The Science Pawdcast

Season 2 Episode 15: Dinosaur Tails, COVID smelling Dogs and The Life Aquatic with Chanelle Zap

May 06, 2020 Jason Zackowski with Bunsen Berner Season 2 Episode 15
The Science Pawdcast
Season 2 Episode 15: Dinosaur Tails, COVID smelling Dogs and The Life Aquatic with Chanelle Zap
The Science Pawdcast
Season 2 Episode 15: Dinosaur Tails, COVID smelling Dogs and The Life Aquatic with Chanelle Zap
May 06, 2020 Season 2 Episode 15
Jason Zackowski with Bunsen Berner

Hope everyone is happy and healthy!  The Zackowskis and Bunsen are staying safe and practicing good physical distancing.
On this week's podcast we have some fun science news about the tail of a giant dinosaur- The Spinosaurus!  In Dog Science, a team of researchers are putting the snooter power of dogs to work to smell out asymptomatic COVID19 carriers!  Our guest is the super cool maritime archaeologist Chanelle Zap.  She delights us with tales of learning from the past, the science used in underwater archaeology and how the past can help the future heal.
For Science, Empathy and Cuteness!

Chanelle Zap on Twitter:

Chanelle Zap's website:

Chanelle's Cool Links!…  incredible 3D models that you can investigate from a computer or smart device! For anyone who is interested in volunteering, the NAS organizes some great workshops and do a great job teaching divers to be cognizant of wrecks! The Honor Frost Foundation is another great place for people to start looking, especially if they're interested in the Mediterranean!


Bunsen on Twitter:
Bunsen on Facebook
Bunsen Merch!

and this Saturday:

Genius Lab Gear for 10% link!-
10% off science dog bandanas, science stickers and science Pocket tools

Support the show (

Show Notes Transcript

Hope everyone is happy and healthy!  The Zackowskis and Bunsen are staying safe and practicing good physical distancing.
On this week's podcast we have some fun science news about the tail of a giant dinosaur- The Spinosaurus!  In Dog Science, a team of researchers are putting the snooter power of dogs to work to smell out asymptomatic COVID19 carriers!  Our guest is the super cool maritime archaeologist Chanelle Zap.  She delights us with tales of learning from the past, the science used in underwater archaeology and how the past can help the future heal.
For Science, Empathy and Cuteness!

Chanelle Zap on Twitter:

Chanelle Zap's website:

Chanelle's Cool Links!…  incredible 3D models that you can investigate from a computer or smart device! For anyone who is interested in volunteering, the NAS organizes some great workshops and do a great job teaching divers to be cognizant of wrecks! The Honor Frost Foundation is another great place for people to start looking, especially if they're interested in the Mediterranean!


Bunsen on Twitter:
Bunsen on Facebook
Bunsen Merch!

and this Saturday:

Genius Lab Gear for 10% link!-
10% off science dog bandanas, science stickers and science Pocket tools

