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The Science Pawdcast
The Science Pawdcast breaks down the latest science happening in the human world AND the pet world.
Each episode will also bring you a guest to enthral you with their area of knowledge.
You'll learn, be captivated, and laugh along with host Jason Zackowski.
Pets and Science, it's the pawfect mix.
You'll also get episodes of PetChat which are the live shows from social audio.
PetChat is a live community gathering updates about the animals in our life, but also the animals in the wonderful community that supports us!
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Science and Shenanigans.
The Science Pawdcast
Episode 25 Season 7: Meat Eater Wins, Cat Dementia, and Cydian Kauffman on Water Quality
The Science Podcast explores surprising research that challenges conventional wisdom about dietary protein and cancer mortality while also examining how cats with dementia could unlock mysteries of human Alzheimer's disease. Water expert Cydian Kauffman reveals shocking truths about drinking water safety standards and the presence of "forever chemicals" in our water supply.
• New study shows animal protein may have a slight protective effect against cancer mortality
• Research contradicts previous findings that animal protein increases death risk
• Plant protein showed no association with mortality rates from any cause
• Cats naturally develop amyloid beta plaques similar to those in human Alzheimer's patients
• Studying feline dementia could lead to breakthroughs for both species
• EPA's legal limits for water contaminants are higher than health limits due to cost considerations
• PFAS "forever chemicals" present in water at extremely low but harmful concentrations
• Reverse osmosis systems now more affordable for home water treatment
• Water access directly impacts gender equality in developing regions
• Testing well water crucial as dangerous contaminants like arsenic are odorless and tasteless
Pure Water Northwest
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Hello science enthusiasts. I'm Jason Zukoski. And I'm Chris Zukoski, we're the pet parents of Bunsen, beaker, bernoulli and Ginger.
Speaker 2:The science animals on social media.
Speaker 1:If you love science.
Speaker 2:And you love pets.
Speaker 1:You've come to the right spot, so put on your safety glasses and hold on to your tail. This is the Science Podcast. Hello and welcome back to the Science Podcast. We hope you're happy and healthy out there. This is episode 25 of season seven. So, chris, we didn't do a show last week. It was a gong show. What was going on? Why was there not a show last week?
Speaker 2:Jason. There was a show last week and it was a gong because gong show. We were packaging up our Bernoulli stuffies and it was a lot of work and there was no extra time to spare. We wanted to make sure that we beat the time, beat the clock to get them out to our customers in a timely fashion.
Speaker 1:Exactly, we had a really big response to the Bernoulli stuffy Not to make the whole front of this about the Bernoulli stuffy but we spent four days solid packing. It was a lot of work but it was very rewarding. And we had to beat the clock, as you said, to get all of the American packages to the border before de minimis ends, which means that the Americans will no longer be able to bring in under $800 without duties and tariffs. So we were racing against the clock, clock, and it looks like we made it by the hair of our chinny chin.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was pretty incredible. We I cannot believe how well we worked together. Actually, I know how well we worked together because we just worked well together, but it was a lot. It was a lot of printing and organization and being tired and just, it was a lot. It was a lot of printing and organization and being tired and just it was a good time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and the other thing that compounded everything, too, is school is starting again, right, you have kids tomorrow, and that's another thing that started up again. So it's been a very busy week. We carved out some time tonight I think we should get to it. We have two science articles and we have a guest this week. So one of the science articles we'll be talking about is a rather shocking study about how about what we eat affects all cause of death and cancer. So all cause of death is sometimes called all cause mortality. I don't want to give it away, so that's the lead there. And in pet science, we're going to be looking at linkages between dementia in humans and dementia in cats both very sad and tragic conditions, but from one we could learn the other. And our guest today is a water expert, and we're going to be talking about potential issues lurking in groundwater and also bust some of the myths or not. It's a great discussion and we haven't had a science guest in a while. Chris, what time is it?
Speaker 2:Jason, it's science time this week in a while. Chris, what time is it? Jason? It's science time this week in science news.
Speaker 1:This science study really hammers home. You are what you eat, from your head to your feet.
Speaker 2:Hey, Jason, that's my line. That's my line I always say that you are what you eat, from your head to your feet.
Speaker 1:We've talked about this before. You are a lacto-ovo-vegetarian?
Speaker 2:Yes, I am.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you have egg products and you have milk products, but you do not eat animal flesh. If that's not too graphic, Is that how you characterize it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then I eat plant protein as well.
Speaker 1:I am a meatitarian. No, I eat anything. I really do eat pretty much anything. There's only a few things on this earth I've eaten which I've been like. That's okay, I don't need to eat that again. Eggplant is one of them.
Speaker 2:Eggplant is one of them. I made a delicious I don't even know eggplant dish and Jason said no, thank you. You were very polite, but you said maybe let's not make that one again. It's very salty, probably because of the Parmesan cheese I put on it.
