is you know, walking around in the city with cheap Apple earbuds in your ears, listening to, you know, shitty Spotify resolution and um, you know, the a bus rolls by or you know, somebody, you know, cuts you off or or something like that. I mean, you're you're not you're not in the right headspace, you're not ready to receive.

SPEAKER_00 16:53

That's a really, really, really different environment to to to listen to. And and uh I think the the listeners of the podcast kind of get that. Um I'm giving everyone um possible explanation uh as to you know why they appreciate vinyl. Um and and in some sense, uh even an understanding of why the people who think um vinyl isn't the greatest resolution and why it that it it has its inherent flaws, why there's room for you know for both opinions, and both opinions can actually be right.

SPEAKER_02 17:25

Um I you know, I've always thought that the the fact that maybe it's not the best, the you know, the best of the best of the best is what makes it great. You know, I mean I I'm I'm really not all that interested in perfection. I'm interested in personality and creativity and not you know flaws in all.

SPEAKER_00 17:39

So I I've got a couple I agree. I've got a couple uh quick stories. Um I've told a couple of them before, so uh I don't think I don't think in this space, but um uh in some of my writing. Um uh so some of you might recognize the story. But um I was a young master in engineer assisting Bob Ludwig and at MasterDisc um back in the uh mid-80s, and a um producer of classical music, Tracy Stern, was still alive, and at that time uh she had produced multitudes, hundreds of of very well-received classical albums. She had had a long career um as a producer, and was um brought back by Nunsuch to oversee the translation of her music, uh the music that she produced, um, to digital. So she was sort of a de facto um uh executive producer, or you know, uh uh producer of the of the digital digital product. Well, supervisor, supervisor is what I was looking for. She was she was gonna um analyze the work that um that Bob had done and compare it to what she knew and make sure that it was that the digital was going to be true to the uh to the original uh vinyl. Um let me preface this. Um this is after the first wave of digital projects came out, and there was some pushback from the uh uh consumers that the early digital stuff didn't sound good. So do you remember what year this was around? Well, this was um no later than 88. Okay. So this was probably 87, 88. Um what Nunsuch was always very concerned with quality and not so much with um just banging it out of as a commercial product, um the you know, amongst many other labels, but they they were um they were very concerned about it being right, and that's why they they brought back the original producer to supervise it and not just transfer the tapes um you know in a default format. Sure. But what what made the story interesting was that she kept four or five, six projects um along into this, and she kept um uh sending them back, saying they weren't right. And Bob would go back to the tape and was very diligent about you know, double checking his notes and double-checking the alignment of the tape, and even taped the check that the tape machine hadn't fallen off out of spec, and we measured the console with frequency response runs. And we you know, we had he trusted her ability to tell the difference between good and bad, um, because they had produced you know many records together. And um, but she was she was getting old, so there was a question about whether she was hearing as well as she had been, but there was still a still a trust. Certainly they weren't dismissing her. So we even sent um a digital tape machine with a high-resolution file, you know, to her apartment so that she could listen, you know, um uh on, you know, we were afraid that maybe the CD player or the headphones weren't right. So we sent her a dApp machine and and she came back with the same results. It just doesn't feel right. And when pressed with why, she said, Well, it feels kind of like it's kind of mono, like the stuff is not as spread as wide as it was, and it just doesn't. I remember feeling emotional when I listened to this music, and now I wasn't feeling as emotional. I see. And so that's what she said. Yeah, yeah, that's what she said. Okay, and it was driving, uh frankly, driving the rest of us kind of nuts, and the label really wanted to push these projects along, but they also wanted to do the right thing and uh to to treat her properly. Um Bob got a thought. You know, he's sat there thinking, well, what's the difference? Uh she's listening to a record, and then she's listening to a transfer of that record, and to his ear they sounded the same. Um, and he's like, What's the difference? Well, the only difference is record noise and surface noise. So he said, You know what, it's worth a try. So he brought her into the session, sat her down in front of the speakers, and played her um the an example, and she goes, Yeah, that's the digital. It just doesn't sound like it. And goes, like, okay, so I've got another setup I want to play you. I want to play you, you know, we found another way to make the transfer and see if you like this better. And he mixed in digitally a very subliminal, very small but subliminal amount of record noise in randomly into the signal, and she instantly. That's it.

SPEAKER_01 22:01

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 22:01

That's it. That's exactly it. What did you change? What did you change? And that's it. And we both looked at each other and kind of smirked because we were like, well, we can't put CDs out with digital with record noise on them. But what was it? She didn't what was why was her reaction so clear to that? And I and I know she knows the difference between what a record click and record noise sounds like, and she was a very astute listener. This wasn't this was an emotional reaction that she was keyed into. So I've always remembered that. Kind of thought it was kind of wacky and a little eccentric, but you know, I keep coming back to it. Why does this the stuff that's got surface noise in it seem to be more alive? Even though when you measure it, it doesn't have as good a circum as a signal-to-noise ratio. It doesn't have as good a uh separation numbers. But I think it the the and this is again my stating my theory for one more time. I think that this the impulses of the surface noise and the the sort of the constant dither or you know, background noise of the surface noise, and then the s sort of non-musically related noise that's in there somehow parks our analytical brain for a few moments and allows our creative side to really appreciate what's what's there.