Support the show (

spk_0:   0:08
Hello, science enthusiasts. My name is Jason Ziolkowski and your host. I'm a high school chemistry teacher, but you probably know our dog Bunsen burner. He's the Twitter science dog. This show takes what's best about Munson's account, the science of empathy found there and spends it into podcast. For every week you'll learn some new science in her science news section. We'll also talk about some really interesting dog or pet science every week. There's an amazing expert that has interviewed, and we get the learned so much from them, and we end the podcast with stories and trivia. This is the science podcast. Hey, everybody, thanks for tuning into another podcast episode during Corona Virus locked down. I hope everybody is happy and healthy out there. We are doing just fine. So some exciting news on our front, the buns and stuff he's have come in. It's been a very long process to get them to look just like Bunsen, but they are amazingly, adorably cute, and we're gonna have them on our website. It's www Bunsen burner bmd dot com. Probably by the time you're listening to this, the website is still going to be locked, but the Saturday after this comes out, it's going to be open. So go check it out. It's gonna be the hub for all things Bunsen. And it will also have a page that talks about the podcast. We have some other exciting news to tell you about. But I'm gonna leave that for next week. Ha ha! What's on tap for today? Okay, we're gonna talk about dinosaurs in the in the science section and about Cove in 19 smelling dogs in dog science. Our expert guest is an amazingly cool person. Her name is Chanel Zap. She is a maritime archaeologist. So, like Indiana Jones. But like aquatic. So cool. It's such a fun interview. Can't wait for you guys to listen to it. Hey! Ah, Bunsen. Why did the fishermen redirect his boat? He did it for just the halibut. Ah, don't be coy. Oh, ok, on with the show because there's no time like science time this weekend. Science news. We're gonna talk about dinosaurs. Yea, it's been a while since we've talked about dinosaurs. So the dinosaur news this week is really cool. It's a boat, a giant swimming dinosaur. So we know that a lot of dinosaurs could swim. And we know that a lot of dinosaurs that were really big like to spend most of their time in the swampy kind of marsh because it took weight off of their joints right there. So such enormous creatures. How do we know that dinosaurs could swim right? Like that's a puzzle womb? All we have are their bones. Well from their bones. We can figure out the structures that there their bodies had. The dinosaur that's in the news this week is a type of spina source. Spinosaurus Agip Tikus. And it was a new fossil discovery of that kind of link type of dinosaur that has a giant paddle tail. This is a 95 million year old dinosaur that was found like the fossils were found in Morocco, and it was a nearly complete tale about 80%. So if I know I've talked about this before, but fossils and finding fossils and finding perfect fossilized records is like a a watery win for paleontologists. When something dies, it probably is ripped to shreds by scavengers of the time, and everything has to go right at that time to turn that dinosaur Whatever it is into something that is covered up by sediment and then starts the fossilization process. So Nazir Abraham is the vertebrate pay paleontologist that released the study in nature, and his quote is hilarious. This type of spinosaurus is a river monster. I think that was like a show River monsters way don't get cable TV. But I remember seeing ads for that. So this type of spinosaurus lived near the water and eight food that was in the water like because you caught seafood and it had really sharp teeth for like, scooping the fish out of the water. Think like, you know, like a grizzly bear. I don't know if you've seen them, uh, fishing for salmon. So they used to think that the spinosaurus would like wade through the water like the grizzly bear and snake the fish. But when they found the tail to this type of spinosaurus the a spinosaurus Agip tikus it was a swimming tail. So in 2014 the fossil was discovered in Moroccans Kim Kim beds and it was by this amateur fossil fossil under found It was like, OK, this is super cool if you want to envision, if you want to envision what this tale looks like. Ah, the tail had very, very long spines and bony projections, and it made the back end of the tail kind of look like a paddle. And there's all of these V shaped bones underneath of it called Chevron's. Most dinosaurs have Chevron's, and then towards the tip, they get a little bit smaller. The tail was also really flexible, and you need that with a flipper ish tale. Now Abraham did some really cool science with the tail that they found. They made plastic models of it, Um, and then they hooked it up to like a robotic system to make it kind of flap to figure out what kind of propulsive power that it had. And this tale was able to go pretty good in the water, which led them to believe that it was probably used to propulsive it, like to swim to catch prey. However, they also say, well, maybe it was used for swimming, but also could have been used for display right like a peacock's tail. But both could do the same thing. You could have a really fancy looking tail and your fancy looking tail could be a very fancy looking tail flipper. Her paddle. Over time, the various spinosaurus is tales started to stiffen and started to turn more into a whip rather than a paddle. So this early, this fossil that was found is very unique. And because they found a nearly complete portion of it 80% of the tail, they were able to make such perfect, perfect models that they re able to basic. They were able to show that this spinosaurus was a swimmer, man everything back then, like if you drop time traveled into the wrong time during the dinosaur time, you wouldn't last 30 seconds like, oh, plop into the all the swim away from this dinosaur hops in after you and like, beavers itself over with the giant tail and scoops you up. Uh, dinosaurs were so cool in the show notes. I'll post a link that kind of shows what the spinosaurus is. Tail looks like so cool. All right, so that's the dinosaur news. And also science news for this week. Okay, this weekend, dog science, we're gonna talk about the smelling snood, er power of dogs and covert 19. So I've talked before about how powerful dog's sense of smell is. It is magnitudes better than our smell. And a program of the University of Pennsylvania School of Veterinary Medicine is looking at putting the power of dog's noses toe work to try to smell out people who are asymptomatic with Corona virus. Isn't that cool, right? That's the big problem with Corona virus right now is that you don't know you have it, you're not sick and you're spreading it to people who it could potentially be deadly, for There have been lots of reports done that dogs could or can or do smell. Vo ces omitted from people with Cancer Vo Cesaire Volatile organic compounds and they come out of our bodies. Human bodies, all animals, bodies and in our hair in our saliva are breath and our urine in our blood, too. And it's shown that in about six months, the VO sees that are released from cancer cells is unique enough to dogs that they can be trained to identify. The smell of a specific type of cancer isn't that crazy. That same ability could potentially be used for dogs to identify coronavirus. All right, so what did Penn What did Penn Vet do? What did this would they do? Well, they got eight dogs that were really good in a lab situation. Okay, Not like they're really good with a bunch of Labrador retrievers. Know they're really good in laps. All right? So over three weeks, they would learn to recognize the smell of cove in 19 in the saliva and urine of people who are infected through its. It's a technique called odor. In printing, the dogs were like given urine and saliva, and then we're given rewards. If they found the smell that they wanted, right, the cove in 19 smoke was that successful. So this study is still ongoing. They are still working on the data. I don't can't tell you if it was successful or not. The Penn Vet scientists were were on record saying that they could. These dogs could be sniffing out Cove in 19 by July. Now a problem that's come up when we're talking about animals and covert 19 as animals could get cove in 19. I think there was a couple cases so far in the entire world, one in China and then one in the United States, where a dog tested positive for Cove in 19. It's super super unlikely that dogs could get Cove it 19 even if they're around it all the time. But there is data showing that that one, I think, was a pug. That pug did get Covert 19 from its family. So these dogs that are working in the lab to sniff out covert 19 are being monitored and looked at very, very carefully so they don't get sick last year. What is a sick pepper? Who's just doing their best to just help us out? Men Dogs are always helping on humans. I've said that before. They're just great friends to us, and science is trying to use their noses to help us with Corona virus. The last thing that this study mentions is that we're probably going to have a second wave of it when flu season starts up again in the fall, right as numbers were falling and who knows if they're really gonna fall right there? Some. There are definitely some epidemiologists and scientists that are super concerned with the opening up of economies all over the world, including where we live in Alberta, that there may be spikes and we might have to go down on lock down. Let's hope that doesn't happen. But a lot of epidemiologists are also saying we could have a second wave. So when the second wave happens, met we would have these dogs potentially trained and they'd be like, There's nothing could be eight of them in this little study. But we could found that out to potentially speed up testing. Who knows? And it's something right. It's something that's dog science for this week before we get to the interview section, I just want to tell everybody about how the podcast has made possible. It's made possible by listeners just like you. The podcast will always be free to download. You're never gonna have to worry about paying for it. This has been one of the greatest decisions of my life to start this podcast just from personally and professionally, how much I've grown, getting to talk to all these amazing people and getting to know people who listen to the show. But the show isn't free to run, and if you want to support it, head over to the Patri on page at patri on dot com. Backslash Bunsen burner, you'll notice that there's different tiers of support and the lowest. Here's only five bucks a month at four shows a month and five bucks a month. That's not that expensive for good educational entertainment. We also send out swag to our patrons and give them awesome patron Onley content and early access, like getting on to the website early for Bunsen and top tier patrons got a Bunsen stuffy ship to them Today, the link is in the show notes If you want to head over there and check it out. Thanks for listening, guys onto the interview section on the science podcast. I am super excited to talk to Chanel. Zap Chanel's up. How are you doing today?

spk_1:   12:27
Excellent. Thank you very much for having me.

spk_0:   12:29
Ah, so good. Um, where are you calling to us? In the world from Reno.

spk_1:   12:34
I am currently in Ottawa, Ontario. So not too far from you compared to where I've been in the past.

spk_0:   12:41
Can this pretty big? I think Prada, but you know, like it is Where were you in the past?

spk_1:   12:47
So I did my undergrad it in Newfoundland, and then I did my

spk_0:   12:53
okay. That's a ways away. Yeah, Chanel. You're staying safe with all of this covert 19 stuff.

spk_1:   12:59
Yes, thankfully, I'm just writing my thesis right now, so that's easy for me to do from home, and my family is all able to work from home as well. So we're keeping each other company, keeping each other sane and making the best of it. That's good, because there as well

spk_0:   13:14
way we are both my wife and I are teachers, and I've mentioned this before in the podcast about like a special in Cove in 19 hit we've had to like. It's been a Herculean effort of changing everything that we normally teach face to face online. No. So that's, um, it's been definitely a different way of thinking for sure.

spk_1:   13:36
Yeah, and especially for something that, like science, is so hands on. You can't really do the qualitative stuff in person anymore. So that is a challenge, I imagine.

spk_0:   13:47
Yeah, it has been the other Kim teachers and I we've been shooting these horrible, awkward, like videos where we do labs and and then on purpose, because I'm that kind of teacher. I put the worst kind of like jazzy music just soft enough from the background. You can hear it because my students know my students know that I like to poke fun at them and then I put subtitles But I make sure the subtitles are just off enough that they're really awkward, like you know, not what a speaking like a few seconds after just to make it uncomfortable. So the feedback has been really good from kids. They like. They just love the cringe factor of the videos we've been shooting. So that's good. Let's talk about you and what you what you study study a really unique area of, of science and history. It's marine archeology,

spk_1:   14:38
Yes. So I like to go by the title Maritime archaeology. But I think I maritime archives. Oh, no, no. You can keep that in because I think by the linguistics that I use I'm probably one of the few that I know that actually is a marine archaeologist. So and and this is something that's totally up for debate across the discipline, Some people call themselves underwater archaeologist. Some people call themselves marine or maritime. I like the word maritime because it deals with more the culture of living by the sea and interacting with it versus Marine. We think of marine biology, which is studying the things that live in the sea. So setting Mariners, which would be people that lived on the sea, Um, and then underwater archaeology. The reason I don't use that is because that just says where the office is. Basically, it's just it could be studying a quarry site that's been building with water, but that used to be land dwelling. So that's why I don't use underwater archaeology as much.

spk_0:   15:38
Maritime archaeology. What What's your training for that like, can you Can you tell everybody a little bit about where, like how you got to where you are right now?