Speaker 1:All right. So this study comes from the National Health and Nutrition Examination Study and there were 15,937 people in the study aged 19 plus and sadly, as you look at these long range studies, 3,843 people died during the follow-up period.
Speaker 2:So the idea was looking at the people who lived and the people who died their lifestyle, but also, more specifically, to the study what they ate. Yeah, and the methods were pretty simple. The participants reported what they ate in a 24-hour survey and then scientists used advanced math models to reduce errors from self-reporting, because when you're talking about yourself, there sometimes is some bias. They divided the proteins into categories, so animal protein being from meat, dairy and eggs, plant protein was from beans, grains and nuts, and then there were mixed foods.
Speaker 1:Also within the study. They wanted to test this is a subgroup of people in the study whether IGF-1, which is a hormone linked to growth and sometimes cancer risk, was related to dying early. So there's the methods. You talked about the food thing, and then there was also a subgroup of people where they looked at this growth hormone. And then there was also a subgroup of people where they looked at this growth hormone. Igf1, one helps you grow, but if it sticks around too long in adults it has like anabolic effects and it's really related to insulin. So potentially down the line that could cause problems. So they were looking at that.
Speaker 1:So some of the key findings from all cause mortality, that's, death for many reason. The people who had animal protein within their diet had no association. No association means more or less. This did not make people more or less likely to die, so eating more or less of animal protein didn't change the overall risk of dying from any cause, and plant protein had no association at all. Same result no impact on lifespan overall, which is a little counterintuitive, because some studies I've read or some suggestions I've read is that people who are vegetarian and do not eat red meat or animal protein tend to live longer. Not so much in this case.
Speaker 2:So the next one that they looked at was a CVD mortality rate, and that's death from a heart attack, stroke or clogged arteries, and they found that protein animal protein had no association, again, Again, more or less didn't affect their heart-related death risk, and that's interesting, as well as plant protein no association, same, no effect. Super interesting.
Speaker 1:Now the next one is maybe going to ruffle some feathers, and that was cancer mortality, so death from cancer. Animal protein in this study had a slight protective effect. People who ate more animal protein had a small but a very real decrease in cancer-related deaths. Plant protein had no association. Eating plant protein didn't increase or decrease your chance of cancer death. Again, that's shocking. I'm not going to lie.
Speaker 2:I know. So maybe the whole idea is that you're just eating a well-balanced, well-rounded diet.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and the last one, that special subgroup, igf-1,. That had no association as well. So higher or lower IGF-1 levels weren't linked to more or fewer deaths. All cause mortality, cancer, heart-related, nothing. It just didn't seem to relate.
Speaker 2:And so, just to recap, everything had no association, except for the animal protein which had a slight protective effect. So people who were eating more animal protein had a small but real decrease in cancer deaths.
Speaker 1:Now, if we compare this to this other study that's very famous that was in 2014, which concluded, or claimed, animal protein raised death risk, especially cancer this study that we just talked about, they're using the same data set from the National Health and Nutrition Examination Study. That same data set ran from 1988 to 1994, and then through a follow-up period up to 2006. This study used the same data as that other one, but it used better math models.
Speaker 2:Yeah, better methods.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it didn't confirm those other results.
Speaker 2:Was there a difference for age, age of the participants? So we talked about the adults had to be 19 plus to participate. But is there a difference in the results for different ages?
Speaker 1:No, there's no difference. No age group showed harm from eating more protein. No age group showed harm from eating plant protein. And in that previous study that linked kind of middle-aged folks 50 to 65, to an increased risk of death from eating animal protein, the study found no increased risk. So the devil's in the details.
Speaker 2:Sometimes it's about how you do your math, I think it's important to keep some limitations of the study in mind. Like I said earlier, the food intake was self-reported and people often under-report what they eat. I know if I'm trying to keep track on my fitness app sometimes I don't do it daily. The IGF-1 was realistically from a smaller subset of the participants, so the data may or may not be. There may or may not be enough data to make a generalization, and the follow-up stopped in 2006. Jason, that's a long time ago.
Speaker 3:I know, I just feel like the 90s.
Speaker 2:I do I feel like it was yesterday, but 2006 is a little bit far away from where we are now, so more recent data could add more insights.
Speaker 1:That's what I'm interested in is like the data up to now, because that other study that said animal protein bad. We also use the older data and this studies is animal protein not so bad. Use older data. We need some newer data in the study use older data.
Speaker 2:We need some newer data in the study. Yeah, because you know it. That data did not test what happens if you swap animal protein for plant protein you start your life eating lots of red meat and then you switch to legumes or if you start eating chicken m McNuggets and then you switch to chickpeas.
Speaker 1:Ah, gotcha, I do have to say some of your fakie fake meat tastes pretty good. Some of it is very bad, like they're not fooling anybody. The Beyond Meat burgery things that you get, those are tasty Like they're good they certainly don't taste like a ham.
Speaker 3:Okay, whatever they are.