SPEAKER_02 23:18

Yeah, no, absolutely. I it it it certainly stands to reason. So I'm curious what um what what did she say when she found out that you know that you would artificially put record noise into the recording and and what what did you eventually release?

SPEAKER_00 23:34

Um I to be honest, I'm not sure I'm gonna accurately relate this because it I I'm not quite sure exactly what happened, but I'm I'm pretty sure she um uh she was assured that the releases would be made properly, and uh and uh everyone was happy for thereafter. But um I don't recall us putting record noise into those releases. It was it was at that point it was determined that if that was the the thing she was objecting objecting objecting to, well, that was something they couldn't do at that point.

SPEAKER_02 24:05

Yeah, which is which is fascinating because uh you know at that point she had she was forced to intellectualize the difference between the noisy and the non-noisy, you know, the artificial noise, and adjust how she listened. And I you know, I assume that you know eventually she just said, well, okay, I get it now, and gave the go-ahead for a version that maybe you know didn't send her to the moon like the original one did.

SPEAKER_00 24:28

Yeah, yeah. And I don't think everyone's going to have that kind of reaction. I think you, like I said, you have to be a little predisposed to it. I think you also have to be a little naive about it. The more you understand of what you're actually hearing, the harder it is to tap into your to your enjoyment of it. Sure. Um and I and I think that's I think there's parallels in in everything we do that's uh sort of creative. If if you know what the magic trick is about, then you don't appreciate the magic.

SPEAKER_02 24:55

Exactly. Yeah, no, it's it's not magic anymore. I mean, uh at that point you're forced to intellect intellectualize it, and then your brain starts chewing on, well, oh, it was the sleight of hand and it was a distraction and that kind of thing. And you know, instead of just really enjoying the, you know, the the the art, the performance.

SPEAKER_00 25:12

Yeah. So um uh that you know, um there was a couple other experiences similar, but that was the most profound, where it was really someone who um wasn't in control of the technology, but had a very profound reaction to it. And and I'm and I'm sure um there's even some uh digital listeners out there that um have noticed that certain converters and certain um playback systems sound better. And you know, we we we go looking for the specs to see, you know, what be the cause of that. But to be honest, there may be some quote unquote derogatory or negative specs that are actually improving your enjoyment factor. And we just can't measure, we can't put enjoyment factor on a um uh on the spec sheet. It's it's it's it's incredibly personal. And then you know, we'll add even one more factor into it. It's it's emotional at the level where your own opinion changes depending on your state of mind and your emotional positioning. So there's there's a need to be predisposed to allow this music to talk to you. So when I'm really in the zone and I'm really uh capturing what the music really needs, um, I find I have to be in the right mental place, uh emotional place to do that. There have been more than a few times I've sat down at my desk after a confrontation with another human um over something, um, or even an inanimate object, you know, like a chair leg that I, you know, stubbed my toe on. And it's it's remarkable how you it takes a while for that stuff to bleed out of your system enough so that you can then uh hear the way you're used to hearing.

SPEAKER_02 26:57

So true, so true.

SPEAKER_00 26:59

There is actually I I don't know if I've heard anybody else talk about it, but I actually think there is such a thing as an angry listen. Oh, hell yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:07

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 27:09

I know it is when you're talking person to person. I mean, when you're angry, you're just not hearing what they're saying, or you're certainly interpreting what they're saying with as if, you know, in an angry way. But I think there's um I'm when um when the circumstances of a session produces uh let's just say uh uh an uncomfortable feeling in myself, which quite frankly is about the only time that happens is if someone's questioning my ability um a draw in a really in a derogatory manner, or if someone is expecting me to work many more hours than I had really originally agreed on, um, I start to go into this other way of listening. And quite frankly, it's it's completely destructive. Um, and and you have to I have to find a way to get myself out of it so that I can move forward.

SPEAKER_02 27:59

Can you put your finger on the nature of the destruction? Um, you know, do you do you do or not do certain things? Do you you know not add a compression out of spite thing? Like, you know, how does it manifest itself? I'm curious.

SPEAKER_00 28:14

Well, just really I think it's in the same sort of way when you're talking or with with an anger feeling to somebody as opposed to trying to, you know, mutually come to an agreement with somebody. Just that the difference in the way you you see everything, the way you hear everything. Um at that moment, I'm trying too hard to get out of that situation. Uh so I'm not actually solving the problems, I'm trying to solve for the clock, or I'm trying to solve for my my fact that my stomach is empty. Uh get it done and get it over with. I'm just trying to find a solution and I'll become unwittingly, uh unconsciously, become more of a pushy salesman than I would normally be.

SPEAKER_01 28:54

Right.