spk_1:   15:48
Absolutely so. And there's, um, in my Masters program. There were seven of us, and we all had very different routes that took us there. So depending on where you go to study, there's so many different ways to get there. So that's one thing I always like to tell people. If you're interested in it, there's a way personally, personally, I did my I started off my undergrad in marine biology. Um, and when I got towards the time of picking an honors thesis, there was a few sort of bumps in the road. Um, the thesis I developed with a supervisor that I really got along with sort of was wrenched out of my hands. Um, because he wasn't He was no longer professor with the university. Um, and I had already started a minor in archaeology because what I always wanted to study was the way that ecosystems reclaim shipwrecks or piers or anything else that humans are

spk_0:   16:40
so cool.

spk_1:   16:42
Yeah, so I wanted to look at OK, it's not just this ecosystem that naturally lived there, but it's somehow reclaimed what humans have put in. Um and so I was already doing archeology, and I had this fantastic archaeology prop who was a bio archaeologist. So she looks at, um, shells that have been harvested by aboriginal communities and looks at what sort of paleo climatology that can tell her or how the humans were harvesting from their environment. As she was sat me down. She said, You can absolutely do that project that you have in mind from an archaeology perspective. So I already had all that marine biology background. I think I was missing two courses from completing that degree sort of, Um, and one of them was a biochemistry course.

spk_0:   17:28
That was That was my minor in my side stickers.

spk_1:   17:32
It's a challenge.

spk_0:   17:33
It's tough stuff. Yeah,

spk_1:   17:35
And so basically, if I had wanted a piece of paper that said archaeology as well as marine biology, I needed to do a double honors, and that was just a little bit too much work. So I did. Ah, I switched my focus pretty last minute to archaeology, graduated with a degree in that with my background in marine biology and found this fantastic program at the University of Malta. That was very, very new. Um, and so I went there for my coursework and fieldwork. And now I'm back in Ottawa writing my thesis, and it really played out fantastically.

spk_0:   18:07
But what? What? What a crazy journey. No talk to me about archaeology. What? What? Grabbed you with archaeology? Was it something when you were little, like the the history and the, uh, old cultures and or was it videos of people dusting off things in tunes like Indiana Jones? Like what? Grabbed you with archaeology?

spk_1:   18:29
I actually gonna ask this question recently in public, and I was like, flabbergasted that I didn't really know how to answer it, because I always knew I was always fascinated with marine biology. I always wanted to go to a query ins. I had school folders that were underwater sort of Seascape. Um, but I never realized that I had this fascination with archaeology until I really got to university. Um, I always loved historical fiction, so I loved reading about you know, how people lived in the past and sort of putting myself in the shoes of a 13 year old during the American Revolutionary War or whatever. Um, and there's actually this video from oven interview I did with CBC on my first archaeological dig, where they interviewed me and I goofed up, and I said, I didn't realize that archeology was still something we could study. And I sound so dumb in, haven't you? Because, like you said, the the images of people dusting off all tombs, it's all older white men, and I'm like, Oh, they've already done it all. You know, all of Egypt. We know where all the pyramids are. Look at this year, we now know that's not true. Um uh, tell three Egyptology didn't interest me as much. I sort of passed through that very quickly. Um, my heritage is Greek and Italian. So there's this, like, looming presence of the sea in my history in my like family history. And even though my family themselves didn't have as much like seafaring experience in them, from what I can learn, I still felt like that was where I belonged. And so I became

spk_0:   20:11
Were you like marijuana? Like, Do you stand on the edge of the ocean and you feel like a calling? I've heard people say that before. About the ocean.

spk_1:   20:18
Yeah, definitely.

spk_0:   20:20
They feel like a poll towards it.

spk_1:   20:22
Absolutely. I mean, like, where I feel most at home is definitely with my feet or whole body in the water, which terrifies my mom. She hates that I dive, but I'm not gonna stop. And yes, so I just I felt like even though we didn't have that family history, I felt like that was what I had to dio. And so I've been working towards it

spk_0:   20:43
now. Did you choose to go to Malta because of your your heritage? Or did that just like for people don't know geography? Malta is it south of Italy, right? Is that yes, it's my job, if you right there.

spk_1:   20:55
Okay, so it's pretty much right between Sicily and or Italy and, um, North Africa. It really is pretty much the geographic middle of the Mediterranean, and that is definitely a factor that played in. There's not a lot of universities that teach maritime archaeology, um, so that some of the other ones were in Florida or Texas. And then there was another one in Cyprus. But it's only half maritime archaeology. Half the program is still terrestrial. So I figured if I have to go away from home again, I would feel more at home in the Mediterranean than in the Southern US. And yet Malta speaks. I mean, I speak Greek, so I might have been OK in Cyprus, but Malta still speaks English, and it worked out really well.

spk_0:   21:39
That must have just been the craziest, most gorgeous place in the world to take your education, like on an island in the middle of this.

spk_1:   21:47
I see absolutely. Yeah. We used to have lessons at the Maritime Museum, which was across the harbor from where I was living in the capital city So some days I'd wake up and cause our professor was the head curator there, I'd wake up and I'd walk, you know, eight minutes to this very terminal. And I'm just walking down the hill at seven o'clock in morning, eight o'clock in morning with the sun, sort of just having this golden glow across thes thes buildings. I'm just like, What am I doing here? There was a couple of days I missed the ferry because I stopped to take pictures, but I couldn't thought that it was so stunning.

spk_0:   22:28
I I feel you like what? Um sadly, because of covert 19 are everything shut down with schools in Canada, right? I Every year I organized a trip for our kids from landlocked Red Deer, Alberta, and we go to the Banfield Marine Biology Center on Vancouver Island. And it's it's I don't know if you've ever been out that far west to the island, but it's just that whole West coast of that island is just like the East Coast. It's just like another world, and it just you just look out into the ocean and you just Oh, my goodness, this is part of our part of earth like it just blows you away. How does science, Because this is the science podcast. Can you tell everybody a little bit about how science interwar is interwoven with archaeology with what you're studying, or maybe your education?

spk_1:   23:22
Absolutely. And I feel like the answer to that question is that it's limitless. Archaeology and science are evolving at such a rate, and archaeology, especially, is becoming so much more interdisciplinary than it was in the past that we're finding so many more ways to integrate the two. To answer the questions that we now have about the past, we need to use science, and there's a few really great examples of this. So one of the most science see ones that you'll probably like the most being a chemistry teacher is that what we do a lot of now, especially with rain artifacts, is we try to do in situ conservation, which is leaving them where they are right now, um, so underwater in order to preserve them there. And part of that is for expenses. Part of that is for storage. We can't display in store every big shipwreck that we bring out, Um, but something that back. Another reason why we do that is because they're stable right now. A soon as we bring something out of the water, if it's metal, it starts to corrode and oxidize. If it's would, it starts to be composed underwater. It's an anaerobic environment, so they're pretty well preserved. And so long as we can monitor that, make sure there's no changes. We can sort of keep them not indefinitely, but much more prolonged in a preserve state. So one way that we do that is we can actually take a pneumatic drill underwater core into orb. Or rather, I should say, threw the corrosive layer of a cannon, a metal schiphol, whatever it might be. And then quickly put on an ode in a week and a Ph. Meter. And we can see what the pH of that metal environment the interface between the pure metal and the corrosion layer. Because the corrosion becomes a sacrificial barrier, Um, and then we can plot that on a graph and see if it's actively corroding or passively corroding or if it's stable, and then we can do a whole bunch of other things to try to subtly change that environment to make it a stable as possible. So it's not gonna corrode anymore. Um, that's super chemistry related. Cause that's read

spk_0:   25:30
off. Super chemistry is literally that is literally a part of the unit in chemistry. 30 Redox?