Speaker 1:They're good. Those are tasty, like they're good. They certainly don't taste like a hamburger. Okay, whatever they are, they're good. I like them when we make them, I love them. They're actually quite good, but they don't taste like a hamburger. So, while they're really yummy, they don't taste like a hamburger. And then I think some of the other stuff has a long way to go, because every bite just tastes like cardboard. All right, that's science news for this week. This week in pet science we're going to be looking at cats that get dementia and how studying them could help humans when we get dementia. Now, none of my family older folks got dementia, but I do know some people who are dealing with that right now with their older family members, and I don't want to make light of it because it's rough, it's bad. I've seen the TikTok videos. I've heard some of my colleagues talk about it. So, yeah, if you're going through that while we're going to be talking about in the study, I just want you to know that I do see it as being really tough to live through.
Speaker 2:It is One of my colleagues. He went through that with his parents and then his wife has something similar with her parents.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's tough. So in this study we're looking at data from the European Journal of Neuroscience and it's basically talking about how Alzheimer'sheimer's disease, dementia and dementia related disease in humans. Um, similar structures are found in the brains of aging cats. Now, as cats get older, they start to they may start to have some of these behaviors. Did you, did any of your cats start to get dementia as they got older?
Speaker 2:I don't believe so. Poco was basically the same when she was a kitten to when she was in her 20s, and Liebe, I don't believe, had forms of dementia, but she did have like incontinence and other issues that happened at the end of her life. One thing that you could look for, though, is, as cats get older, they yowl more at night, and so those could be loud, distressed vocalizations. When they're yowling, they could have trouble sleeping, or they could sleep too much, and you think how can a cat sleep too much? Don't they sleep like 24 hours a day? If your cat's sleeping 24 hours a day, that's a little bit much, and they might show signs of being confused or disoriented.
Speaker 1:So there's these plaques called amyloid beta plaques. They're sticky clumps and we see them in the brains of folks with Alzheimer's. Similar or identical are found in the brains of aging cats and these proteins build up and they cause, like an unfortunate chain reaction of brain problems, like overstimulation or overactivation of immune cells. And of course, if you overstimulate immune cells, those can damage brain cells and they overactivate supporting brain cells and those cells. Instead of helping you out, they may attack the synapses those are the connections between the nerve cells, and as those break, damage or die, then you start to have some of the symptoms of dementia.
Speaker 2:Yeah, jason, that's super interesting, and I want to talk about how the study was done. The researchers studied the post-mortem brains of seven young cats and that makes me sad that seven young cats passed away and 18 older cats were also studied, which included eight with dementia-like behaviors. They used fluorescent markers to detect those amyloid beta proteins and they compared the protein buildup in younger versus older cat brains. What they found is in the aged cats, with or without the dementia symptoms, had more amyloid beta than younger cats and the plaques often accumulated near the synapses, which is the spots where the neurons communicate. Additionally, they found that the immune cells in aged cats' brains the cell called the microglia, the cells that regulate the inflammation, and then another immune cell called the astrocyte, which is a cell that maintains brain stability both were hyperactive in aged cats' brains and they were clustered near the amyloid plaques. So instead of just attacking the plaques, they also damage the synapses, and sadly I guess it's not really sadly, because it's contributing to scientific knowledge this pattern closely matches what happens in human Alzheimer's brains.
Speaker 1:And one of the reasons why it's interesting and important to study dogs and cats and other animals is when you find an analog meaning that you find something in the cat that happens in humans. There may be breakthroughs. I just have to think back to insulin, right Like in this, discovery of insulin came from studying dogs. That was the breakthrough. That didn't necessarily cure but saved everybody who had type one diabetes from dying because they just died. There was no cure for it.
Speaker 1:And so this study shows that cats do develop dementia, like brain changes with age, and it's a model close to Alzheimer's than many other animals age. And it's a model close to Alzheimer's than many other animals, including lab mice. And you must you actually have to genetically engineer mice to get Alzheimer's, but cats just develop it. Some do spontaneously as they age. So it makes them a really good natural comparison.
Speaker 1:The more we study this and understand feline dementia, of course that might improve the quality of life for older cats, but there may be spillover in the human world into the progression and study of Alzheimer's disease. So I guess, as we wrap it up, I think if one of our dogs got dementia that'd be very sad. I know there's a lady that we know and her friend had a dog with dementia and he struggled really bad in the last couple weeks of his life with like diarrhea and things like that. Didn't know where he was. So it's stressful having pets with dementia and of course, folks with dementia eventually become institutionalized or you have. They require 24-hour care. It's a great area to study to potentially lessen the symptoms and suffering.
Speaker 2:I really like this study because it talks about the spillover between cat health and human health and I just really am interested in more examples of that for people potentially not with dementia, but with Parkinson's or with other types of diseases, so we can learn more about those diseases and progression in humans in comparison to our pets or animals.