SPEAKER_00 28:54

Like, yeah, that's fine. You're you're you're gonna love it. It's fine. Let's just move on. And I was like, you know, people look at me like, where did that come from? It's like, well, you haven't given I haven't been able to go to the bathroom in seven hours. That's why. And even me just saying that cup saying it that way to somebody, I then everyone in the room goes, Oh, yeah, okay. Yeah, let's take five, if that's what and uh I don't know. It's it's um I I I think everybody um that that's been around musicians in a production environment kind of get what I'm saying. We don't usually talk about it too much because we're we're all perfect and we all just get along, but there are times when it's uh when you know in close quarters with the same people with uh uh intense um agendas and uh sometimes uh very personal tastes you kind of bump up into into that. But um there's um there's um something related uh about the way well I'll stop for for one second and and remind everyone that what we see and what we hear aren't actually a reality. It's our brains generated a reality for us and we relate what we hear and what we see and taste and smell to other things that we've seen, heard, tasted, and smelled. Well, I actually did that. Um nice job. We um so that that sound that you hear on Tuesday that you've never heard anything like it before, and it's awkward and it's you know it's off-putting and you it makes you uncomfortable. Two days later, after you've worked with that artist for a few days and you understand that the reason why it sounds that way and that they actually are trying to make it sound that way, you know, on day three, it's it's it absolutely has to be there and it's pleasant, and you you expect it, and now if it goes away, you're gonna miss it. So, you know, my point is we'd love to think that our vision and our hearing are super analytical and that we can hear the tiniest little degrees in variance, and quite frankly, we can, but then our you know, our our subconscious and our psyche and our human condition enters in, and that just messes up everything. I have been in situations um where um uh a mix or master is up on the speakers and everybody's loving it, and I'm I just hit record and I'm just about to capture the result. It's either a final mix or presumably a final master. And somebody walks into the room that hadn't been in the room for the last half hour and walks um over and sort of mouths something to me, and I can't quite hear them, so I turn the speakers down, and they say kind of quietly, I sure there's enough bass in there? Or you know, how do you or even just even more uh discreet? Um, you know, how do you feel about the bass? And now everyone in the room is questioning their decision about the bass because now this interact this person that they trust and interact with has come in and has raised the question. Now everyone has changed the way they hear, and will then spend the next hour or more pursuing all sorts of different options and quite often landing right back where we were when they came through the door. And then at some point, someone the person who came in the door realizes that they kind of upset the apple cart and realize, well, you know, I I wasn't really sure, I didn't really think it was wrong. I just wanted to know that you'd thought about it.

SPEAKER_01 32:40

Right.

SPEAKER_00 32:40

I just asked the question, and it really wasn't a loaded question, but um uh so we we we only hear with emotion is my point. We we don't hear technically, we just try to interpret, we try to push our creative input aside so that we can isolate and interpret technically, but in fact, most technical discussions about whether something is better or not, it's just simply a matter of preference. And and oftentimes that's a matter of of what your personal experience is, or maybe even what you had for lunch. Um it's it's like so everything sort of matters when you get down to it.

SPEAKER_02 33:21

Yeah, absol absolutely, absolutely. The psychology of you know, of of uh taking in art, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 33:28

It's it's the parallels are in in graphic and visual art and in dance and performance and um uh art installations of light and you know, scenery and and uh of of um interior design. I mean it's it's it's all sort of the same thing. Um have you ever walked into a room that you thought was pretty cool, but then you walk in another time with somebody who verbalizes how uncool it is?

SPEAKER_02 33:51

And like and all of a sudden something that's not cool. Sure.

SPEAKER_00 33:55

Because you thought everyone, everyone that was like you, you would think it was cool.

SPEAKER_02 34:00

So, listeners, if you have um if you have thoughts or examples, uh you know, we're curious, leave us a message uh somewhere in the comments or uh on Twitter or at masterdisc.com or you know on Instagram. Uh, you know, if you uh let us know what you think about this. Have you had a you know, if you have you had varying experiences, have you had an experience like this in the studio where somebody came in and asked about the base and all of a sudden you weren't sure. We want a little feedback here. It's good for us.

SPEAKER_00 34:27

So we'll wrap it up with that uh tidy little bit about everything you ever wanted to know about your your brain from a non-brain scientist.

SPEAKER_02 34:37

Next week, Scott will dissect a human brain live on the podcast.

SPEAKER_00 34:42

Well, I was gonna dissect your brain live on the podcast.

SPEAKER_02 34:45

Well, fortunately for me, mine's made out of stone.

SPEAKER_00 34:49

Well, they'll call me hard-headed for nothing, so I'm out to all right, folks. Thanks for listening. This is Making Vinyl at MasterDisc, and uh uh anything else related to vinyl uh is fair game here as well. If you've got questions, uh please send them along. Hey, I'm Scott Hall, Chief Engineer of MasterDisc, saying goodbye for now. See you next time.

SPEAKER_02 35:09

Goodbye, goodbye.