spk_1:   25:37
Yes. So when I then, like last year, when we're learning about this, the other six kids in my class were like, What's Redox? How do we What does this make any sense? And because I had done all these kind of courses, I was like, right hydrogen ions. Yet we got this. I had to explain. It all was a lot of fun, but so that's just one way, because most archaeologists aren't going to understand that most archaeologists haven't taken any chemistry courses. So you might have a scientific diver go down, collect that data and then send it to a chemist to analyze. Um, but another really cool way that science is becoming involved is with statistical modeling. So there was actually a French warship from the Napoleonic Wars that, um I think was from Trafalgar's last battle against Napoleon. And this big storm came up right after they had defeated him, and this ship was lost. And so a couple of divers. A couple groups had gone down to try to find this wreck because it was It's a big part of British history and they weren't having any luck finding it, even though they knew exactly where this so called battle had happened, where this ship had vanished and beneath the waves. And it took a universe a couple university academics, a physicist and a statistician. And they looked at previous reports of storms And what? How the sea currents changed and they plotted where the debris field of this wreck would have been, and figured out that they have been excavating in the totally wrong areas, like they had been excavating towards the south of the site instead of towards the north. Um, and they plotted out where they were 95% confident that this wreck debris should be sent divers oath, and they found enough materials to confirm that that was the wreck. They were looking at

spk_0:   27:26
that school like underwater currents, weather patterns, all of that, probably fact physics drift

spk_1:   27:32
exactly. And because there would you No, it's not gonna sink right away, especially when it's broken down. So you've got surface tension you've got buoyancy and up thrust from the water. All that playing into how fast something sinks. So

spk_0:   27:45
this is this is quickly becoming mawr complicated than Dr Indiana Jones. Just taking an equal sized rock and switching it with the treasure so he doesn't get booby trapped. Yeah, definitely. I'm gonna be using, uh, Indiana Jones references occasionally because I grew up with that Those those movies. So

spk_1:   28:08
Oh, by all means, there's actually really great, um, archeologist That does a lot of Sai calm as she recently did a video of herself. She's called Dig It With Rave in on Instagram. She did a YouTube video of her and another archeologist watching Indiana Jones and just picking it apart. It's hilarious.

spk_0:   28:25
That's so cool. Because, you know, back then, everybody who was interested in archaeology romanticized Doctor Indiana Jones, right, And talk about not having a female role model for little girls who maybe want to do that on now. Having now having yourself on the podcasts and people like this dig it with rave in, that's gonna be so cool. Cool for the next generation of girls listening. That man, it's not a guy with the whip Yeah, somebody that. It's somebody that dives and takes drill core samples and analyzes the chemistry. Come on, pick up your game, Dr Jones.

spk_1:   29:02
There's definitely more challenges for women in archaeology than for men compared to, say, like other academic jobs. Um, and that is something that you learned the hard way. When you go into the field, and especially for myself and the one other girl that was in my class, we didn't have any female role models in the field with us to answer certain questions. Um, so, yeah, it was a lot of trial and error sometimes, and I fully open myself up. If any young women doing their first sold school have questions, they can feel free to get in touch with me.

spk_0:   29:36
Did you did you face like gross sexism, or was it just like you were kind of shut out Sometimes

spk_1:   29:44
when I first started diving in Greece, Actually, there definitely was some sexism. I I was 11 years old, and I told when my dive instructors that I wanted to be re biologists and I wanted to dive for work, and I'm like now I am five foot 4 £140. Back then I was even puny er and he straight up said to me, There's no way that's going to happen like give up on it. You're gonna be a vacation diver. You're gonna dive once a year when your family goes on vacation and that's it, that's it, Like he fully did not expect me to dive past that certification. So every time and because that first day getting out of the water like climbing back onto the boat, I couldn't do it by myself. With the gear on, I had to take all my gear off, and I still struggle to climb up that ladder like I was weak. And now, almost 15 years later, I get out of the water on a dive with all my gear on. Besides my fins, I can climb out of the water onto the rocks and walk the 50 meters whatever back to the car without breaking a sweat or getting huffy. So every time I get out of that water, I think back to that dude and I'm like, Yes, I am here you're not, Um, but then when it comes to academia, I was when I was in Newfoundland. There was nothing like no discrimination between the dive community and in academia itself. Like it was such a good department. I had so many really great female role models, and even my male role models were always so happy. Toe sit down and have a chat. When I went to Malta, there was definitely a few issues with some of my classmates. Um, so when we were underwater, women tend to conserve their air better. This is something that I've anecdotally experienced, sort of across my diving experience. Women always leave the water with more air than men. And especially some like me and the of one other female were much more experienced divers and some of the men, and we were in better shape with them. We weren't smokers, too, so we were sometimes, you know. Okay. How much air do you have? Do we need a surface yet? They're like, No, no, we're fine until you're out of there. Were fine. And like, dude, it doesn't work that way. I could go like 2.5 hours on a tank at five meters depth, and they were out of air and sometimes an hour even sometimes some of the men I would die with recreationally like No, no, no. I got to keep an eye on your air. If you're not going to do it because they're see me, I'm going to run out first and it's not gonna happen.

spk_0:   32:06
You know that in great ingrained the I'm better than you because you're ah, girl, And then just show them up because, yeah, you use less oxygen, you're in better shape. I would be that, you know, or white guy that would run out of air in, like, 45 minutes, I guarantee you, Yeah, I would not really be listening to the expert. I'd be like, I will just keep me alive. Thank you. Please show me

spk_1:   32:31
well and that's that's the other funny thing because sometimes when I go on like I do do vacation dives like I went to an island in Greece between field or accessions and I did a few dives there. I'm like, I'm not going to look at anything. I don't need toe work. Quote unquote work on this dive. It's just for fun and ah, again because I have, you know, well over 100 dives and there's some people, they're doing their 15th. I sort of I have no problem. Sort of taking care of them. I've been in some Harry situations well, diving and I know how to get out of them. I have a rescue diver, cert four of reason, But I also work out specifically for diving. I work on my lung capacity. I do certain exercises at the gym when I know I'm gonna be diving a lot to keep me in that top form. Um, versus some people that think they've got their certification there. Good. They can handle this. It's just for fun. And I mean, you throw in water currents and it's not always

spk_0:   33:28
know it's I've swam in the ocean. I'm I was a competitive swimmer runner was when I was young. Um and I'm not near the, you know, as sweeping capacity as I was, but it employed the ocean. It's a lot out of it. Just takes a little bit and then, you know, if you're not prepared your cooked. So

spk_1:   33:44
yeah, I

spk_0:   33:45
would imagine every time, just like any other dive, especially if you're diving to take data. You do. You guys Do you guys have a whole dive plan that you do talk about. You know, everything ahead of time. I must. There must be a lot of planning that goes into it.