Speaker 1:That's pet science for this week. Hello everybody, here's some ways you can keep the science podcast free. Number one in our show notes sign up to be a member of our paw pack plus community. It's an amazing community of folks who love pets and folks who love science. We have tons of bonus Bunsen and Beaker content there and we have live streams every Sunday with our community. It's tons of fun. Also, think about checking out our merch store. We've got the Bunsen stuffy, the Beaker stuffy and now the Ginger stuffy. That's right, ginger, the science cat, has a little replica. It's adorable. It's so soft, with the giant fluffy tail, safety glasses and a lab coat. And number three if you're listening to the podcast on any place that rates podcasts, give us a great rating and tell your family and friends to listen to. Okay, on with the show. Back to the interviews. It's time for Ask an Expert on the Science Podcast, and I have Sidian Kaufman, the owner of Pure Water Northwest, with us today. Sidian, how are you doing?
Speaker 3:I'm great Thanks for having me on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, where are you calling into the show from? Where are you in the world?
Speaker 2:Seattle.
Speaker 1:Oh, seattle, okay. So we were on the West Coast a couple months ago. Oh, okay, of Canada, of course. So I'm Canadian and we went to Vancouver Island. But Seattle's pretty far West for Americans. I mean, I guess you could go to Hawaii, that's the furthest West you could go. Have you lived in Seattle most of your life?
Speaker 3:I have. Yeah, my parents moved me here when I was nine from California and I've been here over 40 years now.
Speaker 1:Oh I've. I visited Seattle a my a couple times in my life. I think it's a cool city. Never rained when I was there, so is the rain a myth, or does it rain quite a bit?
Speaker 3:it rains quite a bit, but like it's different. If you want to know the truth, this rain is rain where and seattle lights almost never use umbrellas. Right, some of them are. Some of them are very proud of the fact that they don't use umbrellas, but if you think about it, if you're in the midwest and it rains, it's like god turned a bucket upside down on your head.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, you gotta.
Speaker 3:You got to use an umbrella there. We almost never get rain like that in Seattle. The rainfall can definitely be worse elsewhere. Here it rains more often than other places, but not necessarily as much.
Speaker 1:I tease some of our friends and family who are on the west coast of Canada because they talk about the wet cold, because we have, in Alberta, freezing temperatures in the winter and they're like, oh, it might be minus 40 Celsius, but it's nothing like the wet cold we have on the coast, and I'm like really so when they talk about the rain, I'm like you guys don't know what you're talking about. You guys have wet rain, we have the dry rain and it is so much worse. Yeah, and they don't like that.
Speaker 1:So it's just a little fun tidbit. So I introduced you as the owner of Pure Water Northwest. I was wondering, just for our audience could you talk a little bit about your training in science and maybe what that is?
Speaker 3:What is Pure Water Northwest? Yeah, it's a science-based water treatment company, and what that really means is that we focus on water first rather than product first, similar to how a doctor might diagnose an illness we look at what's in the water, identify contaminants and then customize a treatment system, and what that means, too, is we're running into a lot of the questions people have about what's in their water gets thrown at us in a lot of different ways, from expectations that the water is already good to expectations that the water is bad, and very often, people are wrong about either.
Speaker 3:And it's an interesting viewpoint to take things from, versus just trying to sell a system to somebody.
Speaker 1:Gotcha Now in the United States you guys have the EPA, right, that's the, your environmental protection agency.
Speaker 3:That's right yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know what we have in up in canada yeah, it's the health authority there.
Speaker 3:I think it's called health canada, right health can?
Speaker 1:I was gonna say it's health canada. That sounds very canadian, because health canada controls everything. As we have somebody on that deals with that, I was wondering if you could talk to us a little bit, because I'm sure there's misinformation out there about what the epa drinking standards are for water.
Speaker 3:Water drinking, yep they have a similar thing going on in canada. The epa has the mcl, which stands for maximum contaminant level yeah and the in canada, the MAC, which is maximum acceptable concentration.
Speaker 3:So their legal enforceable limit. For example, in the US you're technically allowed to have 15 parts per billion of lead and that'd be like 15 drops in an Olympic-sized swimming pool. That would be the legal limit. In Canada, it's five right and the health limit for those, however, is zero. So they have a health limit that is different from the legal limit, which surprises a lot of people when they learn that. It surprised the heck out of me. When I learned that seven years ago I was like what? How is that possible that the legal limit is not equal to the health?
Speaker 1:limit. What's the rationale? I'm a little stunned too. What's the rationale for that?
Speaker 3:I don't know what it is in Canada, but I imagine it's a similar thing In the US. The EPA actually says very clearly in writing that the MCL is set as close to the MCLG, which is the word for the health level. The MCL is set as close to the health level as possible, taking costs and other factors into consideration. Those other factors are infrastructure and available technology, but mostly it's cost. It's that in order to get lead down to zero, it is nearly impossible to perfect the water to the point where it's not going to strip some lead off of pipes as it's traveling through plumbing. Old plumbing Infrastructure would have to be completely overhauled.