spk_1:   34:00
Oh, definitely. So we do a debriefing in the morning before any diving starts before we get kitted up. So and that includes everything from who's gonna be the 1st 1 in the water taking out the safety boys. So cause we need to deploy diver down boys. So that ships in the water or boats? No, not to go near us. Um, and they have to drop down there. Ah, their speed and everything else. So everything from who's gonna be the first person last person in the water deploying those boys to what specific tasks each team of divers have will be. And that changes from site to site. Um, if you've got a really deep water site like this, the subject of my thesis, I wasn't diving on it. I'm working purely from videos, but I was working on another very deep water dive. So for reference, I've been diving for nearly 15 years. The deepest I've ever dove was 50 meters. This site was 110 meters. So some very skilled divers going down there, most of who are not archaeologists. So they're working with an archaeologist who is saying this is the video footage that you are going to collect. This is this, like the interesting artifact that you are going to work on excavating. This is, Ah, the tags that you are going to put here, here and here. And so it's very separated. Um, versus on shallower sites will do a mini debrief and brief between each dive where we have overlap on the surface. And, you know, somebody can say, Hey, I know you want me to do this. Whatever situation came up, we couldn't finish that. So maybe the next team wants toe finish that project so we can sort of work around it. But there's definitely a lot of briefing and communication goes on.

spk_0:   35:38
Well, it's so cool. What? Just what a fascinating area of study. I'm just spiraling from ear to ear, listening to you talk about it. Hey, let's take a little detour and talk about pet because this is the science podcast, and we always ask our guests to share ah pet story or on animal story if you have a pet, do you have Ah, you have pet story you could share with

spk_1:   36:01
us. Ideo I knew you were gonna ask this and I actually camp with, like, three stories and I asked a couple friends to pick which one. So one of them is gonna be very upset with me because I didn't pick her story, but I think it's almost related. Um so mocha, my current dog, we actually got her when you're living in Greece and she we discovered very much enjoy swimming. She's very scared of almost everything, so she doesn't like the waves, But if she sees water, that's, you know, not a puddle that she could actually swim in. She just wants towards it. Um, So we were taking her for to run at the Greek Olympic Complex in Athens and the resist people racing like toy speedboats in these big fountains that they have set up the fountains weren't running, was just standing water, and they had speedboats racing on them. So being the sort of Cali or terrier that she is, she a wanted to fetch these and be wanted to jump in the water. So she took off running as she vaults over the edge of the fountain, lands in this stagnant, muddy three inches of water and just looks mocking us with this absolutely pitiful looking her face like this smells gross. I'm not happy. I can't swim like get me out of here. Made. Yeah, and it was a very long car ride back home. I mean, it wasn't long, but it felt along with

spk_0:   37:25
Did you have to train Mocha to swim? Or is it just innate that like you didn't have to like Shover up until the water? She just

spk_1:   37:33
sort of habitable. I mean, she she loves the water now, but she was when we first time we took her, we took her to a beach. We're on an island and, ah, she really wanted to come out in the water when she saw me and my brother going. But she was scared of the waves because every time she'd walk towards the water, it would come back at her, so she got very timid. Eventually, we just took her tennis ball through it in as she just jumped over the waves and swam towards it, and she would have no problem going out swimming with us. We always because we aren't the type of beachgoers after sit in sunbathe. So we way far we take a boogie board with us, like tied onto a wrist, and then we're out there will just tread water, sort of leaning onto this boogie board for, you know, 15 minutes have a chat, and that's when back in or whatever. And Mocha was like part of the family. She'd go up, and when she got tired of treading water, put her front to pause on the boogie board and just keep turning water with your back legs.

spk_0:   38:29
That is adorable.

spk_1:   38:30
And then a few years ago, she tore her a c l and, uh, we actually, as part of her recovery, we took her for swim therapy and yeah, even that she was timid at first cause have been a few years since she swam. But towards the the end, she would get in, should get her little life jacket on as she run up the steps towards the pool's entrance. Just loved it.

spk_0:   38:52
Um, we've been trying to get Bunsen to swim. I don't I think that I don't think he's a swimmer. I think maybe it's all that hair. It just, like, weighs him down too much.

spk_1:   39:01
Probably is. He's probably pretty heavy. Wet

spk_0:   39:04
old man. He is heavy already, but, um, but Newfoundlanders right there. Those maps, huge dogs. They're good swimmers. And they're fuzzy

spk_1:   39:14
attack. Yeah, And every now and then you meet a new from liner who doesn't like to swim, and it seems very funny, but they actually have webbed toes like they are. I

spk_0:   39:24
love those dogs I love. They're such cool dogs. But Bernese mountain dogs are not built to swim there. They were built to pull stuff, so I think they got a little bit different structure. I've seen burners that swim, but we have to be like I take months and kayaking with me, and I am put a life. I put this massive, this massive dog like jacket on him because I'm just so worried cause he hates swimming that felt he would drown or something. So But like, he's already so big. Plus this massive life jacket, he looked like he's biggest. Another person.

spk_1:   39:57
I mean, we put a life jacket. I'm okay now, um, partially because I think it's the law in Canada? Um, I'm not sure, but also because she's getting older. So, you know, if she does happen to get tired, we don't want to risk anything. We like them. We want to keep them around.

spk_0:   40:10
How big is Mocha?

spk_1:   40:12
She's pretty small. She's Ah, but a foot tall on all fours. Gonna say she's smaller than a than a typical border collie.

spk_0:   40:18
Okay, so I guess that just to finish up if you were ever swimming with her and she hat was in distress and be a lot easier to rescue her then like a 150 So wet Bernese mountain dog, that's

spk_1:   40:32
definitely and her life jacket actually has handles on top. So you can just straight up reach down and grab her like a briefcase and put her back on the wherever she needs to be

spk_0:   40:41
yet. But since has a briefcase handled Teoh, he jumped out of the kayak on the dock and missed it, cause he's like earners burners can't jump fourth darn. And he just in the in the lake. And he was the most pitiful guy and it took two of us like Holum out of the lake. So poor guy thanks for sharing your pet story. It's good memories of, ah, of swimming dogs in with months into the summer, for sure. Hey, one of the questions I was gonna ask you about and it was kind of something in the information you sent about what you're working on is something called there a time mortuary culture. Did I? Did I get that right? Yeah, absolutely. For people listening, it's about death. Correct? Yeah. So, boiler alert, if that's a little, you know, a sensitive subject. But it's also part of history. That's probably huge. Are archaeology is when people die?

spk_1:   41:36
Yes. And so that's something that I get a lot a lot of like when I tell people that might be one of my interests. One of my research interest is in how people die at sea. Or I took a course on mortuary archaeology and when I told people I was taking this, they're sort of like isn't all archaeology about dead people. But for the most part, most archaeologists study how people live. We don't actually study, and most of time you don't even want to come across a dead body or remains on a date because most of what we're interested in is how people lived, how their day to day life waas. Because once we study of mortuary site, when we study a death scene, it's what the living thought of that dead that we see, you know, whether they didn't like them if they were murdered. But for the most part, it's they're giving their most important things to them. So if you see somebody has a great soldier, you're bearing them with a sword, for example. So it's a little bit of a skewed image to take, and there are people that specialize in that and making sure that we don't get misconceptions with it. Um, but for me, I was always fascinated and perhaps like, this is where my maritime archaeology came from because I'm not interested in most cultures, um, archaeologically the way that some people are. But I was always fascinated with death at sea. So the rituals that British sailors maybe had, you know, we hear all these rumors like, you know, threading the needle through the nose to make sure that they're still there. Actually, don't

spk_0:   43:12
Outlander. Did you watch Outlander?

spk_1:   43:16
I did not know. But that's made its appearance on a couple of TV shows and all these and it's always it's always full of superstition. So and that's something that, you know, it's still ties together, the living and the dead aspect. Um And so when I did this mortuary archaeology course, I was able to do my final project on death at sea or how quote unquote maritime mortuary culture during the age of sail. Um, and it took a turn that I definitely did not expect. I was expecting, you know, all these rituals that was going to see and part of my focus ended up being the discrepancy between how, um so there was a couple of very, very sad cases of heinous actions happening on slave ships. Not that they didn't happen all the time. Probably. Um, but you would have. There's a couple of like court martialed. The case is actually went to court because the sailors on board were so uncomfortable with what they're captains were doing, including throwing people overboard alive. Eso I actually sort of looked at the difference between how slaves were being treated in their death and how the person like the young boy that's tending to the kitchen is being treated if he dies as Super Colonial, it's very hard to palette. But there's so much there that we don't get to more on people that diet see the way that we mourn people that die on land? Um, it's a lot of times you build monuments or a lot of times those people died as a result of war. So it's very important that we do mourn them, especially when they're still in the historic memory. Like if one of the projects I'm working on is a World War two site, So I'm actually able to go eventually and talk to the grandchildren that died on this submarine and tell them like this is where your grandfather is or, you know, this is what happened, you know, in their final moments. And I think that's very important for our sort of global healing. When we look at, you know, everybody wants to know a little bit about their history and have somebody that's so close in their historic memory to not be able to have said goodbye to not have any contact with um sometimes even just knowing where or how they passed away could be a huge aid to our grieving process. And a lot of times people don't realize they still need that to go through that system with something that is in their history. It's not something you know. It's not losing your grandmother when you were a child. It's not even getting to meet them. So it definitely does have an impact. And it's the harder part of what Ideo sort of emotionally. But it's, ah, it's very fulfilling.

spk_0:   45:59
Have you got to solve the puzzles for that yet and then inform people of their lost relatives? Or is that within the future of your study?

spk_1:   46:10
So a bit of both, because I realized sort of earlier on that this was a niche that I was interested in, and I somehow had the skills to be able to focus in it. So part of what I'm doing with my thesis, which is that World War two mass grave site. It's a submarine rank, Um, 98 people potentially died on that wreck. Eventually, I am hoping to be able to go to the communities involved and give a sort of public talk and show them what we're doing. And because part of my sort of interest is we're never going to be able to bring up that submarine because of how deep it is because of the fact that it is a submarine. It's a war grave. It needs to stay in the water. But it's become this thriving ecosystem and so thes men's stories live on through the ecosystem that's growing on it. So it's a huge life form now. And, uh, I think that's also important, like people are now able to visit it and pay their respects. It's not just going down for the sake of seeing a cool wreck. You're going down to show respect to these men that gave their lives. There's a plaque on it, so we've got multiple sort of monuments to it. But I'm also working on this other project with the new feline coastal communities that will hopefully launch in a couple years. That will give people way to sort of record their own, uh, ship loss history because there's so many in Newfoundland and Labrador, especially, almost every community has a handful of stories of a fisherman going off to see and not coming home, so sort of helping them grieve with that as well.

spk_0:   47:41
You know, that's such a ingrained part of the coastal communities. They live with this. They live with oceans and seas and bodies of water all the time. Yeah, that's just ingrained in their culture. So for people like myself who have grown up on Lee Landlocked, um, Zaveri serious subject. But it's also a fascinating part of other people's lives and the and And what a cool way to give closure, closure to a community. Um, telling people where you know the stories of where they're, you know, the ancestors are

spk_1:   48:15
Yeah, I hope it helps

spk_0:   48:17
The way that you framed that is just so just trying to think of the word for it. Almost pitiful, you know, like almost piece of that This battle, this horrible time in our history and these people lost their lives, which is horrific. And but it's going on now to be this this light, like this area of life and growth and

spk_1:   48:38
yeah, absolutely. I mean, every wreck around the world is going to at some point between become an ecosystem in and of itself. And no matter how deep it is, those small microbes and small colonial organisms like corals that grow on it are gonna attract other fish, which then supports the local fishing communities. So it really is. It's sort of like a last way for the sacrifice toe pay back to the people and especially when it comes to soldiers, were fishermen who are doing it to serve a community. To me. I think it's a very much a closing the circle.

spk_0:   49:11
Profound. There we go.

spk_1:   49:12
Oh, thank you.

spk_0:   49:13
Well, that's so cool. Thanks for explaining that to us. I guarantee you, there's people out there that never heard of this before. Even thought people are working on it. But, man, what an important part of science and history That's so cool. We're coming to the end of the interview. And one of the things we always ask her guests for is a super fact. And the super fact is something that you know that when you share it with people like blows their mind of it. Do you have a super fact you could share with us?

spk_1:   49:39
I dio um hopefully it's it actually is mind blowing. Um, but it sort of ties in with my research and why I do it s so hopefully gives people some perspective. Um, so in 2011 there was a survey conducted and they analyzed 8500 known shipwrecks sort of around the world. That's a lot of shipwrecks. That's not by any means how many there are. I think, according to rumor, the island of Newfoundland has more than that in its water is so, um so it is still a small sample size. But of those known shipwrecks, 75% of them were from World War Two, which is, you know, one sort of single event in history, even though it took place over a number of years. And that's important because that is just now coming into the archaeological timeline so protected by archaeological archaeological acts in most places of the world, some places say 100 years old is archaeology. Some places say 75 some see 50 but 75% of them are from World War One, and they're leaking harmful materials into the war into the environment. So these 75% are combined, holding more than 20 million tons of hazardous material. Most of them are holding coal, but some of them are holding fuel and other materials like oil. That's the thing. That's totally mind boggling to me, because every other more modern wreck is going to have oil in it as well. We do something called Scuttling, where we deliberately clean a wreck like a commission co starred ship or something, and we sink it to become an artificial reef or sort of a surf breaker or a dive site. The's Rex aren't those. So they all have harmful dies in their paints that are on the exterior. They have transatlantic amounts of supplies of oil or coal, and the big thing is, they're corroding, so they are breaking down. They are leaking and seeping these oils and hazardous materials. And the sad thing is, we just don't know what the impact is yet, So oil we know spreads very easily in water, for Cole probably doesn't spread as much if I don't know how the pressure is going to relate. If it breaks it down into a dust that's more easily dispersed and they're definitely having an impact on the local ecosystem, we don't know about the global yet, so that's the big thing. 20 million tons that we know from one sort of event in history are out there waiting to sort of contaminate, and it's up to archaeologists and chemists to go out and figure out How do we extract it? How do we support these wrecks so that they don't actually break down to the point of having harm? How do you make thes dive sites safe for people to work on and to explore? So I don't know if that's mind boggling enough.