Speaker 3:The treatment at the factory, the water treatment plant, would have to be probably I don't know quintupled in size. People's water bill would probably 10x in order to achieve that five part per billion or 10 part per million billion difference. And in the US the EPA actually says that homeowners are going to have the responsibility if they want it to be lower than that. They have the responsibility to put a system into their house to get it lower than that.
Speaker 1:So the question I have as a follow-up is 15 parts per billion safe If the health is zero? If you drink that your whole life and you drink 15 parts per billion lead, is that going to be a detriment to you?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, if you're right at the limit there and you're doing that for a long time and you are particularly vulnerable to it, you will notice it in your lifetime. Yeah, but there is a reason why that is the limit it's going to. As a cross section of most people, it is going to capture most people and if they do that, only that for their whole lifetime, most people will probably be fine, but some people won't be. It is a cross section. It is about luck. Basically, I put it this way If you don't filter your water, you are the filter, and that is a stark reality.
Speaker 3:Now, there are tons of people who have had drunk a ton of lead in their life and they're fine, and that is also a stark reality. The body is an amazing homeostasis engine and it is doing its job to keep you balanced. And so, yeah, there's going to be a lot of people who can drink way more lead than that, but there's going to be some people of people who can drink way more lead than that, but there's gonna be some people who are less.
Speaker 1:It's like somebody knows their, their crotchety old grandpa or grandma that drank and smoked and they live to be 102 that's real. Yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah, okay, so that's interesting to know. It would be. I'm on, we're on well water here, hey, like we get our water right from underground sources.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I don't think we had. When I do a test of well water.
Speaker 3:I'm looking at 50 different contaminants, not three or four that they usually do when a real estate transaction goes through. My wife's Canadian and their parents don't drink their water and I've tried to get them a system. We'll see if that happens one day, but they're just so used to not drinking their water because they know how much arsenic they have in that water, but a lot of people don't, and arsenic is going to hide from you.
Speaker 3:Cyanide's the same way it's flavorless, it's odorless, it's not going to let you know that it's there until it causes organ failure or cancer great, okay, so yeah, it's one of those things that a high percentage at least in our area, at least 80 percent of wells have some level of arsenic.
Speaker 3:There is 80. There is no safe level of arsenic. The health guideline for it is A lot of people are drinking it and they're just having their body be the filter and they're okay. It gets too high and then it can get really dangerous. In the US, 10 parts per billion is the legal limit, so that's 0.01 parts per million, and the truth is that it's usually very cheap to find a full-spectrum test. I think Tapscorecom sells them for $200 for 50 different tests all in one panel $200 US. I don't know what it would be up there $2,000 Canadian.
Speaker 1:No, I'm just kidding $2,000 Canadian. No, the dollar's not that bad.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So the, yeah, the, the thing I would do if I owned a wellness, I would do a full spectrum panel. No, matter what.
Speaker 1:This is just becoming my own interest instead of thinking about our listeners. But when you get that, is it? You just get to do a little chemistry at home, or you take the sample and send it away yeah, you send it away, yeah oh, dang it. See, there you go, I'm, I'm. I have background in chemistry. I teach chemistry in high school, okay, so that would be fun to do my own. I don't have enough chemicals to do 50 different tests on our well water, but no, yeah, and arsenic.
Speaker 3:You've got to do a burn test. You've got to burn off stuff and then suspend in an oil solution and then do titration. So it's complex and with your background you probably could do it, but they certainly wouldn't trust anyone to do it.
Speaker 1:Gotcha, gotcha. Okay, all right. So beyond lead and arsenic, are there anything else, anything else we should be worried about? Or are there things that people think that we should be worried about but maybe aren't as big a culprit, if you know what I mean?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so here's the problem. Problem. I can go on and on about things to worry about and I worry about doing that because I think it gives people fatigue and then they're like, oh, I don't want to worry about any of it. It's usually best for people and I'll do it, I don't mind for your podcast, but I think it's best to ask people to just go get their water tested so they know for sure, because I like to follow a test don't guess model and then, after you get results, the lab who did it for you can help you. If your listeners want to call me with some quick questions, I don't mind. The thing I just want people to do is test their waters. They don't guess what they're drinking about, especially if they have children. But, yeah, pfas, that's forever chemicals.
Speaker 3:There's about 14,000 to 16,000 of those. One recent study said there could be over 700,000 different, 170,000 different variations, but we know of at least 14 to 16,000. Only six out of those have been carefully identified as to whether they are of a health concern, and all six of those have shown health concerns at incredibly small amounts. So four parts per trillion, whoa? Yeah, so we were talking about. Parts per Whoa. Yeah, so we were talking about parts per billion before. Yeah, and if you can imagine a thousand Olympic size swimming pools, four drops in that is considered to be a health concern.
Speaker 1:The NP fast. For people who are listening, those are those polyfluoroalkyl sub things, polyfluoroalkyl substances there. That's where the s and p fast comes yeah exactly.