spk_0:   52:31
It's mind boggling. What an enormous challenge and, like gathering data on that to determine if there is going to be effective. If it's negative, how do you mitigate it? That's pretty amazing.

spk_1:   52:43
And that is definitely something that's gonna be interdisciplinary, cause you're gonna need marine biologists. You're going to need hydra grifters that understand the water currents like it's not gonna be a one person job.

spk_0:   52:53
Obviously, the people building ships back then it was. They had no concept of the future ramifications of whatever was on the ship sinking. I don't know if you can answer this question before we kind of moved to the end, but it just kind of popped in my head are with when ships go down now. Is that part of the process like, is there Are there laws in place? Like if your ship sinks, does X y Z have toe happen to protect the environment, or does it just go down and you look for the best?

spk_1:   53:19
So that definitely varies from place to place different countries. We're going to have different environmental protection laws, and the interesting thing is that every wreck sort of in Canada, the US and the UK, I'm certain of Canada in the UK because that's what I've studied, not as sure of the U. S. But we have of government role that's called the receiver of wrecks. And in Canada, I think it's either the Coast Guard or the Department of Transportation. It might be a joint office, and so they actually any wreck that happens in Canadian waters needs to be reported to them, and they become the overseer of that. And so they are supposed to determine is going to be a ah hazard to, you know, other shipping other vessels. Is it in a shipping lane? Is it shallow? Is it deep enough to not pose a risk? Can fishing nets get caught on it and cause damage is going to be an environmental issue. And so that is their perv. A uh like that is something that they need to investigate. But a lot of times, especially in the historic record, insurance companies also have, ah, a claim to Rex. Um, so a lot of times insurance companies want to recover Rex and use them for scrap metal, like recoup their costs as much as possible. So there definitely is multiple stakeholders in that problem, and it's very good question to have, I think, most of the time provided that it's shallow enough. It's not dangerous or expensive enough. We do try to recover them and told them, at least to a harbor somewhere where they could be worked on were safely. But any wreck that goes down deliberately like that does get scuttled, at least in the last 10 years, is supposed to have everything removed. It's supposed to be totally cleaned inside. There's not supposed be any grease, even like cushions from seats. If it was a fairy like any sort of cushion or fabric, polyester is all supposed to be removed, and it's just the metal or wooden hull of the ship that actually goes down, so and they do a pretty good job of it. A lot of, um, former Navy vessels in Australia especially get used for this purpose, and the Navy does a very good job of cleaning them out and putting them down to become, you know, carbon sinks our tourism

spk_0:   55:27
sites. Thanks for answering that question. That's I would hope that I didn't get murdered. Man, you're just you. Thanks. I You know, I say this all the time when I'm interviewing guests. Is that like there's areas of science and areas of what people study that are just outside everybody's knowledge and in your area is just so interesting. I could probably have a 1,000,000 more questions for you, but we're at the end of the interview, said, Where can people find you on social media somewhere, you know?

spk_1:   55:57
Yeah, they absolutely can. Now it's mostly pictures cause I'm just writing my thesis, and I'm not allowed to share any images from that right now, so it's mostly pictures of mocha or tea. I think my daily cup of tea while I'm writing, but they can find me on Instagram at the double finned Mermaid, or I think it's just double finned Mermaid. And then on Twitter at Poets Pub. And those both of those air sort of reminiscent of, um, awkward old blog's that when I wanted Anonima Di before I embraced sort of science communication. So I don't know, maybe those air change someday, but for now, those air that's people confined,

spk_0:   56:31
we'll make sure those links are in the podcast. Show notes. So people could just find you think has been just amazing discussion. Thanks so much for agreeing to talk to us, giving me a lot.

spk_1:   56:42
Thank you for having me. People

spk_0:   56:45
at home are also thinking about, um, the ocean and history.

spk_1:   56:49
If I could just end with one more little note, um, I would like to say no, no, because for someone even like yourself, you're saying you've always been landlocked. You live in Alberta offered, has some great trees, right, like really nice tall trees. So you actually have a tie to maritime culture because those trees would probably at some point could or would have been used to build boats like ships. Um, so people often wonder like, you know, I'm living way in land this doesn't pertain to me if you eat fish, You're part of maritime culture. If you have a seashell anywhere in your house, you've got maritime culture. If you have beautiful, tall, evergreen trees nearby that's gotta linked to maritime culture. So yeah, everybody is sort of very much tied together by the sea.

spk_0:   57:36
Ah, what a great way to end the podcast. Love it. Well, thanks so much. No, Take care. Keep yourself safe. Hey, with what's happening with covert 19 everywhere. Yeah, good luck on your thesis. I can't wait to keep. We're going to keep following and see what happens with your journey through research and and what you discover. I'm so excited to see what happens with that World War two wreck you're talking about. Thank you. Hey, everybody. I just want to give you a little word from our partner this week. And that's genius lab gear dot com genius lab here has a bunch of unique items that you could purchase that are all science related at genius lab here dot com. If you use the code Bunsen 10 you'll get 10% off dog bandannas. They're awesome sticker line. And these all these amazing wallet size stencils for doing all things SCI, including organic molecules. They're adorable, and they're great gifts for any science enthusiasts that you know. There's also a link in the show notes that will automatically give you 10% off. So check it out. That's genius lab gear dot com. It's time for war. Wow. On the science podcast today and I have been rather from Georgia with me this morning. How you doing today, Ben? Doing alright? How are you? I'm so good. So this is round two of you being a co host for were while you're one of our patrons on the patriot on page. Are you doing well with all of the Corona virus stuff doing all right? It's not been major case down here. Um, I live near Atlanta. We had a major case. Something was Augusta has been like the big hot spot for us down here, which is a couple hours away. But in my little part of the state, we've been we've been good so far. Only Ah, I think we one reported death and we've had a few cases, but nothing doesn't to extreme That's similar to where we live in Alberta, like we live in central Alberta in the central region, has almost, like, got no active cases. But just south of us in the big city Calgary they've had an explosion in the last two or three days from a meat plant whirling. Ah, 100. Hundreds of people got Krone virus from working so close in this big meat plant that's in Brooks. And then people were traveling from Brooks to Calgary because they live in Calgary and the working Brooks. So that's the big problem with this. Thing is, it just takes a few sick people to spread it so quickly. So it's just, especially since you can spread it without even knowing you. You have it. So yeah, but I'm so glad you and your family or doing well, it's awesome. So are you ready for some were Wow, I'm ready. Let's let's make this happen now for people at home. Ben's been on before and he got the last one, right? So we're baton 100%. I'm ready. Okay. So the theme this week is the ocean. The guests on the podcast this week is Chanel Zap and she is a ocean archaeologist are a maritime Maritime archaeologist. So it's all about the ocean. Okay, Okay. Now is I want to say Georgia, does Georgia border on the ocean like Are you got? You guys are on the east coast of the United States. We are the along the East coast. So we have the Atlantic Ocean. Not too too far from where I met Atlanta's kind of towards the middle of the state. But we're a couple hours from the ocean at most. So we ah, we definitely have have some waves that we could go hit when, uh, when we need to. Nice is Do you go there with your family? Like, Is that a trip that you guys take? We haven't in a while, but yes, we've We've gone. I've mentioned this before in the podcast like Alberta, Canada. So big, right. And where Alberta is, even though we're only one province away from the ocean, it's like a 14 hour drive, 15 or 16 hour drive to get there. So, anyways, anytime I I talked to people who live near the ocean, I always I'm a little jealous, so I'm a little jealous. Have you been Well, I will. I will make sure to enjoy extra next time I go so that ah, you could be there in spirit. Thank you. I live vicariously through that. That's an awesome All right, So I'm onto were, well, just a reminder we were while I will be reading three statements to the more fake and one of them is true. So just a reminder. You have to try and find the the rial statement among the fake statements. Here's open. Okay, here's the first statement. Though trees do produce oxygen for the planet through photosynthesis, it is within the ocean that the majority of oxygen on earth is made. When I read the 2nd 1 or do you want to parse out that 1st 1 for a bit? I am. I don't know which way to go in the 1st 1 So let's let's see what the 2nd 1 holds. Maybe Aiken tried heroin. My options down from there. Okay. Water deep under the ocean is very close to freezing, but in certain places it could be a lot hotter, like near hydrothermal vents. The temperature near hydrothermal events is always between 80 to 100 degrees Celsius, or around 2 12 F. okay. That didn't help me narrow anything down for his events. I'm just not sure if if saying they have, like, consistent temperature would be true or not like it. I wouldn't say it's possible that it could vary. Okay. All right. All right. Last statement. There are only 30,000 shipwrecks total in the ocean, and these stretch back in time to the first ship voyages that were recorded. So that's the 30,000 doesn't include pre, you know, like harbors that would record ships that would leave. And Joe, sailor man who went out fishing and lost his boat and nobody knew about it. So there are just over 30,000 shipwrecks total in the ocean. OK, Do you want me to recap? Yes, please. Okay. First statement, though trees do produce oxygen for the planet. It's within the ocean that the majority of oxygen on earth is made. Statement to water deep under the ocean is usually very close to freezing, but near hydrothermal vents, it can get close to or be between 80 to 100 degrees Celsius. Or that's around 2 12 F. And the last statement there are just over around 30,000 shipwrecks total in the ocean. J I'm going. I'm going to use my expert knowledge of not knowing anything about the ocean. No try. And near the state, I, uh I'm gonna lean away from the shipwreck, so I'm gonna say ship the shipwrecks is woo. I want to think that there are fewer. There's that soc case. And now we're down to two. That's not bad. So we got thermal. The thermal vents are between 30 Teoh nursery, 80 toe 100 Celsius or around 2 12 And then there's the ocean that makes most of the oxygen on earth within the ocean. I think we're going to go with being, um, first when the majority of oxygen's made in the ocean. Because it's it's big. There are plants. There's oxygen is part of water, right? H 20 So we'll go with that. I'm gonna say number ones the while. Okay. Final answer. Lock in That. That that that lets Luckett in. Punch it down. Let's do this. Yeah, Uh, OK, let's take a look at the third statement because you are pretty sure that one was fake. There are just over 30,000 shipwrecks total in the ocean That statement is wound. So you're right. That one is one of the week statements. Now it's shocking. You are right. But for the wrong reason. There are over three million shipwrecks in the ocean since seafaring people started to record when they were leaving. That's a shocking number. Hey, that he is Wow. Oh, yeah. Three million. That's that's not so. Let's take a look at the second statement. It's the one about the hydrothermal vents. You said that one was, Woo. Not really sure. Why Mostly got but 2 12 F soon. Kind of hot as well. But I'm really hoping my gut. Let me let me right on this one. So the second statement is Woo, you've won again, Ben. Good job T to Ah, And that second statement, hydrothermal vents actually get way hotter than 212 F or 100 degrees Celsius. They get up to 400 Celsius or 750 Fahrenheit. Um, and the reason like yeah, the reason why I get so hot is just due to the pressure, um, way deep, Deep, deep under the ocean, the water is squishing all of the molecules together, so it doesn't boil. The water just gets superheated around these thermal thermal vents and the way to think of it as like, I don't know how much hiking in the mountains you've ever done and you've been camped. But when I have camped in the mountains, we're in a much, much higher elevation, and water boils at much lower temperature, cause there's less pressure on it. The molecules are easier to spread apart, and it sucks toe boil anything because you've got a cook stuff for twice as long because the water is not very hot, it's boiling, but it might be boiling at much less than 2 12 F or 100 Celsius. Well, is this this water in the ocean is extremely hot, so you got that one awesome. Now all the pressure of ever come back because, you know, going to for two. That's that. That increases the, uh, the pressure, and it is true. Most of the oxygen in our atmosphere comes from the ocean, and it's the tiny marine plants called phytoplankton, or algae, or plankton or algal plankton. Those air, the little tiny microscopic organisms that are photosynthetic and they produce a shocking amount of our oxygen, 70% of our atmosphere's oxygen. So when When I guess when biologists and marine biologists and everybody talks about how important the ocean is, it's really hard to connect to how important it is. But if you tell people the ocean produces 70% of our oxygen, that can really make it a little bit more important for people to think about on a daily basis. Yeah, definitely will. Ah, we'll keep that in mind the next time I'm at the ocean. Um, that is super important that that we keep those plants in there. Yeah, exactly. It's hard to wrap your head around, um, the ocean, especially if you're not on it on a daily basis, like even though you are close to the ocean, unless you're around the economy of the ocean or you're part of the science that studies studies that it's it's It's like, Oh, I go there and it's nice and then you go home. But it's just so important to the Earth. Um, the group of kids We were supposed to take some kids Teoh, the Marine Biology Center on Vancouver Island, but we had to cut school, got canceled all that got shut down. But that's the main thing that these kids come back with. Its just how important the ocean is the life on earth and such a good message. It really is. And hopefully that will help get circulated and nearly kind of help with the conservation efforts for the ah, aquatic life. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, Exactly. Yeah. Good point, Ben. All right, two for two, sir. Thank you for joining me for were, well, being a co host. Everybody's gonna be very jealous of your win streak. Especially some of the teachers at Lindsay Thurber. Well, thank you very much for having me back again. It was very fun. And educational again is always You bet we'll make sure we'll have you on as we continue. Teoh, do the podcast. Toobin. All right, take care. You have yourself a good day and stay safe with Corona virus, right? You to stay safe up there. You and the family and Bunsen. Yeah, you betcha. He is. He still we find he's sleeping on the floor because he is a couch potato. So he's good man. After my own heart, we've come to the end of another podcast episode. Thanks so much for coming back week after week. Toe. Listen, tow us. I'd like to give a showed up to our top tier patrons on Patri on who just helped make the podcast run just that much smoother. They are Andrea Persons, Bianca Hide, Brooke LaValle, Oh, Daniel Frye, Elizabeth Bourgeois, Judith Morton, Karen Beth ST George, Katherine Lynch, Kathleen's Worker, Mary Couscous, Marianne McNally, Ben Wrath, ERT, Liz Button and Rebecca Rutherford. Thanks so much for your patronage. If you want to hear your name, said in the podcast, head over to our patri on page. You can find a link to it in the show. Notes. Also special thanks to our expert this week. Chanel Zap, the Maritime Archaeologist. It really opened my eyes to just some really crazy stuff you can do in science. That isn't something you might think is mainstream. All right, we'll close with Munson's motto for science, empathy and acuteness.