Speaker 3:You come from a random assortment of stuff that we've made and put chemicals, man-made chemicals that are designed to basically cause things to be resistant, so water resistance. They are used in fire foam specifically because they're so hard to break down. They will smother fire that water can't. They are called forever chemicals because they go on and on. The most recent process that I've heard someone theorizing for destroying these because currently we don't have an amazing way to destroy these is cold plasma. Oh my God, yeah, that's expensive.
Speaker 1:And we might just need to wait about 20 or 30 years and use a private rocket to send it into the sun. That might be cheaper.
Speaker 3:Yes, yeah, no doubt.
Speaker 1:No doubt. And those PFAS, of course, they get into our drinking water and we drink it. Yeah, no doubt, no doubt. And those PFAS, of course they get into our drinking water and we drink it. And it's spooky because we don't really know how bad it could be. That's what I've read, I think.
Speaker 3:That's right. That's exactly right. We know there are health concerns. We don't know how bad they're going to be. So we are. You know we're playing with this unknown and the thing is the solution is so easy for people. Whole house systems can be better for PFOS because there is some indication that skin contact can be of concern now. But drinking is definitely of concern and a simple $1,000 installed under counter reverse osmosis will do the trick. So to me, that's something people should be looking at.
Speaker 1:When you have your water tested, do they test for PFAS, or is that too hard to test for?
Speaker 3:It's really hard to test for. And this is the problem with pfos. Right is that is that you do 16, you do you take samples from 15, 16 different locations frequently to do pfos testing. You can't wear perfume or anything because it can screw up the sample. And then you cap them and then out of those 16, a certain number of them show for pfos. That's how you know you have it, because it's really hard to find in the water.
Speaker 1:Four drops per thousand swimming pools.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly, it's hard to just find it and they did a very elaborate study recently with 19 different river sources and they found it 98% of the time in that situation.
Speaker 1:Oof.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so it's kind of work.
Speaker 1:At the point we just have to assume it's there.
Speaker 3:I would. Yes, I would be assuming it's there, because municipalities are finding it and then pronouncing yes, it has been found. And unfortunately, the EPA standards of four part per trillion is not enforceable under this administration until 2031. So these municipalities now get to say, yes, we found it, but we're within legal levels, which is such a tricky thing to say given that-.
Speaker 1:There's no enforcement, so they're within any legal limit, right, exactly? Yep, oh man, that's a little bit. Of lawyer speak there, some political speak yeah, it's scary because it gosh.
Speaker 3:I'm not trying to be all doomsday, but it's scary because if you go that route and you, you let everyone know yes, there's unhealthy amounts of PFAS in the water. No, we can't get rid of it. Yet People now are going to start drinking more bottled water. What a billion bottles of water consumed every single day on this planet. So that's a lot. That's a lot of plastic usage, a lot of microplastics, with something like 300,000 straws thrown away, and straws currently cannot be with current technology, cannot be recycled, cannot be with current technology, cannot be recycled. So it becomes a whole thing.
Speaker 1:There's definitely a. It's good our planet is as big as it is. Yeah, okay, let's I have a question for you. That's, maybe we can talk about something. It is good information to tell people about some of these things and have it in the back of their mind, and if folks do have the money, they could think about that. Reverse osmosis right, yeah, are there. Do some people think water's worse than it is? And they're wrong. What are some of the myths that are maybe a good news myth? Right, yeah, that's a good way to go Fluoride.
Speaker 3:Some people think fluoride's really bad. Fluoride has been shown to cause some IQ loss at some levels. These studies are really like massively low amounts. Fluoride is not necessarily that good for you or that bad for you. It's of little concern and the fluoride levels are like in Scandinavian countries. They don't fluoridate and they have better teeth outcomes, but they also don't use sugar. So is fluoride needed? We don't know. But if people have fluoride in their water, it's not. In my opinion it's not of a major concern.
Speaker 3:Some people are worried about pharmaceuticals in the water. There are a ton of pharmaceuticals in the water, that is true, and that is because people excrete that through their urine and then it's recycled. But it takes a lot of really high levels of that stuff to start affecting people. Hormonal and thyroid changes require pretty large numbers, which can happen, but it's not super likely. So I'm not as worried about that kind of thing and to me the best news about water treatment is, if you're handy, you can even get those ROs for $150 and do it yourself. The thing is to just really look at it and not hide from it, not let five years go by where you're like I'll do that later and then you find out that for five years you've been drinking something you don't want. Instead, it can be really easy to treat water, and that is to me good news, because 10 years ago, these reverse osmosis systems were way more expensive.
Speaker 1:I remember that my family didn't have one growing up, but I knew a family did and they were of higher socioeconomic status.
Speaker 3:We'll just say yeah, exactly, so, yeah, if you can figure out how to get it installed, they can be really affordable. And even the really cheap ones, though, they will potentially have leaks. So you want to put a drip pan on the really cheap ones. The really cheap ones will work because membrane technology is membrane technology and, although there are levels of membrane technology, even the cheapest membrane in the world is going to massively improve water quality.
Speaker 1:That's good news.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's what I think.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we actually covered the whole fluoride debate on our podcast a couple, about a month or two ago. A city south of us, Calgary in Alberta, 15, 20 years ago, fluoride was voted out Like people didn't want fluoride in the water.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 1:So they took fluoride out, maybe based on that study, maybe based on misinformation, maybe based on many things and then they did see, you know, a steady increase in dental issues, yeah, and, and then fluoride was voted back in. So now, for the water in calgary is fluoridated. Oh, so it's an interesting thing. The doctors and the people that, of course, were for fluoridation. They cited what you said is that you would need to have a lot of fluoride to cause damage to a population base, and then they concluded the help for teeth definitely outweighed any very insignificant, negligible yeah, but anyways, I just thought that was cool that you mentioned that oh yeah, and teeth health is not to be discounted like that.
Speaker 3:There are such direct links to strange things related to teeth health. Alz, alzheimer's has a relation to dental health. They're shocking relations. So I definitely yeah, I definitely am very interested in that story because I actually have been looking for. Thank you for sharing that with me. I've been looking for something exactly like that, an anecdote that's exactly like that that I could study and look into.
Speaker 1:It's very interesting yeah, yep, just google calgary fluoride debate. Yeah, that was a, it was. I was shocked too. I didn't even know what happened. It was like this one of the, that's the biggest city in alberta, just like south of us, and I was like, oh, I didn't know this happened.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's cool, yeah um now one of the things we had been talking by email about and maybe, like before we get to my standard questions, this is an interesting one how water, water access, impacts things like gender equality, like you had mentioned that in an email and I was a little interested if you could elaborate on that.
Speaker 3:I can, yeah, so if you have a country where access to water is a little more scarce I was actually talking to somebody today about this where she's in Africa, she's in Zambia. I was talking to her today and she had. She lives in a fairly populous place, so they have access to water, but not more than 10 kilometers from her they have people who are having to walk quite a ways away from their village to get water, and who do you think is doing that?
Speaker 1:I would say women.
Speaker 3:Women and children, basically yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:And usually, if they're children, it's going to be a female child versus a male child, but not always. So this is a cultural reality. In a lot of the world especially, there is a cross section, a demographic cross section, where in poorer countries they are more patriarchal, which I guess. I don't know why exactly. I guess there's something about strength being related to survival in those situations A little bit, who knows? But it's just a reality. There tends to be a higher patriarchal culture, not that not that I can state how that happens, but that's what happens, right. So then then we've got okay, who's going to go fetch the water? The guys I have to work for making money and bringing in food. So you're fetching the water If you.
Speaker 3:If that's the scenario, how does a woman leave her husband? And abuse rates can be higher in situations where a woman cannot leave. But in these situations where a woman can't leave because if she leaves she can't be supported, then she's got to do her job in the relationship, which is, in that case, getting water, which means she's not getting her own income, and again she can't leave. It's like a vicious circle. She also can't get educated a vicious circle. She also can't get educated. And then children if they're in school. They're fetching water first before going to school, because everybody needs water for the day. So it is a dramatic social impact to have water right next to you and in these cultures you literally could not even start women's rights without access to water. It would be essentially impossible Not completely impossible, but essentially it would be impossible. So that's a very real thing people struggle with, and access to clean access to any water and ideally, clean water dramatically changes entire cultures.
Speaker 1:So, like the idea, the time it takes to get water right. Yeah, it's that much of your day.
Speaker 3:Four hours yeah.
Speaker 1:Four hours On average yeah. So half an eight-hour workday right. Exactly, if you want to think of an eight-hour workday.
Speaker 3:Yep right.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yep, yeah, just yeah, yeah, you get it one of our standard questions that we asked that. Sorry, let me start that again, I got tongue tied. One of the standard questions we ask our guests about is a pet story. Um, what do you have a pet story from your life you could share with us?
Speaker 3:Oh my gosh, I have two dogs and three rats right now, but my pet story would my. I don't know if I have a fun pet story. I have, like I have a pet that was in my life when I was younger. It's. It was really interesting because when I was like 10, I had this dog and his name was Raven and he was just a black lab and they're awesome dogs.
Speaker 1:Black labs are great dogs.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I, yeah, I, he was my friend, like as a 10 year old this I'm not trying to be sad here but I was not like liked, I was probably on the spectrum a little bit and and definitely I had zero friends. But I felt and I know 10 year olds have these weird ideas about things I felt and I this is weird to even say as an almost 50-year-old. At that time, though, I really, truly believed that I could talk to this dog and it could communicate back to me and I understood it and it understood me.
Speaker 1:Aw, that's not silly, that's sweet.
Speaker 3:It is Okay, it's sweet, but it is such a visceral memory for me that obviously the dog wasn't doing that. Yeah, exactly, yeah, exactly, definitely felt like it, yeah, and the memory is of it being real. So that's, that is a very interesting. I've never had that experience with an animal since, but I've also not I haven't been 10 years old since either. Yeah, it's a fun. It's a fun memory to have, because you're not ever going to have that memory again.
Speaker 1:And you have two dogs now. What are they and what's their names?
Speaker 3:A Caton de Touillere, because it turns out I'm allergic to fur.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I have a Caton de Touillere. His name is Kip yeah. And then I have a little Shih Tzu with a little bit of poodle mixed in there, and his name is Pan.
Speaker 1:Ah, sweet.
Speaker 3:Very cute little dogs, and all of whom have hair instead of fur, so they're fine for me.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, we are drowning in fur at our house here with the two burners and a golden retriever and a cat oh yeah, no kidding.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you guys are like if anyone had allergies vacuum every couple days.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, people who have lots of dogs. When you go to their house, like they, they either are cleaning around the clock and there's they. They're obviously very on point for cleaning or it's like our house, where there might be a clump of fur in the corner. Yeah, so that's what. You just can't get rid of. It all because we don't vacuum every three hours.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no doubt. And if it's between that or not having a pet, like, obviously that's an easy choice, so I agree with you. Yeah, and if it's between that or not having a pet, like, obviously that's an easy choice, so I agree with you, yeah, and rats, hey.
Speaker 1:Like we've talked to lots of people who have rats as a pet they I've never had one as a pet, but they apparently make great pets.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, yeah, I've got a. The rats are cause of my middle child, iris. She's 11 and she really wanted them. At 10 years old she was like desperate to have rats. So we made her prove that she would take care of rats by being the only one to take care of the dogs for a month, and she did that. Oh yeah, exactly. So we got her rats and then we got her. We were going to get her a rat, but then we learned that they're not good to have alone. So then we got we were going to do two rats, but then we found this place that was trying to house some rats, and so we ended up getting three rats.
Speaker 3:One of the rats has such an interesting story. It was actually it was going. It was given to a snake as food and the snake started to swallow it and then spat it back out, okay, and then it just refused to eat it. So that rat was traumatized. Yeah, so we have that rat and then that rat's a little scaredy cat. The other two are just like brother and sister, I think, and they're both boys, like brother and sister, I think, and they're just, I know. They're both boys, brother and brother, and and they're both happy that's sweet.
Speaker 3:Yeah, even the rat tasted bad, who knows I know it's such a funny, weird story, right? Yeah?
Speaker 1:their natural selection works in weird ways. Perhaps there's some kind of like genetic mutation that made its fur taste bad to snakes, and then you never know.
Speaker 3:Which would be cool yeah exactly. I love that idea.
Speaker 1:Sitting in. We're at the end of our chat. Thank you for giving up your time. I so appreciate it. A couple of things before we wrap. Can people find your company online? Are you on social media anywhere for people to follow?
Speaker 3:Yeah, we're on a few social media places, but if you look up Pure Water Northwest, you'll find us and my name is such a weird name.
Speaker 1:Cool, I had to ask you how to say it before we started this.
Speaker 3:I know. Thank you, people who look me up usually can find me very easily. So, yeah, we're pretty easy to find and happy to help anyone who needs it.
Speaker 1:Sounds good. We'll make sure there's a link to Pure Water Northwest. Oh, did I get the company right there? I'm sorry you got it. Yeah, we'll make sure there's a link in our show notes to pure order, pure water northwest.
Speaker 3:So you know people who listen to the show and, like I, want to learn more. Just your click away. Yeah, yeah, appreciate it that's awesome.
Speaker 1:I think we're gonna get our water tested, so this was eye-opening for me. I drink our water. I love our well water. My wife does not like the taste of it, so she drinks lots of bottled water, yeah. So I guess for my own health, I better get it tested. So yeah, I'll take a look at those kits. Maybe there's a Canadian analog too, instead of an American one.
Speaker 3:Yeah, maybe that's an interesting question.
Speaker 1:Thanks for chatting and best wishes in the future.
Speaker 3:Thank you.
Speaker 1:That's it for this week's show. Thanks for coming back week after week to listen to the Science Podcast. And a shout out to all the top dogs. That's the top tier of our Patreon community, the Paw Pack. You can sign up in our show notes. All right, Chris, let's hear those names that are part of the top dogs.
Speaker 2:Amelia Fetig Rhi Oda, carol Hainel Fettig Rhi Oda Carol Hainel, jennifer Challen, Linnea Janik, karen Chronister, vicky Otero, christy Walker, sarah Bram, wendy, diane Mason and Luke Helen Chin, elizabeth Bourgeois, marianne McNally, catherine Jordan, Shelley Smith, laura Steffensen, tracy Leinbach, anne Uchida, Heather Burbach, kelly Tracy Halbert, ben Rather, debbie Anderson, Sandy Breimer, mary Rader, bianca Hyde, andrew Lin, brenda Clark, brianne Hawes, peggy McKeel, Polly Burge, kathy Zerker, susan Wagner and Liz Button.
Speaker 1:For science, empathy and cuteness.